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aussie scott21
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Group: Forum Members
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+xYou seem to give a fark Roberts His systems are starting to fail. Was no Hellas in AL, now no Hellas in 2nd div. Now misinterpreted simple engrish
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aufc_ole
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+xSo krayem was on bill and boz last night, according to bozza it was the highest rated episode ever! Smell the fear!! Roberts won't respond now. BOZZA = NSL BITTER/SELF INTERESTS
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Roberts1
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Group: Banned Members
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Outrate the HAL
You people are crazy
So what did the diseased NSL rate never more than 10k
How can a shit 2nd tier load of rubbish rate more than the HAL
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bigpoppa
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You seem to give a fark Roberts
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aussie scott21
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Group: Forum Members
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+xFear of what - a BS Comp that’s not going to start and no body gives a farrrk about I dont expect it will outrate AL at all when it starts. Its about giving players a better platform and pathway.
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Roberts1
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Group: Banned Members
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Fear of what - a BS Comp that’s not going to start and no body gives a farrrk about
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TheSelectFew
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 30K,
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+xSo krayem was on bill and boz last night, according to bozza it was the highest rated episode ever! Smell the fear!! Roberts won't respond now.
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southmelb
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Group: Forum Members
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So krayem was on bill and boz last night, according to bozza it was the highest rated episode ever!
Smell the fear!!
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AJF
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.7K,
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+xBluebird ‘they only got 52M’Are you madThe rights have steadily increased since the death of the diseased NSLGiven the TV ratings the amount they receive is a master stroke Given the TV ratings at the moment, they better start squirreling money away as you can bet the next TV deal wont be so generous
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Roberts1
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 246,
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Bluebird ‘they only got 52M’
Are you mad
The rights have steadily increased since the death of the diseased NSL
Given the TV ratings the amount they receive is a master stroke
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bluebird
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x‘16 groups of new fans ‘That’s 16x0 equals 0There are no fans that can come from this BS league.Everyone has already jumped ship — ask the Hellas bitters - 99% have gone to MVThe 1% that remain that’s 20 people pollute this forum with BS daily as per this stupid topic Effectively the number of people who paid a ridiculous fee to play the game in Victoria for "tin pot unsupported nothing clubs" equates to those who bothered to watch the Sydney derby, the A League's biggest game, nationally and free across metro Australia And that's those who play in a state dominated by the AFL and Aussie rules grounds, let alone NSW where the fucking game was being played The A League metrics are so low I cant believe you would actually come here to boast about them. A game with a TV deal 13% the size of the AFL, a salary cap 1/3 of the size, crowds 1/3 of the size...And the numbers continue to drop But that's OK, because it is fairing better than leagues with no money and no interest Keep on comparing your dick to a belly button I actually don't even get your point. The league is barely a decade old. Its up against a league that has some of he oldest clubs in the world of any code. In tht time it has achieved crowds 1/ 3 the size Its delusion to think that all these disparate State Clubs are suddenly going to create a league that challenges the AFL for TV dollars, and attendances. Football in this country is what is: Today's Melbournes Age has 8 stories about AFL on its homepage. Football has one on Ange and one on the Euro leagues. Its their off-season FFS. The VFL, formerly VFA, is older than the AFL yet it doesn't have a $2.5b TV deal. Its a barely watched league that some people mistake for a second division This isn't a time issue like some people here think. If it was then why did we reset the counter after nearly 30 years with the NSL? Surely you believe that we were almost 1/3 of the way towards 30k averages and a $2.5b TV deal??? In contrast the BBL, which plays a form of a game barely older than the A League (let alone the code) is getting ratings, attendances and money our game can only dream of My point wasn't that football is going to challenge the AFL any time soon. My point was this metrics obsessed dribble is out of context. The A League has failed as a commercial product. In the last 5 years the FFA have thrown everything at crowds and ratings to rescue the only two parts of the game they care about and we have seen a slide Football is what it is, as you said. No clean air. No mainstream media interest. Just a base of rusted on fans that want to see a professional competitive league What idiots here don't seem to understand is a 2nd tier and a 1st tier are two sides of the same coinSure we can have 20 teams in a single division. Give clubs 19 and 20 the same resources as clubs 1 and 2. Give them the same TV opportunities, sponsorship opportunities, and access to the same players. Imagine a business where everybody got paid the same. Where the CEO doesn't get a company car and a mobile phone unless there are resources to ensure the janitor does also I would have thought a prerequisite to a professional league would be some kind of economic realityMakes more sense to split the 20 teams into a 12 and 8 conference. One conference has more money and more sponsorship opportunities. They also have better players and prime TV spots. The second conference which features teams 19 and 20 play in smaller venues, have less money from a central pool, and don't have the best players. In other words they only have what they need - a broom, a mop, and a closet to put it in. If they want more they can climb the "corporate chain". Invest more, get more The muppets here who are so opposed to a second tier structure either think: . Anything spent on more than 10 teams is a waste of money . It is better to spend $8m on 2 clubs at the bottom of the table than $8m on 8 clubs at the bottom of the table Its not just greed and self interest holding our game back. But also stupidity Football is what it is, as you said. We either accept that and work within our limitations to get the best of our game. Or we wait 90 years and we will magically have our answer. Didn't work for the VFL. Didn't work for the NSL. But got a good feeling about this one... The problem with your argument is that in the BBL, and the AFL there is DEMAND from the public. They WILL pay to watch live. They will buy pay TV subs. They will tune to FTA. Cricket and Aussie Rules predate Australia as a federation. These sports are entrenched in the Aussie culture. And they get watch the best in the world. IF there was a public and commercial demand for a national second division, what you say makes sense. But there isn't. Its just the clubs and Federations. The A-league is going backwards for the same reason- its not meeting the needs of the fans: extra teams, new players, bigger names. If you want cheap DVDs or Games go to BigW The reason why they can do this is by a magical economic thing called product lines. People shop at BigW to get a range of stuff which the owners make money from, and they can afford to cut the cost of electronics because one pays for the other. If BigW ditched electronics then they'll lose customers Football, without a W League, youth league, FFA cup, state feds, national youth and womens teams would be fucked. Football as just the A League and just the Socceroos would be a paradox because neither would have the same commercial value they have without the other 80% non profitable side of the game giving it interest This is why the AFL can afford to have the AFLW and a VicKick program. This is why they can afford to fund football in other countries. You think those Mozambique leagues are paying for themselves? The AFL, BBL and other leagues all have additional leagues such as womens, youth etc... which will never have enough funding to stand on its own feet The argument here seems to be we can do everything except for a second division, even though as I have stated it is merely a different conference to the first tier I'm glad you're not in charge of football in this country because you'd cull everything that isn't of commercial interest. I'd hate to think what it would be like if we lost funding for Futsal... The W_league and Matilda's are politically-correct imposts of doing business in today's 'modern and equality driven " world. Explain why without the W-League, the Matilda's and the FFA Cup, the A-League and Socceroos would be fucked? And Futsal-Tom Rogic aside-please. Good one. You really are an intelligent individual aren't you. No wonder every one of your posts reminds me of the anti gay marriage ads If football was just the A League and the Socceroos you wouldn't have hundreds of thousands of people playing it each week. You wouldn't have government funding and you'd barely have mainstream interest Not only that but you are forgetting a delicate little fact: If it wasn't for the Socceroos there would be no A League. Full stop. End of discussion Take away macro economics theory and you end up with a Socceroos with mild mainstream interest, and no funding or support for any other level of the game. You end up with exactly what we had before And explain to me why your precious "everybody for themselves" model conveniently has MV and SFC paying for the other clubs You don't have an argument. You cant even present a valid consistent viewpoint that isn't destroyed by thousands of precedents across thousands of leagues all across the globe, if not already torn apart by your own posts. This is nothing more than a private agenda A second tier is the end of football. Bye bye everything we worked hard on I'll refrain from calling you a stupid invertebrate, so instead i'll take downyour points one by one. "In 2003, as Frank