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Canada70
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The point I was trying to make was that private business syndicates are predominantly looking at pocketing windfalls or growing a business to on sell it, rather than plowing any windfalls locally.
In regards to the Abu Dhabi owners, they bought a very undercapitalised joke of a franchise. The Heart group if you all recall, were using wheelie bins for their players' ice baths. It certainly needed basic amenities. Just to get it out of that embarrassing situation.
The question I raise again is: how much of the future windfalls do we expect these private businesses to invest in Australia's football growth?
Melbourne Victory train their senior players out of a public park where you can walk your dog and many A-League clubs are in a similar situation.
Hence, investing in the minimum requirements that are stipulated in their A-League licenses Is not anything special but the expected minimum.
Just imagine if they were not forced to have youth, womens teams etc whether they would bother incurring the expense.
Please don't make me delve into to much explanation for obvious points we all should be aware of, particularly before I've had a couple of coffees :)
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walnuts
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+x+xExcellent summation of what the privatisation of the game has done to Aust football.One point to add:How much of the money received for selling Mooy do u estimate the Abu Dahbi owners of Melb City will invest in Australia football ?My guess : next to nothing. How do we invest & grow football in Aust with the current model ? Melbourne City lost 8 million in its first season. That is a net investment flow in to Australian football. They built multi million dollar training facilities. That is an investment. They bought the cub. That is an investment. They have already spent more than what they earned from the Mooy deal before they even knew they would have a Mooy. Your guess it not even close. Add to this a fully funded women's side and yeah, CFG are doing more than their fair share for the domestic scene tbh - even if their men's team is a basketcase.
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FullBack4
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+x+xExcellent summation of what the privatisation of the game has done to Aust football.One point to add:How much of the money received for selling Mooy do u estimate the Abu Dahbi owners of Melb City will invest in Australia football ?My guess : next to nothing. How do we invest & grow football in Aust with the current model ? Melbourne City lost 8 million in its first season. That is a net investment flow in to Australian football. They built multi million dollar training facilities. That is an investment. They bought the cub. That is an investment. They have already spent more than what they earned from the Mooy deal before they even knew they would have a Mooy. Your guess it not even close. As a South's man I have plenty of disdain for both Melbourne sides squatting on our licence. But it is impossible to argue that CFG have not made a major financial investment in to teh Sport well above the sale of Mooy
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FullBack4
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+x+xThe A League raises $75m in revenues which: $26m goes to clubs for salaries $10m is spent on marketing $5m is spent on administration $2m is spent on FFA salary That leaves $34m for the rest of football. That works out at about $60 per registered player per year. The HAL is NOT cross-funding teh rest of foootball, there is not enough money there Is that $75 million combined tv money, finals revenue, sponsorship revenue (Hyundai etc) and comission from club merchandise sales plus outright merchandise sales plus $250000 per A-League club game against Europans teams? No one really knows exactly what revenues the FFA has and from where but tellingly no one from the FFA has ever tried to distance themselves from the number, $75-$80m on the old TV contract seems to be "acceptable".One FFA insider once told me he thought the FFA could fund a national second division just out of efficiency and cost savings at the FFA alone, dont know how true it is but it is believable
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bohemia
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+xExcellent summation of what the privatisation of the game has done to Aust football.One point to add:How much of the money received for selling Mooy do u estimate the Abu Dahbi owners of Melb City will invest in Australia football ?My guess : next to nothing. How do we invest & grow football in Aust with the current model ? Melbourne City lost 8 million in its first season. That is a net investment flow in to Australian football. They built multi million dollar training facilities. That is an investment. They bought the cub. That is an investment. They have already spent more than what they earned from the Mooy deal before they even knew they would have a Mooy. Your guess it not even close.
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pippinu
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+x+x+x+xThe HAL is run as a franchise system with the clubs being issues licenses to participate. FFA as the master franchisor controls & owns everything, the intellectual property, the names, the brands, team colors, websites. Everything. If your interested in seeing what options current Franchise owners have, just google how Clive Palmer & Gold Coast untied went when they took on the FFA when they pulled Clive's license. With regard to setting up a rebel league, assuming current owners would be able to get past non-compete clauses in their license agreements (which will be there without a doubt), how many HAL fans will swap to Sydney City FC, Western Sydney Rovers or Melbourne Victorious, each wearing different team colors as FFA owns current strips? Doubt many would, so value of tv deals or sponsorship would be minimal. Also other than the big 3, the other teams are already on their knees financially so where will funds to set up new clubs & league come from? Plus as we have seen in the past with GC, Brisbane and Newcastle, if current owners pull the pin, FFA could just take over the running of the teams themselves, costs would be covered by the Fox TV money and they could then flog them to new owners when they wanted. The average fan doesn't care who the owners are. Personally I believe many of the current issues are caused by the lack of a traditional "football club" organisation in the HAL, but unfortunately, the current system is based on the "Jim's Mowing" business model and Jim (FFA) is the king. Good summation. Most people on 442 forums (and editorial staff) will never understand it and they will somehow think that this A League is something it can never be. The "Owners" are the actual worst thing about the League. Always have been. Lowy Sr. knew that would