johnszasz
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Great insight into these teams. Cheers. So much late drama in Europe last night
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johnszasz
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+x1;0 USA. Pulisic early goal. I don't remember posting this. Was absolutely blind.
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johnszasz
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Ryan McGowan has come in for Wright. Wright is injured.
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Bundoora B
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+x+x4-0 Anyone who knows CONCACAF have an opinion on who is a better potential opponent for us - Panama or Honduras? Gotchu fam. First, a little about the region. North America (minus Canada) is king, and Costa Rica is pretty strong. The Caribbean is 90 percent minnows playing on swampy, pitted cricket fields. And Central America is home to the middling sides in the region. The Central American teams break down into 3 tiers. You have Costa Rica at the top, obviously, with good athleticism, excellent technical ability, and a great GK. At the bottom, you've got Nicaragua (more of a baseball nation) Guatemala (always a bridesmaid, never good enough to be a threat in the Hex) and El Salvador (see Guatemala, but fewer long-balls, and dirtier fouls). Honduras and Panama are right smack dab in the middle. Neither good enough to challenge the top 3 of the US/Mexico/CR, but better than the obligatory Caribbean team (Jamaica or Trinidad and Tobago). Atmosphere: From both, expect raucous crowds before (national holidays will be called, fans will make noise/set off fireworks all night outside of your hotel room) and during the game (you may deal with batteries, bottles of water/piss, etc). Honduras Style of Play: Fast, physical, dirty. Their spine is made up of Maynor Figueroa, Boniek Garcia, Alberth Elis, and Romell Quioto. All play in the Texas heat, 3 of them for the Houston Dynamo, and they're the bell-weather for the team. In particular, Elis and Quioto will give the most trouble. Really good wingers, fast and physical. As an Earthquakes fan, they've torn my team up, and if you let Honduras absorb pressure and get either guy one into a 1-on-1 matchup on the outside, game over. They will get off a decent cross or shot, almost guaranteed. That is their main attacking threat, although Lozano is decent. On set-pieces, I think Honduras' main competence is on corners. Boniek can serve in good ones. Nobody that I've seen can really hit good dead balls otherwise. They have two main weaknesses. First, they struggle to chase games. Pinto (who led Costa Rica in the 2014 World Cup, FYI) loves a 5-man backline, his teams have always been defense-first, and they've always struggled when going down a goal. This happened with Costa Rica, Columbia, Costa Rica (again), and Honduras is no exception. Second, they struggle away from home. When it's not 1:00 PM, 95 degrees/80 percent humidity, in San Pedro Sula, suddenly Honduras doesn't do so well, so if you can get a point away, you're pretty set at home. Panama Style of Play: Technical, physical, playing through the central midfield. Panama likes to play through Godoy, Cooper, and Quintero. When Godoy is on, he's an extremely good destroyer who plays both sides of the ball, setting up and stopping attacks. Cooper and Quintero will be the main outlets for Panamanians under pressure. Cooper's good with the ball at his feet, and Quintero's basically a winger who can cut inside really well. Torres and Baloy are really big, bruising CB's, but they're often in card trouble. On set pieces, Gaby Torres serves a mean cross, and Blas Perez is an old target forward with a ton of goals and experience that can get on the end of some of those balls. Panama's IMO an overall more balanced team. Their main weakness seems to be mental fortitude. They seem to choke during big games, and the Hondurans don't, which is why Honduras has WC appearances, and Panama does not. In the last cycle, we knocked them out in Estadio Rommell with a B-team, and of course last night they waltzed into a 4-0 buzz-saw (a scoreline that flattered Panama) instead of bunkering for a point. If you thought the penalty was questionable last night, prepare yourselves for more of the same. The phrase "Solo en CONCACAF" gets thrown around a lot, because the CONCACAF refs let guys get away with murder. The Panamanians will ticky-tack foul you all game, but the Hondurans will just straight up kick the snot out of you, so if the Socceroos aren't mentally prepared for that, they will be in for a rough time. I always like watching the Socceroos play, maybe because they seem so stylistically-similar to the US, and are also usually underdogs, so I hope you get through to the WC. Hope this helps, good luck in the next leg with Syria and beyond (unless you play us :b ). welcome to the forum. i really like your style of analysis. how would you say the same thing about the australian team to say someone from honduras?
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azzaMVFC
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+x+x+x4-0 Anyone who knows CONCACAF have an opinion on who is a better potential opponent for us - Panama or Honduras? Gotchu fam. First, a little about the region. North America (minus Canada) is king, and Costa Rica is pretty strong. The Caribbean is 90 percent minnows playing on swampy, pitted cricket fields. And Central America is home to the middling sides in the region. The Central American teams break down into 3 tiers. You have Costa Rica at the top, obviously, with good athleticism, excellent technical ability, and a great GK. At the bottom, you've got Nicaragua (more of a baseball nation) Guatemala (always a bridesmaid, never good enough to be a threat in the Hex) and El Salvador (see Guatemala, but fewer long-balls, and dirtier fouls). Honduras and Panama are right smack dab in the middle. Neither good enough to challenge the top 3 of the US/Mexico/CR, but better than the obligatory Caribbean team (Jamaica or Trinidad and Tobago). Atmosphere: From both, expect raucous crowds before (national holidays will be called, fans will make noise/set off fireworks all night outside of your hotel room) and during the game (you may deal with batteries, bottles of water/piss, etc). Honduras Style of Play: Fast, physical, dirty. Their spine is made up of Maynor Figueroa, Boniek Garcia, Alberth Elis, and Romell Quioto. All play in the Texas heat, 3 of them for the Houston Dynamo, and they're the bell-weather for the team. In particular, Elis and Quioto will give the most trouble. Really good wingers, fast and physical. As an Earthquakes fan, they've torn my team up, and if you let Honduras absorb pressure and get either guy one into a 1-on-1 matchup on the outside, game over. They will get off a decent cross or shot, almost guaranteed. That is their main attacking threat, although Lozano is decent. On set-pieces, I think Honduras' main competence is on corners. Boniek can serve in good ones. Nobody that I've seen can really hit good dead balls otherwise. They have two main