National second division is kicking off with or without FFA


National second division is kicking off with or without FFA

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Gyfox
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Buggalugs 2.0 - 11 Jan 2018 6:20 PM
Gyfox - 11 Jan 2018 6:10 PM

Fingers-crossed that FIFA puts in a Board that actually actions FIFA statutes, ie P&R

page 73 of the current FIFA statutes.
Under “Sporting Integrity” in “The Regulations Governing the Application of the Statutes,”
Article 9.1 reads:
“A club’s entitlement to take part in a domestic league championship shall depend principally on sporting merit.
A club shall qualify for a domestic league championship by remaining in a certain division or by being promoted or relegated to another at the end of a season.”


FIFA won't be putting in a Board.  They will be setting up elections for a new Board.
P&R will fix it 2.0
P&R will fix it 2.0
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Gyfox - 11 Jan 2018 6:35 PM
Buggalugs 2.0 - 11 Jan 2018 6:20 PM

FIFA won't be putting in a Board.  They will be setting up elections for a new Board.

Who gets to stand for the new board ?

And who gets to vote on those that stand ?

Closed HAL is failing with 10 teams
Closed HAL failed with 11
FFA forced to try a 12 team Closed HAL thatll just create 2 more mid table also-rans
and still this weird 16-team panacea gets trotted out. 
Theres a sticky for this nonsense
https://forum.insidesport.com.au/1617388/The-Aleague-Expansion-Thread

Edited
6 Years Ago by Buggalugs 2.0
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Buggalugs 2.0 - 11 Jan 2018 6:43 PM
Gyfox - 11 Jan 2018 6:35 PM

Who gets to stand for the new board ?

And who gets to vote on that board ?

How it happens will be stated in the new constitution that the NC would have to get through the existing members.  Once the new constitution is approved then the stakeholders identified in that constitution will elect the directors.  The constitution would also specify the nomination process and the qualifications required.  Often a committee shortlists those meeting the requirements.
P&R will fix it 2.0
P&R will fix it 2.0
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Gyfox - 11 Jan 2018 6:48 PM
Buggalugs 2.0 - 11 Jan 2018 6:43 PM

How it happens will be stated in the new constitution that the NC would have to get through the existing members.  Once the new constitution is approved then the stakeholders identified in that constitution will elect the directors.  The constitution would also specify the nomination process and the qualifications required.  Often a committee shortlists those meeting the requirements.

So,

We get a constitution that is FIFA statute-based, 

Then people who actually can and want to action that constitution stand

Then a board is elected of people who actually want to enact said Statute-friendly Constitution
 

Closed HAL is failing with 10 teams
Closed HAL failed with 11
FFA forced to try a 12 team Closed HAL thatll just create 2 more mid table also-rans
and still this weird 16-team panacea gets trotted out. 
Theres a sticky for this nonsense
https://forum.insidesport.com.au/1617388/The-Aleague-Expansion-Thread

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credit bigpoppa
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More action here than expansion will ever bring. 


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Far right design looks the goods

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What, you mean like currently? The A League fully complies with the statutes you've posted.

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MarkfromCroydon - 12 Jan 2018 10:13 PM
What, you mean like currently? The A League fully complies with the statutes you've posted.

Article 9.1 reads: 
“A club’s entitlement to take part in a domestic league championship shall depend principally on sporting merit. 
A club shall qualify for a domestic league championship by remaining in a certain division or by being promoted or relegated to another at the end of a season.”

Members of the A-League were selected on business cases rather than sporting merit, as there is no relegation maintaining championship status is also nothing to do with sporting merit either.
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Benjamin - 12 Jan 2018 11:28 PM
MarkfromCroydon - 12 Jan 2018 10:13 PM

Article 9.1 reads: 
“A club’s entitlement to take part in a domestic league championship shall depend principally on sporting merit. 
A club shall qualify for a domestic league championship by remaining in a certain division or by being promoted or relegated to another at the end of a season.”

Members of the A-League were selected on business cases rather than sporting merit, as there is no relegation maintaining championship status is also nothing to do with sporting merit either.