be the case apparently and set it up to protect the League itself and more, from them. Think about this for a minute. For $5M a foreign privately held entity can buy a portion of it. At the moment, that investment allows them to operate in a sandbox where they have no power and limited influence. That could all change dramatically. Horribly. If those owners, by way of their very small investment on a global scale, get control of the national football organisation then we have something completely different and scary happening. There would be absolutely nothing to stop them stripping the asset and throwing the husk away. That's the complete reversal of the current situation. While it's arguable that these owners bought in with their eyes open, the same can't be said for everybody that has a stake in Football in this country. You might be asking where your $6.00 registration fee goes now? You really want to be asking that question of a future organisation which is to be run exclusively for the benefit of foreign and a couple of local billionaires? You trust these people? Let me remind you: Brisbane - Indonesian. Sydney - Russian. Wellington - New Zealand. Newcastle - China. Central Coast - English. Melbourne City - Abu Dhabi. The other remaining four are at least Australian, but there are only two that I would trust to run a football club for the benefit of football above anything else. This isn't a xenophobic rant - it's a comment that if your only stake in this country is to extract money from it, then you have to be dealt with as a banker-investor not as a benevolent benefactor who has the warm and fuzzy about advancing football here. They may be a bunch of idealists but they don't look like it from this distance. The A League has to die as it currently exists. It worked for the best part of 10 years but now it is apparent that it is holding back the professional game here. Above and beyond that, it now threatens all that lies beyond the professional game. The crown jewels are the million people that have nothing to do with the A League and sure as hell don't want the faux-clubs running their organisation and putting their interests behind the further enrichment of already very rich people. We do need a new ownership model (vis a vis the current A League model). If the League cannot be held separate from the mainstream organisation then it is a very real problem. Creating an independent professional League body will be a requirement whether the same League is kept and adjusted, or a totally new one is formed. It will have to be responsible for its own fortunes and future, but failure should not threaten anything beyond its remit. The FFA should give it rope, but retain a hand on it so that cannot get quasi-control of the whole sport here. There is time and opportunity now (only just arisen really) whereby the FFA could create a completely new body to run Professional Football but bind it to an expansive model broadly governed by the FIFA statutes. Anybody stepping into the Professional game in Australia would immediately know where the short and long term lies and so informed, could choose their path. If I was FFA I would take two seriously disruptive steps and one big brave one: 1. Tell the A League Clubs that they can take it or leave it. If they say "we'll leave" say goodbye to them. Issue new franchises to make up the numbers if necessary. There are very willing players in each "market" that would step up. Players suddenly out of contract would be snapped up again. Easier actually than starting from scratch. Ugly, but very very workable. 2. Simultaneously with above, announce the creation of a body to independently run the Professional game in Australia. It should be constituted by truly independent people with the majority of the expertise brought in from abroad initially. Japan, Germany and perhaps the US might be good places to start looking - not so much Bern(e). The body would have to be in place and fully running the pro game here 2018-2019 with a clearly timetabled transition. 3. "Balls move" (as if the others aren't). Genuinely reform the Congress so that it is truly representative. Stephen Lowy doesn't want to be doing this shit for the rest of his life, so his best move is to create a power structure that is genuinely democratic and move on from the benevolent oligarchy. Fill the Congress with seats and votes that cover all the interests of the game nationally and thereby insure against the seizure of control by narrow and greedy interests (or benevolent ones) because if you look at the long history of the game in this country - that is the path that it has always taken and then fallen by. Democracy is inefficient and frustrating but it is enduring and ultimately enriching. Great post and you highlight an important aspect whatever we get or move too must be better than what we have now ... Agree totally on each of your three points especially number 2... Midfileder, you are a turkey voting for Christmas, If they start again its bye-bye Mariners LoL AS this unfolds, it's definitely a case of: be careful what you wish for.
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aufc_ole
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+x+xGallop could introduce P&R That'll bring things back into FFA control Promotion and Relgation wont do much. Let me guess, P and R is also a cure for cancer I see. I rather this fight for money gets sorted out sooner rather than later. It would make the fight so much easier/clearer.
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aussie scott21
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+xThe A League raises $75m in revenues which: $26m goes to clubs for salaries $10m is spent on marketing $5m is spent on administration $2m is spent on FFA salary That leaves $34m for the rest of football. That works out at about $60 per registered player per year. The HAL is NOT cross-funding teh rest of foootball, there is not enough money there Is that $75 million combined tv money, finals revenue, sponsorship revenue (Hyundai etc) and comission from club merchandise sales plus outright merchandise sales plus $250000 per A-League club game against Europans teams?
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FullBack4
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Group: Forum Members
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The A League raises $75m in revenues which:
$26m goes to clubs for salaries
$10m is spent on marketing
$5m is spent on administration
$2m is spent on FFA salary
That leaves $34m for the rest of football.
That works out at about $60 per registered player per year. The HAL is NOT cross-funding teh rest of foootball, there is not enough money there
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Razor Ramon
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+xGallop could introduce P&R That'll bring things back into FFA control Promotion and Relgation wont do much. Let me guess, P and R is also a cure for cancer I see. I rather this fight for money gets sorted out sooner rather than later.