Lowy contemplated what life might be like running his beloved game, he looked at the finances of the organisation he inherited. What he saw was not a pretty sight, a few hundred thousand dollars rattling around inside the piggy bank.... ...Speaking as the game's potential saviour, so perceived by the prime minister, he told Howard he needed $15 million, not a cent less. Howard instructed the managers of government sports funding, the Sports Commission, to take care of it." http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/blog/2017/06/02/league-deadlock-calls-government-helpNo W-League. No Matilda's. No Socceroos. $15 million for the A-League. The other delicate fact is without the A-league post 2006 there would be no Socceroos, no Joeys, no Olyroos, no Matilda's, no W-League. Its not the other way around. What happens overseas is irrelevant. The spectator market for football here is very different. End of. Flaw 1: You claim he was given $15m for the A League. He was given $15m for the FFA which runs all parts of the game. Including money for Hiddink. Lowy was put in charge of the FFA, not just the A League Flaw 2: The W League existed as the WNSL during that time frame for a period. The Matildas existed also out of the same pool of funds. So did the other national teams Flaw 3: The strength of the TV deal negotiated in 2006 was the Socceroos which was part of the payTV rights. The A League was only negotiated as a stand alone product in the current TV deal. The FFA expected $80m, they only got $52m pending expansion. No Socceroos, no A League Flaw 4: You claim the spectator market here is different. Yet the majority of Australians who follow our code follow the EPL and other overseas leagues. If the Australian model was a prerequisite to Australian support then it would be by far the most popular amongst Australians. Yet Australians support Collingwood and Manchester United. The AFL has one model, the EPL has another. There is no one way of doing things. Australians follow sports of all shapes and sizes
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Roberts1
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 246,
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‘Who is calling for it’
The exNSL bitters that pollute this forum
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x‘16 groups of new fans ‘That’s 16x0 equals 0There are no fans that can come from this BS league.Everyone has already jumped ship — ask the Hellas bitters - 99% have gone to MVThe 1% that remain that’s 20 people pollute this forum with BS daily as per this stupid topic Effectively the number of people who paid a ridiculous fee to play the game in Victoria for "tin pot unsupported nothing clubs" equates to those who bothered to watch the Sydney derby, the A League's biggest game, nationally and free across metro Australia And that's those who play in a state dominated by the AFL and Aussie rules grounds, let alone NSW where the fucking game was being played The A League metrics are so low I cant believe you would actually come here to boast about them. A game with a TV deal 13% the size of the AFL, a salary cap 1/3 of the size, crowds 1/3 of the size...And the numbers continue to drop But that's OK, because it is fairing better than leagues with no money and no interest Keep on comparing your dick to a belly button I actually don't even get your point. The league is barely a decade old. Its up against a league that has some of he oldest clubs in the world of any code. In tht time it has achieved crowds 1/ 3 the size Its delusion to think that all these disparate State Clubs are suddenly going to create a league that challenges the AFL for TV dollars, and attendances. Football in this country is what is: Today's Melbournes Age has 8 stories about AFL on its homepage. Football has one on Ange and one on the Euro leagues. Its their off-season FFS. The VFL, formerly VFA, is older than the AFL yet it doesn't have a $2.5b TV deal. Its a barely watched league that some people mistake for a second division This isn't a time issue like some people here think. If it was then why did we reset the counter after nearly 30 years with the NSL? Surely you believe that we were almost 1/3 of the way towards 30k averages and a $2.5b TV deal??? In contrast the BBL, which plays a form of a game barely older than the A League (let alone the code) is getting ratings, attendances and money our game can only dream of My point wasn't that football is going to challenge the AFL any time soon. My point was this metrics obsessed dribble is out of context. The A League has failed as a commercial product. In the last 5 years the FFA have thrown everything at crowds and ratings to rescue the only two parts of the game they care about and we have seen a slide Football is what it is, as you said. No clean air. No mainstream media interest. Just a base of rusted on fans that want to see a professional competitive league What idiots here don't seem to understand is a 2nd tier and a 1st tier are two sides of the same coinSure we can have 20 teams in a single division. Give clubs 19 and 20 the same resources as clubs 1 and 2. Give them the same TV opportunities, sponsorship opportunities, and access to the same players. Imagine a business where everybody got paid the same. Where the CEO doesn't get a company car and a mobile phone unless there are resources to ensure the janitor does also I would have thought a prerequisite to a professional league would be some kind of economic realityMakes more sense to split the 20 teams into a 12 and 8 conference. One conference has more money and more sponsorship opportunities. They also have better players and prime TV spots. The second conference which features teams 19 and 20 play in smaller venues, have less money from a central pool, and don't have the best players. In other words they only have what they need - a broom, a mop, and a closet to put it in. If they want more they can climb the "corporate chain". Invest more, get more The muppets here who are so opposed to a second tier structure either think: . Anything spent on more than 10 teams is a waste of money . It is better to spend $8m on 2 clubs at the bottom of the table than $8m on 8 clubs at the bottom of the table Its not just greed and self interest holding our game back. But also stupidity Football is what it is, as you said. We either accept that and work within our limitations to get the best of our game. Or we wait 90 years and we will magically have our answer. Didn't work for the VFL. Didn't work for the NSL. But got a good feeling about this one... The problem with your argument is that in the BBL, and the AFL there is DEMAND from the public. They WILL pay to watch live. They will buy pay TV subs. They will tune to FTA. Cricket and Aussie Rules predate Australia as a federation. These sports are entrenched in the Aussie culture. And they get watch the best in the world. IF there was a public and commercial demand for a national second division, what you say makes sense. But there isn't. Its just the clubs and Federations. The A-league is going backwards for the same reason- its not meeting the needs of the fans: extra teams, new players, bigger names. If you want cheap DVDs or Games go to BigW The reason why they can do this is by a magical economic thing called product lines. People shop at BigW to get a range of stuff which the owners make money from, and they can afford to cut the cost of electronics because one pays for the other. If BigW ditched electronics then they'll lose customers Football, without a W League, youth league, FFA cup, state feds, national youth and womens teams would be fucked. Football as just the A League and just the Socceroos would be a paradox because neither would have the same commercial value they have without the other 80% non profitable side of the game giving it interest This is why the AFL can afford to have the AFLW and a VicKick program. This is why they can afford to fund football in other countries. You think those Mozambique leagues are paying for themselves? The AFL, BBL and other leagues all have additional leagues such as womens, youth etc... which will never have enough funding to stand on its own feet The argument here seems to be we can do everything except for a second division, even though as I have stated it is merely a different conference to the first tier I'm glad you're not in charge of football in this country because you'd cull everything that isn't of commercial interest. I'd hate to think what it would be like if we lost funding for Futsal... The W_league and Matilda's are politically-correct imposts of doing business in today's 'modern and equality driven " world. Explain why without the W-League, the Matilda's and the FFA Cup, the A-League and Socceroos would be fucked? And Futsal-Tom Rogic aside-please. Good one. You really are an intelligent individual aren't you. No wonder every one of your posts reminds me of the anti gay marriage ads If football was just the A League and the Socceroos you wouldn't have hundreds of thousands of people playing it each week. You wouldn't have government funding and you'd barely have mainstream interest Not only that but you are forgetting a delicate little fact: If it wasn't for the Socceroos there would be no A League. Full stop. End of discussion Take away macro economics theory and you end up with a Socceroos with mild mainstream interest, and no funding or support for any other level of the game. You end up with exactly what we had before And explain to me why your precious "everybody for themselves" model conveniently has MV and SFC paying for the other clubs You don't have an argument. You cant even present a valid consistent viewpoint that isn't destroyed by thousands of precedents across thousands of leagues all across the globe, if not already torn apart by your own posts. This is nothing more than a private agenda A second tier is the end of football. Bye bye everything we worked hard on I'll refrain from calling you a stupid invertebrate, so instead i'll take downyour points one by one. "In 2003, as Frank Lowy contemplated what life might be like running his beloved game, he looked at the finances of the organisation he inherited. What he saw was not a pretty sight, a few hundred thousand dollars rattling around inside the piggy bank.... ...Speaking as the game's potential saviour, so perceived by the prime minister, he told Howard he needed $15 million, not a cent less. Howard instructed the managers of government sports funding, the Sports Commission, to take care of it." http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/blog/2017/06/02/league-deadlock-calls-government-helpNo W-League. No Matilda's. No Socceroos. $15 million for the A-League. The other delicate fact is without the A-league post 2006 there would be no Socceroos, no Joeys, no Olyroos, no Matilda's, no W-League. Its not the other way around. What happens overseas is irrelevant. The spectator market for football here is very different. End of. There's clearly a market for pro/rel when there are people calling for it. Who is calling for it?
