It would be interesting to add up the new contract wage value of the players they lost to estimate how much it would have cost the club to keep them together.

More fool the club that allowed these players to run out contracts and leave for free transfers rather than blaming the salary cap.

Transfers between A-League clubs should be allowed and clubs should look at tying down younger players for longer rather than always being available for Milligan's and Djite's, McGowan's etc to fall back on. Only a few clubs have acted like real clubs in the transfer market over the years. It is far easier to blame the FFA salary cap and stick your hand out for cash.

"That's how we do it here."

Bluebird
We live in Australia and salary caps are part of the norm in our sporting codes
With Adelaide you have given a poor example - the players wanted to move on

"They couldn't keep their championship squad under the cap" .. thats not true, several of teh players were sold for a transfer fee so they chose to sell them and it had nothing to do with the cap

100% right

Australia has bought into a rob from the rich and give to the poor paradox

In a truly national game where not all markets are equal there are larger consequences as big markets are torn down so smaller markets can have their turn

Still laughing at the FFA giving WSW everything to make sure they were a success, and then tearing them down for being too good

Fold the league.

Just look at what happened to Adelaide United. They couldn't keep their championship squad under the cap. They go from 1st with average crowds of 11287 to almost last with 9514 - the second lowest in club history. That's not competitive balance it's capitol punishment. Any value that was built in a year was blown to pieces. It's amazing the Australian model of tireless value destruction. Take a club on a growth trajectory and tear a million off their revenue next season. And Dave wonders why the league isn't growing.

Hellas is the broken model
They are the disease that was the NSL which held our beautiful game back for so many years
They are gone and football is thriving

The advertising on FTA is a good start

The FFA never get the aleague advertising really cranked up till after AFL and NRL season is over. Though i have seen a bit of advertising on ch10 about the games they are showing.

The game in general is getting a decent amount of coverage with the matildas success and the Socceroos WC qualifiers, no need to stress.

South Melbourne and NSL clubs have absolutely nothing to do with the broken model. It is not about them and it never has been

IMO the resolution to the broken model is a few changes:
1/ Separation of the FFA from League (removes self interest) and the FFA get x% of league revenue for good o the game
2/ Separation of club from league (removes self interest and encourages investment). League management gets (for example) $5m for league management and marketing. Not a dollar more
3/ A fixed % of all other shared revenue (TV deal and league sponsorship) to A League, W League, and Lower tier clubs (ie a ratio of 3:1:1). This adds transparency and predictability. Club owners can then choose whether its enough or leave the game if they don't think its enough. This also ensures league viability because if owners walk the base amount may be enough to keep a minimal club ticking over
4/ No sibling sharing bullshit. No sharing of finals revenue, merchandise revenue, etc... Let clubs keep what they earn with their brand. Lower clubs benefit from TV money which they would not get if it wasn't for derbies and the effort of teams in big games. The one for all mentality is just greed and bullshit
5/ No competitive restraints aside from the 3+1 rule which needs to be uniform across the whole game. Clubs need to protect their investment. There are consequences of failure just as much as there are rewards for success. Why should players and coaches lose professional contracts just because they were too good? Why should clubs lose sponsorship and fans just because fans of other teams were bored? This is not an objective of football and never will be. The sooner it is fucked off from our game the better

What I have described can happen in a single tier model as we have seen with the J League and K League. But only with a good expansion model and only with P/R down the track. The league will not die if City win 3 titles in a row. There are also ACL spots to play for, and there will always be big games for smaller teams (look at CCM crowds against WSW)

We need a second division for more playing numbers, to consolidate the next best talent onto a central platform, and to bring meaningful games to secondary regions (ie- Tasmania, Geelong and Wollongong). Initially FFA cup games and A League preseason hit outs. Ultimately P/R

Whether these are NSL or NPL clubs is up to the best tender. They shouldn't be specified but nor should they be excluded. If South Melbourne are the Melbourne team for the second tier then so be it

As the tiers spread downwards there will be more opportunities for the teams that have something to offer to step up and then create their own destiny. There will always be a state league / NPL structure but due to the complexity it will always be amateur. These teams serve purpose in the FFA cup and preseason hit outs. Also not everybody plays football so they can play in the A League. We need football at all levels


The NSL club / A League club debate is just a distraction that could lead us in the wrong direction. As is the Australian way debate. We need to implement a sensible, viable and professional model. Whatever answers they give us and whatever clubs we are left with we need to accept

To put it bluntly What if people just aren't interested in a young 3rd rate soccer competition ? How would the FFA change that ?

At this level I could not agree more.

However what annoys the hell out of me are two broad issues.... that replacing the current system with a full FIFA system is the answer and this is based on because it works overseas.... second everything is the fault of FFA.