weaknesses. First, they struggle to chase games. Pinto (who led Costa Rica in the 2014 World Cup, FYI) loves a 5-man backline, his teams have always been defense-first, and they've always struggled when going down a goal. This happened with Costa Rica, Columbia, Costa Rica (again), and Honduras is no exception. Second, they struggle away from home. When it's not 1:00 PM, 95 degrees/80 percent humidity, in San Pedro Sula, suddenly Honduras doesn't do so well, so if you can get a point away, you're pretty set at home. Panama Style of Play: Technical, physical, playing through the central midfield. Panama likes to play through Godoy, Cooper, and Quintero. When Godoy is on, he's an extremely good destroyer who plays both sides of the ball, setting up and stopping attacks. Cooper and Quintero will be the main outlets for Panamanians under pressure. Cooper's good with the ball at his feet, and Quintero's basically a winger who can cut inside really well. Torres and Baloy are really big, bruising CB's, but they're often in card trouble. On set pieces, Gaby Torres serves a mean cross, and Blas Perez is an old target forward with a ton of goals and experience that can get on the end of some of those balls. Panama's IMO an overall more balanced team. Their main weakness seems to be mental fortitude. They seem to choke during big games, and the Hondurans don't, which is why Honduras has WC appearances, and Panama does not. In the last cycle, we knocked them out in Estadio Rommell with a B-team, and of course last night they waltzed into a 4-0 buzz-saw (a scoreline that flattered Panama) instead of bunkering for a point. If you thought the penalty was questionable last night, prepare yourselves for more of the same. The phrase "Solo en CONCACAF" gets thrown around a lot, because the CONCACAF refs let guys get away with murder. The Panamanians will ticky-tack foul you all game, but the Hondurans will just straight up kick the snot out of you, so if the Socceroos aren't mentally prepared for that, they will be in for a rough time. I always like watching the Socceroos play, maybe because they seem so stylistically-similar to the US, and are also usually underdogs, so I hope you get through to the WC. Hope this helps, good luck in the next leg with Syria and beyond (unless you play us :b ). welcome to the forum. i really like your style of analysis. how would you say the same thing about the australian team to say someone from honduras? Are we allowed to answer that? :)
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quickflick
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Great post, gunnerfan7
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quickflick
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+x+xPenalty wasn't there for sure but we got the rub of the green in the last match when Thailand had a clear penalty turned down. Fact of the matter is that Ange simply hasn't got a lot to play with. Not really his responsibility when supposed 'international' standard players can't trap a ball, can't make a basic pass, can't cross, can't finish basic chances, look cumbersome and lost on the field....... apart from Mooy the rest of the squad is sub standard. Not a good sign that there seems to be so many changes to the team from game to game at this stage of qualification. The last 2 matches have been completely embarrassing against such weak opponents. Struggling to put away Thailand and Syria!! Massive danger signs.I honestly don't think we are going to qualify. :D:D:D at the idea we had the rub of the green against thailand we had 45 shots and hit the post how many times? What has that got to do with the referees decisions? We had the run of the green in terms of decisions going our way. If you think the referee for the Syria match was corrupt, what do you think of the referee for the Thailand match?
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quickflick
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+x+x+x+xIt's funny that people actually expect us to control an entire match on the road from start to finish, of course Syria are gonna get a bit of momentum at some point in the game, the expectations placed on a very average Socceroos outfit are laughable, we should be wrapped with the draw and away goal. These guys are no mugs, you don't get draws against South Korea, Iran and Japan (friendly) if you are completely rubbish. good points. meanwhile as a queensland state of origin fan I'm baffled by comments that "we should focus on our performance rather than the ref" queensland fans focus on the ref after every loss.....like every single time. And they have always played like champs If you complain about a single refereeing decision, it comes across as poor sportsmanship. Sometimes the referee makes the wrong call and sometimes he makes a rough call (the latter being the case here, imo). Particularly if you play poorly and that happens, then it just comes across as making excuses. It's more becoming of a gentleman to silently pissed off and not to make a fuss. Ricky Ponting style (barring the occasional outburst) and to praise the opponent if they deserve it. By and large, there's no conspiracy. The annoying thing is that we, Aussies, have a bit of a reputation for whinging.The reputation is largely unfair (we're no worse, or better, than anybody else). But if people go about making a fuss, particularly when this isn't exactly Graham Poll at the World Cup and we just play average for too much of the match, it really worsens that reputation. who cares. It was a terrible decision and probably corrupt so I'm calling it out. In the low scoring sport of football single decisions matter a lot What evidence have you got of corruption? I'm sorry but it's wholly unsubstantiated. The penalty was, imo, rough. But there was contact, was there not? Strictly speaking, it can be called an infringement. The referee is human. He can only call it for what he thinks it is. This wasn't, strictly speaking, a huge mistake but even if it had been; people make mistakes. I think it was rough (because I give people the benefit of the doubt) and it's ever so tough to be consistent about that sort of contact if you're quite that punitive. But there's just no evidence of a conspiracy. And, even though football is a low scoring game, you get decisions go your way too (providing there's no conspiracy). Look at the match against Thailand. There were far worse decisions made in that (from which Australia benefited) than anything in the match against Syria.
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playmaker11
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Khribin, Masri and Mobayed are suspended, yes?
By now, American Samoa must have realised that Australias 22-0 win over Tonga two days earlier was no fluke.
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johnszasz
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+xKhribin, Masri and Mobayed are suspended, yes? Khribin yes and the other two appear so as well. I've not found any confirmation but the captain said they'd be missing a few players. Their captain will start now plus that Swedish based left back will likely be in due to his level.