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aussie scott21
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x‘16 groups of new fans ‘That’s 16x0 equals 0There are no fans that can come from this BS league.Everyone has already jumped ship — ask the Hellas bitters - 99% have gone to MVThe 1% that remain that’s 20 people pollute this forum with BS daily as per this stupid topic Effectively the number of people who paid a ridiculous fee to play the game in Victoria for "tin pot unsupported nothing clubs" equates to those who bothered to watch the Sydney derby, the A League's biggest game, nationally and free across metro Australia And that's those who play in a state dominated by the AFL and Aussie rules grounds, let alone NSW where the fucking game was being played The A League metrics are so low I cant believe you would actually come here to boast about them. A game with a TV deal 13% the size of the AFL, a salary cap 1/3 of the size, crowds 1/3 of the size...And the numbers continue to drop But that's OK, because it is fairing better than leagues with no money and no interest Keep on comparing your dick to a belly button I actually don't even get your point. The league is barely a decade old. Its up against a league that has some of he oldest clubs in the world of any code. In tht time it has achieved crowds 1/ 3 the size Its delusion to think that all these disparate State Clubs are suddenly going to create a league that challenges the AFL for TV dollars, and attendances. Football in this country is what is: Today's Melbournes Age has 8 stories about AFL on its homepage. Football has one on Ange and one on the Euro leagues. Its their off-season FFS. The VFL, formerly VFA, is older than the AFL yet it doesn't have a $2.5b TV deal. Its a barely watched league that some people mistake for a second division This isn't a time issue like some people here think. If it was then why did we reset the counter after nearly 30 years with the NSL? Surely you believe that we were almost 1/3 of the way towards 30k averages and a $2.5b TV deal??? In contrast the BBL, which plays a form of a game barely older than the A League (let alone the code) is getting ratings, attendances and money our game can only dream of My point wasn't that football is going to challenge the AFL any time soon. My point was this metrics obsessed dribble is out of context. The A League has failed as a commercial product. In the last 5 years the FFA have thrown everything at crowds and ratings to rescue the only two parts of the game they care about and we have seen a slide Football is what it is, as you said. No clean air. No mainstream media interest. Just a base of rusted on fans that want to see a professional competitive league What idiots here don't seem to understand is a 2nd tier and a 1st tier are two sides of the same coinSure we can have 20 teams in a single division. Give clubs 19 and 20 the same resources as clubs 1 and 2. Give them the same TV opportunities, sponsorship opportunities, and access to the same players. Imagine a business where everybody got paid the same. Where the CEO doesn't get a company car and a mobile phone unless there are resources to ensure the janitor does also I would have thought a prerequisite to a professional league would be some kind of economic realityMakes more sense to split the 20 teams into a 12 and 8 conference. One conference has more money and more sponsorship opportunities. They also have better players and prime TV spots. The second conference which features teams 19 and 20 play in smaller venues, have less money from a central pool, and don't have the best players. In other words they only have what they need - a broom, a mop, and a closet to put it in. If they want more they can climb the "corporate chain". Invest more, get more The muppets here who are so opposed to a second tier structure either think: . Anything spent on more than 10 teams is a waste of money . It is better to spend $8m on 2 clubs at the bottom of the table than $8m on 8 clubs at the bottom of the table Its not just greed and self interest holding our game back. But also stupidity Football is what it is, as you said. We either accept that and work within our limitations to get the best of our game. Or we wait 90 years and we will magically have our answer. Didn't work for the VFL. Didn't work for the NSL. But got a good feeling about this one... The problem with your argument is that in the BBL, and the AFL there is DEMAND from the public. They WILL pay to watch live. They will buy pay TV subs. They will tune to FTA. Cricket and Aussie Rules predate Australia as a federation. These sports are entrenched in the Aussie culture. And they get watch the best in the world. IF there was a public and commercial demand for a national second division, what you say makes sense. But there isn't. Its just the clubs and Federations. The A-league is going backwards for the same reason- its not meeting the needs of the fans: extra teams, new players, bigger names. If you want cheap DVDs or Games go to BigW The reason why they can do this is by a magical economic thing called product lines. People shop at BigW to get a range of stuff which the owners make money from, and they can afford to cut the cost of electronics because one pays for the other. If BigW ditched electronics then they'll lose customers Football, without a W League, youth league, FFA cup, state feds, national youth and womens teams would be fucked. Football as just the A League and just the Socceroos would be a paradox because neither would have the same commercial value they have without the other 80% non profitable side of the game giving it interest This is why the AFL can afford to have the AFLW and a VicKick program. This is why they can afford to fund football in other countries. You think those Mozambique leagues are paying for themselves? The AFL, BBL and other leagues all have additional leagues such as womens, youth etc... which will never have enough funding to stand on its own feet The argument here seems to be we can do everything except for a second division, even though as I have stated it is merely a different conference to the first tier I'm glad you're not in charge of football in this country because you'd cull everything that isn't of commercial interest. I'd hate to think what it would be like if we lost funding for Futsal... The W_league and Matilda's are politically-correct imposts of doing business in today's 'modern and equality driven " world. Explain why without the W-League, the Matilda's and the FFA Cup, the A-League and Socceroos would be fucked? And Futsal-Tom Rogic aside-please. Good one. You really are an intelligent individual aren't you. No wonder every one of your posts reminds me of the anti gay marriage ads If football was just the A League and the Socceroos you wouldn't have hundreds of thousands of people playing it each week. You wouldn't have government funding and you'd barely have mainstream interest Not only that but you are forgetting a delicate little fact: If it wasn't for the Socceroos there would be no A League. Full stop. End of discussion Take away macro economics theory and you end up with a Socceroos with mild mainstream interest, and no funding or support for any other level of the game. You end up with exactly what we had before And explain to me why your precious "everybody for themselves" model conveniently has MV and SFC paying for the other clubs You don't have an argument. You cant even present a valid consistent viewpoint that isn't destroyed by thousands of precedents across thousands of leagues all across the globe, if not already torn apart by your own posts. This is nothing more than a private agenda A second tier is the end of football. Bye bye everything we worked hard on I'll refrain from calling you a stupid invertebrate, so instead i'll take downyour points one by one. "In 2003, as Frank Lowy contemplated what life might be like running his beloved game, he looked at the finances of the organisation he inherited. What he saw was not a pretty sight, a few hundred thousand dollars rattling around inside the piggy bank.... ...Speaking as the game's potential saviour, so perceived by the prime minister, he told Howard he needed $15 million, not a cent less. Howard instructed the managers of government sports funding, the Sports Commission, to take care of it." http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/blog/2017/06/02/league-deadlock-calls-government-helpNo W-League. No Matilda's. No Socceroos. $15 million for the A-League. The other delicate fact is without the A-league post 2006 there would be no Socceroos, no Joeys, no Olyroos, no Matilda's, no W-League. Its not the other way around. What happens overseas is irrelevant. The spectator market for football here is very different. End of. There's clearly a market for pro/rel when there are people calling for it. 
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BA81
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.9K,
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+xFrank Lowy saved our beautiful game2004 was a massive year No more Hellas No more NSL No more Oceania😀👍🏻✅😊⚽️👏 
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theFOOTBALLlover
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.4K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x‘16 groups of new fans ‘That’s 16x0 equals 0There are no fans that can come from this BS league.Everyone has already jumped ship — ask the Hellas bitters - 99% have gone to MVThe 1% that remain that’s 20 people pollute this forum with BS daily as per this stupid topic Effectively the number of people who paid a ridiculous fee to play the game in Victoria for "tin pot unsupported nothing clubs" equates to those who bothered to watch the Sydney derby, the A League's biggest game, nationally and free across metro Australia And that's those who play in a state dominated by the AFL and Aussie rules grounds, let alone NSW where the fucking game was being played The A League metrics are so low I cant believe you would actually come here to boast about them. A game with a TV deal 13% the size of the AFL, a salary cap 1/3 of the size, crowds 1/3 of the size...And the numbers continue to drop But that's OK, because it is fairing better than leagues with no money and no interest Keep on comparing your dick to a belly button I actually don't even get your point. The league is barely a decade old. Its up against a league that has some of he oldest clubs in the world of any code. In tht time it has achieved crowds 1/ 3 the size Its delusion to think that all these disparate State Clubs are suddenly going to create a league that challenges the AFL for TV dollars, and attendances. Football in this country is what is: Today's Melbournes Age has 8 stories about AFL on its homepage. Football has one on Ange and one on the Euro leagues. Its their off-season FFS. The VFL, formerly VFA, is older than the AFL yet it doesn't have a $2.5b TV deal. Its a barely watched league that some people mistake for a second division This isn't a time issue like some people here think. If it was then why did we reset the counter after nearly 30 years with the NSL? Surely you believe that we were almost 1/3 of the way towards 30k averages and a $2.5b TV deal??? In contrast the BBL, which plays a form of a game barely older than the A League (let alone the code) is getting ratings, attendances and money our game can only dream of My point wasn't that football is going to challenge the AFL any time soon. My point was this metrics obsessed dribble is out of context. The A League has failed as a commercial product. In the last 5 years the FFA