I agree with you that they are breaking the spirit of this law (and don't hear me defending them). The problem though is that though that 9.2 provides enough legal wiggle room to render 9.1 irrelevant. It allows participation to be dependent on "financial considerations" and does not define such considerations in such a way that prevents selection based on business cases (even though I think we would all agree that the intent was about the club proving they had the finances to go up, not the member claiming the game didn't have the finances for P&R). From my laymen's perspective (and I could definitely be wrong), it looks like all FFA have to do then is provide a compelling business case that the game can't financially afford to replace broad clubs with other clubs through P&R and they can say they are compliant. 
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PricklePear - 12 Jan 2018 7:56 PM
Far right design looks the goods

I like 1,3 and 6 when I see them all. 

I think SU58 and Marconi will apply for the Champ and also perhaps Bonnyrigg. As well the area is WSW so club colours need some consideration. 

They are a new club but I think mainly from SD Raiders people. However I think they want to drop the red and green. 

I dont mind blue and green, given other teams in the are I think you could have maroon and yellow/gold  like Motherwell or Bradford. I would avoid hoops though as to not look so much like WSW. 

Related image
Related imageImage result for bradford fc

Not sure if the people would think it is too Brisbaney. 

Here are some reviews 

https://www.facebook.com/Southwestsydneyfc/photos/a.1817394635218168.1073741829.1723238781300421/1851042028520095/?type=3&theater


I guess if its green and blue people will complain its too Fairfield and perhaps if maroon too much rams who knows? 
Good that they will have fan forums. 


Edited
6 Years Ago by scott21
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Heat vs Fury reboot



Still shocking Cairns went with orange and lilac
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scott21 - 13 Jan 2018 3:23 PM
Heat vs Fury rebootStill shocking Cairns went with orange and lilac

Mmm saw that. 


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bigpoppa - 12 Jan 2018 7:57 PM

My concept for a national pyramid (w/ 3rd tier):




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"Australian championship" happy with that name. big improvement from "the championship"
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BA81 - 15 Jan 2018 5:48 PM
bigpoppa - 12 Jan 2018 7:57 PM

My concept for a national pyramid (w/ 3rd tier):


IMO Tier 3 should be split into 2 regions, either East and West, or North and South. This would reduce travel cost which I think would be one of the biggest expenses (disregarding salary) that these clubs would face.

Promotion to Tier 2 would be either a playoff between the top 2 teams in each reagion, or just straight promote the winner of each region. The only problem is that I can't see too many WA teams being competitive in Tier 3 or even Tier 2.

Edited
6 Years Ago by PricklePear
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I personally like the Bundesliga feel the best, with B2

On the B2 games you have the same on screen graphics and even the Bundeliga plate. Even though it is the Sanaa other leagues with pro rel you get the feeling they are playing towards winning the Bundesliga and you don't have as much of a separation feeling as eg EPL and Champ (EFL).

So I would be happy to have the new A-League logo in gold, have it in silver for Champ and bronze if you had a div 3. When you get to state have it in each state colour eg Qld in maroon, NSW sky blue and so on. All on the same place on the jerseys.

This is do even little kids have it playing on their kits and it's the same at the top clubs, albeit a different colour. Junior team of A-League clubs to use local league colours not gold.
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Please note: we have revised our timeline for development of #TheChampionship - but *not* the timeline for implementation. This is because we have not yet had the first working group meeting which will be scheduled for next month, after we've had a chance to meet with FFA again.
5:05 AM · Jan 15, 2018
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Wonder if FFA can drag this out as long as they have expansion.
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bigpoppa - 15 Jan 2018 7:28 PM
Wonder if FFA can drag this out as long as they have expansion.

Of course they will. 

Nothing has been mentioned but I wonder if this could lead to a breakaway 2nd division. How many teams sell players to A-League or OS clubs atm?

If it doesnt get sanctioned teams may choose to leave the NPL anyway. They are tired of paying so much in club fees. They are doing all the work now to see if it would be financially viable to do so and im sure the likes of SBS wouldnt care if it was sanctioned or not. Also, it messes with the FFA Cup as clubs would be unable to play. 

