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Arthur
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+x+xSydney FC, WSW and CCM all have youth and senior teams in the NPL in NSW. They are all near the top but most aren't in the lead. There is nothing to worry about in terms of competitiveness. I know Sydney FC play an age group up which also helps. And the German and Spanish leagues also have youth teams in the set up, it'll improve the youth setup in the country. These leagues have Promotion and Relegation not to mention a Player Transfer and Compensation system.
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Arthur
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+x+x+xSydney FC, WSW and CCM all have youth and senior teams in the NPL in NSW. They are all near the top but most aren't in the lead. There is nothing to worry about in terms of competitiveness. I know Sydney FC play an age group up which also helps. And the German and Spanish leagues also have youth teams in the set up, it'll improve the youth setup in the country. But it's all the FFA's fault!!! Well in this case it is they regulate the NPL. They have based it on AFL and NRL systems because that's all the administrators know.
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Bundoora B
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+x+xif the npl are scared about better quality teams in the competition the problem is with the npl So you would support promotion & relegation then as current HAL franchises should welcome competition from Clubs read my sig son. our league is shit without P+R.
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Arthur
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+xSydney FC, WSW and CCM all have youth and senior teams in the NPL in NSW. They are all near the top but most aren't in the lead. There is nothing to worry about in terms of competitiveness. I know Sydney FC play an age group up which also helps. The NSW NPL Clubs telling Victoria it is the biggest mistake they made, don't do it they say!!!
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Arthur
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+x+x+x+xSydney FC, WSW and CCM all have youth and senior teams in the NPL in NSW. They are all near the top but most aren't in the lead. There is nothing to worry about in terms of competitiveness. I know Sydney FC play an age group up which also helps. This. Perth Glory do too. How is Victoria any different?! It's long over-due that Victory and City set-up their aged teams in the NPL system, as their A-League rivals had done. It's actually been a point of criticism in-relation to the discussion over lack of younger talent coming through the league. And with the disbandment of the CoE, the A-League clubs developing their Academies and youth structures is part of the strategy. I'm actually surprised that the A-League's most successful off the field, Victory, aren't the league's standard bearers in this area. Sydney FC have Han Berger and all-sorts of investment, what do Victory and City have planned?! :? Victory have big plans to partner with Victoria University in Footscray (in the cities inner-west) for a large development for the Academy as well as sports science and medicine knowledge - the clubs has already hired an Academy director in the form of Paulo Cardoso (former Sporting Lisbon director who, among others, discovered Cristiano Ronaldo - source). Unfortunately there is lots of red tape and the like to jump through before it gets approved, let alone construction. It also doesn't help that we already have access to a world class training facility at AAMI Park for the senior side, so the impetus to create a training base/Academy is less than perhaps some other clubs. Trust me, it is a source of major consternation among Vuck fans that we are yet to leverage our financial clout towards a proper Academy setup. You guys gotta do it sooner rather than later, surely the bigger picture is on the line for the benefit for Australian football. Doubt the benefit part and doubt the bigger picture part. NPLV Clubs offered PPS points for juniors who go to HAL Academies. Means they just recruit more players from QLD, WA, SA, TAS and NSW. So much for development.
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City Sam
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+x+x+xSydney FC, WSW and CCM all have youth and senior teams in the NPL in NSW. They are all near the top but most aren't in the lead. There is nothing to worry about in terms of competitiveness. I know Sydney FC play an age group up which also helps. And the German and Spanish leagues also have youth teams in the set up, it'll improve the youth setup in the country. These leagues have Promotion and Relegation not to mention a Player Transfer and Compensation system. Yes i know that and P and R is desperately needed, but i was mentioning that youth teams being put in lower divisions is a normal thing.