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grazorblade
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+x+x+x+x+xIt's funny that people actually expect us to control an entire match on the road from start to finish, of course Syria are gonna get a bit of momentum at some point in the game, the expectations placed on a very average Socceroos outfit are laughable, we should be wrapped with the draw and away goal. These guys are no mugs, you don't get draws against South Korea, Iran and Japan (friendly) if you are completely rubbish. good points. meanwhile as a queensland state of origin fan I'm baffled by comments that "we should focus on our performance rather than the ref" queensland fans focus on the ref after every loss.....like every single time. And they have always played like champs If you complain about a single refereeing decision, it comes across as poor sportsmanship. Sometimes the referee makes the wrong call and sometimes he makes a rough call (the latter being the case here, imo). Particularly if you play poorly and that happens, then it just comes across as making excuses. It's more becoming of a gentleman to silently pissed off and not to make a fuss. Ricky Ponting style (barring the occasional outburst) and to praise the opponent if they deserve it. By and large, there's no conspiracy. The annoying thing is that we, Aussies, have a bit of a reputation for whinging.The reputation is largely unfair (we're no worse, or better, than anybody else). But if people go about making a fuss, particularly when this isn't exactly Graham Poll at the World Cup and we just play average for too much of the match, it really worsens that reputation. who cares. It was a terrible decision and probably corrupt so I'm calling it out. In the low scoring sport of football single decisions matter a lot What evidence have you got of corruption? I'm sorry but it's wholly unsubstantiated. The penalty was, imo, rough. But there was contact, was there not? Strictly speaking, it can be called an infringement. The referee is human. He can only call it for what he thinks it is. This wasn't, strictly speaking, a huge mistake but even if it had been; people make mistakes. I think it was rough (because I give people the benefit of the doubt) and it's ever so tough to be consistent about that sort of contact if you're quite that punitive. But there's just no evidence of a conspiracy. And, even though football is a low scoring game, you get decisions go your way too (providing there's no conspiracy). Look at the match against Thailand. There were far worse decisions made in that (from which Australia benefited) than anything in the match against Syria. it wasnt a harsh pen it was a corrupt pen leckie literally jumps up and down. corrupt pens happen in this sport. No conspiracy needed
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quickflick
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+x+x+x+x+x+xIt's funny that people actually expect us to control an entire match on the road from start to finish, of course Syria are gonna get a bit of momentum at some point in the game, the expectations placed on a very average Socceroos outfit are laughable, we should be wrapped with the draw and away goal. These guys are no mugs, you don't get draws against South Korea, Iran and Japan (friendly) if you are completely rubbish. good points. meanwhile as a queensland state of origin fan I'm baffled by comments that "we should focus on our performance rather than the ref" queensland fans focus on the ref after every loss.....like every single time. And they have always played like champs If you complain about a single refereeing decision, it comes across as poor sportsmanship. Sometimes the referee makes the wrong call and sometimes he makes a rough call (the latter being the case here, imo). Particularly if you play poorly and that happens, then it just comes across as making excuses. It's more becoming of a gentleman to silently pissed off and not to make a fuss. Ricky Ponting style (barring the occasional outburst) and to praise the opponent if they deserve it. By and large, there's no conspiracy. The annoying thing is that we, Aussies, have a bit of a reputation for whinging.The reputation is largely unfair (we're no worse, or better, than anybody else). But if people go about making a fuss, particularly when this isn't exactly Graham Poll at the World Cup and we just play average for too much of the match, it really worsens that reputation. who cares. It was a terrible decision and probably corrupt so I'm calling it out. In the low scoring sport of football single decisions matter a lot What evidence have you got of corruption? I'm sorry but it's wholly unsubstantiated. The penalty was, imo, rough. But there was contact, was there not? Strictly speaking, it can be called an infringement. The referee is human. He can only call it for what he thinks it is. This wasn't, strictly speaking, a huge mistake but even if it had been; people make mistakes. I think it was rough (because I give people the benefit of the doubt) and it's ever so tough to be consistent about that sort of contact if you're quite that punitive. But there's just no evidence of a conspiracy. And, even though football is a low scoring game, you get decisions go your way too (providing there's no conspiracy). Look at the match against Thailand. There were far worse decisions made in that (from which Australia benefited) than anything in the match against Syria. it wasnt a harsh pen it was a corrupt pen leckie literally jumps up and down. corrupt pens happen in this sport. No conspiracy needed If there's no conspiracy, it's not corrupt. For it to be corrupt, there needs to be an agenda or bias. That's the implication of corruption in this context. Otherwise, at worst, it's a simple mistake on the ref's part (which is hardly a cardinal sin). In this case, it's not even a mistake. It's simply rather a puritanical interpretation of the laws of the game. In the course of jumping up and down, Mathew Leckie made contact. For that reason, it can be deemed an infringement. Nevertheless, it's a puritanical sort of ruling. But there's no evidence to substantiate any claim of corruption.