have thrown everything at crowds and ratings to rescue the only two parts of the game they care about and we have seen a slide Football is what it is, as you said. No clean air. No mainstream media interest. Just a base of rusted on fans that want to see a professional competitive league What idiots here don't seem to understand is a 2nd tier and a 1st tier are two sides of the same coinSure we can have 20 teams in a single division. Give clubs 19 and 20 the same resources as clubs 1 and 2. Give them the same TV opportunities, sponsorship opportunities, and access to the same players. Imagine a business where everybody got paid the same. Where the CEO doesn't get a company car and a mobile phone unless there are resources to ensure the janitor does also I would have thought a prerequisite to a professional league would be some kind of economic realityMakes more sense to split the 20 teams into a 12 and 8 conference. One conference has more money and more sponsorship opportunities. They also have better players and prime TV spots. The second conference which features teams 19 and 20 play in smaller venues, have less money from a central pool, and don't have the best players. In other words they only have what they need - a broom, a mop, and a closet to put it in. If they want more they can climb the "corporate chain". Invest more, get more The muppets here who are so opposed to a second tier structure either think: . Anything spent on more than 10 teams is a waste of money . It is better to spend $8m on 2 clubs at the bottom of the table than $8m on 8 clubs at the bottom of the table Its not just greed and self interest holding our game back. But also stupidity Football is what it is, as you said. We either accept that and work within our limitations to get the best of our game. Or we wait 90 years and we will magically have our answer. Didn't work for the VFL. Didn't work for the NSL. But got a good feeling about this one... The problem with your argument is that in the BBL, and the AFL there is DEMAND from the public. They WILL pay to watch live. They will buy pay TV subs. They will tune to FTA. Cricket and Aussie Rules predate Australia as a federation. These sports are entrenched in the Aussie culture. And they get watch the best in the world. IF there was a public and commercial demand for a national second division, what you say makes sense. But there isn't. Its just the clubs and Federations. The A-league is going backwards for the same reason- its not meeting the needs of the fans: extra teams, new players, bigger names. If you want cheap DVDs or Games go to BigW The reason why they can do this is by a magical economic thing called product lines. People shop at BigW to get a range of stuff which the owners make money from, and they can afford to cut the cost of electronics because one pays for the other. If BigW ditched electronics then they'll lose customers Football, without a W League, youth league, FFA cup, state feds, national youth and womens teams would be fucked. Football as just the A League and just the Socceroos would be a paradox because neither would have the same commercial value they have without the other 80% non profitable side of the game giving it interest This is why the AFL can afford to have the AFLW and a VicKick program. This is why they can afford to fund football in other countries. You think those Mozambique leagues are paying for themselves? The AFL, BBL and other leagues all have additional leagues such as womens, youth etc... which will never have enough funding to stand on its own feet The argument here seems to be we can do everything except for a second division, even though as I have stated it is merely a different conference to the first tier I'm glad you're not in charge of football in this country because you'd cull everything that isn't of commercial interest. I'd hate to think what it would be like if we lost funding for Futsal... The W_league and Matilda's are politically-correct imposts of doing business in today's 'modern and equality driven " world. Explain why without the W-League, the Matilda's and the FFA Cup, the A-League and Socceroos would be fucked? And Futsal-Tom Rogic aside-please. Good one. You really are an intelligent individual aren't you. No wonder every one of your posts reminds me of the anti gay marriage ads If football was just the A League and the Socceroos you wouldn't have hundreds of thousands of people playing it each week. You wouldn't have government funding and you'd barely have mainstream interest Not only that but you are forgetting a delicate little fact: If it wasn't for the Socceroos there would be no A League. Full stop. End of discussion Take away macro economics theory and you end up with a Socceroos with mild mainstream interest, and no funding or support for any other level of the game. You end up with exactly what we had before And explain to me why your precious "everybody for themselves" model conveniently has MV and SFC paying for the other clubs You don't have an argument. You cant even present a valid consistent viewpoint that isn't destroyed by thousands of precedents across thousands of leagues all across the globe, if not already torn apart by your own posts. This is nothing more than a private agenda A second tier is the end of football. Bye bye everything we worked hard on I'll refrain from calling you a stupid invertebrate, so instead i'll take downyour points one by one. "In 2003, as Frank Lowy contemplated what life might be like running his beloved game, he looked at the finances of the organisation he inherited. What he saw was not a pretty sight, a few hundred thousand dollars rattling around inside the piggy bank.... ...Speaking as the game's potential saviour, so perceived by the prime minister, he told Howard he needed $15 million, not a cent less. Howard instructed the managers of government sports funding, the Sports Commission, to take care of it." http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/blog/2017/06/02/league-deadlock-calls-government-helpNo W-League. No Matilda's. No Socceroos. $15 million for the A-League. The other delicate fact is without the A-league post 2006 there would be no Socceroos, no Joeys, no Olyroos, no Matilda's, no W-League. Its not the other way around. What happens overseas is irrelevant. The spectator market for football here is very different. End of. There's clearly a market for pro/rel when there are people calling for it.
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Roberts1
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 246,
Visits: 0
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Frank Lowy saved our beautiful game
2004 was a massive year
No more Hellas
No more NSL
No more Oceania
😀👍🏻✅😊⚽️👏
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Billy the Fish
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 62,
Visits: 0
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+x‘3 Year’s tops’Bull shit — this rubbish will never start up Without Promotion it'll probably die and HAL will be able to do as it pleases for at least another generation I'm surprised you're not advocating it TBH
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x‘16 groups of new fans ‘That’s 16x0 equals 0There are no fans that can come from this BS league.Everyone has already jumped ship — ask the Hellas bitters - 99% have gone to MVThe 1% that remain that’s 20 people pollute this forum with BS daily as per this stupid topic Effectively the number of people who paid a ridiculous fee to play the game in Victoria for "tin pot unsupported nothing clubs" equates to those who bothered to watch the Sydney derby, the A League's biggest game, nationally and free across metro Australia And that's those who play in a state dominated by the AFL and Aussie rules grounds, let alone NSW where the fucking game was being played The A League metrics are so low I cant believe you would actually come here to boast about them. A game with a TV deal 13% the size of the AFL, a salary cap 1/3 of the size, crowds 1/3 of the size...And the numbers continue to drop But that's OK, because it is fairing better than leagues with no money and no interest Keep on comparing your dick to a belly button I actually don't even get your point. The league is barely a decade old. Its up against a league that has some of he oldest clubs in the world of any code. In tht time it has achieved crowds 1/ 3 the size Its delusion to think that all these disparate State Clubs are suddenly going to create a league that challenges the AFL for TV dollars, and attendances. Football in this country is what is: Today's Melbournes Age has 8 stories about AFL on its homepage. Football has one on Ange and one on the Euro leagues. Its their off-season FFS. The VFL, formerly VFA, is older than the AFL yet it doesn't have a $2.5b TV deal. Its a barely watched league that some people mistake for a second division This isn't a time issue like some people here think. If it was then why did we reset the counter after nearly 30 years with the NSL? Surely you believe that we were almost 1/3 of the way towards 30k averages and a $2.5b TV deal??? In contrast the BBL, which plays a form of a game barely older than the A League (let alone the code) is getting ratings, attendances and money our game can only dream of My point wasn't that football is going to challenge the AFL any time soon. My point was this metrics obsessed dribble is out of context. The A League has failed as a commercial product. In the last 5 years the FFA have thrown everything at crowds and ratings to rescue the only two parts of the game they care about and we have seen a slide Football is what it is, as you said. No clean air. No mainstream media interest. Just a base of rusted on fans that want to see a professional competitive league What idiots here don't seem to understand is a 2nd tier and a 1st tier are two sides of the same coinSure we can have 20 teams in a single division. Give clubs 19 and 20 the same resources as clubs 1 and 2. Give them the same TV opportunities, sponsorship opportunities, and access to the same players. Imagine a business where everybody got paid the same. Where the CEO doesn't get a company car and a mobile phone unless there are resources to ensure the janitor does also I would have thought a prerequisite to a professional league would be some kind of economic realityMakes more sense to split the 20 teams into a 12 and 8 conference. One conference has more money and more sponsorship opportunities. They also have better players and prime TV spots. The second conference which features teams 19 and 20 play in smaller venues, have less money from a central pool, and don't have the best players. In other words they only have what they need - a broom, a mop, and a closet to put it in. If they want more they can climb the "corporate chain". Invest more, get more The muppets here who are so opposed to a second tier structure either think: . Anything spent on more than 10 teams is a waste of money . It is better to spend $8m on 2 clubs at the bottom of the table than $8m on 8 clubs at the bottom of the table Its not just greed and self interest holding our game back. But also stupidity Football is what it is, as you said. We either accept that and work within our limitations to get the best of our game. Or we wait 90 years and we will magically have our answer. Didn't work for the VFL. Didn't work for the NSL. But got a good feeling about this one... The problem with your argument is that in the BBL, and the AFL there is DEMAND from the public. They WILL pay to watch live. They will buy pay TV subs. They will tune to FTA. Cricket and Aussie Rules predate Australia as a federation. These sports are entrenched in the Aussie culture. And they get watch the best in the world. IF there was a public and commercial demand for a national second division, what you say makes sense. But there isn't. Its just the clubs and Federations. The A-league is going backwards for the same reason- its not meeting the needs of the fans: extra teams, new players, bigger names. why are you so concerned with whether its professional or not. someone here talked about the ice hockey national league. if ice hockey can have a national league football can have a 2nd division. Full stop. We could have a second division with what clubs already spend easily. These leagues (BBL, AFL) you're talking about aren't just professional, they're enormously lucrative. Players get payed millions. Thats not this. If there will be professionals in 2nd div they'll be getting 45k not millions. None of these arguments against a 2nd div hold up to any scrutiny. Are you serious? Professional means getting paid to play. " AIHL players are amateurs. Players are not paid to play in the AIHL, but receive other benefits such as the use of a car, and accommodation during the season." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Ice_Hockey_LeagueThe guys in the State leagues are getting paid circa $1000 each per week. On top of their day jobs. In a national second tier, do you think they will demand a) less b) more c) the same. Yes I'm serious. Professional means getting paid enough to play without having another job. I don't understand your point in the slightest. Don't you understand that players WANT a second division, that they WANT to play in it. Even keeping exactly the same income, any ambitious young player would jump at the chance to play on the national stage. You really think clubs would have trouble finding players??? I'm not saying clubs and the players can't be professional, on the cash NPL clubs are paying NOW many players could quit their day. What I'm saying is there is no reason they have to be. The players DO NOT DECIDE IF THE LEAGUE IS SUSTAINABLE. The fans and sponsors who pay to watch do
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x‘16 groups of new fans ‘That’s 16x0 equals 0There are no fans that can come from this BS league.Everyone has already jumped ship — ask the Hellas bitters - 99% have gone to MVThe 1% that remain that’s 20 people pollute this forum with BS daily as per this stupid topic Effectively the number of people who paid a ridiculous fee to play the game in Victoria for "tin pot unsupported nothing clubs" equates to those who bothered to watch the Sydney derby, the A League's biggest game, nationally and free across metro Australia And that's those who play in a state dominated by the AFL and Aussie rules grounds, let alone NSW where the fucking game was being played The A League metrics are so low I cant believe you would actually come here to boast about them. A game with a TV deal 13% the size of the AFL, a salary cap 1/3 of the size, crowds 1/3 of the size...And the numbers continue to drop But that's OK, because it is fairing better than leagues with no money and no interest Keep on comparing your dick to a belly button I actually don't even get your point. The league is barely a decade old. Its up against a league that has some of he oldest clubs in the world of any code. In tht time it has achieved crowds 1/ 3 the size Its delusion to think that all these disparate State Clubs are suddenly going to create a league that challenges the AFL for TV dollars, and attendances. Football in this country is what is: Today's Melbournes Age has 8 stories about AFL on its homepage. Football has one on Ange and one on the Euro leagues. Its their off-season FFS. The VFL, formerly VFA, is older than the AFL yet it doesn't have a $2.5b TV deal. Its a barely watched league that some people mistake for a second division This isn't a time issue like some people here think. If it was then why did we reset the counter after nearly 30 years with the NSL? Surely you believe that we were almost 1/3 of the way towards 30k averages and a $2.5b TV deal??? In contrast the BBL, which plays a form of a game barely older than the A League (let alone the code) is getting ratings, attendances and money our game can only dream of My point wasn't that football is going to challenge the AFL any time soon. My point was this metrics obsessed dribble is out of context. The A League has failed as a commercial product. In the last 5 years the FFA have thrown everything at crowds and ratings to rescue the only two parts of the game they care about and we have seen a slide Football is what it is, as you said. No clean air. No mainstream media interest. Just a base of rusted on fans that want to see a professional competitive league What idiots here don't seem to understand is a 2nd tier and a 1st tier are two sides of the same coinSure we can have 20 teams in a single division. Give clubs 19 and 20 the same resources as clubs 1 and 2. Give them the same TV opportunities, sponsorship opportunities, and access to the same players. Imagine a business where everybody got paid the same. Where the CEO doesn't get a company car and a mobile phone unless there are resources to ensure the janitor does also I would have thought a prerequisite to a professional league would be some kind of economic realityMakes more sense to split the 20 teams into a 12 and 8 conference. One conference has more money and more sponsorship opportunities. They also have better players and prime TV spots. The second conference which features teams 19 and 20 play in smaller venues, have less money from a central pool, and don't have the best players. In other words they only have what they need - a broom, a mop, and a closet to put it in. If they want more they can climb the "corporate chain". Invest more, get more The muppets here who are so opposed to a second tier structure either think: . Anything spent on more than 10 teams is a waste of money . It is better to spend $8m on 2 clubs at the bottom of the table than $8m on 8 clubs at the bottom of the table Its not just greed and self interest holding our game back. But also stupidity Football is what it is, as you said. We either accept that and work within our limitations to get the best of our game. Or we wait 90 years and we will magically have our answer. Didn't work for the VFL. Didn't work for the NSL. But got a good feeling about this one... The problem with your argument is that in the BBL, and the AFL there is DEMAND from the public. They WILL pay to watch live. They will buy pay TV subs. They will tune to FTA. Cricket and Aussie Rules predate Australia as a federation. These sports are entrenched in the Aussie culture. And they get watch the best in the world. IF there was a public and commercial demand for a national second division, what you say makes sense. But there isn't. Its just the clubs and Federations. The A-league is going backwards for the same reason- its not meeting the needs of the fans: extra teams, new players, bigger names. If you want cheap DVDs or Games go to BigW The reason why they can do this is by a magical economic thing called product lines. People shop at BigW to get a range of stuff which the owners make money from, and they can afford to cut the cost of electronics because one pays for the other. If BigW ditched electronics then they'll lose customers Football, without a W League, youth league, FFA cup, state feds, national youth and womens teams would be fucked. Football as just the A League and just the Socceroos would be a paradox because neither would have the same commercial value they have without the other 80% non profitable side of the game giving it interest This is why the AFL can afford to have the AFLW and a VicKick program. This is why they can afford to fund football in other countries. You think those Mozambique leagues are paying for themselves? The AFL, BBL and other leagues all have additional leagues such as womens, youth etc... which will never have enough funding to stand on its own feet The argument here seems to be we can do everything except for a second division, even though as I have stated it is merely a different conference to the first tier I'm glad you're not in charge of football in this country because you'd cull everything that isn't of commercial interest. I'd hate to think what it would be like if we lost funding for Futsal... The W_league and Matilda's are politically-correct imposts of doing business in today's 'modern and equality driven " world. Explain why without the W-League, the Matilda's and the FFA Cup, the A-League and Socceroos would be fucked? And Futsal-Tom Rogic aside-please. Good one. You really are an intelligent individual aren't you. No wonder every one of your posts reminds me of the anti gay marriage ads If football was just the A League and the Socceroos you wouldn't have hundreds of thousands of people playing it each week. You wouldn't have government funding and you'd barely have mainstream interest Not only that but you are forgetting a delicate little fact: If it wasn't for the Socceroos there would be no A League. Full stop. End of discussion Take away macro economics theory and you end up with a Socceroos with mild mainstream interest, and no funding or support for any other level of the game. You end up with exactly what we had before And explain to me why your precious "everybody for themselves" model conveniently has MV and SFC paying for the other clubs You don't have an argument. You cant even present a valid consistent viewpoint that isn't destroyed by thousands of precedents across thousands of leagues all across the globe, if not already torn apart by your own posts. This is nothing more than a private agenda A second tier is the end of football. Bye bye everything we worked hard on I'll refrain from calling you a stupid invertebrate, so instead i'll take downyour points one by one. "In 2003, as Frank Lowy contemplated what life might be like running his beloved game, he looked at the finances of the organisation he inherited. What he saw was not a pretty sight, a few hundred thousand dollars rattling around inside the piggy bank.... ...Speaking as the game's potential saviour, so perceived by the prime minister, he told Howard he needed $15 million, not a cent less. Howard instructed the managers of government sports funding, the Sports Commission, to take care of it." http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/blog/2017/06/02/league-deadlock-calls-government-helpNo W-League. No Matilda's. No Socceroos. $15 million for the A-League. The other delicate fact is without the A-league post 2006 there would be no Socceroos, no Joeys, no Olyroos, no Matilda's, no W-League. Its not the other way around. What happens overseas is irrelevant. The spectator market for football here is very different. End of.
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Roberts1
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 246,
Visits: 0
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‘3 Year’s tops’
Bull shit — this rubbish will never start up
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Billy the Fish
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 62,
Visits: 0
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The Fans
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
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+xNPL clubs are regulated to have 1 team per age group meaning around low to mid 200s What? You mean 1 team per age group in the NPL right? I'm not from Melbourne but these clubs all have heaps of teams in the age groups outside of the NPL structure surely?