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Arthur
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+xLets do some maths for the ill-informed about NPL Costs. This is based on Vic experience but understand other regions are similar
Assuming squad of 18 players and cost of $2,000 each (which isnt right as many teams charge much less and have smaller squads):
- NPLV license costs $40,000 per year, NPLV limit is 7 teams so each team has to pay $5,715, or $318 per kid
- Cost for kit and training equipment is $600 per kid (min)
- C-License Coaches cost $6,000 per season or $333 per kid (this is minimum, some cost considerable more)
- B-License Technical Director varies wildly but assume minimum $30K (but I understand many earn much more), meaning $238 per kid
- FFA Fee - $12.60 per kid
- FFV Fee - $73.40 per kid
This leaves about $335 per kid to cover all other club costs like power, maintenance, insurance, ref & linesman costs, trophies, etc, which they typically barely do. Majority of clubs rely heavily on volunteers, social clubs, food & drink sales and increasingly on rich benefactors to keep them afloat. You're not far off the mark. As a correction the bigger Clubs are paying their junior coaches $10,000 - $16,000.
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Bundoora B
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+x+xSydney FC, WSW and CCM all have youth and senior teams in the NPL in NSW. They are all near the top but most aren't in the lead. There is nothing to worry about in terms of competitiveness. I know Sydney FC play an age group up which also helps. The NSW NPL Clubs telling Victoria it is the biggest mistake they made, don't do it they say!!! this really sums up a lot of what is wrong with competitive football in australia. there is no significant reward for ambition. there is no significant penalty for deficiency - other than your club collapsing. if you are a club that wants it safe without serious competition you should suffer the risk of relegation and drop to a league standard that suits your ambition. the clubs with the right attitude and willingness to invest need to have a pathway for growth and reward. it blows my mind that this shitty closed out franchise model has been allowed to exist for so long with no real threat.
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Arthur
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+x+x+x+xSydney FC, WSW and CCM all have youth and senior teams in the NPL in NSW. They are all near the top but most aren't in the lead. There is nothing to worry about in terms of competitiveness. I know Sydney FC play an age group up which also helps. And the German and Spanish leagues also have youth teams in the set up, it'll improve the youth setup in the country. These leagues have Promotion and Relegation not to mention a Player Transfer and Compensation system. Yes i know that and P and R is desperately needed, but i was mentioning that youth teams being put in lower divisions is a normal thing. Correct but the regulatory system of the NPL vs HAL are completely different. As an example NPL Clubs cannot be private entities versus HAL Franchises. NPL Clubs have to show where the money is spent, HAL Franchises don't. NPL Clubs have to make all players, parents, coaches etc. voting members, HAL Franchises don't. HAL Franchises can operate at A-League, W-League, Y League and NPL Levels, NPL Clubs can't. In Spain and Germany there is not those restrictions. Do you get where I'm coming from?
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Arthur
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+x+x+xSydney FC, WSW and CCM all have youth and senior teams in the NPL in NSW. They are all near the top but most aren't in the lead. There is nothing to worry about in terms of competitiveness. I know Sydney FC play an age group up which also helps. The NSW NPL Clubs telling Victoria it is the biggest mistake they made, don't do it they say!!! this really sums up a lot of what is wrong with competitive football in australia. there is no significant reward for ambition. there is no significant penalty for deficiency - other than your club collapsing. if you are a club that wants it safe without serious competition you should suffer the risk of relegation and drop to a league standard that suits your ambition. the clubs with the right attitude and willingness to invest need to have a pathway for growth and reward. it blows my mind that this shitty closed out franchise model has been allowed to exist for so long with no real threat. http://wwos.nine.com.au/2017/05/24/10/33/real-madrid-pay-67-million-dollars-for-16-year-old-brazilian-player-viniciusThis can't happen to an NPL Club. You get player points in compensation.
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theFOOTBALLlover
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+x+xSydney FC, WSW and CCM all have youth and senior teams in the NPL in NSW. They are all near the top but most aren't in the lead. There is nothing to worry about in terms of competitiveness. I know Sydney FC play an age group up which also helps. The NSW NPL Clubs telling Victoria it is the biggest mistake they made, don't do it they say!!! Which clubs? I was at Hakoah last year and I didn't hear anyone complaining.
