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Barca4Life
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+x+x+xI'm going to post comments about the last games against Syria in this thread. Most of the focus seems to be on the next game against Honduras in the other threads. I had a second look at the game against Syria in Sydney. In that game I've never been as tense watching it live. The same with my viewing mates. The game seemed terrible and a shocking performance by the Socceroos in the heat of the moment and stress of watching it live. Time dragged. I felt like I'd watched the game for hours and hours. Watching the replay, dispassionately, already knowing the result, I had a completely different perspective on the game. Apart from Milligan's early mistake that led to the early Syrian goal, Australia really dominated. There were so many shots from Rogic, Leckie and Troisi that forced desperate and brilliant saves from the Syrian keeper, that a custodian of lower calibre could've conceded. There was also a plethora of near misses. Also, the game flew by. Watching it seemed to take up a very short time. Whereas live all I could see were negatives in the Socceroos' performance, I saw so many positives in the replay. Maybe Troisi had a game worse than usual by his standards, Milligan made a horrendous mistake that was punished, Rogic didn't beat players until the second half, but most players did a reasonable job individually and collectively. Jurman may have been an inspired selection by Ange. I never thought he would have been as effective as he has been against Syria. Credit to Ange for selecting him. The shot ledger for near misses and desperate saves from keepers of both teams could've read something like 15 for the Socceroos and 3 for Syria. The red card was a culmination of Syria being starved of the ball for sustained periods, forcing extraordinary levels of concentration and discipline . They had to concentrate so hard, for so long, and were exhausted from having so much play without the ball - about 20% possession. In the past, when we played South American teams, former Socceroos, like Alistair Edwards, have stated how tough it was to be without the ball for such long periods after losing it. It would often take 5 minutes to regain the ball. That is why there has been a revamped National Curriculum. In the Sydney game, Ange's voodoo 3-4-2-1, worked quite well. The players are getting used to it. His folly was not playing variations of 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1, 4-3-2-1 when we were away in various phases of games. Ange has also made some perplexing selections with Mooy, Spira, Smith, Behich, Gersbach. Again I urge people reading this to have a look at a replay. The Syrian free kick that hit the post, was nothing different from so many Socceroo close to scoring attempts on goal over the campaign. It may have been a case that Australia has also been extraordinarily unlucky, apart from the ref making critical decisions in our favour against Thailand. A number of Asian keepers must have had the games of their lives against us as well. I thought we played a slightly different formation, the way we lined up with played a 3-1-5-1(3-1-3-3 in attack) with Milligan as the No.4 or just the holding player and Mooy, Rogic and Troisi higher up, this also allowed the likes of Leckie and Kruse to push more forward. I notice alot of how many times Kruse was so high up a number of times he got caught offside. ---------Milligan---------- Mooy------------Troisi------ -----------Rogic------------ This also enabled the CBs in Degenek and Jurman to push forward in bringing the ball out of defence. I'd have to have a look again, but the Socceroos may have played closer to a flat midfield 3-4-3, if Kruse and Leckie played higher and wider. Or was it a 3-4-3 with the 1:3 midfield, or diamond midfield combo? These are classic, tried and proven formations that have worked effectively in football scenarios for some time. Well i was at the game it looked like a 1:3 at times it came to a diamond with Mooy and Troisi dropping in to help the build up. For the first 10 minutes, it almost was a disaster! But once Mooy came in he helped us get that control back in MF, in theory it worked a it havent seen the Socceroo this fluid in there play in a long time, probably since the Asian Cup. Mooy and Troisi seemed more effective in the midfield setup, Rogic had more freedom centrally too this hasnt occured in a long while.
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johnszasz
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Iraq and Iran and Japan are killing it the under 17 world cup. Iran beat Germany 4:0 and Iraq beat Chile 3:0. Is this something that'll die down once they hit senior age like a fair number of talented youth players do? At this rate we're going to be in even more trouble than now if we don't shape up.
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Pasquali
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+xIraq and Iran and Japan are killing it the under 17 world cup. Iran beat Germany 4:0 and Iraq beat Chile 3:0. Is this something that'll die down once they hit senior age like a fair number of talented youth players do? At this rate we're going to be in even more trouble than now if we don't shape up. The fact that many of those players will stay in their home countries instead of playing overseas definitely ruins their potential imo.
