100% agree... its a serious issue... its sad to watch the A-League and see these young guys like Arzani not get picked for roos... he's a one a few young aussies with the ability to run at defenders and cause problems..teams are already double teaming him... imagine if at socceroos level it continues... guys like rogic benefit immensly.

Has Arzani completed a full 90 minutes yet?

yep this weekend

So he's only just completed his first full game at professional level, and people still think he deserves to be called up to the Socceroos ahead of the likes of Nabbout and Petratos?

They wont get the space or time they normally get at international level... this is where close control and the ability to create your own space is the next step up. Also show me the games where Petratos and Nabbout are getting double teamed/hacked out of the game..

His defence isn't bad actually and his fitness is improving

We have a lot of good players on the wings though. This isn't 4 years ago. Borello who has been tearing buli 2 apart didn't make the latest squad

I hate to predict but which new faces could we see in the national fold for 2022?

Arzani, Pasquali, Atkinson, Keanu Baccus, Italiano, Champness just to name a few.

Who knows we might hear from a kid from here or overseas that might make a name for himself and push for a spot too. every few years we always find a new player gets hyped for a call.

No, but he or Borello should be ahead of Troisi.

This may be worth a look to check out our opponents.

Saturday 24th March 11:15 – 13:45 AEDT
International football
PERU v CROATIA
SBS

Just curious on some of these players, probably specifically Italiano , Arzani, maybe Pasquali and also remembering that some of these guys just arne't wingers, but are getting mentioned in the same context , or there abouts. 

These guys are quite good young players, but its easy for one to observe that they are quite slow players.

Arzani for me doesn't really break any speed barriers. Italiano has capable ball control skills, but really can't do this at high speed. Even for a RB? and the league doesn't help

We need to make a mental adjustment, especially in the youth development and A-League and start recognising th@ none of these players will be good for even INTERNATIONAL LEVEL, if they don't increase there Athletic output / physical ability. .. . speed more specifically and skill with the ball at speed. 

I mean, you'd have to be dubbed a hack if you could only do all these things at a low speed, and you'd suffer greatly if you couldn't perform these efficiently when transfering into an international environment. We're not up to this, even close for me. 

Wonder if this is a product of the A-League's shittiness or what. Nabbout is quite strong in this area, hows his control @ speed

Besides the naive playing for free kicks too often (was making it hard for me to like him coz I want to - not the fact he dives, just that he hasn't learned when to and the crying wolf is already getting him a reputation with a-league refs - he was denied 1 or 2 clear frees because he had fallen over too many times), having now seen him live, he is pretty damn impressive. Not a single United defender could get near him (and Marrone is no slouch) and at times he wasn't double teamed, he was quadruple teamed!

I'm not sure he is ready attitude wise and was happy enough for him to not be picked but would not be upset if he made the final squad if he plays the remainder of the season like he has been.

Plus don't forget, he wouldn't need to play 90 minutes to make the squad. Off the bench for the last 20 minutes in a game where we can't break down a defense (likely), he would not be the worst option we could choose.

These types are always lucky to get one maybe two right. Most players will fade and not reach their potentials.

after an a-league game the coverage switched too a croatian league game and was instantly noticable the speed that everything was done and the intensity was so much higher. Was the cooler weather a factor or do pro/rel leagues mean players are rarely just going through the motions? Arzani has typically good football speed imo, he leaves defenders in his wake over that crucial first 15 metres, Champness too I think has a very good combo of technique and speed. I think they both could adapt well outside the a-league  

Probably exactly this, and just lack of football knowledge.

Looking a little deeper into fundamentals, are these players learning their techniques at high speed. By high speed I mean really that, at a very high speed, so they reap the rewards of making quicker decisions with the ball (in game). Also, are they in the gym building up basic muscle groups in combination. I would think even the average player with an average amount of quickness over say 10-15m would need some basic ability to control the ball at high speed. I know one light tap of the ball can put the ball out in front say one meter, enough for a defender to read, but really, I think our players here are absolute L-platers in this area. Touches are atrocious. Probably see many examples of this in every A-League game thus far. And again, going back to where I think we fall short, in reflection to previous comments, I think Leckie and Kruse dramatically suffer in this area, and make up for it in other areas. And I think this is predominantly what we will witness @ World Cup in our attack, no doubt they have gotten better.

I don't what you mean they are slow, how do you define slow? By speed or speed or thought in making quick football decisions i.e to problem solve? 

Its one thing Australia has done too much in the past is neglect technical ability in favour of speed and size as a bigger paramount when technique and decision making should be paramount.

It's what the new gen of players have which is a high technical ability who can things happen on the dribble something you cant associate with the current A-league they can make effective football decisions. 

Put it this way the game is time and space and you need a high technical level and be a decent problem solver to play in the modern game. 

The cooler conditions are a big factor, the speed of the game here is generally slow and often the players have more time on the ball but the downside of this is when they go overseas or play against overseas they get caught out by the intensity and speed of thought in the games.

Also, the technical level is higher in most European leagues, here players take too many touches before making a decision. 

That's the whole point of these discussions as its all hypotheticals 

Maybe I've  been watching too much Ange, but I don't 100% agree with that either, watch 2014 World Cup and the ability of Kruse and Leckie (our best forwards).

Don't just concentrate on speed alone. Dribbling, control, decision making, touch, ability to run and dribble. Change direction at speed and invert run towards middle.

Leckie, Kruse, Oar are all sideline huggers when put under pressure. Conversely, watch Celtic. ROGIC, Sinclair, Dembele, Teirney, Roberts, Forrest in full flight.

