Who would you pick for Australia's side for the third test?

David Warner
Chris Lynn
Usman Khawaja
Steve Smith
Adam Voges
Glenn Maxwell
Peter Neville
Faulkner
O'keefe
Starc
Hazelwood

In theory I'd like to use a dead rubber with the pink ball to expose some of our best youngsters to the best test bowling attack in the world. However it's hard to know who to pick to replace under performing players because there's only been two shield rounds played (which is utterly insane and is probably one of the problems with Australian cricket right now). 

There'll be one more shield round played starting on Friday before the third test, and from there you'd hope someone sticks their hands up. Hopefully the message will get sent out to the young guys that if they go out and score a big hundred they might get a baggy green. 

If I had to pick the team right now: 

Burns 
Warner
Khawaja
Smith
Maddinson (in for Voges)
Jake Lehmann (in for Ferguson)
Nevill
Bird (in for Mennie)
Starc
Hazelwood
Lyon

12th man: Mennie 


If Burns, Nevill and Lyon don't perform well, they should go after for the series against Pakistan.

In my view Glenn Maxwell is exactly the opposite of what is needed, he is a quasi all rounder who is not good enough with either bat or ball. He is not capable of digging in against good bowling and survive. 

Chris Lynn is injured as far as I know so is not available for selection.

Nick Maddinson scores runs but is again perhaps not a test match player with his aggressive approach.

I would select
Warner
Burns
Khawaja
Smith
Patterson
Lehmann
Neville
Starc
Hazelwood
Sayers
Lyon

Warner
Bancroft
Patterson
Smith
Lehmann
Hanscomb
Faulkner
Starc
Hazelwood
Lyon
Bird

It's ridiculous that Faulkner hasn't been picked more recently. The bloke's a born winner who never gives up. Just ask Lancashire CCC whom he helped gain promotion to Div 1 of the County Championship. He takes hat-tricks, scores hundreds, finds ways both to take wickets and to stem the flow of runs, he wins matches on his own, he wins matches with the rest of his team. He goes up to Mikey Holding and informs him that he had played cricket for Tassie with Jimmy's father. The bloke is statistically better than all other all-rounder options Australia has tried in the past few years and mentally on another level.

statistically both he and o'keefe have good enough shield records to justify inclusion as bowlers rather than all rounders

I have changed my mind. Handscomb a century on the first day of the latest Shield round must come in. He is in good form with two half centuries followed by a century. I don't think his wicketkeeping is up to being a test keeper but he should get in on his batting alone. Others possibilities for the team, Khawaja 106, Renshaw 108, Voges 16 retired hurt after being hit in the head and has concussion, Burns 4 and Bancroft 2. Ferguson, Head, Lehmann and Patterson have not batted yet.

Handscombe should be given a go. Have to reward hundreds in Shield.

It looks like Voges is going to be out with concussion anyway, poor guy. Looked a nasty blow.

NSW will get a chance to bat today so we'll get to see Maddinson and a few others.

No idea why Lynn is being named here, not playing for QLD at the moment so he's clearly out injured. 

God help us if the typical NSW agenda picks up and Maddinson gets in. 

I'm not sure what they'll do with the second opener position, we've stuffed around Burns the last couple of years and he looks shot at the moment. 

Handscomb in for Voges is the obvious pick, has scored a stack of runs the last two years and is in form. 

I also like the idea the of not picking Lyon and going with Maxwell as the all-rounder and four quicks. 

Bancroft isn't making runs either at the moment....

Now lets see what Patterson can do today. 

Have to pick an actual spinner. This series is over, and Maxwell himself won't be enough against Pakistan or especially in India. He's definitely an option as an all rounder in India though. He just needs to focus on facing more balls rather than scoring runs because even when he does get a quick 40-50 at the moment it isn't overly helpful because the batsmen at the other end has only scored 10-15, and batting at test level is all about partnerships. Warner has had the same problem in the past.

I'd go:
Warner
Renshaw
Khawaja
Smith
Handscomb
Lehman
Neville
Faulkner
Starc
Hazelwood
Lyon

Whoever the spinner will be in the 1st test in India has to play the Pakistan series. Neville stays because you need your best keeper on the sub continent and Faulkner should've played in Hobart, and should be well suited in India.

I've just read Maddinson has an average of 37.

Shocking for a supposed Test player.

First class averages

David Warner: 79.59
Steve Smith: 56.59
Matthew Renshaw: 50.54
Adam Voges: 48.46
Sam  Heazlett** :47.11
Lynn: 45.88
Travis Dean*: 44.83
Jake Lehman*: 44.76
Khawaja: 42.58
Burns: 41.77
Callum Ferguson: 41.43
Ed Cowan: 41.1
Maxwell: 40.56
Handscomb: 40.5
Michael Klinger: 40.32
Shaun Marsh: 39.85

bunch of other players

Maddison: 37

gee...

also I think I'd like to see faulkner as a bowler and when he recovers o'keefe replace lyon

That would make a pretty decent batting and bowling line up

Out of that list (excluding those already in the team) Voges and Marsh are injured, Dean and Heazlett haven't done enough yet, Lynn is injured, Klinger is too old and Burns and Ferguson just got dropped. There was only really 3 options for the selectors to be looking at. One was the coach's kid and the others were from NSW. I'd have gone with Lehman, but Maddison isn't a horrendous selection. People used to say the exact same things about Warner and now he's one of the best players in the world.

Also selectors and coaches don't, and shouldn't pick teams based just on averages. If they should literally anybody could do the job. They're all experts and are paid well because they can see the potential that players have, and also realise why certain averages are more or less impressive than they seem on face value. Their job is so difficult at the moment because of a massive lack of mature talent.