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Decentric
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWorld Cup playoff: Rhys Williams would add composure, quality to panicky Socceroos if back for Syria With Milligan, Troisi, Kosta, Ingham and possibly Berisha gone for the Sydney match and the Derby (which are the first two games in the A-League's big debut on Ten) may as well take Rhys too. rhys looked very ordinary last season. i saw nothing that warranted an NT call up. Yes but the article is suggesting that Williams is ready to return to something like his best form this season following numerous fitness issues. We'll see but if that happens he should certainly be under consideration for a back 3. lets see it happen first. he has had plenty of time to return to form... I don't know what you mean by the comment I bolded. After an injury-plagued time at Boro he had an unhappy season at Perth where he felt he was unsuited to Lowe's tactics. He can't be written off on that, imo. unhappy at perth.... under performing at perth. he was on the pitch and healthy. against some pretty soft opposition. he only has himself to blame for his individual performances at perth. So you were referring to his one season under Lowe in your "plenty of time" comment. fact is, there are currently players that are good enough, we dont have any rbs that are good enough that and the fact we have wingers who cant finish (although leckie is coming good) is why we are forced to play a voodoo formation An interesting phenomenon that probably should receive more light, is that Leckie and Kruse both move very well off the ball when the Socceroos are in possession. Their constant running into effective gaps, opens viable passing lanes for players to pass to in other positions. They are often trying to receive the ball whilst running flat out and with their body shape facing away from the teammate passing forwards to them. This is very hard to do compared to receiving if standing in a stationary position and facing the ball. Kruse and Leckie's movement off the ball, in accelerated attacks, makes team-mates look better. Another player like this in the past, was Brett Holman. Going on club form, Tom Rogic is one of our best players. Yet in terms of playing for the national team, Kruse and Leckie's energetic off the ball movement, checking, feinting and moving, creates excellent options for fellow Socceroos to pass to is much needed. Even them creating unselfish dummy runs which pulls opposition defences out of shape is good. This creates gaps in opposition defences. The worst part of both Leckie and Kruse's game, is they often fail to score goals from good shooting positions around goal. Many others don't get into those effective positions though. Maybe Troisi and Burns do too. Troisi struggles at times, but scored one of the best technical goals I've seen any Aussie score against Chile when he deftly chipped the keeper. To Ange's credit in the Syria game, where the tactics looked reasonable until Risdon ran out of gas, he got it right playing Kruse and Leckie as wide attacking players, backed up by wing backs, Behich and Risdon, who have considerable experience as full backs. Until Risdon ran out of gas, Kruse and Leckie could focus more on their attacking play as the defensive duties were performed by Risdon and Behich behind them.. Rukay struggled in the same position when he came on. Inexplicably, Rogic seems to have lost his ability at national team level, to receive with the outside of both feet, simultaneously turning with a reverse shoulder feint. This often beat his opponents before he was better known. This was exemplified when we played Colombia early in Ange's tenure. Under limited time and space and often with two players shadowing and closing down Rogic as he receives, his first touch has bounced heavily off his foot facing towards his own goal in recent times. Where Rogic has improved in playing for Celtic, is shooting and scoring goals with both feet, heading, tackling, body on body contact, both footedness and stamina. Nevertheless, his outstanding technical skills of the past, first touch, dribbling and ball carrying, are less effective for the Socceroos than they were. I hope rogic gets back his ability to beat players with his back turned (and that celtic hasn't ruined him) mind you in the past rogic's technique has dropped substantially if he is carrying a niggle Kruse and holman were both rated very highly by european coaches yet struggled to win the support of oz fans. Both are excellent off the ball. It makes me think that oz fans need to be educated more about off the ball skills I just don't think Rogic is playing against good enough opposition, he needs to move on next season to a more competitive league. Unfortunately I feel Rogic has changed a lot as a player. I feel his first touch has become a lot worse, his passing is worse, he does not control the ball under pressure as well as previously and he has become a more one dimensional player who tries to score goals and does little else. This might be what Celtic want him to be, but it does not help him fit into the Socceroos. He might score the occasional goal, which is excellent, but if he does little else then what is point of having him in the team. A change of club, a new challenge would help him a lot, better regular opposition would be great as well. imo also not good enough defensively for Australia unfortunately. His tackling has also improved. Recently on one occasion Rogic executed a superb sliding in tackle with his his right, non-preferred foot for the Socceroos. Many players tackle off the wrong foot, particularly on their non-preferred side. Maybe his concentration can lapse by effectively playing for such a dominant team in the Scottish League against moderate opposition and get away with it? In the HAL he was often double teamed and opposition teams had specific game plans to nullify his effectiveness. Our Asian opponents are also doing their homework to negate him. The pressure he is under i Asian internationals might be much greater than his club football ATM. a) it doesn't matter what foot you tackle with, what matters is the effectiveness and judgement. i mean the foot you tackle with is the foot thats there at the time right? you have a certain amount of strides to get there and you tackle with the next foot. If you're going for a tackle and failing its because your judgement is off. b) the actual tackling is a very small part of defensive ability for a midfielder, its just the icing on top. The biggest things defensively for a midfielder are: 1. positioning, usually just simply knowing which player you need to mark and how close are you to the man you need to mark. but also other stuff like how aware you are at cutting out "passing lanes" and how well you use your defensive "shadow" 2. how fast (consistently) you shut down the player you are supposed to be marking. rogic sucks at defending because he's slow and lazy. he's hardly ever close enough to who he's marking and he's very slow to put them under pressure, just jogs up to them. I haven't got time ATM to respond to this in depth, but I will in the next few days about tackling with the correct foot. There are two different schools of thought.