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gunnerfan7
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+x+x+x4-0 Anyone who knows CONCACAF have an opinion on who is a better potential opponent for us - Panama or Honduras? Gotchu fam. First, a little about the region. North America (minus Canada) is king, and Costa Rica is pretty strong. The Caribbean is 90 percent minnows playing on swampy, pitted cricket fields. And Central America is home to the middling sides in the region. The Central American teams break down into 3 tiers. You have Costa Rica at the top, obviously, with good athleticism, excellent technical ability, and a great GK. At the bottom, you've got Nicaragua (more of a baseball nation) Guatemala (always a bridesmaid, never good enough to be a threat in the Hex) and El Salvador (see Guatemala, but fewer long-balls, and dirtier fouls). Honduras and Panama are right smack dab in the middle. Neither good enough to challenge the top 3 of the US/Mexico/CR, but better than the obligatory Caribbean team (Jamaica or Trinidad and Tobago). Atmosphere: From both, expect raucous crowds before (national holidays will be called, fans will make noise/set off fireworks all night outside of your hotel room) and during the game (you may deal with batteries, bottles of water/piss, etc). Honduras Style of Play: Fast, physical, dirty. Their spine is made up of Maynor Figueroa, Boniek Garcia, Alberth Elis, and Romell Quioto. All play in the Texas heat, 3 of them for the Houston Dynamo, and they're the bell-weather for the team. In particular, Elis and Quioto will give the most trouble. Really good wingers, fast and physical. As an Earthquakes fan, they've torn my team up, and if you let Honduras absorb pressure and get either guy one into a 1-on-1 matchup on the outside, game over. They will get off a decent cross or shot, almost guaranteed. That is their main attacking threat, although Lozano is decent. On set-pieces, I think Honduras' main competence is on corners. Boniek can serve in good ones. Nobody that I've seen can really hit good dead balls otherwise. They have two main weaknesses. First, they struggle to chase games. Pinto (who led Costa Rica in the 2014 World Cup, FYI) loves a 5-man backline, his teams have always been defense-first, and they've always struggled when going down a goal. This happened with Costa Rica, Columbia, Costa Rica (again), and Honduras is no exception. Second, they struggle away from home. When it's not 1:00 PM, 95 degrees/80 percent humidity, in San Pedro Sula, suddenly Honduras doesn't do so well, so if you can get a point away, you're pretty set at home. Panama Style of Play: Technical, physical, playing through the central midfield. Panama likes to play through Godoy, Cooper, and Quintero. When Godoy is on, he's an extremely good destroyer who plays both sides of the ball, setting up and stopping attacks. Cooper and Quintero will be the main outlets for Panamanians under pressure. Cooper's good with the ball at his feet, and Quintero's basically a winger who can cut inside really well. Torres and Baloy are really big, bruising CB's, but they're often in card trouble. On set pieces, Gaby Torres serves a mean cross, and Blas Perez is an old target forward with a ton of goals and experience that can get on the end of some of those balls. Panama's IMO an overall more balanced team. Their main weakness seems to be mental fortitude. They seem to choke during big games, and the Hondurans don't, which is why Honduras has WC appearances, and Panama does not. In the last cycle, we knocked them out in Estadio Rommell with a B-team, and of course last night they waltzed into a 4-0 buzz-saw (a scoreline that flattered Panama) instead of bunkering for a point. If you thought the penalty was questionable last night, prepare yourselves for more of the same. The phrase "Solo en CONCACAF" gets thrown around a lot, because the CONCACAF refs let guys get away with murder. The Panamanians will ticky-tack foul you all game, but the Hondurans will just straight up kick the snot out of you, so if the Socceroos aren't mentally prepared for that, they will be in for a rough time. I always like watching the Socceroos play, maybe because they seem so stylistically-similar to the US, and are also usually underdogs, so I hope you get through to the WC. Hope this helps, good luck in the next leg with Syria and beyond (unless you play us :b ). welcome to the forum. i really like your style of analysis. how would you say the same thing about the australian team to say someone from honduras? Not really possible. Like I said, I've watched maybe 10 Socceroos matches in the last 4-5 years. By comparison, I haven't missed a USMNT match since 2010. And since I also keep up with the YNT's, I see a lot of CONCACAF play at multiple levels. The U17/U20/U23 teams mirror the style of the senior teams, so watching the 2017 U20 CONCACAF Championship was like watching a younger, less-skilled version of USA-Honduras. Same terrible refs, by the way, Honduras made probably 7-8 studs-up tackles, injured 4 of our players (we ran out of subs for them, so tournament MVP Erik Palmer-Brown needed to play injured)... and earned a single yellow card for a tactical foul stopping a counterattack. If I had to hazard a guess, you're setup a little bit like the US, in terms of strengths/weaknesses, but I'd have to watch a game or two more recently. The last time I saw Australia was at the Confed Cup, and I imagine that Asian WCQ is a different beast.
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Pasquali
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt's funny that people actually expect us to control an entire match on the road from start to finish, of course Syria are gonna get a bit of momentum at some point in the game, the expectations placed on a very average Socceroos outfit are laughable, we should be wrapped with the draw and away goal. These guys are no mugs, you don't get draws against South Korea, Iran and Japan (friendly) if you are completely rubbish. good points. meanwhile as a queensland state of origin fan I'm baffled by comments that "we should focus on our performance rather than the ref" queensland fans focus on the ref after every loss.....like every single time. And they have always played like champs If you complain about a single refereeing decision, it comes across as poor sportsmanship. Sometimes the referee makes the wrong call and sometimes he makes a rough call (the latter being the case here, imo). Particularly if you play poorly and that happens, then it just comes across as making excuses. It's more becoming of a gentleman to silently pissed off and not to make a fuss. Ricky Ponting style (barring the occasional outburst) and to praise the opponent if they deserve it. By and large, there's no conspiracy. The annoying thing is that we, Aussies, have a bit of a reputation for whinging.The reputation is largely unfair (we're no worse, or better, than anybody else). But if people go about making a fuss, particularly when this isn't exactly Graham Poll at the World Cup and we just play average for too much of the match, it really worsens that reputation. who cares. It was a terrible decision and probably corrupt so I'm calling it out. In the low scoring sport of football single decisions matter a lot What evidence have you got of corruption? I'm sorry but it's wholly unsubstantiated. The penalty was, imo, rough. But there was contact, was there not? Strictly speaking, it can be called an infringement. The referee is human. He can only call it for what he thinks it is. This wasn't, strictly speaking, a huge mistake but even if it had been; people make mistakes. I think it was rough (because I give people the benefit of the doubt) and it's ever so tough to be consistent about that sort of contact if you're quite that punitive. But there's just no evidence of a conspiracy. And, even though football is a low scoring game, you get decisions go your way too (providing there's no conspiracy). Look at the match against Thailand. There were far worse decisions made in that (from which Australia benefited) than anything in the match against Syria. it wasnt a harsh pen it was a corrupt pen leckie literally jumps up and down. corrupt pens happen in this sport. No conspiracy needed If there's no conspiracy, it's not corrupt. For it to be corrupt, there needs to be an agenda or bias. That's the implication of corruption in this context. Otherwise, at worst, it's a simple mistake on the ref's part (which is hardly a cardinal sin). In this case, it's not even a mistake. It's simply rather a puritanical interpretation of the laws of the game. In the course of jumping up and down, Mathew Leckie made contact. For that reason, it can be deemed an infringement. Nevertheless, it's a puritanical sort of ruling. But there's no evidence to substantiate any claim of corruption. If referees always gave penalties for that, then there would be 10 penalties a game