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FullBack4
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 697,
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+x+x+xThe HAL is run as a franchise system with the clubs being issues licenses to participate. FFA as the master franchisor controls & owns everything, the intellectual property, the names, the brands, team colors, websites. Everything. If your interested in seeing what options current Franchise owners have, just google how Clive Palmer & Gold Coast untied went when they took on the FFA when they pulled Clive's license. With regard to setting up a rebel league, assuming current owners would be able to get past non-compete clauses in their license agreements (which will be there without a doubt), how many HAL fans will swap to Sydney City FC, Western Sydney Rovers or Melbourne Victorious, each wearing different team colors as FFA owns current strips? Doubt many would, so value of tv deals or sponsorship would be minimal. Also other than the big 3, the other teams are already on their knees financially so where will funds to set up new clubs & league come from? Plus as we have seen in the past with GC, Brisbane and Newcastle, if current owners pull the pin, FFA could just take over the running of the teams themselves, costs would be covered by the Fox TV money and they could then flog them to new owners when they wanted. The average fan doesn't care who the owners are. Personally I believe many of the current issues are caused by the lack of a traditional "football club" organisation in the HAL, but unfortunately, the current system is based on the "Jim's Mowing" business model and Jim (FFA) is the king. Good summation. Most people on 442 forums (and editorial staff) will never understand it and they will somehow think that this A League is something it can never be. The "Owners" are the actual worst thing about the League. Always have been. Lowy Sr. knew that would be the case apparently and set it up to protect the League itself and more, from them. Think about this for a minute. For $5M a foreign privately held entity can buy a portion of it. At the moment, that investment allows them to operate in a sandbox where they have no power and limited influence. That could all change dramatically. Horribly. If those owners, by way of their very small investment on a global scale, get control of the national football organisation then we have something completely different and scary happening. There would be absolutely nothing to stop them stripping the asset and throwing the husk away. That's the complete reversal of the current situation. While it's arguable that these owners bought in with their eyes open, the same can't be said for everybody that has a stake in Football in this country. You might be asking where your $6.00 registration fee goes now? You really want to be asking that question of a future organisation which is to be run exclusively for the benefit of foreign and a couple of local billionaires? You trust these people? Let me remind you: Brisbane - Indonesian. Sydney - Russian. Wellington - New Zealand. Newcastle - China. Central Coast - English. Melbourne City - Abu Dhabi. The other remaining four are at least Australian, but there are only two that I would trust to run a football club for the benefit of football above anything else. This isn't a xenophobic rant - it's a comment that if your only stake in this country is to extract money from it, then you have to be dealt with as a banker-investor not as a benevolent benefactor who has the warm and fuzzy about advancing football here. They may be a bunch of idealists but they don't look like it from this distance. The A League has to die as it currently exists. It worked for the best part of 10 years but now it is apparent that it is holding back the professional game here. Above and beyond that, it now threatens all that lies beyond the professional game. The crown jewels are the million people that have nothing to do with the A League and sure as hell don't want the faux-clubs running their organisation and putting their interests behind the further enrichment of already very rich people. We do need a new ownership model (vis a vis the current A League model). If the League cannot be held separate from the mainstream organisation then it is a very real problem. Creating an independent professional League body will be a requirement whether the same League is kept and adjusted, or a totally new one is formed. It will have to be responsible for its own fortunes and future, but failure should not threaten anything beyond its remit. The FFA should give it rope, but retain a hand on it so that cannot get quasi-control of the whole sport here. There is time and opportunity now (only just arisen really) whereby the FFA could create a completely new body to run Professional Football but bind it to an expansive model broadly governed by the FIFA statutes. Anybody stepping into the Professional game in Australia would immediately know where the short and long term lies and so informed, could choose their path. If I was FFA I would take two seriously disruptive steps and one big brave one: 1. Tell the A League Clubs that they can take it or leave it. If they say "we'll leave" say goodbye to them. Issue new franchises to make up the numbers if necessary. There are very willing players in each "market" that would step up. Players suddenly out of contract would be snapped up again. Easier actually than starting from scratch. Ugly, but very very workable. 2. Simultaneously with above, announce the creation of a body to independently run the Professional game in Australia. It should be constituted by truly independent people with the majority of the expertise brought in from abroad initially. Japan, Germany and perhaps the US might be good places to start looking - not so much Bern(e). The body would have to be in place and fully running the pro game here 2018-2019 with a clearly timetabled transition. 3. "Balls move" (as if the others aren't). Genuinely reform the Congress so that it is truly representative. Stephen Lowy doesn't want to be doing this shit for the rest of his life, so his best move is to create a power structure that is genuinely democratic and move on from the benevolent oligarchy. Fill the Congress with seats and votes that cover all the interests of the game nationally and thereby insure against the seizure of control by narrow and greedy interests (or benevolent ones) because if you look at the long history of the game in this country - that is the path that it has always taken and then fallen by. Democracy is inefficient and frustrating but it is enduring and ultimately enriching. Great post and you highlight an important aspect whatever we get or move too must be better than what we have now ... Agree totally on each of your three points especially number 2... Midfileder, you are a turkey voting for Christmas, If they start again its bye-bye Mariners LoL
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Eldar
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.2K,
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+x+xYeah, I think the clubs need to be careful because going in for a fight now just for the sake of it could end up damaging them even more, financially. Everyone can see that the system needs to change, away from the franchise/FFA controlled league to a more independent league that incorporates secondary divisions and grassroots, but going all out in that fight now for the sake of $500k a year might not be wise. Absolutely the clubs need to agitate for more say/representation in the running of the game and gradually from there we would like to see things like independent league with clubs given more control of their recources and income and the building of the football pyramid but I'm not sure that getting into a fight about it at this time and dragging the game through the mud is the right option. So when is the right time? As I said, seek to change the system of governance first, that can start now. Things like a strike or a rebel league would be a disaster for the game.
Beaten by Eldar
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azzaMVFC
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Group: Forum Members
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+xSEN radio about to talk about the FFA v clubs v FIFA stoush. I don't ever listen to that station, due to its AFL bias, however if you could fill us in that would be great. Who was on to speak about it?