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Decentric
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWorld Cup playoff: Rhys Williams would add composure, quality to panicky Socceroos if back for Syria With Milligan, Troisi, Kosta, Ingham and possibly Berisha gone for the Sydney match and the Derby (which are the first two games in the A-League's big debut on Ten) may as well take Rhys too. rhys looked very ordinary last season. i saw nothing that warranted an NT call up. Yes but the article is suggesting that Williams is ready to return to something like his best form this season following numerous fitness issues. We'll see but if that happens he should certainly be under consideration for a back 3. lets see it happen first. he has had plenty of time to return to form... I don't know what you mean by the comment I bolded. After an injury-plagued time at Boro he had an unhappy season at Perth where he felt he was unsuited to Lowe's tactics. He can't be written off on that, imo. unhappy at perth.... under performing at perth. he was on the pitch and healthy. against some pretty soft opposition. he only has himself to blame for his individual performances at perth. So you were referring to his one season under Lowe in your "plenty of time" comment. fact is, there are currently players that are good enough, we dont have any rbs that are good enough that and the fact we have wingers who cant finish (although leckie is coming good) is why we are forced to play a voodoo formation An interesting phenomenon that probably should receive more light, is that Leckie and Kruse both move very well off the ball when the Socceroos are in possession. Their constant running into effective gaps, opens viable passing lanes for players to pass to in other positions. They are often trying to receive the ball whilst running flat out and with their body shape facing away from the teammate passing forwards to them. This is very hard to do compared to receiving if standing in a stationary position and facing the ball. Kruse and Leckie's movement off the ball, in accelerated attacks, makes team-mates look better. Another player like this in the past, was Brett Holman. Going on club form, Tom Rogic is one of our best players. Yet in terms of playing for the national team, Kruse and Leckie's energetic off the ball movement, checking, feinting and moving, creates excellent options for fellow Socceroos to pass to is much needed. Even them creating unselfish dummy runs which pulls opposition defences out of shape is good. This creates gaps in opposition defences. The worst part of both Leckie and Kruse's game, is they often fail to score goals from good shooting positions around goal. Many others don't get into those effective positions though. Maybe Troisi and Burns do too. Troisi struggles at times, but scored one of the best technical goals I've seen any Aussie score against Chile when he deftly chipped the keeper. To Ange's credit in the Syria game, where the tactics looked reasonable until Risdon ran out of gas, he got it right playing Kruse and Leckie as wide attacking players, backed up by wing backs, Behich and Risdon, who have considerable experience as full backs. Until Risdon ran out of gas, Kruse and Leckie could focus more on their attacking play as the defensive duties were performed by Risdon and Behich behind them.. Rukay struggled in the same position when he came on. Inexplicably, Rogic seems to have lost his ability at national team level, to receive with the outside of both feet, simultaneously turning with a reverse shoulder feint. This often beat his opponents before he was better known. This was exemplified when we played Colombia early in Ange's tenure. Under limited time and space and often with two players shadowing and closing down Rogic as he receives, his first touch has bounced heavily off his foot facing towards his own goal in recent times. Where Rogic has improved in playing for Celtic, is shooting and scoring goals with both feet, heading, tackling, body on body contact, both footedness and stamina. Nevertheless, his outstanding technical skills of the past, first touch, dribbling and ball carrying, are less effective for the Socceroos than they were. I hope rogic gets back his ability to beat players with his back turned (and that celtic hasn't ruined him) mind you in the past rogic's technique has dropped substantially if he is carrying a niggle Kruse and holman were both rated very highly by european coaches yet struggled to win the support of oz fans. Both are excellent off the ball. It makes me think that oz fans need to be educated more about off the ball skills I just don't think Rogic is playing against good enough opposition, he needs to move on next season to a more competitive league. Unfortunately I feel Rogic has changed a lot as a player. I feel his first touch has become a lot worse, his passing is worse, he does not control the ball under pressure as well as previously and he has become a more one dimensional player who tries to score goals and does little else. This might be what Celtic want him to be, but it does not help him fit into the Socceroos. He might score the occasional goal, which is excellent, but if he does little else then what is point of having him in the team. A change of club, a new challenge would help him a lot, better regular opposition would be great as well. imo also not good enough defensively for Australia unfortunately. His tackling has also improved. Recently on one occasion Rogic executed a superb sliding in tackle with his his right, non-preferred foot for the Socceroos. Many players tackle off the wrong foot, particularly on their non-preferred side. Maybe his concentration can lapse by effectively playing for such a dominant team in the Scottish League against moderate opposition and get away with it? In the HAL he was often double teamed and opposition teams had specific game plans to nullify his effectiveness. Our Asian opponents are also doing their homework to negate him. The pressure he is under i Asian internationals might be much greater than his club football ATM. a) it doesn't matter what foot you tackle with, what matters is the effectiveness and judgement. i mean the foot you tackle with is the foot thats there at the time right? you have a certain amount of strides to get there and you tackle with the next foot. If you're going for a tackle and failing its because your judgement is off. b) the actual tackling is a very small part of defensive ability for a midfielder, its just the icing on top. The biggest things defensively for a midfielder are: 1. positioning, usually just simply knowing which player you need to mark and how close are you to the man you need to mark. but also other stuff like how aware you are at cutting out "passing lanes" and how well you use your defensive "shadow" 2. how fast (consistently) you shut down the player you are supposed to be marking. rogic sucks at defending because he's slow and lazy. he's hardly ever close enough to who he's marking and he's very slow to put them under pressure, just jogs up to them. i'm not sure I agree with the post but i did want to chirp in and on the positioning point. Why is this generation so bad at positioning? Apart from Jedi and Ryan the team is hopeless at positioning. Below conference level. This is an even bigger weakness than finishing Perhaps I'm used to german/english style positioning and the criteria is different. But it looks pretty bad In what way are they bad at positioning grazor? I've never coached so my views may be lay men but when I look at positioning I look at the following 1. is the off side trap straight? (almost never is for us) 2. how quickly does a back four form in defence when transitioning from attack to defence? (this is ok) 3. how quickly does the second line of defence form to defend against cutbacks or long shots (this is particularly bad for us) 4. How quickly does the shape adjust to a player being pulled out of position. For example if a midfielder is tracking a run into the box does someone quickly mark the zone left unoccupied? (This was highlighted by an oz commentator at a confed cup game which was nice to hear) If a player is beaten and another player has to help him out is the new space created by the assistence quickly closed? 5. How quickly do the players (if ever) get into the optimal veritcal and horizontal spacing when defending deep (or diagonal lines when defending from the front) 6. how straight are your vertical lines. When defending deep its optimal to play a block of 8 but if you are playing a block of 6 your 2 mids need to have straight lines forming a square with the cbs. The square can move side to side as the opposition try and probe. The players need to look as though they have ropes connecting them. WSW were great at this. In the GF vs roar la rocca moved to defence and mooy had to move to 6 and while he was good at generating turnovers the vertical lines were messy and brisbane could finally penetrate 7. when defending deep how well is the positions marked 0 covered ---x-x-x-x--- ---0-x-x-0--- there aren't many sides in asia that can punish sloppiness in this area mind you. 8. when in the middle third are players efficiently swarmed using a shrinking triangle formation or is it just helter skelter? When a player is swarmed how are other players adapting to the space they leave? 9. In the middle third does the (10m either side of half way) does the triangle keep is shape and slide/rotate as appropriate? In all my time watching the a league only wsw have been good at this and then only for a few seasons. They are ok now as were AU that year they won the gf a couple of years ago This requires a thesis to respond!