That the current system is broken needs to be understood, how and why its broken.... Is it FFA incompetence.... is it A-League club incompetence... is it the PFA gouging to much of the pie ..... is it a lack of respect to older clubs...

As an example there is no reason to believe that South Melbourne would bring a higher level of expertise and management skill  than any existing A-League team.

The history of professional Football in Australia be it FFA or NSL is the professional clubs have done SFA to grow the game... both SA &  FFA and their professional clubs have failed to connect to the Football base.. Its the local regional  associations that have driven the player base growth... 

IMO over my entire life of watching Football only ONE person has been able to connect to the player base and JON and Mark Coral pissed him off...

Nick Tana who started Perth Glory and was copied by The Northern Spirit approached the associations and their grass roots park teams and connected in a manner that made them feel important and he gave them things.... his history is there for all to see..

IMO and my biggest gripe about FFA incompetence is the inability to create the environment whereby A-League clubs connect to the player base... we don't even have to look for the market its already there.... but its not only FFA its the A-League clubs and the former NSL clubs  who also fail this.

In fact during the the dark times of SA the NSL clubs were almost at war with association rep teams...

As I see it saying the current system is failing ..... but without a detailed analysis on why its failing.... it will lead to even greater failure and frustration....

I sat on a Football committee of a reasonable large suburban club and was on the committee from the early 90's until about Hal 5 or 6.... SFC, Olympic, Parramatta Power, never even gave us a phone call.... The Northern Spirit sent us pamphlets, free tickets, info nights ... the results are in your face obvious... 

Steven Lowy comes from quite a wealthy background and has no idea IMO how players, parents, friends of local park clubs feel and their wants... this is a huge problem and my hope when issues clam down is GOR [A-League Head] will have an understanding as he is from an association background.

So my two cents worth is we need to understand the problem before we can offer solutions.... IMO many don't understand the problem... solve how to connect to the player base and the system will essentially look after itself... the market is there its in front of our eyes ... it has been the same for 60 years .... 

If the current model wasn't broken I wouldn't have a problem with it

If a stand alone tier with hand picked teams was splitting hairs as an alternative to multi tiers then it would be little more than personal preference to argue one way or another. There are many ways to achieve the same outcome and it really is the outcome that matters

But the current model does not achieve its outcomes. It is broken and the costs have inflated. If Lowy said give me control of the governing body and 10 years from now I'll give you a game that requires $60m-$70m a year from the governing body to run and it will only have 10 teams - its a safe bet to say he wouldn't have the job

The want for a "FIFA model" isn't about a romantic ideology of falling in line with the EPL or even the best leagues in our own confederation. Its about finding a way forward on the most basic objectives of establishing a professional, viable and competitive football league that serves as a proper pathway to the top for players

Every day we don't have this is another day that is added to the gap between the demise of the NSL golden generation and the introduction of the next gen of players

You are somebody who understands market trends. Surely you of all people will appreciate that the opportunity to take a TV deal in the hundred millions is now. The opportunity to take ridiculous amounts of owner investment is now. It is not an inevitability that if we play towards this magic "10-15 years" that these opportunities will be there for our game

We are already on the back foot by not having a culturally established footing when the game was semi professional like the AFL. We were definitely the Johnny come lates of the FTA opportunities. Time and patience is no something we have to play out

The myths that our game pander to are ridiculous. We must kick off in October. We must be on a major network. We must have a salary cap...

The "not going to happen overnight" is the message that should have been given to those who wanted to see the A League on level pegging with the AFL / NRL after its first few years of existence. Instead of building a proper framework in a sensible direction with the careful planning as you have stated, the sole goal has been metrics, metrics, metrics. We cant have a team on the gold coast because then our crowd averages will go down

The A League might have over inflated costs but it is still relatively new and relatively cheap. It would not be harmful to scrap the cap, introduce low cost clubs, and build a bridge between the top tier and a second tier. It wont take as long as you think either

^^^^^

Bluebird

I not overly fussed one way or the other however I can see the point you are making.

For me personally I am after a 9 months or there about's season... again my preference is a 16 team 30 round season + finals + international breaks ... so about 39 weeks...

The bigger picture for want of a better word is to create wrong word to plan and develop were a 16 team league is self funding and this means creating / expanding a much bigger football viewing market and as I have indicated that is far more complex than it appears..

We as in Football is getting to the point where we can challenge the monster that is the AFL... in-spite of all its money and influence the AFL penetration  into NSW/ ACT/ QLD has stalled and in QLD is going backwards.... TV rating in NSW / ACT & QLD are poor and aside from the Swans crowds are poor by AFL standards....