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Midfielder
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.7K,
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+x+xThe HAL is run as a franchise system with the clubs being issues licenses to participate. FFA as the master franchisor controls & owns everything, the intellectual property, the names, the brands, team colors, websites. Everything. If your interested in seeing what options current Franchise owners have, just google how Clive Palmer & Gold Coast untied went when they took on the FFA when they pulled Clive's license. With regard to setting up a rebel league, assuming current owners would be able to get past non-compete clauses in their license agreements (which will be there without a doubt), how many HAL fans will swap to Sydney City FC, Western Sydney Rovers or Melbourne Victorious, each wearing different team colors as FFA owns current strips? Doubt many would, so value of tv deals or sponsorship would be minimal. Also other than the big 3, the other teams are already on their knees financially so where will funds to set up new clubs & league come from? Plus as we have seen in the past with GC, Brisbane and Newcastle, if current owners pull the pin, FFA could just take over the running of the teams themselves, costs would be covered by the Fox TV money and they could then flog them to new owners when they wanted. The average fan doesn't care who the owners are. Personally I believe many of the current issues are caused by the lack of a traditional "football club" organisation in the HAL, but unfortunately, the current system is based on the "Jim's Mowing" business model and Jim (FFA) is the king. Good summation. Most people on 442 forums (and editorial staff) will never understand it and they will somehow think that this A League is something it can never be. The "Owners" are the actual worst thing about the League. Always have been. Lowy Sr. knew that would be the case apparently and set it up to protect the League itself and more, from them. Think about this for a minute. For $5M a foreign privately held entity can buy a portion of it. At the moment, that investment allows them to operate in a sandbox where they have no power and limited influence. That could all change dramatically. Horribly. If those owners, by way of their very small investment on a global scale, get control of the national football organisation then we have something completely different and scary happening. There would be absolutely nothing to stop them stripping the asset and throwing the husk away. That's the complete reversal of the current situation. While it's arguable that these owners bought in with their eyes open, the same can't be said for everybody that has a stake in Football in this country. You might be asking where your $6.00 registration fee goes now? You really want to be asking that question of a future organisation which is to be run exclusively for the benefit of foreign and a couple of local billionaires? You trust these people? Let me remind you: Brisbane - Indonesian. Sydney - Russian. Wellington - New Zealand. Newcastle - China. Central Coast - English. Melbourne City - Abu Dhabi. The other remaining four are at least Australian, but there are only two that I would trust to run a football club for the benefit of football above anything else. This isn't a xenophobic rant - it's a comment that if your only stake in this country is to extract money from it, then you have to be dealt with as a banker-investor not as a benevolent benefactor who has the warm and fuzzy about advancing football here. They may be a bunch of idealists but they don't look like it from this distance. The A League has to die as it currently exists. It worked for the best part of 10 years but now it is apparent that it is holding back the professional game here. Above and beyond that, it now threatens all that lies beyond the professional game. The crown jewels are the million people that have nothing to do with the A League and sure as hell don't want the faux-clubs running their organisation and putting their interests behind the further enrichment of already very rich people. We do need a new ownership model (vis a vis the current A League model). If the League cannot be held separate from the mainstream organisation then it is a very real problem. Creating an independent professional League body will be a requirement whether the same League is kept and adjusted, or a totally new one is formed. It will have to be responsible for its own fortunes and future, but failure should not threaten anything beyond its remit. The FFA should give it rope, but retain a hand on it so that cannot get quasi-control of the whole sport here. There is time and opportunity now (only just arisen really) whereby the FFA could create a completely new body to run Professional Football but bind it to an expansive model broadly governed by the FIFA statutes. Anybody stepping into the Professional game in Australia would immediately know where the short and long term lies and so informed, could choose their path. If I was FFA I would take two seriously disruptive steps and one big brave one: 1. Tell the A League Clubs that they can take it or leave it. If they say "we'll leave" say goodbye to them. Issue new franchises to make up the numbers if necessary. There are very willing players in each "market" that would step up. Players suddenly out of contract would be snapped up again. Easier actually than starting from scratch. Ugly, but very very workable. 2. Simultaneously with above, announce the creation of a body to independently run the Professional game in Australia. It should be constituted by truly independent people with the majority of the expertise brought in from abroad initially. Japan, Germany and perhaps the US might be good places to start looking - not so much Bern(e). The body would have to be in place and fully running the pro game here 2018-2019 with a clearly timetabled transition. 3. "Balls move" (as if the others aren't). Genuinely reform the Congress so that it is truly representative. Stephen Lowy doesn't want to be doing this shit for the rest of his life, so his best move is to create a power structure that is genuinely democratic and move on from the benevolent oligarchy. Fill the Congress with seats and votes that cover all the interests of the game nationally and thereby insure against the seizure of control by narrow and greedy interests (or benevolent ones) because if you look at the long history of the game in this country - that is the path that it has always taken and then fallen by. Democracy is inefficient and frustrating but it is enduring and ultimately enriching. Great post and you highlight an important aspect whatever we get or move too must be better than what we have now ... Agree totally on each of your three points especially number 2...