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Decentric
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+x+x+x+xI'm going to post comments about the last games against Syria in this thread. Most of the focus seems to be on the next game against Honduras in the other threads. I had a second look at the game against Syria in Sydney. In that game I've never been as tense watching it live. The same with my viewing mates. The game seemed terrible and a shocking performance by the Socceroos in the heat of the moment and stress of watching it live. Time dragged. I felt like I'd watched the game for hours and hours. Watching the replay, dispassionately, already knowing the result, I had a completely different perspective on the game. Apart from Milligan's early mistake that led to the early Syrian goal, Australia really dominated. There were so many shots from Rogic, Leckie and Troisi that forced desperate and brilliant saves from the Syrian keeper, that a custodian of lower calibre could've conceded. There was also a plethora of near misses. Also, the game flew by. Watching it seemed to take up a very short time. Whereas live all I could see were negatives in the Socceroos' performance, I saw so many positives in the replay. Maybe Troisi had a game worse than usual by his standards, Milligan made a horrendous mistake that was punished, Rogic didn't beat players until the second half, but most players did a reasonable job individually and collectively. Jurman may have been an inspired selection by Ange. I never thought he would have been as effective as he has been against Syria. Credit to Ange for selecting him. The shot ledger for near misses and desperate saves from keepers of both teams could've read something like 15 for the Socceroos and 3 for Syria. The red card was a culmination of Syria being starved of the ball for sustained periods, forcing extraordinary levels of concentration and discipline . They had to concentrate so hard, for so long, and were exhausted from having so much play without the ball - about 20% possession. In the past, when we played South American teams, former Socceroos, like Alistair Edwards, have stated how tough it was to be without the ball for such long periods after losing it. It would often take 5 minutes to regain the ball. That is why there has been a revamped National Curriculum. In the Sydney game, Ange's voodoo 3-4-2-1, worked quite well. The players are getting used to it. His folly was not playing variations of 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1, 4-3-2-1 when we were away in various phases of games. Ange has also made some perplexing selections with Mooy, Spira, Smith, Behich, Gersbach. Again I urge people reading this to have a look at a replay. The Syrian free kick that hit the post, was nothing different from so many Socceroo close to scoring attempts on goal over the campaign. It may have been a case that Australia has also been extraordinarily unlucky, apart from the ref making critical decisions in our favour against Thailand. A number of Asian keepers must have had the games of their lives against us as well. I thought we played a slightly different formation, the way we lined up with played a 3-1-5-1(3-1-3-3 in attack) with Milligan as the No.4 or just the holding player and Mooy, Rogic and Troisi higher up, this also allowed the likes of Leckie and Kruse to push more forward. I notice alot of how many times Kruse was so high up a number of times he got caught offside. ---------Milligan---------- Mooy------------Troisi------ -----------Rogic------------ This also enabled the CBs in Degenek and Jurman to push forward in bringing the ball out of defence. I'd have to have a look again, but the Socceroos may have played closer to a flat midfield 3-4-3, if Kruse and Leckie played higher and wider. Or was it a 3-4-3 with the 1:3 midfield, or diamond midfield combo? These are classic, tried and proven formations that have worked effectively in football scenarios for some time. Well i was at the game it looked like a 1:3 at times it came to a diamond with Mooy and Troisi dropping in to help the build up. For the first 10 minutes, it almost was a disaster! But once Mooy came in he helped us get that control back in MF, in theory it worked a it havent seen the Socceroo this fluid in there play in a long time, probably since the Asian Cup. Mooy and Troisi seemed more effective in the midfield setup, Rogic had more freedom centrally too this hasnt occured in a long while. You are correct. I've just had a look at the replay again.
