Very much like South Melbourne Hellas announcements lol..

Ok let's talk about something more recent....
How's West Melbourne Going?

Agree 100% with Spider

https://mobile.twitter.com/ShimMuch/status/1285405671727366147

FFA have never released a criteria because they know clubs will be able to reach reasonable goals....

“FootballQLD @FootballQLD BIG match, BIG commentator! Studio microphone We're thrilled to have the legendary @simonhill1894 call this weekend's blockbuster #NPLQLD clash between reigning Premiers @lionsfc1 and Champions @gcknightsfc . Watch this showstopper LIVE via the FQ Facebook page or @npltv this Saturday at 7pm!”

100%.   Everything the FFA has ever done is to exclude everything that isn't a franchise from Day Dot. 

Much as I love to put the boot in to the FFA .... 

There is no blaming the FFA over this. AAFC can set up and run this competition themselves - why haven’t they? No one is stopping them

if there are good reasons why they can’t do it then they need to make those reason public, then it’s a question of should the FFA help out. 

No one ever wants to say this out loud, it has all been about collecting big license fees (the closed MLS model), and as long as there remains anyone wanting to pay a big license fee, there will NEVER be direct P&R.

So this backs up what you are saying, it follows that the longer the FFA delays an NSD, the further out they can put off any discussion about P&R, the more they can focus on what they are really interested in, and that is generating license fees.

With less than a year to run on the broadcast deal, the FFA should be canvassing models to prospective broadcasters for an A league/NSD package. That way candidate NSD clubs could have an idea of the level of exposure the NSD can expect, which should give them the confidence to submit an application. The pending broadcast deal should be seen an opportunity to give the NSD a leg up in its promotion (I.e., advertising, not prom/reg).

For example, if the leagues were reduced to home and away, there would be room for a combined league cup to launch each season. With a group stage of 4 groups of 6 teams, this could add a minimum of 5 extra games to the annual calendar. With 22 home and away league games that's 27 rounds. There would essentially be two finals series per year to attract casual fans. The NSD teams would get at least 3 meaningful matchups with A league opposition to build their brand.

I think streaming would be the best fit where number of subscribers is the measure of worth rather than viewers per game. The FFA could massively boost subscriber numbers by incorporating subscription into registration fees. The best game of the week should be free to air though, to help grow the brand. i.e., all derbies should be free to air.

Of course it is. It's essentially the bedrock upon which the franchise model is built.  P&R would mean that the promoted clubs wouldn't pay a ridiculous license fee. 

Remember when it was either Nathan Tinkler or Clive Palmer found out that they got bent over for the license fee because it was significantly more than what the other clubs paid?  Now imagine the rest of the clubs who of course would never say it having to wear a newly promoted state league club in the A League who has paid a significantly less "license" fee initially & on an ongoing basis.  

This is why P&R is NEVER going to happen in Australia, bet the house on it & why the FFA is undermining the NSD at every opportunity, they don't want any competition that hasn't "paid to play".   It's all also essentially why Australian football will never be as good as it could be with this fucked up franchise mentality.  

It's a clear conflict of interest.
Why get a second division up and running when some of those clubs could pay a big licence fee to join the AL?
Time will tell if JJ is able to do the right thing over bags of cash.

If the foundation a league teams generally have not paid a huge license fee, maybe the few clubs that have paid these fees could be reimbursed. Tat would remove the excuse for not scrapping the franchise system. FFA could lobby FIFA to subsidise these one off payments.

BTW - this is a question - not the support for any position, 
 
The foundation A League clubs have made huge losses over many years - supposedly generating most of the FFA income from broadcast deals, sponsorship etc with only a small portion returning to them. This is the 'their license fee' and is a lot more than Western United or Macarthur have been asked to pay. So are you saying the HAL owners should subsidise the HAL for years, fight for independence and then be happy to drop down through P & R just as they take control of their own destiny?

national comp has to be approved by FA and they h

thats BS Waz and despite being called out several times on it you keep repeating it.

Every national comp has to be approved by FFA otherwise it inst recognized by FFA, AFC or FIFA. So technically the NPL clubs could start their own national churches competition, but it wont be recognized as an official 2nd Division.

Quote direct from FFA website: https://www.ffa.com.au/news/ffa-responds-aafc-second-division-proposal-announcement

"Mr Gallop said any second division national competition would need to be sanctioned by FFA"

Personally, I would be happy if they set up a NSD with P/R to lower leagues as this would turbocharge the football ecosystem underneath the NSD. I saw it first hand in Vic when FFV opened up P/R from NPL down, that generated a huge increase in investment in facilities and player wages!