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quickflick
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt's funny that people actually expect us to control an entire match on the road from start to finish, of course Syria are gonna get a bit of momentum at some point in the game, the expectations placed on a very average Socceroos outfit are laughable, we should be wrapped with the draw and away goal. These guys are no mugs, you don't get draws against South Korea, Iran and Japan (friendly) if you are completely rubbish. good points. meanwhile as a queensland state of origin fan I'm baffled by comments that "we should focus on our performance rather than the ref" queensland fans focus on the ref after every loss.....like every single time. And they have always played like champs If you complain about a single refereeing decision, it comes across as poor sportsmanship. Sometimes the referee makes the wrong call and sometimes he makes a rough call (the latter being the case here, imo). Particularly if you play poorly and that happens, then it just comes across as making excuses. It's more becoming of a gentleman to silently pissed off and not to make a fuss. Ricky Ponting style (barring the occasional outburst) and to praise the opponent if they deserve it. By and large, there's no conspiracy. The annoying thing is that we, Aussies, have a bit of a reputation for whinging.The reputation is largely unfair (we're no worse, or better, than anybody else). But if people go about making a fuss, particularly when this isn't exactly Graham Poll at the World Cup and we just play average for too much of the match, it really worsens that reputation. who cares. It was a terrible decision and probably corrupt so I'm calling it out. In the low scoring sport of football single decisions matter a lot What evidence have you got of corruption? I'm sorry but it's wholly unsubstantiated. The penalty was, imo, rough. But there was contact, was there not? Strictly speaking, it can be called an infringement. The referee is human. He can only call it for what he thinks it is. This wasn't, strictly speaking, a huge mistake but even if it had been; people make mistakes. I think it was rough (because I give people the benefit of the doubt) and it's ever so tough to be consistent about that sort of contact if you're quite that punitive. But there's just no evidence of a conspiracy. And, even though football is a low scoring game, you get decisions go your way too (providing there's no conspiracy). Look at the match against Thailand. There were far worse decisions made in that (from which Australia benefited) than anything in the match against Syria. it wasnt a harsh pen it was a corrupt pen leckie literally jumps up and down. corrupt pens happen in this sport. No conspiracy needed If there's no conspiracy, it's not corrupt. For it to be corrupt, there needs to be an agenda or bias. That's the implication of corruption in this context. Otherwise, at worst, it's a simple mistake on the ref's part (which is hardly a cardinal sin). In this case, it's not even a mistake. It's simply rather a puritanical interpretation of the laws of the game. In the course of jumping up and down, Mathew Leckie made contact. For that reason, it can be deemed an infringement. Nevertheless, it's a puritanical sort of ruling. But there's no evidence to substantiate any claim of corruption. If referees always gave penalties for that, then there would be 10 penalties a game You're not wrong. Thank goodness they don't. Overzealous refereeing does not, necessarily amount to corruption, however. I don't regard this decision as good refereeing. I can simply understand how/why it was given. Imo, good refereeing lets the game flow (where possible), does not make assumptions, gives the benefit of the doubt (but is still firm) and is consistent. This decision was not in keeping with those notions. Therefore an average and rough call. But nothing to indicate corruption. And by way of contrast to the favourable calls Australia received in the match before, well...
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grazorblade
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt's funny that people actually expect us to control an entire match on the road from start to finish, of course Syria are gonna get a bit of momentum at some point in the game, the expectations placed on a very average Socceroos outfit are laughable, we should be wrapped with the draw and away goal. These guys are no mugs, you don't get draws against South Korea, Iran and Japan (friendly) if you are completely rubbish. good points. meanwhile as a queensland state of origin fan I'm baffled by comments that "we should focus on our performance rather than the ref" queensland fans focus on the ref after every loss.....like every single time. And they have always played like champs If you complain about a single refereeing decision, it comes across as poor sportsmanship. Sometimes the referee makes the wrong call and sometimes he makes a rough call (the latter being the case here, imo). Particularly if you play poorly and that happens, then it just comes across as making excuses. It's more becoming of a gentleman to silently pissed off and not to make a fuss. Ricky Ponting style (barring the occasional outburst) and to praise the opponent if they deserve it. By and large, there's no conspiracy. The annoying thing is that we, Aussies, have a bit of a reputation for whinging.The reputation is largely unfair (we're no worse, or better, than anybody else). But if people go about making a fuss, particularly when this isn't exactly Graham Poll at the World Cup and we just play average for too much of the match, it really worsens that reputation. who cares. It was a terrible decision and probably corrupt so I'm calling it out. In the low scoring sport of football single decisions matter a lot What evidence have you got of corruption? I'm sorry but it's wholly unsubstantiated. The penalty was, imo, rough. But there was contact, was there not? Strictly speaking, it can be called an infringement. The referee is human. He can only call it for what he thinks it is. This wasn't, strictly speaking, a huge mistake but even if it had been; people make mistakes. I think it was rough (because I give people the benefit of the doubt) and it's ever so tough to be consistent about that sort of contact if you're quite that punitive. But there's just no evidence of a conspiracy. And, even though football is a low scoring game, you get decisions go your way too (providing there's no conspiracy). Look at the match against Thailand. There were far worse decisions made in that (from which Australia benefited) than anything in the match against Syria. it wasnt a harsh pen it was a corrupt pen leckie literally jumps up and down. corrupt pens happen in this sport. No conspiracy needed In this case, it's not even a mistake. Lol lame attempts at comedy aside, the contact was on him. He had the space. The decision was corrupt and there is nothing you can instruct the players to avoid that. You could say concede less balls into the box, fair enough. But if you are closing down the game you will concede balls into the box. You could say concede less chances, but it wasn't a pen it was a corrupt decision so there is nothing you can instruct your players to avoid it (other than suicidal defending where you dont make any clearances). You could focus on the genuine chances you gave away, but you should analyse those regardless of the result. In the end we won 1-0 but corruption meant we needed to win 2-0 to go into the next game with that situation. Hopefully we won't face that again in the next game or are good enough to avoid it mattering
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Bitedge
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gunnerfan7, you are mentioning bad CONCACAF refs. I assume in an intercontinental playoff the refs would be non-CONCACAF and non-AFC.