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grazorblade
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]World Cup playoff: Rhys Williams would add composure, quality to panicky Socceroos if back for Syria With Milligan, Troisi, Kosta, Ingham and possibly Berisha gone for the Sydney match and the Derby (which are the first two games in the A-League's big debut on Ten) may as well take Rhys too. rhys looked very ordinary last season. i saw nothing that warranted an NT call up. Yes but the article is suggesting that Williams is ready to return to something like his best form this season following numerous fitness issues. We'll see but if that happens he should certainly be under consideration for a back 3. lets see it happen first. he has had plenty of time to return to form... I don't know what you mean by the comment I bolded. After an injury-plagued time at Boro he had an unhappy season at Perth where he felt he was unsuited to Lowe's tactics. He can't be written off on that, imo. unhappy at perth.... under performing at perth. he was on the pitch and healthy. against some pretty soft opposition. he only has himself to blame for his individual performances at perth. So you were referring to his one season under Lowe in your "plenty of time" comment. fact is, there are currently players that are good enough, we dont have any rbs that are good enough that and the fact we have wingers who cant finish (although leckie is coming good) is why we are forced to play a voodoo formation An interesting phenomenon that probably should receive more light, is that Leckie and Kruse both move very well off the ball when the Socceroos are in possession. Their constant running into effective gaps, opens viable passing lanes for players to pass to in other positions. They are often trying to receive the ball whilst running flat out and with their body shape facing away from the teammate passing forwards to them. This is very hard to do compared to receiving if standing in a stationary position and facing the ball. Kruse and Leckie's movement off the ball, in accelerated attacks, makes team-mates look better. Another player like this in the past, was Brett Holman. Going on club form, Tom Rogic is one of our best players. Yet in terms of playing for the national team, Kruse and Leckie's energetic off the ball movement, checking, feinting and moving, creates excellent options for fellow Socceroos to pass to is much needed. Even them creating unselfish dummy runs which pulls opposition defences out of shape is good. This creates gaps in opposition defences. The worst part of both Leckie and Kruse's game, is they often fail to score goals from good shooting positions around goal. Many others don't get into those effective positions though. Maybe Troisi and Burns do too. Troisi struggles at times, but scored one of the best technical goals I've seen any Aussie score against Chile when he deftly chipped the keeper. To Ange's credit in the Syria game, where the tactics looked reasonable until Risdon ran out of gas, he got it right playing Kruse and Leckie as wide attacking players, backed up by wing backs, Behich and Risdon, who have considerable experience as full backs. Until Risdon ran out of gas, Kruse and Leckie could focus more on their attacking play as the defensive duties were performed by Risdon and Behich behind them.. Rukay struggled in the same position when he came on. Inexplicably, Rogic seems to have lost his ability at national team level, to receive with the outside of both feet, simultaneously turning with a reverse shoulder feint. This often beat his opponents before he was better known. This was exemplified when we played Colombia early in Ange's tenure. Under limited time and space and often with two players shadowing and closing down Rogic as he receives, his first touch has bounced heavily off his foot facing towards his own goal in recent times. Where Rogic has improved in playing for Celtic, is shooting and scoring goals with both feet, heading, tackling, body on body contact, both footedness and stamina. Nevertheless, his outstanding technical skills of the past, first touch, dribbling and ball carrying, are less effective for the Socceroos than they were. I hope rogic gets back his ability to beat players with his back turned (and that celtic hasn't ruined him) mind you in the past rogic's technique has dropped substantially if he is carrying a niggle Kruse and holman were both rated very highly by european coaches yet struggled to win the support of oz fans. Both are excellent off the ball. It makes me think that oz fans need to be educated more about off the ball skills I just don't think Rogic is playing against good enough opposition, he needs to move on next season to a more competitive league. Unfortunately I feel Rogic has changed a lot as a player. I feel his first touch has become a lot worse, his passing is worse, he does not control the ball under pressure as well as previously and he has become a more one dimensional player who tries to score goals and does little else. This might be what Celtic want him to be, but it does not help him fit into the Socceroos. He might score the occasional goal, which is excellent, but if he does little else then what is point of having him in the team. A change of club, a new challenge would help him a lot, better regular opposition would be great as well. imo also not good enough defensively for Australia unfortunately. His tackling has also improved. Recently on one occasion Rogic executed a superb sliding in tackle with his his right, non-preferred foot for the Socceroos. Many players tackle off the wrong foot, particularly on their non-preferred side. Maybe his concentration can lapse by effectively playing for such a dominant team in the Scottish League against moderate opposition and get away with it? In the HAL he was often double teamed and opposition teams had specific game plans to nullify his effectiveness. Our Asian opponents are also doing their homework to negate him. The pressure he is under i Asian internationals might be much greater than his club football ATM. a) it doesn't matter what foot you tackle with, what matters is the effectiveness and judgement. i mean the foot you tackle with is the foot thats there at the time right? you have a certain amount of strides to get there and you tackle with the next foot. If you're going for a tackle and failing its because your judgement is off. b) the actual tackling is a very small part of defensive ability for a midfielder, its just the icing on top. The biggest things defensively for a midfielder are: 1. positioning, usually just simply knowing which player you need to mark and how close are you to the man you need to mark. but also other stuff like how aware you are at cutting out "passing lanes" and how well you use your defensive "shadow" 2. how fast (consistently) you shut down the player you are supposed to be marking. rogic sucks at defending because he's slow and lazy. he's hardly ever close enough to who he's marking and he's very slow to put them under pressure, just jogs up to them. i'm not sure I agree with the post but i did want to chirp in and on the positioning point. Why is this generation so bad at positioning? Apart from Jedi and Ryan the team is hopeless at positioning. Below conference level. This is an even bigger weakness than finishing Perhaps I'm used to german/english style positioning and the criteria is different. But it looks pretty bad In what way are they bad at positioning grazor? I've never coached so my views may be lay men but when I look at positioning I look at the following 1. is the off side trap straight? (almost never is for us) 2. how quickly does a back four form in defence when transitioning from attack to defence? (this is ok) 3. how quickly does the second line of defence form to defend against cutbacks or long shots (this is particularly bad for us) 4. How quickly does the shape adjust to a player being pulled out of position. For example if a midfielder is tracking a run into the box does someone quickly mark the zone left unoccupied? (This was highlighted by an oz commentator at a confed cup game which was nice to hear) If a player is beaten and another player has to help him out is the new space created by the assistence quickly closed? 5. How quickly do the players (if ever) get into the optimal veritcal and horizontal spacing when defending deep (or diagonal lines when defending from the front) 6. how straight are your vertical lines. When defending deep its optimal to play a block of 8 but if you are playing a block of 6 your 2 mids need to have straight lines forming a square with the cbs. The square can move side to side as the opposition try and probe. The players need to look as though they have ropes connecting them. WSW were great at this. In the GF vs roar la rocca moved to defence and mooy had to move to 6 and while he was good at generating turnovers the vertical lines were messy and brisbane could finally penetrate 7. when defending deep how well is the positions marked 0 covered ---x-x-x-x--- ---0-x-x-0--- there aren't many sides in asia that can punish sloppiness in this area mind you. 8. when in the middle third are players efficiently swarmed using a shrinking triangle formation or is it just helter skelter? When a player is swarmed how are other players adapting to the space they leave? 9. In the middle third does the (10m either side of half way) does the triangle keep is shape and slide/rotate as appropriate? In all my time watching the a league only wsw have been good at this and then only for a few seasons. They are ok now as were AU that year they won the gf a couple of years ago This requires a thesis to respond! haha maybe the short version is "does it look pretty and organized" :D
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grazorblade
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Here is a good replay.