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The Fans
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.6K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x‘16 groups of new fans ‘That’s 16x0 equals 0There are no fans that can come from this BS league.Everyone has already jumped ship — ask the Hellas bitters - 99% have gone to MVThe 1% that remain that’s 20 people pollute this forum with BS daily as per this stupid topic Effectively the number of people who paid a ridiculous fee to play the game in Victoria for "tin pot unsupported nothing clubs" equates to those who bothered to watch the Sydney derby, the A League's biggest game, nationally and free across metro Australia And that's those who play in a state dominated by the AFL and Aussie rules grounds, let alone NSW where the fucking game was being played The A League metrics are so low I cant believe you would actually come here to boast about them. A game with a TV deal 13% the size of the AFL, a salary cap 1/3 of the size, crowds 1/3 of the size...And the numbers continue to drop But that's OK, because it is fairing better than leagues with no money and no interest Keep on comparing your dick to a belly button I actually don't even get your point. The league is barely a decade old. Its up against a league that has some of he oldest clubs in the world of any code. In tht time it has achieved crowds 1/ 3 the size Its delusion to think that all these disparate State Clubs are suddenly going to create a league that challenges the AFL for TV dollars, and attendances. Football in this country is what is: Today's Melbournes Age has 8 stories about AFL on its homepage. Football has one on Ange and one on the Euro leagues. Its their off-season FFS. The VFL, formerly VFA, is older than the AFL yet it doesn't have a $2.5b TV deal. Its a barely watched league that some people mistake for a second division This isn't a time issue like some people here think. If it was then why did we reset the counter after nearly 30 years with the NSL? Surely you believe that we were almost 1/3 of the way towards 30k averages and a $2.5b TV deal??? In contrast the BBL, which plays a form of a game barely older than the A League (let alone the code) is getting ratings, attendances and money our game can only dream of My point wasn't that football is going to challenge the AFL any time soon. My point was this metrics obsessed dribble is out of context. The A League has failed as a commercial product. In the last 5 years the FFA have thrown everything at crowds and ratings to rescue the only two parts of the game they care about and we have seen a slide Football is what it is, as you said. No clean air. No mainstream media interest. Just a base of rusted on fans that want to see a professional competitive league What idiots here don't seem to understand is a 2nd tier and a 1st tier are two sides of the same coinSure we can have 20 teams in a single division. Give clubs 19 and 20 the same resources as clubs 1 and 2. Give them the same TV opportunities, sponsorship opportunities, and access to the same players. Imagine a business where everybody got paid the same. Where the CEO doesn't get a company car and a mobile phone unless there are resources to ensure the janitor does also I would have thought a prerequisite to a professional league would be some kind of economic realityMakes more sense to split the 20 teams into a 12 and 8 conference. One conference has more money and more sponsorship opportunities. They also have better players and prime TV spots. The second conference which features teams 19 and 20 play in smaller venues, have less money from a central pool, and don't have the best players. In other words they only have what they need - a broom, a mop, and a closet to put it in. If they want more they can climb the "corporate chain". Invest more, get more The muppets here who are so opposed to a second tier structure either think: . Anything spent on more than 10 teams is a waste of money . It is better to spend $8m on 2 clubs at the bottom of the table than $8m on 8 clubs at the bottom of the table Its not just greed and self interest holding our game back. But also stupidity Football is what it is, as you said. We either accept that and work within our limitations to get the best of our game. Or we wait 90 years and we will magically have our answer. Didn't work for the VFL. Didn't work for the NSL. But got a good feeling about this one... The problem with your argument is that in the BBL, and the AFL there is DEMAND from the public. They WILL pay to watch live. They will buy pay TV subs. They will tune to FTA. Cricket and Aussie Rules predate Australia as a federation. These sports are entrenched in the Aussie culture. And they get watch the best in the world. IF there was a public and commercial demand for a national second division, what you say makes sense. But there isn't. Its just the clubs and Federations. The A-league is going backwards for the same reason- its not meeting the needs of the fans: extra teams, new players, bigger names. why are you so concerned with whether its professional or not. someone here talked about the ice hockey national league. if ice hockey can have a national league football can have a 2nd division. Full stop. We could have a second division with what clubs already spend easily. These leagues (BBL, AFL) you're talking about aren't just professional, they're enormously lucrative. Players get payed millions. Thats not this. If there will be professionals in 2nd div they'll be getting 45k not millions. None of these arguments against a 2nd div hold up to any scrutiny. Are you serious? Professional means getting paid to play. " AIHL players are amateurs. Players are not paid to play in the AIHL, but receive other benefits such as the use of a car, and accommodation during the season." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Ice_Hockey_LeagueThe guys in the State leagues are getting paid circa $1000 each per week. On top of their day jobs. In a national second tier, do you think they will demand a) less b) more c) the same. Yes I'm serious. Professional means getting paid enough to play without having another job. I don't understand your point in the slightest. Don't you understand that players WANT a second division, that they WANT to play in it. Even keeping exactly the same income, any ambitious young player would jump at the chance to play on the national stage. You really think clubs would have trouble finding players??? I'm not saying clubs and the players can't be professional, on the cash NPL clubs are paying NOW many players could quit their day. What I'm saying is there is no reason they have to be.
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bluebird
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x‘16 groups of new fans ‘That’s 16x0 equals 0There are no fans that can come from this BS league.Everyone has already jumped ship — ask the Hellas bitters - 99% have gone to MVThe 1% that remain that’s 20 people pollute this forum with BS daily as per this stupid topic Effectively the number of people who paid a ridiculous fee to play the game in Victoria for "tin pot unsupported nothing clubs" equates to those who bothered to watch the Sydney derby, the A League's biggest game, nationally and free across metro Australia And that's those who play in a state dominated by the AFL and Aussie rules grounds, let alone NSW where the fucking game was being played The A League metrics are so low I cant believe you would actually come here to boast about them. A game with a TV deal 13% the size of the AFL, a salary cap 1/3 of the size, crowds 1/3 of the size...And the numbers continue to drop But that's OK, because it is fairing better than leagues with no money and no interest Keep on comparing your dick to a belly button I actually don't even get your point. The league is barely a decade old. Its up against a league that has some of he oldest clubs in the world of any code. In tht time it has achieved crowds 1/ 3 the size Its delusion to think that all these disparate State Clubs are suddenly going to create a league that challenges the AFL for TV dollars, and attendances. Football in this country is what is: Today's Melbournes Age has 8 stories about AFL on its homepage. Football has one on Ange and one on the Euro leagues. Its their off-season FFS. The VFL, formerly VFA, is older than the AFL yet it doesn't have a $2.5b TV deal. Its a barely watched league that some people mistake for a second division This isn't a time issue like some people here think. If it was then why did we reset the counter after nearly 30 years with the NSL? Surely you believe that we were almost 1/3 of the way towards 30k averages and a $2.5b TV deal??? In contrast the BBL, which plays a form of a game barely older than the A League (let alone the code) is getting ratings, attendances and money our game can only dream of My point wasn't that football is going to challenge the AFL any time soon. My point was this metrics obsessed dribble is out of context. The A League has failed as a commercial product. In the last 5 years the FFA have thrown everything at crowds and ratings to rescue the only two parts of the game they care about and we have seen a slide Football is what it is, as you said. No clean air. No mainstream media interest. Just a base of rusted on fans that want to see a professional competitive league What idiots here don't seem to understand is a 2nd tier and a 1st tier are two sides of the same coinSure we can have 20 teams in a single division. Give clubs 19 and 20 the same resources as clubs 1 and 2. Give them the same TV opportunities, sponsorship opportunities, and access to the same players. Imagine a business where everybody got paid the same. Where the CEO doesn't get a company car and a mobile phone unless there are resources to ensure the janitor does also I would have thought a prerequisite to a professional league would be some kind of economic realityMakes more sense to split the 20 teams into a 12 and 8 conference. One conference has more money and more sponsorship opportunities. They also have better players and prime TV spots. The second conference which features teams 19 and 20 play in smaller venues, have less money from a central pool, and don't have the best players. In other words they only have what they need - a broom, a mop, and a closet to put it in. If they want more they can climb the "corporate chain". Invest more, get more The muppets here who are so opposed to a second tier structure either think: . Anything spent on more than 10 teams is a waste of money . It is better to spend $8m on 2 clubs at the bottom of the table than $8m on 8 clubs at the bottom of the table Its not just greed and self interest holding our game back. But also stupidity Football is what it is, as you said. We either accept that and work within our limitations to get the best of our game. Or we wait 90 years and we will magically have our answer. Didn't work for the VFL. Didn't work for the NSL. But got a good feeling about this one... The problem with your argument is that in the BBL, and the AFL there is DEMAND from the public. They WILL pay to watch live. They will buy pay TV subs. They will tune to FTA. Cricket and Aussie Rules predate Australia as a federation. These sports are entrenched in the Aussie culture. And they get watch the best in the world. IF there was a public and commercial demand for a national second division, what you say makes sense. But there isn't. Its just the clubs and Federations. The A-league is going backwards for the same reason- its not meeting the needs of the fans: extra teams, new players, bigger names. If you want cheap DVDs or Games go to BigW The reason why they can do this is by a magical economic thing called product lines. People shop at BigW to get a range of stuff which the owners make money from, and they can afford to cut the cost of electronics because one pays for the other. If BigW ditched electronics then they'll lose customers Football, without a W League, youth league, FFA cup, state feds, national youth and womens teams would be fucked. Football as just the A League and just the Socceroos would be a paradox because neither would have the same commercial value they have without the other 80% non profitable side of the game giving it interest This is why the AFL can afford to have the AFLW and a VicKick program. This is why they can afford to fund football in other countries. You think those Mozambique leagues are paying for themselves? The AFL, BBL and other leagues all have additional leagues such as womens, youth etc... which will never have enough funding to stand on its own feet The argument here seems to be we can do everything except for a second division, even though as I have stated it is merely a different conference to the first tier I'm glad you're not in charge of football in this country because you'd cull everything that isn't of commercial interest. I'd hate to think what it would be like if we lost funding for Futsal... The W_league and Matilda's are politically-correct imposts of doing business in today's 'modern and equality driven " world. Explain why without the W-League, the Matilda's and the FFA Cup, the A-League and Socceroos would be fucked? And Futsal-Tom Rogic aside-please. Good one. You really are an intelligent individual aren't you. No wonder every one of your posts reminds me of the anti gay marriage ads If football was just the A League and the Socceroos you wouldn't have hundreds of thousands of people playing it each week. You wouldn't have government funding and you'd barely have mainstream interest Not only that but you are forgetting a delicate little fact: If it wasn't for the Socceroos there would be no A League. Full stop. End of discussion Take away macro economics theory and you end up with a Socceroos with mild mainstream interest, and no funding or support for any other level of the game. You end up with exactly what we had before And explain to me why your precious "everybody for themselves" model conveniently has MV and SFC paying for the other clubs You don't have an argument. You cant even present a valid consistent viewpoint that isn't destroyed by thousands of precedents across thousands of leagues all across the globe, if not already torn apart by your own posts. This is nothing more than a private agenda A second tier is the end of football. Bye bye everything we worked hard on