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aussie scott21
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
Visits: 0
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+x+xThe HAL is run as a franchise system with the clubs being issues licenses to participate. FFA as the master franchisor controls & owns everything, the intellectual property, the names, the brands, team colors, websites. Everything. If your interested in seeing what options current Franchise owners have, just google how Clive Palmer & Gold Coast untied went when they took on the FFA when they pulled Clive's license. With regard to setting up a rebel league, assuming current owners would be able to get past non-compete clauses in their license agreements (which will be there without a doubt), how many HAL fans will swap to Sydney City FC, Western Sydney Rovers or Melbourne Victorious, each wearing different team colors as FFA owns current strips? Doubt many would, so value of tv deals or sponsorship would be minimal. Also other than the big 3, the other teams are already on their knees financially so where will funds to set up new clubs & league come from? Plus as we have seen in the past with GC, Brisbane and Newcastle, if current owners pull the pin, FFA could just take over the running of the teams themselves, costs would be covered by the Fox TV money and they could then flog them to new owners when they wanted. The average fan doesn't care who the owners are. Personally I believe many of the current issues are caused by the lack of a traditional "football club" organisation in the HAL, but unfortunately, the current system is based on the "Jim's Mowing" business model and Jim (FFA) is the king. Good summation. Most people on 442 forums (and editorial staff) will never understand it and they will somehow think that this A League is something it can never be. The "Owners" are the actual worst thing about the League. Always have been. Lowy Sr. knew that would be the case apparently and set it up to protect the League itself and more, from them. Think about this for a minute. For $5M a foreign privately held entity can buy a portion of it. At the moment, that investment allows them to operate in a sandbox where they have no power and limited influence. That could all change dramatically. Horribly. If those owners, by way of their very small investment on a global scale, get control of the national football organisation then we have something completely different and scary happening. There would be absolutely nothing to stop them stripping the asset and throwing the husk away. That's the complete reversal of the current situation. While it's arguable that these owners bought in with their eyes open, the same can't be said for everybody that has a stake in Football in this country. You might be asking where your $6.00 registration fee goes now? You really want to be asking that question of a future organisation which is to be run exclusively for the benefit of foreign and a couple of local billionaires? You trust these people? Let me remind you: Brisbane - Indonesian. Sydney - Russian. Wellington - New Zealand. Newcastle - China. Central Coast - English. Melbourne City - Abu Dhabi. The other remaining four are at least Australian, but there are only two that I would trust to run a football club for the benefit of football above anything else. This isn't a xenophobic rant - it's a comment that if your only stake in this country is to extract money from it, then you have to be dealt with as a banker-investor not as a benevolent benefactor who has the warm and fuzzy about advancing football here. They may be a bunch of idealists but they don't look like it from this distance. The A League has to die as it currently exists. It worked for the best part of 10 years but now it is apparent that it is holding back the professional game here. Above and beyond that, it now threatens all that lies beyond the professional game. The crown jewels are the million people that have nothing to do with the A League and sure as hell don't want the faux-clubs running their organisation and putting their interests behind the further enrichment of already very rich people. We do need a new ownership model (vis a vis the current A League model). If the League cannot be held separate from the mainstream organisation then it is a very real problem. Creating an independent professional League body will be a requirement whether the same League is kept and adjusted, or a totally new one is formed. It will have to be responsible for its own fortunes and future, but failure should not threaten anything beyond its remit. The FFA should give it rope, but retain a hand on it so that cannot get quasi-control of the whole sport here. There is time and opportunity now (only just arisen really) whereby the FFA could create a completely new body to run Professional Football but bind it to an expansive model broadly governed by the FIFA statutes. Anybody stepping into the Professional game in Australia would immediately know where the short and long term lies and so informed, could choose their path. If I was FFA I would take two seriously disruptive steps and one big brave one: 1. Tell the A League Clubs that they can take it or leave it. If they say "we'll leave" say goodbye to them. Issue new franchises to make up the numbers if necessary. There are very willing players in each "market" that would step up. Players suddenly out of contract would be snapped up again. Easier actually than starting from scratch. Ugly, but very very workable. 2. Simultaneously with above, announce the creation of a body to independently run the Professional game in Australia. It should be constituted by truly independent people with the majority of the expertise brought in from abroad initially. Japan, Germany and perhaps the US might be good places to start looking - not so much Bern(e). The body would have to be in place and fully running the pro game here 2018-2019 with a clearly timetabled transition. 3. "Balls move" (as if the others aren't). Genuinely reform the Congress so that it is truly representative. Stephen Lowy doesn't want to be doing this shit for the rest of his life, so his best move is to create a power structure that is genuinely democratic and move on from the benevolent oligarchy. Fill the Congress with seats and votes that cover all the interests of the game nationally and thereby insure against the seizure of control by narrow and greedy interests (or benevolent ones) because if you look at the long history of the game in this country - that is the path that it has always taken and then fallen by.
Democracy is inefficient and frustrating but it is enduring and ultimately enriching. One tale has him taking control of an unruly A-League owners meeting a few years ago, in a room full of other success business leaders and entrepreneurs, by suddenly slamming his fist on the table and loudly exclaiming: "Gentlemen, let me remind you: this is not a democracy."
Frank Lowy passes to son Steven as he blows whistle on soccer | afr.com
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pippinu
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SEN radio about to talk about the FFA v clubs v FIFA stoush.
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SWandP
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+x+x+xHow many Melbourne Victory members are football fans first and Victory fans second? I'm genuinely afraid to guess. That's a tough question, but I genuinely see myself as both. Many members of this forum would be the same. Many of my mates are the same as well. But there can't be too many of us. Hypothetical question for you, if the owners of Victory shut down the club and started a new team with different name & different colours (remember these belong to FFA), would you change over and support them? No. I don't support them now. I wouldn't support them in the future no matter how many times they change their shirt colour and logo. They don't offer me anything, It's not about them being a "real" club or a franchise either. They have exactly zero appeal to me as an entity. I like watching the football played by the team they hire though. I could say the same about Colombia or Germany. I count Victory as one of the two A League organisations that seem to be more interested in football than money and/or influence. That's good from my perspective. They have done a lot for the game here. Great. Gone tomorrow? Too bad. Life goes on. The new generation of supporters is what I am concerned about. We must keep them or try harder to. Look how strong your positive feelings are toward a commercial entity that has the annual turnover and less clout than a regional Safeway outlet. Football is amazing.
