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Benjamin
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xBenjamin, Why don't you try actually reading what I write. I'm supportive of pro/rel. I'm just not supportive of the sweatshop put forward by the self interested no talent hacks of the AAFC. A second division must be fully professional from day 1, otherwise it's pointless. The AAFC is not about improving football, they're in it only for themselves. I read it - you appear to fail to see the overall benefits to the game provided by giving clubs at a lower level an incentive to improve. All those non-league sides were semi-professional at the time - only becoming professional and improving facilities due to the opportunity provided to them. You keep talking about sweatshops and self-interest, I don't get either comment. It's opportunity where it hasn't previously existed, and it's a love of football rather than self interest. Self interest is a small group saying "let's do this for us and no one else", what the AAFC have said is "let's do this and let an independent body decide who should be in it". Which is exactly what the clubs and some players are doing. How many fans do you know saying: "Wow, if South and the two Croatia's are back, we're all gonna pack out the grounds. THIS is what we want". Or sponsors saying "Wow, with South and the two Croatia's back, that's a huge market we can target for our wares" None of the clubs or the players are in it to grow the game, they're in in it because thy sense there's dollars in it for them personally. I know plenty of fans - the vast majority infact - plus sponsors, media, etc., who are BEGGING for more teams, increased competition/diversity, something different in a game which is stagnating badly... More teams and increased competition is exactly what this is offering and THIS is what they want. The clubs and players can only possibly make dollars if the game grows - one causes the other. Unless you think that all of this is about a one year deal... In which case why panic as the clubs themselves have said they don't want promotion/relegation on the table for 5 years... What are you so scared of? What sponsors and media that are begging?????? Name them or you lie! Is it your contention that the sponsors and media DON'T want more teams, increased competition/diversity? That they would prefer a competition with decreasing interest and continued stagnation..? What a strange world you live in. You've been asked several times to name said sponsors. Here's your chance to take centre stage and shine. Over to you. WTF. The situation would be totally different and the economic repercussions would be adversely affected. Thats his angle. He knows certain things are still being kept under wraps, so he'll call Benjamin and Arthur out on details that I'm assuming can't be released yet or are still only handshake agreements. All in due course Enzo. Semi-correct with regard to individuals - but ultimately it's all the sponsors - it would be easy to name names - just list every sponsor involved in the game... I'm sure Enzo will argue that they are all happy with the current market, and there's no reason any of them would want greater exposure - and I'm sure he'll argue that greater exposure doesn't come from increased interest in the game - and that promotion/relegation doesn't do anything to produce more interest - more excitement, more stories for the media, more variety, bigger footprint, etc.
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paulc
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And easily just as much negative exposure is possible, dragging down the A-League in the mix, sucking up funds, damaging mainstream perception etc, etc.....................what does one think that will do?
In a resort somewhere
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TheSelectFew
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Group: Forum Members
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+xAnd easily just as much negative exposure, dragging down the A-League, mainstream perception etc, etc.....................what does one think that will do? The game cops negativity all the time. Don't be a snowflake and cry.
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paulc
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+xAnd easily just as much negative exposure, dragging down the A-League, mainstream perception etc, etc.....................what does one think that will do? The game cops negativity all the time. Don't be a snowflake and cry. I'm sure matches like Sydney Croatia vs Bonnyrig White Eagles or SM Hellas vs Preston Macedonia will fix it!
In a resort somewhere
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Benjamin
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 23K,
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+x+x+xAnd easily just as much negative exposure, dragging down the A-League, mainstream perception etc, etc.....................what does one think that will do? The game cops negativity all the time. Don't be a snowflake and cry. I'm sure matches like Sydney Croatia vs Bonnyrig White Eagles or SM Hellas vs Preston Macedonia will fix it! Living in the past... You're far more obsessed with ethnic identities than the clubs themselves.
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BA81
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.9K,
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+x+xAnd easily just as much negative exposure, dragging down the A-League, mainstream perception etc, etc.....................what does one think that will do? The game cops negativity all the time. Don't be a snowflake and cry. This. If there's one thing I've realised over the HAL's existence to date, it's that it will NEVER be good enough for the 'mainstream Australia' that Gallop/Lowy and ol' mate PaulC/Enzo are so hellbent on sucking up to...because it's still and will always just be 'sokkah' to them:exclamation: If the HAL were to be completely whitewashed tomorrow - not a single non-'skip' player, coach, fan, administrator etc...guess what, 3AW/Herald Sun/Ch7's views of the game wouldn't improve one jot.
