One of the issues that arises is that the mods often say they are constantly in a lose/lose scenario. If they come down harder on aberrant behaviour, they are criticised. If they are more lenient they are criticised.  Mods lose either way, which is undesirable. 

It has come to my attention from communication with a mod, that there are many lurkers on 442 who are too intimidated to post. This is bad. 

This forum definitely needs new blood.  We have lost 20-40 odd  good posters who used to constructively discuss football since changing to Inside Sport - Thupercoach, Ton Of Bricks, Canehdrian, Eastern Glory, U4442282, Neanderthal, Cool Cat, Aussiesrus, etc, etc, appear to have left. They haven't been adequately  replaced in terms of quantity of quality.  

A few years back when there was a direct access from 442 articles, there was a peak. There was a constant influx of new members. Some ongoing animosities were minimised by posters encountering each other less often. The new blood often provides new perspectives - hence greater diversity in discussion.

I for one would support mods being harsher on behaviour deemed as bullying new members. An influx  of new posters, maybe more sensitive ones, would create  a bigger, better forum. I suppose with the advent  of the mute system it could minimise trollers' and bullies' influence for more sensitive members. 

  In the weighting of argument by creating greater freedom of speech, as opposed to excessive intervention for aberrant behaviour, I'd suggest the latter course of action by mods in order to grow the forum.

The axiom of the forum in the rules is respond to the idea, not attack the person. In football parlance, play the ball not the man, if you will.

It must be a tough job moderating, but I'd prefer to see a heavier handed approach to induce new thinner - skinned/sensitive members' participation on the forum.

Thoughts? 

Excessive use of the mute system would surely destroy any ongoing dialogue on the forum.

Every forum has people who lurk for a while before posting. Surely it's not up to mods to create a safe space so that favoured candidates can join the forum. I don't think any of the stuff that goes on here is excessively scary- apart from decentric's use of multis.

As for that list of posters who were supposed to be good  and have now departed...Aussiesrus wasn't even a "real" poster- he was only on the forum to promote something.

Only mute those you don't want to have dialogue with,

1. saves getting tempted by their twattishness, and
2. cuts down the number of rude responses newbies end up trawling through

It improved my experience no end.

Not sure what muting has to do with encouraging the growth of 442, but I agree with you totally about enjoying the forum through having the mute mechanism.

Of the umpteen thousand posters on 442, I only have 5 on the mute system. One has to the pretty obnoxious to get into my mute group. At any given time there would only be 3 of these 5 who are active as at least 2 would be banned.

I'd surmise that by us muting a few obnoxious posters, we'd lessen the acrimonious exchanges, which would hopefully encourage more timid prospective members to join.  Also, those obnoxious posters who are muted by a number of the forum, will surely tire of few, or even no responses, to their posts as people can't see them.

I think most reading this would agree we need more posters and new blood, not trolls, on the forum.

Agreed, it has all gone downhill since I became mod :lol:

Also, I contribute a lot of the forum issues to the lack of :lol: working

So the likes of decentric are going to decide who is "obnoxious", and then recommend that others mute them as well??

Yeah, that's pretty democratic isn't it?

I agree with pv4, they should bring back the emoticons like lol and wink etc. Without them, some people can't detect irony or jesting.

Definitely. :lol:

Mods need to provide chaperoning to new members. :lol:

Shame with only PV4, Told Ya So Timmy and I voicing opinions, we can't give a clear indication to the mods of whether they should be more rigorous or not with protecting newer, more timid posters if they join 442. 

Come on, give us your view.

Do some think we don't need the forum to grow at all? 

Other opinions have been given, but decentric is too up himself to read them (lol)

A few people on here are obnoxious, but none so bad that I'd want to use the mute button. I don't think it is up to people like decentric, or the mods, to call for extensive mutings.

He reads them.  Don't worry about that.  

Can't you see he is deliberately trolling you, myself and others.  He's read every post.  

He's trolling.

Ironic wouldn't you say?

Yes, I'm fully aware of that.

The only protected species in here is seemingly decentric..

Not sure why the ppl with the keys to this place tolerate and encourage the lunatic - I can only assume the mods enjoy his arselicking PM's. And, I would dare any moderator here to tell me they haven't received one such PM from decentric LOL.

In short, he remains your biggest obstacle to growth and engaging a wider and more educated football audience.

I think it is a shame that I've started a thread with the intent of trying to gain support for mods to enact heavier sanctions against some rugged individuals who may be the potential perpetrators of bullying behaviour against prospective new members. This is all with the intent of increasing forum participation  by inducing some 'less robust'  prospective members to join 442. It is likely it will increase diversity of thought and generate more threads and discussion topics. Surely this can only be a good thing?

Yet it appears that a few people whose posts I cannot see ( it must be four or less)  are trying to derail the thread with immaterial content. No wonder posters utilise the mute mechanism. Thanks for introducing it McJules.

It would be good to see more posts on  topic. 

Mcjules, I've already reported to you an ugly and abusive PM from decentric.

There's no question of 'multis' - it was sent by "decentric".