Would be a ballsy move. 
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No simple solutions to Australia's Asian decline as Olyroos crash out to South Korea

It's a habit Australian soccer is desperate to kick.
Once again, an age group Australian team – this time the under-23s – were weighed in the balance against Asian opposition, and once again found wanting.
Some young players, like Alex Gersbach, have experience in the senior side.
Some young players, like Alex Gersbach, have experience in the senior side.

Photo: AP
The latest under-23 group (who will form the basis of the Olyroos squad that seeks to qualify for the 2020 Olympics) lost 3-2 to South Korea in the early hours of Thursday morning in an AFC Championship game, a result that rather flattered them considering they had been 3-0 down with 25 minutes of the game remaining.
That followed a 1-0 loss to Vietnam in the second game of the tournament, a result that always meant qualifying for the knockout stage was going to be difficult, despite a win in the opening game over Syria.
This tournament might have been dismissed as inconsequential by A-League clubs angry at losing players for a couple of weeks, but the poor outcome will have ramifications.
The failure will mean Australia are now likely to receive a lower seeding for the Olympic qualifying tournament.
That means that they will almost inevitably be drawn in a tougher qualifying group, making it even harder for this country to qualify for the Olympics for the first time since Beijing 2008.
Mind you, that's probably just about what Australia deserve.
Long gone are the days when a bigger, stronger, physically quicker and more developed Australian team could brush off their Asian challengers.
No longer do Asian rivals look at Australia and see an all-powerful entity. Nowadays they see a team that is eminently beatable.
The team that kicked off against the South Koreans is a case in point.
They are not bad players – several have had some experience in the A-League and a few (Riley McGree, Ajdin Hrustic, Alex Gersbach and Daniel De Silva) have even been involved in senior Socceroos squads.
But they were simply not good enough against a nation that consistently produces good-quality players and makes a habit of qualifying for world cups and performing creditably at international tournaments.
There are myriad reasons for Australia's continuing failure, which is not a new experience. As long ago as 2007, former Socceroos boss Ange Postecoglou was sacked as coach of the underage teams because of a relative lack of success, replaced in his job in February that year after the Young Socceroos failed to make the 2007 under-20 World Cup.
It's popular, but simplistic, to look for easy explanations. There are a number of factors contributing to the current malaise.
Some will point to the national development curriculum for junior soccer implemented by the FFA when it was under a heavy Dutch influence and argue that the mantra for possession-based soccer has put a premium on ball retention without any emphasis on penetration or using the ball effectively or in dangerous areas.
Others will argue that not enough young players get chances in the A-League, and that hinders their development.
More will point to other nations spending proportionately far more on development than Australia and being rewarded in kind.
What can't be denied is that in almost every other Asian country soccer is the only game in town and thus all the best athletes are playing it – unlike here, where talented sportsmen and women can have their pick of potential professional careers in at least four codes of football.
There is no doubt that an increase in the number of clubs playing professionally in this country would help enormously, as it would create more opportunities and widen the pathway for talented players.
Too many are simply not getting enough game time in the crucial 18-21 development window as A-League coaches are largely risk-averse.
If there were more teams in the A-League (at least another four) and a second division (run on fully professional lines, albeit with lower salaries and costs) then there would be far more opportunities for good young players to get the exposure to hard-edged, competitive league soccer where results matter and points gained or dropped can mean the difference between a championship, a promotion place or avoiding relegation.
That might not be an immediate panacea, but it would surely help create a far more ruthless and hard-nosed culture and make Australia's talented teens and early 20-somethings much more street smart.
In the short term – at least while the A-League remains a 10-team competition – a cut in the number of foreign visa spots would help a little.
If clubs were only allowed to sign three foreigners, or perhaps three plus an Asian player, rather than the current five that would open up a handful of extra spots that younger players could at least strive for.
There is a revolution going on in the game in Asia.
Unless things improve in this country and Australia can match the rate of development and progress being made throughout the region, qualifying for major competitions may become the exception rather than the rule.
Michael Lynch, The Age's expert on soccer, has had extensive experience of high level journalism in the UK and Australia. Michael has covered the Socceroos through Asia, Europe and South America in their past three World Cup campaigns. He has also reported on Grands Prix and top class motor sport from Asia and Europe. He has won several national media awards for both sports and industry journalism.