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bohemia
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.3K,
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+x+x+xAnd easily just as much negative exposure, dragging down the A-League, mainstream perception etc, etc.....................what does one think that will do? The game cops negativity all the time. Don't be a snowflake and cry. I'm sure matches like Sydney Croatia vs Bonnyrig White Eagles or SM Hellas vs Preston Macedonia will fix it! You're a pasty white boy, deal with it.
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TheSelectFew
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 30K,
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+x+x+xAnd easily just as much negative exposure, dragging down the A-League, mainstream perception etc, etc.....................what does one think that will do? The game cops negativity all the time. Don't be a snowflake and cry. This. If there's one thing I've realised over the HAL's existence to date, it's that it will NEVER be good enough for the 'mainstream Australia' that Gallop/Lowy and ol' mate PaulC/Enzo are so hellbent on sucking up to...because it's still and will always just be 'sokkah' to them:exclamation: If the HAL were to be completely whitewashed tomorrow - not a single non-'skip' player, coach, fan, administrator etc...guess what, 3AW/Herald Sun/Ch7's views of the game wouldn't improve one jot. Even when people call it soccer the collective outrage is embarrassing.
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paulc
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
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+x+x+x+xAnd easily just as much negative exposure, dragging down the A-League, mainstream perception etc, etc.....................what does one think that will do? The game cops negativity all the time. Don't be a snowflake and cry. I'm sure matches like Sydney Croatia vs Bonnyrig White Eagles or SM Hellas vs Preston Macedonia will fix it! Living in the past... You're far more obsessed with ethnic identities than the clubs themselves. Last I heard the public was forbidden to attend a Hellas vs Macedonia match. A-League aspirants sure lol.
In a resort somewhere
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TheSelectFew
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 30K,
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+x+x+x+x+xAnd easily just as much negative exposure, dragging down the A-League, mainstream perception etc, etc.....................what does one think that will do? The game cops negativity all the time. Don't be a snowflake and cry. I'm sure matches like Sydney Croatia vs Bonnyrig White Eagles or SM Hellas vs Preston Macedonia will fix it! Living in the past... You're far more obsessed with ethnic identities than the clubs themselves. Last I heard the public was forbidden to attend a Hellas vs Macedonia match. A-League aspirants sure lol. There's been a few lockouts across the a league recently.
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paulc
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+xAnd easily just as much negative exposure, dragging down the A-League, mainstream perception etc, etc.....................what does one think that will do? The game cops negativity all the time. Don't be a snowflake and cry. I'm sure matches like Sydney Croatia vs Bonnyrig White Eagles or SM Hellas vs Preston Macedonia will fix it! Living in the past... You're far more obsessed with ethnic identities than the clubs themselves. Last I heard the public was forbidden to attend a Hellas vs Macedonia match. A-League aspirants sure lol. There's been a few lockouts across the a league recently. Really? Tell us more of this unreleased news.
In a resort somewhere
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paulc
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Group: Forum Members
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It seems even the article in the SM Hellas blog places doubts on the AAFC propaganda...... AAFC also claim that they're confident about a broadcast deal, but some of the specifics they've released about how this will run has me very sceptical, especially because it seems that the form of cartel discipline that is being asked of potential second tier participants is dependent on a level of co-operative self-discipline that is quite alien to Australian soccer outside the A-League.
In a resort somewhere
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Benjamin
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 23K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAnd easily just as much negative exposure, dragging down the A-League, mainstream perception etc, etc.....................what does one think that will do? The game cops negativity all the time. Don't be a snowflake and cry. I'm sure matches like Sydney Croatia vs Bonnyrig White Eagles or SM Hellas vs Preston Macedonia will fix it! Living in the past... You're far more obsessed with ethnic identities than the clubs themselves. Last I heard the public was forbidden to attend a Hellas vs Macedonia match. A-League aspirants sure lol. There's been a few lockouts across the a league recently. Really? Tell us more of this unreleased news. Last year's Sydney vs WSW NPL game was played behind closed doors in order to avoid crowd trouble. Melbourne Victory were ordered to play their home game against South Melbourne behind closed doors after multiple Victory fans were found guilty of causing trouble at Lakeside. And for the record, the last time South played Preston, it wasn't behind closed doors - it was members only, and the game passed without incident despite having supporters of both clubs in attendance (and this was at South's suggestion - the kind of pro-active move that you would say traditional clubs would never make).