What are you going to do about it?

munz you are clearly blocked from decentric so he cant see what you are writing.

i dont understand your issue with him. i agree with your posts and position on things more than just about anyone on here, but your decentric attacks are starting to seem unhinged.  i see more of you posts on that rather than anything else nowadays.

i think it might be better for regular contributors and mods to start calling out shit posting.  this might help police some of the crap a bit better.  there is definitely room for a bit of banter.  i think it\s healthy and makes the forum actually interesting instead of just the same old shit that you see in most forums.  i still think this forum is a lot more accessible for newbs than other forums which seem to rate up there with youtube comments in terms of quality.

as for traffic, i think being buried inside the inside sport forums which pretty much no one uses is harmful.  i also expect an increase in the build up to world cup.  also there are other forums. eg the melbourne city forum is fairly good and it's the reason why only a handful of city fans actually use this forum now.

what kind of heavy handed approach are you advocating for?  it seems that the mods struggle to deal with shit as is.  in another thread ive complained about jsut shutting down threads because they dont like the content or a couple people are having a spat in it.  it's not a personal atttack on the mods - i get that it's probably a bit work intensive to deal with it any other way - but i think shutting threads all the time is shit.  especially when the real threads that need to be shut are left open.  like the 600 a day opened by ausfootballfan which cover nothing new or start threads just straight copying content he has replied to in another thread.  

The idea is to ascertain whether 442 members endorse the mods becoming heavier handed with trolls of  prospective new 'diffident' members in order to grow the forum membership and increase active participation. I've been around forums for 10 years and unless the membership steadily increases, forums die.

I'd be happy for mods to take a heavier handed approach in protecting new members from bullies and trolls in order to increase active participation. Whether others agree or not, is what I'd like to find out. I might be the only member who thinks this way, but this thread is designed to gauge members' opinions.

The mods claim they are often in a lose/lose scenario.

In the other thread you argued a cogent point about moderating. 

Unfortunately, there are quite a number of 442 lurkers who are too intimidated to post.

I suppose multis could exploit a rule but if a poster has fewer than 200 posts perhaps a mod can give a warning to anyone who is a jerk to them

Sounds like a reasonable idea.

If any mods are reading this, can this be implemented? 

The posters you raised have been replaced by posters who are obsessed with being anti-ffa

personally I'm not for or against the ffa. Couldn't care less about them one way or another*. But it does make the forum seem monotonous and dull

*Of course if the ffa block a plausible proposal for a 2nd division my opinion might sour. Ironically that could be the best thing to happen to the forum :D

Hadn't considered this, but it makes sense.

How does decentric know that the threads have "immaterial content" if he can't read them??

This is typical of the silly games he plays.

All posts on this thread are relevant to the discussion of the topic. By continuing to post whilst "not reading" them, he is deliberately obscuring the issue.

And, yes, I've received abusive PMs from decentric too. I'd like to report them too.. but whats the use, nothing will ever be done.

The Melb City forum makes sense as to explaining  some 442 posters' disappearance.

There was also a great deal of animosity exuded towards City  at one stage on 442.

Do you think most of the City fans on that forum are aware of the 442 forum, IB?

My advice to everyone is if you have an issue with a user, take it to PM with them. 

If the PMs can't resolve your issue, mute them.

If the PMs become attack-based or violate rules etc, please report them via PM to a mod.

Please do not publicly post the content of a PM without getting the green light by the person PM-ing you. PMs are PRIVATE messages that don't belong in the public eye. Again, see the line above if things go to shit in your PMs. 

You all have Inala B to thank for his down to earth, common sense thoughts because I have learnt from this and have decided I am going to reopen the Multi Speculation thread. But if it goes to shit again, it's getting not only closed but deleted. That is your full-disclosure warning. 

I like to think I personally, and the mods, don't iron-hammer things too often and without decent enough reason. I am happy to learn and improve always though. 

Remember as always - any issues, please PM me or any other mod. Cheers.

Ha, was just typing out almost the same response so I'll cut and paste it here.

For fucks sake Inala open your eyes. This sort of loaded post is proof he reads everything on here.  If we were actually muted, as he says, then how in God's name would he have a clue what any of the comments are?

As for his assertion that "there are quite a number of 442 lurkers that are too intimidated to post", how the hell would he know that? Next he'll be saying that dozens of new posters are PM'ing him saying they wish something were done about the trolls.

Have a look a my post history. Besides handing out, IMO, some frank opinions I'm not trolling any threads or anyone.

This whole exercise is designed to squash opposition to any of his pathetic ramblings because when the tough questions are asked he can't answer them.

He is a perfect example of the Dunning Krueger effect and a prime example of a bloke with all the gear and no idea.

PS I'll add my name to the list of abusive PM's from Decentric.  (For disclosure purposes I have never sent the him one in return.  My error was to try and help him out in the early days of the forum when notorganic used to troll him incessantly.)

One issue with AF is having certain opinions just starts an absolute shitstorm. Examples:

- Supporting the Phoenix being in the league.
- Not supporting a 2nd division in the A-League

I tend to lurk on a lot of AF articles simply because I know that if I make a certain comment very specific users will make very consistent comments that kill any kind of discussion.

All they have to do, and I've said this many times, is delete the post and put in italics "Off topic, post removed".

Done.  1000% improvement across the forum within a few days.

There'd be no point shitposting because it would be deleted and blokes would get sick of wasting their time.  Instead threads get locked down or devolve into, as you said "shitstorms".  

Indeed.

I tire of the constant threads that just become public places to attack each other over opinions. God help you if you make a comment arguing against a 2nd division at the moment.

The discussion of actual football is less than what it was. I still follow the A-League even though I no longer have a team in the league and I like to discuss it.

1000 times better than muting everyone because they're only shitposting some of the time and you don't know when they've made a reasonable post or not if you can't see them.

Off topic, ad hominen attacks would disappear overnight. 

I agree, some people just disagree on certain topics and can be respectful on others.