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AJF
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For the record, Victory & City are only entering junior teams because ACL rules state they have to have a minimum 3 junior teams to be able to participate in the competition, so next year Victory & City they will enter 3 teams U14, U16 & U18, All other NPLV Clubs will have 7 NPL teams (2x U12, U13, U14, U5, U16 & U18), plus typically 6-10 sub-junior teams in the U7-U11 age groups. Now tell me again how serious Victory & City are about youth development, I'm really interested.......
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City Sam
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+x+x+x+x+xSydney FC, WSW and CCM all have youth and senior teams in the NPL in NSW. They are all near the top but most aren't in the lead. There is nothing to worry about in terms of competitiveness. I know Sydney FC play an age group up which also helps. And the German and Spanish leagues also have youth teams in the set up, it'll improve the youth setup in the country. These leagues have Promotion and Relegation not to mention a Player Transfer and Compensation system. Yes i know that and P and R is desperately needed, but i was mentioning that youth teams being put in lower divisions is a normal thing. Correct but the regulatory system of the NPL vs HAL are completely different. As an example NPL Clubs cannot be private entities versus HAL Franchises. NPL Clubs have to show where the money is spent, HAL Franchises don't. NPL Clubs have to make all players, parents, coaches etc. voting members, HAL Franchises don't. HAL Franchises can operate at A-League, W-League, Y League and NPL Levels, NPL Clubs can't. In Spain and Germany there is not those restrictions. Do you get where I'm coming from? I understand it, but you are misinterpreting what i am saying and that simply youth team in a lower division is a thing which happens. I am not denying how fucked up the system is in Australia as that isn't the point i am making.
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Stamap
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+x+x+xSydney FC, WSW and CCM all have youth and senior teams in the NPL in NSW. They are all near the top but most aren't in the lead. There is nothing to worry about in terms of competitiveness. I know Sydney FC play an age group up which also helps. The NSW NPL Clubs telling Victoria it is the biggest mistake they made, don't do it they say!!! Which clubs? I was at Hakoah last year and I didn't hear anyone complaining. All of the Sydney delegates that were at the meeting in VIC a month or so ago expressed that view and stressed that the VIC clubs don't make the same mistake
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Stamap
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+xFor the record, Victory & City are only entering junior teams because ACL rules state they have to have a minimum 3 junior teams to be able to participate in the competition, so next year Victory & City they will enter 3 teams U14, U16 & U18, All other NPLV Clubs will have 7 NPL teams (2x U12, U13, U14, U5, U16 & U18), plus typically 6-10 sub-junior teams in the U7-U11 age groups. Now tell me again how serious Victory & City are about youth development, I'm really interested....... I agree with You, I don't think they are serious at all. This is definitely happening to satisfy the AFC requirements. But should the NPL clubs be disadvantage by dumping them in the NPL. I'm not too sure. People are constantly complaining that there are too many teams in the npl and the standard is poor and diluted because of it. This was supposed to be an elite competition wasn't it? City and Victory taking the cream of the crop will only dilute it further. If you think it won't you're kidding yourself
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Canada70
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This might help explain
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Canada70
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I'm new at this forum stuff lol This might help explain why the VIC NPL clubs are relunctant to bend over any more unless a proper impact analysis is done. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3RD0MR1c8PxV2JpRk5xMHFZd1E/viewYouth football in this country is a mess & now they want to privatise it by handing it over to the HAL clubs. Since 2008 when HAL clubs got involved in youth football, our national youth teams have steadily declined. They are now the worst on record.
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Stamap
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+xI'm new at this forum stuff lolThis might help explain why the VIC NPL clubs are relunctant to bend over any more unless a proper impact analysis is done. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3RD0MR1c8PxV2JpRk5xMHFZd1E/viewYouth football in this country is a mess & now they want to privatise it by handing it over to the HAL clubs. Since 2008 when HAL clubs got involved in youth football, our national youth teams have steadily declined. They are now the worst on record. Good read. Thanks Canada. Has there been an update since that letter?
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Canada70
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Our club got an email a few weeks ago from FFV to attend a second (or third) presentation by the FFA to advise us of the scheduled Academy rollout by HAL clubs in 2018 !!