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Redcarded
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It should be said that the hal has made massive inroads into 'the mainstream'. As much as i think ffa is run by non football 2 faced car sslesman cretins,credit where credit is due that if you had lived through the nsl years it would have been hard to imagine some of the crowds we get now. They are though so cautious that the next big step feels like it will never happen
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aussie scott21
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Group: Forum Members
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grazorblade
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Group: Forum Members
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+xIt should be said that the hal has made massive inroads into 'the mainstream'. As much as i think ffa is run by non football 2 faced car sslesman cretins,credit where credit is due that if you had lived through the nsl years it would have been hard to imagine some of the crowds we get now. They are though so cautious that the next big step feels like it will never happen The a league has been fantastic and the ttc appears to have made improvements 2nd division and academies down to u6 as well as more full time youth coaches are needed
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TheSelectFew
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Would be massive to see some of these clubs strut their stuff.
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bluebird
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K,
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+xIt should be said that the hal has made massive inroads into 'the mainstream'. As much as i think ffa is run by non football 2 faced car sslesman cretins,credit where credit is due that if you had lived through the nsl years it would have been hard to imagine some of the crowds we get now. They are though so cautious that the next big step feels like it will never happen Ah yes, crowds. The measure of everything Forget VAR, concessions, the all stars, a top 6 in a 10 team comp, inability to expand, lack of player positions, failure at the national level in age groups we have never failed at before, FTA ratings that are consistently lower than payTV ratings, ads during play, complete lack of FFA led advertising, rigged competitions, teams taking it in turns in winning titles, buying the richest club a player and scrapping funding for futsal in with the same pool of funds... The important thing is that crowds today are bigger than what they used to be We could have boosted crowds by simply using all the funds we had, buying an AFL / NRL team and calling it football The reform was about improving the quality and integrity of the game. Everything has gone backwards just for crowds which aren't much different to when the A League was little more than the NSL with a coat of paint (which was the consolidated effort of existing football fans). In other words we have lost everything for support we already had, plus a few casuals we won with world cup qualification and derbies
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Footyball
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Group: Forum Members
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Look, in reality it is going backward to choose ethnic based clubs of the NSL to be in any 2nd division. It's too toxic. forget it and move forward people.
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bigpoppa
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@soccerfoo
Because the A-League is going gangbusters.
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bluebird
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Group: Forum Members
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+xLook, in reality it is going backward to choose ethnic based clubs of the NSL to be in any 2nd division. It's too toxic. forget it and move forward people. The youth league isn't popular yet it doesn't impact on the A League's attendances and ratings. Neither does the W League, or NPL, or state feds, or any other lower league I don't get where this notion that a second division is going to send the A League backwards comes from "You going to the derby this weekend?" "Nah. South Melbourne exist as a team" In fact the ethnic based NSL clubs already play at the highest level outside of the A League and there hasn't been any detrimental impact The fact is these clubs will either sit in a second division which nobody will watch / care about. Or they will fight to a top tier based on investment and good football in which case they'll do no worse than 6,000 odd on a Saturday night in front of a national FTA audience of 34k The A League as it stands is already toxic
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RBBAnonymous
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Group: Forum Members
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+xLook, in reality it is going backward to choose ethnic based clubs of the NSL to be in any 2nd division. It's too toxic. forget it and move forward people. My concern isn't which clubs are in more so that the mechanism is in place and the structure to have pro/rel. If what you suggest is too toxic then other clubs who aren't toxic will just take their place. This will only have a positive effect in a number of ways. 1. Firstly if a club isn't performing on the field or outside the field they will quickly know it and they will need to change and adapt. 2. If things are really that bad as you suggest then it should be quite easy for new clubs to come in and fill that void.
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The Fans
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+x+xLook, in reality it is going backward to choose ethnic based clubs of the NSL to be in any 2nd division. It's too toxic. forget it and move forward people. My concern isn't which clubs are in more so that the mechanism is in place and the structure to have pro/rel. If what you suggest is too toxic then other clubs who aren't toxic will just take their place. This will only have a positive effect in a number of ways. 1. Firstly if a club isn't performing on the field or outside the field they will quickly know it and they will need to change and adapt. 2. If things are really that bad as you suggest then it should be quite easy for new clubs to come in and fill that void. That should be the case but AAFC have been pretty clear the clubs in this league will be selected by bids not performance.