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/sport/soccer/no-simple-solutions-to-australias-asian-decline-as-olyroos-crash-out-to-south-korea-20180118-h0kao5.html
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scott21 - 18 Jan 2018 5:42 PM
If there were more teams in the A-League (at least another four) and a second division (run on fully professional lines, albeit with lower salaries and costs) then there would be far more opportunities for good young players to get the exposure to hard-edged, competitive league soccer where results matter and points gained or dropped can mean the difference between a championship, a promotion place or avoiding relegation.That might not be an immediate panacea, but it would surely help create a far more ruthless and hard-nosed culture and make Australia's talented teens and early 20-somethings much more street smart.In the short term – at least while the A-League remains a 10-team competition – a cut in the number of foreign visa spots would help a little.If clubs were only allowed to sign three foreigners, or perhaps three plus an Asian player, rather than the current five that would open up a handful of extra spots that younger players could at least strive for. 

@ Jnr/DG
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aufc_ole - 18 Jan 2018 5:48 PM
scott21 - 18 Jan 2018 5:42 PM

@ Jnr/DG

I don't think clubs would be ready to travel nationally all the way down to a third division. Just comparing to Portugal - there are 2 national divisions (18 teams/ 20 teams) and then the third division is split into 5 geographical groups (16 teams in each). 

I think we could do something similar but with state competitions (A-league, B-league and 10 NPL's (QLD, NNSW, NSW, ACT, VIC, TAS, SA, WA, NT and potentially NZ's Championship). If we have a 20 team B-league, we could have 5 being relegated and the state winners would be randomly drawn against each other with the winner getting promoted. If we think 5 is too much, we can create straight knock outs between all the state league winners until we get 2-4 winners which get promoted. 

They have a similar system in Portugal between the 2nd and 3rd division. They have 5 group winners who than play for 4 spots. 1 misses out. 
P&R will fix it 2.0
P&R will fix it 2.0
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Only need a national 2nd Div

Promotion from the 3rd tier can be organised from the regional winners that nominate

Closed HAL is failing with 10 teams
Closed HAL failed with 11
FFA forced to try a 12 team Closed HAL thatll just create 2 more mid table also-rans
and still this weird 16-team panacea gets trotted out. 
Theres a sticky for this nonsense
https://forum.insidesport.com.au/1617388/The-Aleague-Expansion-Thread

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Buggalugs 2.0 - 18 Jan 2018 6:20 PM
Only need a national 2nd Div

Promotion from the 3rd tier can be organised from the regional winners that nominate

It'd be a better buffer from pro tiers to have a third tier. Not a necessity though but better for the game. 


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@footballlover

Forget about NZ.

Also, we can't a system where Tas, ACT and NT winners are 1 game away from div 2 each season.
P&R will fix it 2.0
P&R will fix it 2.0
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TheSelectFew - 18 Jan 2018 6:31 PM
Buggalugs 2.0 - 18 Jan 2018 6:20 PM

It'd be a better buffer from pro tiers to have a third tier. Not a necessity though but better for the game. 

Get the Full Pyramid in place first.

EVERYTHING else will shake out

Closed HAL is failing with 10 teams
Closed HAL failed with 11
FFA forced to try a 12 team Closed HAL thatll just create 2 more mid table also-rans
and still this weird 16-team panacea gets trotted out. 
Theres a sticky for this nonsense
https://forum.insidesport.com.au/1617388/The-Aleague-Expansion-Thread

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Buggalugs 2.0 - 18 Jan 2018 8:10 PM
TheSelectFew - 18 Jan 2018 6:31 PM

Get the Full Pyramid in place first.

EVERYTHING else will shake out

Either or. 


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scott21 - 18 Jan 2018 6:36 PM
@footballloverForget about NZ.Also, we can't a system where Tas, ACT and NT winners are 1 game away from div 2 each season.

If the others as as good as you seem to be hinting then it shouldn't be a problem. 

Also, if there are only 3 clubs getting promoted, you'd need at least 2 games to decide the 3 clubs from 9 state/territory winners. 
GO


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