If AL chooses to stay seperate because of their "investment" so be it but it would be to their own detriment and probably speed up their demise.

+1 

With pro/rel, the A League could then do away with the semi final concept. The comp would stay exciting for longer anyway.

On Simon Hill's new podcast they mentioned the AAFC were meeting with the FFA this week. Haven't heard any updates in the media yet, but it would be good to know where it's all at. What's happening with this working group or steering committee that was formed, driven by Remo Nogarotto? Weren't they going to conduct an expressions of interest process?

Good points Pat. I hadn't thought of it that way. Though the foundation clubs were riding off the success of the Socceroos in the early days. A standalone A League broadcast deal would have offerred little to no interest to broadcasters in the beginning. Only in the last 3 or 4 years was the A league broadcast rights considered valuable enough to stand alone. In the standalone deal, the clubs took more than $30M of the "supposed" $57M contract - which is before FOX took production and advertising costs out. Also the clubs weren't paying running costs for the league such as referees salaries. When the league goes independent, it will still be expected  to subsidise the FFA via a yearly payment. So the independent clubs may not be much better off financially  than they are now. Going forward, I'd be surprised if the A league clubs don't still run at a loss. Isn't that the norm for professional sports clubs? The situation for clubs like McCarthur is different if the license system is changed or falls over. They forked out $15M and are yet to kick a ball.

It was the Hyundai A-League - where did that sponsorship money flow to. Certainly not to the clubs. The point is it is not a simple thing to make it fair and equitable. There needs to be P & R. How you do it is the trick and whichever way you go there will be winners and losers.

There sure is alot of "where did this money go ? and to who/what/where ?" like from Hyundai and other corp sponsers for sure.
Agree regards to some of the 1st Franchise owners having lost alot of money....
We need to remember these are passion investments - only the large Euro clubs make some dollars due to other investment portfolio's, merchadising etc whereas here our merchandising sales are very small/bugger all, you sure can't get a good ROI.
IF Lowy had set up a proper P/R league from the beginning imagine the corporate dollars it could have built up the way it took off those first 5odd yrs.
Thats what builds up the revenue needed to run a league and drip it down the next channel/s.
Franchise can't do this as we know, they have a right to question its governing body and contest them, I sure would for the coin I thrown at it right.
OK you can't just credit back a sum agreed to each Franchise but what about - as long as they agree to go ahead with P/R they come to a agreed % rebate end of each season for x years to a portion of their original Franchise fee ?
This occurs ofcourse after some good sponsership money gets pulled back into the new league for they all know we're back to crawling not walking.
patjennings as you finished is the massive Q > How you do it is the trick and whichever way you go there will be winners and losers.         
Every owner knows they are going to lose in anycase but its coming up with a acceptable model that gets a majority thumbs up.

The options for the AL are do nothing and everyone loses their entire investment because the trends at the moment are not sustainable.

 or do something and 2 clubs are at risk of their investment reducing in value when they are relegated every year but their is the opportunity to win that back if / when they are promoted

I know which one I would take

What happened to the working group? Likely affected by that little thing called COVID-19 and the lack of ability to even know if clubs will be able to pay their existing bills, let alone a NSD adventure. 

Pro/rel won't be happening.

A major point of a-l separation is to prevent it from happening.

No owner wants their team to go to a shifty second division.

meant shitty

There is barely any talk of P&R from JJ. 

Big slap lap in the face it appears.

This has been the case from the start.
He's already had some good achievements, but when it comes to P&R, I think we have to accept that it won't happen under his watch.

The reality is JJ replaced Gallop not Lowy.
Lowy called the shots as Chairman.So surely the new Chairman does the same.
JJ is an employee,who is employed to do what he is told.He clearly knows how to navigate through a political landscape.He talks the talk.
It's still early days.But we wont know if he is just another puppet like his predecessors or can bring real change that can get everyone excited about the game again.
As far as the A-League is concerned,nothing has changed so far.So unfortunately we cant expect  a recovery yet.

Yes, agree, it's as much the Chair (maybe more) as it is the CEO.

What I would like to see is a clear model put forward by those stakeholders pushing for a NSD. That way we can tell there is substance behind the words and make a case for the competition, and subsequent P&R scenarios, to occur. 

No it’s back to front.

FFA should create a criteria. Not vice versa.

This is why we are not moving forward. FFA can just say, “we need AL to be sustainable first” or “we are having robust discussions”

why should stakeholder present something that can be rejected? It’s just a time waster 

FFA sanctions the league. It is their responsibility. Don’t let them or posters here paint the picture like it is anybody else’s