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SWandP
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+xHow many Melbourne Victory members are football fans first and Victory fans second? I'm genuinely afraid to guess. That's a tough question, but I genuinely see myself as both. Many members of this forum would be the same. Many of my mates are the same as well. But there can't be too many of us. Well mate, we've been on this ride before. :) Will meet up and stand you a drink one day and we'll reminisce. Sorry a football fan. What the fuck is that? I don't go around supporting the linesman, ref and ball. I go for my team and that's it. One of the big parts of why I want pro/rel is to relegate shit fans and their shit clubs. You should be ashamed of yourself tbh. Why because I don't support an A League team? That I've placed the good of the game above notions of narrow self-interest? Not me that should be ashamed mate.
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slipperypigeon
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+xHow many Melbourne Victory members are football fans first and Victory fans second? I'm genuinely afraid to guess. That's a tough question, but I genuinely see myself as both. Many members of this forum would be the same. Many of my mates are the same as well. But there can't be too many of us. Well mate, we've been on this ride before. :) Will meet up and stand you a drink one day and we'll reminisce. Sorry a football fan. What the fuck is that? I don't go around supporting the linesman, ref and ball. I go for my team and that's it. One of the big parts of why I want pro/rel is to relegate shit fans and their shit clubs. You should be ashamed of yourself tbh. Too right. Follow your team first, that is where the blood, sweat and tears are shed in the stands.
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RBBAnonymous
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+x+xThe HAL is run as a franchise system with the clubs being issues licenses to participate. FFA as the master franchisor controls & owns everything, the intellectual property, the names, the brands, team colors, websites. Everything. If your interested in seeing what options current Franchise owners have, just google how Clive Palmer & Gold Coast untied went when they took on the FFA when they pulled Clive's license. With regard to setting up a rebel league, assuming current owners would be able to get past non-compete clauses in their license agreements (which will be there without a doubt), how many HAL fans will swap to Sydney City FC, Western Sydney Rovers or Melbourne Victorious, each wearing different team colors as FFA owns current strips? Doubt many would, so value of tv deals or sponsorship would be minimal. Also other than the big 3, the other teams are already on their knees financially so where will funds to set up new clubs & league come from? Plus as we have seen in the past with GC, Brisbane and Newcastle, if current owners pull the pin, FFA could just take over the running of the teams themselves, costs would be covered by the Fox TV money and they could then flog them to new owners when they wanted. The average fan doesn't care who the owners are. Personally I believe many of the current issues are caused by the lack of a traditional "football club" organisation in the HAL, but unfortunately, the current system is based on the "Jim's Mowing" business model and Jim (FFA) is the king. Good summation. Most people on 442 forums (and editorial staff) will never understand it and they will somehow think that this A League is something it can never be. The "Owners" are the actual worst thing about the League. Always have been. Lowy Sr. knew that would be the case apparently and set it up to protect the League itself and more, from them. Think about this for a minute. For $5M a foreign privately held entity can buy a portion of it. At the moment, that investment allows them to operate in a sandbox where they have no power and limited influence. That could all change dramatically. Horribly. If those owners, by way of their very small investment on a global scale, get control of the national football organisation then we have something completely different and scary happening. There would be absolutely nothing to stop them stripping the asset and throwing the husk away. That's the complete reversal of the current situation. While it's arguable that these owners bought in with their eyes open, the same can't be said for everybody that has a stake in Football in this country. You might be asking where your $6.00 registration fee goes now? You really want to be asking that question of a future organisation which is to be run exclusively for the benefit of foreign and a couple of local billionaires? You trust these people? Let me remind you: Brisbane - Indonesian. Sydney - Russian. Wellington - New Zealand. Newcastle - China. Central Coast - English. Melbourne City - Abu Dhabi. The other remaining four are at least Australian, but there are only two that I would trust to run a football club for the benefit of football above anything else. This isn't a xenophobic rant - it's a comment that if your only stake in this country is to extract money from it, then you have to be dealt with as a banker-investor not as a benevolent benefactor who has the warm and fuzzy about advancing football here. They may be a bunch of idealists but they don't look like it from this distance. The A League has to die as it currently exists. It worked for the best part of 10 years but now it is apparent that it is holding back the professional game here. Above and beyond that, it now threatens all that lies beyond the professional game. The crown jewels are the million people that have nothing to do with the A League and sure as hell don't want the faux-clubs running their organisation and putting their interests behind the further enrichment of already very rich people. We do need a new ownership model (vis a vis the current A League model). If the League cannot be held separate from the mainstream organisation then it is a very real problem. Creating an independent professional League body will be a requirement whether the same League is kept and adjusted, or a totally new one is formed. It will have to be responsible for its own fortunes and future, but failure should not threaten anything beyond its remit. The FFA should give it rope, but retain a hand on it so that cannot get quasi-control of the whole sport here. There is time and opportunity now (only just arisen really) whereby the FFA could create a completely new body to run Professional Football but bind it to an expansive model broadly governed by the FIFA statutes. Anybody stepping into the Professional game in Australia would immediately know where the short and long term lies and so informed, could choose their path. If I was FFA I would take two seriously disruptive steps and one big brave one: 1. Tell the A League Clubs that they can take it or leave it. If they say "we'll leave" say goodbye to them. Issue new franchises to make up the numbers if necessary. There are very willing players in each "market" that would step up. Players suddenly out of contract would be snapped up again. Easier actually than starting from scratch. Ugly, but very very workable. 2. Simultaneously with above, announce the creation of a body to independently run the Professional game in Australia. It should be constituted by truly independent people with the majority of the expertise brought in from abroad initially. Japan, Germany and perhaps the US might be good places to start looking - not so much Bern(e). The body would have to be in place and fully running the pro game here 2018-2019 with a clearly timetabled transition. 3. "Balls move" (as if the others aren't). Genuinely reform the Congress so that it is truly representative. Stephen Lowy doesn't want to be doing this shit for the rest of his life, so his best move is to create a power structure that is genuinely democratic and move on from the benevolent oligarchy. Fill the Congress with seats and votes that cover all the interests of the game nationally and thereby insure against the seizure of control by narrow and greedy interests (or benevolent ones) because if you look at the long history of the game in this country - that is the path that it has always taken and then fallen by. Democracy is inefficient and frustrating but it is enduring and ultimately enriching. Definitely Not no 1. I could live with 2 but we should be able to run football on our own but outside help would be welcome and then gone when they are done. We should be able to get to 3 but the FFA doesn't want to be part of a democratic process. All FIFA wants is for the congress to have more votes, the FFA doesn't even want to add 3 votes to the congress, they should be adding 100+ if we want to be real.
