National second division is kicking off with or without FFA


National second division is kicking off with or without FFA

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krones3
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Even if that happened ie Gold Coast under palmer (no one came) they still won't
aussie scott21
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krones3 - 14 Mar 2017 9:59 PM
south Melbourne or knights are not manufactured but true clubs amongst many others. If you start with clubs like fury with zero support it will fail and bring the whole game down with them

Like Melbourne Victory or Western Sydney Wanderers also?
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south Melbourne or knights are not manufactured but true clubs amongst many others. If you start with clubs like fury with zero support it will fail and bring the whole game down with them
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krones3 - 14 Mar 2017 9:46 PM
But that's not how they started it maybe their downfall.

These days I think it is irrelevant and I dont think you should limit what a club is or how it is created/founded/formed.

If a billionare wanted to build a 3000 seat/person boutique stadium and club in Townsville and pump millions into it, of course we are talking that said team could reach the A-League, what is the problem? 

I dont see one. 


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8 Years Ago by scott21
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krones3 - 14 Mar 2017 9:21 PM
A club is formed. By like minded people so they can enjoy an activity for the sake of enjoyment. A manufactured club is formed by people who want to form a monopoly to provide a service for a fee in order to create a facade that that can achieve a promising outcome for youth players. Whilst their main focus is separating prospective parents of their hard earned coin. May I add to the great detriment of the activity. I don't think the later is how clubs like ManU or Liverpool started , or any others that I know of but then again they are clubs not pathways and their teams play to win not to develop. But I could be wrong.

So basically, given the financial implication of creating a club currently, then they will inevitably all be "manufactured". Unless of course, we can all time travel backwards and meet a time when you could build a club from the ground up. 

Do you think that all A-league clubs are aimed at separating parents from money? Have you ever looked into the amount of money investors are losing by having A-league teams? Basically at this point, anyone investing in football outside of Melbourne Victory are doing so because they love the game. This whole "Manufactures" Vs not bullshit is from people who are nostalgic about the past or who don't like the realistic factors of creating as professional football entity in current financial climate.
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But that's not how they started it maybe their downfall.
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No problem selling them to rich investors however?
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A club is formed. By like minded people so they can enjoy an activity for the sake of enjoyment. A manufactured club is formed by people who want to form a monopoly to provide a service for a fee in order to create a facade that that can achieve a promising outcome for youth players. Whilst their main focus is separating prospective parents of their hard earned coin. May I add to the great detriment of the activity.
I don't think the later is how clubs like ManU or Liverpool started , or any others that I know of but then again they are clubs not pathways and their teams play to win not to develop. But I could be wrong.
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krones3 - 14 Mar 2017 6:17 PM
Some NPL Clubs are as manufactured as the A league franchises. Personally I don't want the Northern Fury representing the games future. No one goes to their games now so I doubt they have the support of this region

Can you please give your criteria for what a "non-manufactured" club looks like. I'm hoping you realise that every club in the world was new at some point. 
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scott21 - 14 Mar 2017 7:57 PM
Racists calling others racists?

Not sure if a league or nsl. Confusing isnt it?


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Racists calling others racists?
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Rimbaud - 14 Mar 2017 7:26 PM
Its always the worst case, most implausible, improbable, doomsday scenario that is used to counter a DiV2. 

So funny.

The question is why? Why would anyone want to counter the development of our game in this country and having such a rich smorgasbord of choice?
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Its always the worst case, most implausible, improbable, doomsday scenario that is used to counter a DiV2. 

So funny.
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krones3 - 14 Mar 2017 6:17 PM
Some NPL Clubs are as manufactured as the A league franchises. Personally I don't want the Northern Fury representing the games future. No one goes to their games now so I doubt they have the support of this region

Why would Northern Fury represent the future of the game.

All we are talking about is 125 NPL clubs getting together to form an association. They represent Football together and are important stakeholders. 
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krones3 - 14 Mar 2017 6:17 PM
Some NPL Clubs are as manufactured as the A league franchises. Personally I don't want the Northern Fury representing the games future. No one goes to their games now so I doubt they have the support of this region

You are correct. Townsville probably wont get a team. Cairns is more likely imo
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Some NPL Clubs are as manufactured as the A league franchises. Personally I don't want the Northern Fury representing the games future. No one goes to their games now so I doubt they have the support of this region
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That all looks like a lot of corruption to me. 
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nomates - 14 Mar 2017 3:25 PM
How are these amateur clubs going to fund the cost of traveling for this magical 2nd divison A-League? Hike up Jr playing fees or something like that>?.