But the AAFC recommended to us that before any NPL club meet the FFA / FFV for a second (or third) time, it was important that the FFA / FFV conduct a thorough impact review first & submit it to the NPL clubs before any further presentations or discussions are conducted.
We're all volunteers & these full time professional staff need to understand that if they want to make changes they need to do the analysis work first, table it, & then everyone can discuss the merits accordingly.
We agreed not to attend the FFA meeting/presentation until that piece of work was done. Otherwise they are wasting our time & theirs.
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No Totti No Party
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+xWith the inclusion of 3 age groups in the junior NPL comp in 2018, could it be another nail in the coffin of VIC NPL? - Will NPL clubs further invest in coaches knowing that their best talents will be taken from them anyway with no compensation for years developed at the club - Will parents remain content to pay $2k per season knowing that these academies will wipe the floor with their kids team - With best players being at these academies, has the fate of remaining players in the npl been sealed Sydney delegates advised Vic counterparts to not make the same mistake they made by letting aleague academies into the NPL leagues With Vic clubs hands being forced by FFA to accept them due to AFC regulations will be interesting to see how this plays out. Currently a lot of unrest around club land with the decision to let them in. "Wipe the floor" Only the under 15's was won by one of the Sydney HAL teams last year & if you look at the tables this year they aren't running away with the leagues this year either 1st & 4th in 13's 7th & 11th in 14's 2nd & 4th in 15's & 16's
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Gyfox
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Since the NPL began in Victoria there has been an increase in player registrations of over 11k or about 20% in the state. Is adding another 2 clubs into the youth system going to dilute the standard appreciably or at all?
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AJF
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+xSince the NPL began in Victoria there has been an increase in player registrations of over 11k or about 20% in the state. Is adding another 2 clubs into the youth system going to dilute the standard appreciably or at all? Competition is already diluted and adding more teams will make it worse. After 11 rounds, goal difference for bottom teams in NPLV East is U14: -96, U16: - 36 & U18: -41 ("Bye" is actually second last in U18's). These are age groups HAL Academies will participate in. West comp is not much better.
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Canada70
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Good point. A second division will provide legitimate competition to the HAL clubs for talented players as would a standard player Transfer payment system. FFA has done everything to benefit HAL private business interests these 12-13 yrs, & still is. We're going backwards.   
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Mustang67
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+xWould love to answer your questions once you tell me who the fark you are and your involvement in the game. Just a dad with boys that play. What the fark has that got to do with it? Who are you before you answer all the questions? Lol.
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Gyfox
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+x+xSince the NPL began in Victoria there has been an increase in player registrations of over 11k or about 20% in the state. Is adding another 2 clubs into the youth system going to dilute the standard appreciably or at all? Competition is already diluted and adding more teams will make it worse. After 11 rounds, goal difference for bottom teams in NPLV East is U14: -96, U16: - 36 & U18: -41 ("Bye" is actually second last in U18's). These are age groups HAL Academies will participate in. West comp is not much better. Thats not a good situation. Would setting the NPL up like they have in NSW be better? They have NPL1 (12 clubs), NPL2 (14) and NPL3 (14) with P/R between each tier based of club championship position and then a State League as the fourth tier in the State system. The youth of NPL1 and NPL2 are in a 26 club League and NPL3 youth in another League.
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Mustang67
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Btw the only ones complaining will be one off two people.
1. A hard core NPL clubman or
2. A NPL dad that his kid wasn't selected for a MV or MC squad.
Just ask any of the dad's that have there kids in these squads currently if there happy or not and if it's better then where they came from.
The ÑPL was a great idea if there was 14- 16 teams in it not 30. The orginal VPL teams would have been perfect but no ffv thought we can cash in here. Simple as that. Now the parents pockets have to suffer and the competition does suffer.
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Arthur
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Without promotion relegation it's not done that's the point not to mention transfer fees
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Arthur
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Hakoah Sydney one of the first to sign with AAFC they have not come out and repudiated AAFC statements on this matter.
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Arthur
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You are incorrect. They only need two teams which they have NPL and U20s.
They are also free to set up an ALeague junior competition no one said they have to be in NPL
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Arthur
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The Japan trip was a great success we heard?
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