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TheSelectFew
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 30K,
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+x+xIt should be said that the hal has made massive inroads into 'the mainstream'. As much as i think ffa is run by non football 2 faced car sslesman cretins,credit where credit is due that if you had lived through the nsl years it would have been hard to imagine some of the crowds we get now. They are though so cautious that the next big step feels like it will never happen Ah yes, crowds. The measure of everything Forget VAR, concessions, the all stars, a top 6 in a 10 team comp, inability to expand, lack of player positions, failure at the national level in age groups we have never failed at before, FTA ratings that are consistently lower than payTV ratings, ads during play, complete lack of FFA led advertising, rigged competitions, teams taking it in turns in winning titles, buying the richest club a player and scrapping funding for futsal in with the same pool of funds... The important thing is that crowds today are bigger than what they used to be We could have boosted crowds by simply using all the funds we had, buying an AFL / NRL team and calling it football The reform was about improving the quality and integrity of the game. Everything has gone backwards just for crowds which aren't much different to when the A League was little more than the NSL with a coat of paint (which was the consolidated effort of existing football fans). In other words we have lost everything for support we already had, plus a few casuals we won with world cup qualification and derbies 100% this although I wouldnt say crowds are increasing.
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Benjamin
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Group: Moderators
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+x+x[quote]It should be said that the hal has made massive inroads into 'the mainstream'. As much as i think ffa is run by non football 2 faced car sslesman cretins,credit where credit is due that if you had lived through the nsl years it would have been hard to imagine some of the crowds we get now. They are though so cautious that the next big step feels like it will never happen Ah yes, crowds. The measure of everything I've said for years - the game will be healthier all round with 20 teams averaging 5k than with 10 teams averaging 10k. The current model doesn't allow for that - a reduced costs model (such as the Championship) would allow for 5k crowds to be profitable, which would open the game right up - and give the bigger A-League sides a chance to become the genuinely 'big' clubs of Australia (every league needs the big and the small).
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aussie scott21
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As the FFA governance dispute moves into its final phase – one that will involve the reshaping of the professional game – increasing opportunities for young players has to be a priority, especially as it may contradict the short-term interests of professional clubs. For example, the excellence and professionalism of Sydney FC deserves enormous praise, but their all-conquering squad was the second-oldest of any national league champions in Australian history, reflective of an upward trend in the average ages of A-League players. This is not fertile ground for another golden generation.
Australian football needs more professional teams providing more opportunities, and the rise of Dimi Petratos is testament as to why. He benefited from an early start at one club, saw his development accelerated at another, and chanced upon a prosperous home at a third, following an unsuccessful stint overseas. The net result is not only a standout performer for Newcastle and a potential Socceroo, but also a case study for the future success of the A-League.
Success of Dimitri Petratos a case study for future success of A-League | Football | The Guardian
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aussie scott21
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Group: Forum Members
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+xAs the FFA governance dispute moves into its final phase – one that will involve the reshaping of the professional game – increasing opportunities for young players has to be a priority, especially as it may contradict the short-term interests of professional clubs. For example, the excellence and professionalism of Sydney FC deserves enormous praise, but their all-conquering squad was the second-oldest of any national league champions in Australian history, reflective of an upward trend in the average ages of A-League players. This is not fertile ground for another golden generation.
Australian football needs more professional teams providing more opportunities, and the rise of Dimi Petratos is testament as to why. He benefited from an early start at one club, saw his development accelerated at another, and chanced upon a prosperous home at a third, following an unsuccessful stint overseas. The net result is not only a standout performer for Newcastle and a potential Socceroo, but also a case study for the future success of the A-League.
Success of Dimitri Petratos a case study for future success of A-League | Football | The Guardian
Only way around SFC Dads army would be to introduce an aged "salary cap". Something like eg if you are over 32 you have to be paid at least $75k, Over 28 at least $80k. All of this is a capped league of course. It would be a way to stop older guys taking low or minimum salaries as they may have earnt enough over their football careers. In theory you would want an 18 yr old on minimum wage not a 35 yr old. It would be better just to scrap the cap and increase squad sizes.