The challenge is change cultural perceptions of Football within the Australian context... as I said shouting a slogan were now have a full FIFA model is way too simplistic.

Careful planning for expansion, a second division and P & R is essential ... and to be patient as it is not going to happen overnight... 

I think we can both agree if we started March and finished October it would be a disaster. Not just stadia availability but also trying to hit casual sports fans up for 2-3 games a season when the AFL / NRL are doing the same thing. If football was to become a winter code it would struggle

But as you have described it, the 2 month inevitable overlap (unless we shorten our season) is a moot point. Casual fans still have the opportunity to attend 2-3 games a season. Semi committed fans have the opportunity to attend the core parts of their team's journey. And rusted on fans most likely don't give a shit about the AFL / NRL. If there is enough hype and reason for people to get excited then the order of months doesn't matter if we are clever with our fixturing - as has been proven with my stats above

What is not moot is the impact of the start date on the players and the sport
. Major European leagues start in August which take away fans and players if we are absent
. Australians are more likely to be involved in Socceroos games in Sept / Oct than major tournaments in May / June
. The quality of the league in season 6 shows the advantage of kicking off in cooler months
. Hit outs against big European clubs become preseason games instead of post season games (which people currently want to do away with)
. The sport can capitalise on the momentum of the world cup if membership drives and the lead up to the A League follows immediately over the next 4-6 weeks instead of a 2 month gap
. The ACL has proven to disrupt the A League which wont be as much the case if we finished around March
. Stadia is more available in September when AFL / NRL games are diminishing as opposed to April when they are in full swing

The August kick off did not have an impact on fans. Fox were also happy to offer us $60m a year in season 5. We did not have trouble attracting investors or sponsors. We even had a club playing in the heart of the AFL with over 20k members

So what would the football reasons be for playing April / May instead of August / September?

The only one I can think of is players are match fit for World Cup games which is a disadvantage if the league finishes April. By the time the league is ready to be a serious platform for the critical world cup games there will be more teams, more games, and international breaks to rectify that

Bluebird

Its the seasons length overall.... if we start in October and finish in June or start in August and finish in April... I honestly don't see an issue...

Personally the latter we play into the NRL and AFL regular season I think is a good thing...

This lol.

Only reason I know is from Facebook posts.

-PB

The problem with averages is they are deceptive. Just because the league is riding the success of the Sydney derby it doesn't mean all regions are in a better place now that the league is kicking off in October. If you were to compare season 5 (10 teams) against season 7 (10 teams), with an August vs October kick off right beside one another you'll find the following


Green is where season 5 was higher. Yellow is where season 7 was higher
As I said, only BR, CCM and NCJ "benefited" from the October kick off. And that's because their attendance figures in season 5 were so low, an increase was an inevitability. They even faired better in season 6

Most teams managed a higher average, a higher top, and a higher low than in season 7. What you are describing as growth than stabilisation is clearly other factors:
. The introduction of WSW and the Sydney derby
. The loss of GCU and their 3.5k average
. SBS coming on board and FTA ratings

As Waz said, we can easily hold off the derby games until a few weeks later and get the same result over the entirety of the season. A late August kick off in a proper H/A fixture means teams will manage 2-3 games of overlap at most. No different to what they have to manage at the end. The important thing is that the A League generates a sensible amount of hype to launch the season which they stopped doing in season 4

The Matildas have proven that even in the heart of the AFL / NRL finals, as a womens sport that has struggled to gain mainstream traction, it is possible to generate hype and interest. They did a remarkable job and became household names. Everybody wanted a piece of them

A lack of hype and kicking off in a 2 week gap when there are no major mainstream events is not a substitute for proper management of a season launch. Even worse when it comes at the expense of players match fit during core Socceroos games and using 2 cooler months to break in squads

The A League is riding on constant season 6 and NSL comparisons to vindicate its current direction

^^^^^
Decentric

You have hit on a couple of points that to some extent plague Football in Australia..... even if we take all the ills of FFA and reverse them somehow the effect would not anywhere near what some think...

The NRL & AFL in dollars, exposure, tradition are not going away to shrink into the night because we say have a full FIFA model.

To me it seems a new idea seems to take hold and this new idea will turn everything around... if only the suits would ?????...

The late Johnny Warren at a gala day in Newcastle in 1965, said look at all these players we will soon be number one.... Thats over 50 years ago....

The answers or answers are not simple we have and unbelievably bias and local sport sports editorial management ... no FTA would broadcast the A-League thats how little they value it... we could not even give it away... you could argue if X or Y where in charge it may have been different... maybe but not hugely ...