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johnszasz
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+xgunnerfan7, you are mentioning bad CONCACAF refs. I assume in an intercontinental playoff the refs would be non-CONCACAF and non-AFC. I recall a Hungarian in 97 vs Iran and we had a Spanish and Danish refs against Uruguay in 05.
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johnszasz
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Still no goals in Costa Rica Honduras game.
Terrible refereeing has seen Ghana launch a protest.
Croatia have sacked their coach. I'm glad the media isn't on a campaign to get Ange sacked. Things are pretty civil.
Looks like a lot of regulars won't be in Russia. It'll be a refreshing tournament I think.
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grazorblade
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+xStill no goals in Costa Rica Honduras game. Terrible refereeing has seen Ghana launch a protest. Croatia have sacked their coach. I'm glad the media isn't on a campaign to get Ange sacked. Things are pretty civil. Looks like a lot of regulars won't be in Russia. It'll be a refreshing tournament I think. agreed its probably true if we spent huge money we can get a better coach than ange but that money would need to be siphoned from somewhere do you siphon it from the a league? Youth development? All these areas need the money to make sure we have a better team to begin with Its possible the corporate cut is outsized as some allege (I woudn't know how to check that) but in the absense of that its getting rid of the football heirachy that is value for money and taking away money from areas that need strengthening
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Decentric
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+x+x+x+x4-0 Anyone who knows CONCACAF have an opinion on who is a better potential opponent for us - Panama or Honduras? Gotchu fam. First, a little about the region. North America (minus Canada) is king, and Costa Rica is pretty strong. The Caribbean is 90 percent minnows playing on swampy, pitted cricket fields. And Central America is home to the middling sides in the region. The Central American teams break down into 3 tiers. You have Costa Rica at the top, obviously, with good athleticism, excellent technical ability, and a great GK. At the bottom, you've got Nicaragua (more of a baseball nation) Guatemala (always a bridesmaid, never good enough to be a threat in the Hex) and El Salvador (see Guatemala, but fewer long-balls, and dirtier fouls). Honduras and Panama are right smack dab in the middle. Neither good enough to challenge the top 3 of the US/Mexico/CR, but better than the obligatory Caribbean team (Jamaica or Trinidad and Tobago). Atmosphere: From both, expect raucous crowds before (national holidays will be called, fans will make noise/set off fireworks all night outside of your hotel room) and during the game (you may deal with batteries, bottles of water/piss, etc). Honduras Style of Play: Fast, physical, dirty. Their spine is made up of Maynor Figueroa, Boniek Garcia, Alberth Elis, and Romell Quioto. All play in the Texas heat, 3 of them for the Houston Dynamo, and they're the bell-weather for the team. In particular, Elis and Quioto will give the most trouble. Really good wingers, fast and physical. As an Earthquakes fan, they've torn my team up, and if you let Honduras absorb pressure and get either guy one into a 1-on-1 matchup on the outside, game over. They will get off a decent cross or shot, almost guaranteed. That is their main attacking threat, although Lozano is decent. On set-pieces, I think Honduras' main competence is on corners. Boniek can serve in good ones. Nobody that I've seen can really hit good dead balls otherwise. They have two main weaknesses. First, they struggle to chase games. Pinto (who led Costa Rica in the 2014 World Cup, FYI) loves a 5-man backline, his teams have always been defense-first, and they've always struggled when going down a goal. This happened with Costa Rica, Columbia, Costa Rica (again), and Honduras is no exception. Second, they struggle away from home. When it's not 1:00 PM, 95 degrees/80 percent humidity, in San Pedro Sula, suddenly Honduras doesn't do so well, so if you can get a point away, you're pretty set at home. Panama Style of Play: Technical, physical, playing through the central midfield. Panama likes to play through Godoy, Cooper, and Quintero. When Godoy is on, he's an extremely good destroyer who plays both sides of the ball, setting up and stopping attacks. Cooper and Quintero will be the main outlets for Panamanians under pressure. Cooper's good with the ball at his feet, and Quintero's basically a winger who can cut inside really well. Torres and Baloy are really big, bruising CB's, but they're often in card trouble. On set pieces, Gaby Torres serves a mean cross, and Blas Perez is an old target forward with a ton of goals and experience that can get on the end of some of those balls. Panama's IMO an overall more balanced team. Their main weakness seems to be mental fortitude. They seem to choke during big games, and the Hondurans don't, which is why Honduras has WC appearances, and Panama does not. In the last cycle, we knocked them out in Estadio Rommell with a B-team, and of course last night they waltzed into a 4-0 buzz-saw (a scoreline that flattered Panama) instead of bunkering for a point. If you thought the penalty was questionable last night, prepare yourselves for more of the same. The phrase "Solo en CONCACAF" gets thrown around a lot, because the CONCACAF refs let guys get away with murder. The Panamanians will ticky-tack foul you all game, but the Hondurans will just straight up kick the snot out of you, so if the Socceroos aren't mentally prepared for that, they will be in for a rough time. I always like watching the Socceroos play, maybe because they seem so stylistically-similar to the US, and are also usually underdogs, so I hope you get through to the WC. Hope this helps, good luck in the next leg with Syria and beyond (unless you play us :b ). welcome to the forum. i really like your style of analysis. how would you say the same thing about the australian team to say someone from honduras? Not really possible. Like I said, I've watched maybe 10 Socceroos matches in the last 4-5 years. By comparison, I haven't missed a USMNT match since 2010. And since I also keep up with the YNT's, I see a lot of CONCACAF play at multiple levels. The U17/U20/U23 teams mirror the style of the senior teams, so watching the 2017 U20 CONCACAF Championship was like watching a younger, less-skilled version of USA-Honduras. Same terrible refs, by the way, Honduras made probably 7-8 studs-up tackles, injured 4 of our players (we ran out of subs for them, so tournament MVP Erik Palmer-Brown needed to play injured)... and earned a single yellow card for a tactical foul stopping a counterattack. If I had to hazard a guess, you're setup a little bit like the US, in terms of strengths/weaknesses, but I'd have to watch a game or two more recently. The last time I saw Australia was at the Confed Cup, and I imagine that Asian WCQ is a different beast. Welcome to the forum, Gunnerfan7.