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chris
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Group: Forum Members
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On the above point In Melbourne NPL clubs are regulated to have 1 team per age group meaning around low to mid 200s Community clubs regularly have over 700 800 and many more hense a far greater reach into their community
Another masterstroke by the FFA and why fees are structured the way they are as you still need to resources
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thewitness
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.1K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x‘16 groups of new fans ‘That’s 16x0 equals 0There are no fans that can come from this BS league.Everyone has already jumped ship — ask the Hellas bitters - 99% have gone to MVThe 1% that remain that’s 20 people pollute this forum with BS daily as per this stupid topic Effectively the number of people who paid a ridiculous fee to play the game in Victoria for "tin pot unsupported nothing clubs" equates to those who bothered to watch the Sydney derby, the A League's biggest game, nationally and free across metro Australia And that's those who play in a state dominated by the AFL and Aussie rules grounds, let alone NSW where the fucking game was being played The A League metrics are so low I cant believe you would actually come here to boast about them. A game with a TV deal 13% the size of the AFL, a salary cap 1/3 of the size, crowds 1/3 of the size...And the numbers continue to drop But that's OK, because it is fairing better than leagues with no money and no interest Keep on comparing your dick to a belly button I actually don't even get your point. The league is barely a decade old. Its up against a league that has some of he oldest clubs in the world of any code. In tht time it has achieved crowds 1/ 3 the size Its delusion to think that all these disparate State Clubs are suddenly going to create a league that challenges the AFL for TV dollars, and attendances. Football in this country is what is: Today's Melbournes Age has 8 stories about AFL on its homepage. Football has one on Ange and one on the Euro leagues. Its their off-season FFS. The VFL, formerly VFA, is older than the AFL yet it doesn't have a $2.5b TV deal. Its a barely watched league that some people mistake for a second division This isn't a time issue like some people here think. If it was then why did we reset the counter after nearly 30 years with the NSL? Surely you believe that we were almost 1/3 of the way towards 30k averages and a $2.5b TV deal??? In contrast the BBL, which plays a form of a game barely older than the A League (let alone the code) is getting ratings, attendances and money our game can only dream of My point wasn't that football is going to challenge the AFL any time soon. My point was this metrics obsessed dribble is out of context. The A League has failed as a commercial product. In the last 5 years the FFA have thrown everything at crowds and ratings to rescue the only two parts of the game they care about and we have seen a slide Football is what it is, as you said. No clean air. No mainstream media interest. Just a base of rusted on fans that want to see a professional competitive league What idiots here don't seem to understand is a 2nd tier and a 1st tier are two sides of the same coinSure we can have 20 teams in a single division. Give clubs 19 and 20 the same resources as clubs 1 and 2. Give them the same TV opportunities, sponsorship opportunities, and access to the same players. Imagine a business where everybody got paid the same. Where the CEO doesn't get a company car and a mobile phone unless there are resources to ensure the janitor does also I would have thought a prerequisite to a professional league would be some kind of economic realityMakes more sense to split the 20 teams into a 12 and 8 conference. One conference has more money and more sponsorship opportunities. They also have better players and prime TV spots. The second conference which features teams 19 and 20 play in smaller venues, have less money from a central pool, and don't have the best players. In other words they only have what they need - a broom, a mop, and a closet to put it in. If they want more they can climb the "corporate chain". Invest more, get more The muppets here who are so opposed to a second tier structure either think: . Anything spent on more than 10 teams is a waste of money . It is better to spend $8m on 2 clubs at the bottom of the table than $8m on 8 clubs at the bottom of the table Its not just greed and self interest holding our game back. But also stupidity Football is what it is, as you said. We either accept that and work within our limitations to get the best of our game. Or we wait 90 years and we will magically have our answer. Didn't work for the VFL. Didn't work for the NSL. But got a good feeling about this one... The problem with your argument is that in the BBL, and the AFL there is DEMAND from the public. They WILL pay to watch live. They will buy pay TV subs. They will tune to FTA. Cricket and Aussie Rules predate Australia as a federation. These sports are entrenched in the Aussie culture. And they get watch the best in the world. IF there was a public and commercial demand for a national second division, what you say makes sense. But there isn't. Its just the clubs and Federations. The A-league is going backwards for the same reason- its not meeting the needs of the fans: extra teams, new players, bigger names. why are you so concerned with whether its professional or not. someone here talked about the ice hockey national league. if ice hockey can have a national league football can have a 2nd division. Full stop. We could have a second division with what clubs already spend easily. These leagues (BBL, AFL) you're talking about aren't just professional, they're enormously lucrative. Players get payed millions. Thats not this. If there will be professionals in 2nd div they'll be getting 45k not millions. None of these arguments against a 2nd div hold up to any scrutiny. Are you serious? Professional means getting paid to play. " AIHL players are amateurs. Players are not paid to play in the AIHL, but receive other benefits such as the use of a car, and accommodation during the season." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Ice_Hockey_LeagueThe guys in the State leagues are getting paid circa $1000 each per week. On top of their day jobs. In a national second tier, do you think they will demand a) less b) more c) the same. I made the original AIHL comparison, it was literally to prove that travel costs involved in a national league are quite small. This was before The Championship model had been proposed along with it's licence fees and required women's teams. The AIHL league teams run on budgets of around $75,000 per year to cover travel, coaching, venue hire and imports living costs, with squad sizes around 25 and usually 4 overseas imports. The AIHL has very little income from sponsorship, media rights and gate takings as attendances are normally in the several hundred range. What I was saying was that to run a semi-professional second tier national league would cost only a little bit more than the bigger NPL clubs are already spending. And the extra costs involved would be more than matched by increased revenues. I was not commenting on players getting a pay rise on current rates.
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chris
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThere isn't demand from enough people who will pay to watch. The clubs individually have unviable fan base numbers.I actually want to see this. It will be fun for about 2 seasons. Then the money problem will rear its head. At that point I hope the FFA just washes it s hands of it and says "We told you so". What you don't understand is the importance of building Football Culture. If we don't develop Football Culture there will be no fans for the A-League. There will be no players of the level we need to build international success. There will not be enough infrastructure to cater for players. If money becomes a problem for a particular Club there will be 10 ready to take their place. No fans for the A-League? What were the 35,000 that turned up to watch a game in Melbourne AFL heartland and Sydney NRL heartland. No fans, please. The reason why the A-league can't turrn players in to fan is because we have a gazillion tin pot clubs, each with a copile of 100 fans all of whom are wrapped up in their tin pot clubs to not give a fig about any other club outside of it, but rock up on Monday with EPL replica shirts. BTW, you mentioned that State clubs pay players $1k per game. For farken what? Being a shit kicker? Its no wonder parents are forking out $1000 in fees when basketball and AFL charge about $150- all these shit kickers need to supplement their weekly wage. And what do parents get for the hundreds of millions that they throwing at State Federations- where are are your players playing as seniors- oh yeah the local tin pot State league club. Its a a Ponzi scheme funded by gullible parents. The A-League cannot be just about Melbourne and Sydney. And Football Culture is about educating the newcomer to the sport how the game should look. That no we don't clap the 11yo who can kick the ball 50 metres. We clap the kid that can dribble past 3 kids or we clap when 2 kids outplay 3 or 4 opponents with inter play. We don't say get rid of it. Pretty expensive lesson. Parents deserve to know where their $1000 dollars go. 100% Victoria NPL 39 week season in NPL 3 sessions per week Cost $2,200 including GST Per session = $18.80 Or do it this way 39 weeks 117 training sessions 30+matches 147 sessions and Games = $14.96 for each one This all because of FFA regulations and its going up and the FFA TD admitted it when he said a 2 star academy will cost upto $600K to operate. with 150 kids in NPL that is $4,000 per head. Whether that is cheap or expensive depends on the outcomes. Right now, it would have to be considered a rip off. $4000 per head is absurd. Do you think Ibrahimovic parents, Xhaka's parents Ozil's parents could afford that kind of money? Hey mate that is all based on FFA regulation. LET ME REPEAT THAT IS ALL DUE TO THE FFA REGULATION OF THE NPL. JUST IN CASE IT DIDN'T SINK IN THE FIRST AND SECOND TIME THE COSTS ARE REFLECTIVE OF FFA REGULATION OF THE NPL. Yes but the NPL clubs can offset those costs through raising income via other methods than simply increasing fees. I would love it if the FFA had the funds to reduce fees for players, but ultimately they don't. So NPL clubs need to be a bit smarter how they do business, if they want to reduce the fees for their players. There is an old saying "if you want it bad enough you'll find a way, otherwise you'll find an excuse" This is part their argument!! Their opportunities to grow income are limited by being in a closed off state league with no chance of ever improving their standing.. Not sure about every state but in WA NPL clubs barely have any "appeal" outside of their members. This has nothing to do with a closed off state league, but everything to do with their community engagement, marketing, interactions within the soccer fraternity. Our local NPL side is pretty much at "war" with the local grass-root clubs. Many local clubs would raise more income in a closed off local amateur leagues because they engage the community better, have better governance and the general values shown by the club are more supported by the sponsors / community. Some NPL clubs do this a lot better than others but blaming the "closed off state league" is just another excuse IMO.