The Football market is no where near the size some seem to think.... the answer lies in changing human behavioural patterns .... meaning getting the playing base to watch screens and attend games...the answer is to build Football up in the minds of the community as a whole and that means FTA TV, FTA radio, social media, sponsors etc...  

FFA's lack of being able to lead and direct the conversation and seemingly going from one major issue to another has not helped at all and has done damage and slowed things down a lot ... however the solutions are not simple ... expansion is a must IMO followed by a second division and then P & R but it needs detailed planning

Home and away season average ratings taken from Patrick Delaney's speech to Victory business lunch (except for 2016/17).




Home and away average attendance taken from ultimatealeague.com


PS.
Seems the graphs have disappeared on me.  If anyone wants them to look at PM me with an email address.

They actually hadn't jumped that much. Season 6 was a train wreck of a season so the straight line between two points approach is deceptive

If you compare season 5 to season 7 you'll see that only 3 of the 9 clubs playing in both saw an increase in average and highest attendance in season 7. They were CCM, NCJ and BR who had a terrible season 5. Average ratings would have been down as there were plenty more games and a lot of them mid week

These kind of myths and stats manipulation are damaging to the game. There is a real cost in not playing now. If the offset of this cost is a fine set of the empire's new clothes then it was all for naught

Gyfox,
Thanks for the stats, they make for interesting reading, and probably justify (to Fox and the FFA, but not to the fans) the season starting after the NRL & AFL seasons. But for purely football reasons, and many of them, we all know that we need a longer season. So something needs to be done, we need to bite the bullet and start the season earlier.

Good post with the stats.

Don't know the answer to the last sentence.

 There is also a dichotomy between FFA admin and the FFA Technical Department.

The latter also desperately wants the game to grow.

The former are concerned about finances and are risk averse.

It seems there could now be two distinct groups of football supporters in Australia that could ultimately see the demise of football.

The inept governance of FFA admin is a  major contributor. FFA is constantly telling us bad news. When they release supposed good news, most think it is disingenuous.

The groups are:

1. Fans who have been desperate for  a pro league in Australia. For about 8 years since 2005 there was a feel good feeling about the rise and rise of football in Oz. Since then it has become axiomatic in fans' eyes, and all other active stakeholders in football, that the game must expand beyond 10 HAL teams - and soon. This entails those former  starry eyed fans who have recently become disgruntled. The FFA Cup has given us a taste of how inclusive football can be. This could lead to less and less fans attending the HAL in its current format  so that it emulates the NSL, rendering it unsustainable.


2. There is the Eurosnob, or offshore football fan. These characters prefer to watch football on TV. They may have kids who play, they may even coach football, but all of them are, and will always be, beastly careless about football in Australia. The only time they show any interest is when a European or South American team visits Australia.
Many prefer watching league, union, AFL as a domestic football code. Most people I know off forum who claim they like football fall into this category. Many even support, play for and are involved with NPL teams. Australian football beyond their state and club has no context for them unless their NPL club plays an Australian mainland club in the FFA Cup or NPL Cup.





I even foresee a worst case scenario where the current HAL folds, and the highest level of football will be current NPL - an amateur or semi-pro game like the current NZ scenario, minus Wellington.

We will be unlikely to qualify for any World Cups again. We will live in a country where AFL and league rule supreme and most fans' participation in football will be watching European football on TV. We won't even be able to afford  to field teams in Asian senior and underage WC and Asian Cup qualification campaigns. Our best scenario will be to return to Oceania, where they won't want us. 

In the earlier days of Lowy/O'Neill and Lowy/Buckley, there was usually a newer exciting development about to occur  in football in the imminent future. The Lowy senior/ Lowy junior/ Gallop combo have been cynical harbingers of doom. 

When people who don't have the passion for the game and vision to grow it this is the consequence for it.

Even though TV audiences and crowds have gone up(slightly) there is a strong feeling out in the football community that the a-league and the game in general is lagging and everything else is standing still.

Who is to blame? Many factors but it has to start at head office at FFA HQ.

It seems that FFA admin are so entrenched in internal, or extraneous issues like governance and quashing HAL club owners' disquiet, they don't have any energy or time for bigger picture issues.

In Tasmania an almost flawless model was advanced for a HAL team, but it was rejected on spurious grounds. FFA admin keep postponing important decisions. To tell Belteky/Stamroulis that can have a team anywhere else besides Tasmania is ludicrous.

Also, they've privately stated however good a bid is from South Melb they will never be granted a HAL licence, because of deep entrenched hatred of the club from the  Lowy family. This is similar to the way Tony Labozetta operated!

Actually the fields are in FAR better condition at that time of year than any other (Aug-October), no concerts, Super Rugby is long gone, NRL and AFL winding down in amount of games and cricket hasn't yet started.