Rogic and cahill both had chances cleared off the line
leckie, troisi, rogic, ruka and kruse all fluffed (or didnt take) gettable chances
so poor finishing and bad luck disguised an otherwise excellent performance
hard to think of times when our attack has shown more cohesion over the last decade
kruse's finishing should improve with game time since he used to be good at club level but has had such a long era of injury. He has already scored 3
Still, until we improve finishing at youth level we will need to be miles ahead of the opposition to consistently beat them
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jas88
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+x+xIraq and Iran and Japan are killing it the under 17 world cup. Iran beat Germany 4:0 and Iraq beat Chile 3:0. Is this something that'll die down once they hit senior age like a fair number of talented youth players do? At this rate we're going to be in even more trouble than now if we don't shape up. The fact that many of those players will stay in their home countries instead of playing overseas definitely ruins their potential imo. I'm not sure if that will be the case, I think the newer generations will be more willing to try themselves overseas... we could be in big trouble.
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grazorblade
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ruka looks a dangerous sub
if mabil gets more starts he could be a very dangerous sub too
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grazorblade
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I'll tell you what, the concacaf referees dont like blowing penalties
Will be a big adjustment after asia
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maxxie
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+xI'll tell you what, the concacaf referees dont like blowing penalties Will be a big adjustment after asia Why would we have concacaf referees?
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Barca4Life
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+xIraq and Iran and Japan are killing it the under 17 world cup. Iran beat Germany 4:0 and Iraq beat Chile 3:0. Is this something that'll die down once they hit senior age like a fair number of talented youth players do? At this rate we're going to be in even more trouble than now if we don't shape up. Shows how behind we are, we really need to maximise our efforts if we want to qualify for future youth world cups. Going through Asia has always been tough but the last of years have been concerning on our side, credit to Iran and Iraq for doing well, i saw Japan vs France and even though it finished 2-1 the french outclassed them.
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Barca4Life
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+x+xIraq and Iran and Japan are killing it the under 17 world cup. Iran beat Germany 4:0 and Iraq beat Chile 3:0. Is this something that'll die down once they hit senior age like a fair number of talented youth players do? At this rate we're going to be in even more trouble than now if we don't shape up. The fact that many of those players will stay in their home countries instead of playing overseas definitely ruins their potential imo. You do realise they cant move to Europe untill they turn 18 right?
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grazorblade
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a regular reminder that youth results are deceptive and not indicative of how they will progress to seniors
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grazorblade
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johnszasz
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We've moved up 7 places in the latest rankings to 43. 2nd in Asia. Iran 34 and Japan 44. Recent results boosted us. Flattering and would only really count for something to get into pot 1 at the WC draw. Poland are 6th and will be in pot 1 while England and Spain are likely to be pot 2. I swear WC 06 considered world cup record in creating the pots. It does reward recent success but I feel Italy have a much bigger stature than Poland.
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aussie scott21
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+xWe've moved up 7 places in the latest rankings to 43. 2nd in Asia. Iran 34 and Japan 44. Recent results boosted us. Flattering and would only really count for something to get into pot 1 at the WC draw. Poland are 6th and will be in pot 1 while England and Spain are likely to be pot 2. I swear WC 06 considered world cup record in creating the pots. It does reward recent success but I feel Italy have a much bigger stature than Poland. If we make it I would want Russia or Poland over the other 6 teams and over Spain and technically England. If we do ever play England I want it to be a knockout game. Poland has worked the system that allowed them to. But I thought they are changing somethings for the future?
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johnszasz
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+x+xWe've moved up 7 places in the latest rankings to 43. 2nd in Asia. Iran 34 and Japan 44. Recent results boosted us. Flattering and would only really count for something to get into pot 1 at the WC draw. Poland are 6th and will be in pot 1 while England and Spain are likely to be pot 2. I swear WC 06 considered world cup record in creating the pots. It does reward recent success but I feel Italy have a much bigger stature than Poland. If we make it I would want Russia or Poland over the other 6 teams and over Spain and technically England. If we do ever play England I want it to be a knockout game. Poland has worked the system that allowed them to. But I thought they are changing somethings for the future? I don't fear Poland. They got smashed in Denmark and were hard to watch at Euro 16. It'd be a great game. I hope we qualify just to see how we'd go. Better to give it a shot than not at all.