It seems Renshaw has made runs at the right time with Burns and Bancroft not making any runs and Shaun Marsh out injured. So he might well be opening at 20 years old.

I do wonder whether the selectors might be tempted to play Handscomb as the wicket keeper. I feel this would be a mistake because I doubt he is good enough with the gloves.

I would have Kurtis Patterson in ahead of Jake Lehmann.

south africa caught ball tampering looks like faf will miss a match

You just have to bring in bowlers o'keefe and faulkner. They are world class on bowling alone yet also bat well

khawaja warner, smith starc and hazelwood have done enough to keep their place
on the fence with neville

the other players - well as long as they are under 30 and have a shield average over 40 I won't complain. There are plenty of options unlike 5-6 years ago

It probably is worth giving O'Keefe a game as Lyon has been below his best although a pink ball test is probably not going to favour him. Steve Smith needs to bowl more as well especially as we will need spinning options in India.

Jackson Bird, James Faulkner and Chadd Sayers all deserve consideration to replace Mennie in the test team, all are very good bowlers and Faulkner can certainly bat as well. Still I would go with Sayers but would not be unhappy with any of the quartet. Overall though I think that position in the test side should be for James Pattinson when he is fit.

i missed chad sayers
fantastic average!

Apparently SA fast bowler Daniel Worrall is under strong consideration for a call up although I am struggling to understand why he would be considered.
Also O'Keefe has a calf problem and might not be fit enough to be considered for selection.
Sam Whiteman is a darkhorse for the wicket keeping position after a 50 followed by 100 in the Shield game and an average over 34 in first class cricket.

Possible squad:
Warner
Renshaw
Khawaja
Smith
Patterson
Handscomb
Wade
O'Keefe
Starc
Hazlewood
Lyon
Bird
Sayers or Worral.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-south-africa-2016-17/content/story/1067189.html

When was the last time there was three new players in the top 6?

I'd be pretty furious if worral got a call up

O'Keefe isn't good enough to be getting a chance at 31 years old. His shield average flatters because he's bowling against blokes who have consistently shown they have no idea how to play spin. Good first class cricketer but that's all. Has to be Lyon for now unless they think one of the kids are ready.

It not his debut so it is a bit different and he could still play for 5+years.

Jake Weatherald is another player who is starting to put his hand up as a future option, not straight away but worth watching.
Jake Lehmann has failed for the second time for SA so surely is out of the reckoning for this test side. Patterson also failed for NSW but I would still pick him. However both fell to spin something which I have heard both have a weakness against. 

Latest rumours are Renshaw is playing, O'Keefe has been ruled out with injury, Wade will replace Nevill, Handscomb will be in and Maddinson will be the final batman, not Kurtis Patterson.
So Warner, Renshaw, Khawaja, Smith, Handscomb, Maddinson, Wade and then the bowlers. It seems like it will be Starc, Hazlewood, Lyon and who knows.

So the side is
Warner
Renshaw
Khawaja
Smith
Maddinson
Handscomb
Wade
Starc
Hazlewood
Lyon
Sayers or Bird

I am not convinced Maddinson is the right type of player for test cricket but he has been scoring a lot of runs.

Wow.

That's the biggest clean out of test players that I can remember. And Lyon would have been dropped too if O'Keefe hadn't injured himself. The selectors went much further than I thought.

I love the message though- if you don't play with ticker and heart, you'll get cut with no excuses. If you score runs in shield cricket, you get picked. Simples.

Three new batsmen in the batting order is going to be very hard to manage in the short term though. Hold on to your hats.

not sure about maddison

also would have liked to see faulkner in place of one of the bowlers

his first class bowling average is phenomenal

I see Mark Waugh's love affair with Maddinson got him in, so disappointing. 

Has an average of 37 in first class cricket, didn't score any runs in the last shield match and has a terrible temperament for test cricket. 

Kurtis Patterson was the obvious pick. 

yes more favouratism at a time we are already week

the NSW bias is pathetic.

Is it really that hard to pick the best test team and put petty state-attachments to the side?

I don't think I've seen Handscomb, Maddinson or Renshaw bat at Bellerive. Or if they did, they made no runs.

Chad Sayers looked to have a very smooth, rhythmical action and bowled well.

I've seen Wade though. He has played some good innings at Bellerive.

Wade is a former Tasmanian and is despised by the cricket fraternity  here, as is his father , Scott, the former AFL player and CEO of AFL Tas. The only local cricketer in the last 10 years I've heard anything bad about is Matthew Wade, who is considered very arrogant, egotistical and selfish.  The Tasmanian hierarchy were delighted to see him leave the state.

Because Wade is so unpopular, many former players like to point out  his wicketkeeping is not Test standard. All think Nevill is a better keeper by far. To me, I always think pick the best keeper first. 

These days though the difference in averages between keepers can be 30 runs. It is a big enough difference to matter
I liked neville. He was safe behind the stumps and has had two innings where he has shown real guts. I think if you gave him another dozen games he could really be an asset

That list isn't an exhaustive list of shield players with an average over 37. I capped the list at 40 but even then missed players like kurtis patterson who has an average of 42

warners shield average is pretty darn good - I have no problem with attacking players (actually I advocate maxwell as the all rounder number 6)- just nsw players with ordinary averages getting selected...

Also I disagree that averages shouldn't be prime

its is very unusual for shield averages for players that get extended runs to differ from test averages. But the rare cases (michael beven) where that happens you drop those players. There aren't a lot of players that have a crap first class average and a great international average