One could guess that if a club could get an extra 1000 people to games at $10 that is $10 000 every home game extra. Of course clubs may charge more and get even more fans. As well as sponsors. 

USL PRESIDENT EDWARDS: DIVISION II SANCTION ‘VALIDATION’

The USL feels its achievement of second-division status in the U.S. Soccer pyramid is validation of hard work, but president Jake Edwards says his league is focused on its own growth, rather than on the NASL’s.

The USL had been the third division, below MLS and the NASL. But with the recent uncertainty surrounding the NASL, the USL made its bid to supplant that league as the USA’s second division.

U.S. Soccer decided to grant co-Division II status to both the USL and NASL, and though such a move may look disappointing for the USL, Edwards told Goal he and the league owners feel it’s "validation."

“It’s something we’ve been working on for a good two years,” Edwards said. “It was a big component to a strategic larger-term plan. We’ve held back on a couple of initiatives, specifically around broadcasting, commercial and strategic partnerships domestically and internationally until we had the Division II sanctioning, because we felt that was going to give us a platform to launch some of those initiatives in a better way or a more successful way than at a third division level.

Galaxy have 'a chance' to sign Zlatan

“It’s validation of the investment and hard work of the club owners over the last number of years.”

A second-division status in the USA remains different than it does in many leagues worldwide because of the absence of promotion and relegation. That means teams in the NASL and USL are no closer to MLS than they were last season, regardless of what their division designation is. However, Edwards disputed the idea that the designation was just a name

“When you’re going into media rights space or national commercial partnerships, or even strategic partnerships with other leagues and clubs around the world, when you’re talking about attracting quality players and coaches, the perception of differentiation between a third and second division, even if it's not a merit-based structure or pro-rel, it’s still there,” Edwards said.

“We’ve spent a lot of time looking at it and researching it with outside agencies and working with our clubs. It has a real tangible benefit in terms of franchise value, the ability to monetize the different revenue levels, generate income through sponsorship, ticket sales, attendance and all that. All those things, it does have an effect on the ability to continue to make investment, from an ownership point of view, into infrastructure.”



As for the situation with the NASL, Edwards says he isn’t concentrating on how they do things and is instead worrying about his own league.

“We’ve focused on trying to deliver professional soccer in the most excitable, sustainable and honest way we can,” Edwards said. “That’s all we can do. We’ve worked hard to meet all these standards. There’s still a couple of things we need to work on and we’re going to be focused on that over the next 12 months and we’ll be working with the federation. But the rest of that stuff is out of our hands, so we’re just focused on what we’re doing.”

http://www.goal.com/en-au/news/4031/north-america/2017/03/10/33483242/usl-president-edwards-division-ii-sanction-validation 

The meaning of divisions themselves, in the absence of promotion-relegation may, at first, seem rather pointless. But, there are clear financial considerations to being in higher divisions. In a conversation with Brian Straus of Sports Illustrated, Edwards explained the importance of D-II status,


“You’re talking about perception and value for the clubs and the owners, an impact on franchise values, an impact on revenue streams, an impact on commercial activity and media activity—media rights, sponsorship value in the marketplace and marketing perception of second division or third. Those are real tangible benefits for teams and their validation of the fact that the team is making that investment and operating at that level.”

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/features/provisional-division-ii-status-best-possible-scenario-nasl-usl 

Kids' sports fees


Are your child's registration fees being used to subsidise older, professional players?

Sports fees a rip off?


Sport is a great way to get kids and families out into the fresh air, but it's not cheap, with registration fees as high as $400 for soccer teams. Parents have little choice but to cough up, but many are wondering exactly what they're getting for their money.

Coaching is generally done by unqualified volunteers who may have only a passing acquaintance with the game. Fields can also be in poor shape, and the quality of officiating can be questionable.

So where does the money go?

With 600,000 youth soccer players across the country all paying substantial fees, there appears to be a lot of development money on hand. But instead of progressing through a system that's meant to turn Australia into a world-class contender, many young footballers end up bailing out in their early teens.