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playmaker11
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Decentric
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After watching the replay against Syria for a third time, Rogic seems to have perplexingly developed a worse first touch in the last year and lost some skill. His superb ball control seems to have slipped. This is almost unprecedented in a player at his stage of his career.
On the other hand, Matt Leckie has recently improved his technical ability.
The ball doesn't seem to be stuck to Rogic's feet when he launches fast ball carries either. He has lost the ball more frequently in recent times under limited pressure with trampoline first touches in his receiving as he runs hard towards his own goal.
Rogic is also not receiving with the outside of both feet and turning from back to front and beating his marker and protecting the ball. I'm not sure if there has been a more targeted game plans of double teaming him, but I'm sure he used to beat one or two players in succession in the past more frequently.
Now he often loses the ball to the second defender. When he was beating more than one player, huge gaps opened up in attacks in the past.
In Celtic's training, under Rodgers at Liverpool, Victory coach, Kevin fMuscat, said that Rodger's Liverpool and De Boer 's Ajax and MV adopted the same program on the training ground. I've watched MV train and it is very technical. I can't believe that Rogic is struggling to control the ball like he was a year or two ago in international games.
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Decentric
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWorld Cup playoff: Rhys Williams would add composure, quality to panicky Socceroos if back for Syria With Milligan, Troisi, Kosta, Ingham and possibly Berisha gone for the Sydney match and the Derby (which are the first two games in the A-League's big debut on Ten) may as well take Rhys too. rhys looked very ordinary last season. i saw nothing that warranted an NT call up. Yes but the article is suggesting that Williams is ready to return to something like his best form this season following numerous fitness issues. We'll see but if that happens he should certainly be under consideration for a back 3. lets see it happen first. he has had plenty of time to return to form... I don't know what you mean by the comment I bolded. After an injury-plagued time at Boro he had an unhappy season at Perth where he felt he was unsuited to Lowe's tactics. He can't be written off on that, imo. unhappy at perth.... under performing at perth. he was on the pitch and healthy. against some pretty soft opposition. he only has himself to blame for his individual performances at perth. So you were referring to his one season under Lowe in your "plenty of time" comment. fact is, there are currently players that are good enough, we dont have any rbs that are good enough that and the fact we have wingers who cant finish (although leckie is coming good) is why we are forced to play a voodoo formation An interesting phenomenon that probably should receive more light, is that Leckie and Kruse both move very well off the ball when the Socceroos are in possession. Their constant running into effective gaps, opens viable passing lanes for players to pass to in other positions. They are often trying to receive the ball whilst running flat out and with their body shape facing away from the teammate passing forwards to them. This is very hard to do compared to receiving if standing in a stationary position and facing the ball. Kruse and Leckie's movement off the ball, in accelerated attacks, makes team-mates look better. Another player like this in the past, was Brett Holman. Going on club form, Tom Rogic is one of our best players. Yet in terms of playing for the national team, Kruse and Leckie's energetic off the ball movement, checking, feinting and moving, creates excellent options for fellow Socceroos to pass to is much needed. Even them creating unselfish dummy runs which pulls opposition defences out of shape is good. This creates gaps in opposition defences. The worst part of both Leckie and Kruse's game, is they often fail to score goals from good shooting positions around goal. Many others don't get into those effective positions though. Maybe Troisi and Burns do too. Troisi struggles at times, but scored one of the best technical goals I've seen any Aussie score against Chile when he deftly chipped the keeper. To Ange's credit in the Syria game, where the tactics looked reasonable until Risdon ran out of gas, he got it right playing Kruse and Leckie as wide attacking players, backed up by wing backs, Behich and Risdon, who have considerable experience as full backs. Until Risdon ran out of gas, Kruse and Leckie could focus more on their attacking play as the defensive duties were performed by Risdon and Behich behind them.. Rukay struggled in the same position when he came on. Inexplicably, Rogic seems to have lost his ability at national team level, to receive with the outside of both feet, simultaneously turning with a reverse shoulder feint. This often beat his opponents before he was better known. This was exemplified when we played Colombia early in Ange's tenure. Under limited time and space and often with two players shadowing and closing down Rogic as he receives, his first touch has bounced heavily off his foot facing towards his own goal in recent times. Where Rogic has improved in playing for Celtic, is shooting and scoring goals with both feet, heading, tackling, body on body contact, both footedness and stamina. Nevertheless, his outstanding technical skills of the past, first touch, dribbling and ball carrying, are less effective for the Socceroos than they were. I hope rogic gets back his ability to beat players with his back turned (and that celtic hasn't ruined him) mind you in the past rogic's technique has dropped substantially if he is carrying a niggle Kruse and holman were both rated very highly by european coaches yet struggled to win the support of oz fans. Both are excellent off the ball. It makes me think that oz fans need to be educated more about off the ball skills I just don't think Rogic is playing against good enough opposition, he needs to move on next season to a more competitive league. Unfortunately I feel Rogic has changed a lot as a player. I feel his first touch has become a lot worse, his passing is worse, he does not control the ball under pressure as well as previously and he has become a more one dimensional player who tries to score goals and does little else. This might be what Celtic want him to be, but it does not help him fit into the Socceroos. He might score the occasional goal, which is excellent, but if he does little else then what is point of having him in the team. A change of club, a new challenge would help him a lot, better regular opposition would be great as well. imo also not good enough defensively for Australia unfortunately. His tackling has also improved. Recently on one occasion Rogic executed a superb sliding in tackle with his his right, non-preferred foot for the Socceroos. Many players tackle off the wrong foot, particularly on their non-preferred side. Maybe his concentration can lapse by effectively playing for such a dominant team in the Scottish League against moderate