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AJF
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.7K,
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+x+xHow many Melbourne Victory members are football fans first and Victory fans second? I'm genuinely afraid to guess. That's a tough question, but I genuinely see myself as both. Many members of this forum would be the same. Many of my mates are the same as well. But there can't be too many of us. Hypothetical question for you, if the owners of Victory shut down the club and started a new team with different name & different colours (remember these belong to FFA), would you change over and support them?
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crimsoncrusoe
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Without seeing the FFA constitution,I would expect that FFA are bound by rules of FIFA.
As covered in another topic,FIFA can replace the board of FFA,which negates any possibility of FFA legally breaking away from FIFA.
If FFA fail to keep FIFA happy then FIFA have the power to move in and kickout Gallop and Lowy.They are both just people,with no special powers ,except those they think they have.
FFA structured the HAL assuming they could keep total control of the clubs and control all the money,but arrogantly have ignored the power of FIFA.
FFA are not constituted like AFL and NRL.There is no overseeing body that has any control over them.
If FFA are totally beholden to FIFA.They have played the special circumstances card for eleven years and its now proved to be lame,with npl clubs calling for a second division.It's just a matter of whether FIFA want to do anything.
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AJF
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+xThe HAL is run as a franchise system with the clubs being issues licenses to participate. FFA as the master franchisor controls & owns everything, the intellectual property, the names, the brands, team colors, websites. Everything. If your interested in seeing what options current Franchise owners have, just google how Clive Palmer & Gold Coast untied went when they took on the FFA when they pulled Clive's license. With regard to setting up a rebel league, assuming current owners would be able to get past non-compete clauses in their license agreements (which will be there without a doubt), how many HAL fans will swap to Sydney City FC, Western Sydney Rovers or Melbourne Victorious, each wearing different team colors as FFA owns current strips? Doubt many would, so value of tv deals or sponsorship would be minimal. Also other than the big 3, the other teams are already on their knees financially so where will funds to set up new clubs & league come from? Plus as we have seen in the past with GC, Brisbane and Newcastle, if current owners pull the pin, FFA could just take over the running of the teams themselves, costs would be covered by the Fox TV money and they could then flog them to new owners when they wanted. The average fan doesn't care who the owners are. Personally I believe many of the current issues are caused by the lack of a traditional "football club" organisation in the HAL, but unfortunately, the current system is based on the "Jim's Mowing" business model and Jim (FFA) is the king. Well put. The main comeback, and it's a good comeback, is that FIFA can throw Australia out, so the league which the FFA continues running will not have FIFA or AFC endorsement. That has a host of implications, not least of which will be that the league will only be able to attract rank amateurs to play for it. Anyway, however it unfolds, it will end up as a huge disruption, and no football fan should be wishing for this to happen. ps some history - Australia was thrown out of FIFA back in the 1960s, it meant that the socceroos couldn't compete in FIFA sanctioned tournaments, but at the same time the various state leagues continued with minimal effect - but that was a different era. FIFA expulsion is very rare and if you look at the history of counties which were booted, the reasons were far more serious than what is happening in Oz.The only real implications with suspension are Aus clubs/teams couldn't compete in WC & qualifiers or AFC, plus they couldn't benefit from FIFA development programs. The league would continue and HAL isn't the first choice league for most payers, so expect similar level players would still come here for the $. Also having less foreigners wouldn't be such a bad thing for youth development as HAL may change from a retirement league to a development league so could actually be a positive! FFA would then have time to structure the congress to be more friendly and re-apply for admittance to FIFA (just like what happened in Indonesia recently).
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And Everyone Blamed Clive
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+xInteresting observation: There is a raft of genuine fans of the A League Clubs. That is very evident from what you see posted in these forums. They believe they are fighting for something they belong to. Something real, almost tangible. Remember Townsville and GCU and beyond? It complicates things immensely. How many Melbourne Victory members are football fans first and Victory fans second? I'm genuinely afraid to guess. I do know this. Owners like Palmer, Tinkler and their ilk are quite willing to ruthlessly exploit that genuine sense of belonging for their own personal advantage. In effect, they've paid money for that devoted following. They don't actually own much else when they get a licence. These people really get hurt when that sense of belonging is stripped from them. The threat of that loss makes them fearful and angry. It sure as hell is a complication that I haven't fully factored into a reform agenda. It is also the big gun that owner-group will use ruthlessly. Hmmmm. Owners come and go It's the FFA who decided to just delete the 'sense of belonging' They shouldn't be able to do that, and P&R would mean they have no (feeble) excuse to
Winner of Official 442 Comment of the day Award - 10th April 2017
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TheSelectFew
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+xHow many Melbourne Victory members are football fans first and Victory fans second? I'm genuinely afraid to guess. That's a tough question, but I genuinely see myself as both. Many members of this forum would be the same. Many of my mates are the same as well. But there can't be too many of us. Well mate, we've been on this ride before. :) Will meet up and stand you a drink one day and we'll reminisce. Sorry a football fan. What the fuck is that? I don't go around supporting the linesman, ref and ball. I go for my team and that's it. One of the big parts of why I want pro/rel is to relegate shit fans and their shit clubs. You should be ashamed of yourself tbh.