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Bundoora B
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+x+x+x+x4-0 Anyone who knows CONCACAF have an opinion on who is a better potential opponent for us - Panama or Honduras? Gotchu fam. First, a little about the region. North America (minus Canada) is king, and Costa Rica is pretty strong. The Caribbean is 90 percent minnows playing on swampy, pitted cricket fields. And Central America is home to the middling sides in the region. The Central American teams break down into 3 tiers. You have Costa Rica at the top, obviously, with good athleticism, excellent technical ability, and a great GK. At the bottom, you've got Nicaragua (more of a baseball nation) Guatemala (always a bridesmaid, never good enough to be a threat in the Hex) and El Salvador (see Guatemala, but fewer long-balls, and dirtier fouls). Honduras and Panama are right smack dab in the middle. Neither good enough to challenge the top 3 of the US/Mexico/CR, but better than the obligatory Caribbean team (Jamaica or Trinidad and Tobago). Atmosphere: From both, expect raucous crowds before (national holidays will be called, fans will make noise/set off fireworks all night outside of your hotel room) and during the game (you may deal with batteries, bottles of water/piss, etc). Honduras Style of Play: Fast, physical, dirty. Their spine is made up of Maynor Figueroa, Boniek Garcia, Alberth Elis, and Romell Quioto. All play in the Texas heat, 3 of them for the Houston Dynamo, and they're the bell-weather for the team. In particular, Elis and Quioto will give the most trouble. Really good wingers, fast and physical. As an Earthquakes fan, they've torn my team up, and if you let Honduras absorb pressure and get either guy one into a 1-on-1 matchup on the outside, game over. They will get off a decent cross or shot, almost guaranteed. That is their main attacking threat, although Lozano is decent. On set-pieces, I think Honduras' main competence is on corners. Boniek can serve in good ones. Nobody that I've seen can really hit good dead balls otherwise. They have two main weaknesses. First, they struggle to chase games. Pinto (who led Costa Rica in the 2014 World Cup, FYI) loves a 5-man backline, his teams have always been defense-first, and they've always struggled when going down a goal. This happened with Costa Rica, Columbia, Costa Rica (again), and Honduras is no exception. Second, they struggle away from home. When it's not 1:00 PM, 95 degrees/80 percent humidity, in San Pedro Sula, suddenly Honduras doesn't do so well, so if you can get a point away, you're pretty set at home. Panama Style of Play: Technical, physical, playing through the central midfield. Panama likes to play through Godoy, Cooper, and Quintero. When Godoy is on, he's an extremely good destroyer who plays both sides of the ball, setting up and stopping attacks. Cooper and Quintero will be the main outlets for Panamanians under pressure. Cooper's good with the ball at his feet, and Quintero's basically a winger who can cut inside really well. Torres and Baloy are really big, bruising CB's, but they're often in card trouble. On set pieces, Gaby Torres serves a mean cross, and Blas Perez is an old target forward with a ton of goals and experience that can get on the end of some of those balls. Panama's IMO an overall more balanced team. Their main weakness seems to be mental fortitude. They seem to choke during big games, and the Hondurans don't, which is why Honduras has WC appearances, and Panama does not. In the last cycle, we knocked them out in Estadio Rommell with a B-team, and of course last night they waltzed into a 4-0 buzz-saw (a scoreline that flattered Panama) instead of bunkering for a point. If you thought the penalty was questionable last night, prepare yourselves for more of the same. The phrase "Solo en CONCACAF" gets thrown around a lot, because the CONCACAF refs let guys get away with murder. The Panamanians will ticky-tack foul you all game, but the Hondurans will just straight up kick the snot out of you, so if the Socceroos aren't mentally prepared for that, they will be in for a rough time. I always like watching the Socceroos play, maybe because they seem so stylistically-similar to the US, and are also usually underdogs, so I hope you get through to the WC. Hope this helps, good luck in the next leg with Syria and beyond (unless you play us :b ). welcome to the forum. i really like your style of analysis. how would you say the same thing about the australian team to say someone from honduras? Not really possible. Like I said, I've watched maybe 10 Socceroos matches in the last 4-5 years. By comparison, I haven't missed a USMNT match since 2010. And since I also keep up with the YNT's, I see a lot of CONCACAF play at multiple levels. The U17/U20/U23 teams mirror the style of the senior teams, so watching the 2017 U20 CONCACAF Championship was like watching a younger, less-skilled version of USA-Honduras. Same terrible refs, by the way, Honduras made probably 7-8 studs-up tackles, injured 4 of our players (we ran out of subs for them, so tournament MVP Erik Palmer-Brown needed to play injured)... and earned a single yellow card for a tactical foul stopping a counterattack. If I had to hazard a guess, you're setup a little bit like the US, in terms of strengths/weaknesses, but I'd have to watch a game or two more recently. The last time I saw Australia was at the Confed Cup, and I imagine that Asian WCQ is a different beast. fair enough. it's just that we often get zero outside analysis with any substance. there is a kind of 'cant see the forrest for the trees' thing going on within the australian game. we're just not significant enough in world football to get outside commentary with any depth.
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City Sam
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+xgunnerfan7, you are mentioning bad CONCACAF refs. I assume in an intercontinental playoff the refs would be non-CONCACAF and non-AFC. I think it'll probably be more the fact a ref would be afraid to make a big call against one of those teams in Honduras or Panama.