opposition and get away with it? In the HAL he was often double teamed and opposition teams had specific game plans to nullify his effectiveness. Our Asian opponents are also doing their homework to negate him. The pressure he is under i Asian internationals might be much greater than his club football ATM. a) it doesn't matter what foot you tackle with, what matters is the effectiveness and judgement. i mean the foot you tackle with is the foot thats there at the time right? you have a certain amount of strides to get there and you tackle with the next foot. If you're going for a tackle and failing its because your judgement is off. b) the actual tackling is a very small part of defensive ability for a midfielder, its just the icing on top. The biggest things defensively for a midfielder are: 1. positioning, usually just simply knowing which player you need to mark and how close are you to the man you need to mark. but also other stuff like how aware you are at cutting out "passing lanes" and how well you use your defensive "shadow" 2. how fast (consistently) you shut down the player you are supposed to be marking. rogic sucks at defending because he's slow and lazy. he's hardly ever close enough to who he's marking and he's very slow to put them under pressure, just jogs up to them. Two schools of thought there. Many current Australian younger coaches believe whatever works, works. However, I've come from a background of explicit instruction in tennis, drumming and modern karate. Minute aspects of technique have made a difference to power and technique in all three pursuits. In a sliding tackle it is far better if one moves across the centre of the pitch to tackle an opponent ball carrying down the left flank with the right foot and instep coming over the top of the lower left foot. If there is foot on foot contact with the ball in between both players, the impetus of the sliding tackler provides sufficient momentum to win the ball. The inverse also applies when a player in a central position moves across the pitch to tackle an opponent ball carrying on the right flank. The left foot needs to come over the top of the lower right foot for maximum impact and power. In the last few minutes of the game against Syria, Degenek, after some superb jockeying footwork, tackled the Syrian opponent in the box. He won the ball with a high probability of mistiming the tackle and conceding a penalty. To get the extra distance with the last minute left foot lunge he thought he needed to launch himself with his right foot and tackle with his left. If it the hadn't been centimetre perfect, we would probably have been eliminated. With his right to foot had more margin for error. If one one stays on ones feet and side tackles, it often involves a small poke poke to dispossess an opponent without impact. The block front on tackle also requires both footed tackling to be successful. Milligan is a very two footed receiver and passer, but is too right foot reliant in tackling and jockeying . Sometimes he has an awful looking right foot side lunge when he should front on block tackle with his left foot. Other times his weighting is too reliant in jockeying at trying to force players onto his right side. He is easier to beat if they try to evade him on his left side. He is a little off balance. Rogic and Mooy have both recently executed some superb correct foot slide tackling with the non -preferred foot. Not long ago, Mooy slide tackled off his wrong foot on both sides! Both Rogic and Mooy have good non-prefered feet in receiving and passing. I've also been impressed by Zullo and Josh Rose's non-preferred foot slide tackling in the HAL. All what you suggest about footwork in delaying, showing and jockeying is true.
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Decentric
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I'd like to see Ange stay on as coach if:
* He would still use a combination of 3-4-3, and the 4-3-3 attacking and defensive midfield triangles all in the same game. Ange has become intransigent about using the 3-2-4-1, or more recently the more conventional 3-4-3, all the time.
* I'm perplexed at Ange's double standards with the selection of Smith, who hardly ever plays senior football, Sains who has played little recent club football and the non-selection of Spira who plays a lot of club football at arguably too low a level.
When they've played for the Socceroos recently, Spira has been far better than Smith. Sains has been selected whilst playing little club football, but he has usually done a good job for the Socceroos. I'd like to see Ange continue to select Sains and Spira, but not Smith who has been clearly superseded by Behich and Gersbach.
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Decentric
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A few players who could be options for the national team in the future from viewing the HAL this week.
Daniel Da Silva
He is quick off the mark, quick to change direction, passes and moves well in tight spaces and moves well with the ball at his feet in tight spaces. He is much quicker footed and more nimble than Rogic or Mooy.
Adam Taggart
Only scored 1 goal this week, but he gets into very good positions to score and anticipates play well. Taggart has excellent predatory instincts. One issue is that Glory played a lot of direct football this week. He was sometimes running onto long balls over the top. The national team plays differently.
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johnszasz
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The new UEFA nations league appears to have hindered us in getting UEFA opponents for friendlies. Not exactly a priority at the moment but something to consider in the future.
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johnszasz
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Saudi lost 3:0 at home to Ghana in Oktober and beat Latvia 2:0 today.
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jas88
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+xThe new UEFA nations league appears to have hindered us in getting UEFA opponents for friendlies. Not exactly a priority at the moment but something to consider in the future. AFC + CONCACAF should make a joint league.. everyone normally in the US that time of year anyways.
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johnszasz
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Serbia strolled to a 2:0 win in China. Japan lost 3:1 to Brazil but had a better second half. Iran saw off Panama 2:1 with a classy second goal.
Sigh, I wish we were playing in London tonight instead.
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Bunch of Hacks
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Anyone know a reliable stream that will be showing the match tonight for certain?
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grazorblade
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+x+xThe new UEFA nations league appears to have hindered us in getting UEFA opponents for friendlies. Not exactly a priority at the moment but something to consider in the future. AFC + CONCACAF should make a joint league.. everyone normally in the US that time of year anyways. not a bad idea alternatively it would be nice to have turkey/israel/russia in our confed
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