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theFOOTBALLlover
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.4K,
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+x+xAs the FFA governance dispute moves into its final phase – one that will involve the reshaping of the professional game – increasing opportunities for young players has to be a priority, especially as it may contradict the short-term interests of professional clubs. For example, the excellence and professionalism of Sydney FC deserves enormous praise, but their all-conquering squad was the second-oldest of any national league champions in Australian history, reflective of an upward trend in the average ages of A-League players. This is not fertile ground for another golden generation.
Australian football needs more professional teams providing more opportunities, and the rise of Dimi Petratos is testament as to why. He benefited from an early start at one club, saw his development accelerated at another, and chanced upon a prosperous home at a third, following an unsuccessful stint overseas. The net result is not only a standout performer for Newcastle and a potential Socceroo, but also a case study for the future success of the A-League.
Success of Dimitri Petratos a case study for future success of A-League | Football | The Guardian
Only way around SFC Dads army would be to introduce an aged "salary cap". Something like eg if you are over 32 you have to be paid at least $75k, Over 28 at least $80k. All of this is a capped league of course. It would be a way to stop older guys taking low or minimum salaries as they may have earnt enough over their football careers. In theory you would want an 18 yr old on minimum wage not a 35 yr old. It would be better just to scrap the cap and increase squad sizes. Force the A-league clubs work within a points system like the NPL clubs in NSW have to and you'll see the average age go way down. http://websites.sportstg.com/get_file.cgi?id=3369691
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TheSelectFew
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 30K,
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+x+x+xAs the FFA governance dispute moves into its final phase – one that will involve the reshaping of the professional game – increasing opportunities for young players has to be a priority, especially as it may contradict the short-term interests of professional clubs. For example, the excellence and professionalism of Sydney FC deserves enormous praise, but their all-conquering squad was the second-oldest of any national league champions in Australian history, reflective of an upward trend in the average ages of A-League players. This is not fertile ground for another golden generation.
Australian football needs more professional teams providing more opportunities, and the rise of Dimi Petratos is testament as to why. He benefited from an early start at one club, saw his development accelerated at another, and chanced upon a prosperous home at a third, following an unsuccessful stint overseas. The net result is not only a standout performer for Newcastle and a potential Socceroo, but also a case study for the future success of the A-League.
Success of Dimitri Petratos a case study for future success of A-League | Football | The Guardian
Only way around SFC Dads army would be to introduce an aged "salary cap". Something like eg if you are over 32 you have to be paid at least $75k, Over 28 at least $80k. All of this is a capped league of course. It would be a way to stop older guys taking low or minimum salaries as they may have earnt enough over their football careers. In theory you would want an 18 yr old on minimum wage not a 35 yr old. It would be better just to scrap the cap and increase squad sizes. Force the A-league clubs work within a points system like the NPL clubs in NSW have to and you'll see the average age go way down. http://websites.sportstg.com/get_file.cgi?id=3369691 Australia needs less restriction. NOT more.
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theFOOTBALLlover
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.4K,
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+x+x+x+xAs the FFA governance dispute moves into its final phase – one that will involve the reshaping of the professional game – increasing opportunities for young players has to be a priority, especially as it may contradict the short-term interests of professional clubs. For example, the excellence and professionalism of Sydney FC deserves enormous praise, but their all-conquering squad was the second-oldest of any national league champions in Australian history, reflective of an upward trend in the average ages of A-League players. This is not fertile ground for another golden generation.
Australian football needs more professional teams providing more opportunities, and the rise of Dimi Petratos is testament as to why. He benefited from an early start at one club, saw his development accelerated at another, and chanced upon a prosperous home at a third, following an unsuccessful stint overseas. The net result is not only a standout performer for Newcastle and a potential Socceroo, but also a case study for the future success of the A-League.
Success of Dimitri Petratos a case study for future success of A-League | Football | The Guardian
Only way around SFC Dads army would be to introduce an aged "salary cap". Something like eg if you are over 32 you have to be paid at least $75k, Over 28 at least $80k. All of this is a capped league of course. It would be a way to stop older guys taking low or minimum salaries as they may have earnt enough over their football careers. In theory you would want an 18 yr old on minimum wage not a 35 yr old. It would be better just to scrap the cap and increase squad sizes. Force the A-league clubs work within a points system like the NPL clubs in NSW have to and you'll see the average age go way down. http://websites.sportstg.com/get_file.cgi?id=3369691 Australia needs less restriction. NOT more. Fine by me but all clubs should have to follow the same rules.
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