In at least some cases, youth registration fees are apparently being siphoned off to bankroll elite regional teams, whose players may have a shot at the A-League or a national team. Yet there's little evidence that any of these teams or players are giving anything back to the youth teams that partly finance them, such as regular training or coaching sessions.

Former Socceroos midfielder and now Chief Soccer Analyst for SBS, Craig Foster, put a fine point on the issue in a blog post two years ago: "In some areas of the country, kids are paying registration fees of up to $400, which is ridiculous for a game that should always be available to all. This simply has to stop. It's counter-productive to football's progress." And he says it gets worse when it comes to selective youth teams, where fees can exceed $2000.

"The main reason for the [premier youth] fees is that premier and state league clubs are paying their first-team players hundreds of dollars a week and passing the cost on to the parents of their youth teams … The disgraceful gouging of parents must come to an end," Foster wrote.

He also pointed out that a "national study into the football economy is required to track where the registration fees go", and called on Football Federation Australia (FFA) to initiate such a project. So far though, that hasn't happened.

What is the Football Federation of Australia (FFA)?

Founded in 2004, FFA says in its mission statement that it has a "long-term vision is to establish Australia as a truly world-class football nation". In addition to helping build A-League and national teams, the association is accountable to the "football community".

According to its constitution, it's charged with governing state soccer bodies and leagues, and "encouraging football games at all levels". It appears to be a well-resourced organisation – its corporate partners include Qantas, Hyundai, Nike, Westfield, NAB and Optus.

While Foster didn't respond to our request for comment, FFA freely admitted "junior registrations" are a source of revenue for elite regional teams across Australia, most of which lack other reliable sources of revenue. "It's an issue we're trying to find a way to fix, but there's no overnight fix. It's a complicated beast," says FFR Public Relations Manager Mark Jensen.

In one example of the FFA's efforts to impose a national approach to youth clubs, it recently introduced an Australia-wide registration system. In the case of NSW, Jensen says FFA gets about $17 of each registration, while Football NSW gets about $30, a breakdown that's similar from state to state.

Of the 1.7 million youth players in the country (including schools and futsal), about 600,000 register with FFA via their respective clubs. The remainder of the money is then sent back to the clubs and is out of FFA's hands. "The new online system is purely an administrative tool so local clubs don't have to deal with the time-consuming task of processing hundreds of registrations," Jensen says.

Declining soccer skills

However, when it comes to financial management within clubs, centralised control has its limits. After FFA takes its cut of registration fees, it doesn't require transparency about where the rest of the money goes. Jensen acknowledges this is a problem. "Not all clubs disclose their costs online or in regular reports, and this is where you start seeing clubs gouging their players with fees as high as $400 or $500," he says. "It's definitely a concern for us. We want to make sure kids can get to the elite level without having to pay through the nose."

One way FFA is trying to cut down on gouging is by helping regional teams find ways to raise revenue other than through junior registrations, Jensen says. Another is by preventing regional teams from overpaying their players. To that end, FFA has proposed a salary cap on "home-grown" players – those who've come up through the junior clubs. However, it's still only a proposal at this stage. Jensen argues that FFA took steps in 2009 to arrest a noticeable decline in the skill levels of players aged 6-12, chiefly by appointing a national program technical director and offering free coaching clinics for parent coaches.

FFA expects the initiatives to pay off over the long term, but Jensen couldn't say when that might happen.

The US experience of soccer fees

It's a situation that will sound familiar to parents in the US, another country where kids play plenty of soccer, but which is a long way from World Cup glory. At his website Soccer Mom Manual, long-time US youth coach and blogger Mike Slatton says fees in the US have been on the increase since the late 1990s or so, when soccer clubs began paying coaches, hiring technical directors and requiring kids to buy jerseys for practice as well as for games, along with various other items of equipment.

Despite soccer being one of the biggest youth sports in the US, skill levels have remained stagnant - and Slatton thinks he knows why. "The greed that has permeated our country's youth soccer programs is holding up the development of our players by requiring every person who wants to play to pay outrageous fees that get more and more expensive as the players get older," he explains.

"If you leave out the horrible training and overwhelming payrolls, all that's left is four hours a week of toe taps on the ball, dribbling through cones, shooting on empty nets and a game on Saturday. At this pace, it would mean that our players would be in their 40s and 50s when they finally have the knowledge and experience to compete against European and South American teams for the World Cup trophy."