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City Sam
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt's funny that people actually expect us to control an entire match on the road from start to finish, of course Syria are gonna get a bit of momentum at some point in the game, the expectations placed on a very average Socceroos outfit are laughable, we should be wrapped with the draw and away goal. These guys are no mugs, you don't get draws against South Korea, Iran and Japan (friendly) if you are completely rubbish. good points. meanwhile as a queensland state of origin fan I'm baffled by comments that "we should focus on our performance rather than the ref" queensland fans focus on the ref after every loss.....like every single time. And they have always played like champs If you complain about a single refereeing decision, it comes across as poor sportsmanship. Sometimes the referee makes the wrong call and sometimes he makes a rough call (the latter being the case here, imo). Particularly if you play poorly and that happens, then it just comes across as making excuses. It's more becoming of a gentleman to silently pissed off and not to make a fuss. Ricky Ponting style (barring the occasional outburst) and to praise the opponent if they deserve it. By and large, there's no conspiracy. The annoying thing is that we, Aussies, have a bit of a reputation for whinging.The reputation is largely unfair (we're no worse, or better, than anybody else). But if people go about making a fuss, particularly when this isn't exactly Graham Poll at the World Cup and we just play average for too much of the match, it really worsens that reputation. who cares. It was a terrible decision and probably corrupt so I'm calling it out. In the low scoring sport of football single decisions matter a lot What evidence have you got of corruption? I'm sorry but it's wholly unsubstantiated. The penalty was, imo, rough. But there was contact, was there not? Strictly speaking, it can be called an infringement. The referee is human. He can only call it for what he thinks it is. This wasn't, strictly speaking, a huge mistake but even if it had been; people make mistakes. I think it was rough (because I give people the benefit of the doubt) and it's ever so tough to be consistent about that sort of contact if you're quite that punitive. But there's just no evidence of a conspiracy. And, even though football is a low scoring game, you get decisions go your way too (providing there's no conspiracy). Look at the match against Thailand. There were far worse decisions made in that (from which Australia benefited) than anything in the match against Syria. it wasnt a harsh pen it was a corrupt pen leckie literally jumps up and down. corrupt pens happen in this sport. No conspiracy needed If there's no conspiracy, it's not corrupt. For it to be corrupt, there needs to be an agenda or bias. That's the implication of corruption in this context. Otherwise, at worst, it's a simple mistake on the ref's part (which is hardly a cardinal sin). In this case, it's not even a mistake. It's simply rather a puritanical interpretation of the laws of the game. In the course of jumping up and down, Mathew Leckie made contact. For that reason, it can be deemed an infringement. Nevertheless, it's a puritanical sort of ruling. But there's no evidence to substantiate any claim of corruption. No it is a massive mistake, that horrific decision compared with the horrific refereeing in favour of Syria the entire 90 minutes, there was a definite bias.
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The Fans
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I'm not sure that the ref against syria was compromised, other than the penalty (horrendous decision) he was pretty fair. But I am pretty confident the one against thailand was. Absolutely everything went in our favour.
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Gruen
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Corrupt is a big claim, it indicates that the referee made a decision to award the penalty for personal gain, perhaps money. I don't think that any poster on here can have evidence of the refereee being paid off to make that call so I don't think it is right to call the decision corrupt. As has been mentioned that against Thailand the referee made a massive error when Sainsbury chased back and tackled from behind. It was either a penalty or a red card depending whether it happened just inside or just outside the box, it was very close. This was a worse decision than the penalty call against Leckie, I cannot see any reason not to give a penalty or a red card, which was a massive error, was he corrupt as well?
On the non-Australian broadcast the Iranian referee was described as being the best in Asia, I do not know whether this is true, but it seems even he can make a massive mistake. He was taken in by the way Al Somah launched himself forward and threw his arms up, it definitely should not have happened, but on one viewing at full speed it is harder to judge.
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JoyfulPenguin
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+xCorrupt is a big claim, it indicates that the referee made a decision to award the penalty for personal gain, perhaps money. I don't think that any poster on here can have evidence of the refereee being paid off to make that call so I don't think it is right to call the decision corrupt. As has been mentioned that against Thailand the referee made a massive error when Sainsbury chased back and tackled from behind. It was either a penalty or a red card depending whether it happened just inside or just outside the box, it was very close. This was a worse decision than the penalty call against Leckie, I cannot see any reason not to give a penalty or a red card, which was a massive error, was he corrupt as well? On the non-Australian broadcast the Iranian referee was described as being the best in Asia, I do not know whether this is true, but it seems even he can make a massive mistake. He was taken in by the way Al Somah launched himself forward and threw his arms up, it definitely should not have happened, but on one viewing at full speed it is harder to judge. Wholeheartedly agree, unless you have actual proof of corruption and bribery don't just throw that at someone. While I disagree with the decision penalties like that have been given in the past and it was most likely a simple error.
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grazorblade
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sure if you are in a position to worry about fines (or trying to prove it in a court of law) you would need a high standard of proof
But if you just want the most likely explanation of events then corruption is more likely than mistake
mistakes that blatant rarely happens with the exception that the league is super low level (which it isn't) or the referee has his view obscured (which it wasn't) or there was heavy traffic or lots of players in motion (which didn't happen)
its actually hard to find a similarly poor pen by a similarly high level ref (there was a dodgy handball nigeria v argentina which comes close). But its not hard to find examples of corrupt refs. Given investigation is rare (whose going to bother unless they get an anonymous tip) and even when white collar corruption is investigated due to plausible accusation of wrongdoing conviction is even rarer. So the number of instances of corruption would out number the number of times someone is caught by perhaps a few thousand fold.
In any case even if people don't like saying corruption is more probable the more important takeaway is the score shouldn't factor into their post game autopsy any more than if the ball rebounded off an astroid and went into the goal. You can focus on the things more on your control (juric, leckie etc missing easy chances, the time we had the post hit in defence) but you are going to focus on those things anyway
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paladisious
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1-1 between Costa Rica and Honduras, leaving Panama and Honduras both with ten points, USA in third with 12.
Honduras are at home to Mexico, Panama host Costa Rica and USA are away at T&T on the last matchday. With a +5 GD USA will be safe with an away draw against the group minnows, while Panama basically has to do better against Costa Rica than Honduras do against Mexico to keep 4th spot.
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grazorblade
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+x1-1 between Costa Rica and Honduras, leaving Panama and Honduras both with ten points, USA in third with 12. Honduras are at home to Mexico, Panama host Costa Rica and USA are away at T&T on the last matchday. With a +5 GD USA will be safe with an away draw against the group minnows, while Panama basically has to do better against Costa Rica than Honduras do against Mexico to keep 4th spot. nailbiting finish. Panama look weaker on paper but quick on the counter
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