Pick the ball up and can decide whichever way they want to go.

Don't just well, put their heads down bums up and run whatever doreection the path of the ball is going (easy to defend)

I'm going to stick with this theme of this is where we will fall miserably short, not our Central Mid's , not our defending (even though you could point fingers I guess).

Our Wingers , even if not Leckie or Kruse will fall miserably short in being able to impact the game.

I remember Ibini when I could watch him (still can I know but way too early morning), he could change direction while running at defenders and often get past quite easily.

He wasn't the greatest technical player, but could control the ball enough at quite a furious pace. 

He often had a heap of room to run into. This is the type of forward I wished could have developed further (if not for injury ?)

Yes , this is all hypotheticals , based on observations.

I kinda disagree the A-League is fast Barca4life. It's so difficult to be thrilled in watching the A-League

Why? for me the ball spends a lot of time in the air, is not passed quick enough or often enough on the deck. In general its far too slow especially when the ball is spending time in attack

Often feel like drifting off to sleep when the ball is being kicked around the back. Heaps of factors why maybe? but in general not great

Disagree

Yes and no. Over the years, there has definitely been a tendency to use the work 'athletic' indiscriminately (i.e. without breaking it down) and focusing on that. But then in recent years, plenty in the Australian football community have gone too far the other way and been wary of any indication of athleticism (including speed) and the result is a whole host of attacking footballers with varying levels of technical ability but very few (if any) of the right athletic attributes to cut it at the highest level.

This debate ends up being a false dichotomy again and again. The reality is that for strikers, wingers and wingbacks, it's very rare to find a world-class attacking footballer who is not fast and agile. And in plenty of countries this extends to CAMs, too. There are exceptions, but the exceptions essentially need to be on another level of brilliant compared to most other world-class footballers (e.g. Zinedine Zidane). Quite simply, Cristiano Ronaldo, Leo Messi, Gareth Bale, Thierry Henry, Sergio Aguero, Luis Suarez, Neymar, Julian Draxler and so on all have excellent technical ability as well as speed and agility. At the highest level, it's not a question of either technical ability or athleticism. It's both.

Most countries have their best athletes playing football. That means they have a decent proportion of footballers who have both the technical ability as well as the athletic ability (not to mention football IQ and mental toughness).

Australia has two problems. Firstly, football is not the most popular sport. And the best athletes don't tend to play football. Secondly, most people lack both creative thinking and analytical ability. So our coaching ends up being quite average, overall.

Having said all that, I agree with you that Daniel Arzani is fast. Maybe not a sprinter. But fast in a way that is useful for football. He's quick enough out of the blocks, he's agile and he can win the first 15m, maybe 30m of races. When you add that to his close control. That's precisely what seems to be lacking for the NT at senior level.

Arzani isn't slow but he sure isn't what you would call a fast winger, numerous times when he is past the last defender he always gets caught for lack of pace. 

Hmmm. Maybe I've been culpable of wishful thinking and assuming that he just runs out of options rather than getting caught for lack of pace.

With respect to speed and acceleration, where would you say he ranks compared to well-known examples on the wing?

All respect and taking nothing away from Azarni he is obviously talented. He's a quick decision maker with the ball, here more than anything else as a central mid. 

He's not fast fast, like , leave rocket flames behind him or leave players in ruin in his wake. 

Leckie is an example s these types of jet engine , but predominantly straight direction, he can't change direction once he's in full flight. You watch highlights of him turning on the turbo, almost always in a straight line and already past the last defender.

Ibini used to do this in the A-League more so for CCM, and a little for Sydney. 

Makes me wonder about Yeboah actually and if he's up to it. Where is he playing not Bundi 3 I hope ? Scratch th@ , Bundi 3 

Out of options? He has two options, either have enough pace so the defenders don't catch you or realise you'll get caught and try to beat them with skill which he always tries the latter but shows his inexperience. He is too predictable cutting on his right foot and as he isn't Robben the defenders read it far too easily which is why he has scored one goal from open play.

As for comparisons with speed and acceleration, he is pretty much slower than every other Australian winger he is competing with. 

Acceleration over the first five metres in football is far more important than who can run the hundred the fastest

you guys are breaking quickflicks heart :D

For my opinion I think he is playing at a similar level to marinkovic and castro this season albeit with less minutes. Elite A league level

is that good enough to overcome the tactical flexibility that ruka provides? the form borello has? The finishing Nabbout has demonstrated?

Its borderline but I'm glad we have good options this year

arzani isnt  a winger, he's an attacking mid/ wing. its the socceroos not the australian track team he's being considered for, trying to explain that arzani's speed with ball under close control is exceptional seems just a lost cause at this point

I agree with what you are saying, but it isn't the point i was making which was he isn't a player who will beat players with raw pace, but rather with technical ability. Which then led me to the point he still has a lot to improve in that regard in his predictability around the box.

In time i think he'll become a proper attacking midfielder as i think he is more dangerous from deep, but that won't happen till he improves his defensive awareness which is why currently he is competing for the spots on the wing with Australia. 

What I mean is I've noticed that he'll clean beat a defender or two, only to have another one loom. It's that next line of defence which seems to make him slow down (only to be caught by the first ones he beat). I may have it wrong but I always thought this had more to do with inexperience than lack of pace.

Agreed. Maybe a bit more than 5m. But definitely much more important than how quick they run the hundred.

I think the Gunners published lists of how quick their squad run 30m or 40m. I always thought that was a decent distance for football purposes.