Closed books

Whether or not it's fair for community youth programs to help pay for the development of elite teams, it seems reasonable to expect a certain degree of transparency about where the registration money goes. CHOICE has heard from a number of consumers that insurance costs are sometimes cited as a reason for high fees, but how are parents to know whether this is the case if they can't see how much the association is paying in premiums?

According to the Corporations Act, any club or business qualifies as a "reporting entity" and must produce financial reports that meet certain standards if it's "reasonable to expect the existence of users who rely on the entity's general purpose financial report for information that will be useful to them for making and evaluating decisions about the allocation of resources."

In another instance, the regulator puts it more simply, saying reporting is required "if there are substantial sums of money involved". ASIC spokesperson Daniel Wright told us some soccer associations may be exempt from the act and instead be defined as incorporated associations. In this case, reporting requirements are determined by state agencies, are less stringent, and vary from state to state – but such associations may still have to lodge an annual financial statement.

In NSW, most soccer clubs are incorporated, says Laura Hofman, of the NSW Office of Communities. Under rules overseen by NSW Fair Trading, incorporated clubs must hold annual general meetings and release audited financial reports if annual revenue exceeds $250,000 or assets are over $500,000. (Clubs with less income and fewer assets need only submit a summary of their financial affairs to the AGM.) But there's no requirement that such reports be made publicly available outside the AGM, such as on the club's website.

Insider's view: The beautiful game turns ugly

In the youth-soccer-mad suburbs of greater Sydney, one CHOICE staffer and veteran soccer parent who wished to remain nameless has seen the results of the one-way support system play out firsthand.

Despite a steady rise in registration fees as his soccer-playing son grew older (he's now in his seventh year with a large suburban club), players continue to be coached by parents with varying degrees of soccer know-how, and are often officiated by young adults only slightly older than the players. Because of their obvious inexperience, these refs often come under withering attack from adult coaches when making a questionable call or, more likely, failing to make any call.

For this parent, the "beautiful game" has turned pretty ugly at times, especially when rougher teams have overstepped the boundaries of acceptable pushing, shoving, and sledging – and gotten away with it. With about 1000 players, this club is run by a delegate from the larger regional association with which it (and 16 others) is affiliated. This year, the cost was a comparatively modest $265 per player for the under-18s, and the online payment went to FFA. The club offers coaching clinics run by qualified personnel, but at an extra cost. It doesn't provide a breakdown of its finances to parents.

Insider's view: Football Federation of Australia (FFA) lack of transparency

One youth soccer club president in Sydney, who agreed to talk to CHOICE anonymously, believes FFA's efforts to centralise the administration of youth soccer aren't playing out well on the ground. He also says FFA added a three per cent charge when it introduced its mandatory national registration system and puts "pressure" on clubs to adhere to its latest initiatives. "From our point of view, we have to do what we're told," he says.

While this club president admits there's no transparency around the allocation of club fees or what FFA does with its cut of those fees, for him the bigger issue is lack of parental support. "We can't even get volunteers to help out at the barbecue, let alone help out with fundraising. It's the same 10 or 15 people who volunteer every season. Ninety per cent of the parents don't have any involvement at all in the club, and they seem to be the ones who do all the complaining about fees. People just have no idea what goes into it." The president is less forthcoming when asked if part of the rego fee was ending up in the coffers of affiliated regional associations. "I don't know anything about that," he says, although he is listed as the regional club's delegate on the youth club's website.

NSW Premier's Soccer Task Force

A recent report by the NSW Premier's Soccer Task Force included a breakdown of the big issues at one major body – the Illawarra Junior Soccer Association (now part of Football South Coast), which has 6700 players aged from 6 to 18.

  • High cost of registration for families.
  • Junior teams should have the best coaches instead of non-accredited volunteers.
  • Inappropriate and unqualified referees.
  • Lack of administrative and accounting skills at the club level.
  • Too many junior players burning out and leaving the sport at around age 14.
  • Poor technical skills, even in the top grades.
  • Too many factions and too much friction among organisations and clubs.

CHOICE verdict

In the end, the important question should be is your child's club coming clean on where its money is going? If it has substantial numbers and hefty fees, we think it should – especially if it's clear that quality coaching and officiating aren't part of the deal.

https://www.choice.com.au/babies-and-kids/education-and-childcare/education/articles/kids-sports-fees


Edited
8 Years Ago by scott21
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krones3 - 14 Mar 2017 5:53 PM
If a club has a history of total failure I don't want their opinion of the future of the game

What club are you talking about? 