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SWandP
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
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+x+xHow many Melbourne Victory members are football fans first and Victory fans second? I'm genuinely afraid to guess. That's a tough question, but I genuinely see myself as both. Many members of this forum would be the same. Many of my mates are the same as well. But there can't be too many of us. Well mate, we've been on this ride before. :) Will meet up and stand you a drink one day and we'll reminisce.
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azzaMVFC
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Group: Forum Members
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+xHow many Melbourne Victory members are football fans first and Victory fans second? I'm genuinely afraid to guess. That's a tough question, but I genuinely see myself as both. Many members of this forum would be the same. Many of my mates are the same as well. But there can't be too many of us.
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SWandP
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
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Interesting observation: There is a raft of genuine fans of the A League Clubs.
That is very evident from what you see posted in these forums. They believe they are fighting for something they belong to. Something real, almost tangible.
Remember Townsville and GCU and beyond? It complicates things immensely.
How many Melbourne Victory members are football fans first and Victory fans second? I'm genuinely afraid to guess.
I do know this. Owners like Palmer, Tinkler and their ilk are quite willing to ruthlessly exploit that genuine sense of belonging for their own personal advantage. In effect, they've paid money for that devoted following. They don't actually own much else when they get a licence.
These people really get hurt when that sense of belonging is stripped from them. The threat of that loss makes them fearful and angry. It sure as hell is a complication that I haven't fully factored into a reform agenda. It is also the big gun that owner-group will use ruthlessly. Hmmmm.
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pippinu
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 5.7K,
Visits: 0
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+xThe HAL is run as a franchise system with the clubs being issues licenses to participate. FFA as the master franchisor controls & owns everything, the intellectual property, the names, the brands, team colors, websites. Everything. If your interested in seeing what options current Franchise owners have, just google how Clive Palmer & Gold Coast untied went when they took on the FFA when they pulled Clive's license. With regard to setting up a rebel league, assuming current owners would be able to get past non-compete clauses in their license agreements (which will be there without a doubt), how many HAL fans will swap to Sydney City FC, Western Sydney Rovers or Melbourne Victorious, each wearing different team colors as FFA owns current strips? Doubt many would, so value of tv deals or sponsorship would be minimal. Also other than the big 3, the other teams are already on their knees financially so where will funds to set up new clubs & league come from? Plus as we have seen in the past with GC, Brisbane and Newcastle, if current owners pull the pin, FFA could just take over the running of the teams themselves, costs would be covered by the Fox TV money and they could then flog them to new owners when they wanted. The average fan doesn't care who the owners are. Personally I believe many of the current issues are caused by the lack of a traditional "football club" organisation in the HAL, but unfortunately, the current system is based on the "Jim's Mowing" business model and Jim (FFA) is the king. Well put. The main comeback, and it's a good comeback, is that FIFA can throw Australia out, so the league which the FFA continues running will not have FIFA or AFC endorsement. That has a host of implications, not least of which will be that the league will only be able to attract rank amateurs to play for it. Anyway, however it unfolds, it will end up as a huge disruption, and no football fan should be wishing for this to happen. ps some history - Australia was thrown out of FIFA back in the 1960s, it meant that the socceroos couldn't compete in FIFA sanctioned tournaments, but at the same time the various state leagues continued with minimal effect - but that was a different era.
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pippinu
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Group: Banned Members
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+x+x+xIf I am a Fox executive and I am happy with the existing deal all I will do is reach out for my rubber stamp and continue with the status quo. Yes it's that simple. Do you honestly think Fox would risk not showing the A-league on Fox, they would lose plenty of subscriptions. If they want to fulfill the obligations of the TV deal, they must show the A-League, which, will still be owned by the FFA which still exists as a legal entity and which, most probably, would still have government support. If any clubs have chosen to break their licensing agreements with the FFA, there'd probably be court action. If clubs pull out of the A-League, the FFA will need to find new clubs to meet the 5 games per week obligation - becomes more difficult if we no longer a member of FIFA, but not impossible (it just means that only rank amateurs would be playing in the A-League). And yet you're somehow trying to argue here that FFA is in an advantaged position. If the clubs want to break away then FFA can go to court and take on 10 aleague clubs and 120 of the next biggest clubs. That will be one hell of a day in court. Frank, Steve and Dave going head to head with the 130 biggest football clubs in the country, threatening to replace them with the Sydney Pirates, Melbourne Blues and with the full support of 1% of football fans left that have faith in the FFA. Bring it the fuck on The FFA is advantaged to the extent that it currently has 7 of 10 votes to change the constitution, it only needs one more vote to succeed. Put another way, the recalcitrants only have 3 of 10 votes. So who is closest to getting 80% of the vote to change the constitution? It's the FFA. So even if FIFA set up a new body which is controlled by the 3 recalcitrants, doesn't it follow that another bunch of stakeholders are going to be upset? (that's before we even get to everything the new body would need to do to get things going again).
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