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x‘16 groups of new fans ‘That’s 16x0 equals 0There are no fans that can come from this BS league.Everyone has already jumped ship — ask the Hellas bitters - 99% have gone to MVThe 1% that remain that’s 20 people pollute this forum with BS daily as per this stupid topic Effectively the number of people who paid a ridiculous fee to play the game in Victoria for "tin pot unsupported nothing clubs" equates to those who bothered to watch the Sydney derby, the A League's biggest game, nationally and free across metro Australia And that's those who play in a state dominated by the AFL and Aussie rules grounds, let alone NSW where the fucking game was being played The A League metrics are so low I cant believe you would actually come here to boast about them. A game with a TV deal 13% the size of the AFL, a salary cap 1/3 of the size, crowds 1/3 of the size...And the numbers continue to drop But that's OK, because it is fairing better than leagues with no money and no interest Keep on comparing your dick to a belly button I actually don't even get your point. The league is barely a decade old. Its up against a league that has some of he oldest clubs in the world of any code. In tht time it has achieved crowds 1/ 3 the size Its delusion to think that all these disparate State Clubs are suddenly going to create a league that challenges the AFL for TV dollars, and attendances. Football in this country is what is: Today's Melbournes Age has 8 stories about AFL on its homepage. Football has one on Ange and one on the Euro leagues. Its their off-season FFS. The VFL, formerly VFA, is older than the AFL yet it doesn't have a $2.5b TV deal. Its a barely watched league that some people mistake for a second division This isn't a time issue like some people here think. If it was then why did we reset the counter after nearly 30 years with the NSL? Surely you believe that we were almost 1/3 of the way towards 30k averages and a $2.5b TV deal??? In contrast the BBL, which plays a form of a game barely older than the A League (let alone the code) is getting ratings, attendances and money our game can only dream of My point wasn't that football is going to challenge the AFL any time soon. My point was this metrics obsessed dribble is out of context. The A League has failed as a commercial product. In the last 5 years the FFA have thrown everything at crowds and ratings to rescue the only two parts of the game they care about and we have seen a slide Football is what it is, as you said. No clean air. No mainstream media interest. Just a base of rusted on fans that want to see a professional competitive league What idiots here don't seem to understand is a 2nd tier and a 1st tier are two sides of the same coinSure we can have 20 teams in a single division. Give clubs 19 and 20 the same resources as clubs 1 and 2. Give them the same TV opportunities, sponsorship opportunities, and access to the same players. Imagine a business where everybody got paid the same. Where the CEO doesn't get a company car and a mobile phone unless there are resources to ensure the janitor does also I would have thought a prerequisite to a professional league would be some kind of economic realityMakes more sense to split the 20 teams into a 12 and 8 conference. One conference has more money and more sponsorship opportunities. They also have better players and prime TV spots. The second conference which features teams 19 and 20 play in smaller venues, have less money from a central pool, and don't have the best players. In other words they only have what they need - a broom, a mop, and a closet to put it in. If they want more they can climb the "corporate chain". Invest more, get more The muppets here who are so opposed to a second tier structure either think: . Anything spent on more than 10 teams is a waste of money . It is better to spend $8m on 2 clubs at the bottom of the table than $8m on 8 clubs at the bottom of the table Its not just greed and self interest holding our game back. But also stupidity Football is what it is, as you said. We either accept that and work within our limitations to get the best of our game. Or we wait 90 years and we will magically have our answer. Didn't work for the VFL. Didn't work for the NSL. But got a good feeling about this one... The problem with your argument is that in the BBL, and the AFL there is DEMAND from the public. They WILL pay to watch live. They will buy pay TV subs. They will tune to FTA. Cricket and Aussie Rules predate Australia as a federation. These sports are entrenched in the Aussie culture. And they get watch the best in the world. IF there was a public and commercial demand for a national second division, what you say makes sense. But there isn't. Its just the clubs and Federations. The A-league is going backwards for the same reason- its not meeting the needs of the fans: extra teams, new players, bigger names. why are you so concerned with whether its professional or not. someone here talked about the ice hockey national league. if ice hockey can have a national league football can have a 2nd division. Full stop. We could have a second division with what clubs already spend easily. These leagues (BBL, AFL) you're talking about aren't just professional, they're enormously lucrative. Players get payed millions. Thats not this. If there will be professionals in 2nd div they'll be getting 45k not millions. None of these arguments against a 2nd div hold up to any scrutiny. Are you serious? Professional means getting paid to play. " AIHL players are amateurs. Players are not paid to play in the AIHL, but receive other benefits such as the use of a car, and accommodation during the season." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Ice_Hockey_LeagueThe guys in the State leagues are getting paid circa $1000 each per week. On top of their day jobs. In a national second tier, do you think they will demand a) less b) more c) the same.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x‘16 groups of new fans ‘That’s 16x0 equals 0There are no fans that can come from this BS league.Everyone has already jumped ship — ask the Hellas bitters - 99% have gone to MVThe 1% that remain that’s 20 people pollute this forum with BS daily as per this stupid topic Effectively the number of people who paid a ridiculous fee to play the game in Victoria for "tin pot unsupported nothing clubs" equates to those who bothered to watch the Sydney derby, the A League's biggest game, nationally and free across metro Australia And that's those who play in a state dominated by the AFL and Aussie rules grounds, let alone NSW where the fucking game was being played The A League metrics are so low I cant believe you would actually come here to boast about them. A game with a TV deal 13% the size of the AFL, a salary cap 1/3 of the size, crowds 1/3 of the size...And the numbers continue to drop But that's OK, because it is fairing better than leagues with no money and no interest Keep on comparing your dick to a belly button I actually don't even get your point. The league is barely a decade old. Its up against a league that has some of he oldest clubs in the world of any code. In tht time it has achieved crowds 1/ 3 the size Its delusion to think that all these disparate State Clubs are suddenly going to create a league that challenges the AFL for TV dollars, and attendances. Football in this country is what is: Today's Melbournes Age has 8 stories about AFL on its homepage. Football has one on Ange and one on the Euro leagues. Its their off-season FFS. The VFL, formerly VFA, is older than the AFL yet it doesn't have a $2.5b TV deal. Its a barely watched league that some people mistake for a second division This isn't a time issue like some people here think. If it was then why did we reset the counter after nearly 30 years with the NSL? Surely you believe that we were almost 1/3 of the way towards 30k averages and a $2.5b TV deal??? In contrast the BBL, which plays a form of a game barely older than the A League (let alone the code) is getting ratings, attendances and money our game can only dream of My point wasn't that football is going to challenge the AFL any time soon. My point was this metrics obsessed dribble is out of context. The A League has failed as a commercial product. In the last 5 years the FFA have thrown everything at crowds and ratings to rescue the only two parts of the game they care about and we have seen a slide Football is what it is, as you said. No clean air. No mainstream media interest. Just a base of rusted on fans that want to see a professional competitive league What idiots here don't seem to understand is a 2nd tier and a 1st tier are two sides of the same coinSure we can have 20 teams in a single division. Give clubs 19 and 20 the same resources as clubs 1 and 2. Give them the same TV opportunities, sponsorship opportunities, and access to the same players. Imagine a business where everybody got paid the same. Where the CEO doesn't get a company car and a mobile phone unless there are resources to ensure the janitor does also I would have thought a prerequisite to a professional league would be some kind of economic realityMakes more sense to split the 20 teams into a 12 and 8 conference. One conference has more money and more sponsorship opportunities. They also have better players and prime TV spots. The second conference which features teams 19 and 20 play in smaller venues, have less money from a central pool, and don't have the best players. In other words they only have what they need - a broom, a mop, and a closet to put it in. If they want more they can climb the "corporate chain". Invest more, get more The muppets here who are so opposed to a second tier structure either think: . Anything spent on more than 10 teams is a waste of money . It is better to spend $8m on 2 clubs at the bottom of the table than $8m on 8 clubs at the bottom of the table Its not just greed and self interest holding our game back. But also stupidity Football is what it is, as you said. We either accept that and work within our limitations to get the best of our game. Or we wait 90 years and we will magically have our answer. Didn't work for the VFL. Didn't work for the NSL. But got a good feeling about this one... The problem with your argument is that in the BBL, and the AFL there is DEMAND from the public. They WILL pay to watch live. They will buy pay TV subs. They will tune to FTA. Cricket and Aussie Rules predate Australia as a federation. These sports are entrenched in the Aussie culture. And they get watch the best in the world. IF there was a public and commercial demand for a national second division, what you say makes sense. But there isn't. Its just the clubs and Federations. The A-league is going backwards for the same reason- its not meeting the needs of the fans: extra teams, new players, bigger names. If you want cheap DVDs or Games go to BigW The reason why they can do this is by a magical economic thing called product lines. People shop at BigW to get a range of stuff which the owners make money from, and they can afford to cut the cost of electronics because one pays for the other. If BigW ditched electronics then they'll lose customers Football, without a W League, youth league, FFA cup, state feds, national youth and womens teams would be fucked. Football as just the A League and just the Socceroos would be a paradox because neither would have the same commercial value they have without the other 80% non profitable side of the game giving it interest This is why the AFL can afford to have the AFLW and a VicKick program. This is why they can afford to fund football in other countries. You think those Mozambique leagues are paying for themselves? The AFL, BBL and other leagues all have additional leagues such as womens, youth etc... which will never have enough funding to stand on its own feet The argument here seems to be we can do everything except for a second division, even though as I have stated it is merely a different conference to the first tier I'm glad you're not in charge of football in this country because you'd cull everything that isn't of commercial interest. I'd hate to think what it would be like if we lost funding for Futsal... The W_league and Matilda's are politically-correct imposts of doing business in today's 'modern and equality driven " world. Explain why without the W-League, the Matilda's and the FFA Cup, the A-League and Socceroos would be fucked? And Futsal-Tom Rogic aside-please.
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