I haven't seen a club come here with an opinion, just 125 clubs forming an association which is their right. 
Edited
8 Years Ago by mouflonrouge
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If a club has a history of total failure I don't want their opinion of the future of the game
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lollywood - 14 Mar 2017 5:16 PM
mouflonrouge - 14 Mar 2017 5:13 PM

Some of your best friends are effniks!!!  Do you tell each other that on the Sea Shepherd trying to save the plankton!!!  

You're EFFNIK too. You are just not bright enough to realize it. 

You probably also prefer eating Souvlaki as well. 
Edited
8 Years Ago by mouflonrouge
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mouflonrouge - 14 Mar 2017 5:13 PM
lollywood - 14 Mar 2017 5:06 PM

I stand corrected.

An Effnik Enclave Fascist League Vs the Socialist FFA A League.

Rightio...

Some of your best friends are effniks!!!  Do you tell each other that on the Sea Shepherd trying to save the plankton!!!  
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krones3 - 14 Mar 2017 5:05 PM
I'm all for a div 2 promotion and relegation I just won't listen to clubs that have 0 support, 0 funds and 0 results. If a club is successful and supported and funded then they have a right to have a say in the future if football. If not then they need to be gone.

If the carrots and rewards are there, I think the Tier 2 will do very well. 
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lollywood - 14 Mar 2017 5:06 PM
mouflonrouge - 14 Mar 2017 4:58 PM

It's Effnik Enclave League.  Get it right.  

You know it's all true, expunge that social justice warrior thinking that has been indoctrinated & brainwashed into you & embrace what you what to think, feel & say.  It's called Freedom Of Thought.  



I stand corrected.

An Effnik Enclave Fascist League Vs the Socialist FFA A League.

Rightio...
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mouflonrouge - 14 Mar 2017 4:58 PM
lollywood - 14 Mar 2017 4:53 PM

You mean responded by not dignifying your silly post about Effniks and Effnik encalves. 

It's Effnik Enclave League.  Get it right.  

You know it's all true, expunge that social justice warrior thinking that has been indoctrinated & brainwashed into you & embrace what you what to think, feel & say.  It's called Freedom Of Thought.  



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I'm all for a div 2 promotion and relegation I just won't listen to clubs that have 0 support, 0 funds and 0 results. If a club is successful and supported and funded then they have a right to have a say in the future if football. If not then they need to be gone.
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nomates - 14 Mar 2017 4:51 PM
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mouflonrouge - 14 Mar 2017 4:45 PM

$10 Mil per season? Fk off give me some of them drugs your on. $10mil for amateur football a season fken lol not even that over 100 years. 

Then what do you propose the rights would be worth if they attract 4 to 5k per game? It's got to be worth something because corporations will be able to market their products to a segment of the population. 
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lollywood - 14 Mar 2017 4:53 PM
mouflonrouge - 14 Mar 2017 4:46 PM

But you just responded with your feelings on the matter & therefore your position in regards to it. 

Silly boy.  



You mean responded by not dignifying your silly post about Effniks and Effnik encalves. 
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mouflonrouge - 14 Mar 2017 4:46 PM
lollywood - 14 Mar 2017 4:38 PM

Oh that is just so bitter. Not even worthy to be dignified with a response. 

But you just responded with your feelings on the matter & therefore your position in regards to it. 

Silly boy.  



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mouflonrouge - 14 Mar 2017 4:45 PM
crimsoncrusoe - 14 Mar 2017 4:34 PM

Completely agree. The FFA Cup is a very valid precedence here and that competition has been a resounding success because NPL teams were playing A League teams. They were quite competitive against those A League teams to, and caused a few upsets which was really good to see. 

There is no reason at all why a Tier 2 can't average between 4 to 5k each game. And if that is the case, a TV Deal shouldn't be far behind. Obviosly it won't be $60 million per season, but $10 million per season isn't a far stretch of the imagination either, especially if the clubs have a promotion carrot to aim for. That would result in them investing in their teams, and the competition would be quite lively. 

$10 Mil per season? Fk off give me some of them drugs your on. $10mil for amateur football a season fken lol not even that over 100 years. 


Wellington Phoenix FC

Edited
8 Years Ago by nomates
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