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Roar in me Blood
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+x+x+x+x+xDepends entirely on the circumstances and words used. For now we really just have to wait and see what actually happens. At least, being a court case, the details should eventually be published. If Kerr lost her head about something and called them filthy pommy bastards then there is a racial tone that we would perhaps not even blink at here. If she lost her head and called them filthy black bastards then there is a racial tone that is unacceptable. 4 days of trial seems awfully heavy so maybe there is more to it than a casual abusive rant or maybe the case has a political agenda on racism, abuse of police generally, or something else entirely. No point guessing how much of a beat up it is or not until we do know more. High profile sportspeople will always attract heavy media comment and interest because they are so much in the media eye - and historically plenty of them across all sports have shown themselves to be newsworthy twats at some point. On the criminal aspect, there are times when that is what is required to break the historic and traditional acceptance of racial slurs. Plenty of non-racial slurs and abuse available to choose from. That is all I am saying on that score. Hey RIMB, not sure I can see the difference in intent between "filthy pommy bastard" and "filthy black bastard"??? Racism is racism no? I agree with others that being criminally prosecuted is extremely far fetched but why did the silly girl not at least advise the FA a year ago? That's my point somewhat Mono. Being labelled a pommy bastard is racist in principle but Aussies v Poms is an accepted 'user friendly' racist label. It is still meant to indicate that each others' race is a bad thing without really being so. 'Black' is a different thing because historically 'being a black' was a deliberate and intended racial put down - with real social stigma and centuries of victims and suffering behind it. 'Wogs' to me is halfway between the two, because it was intended and applied as a put down but to my understanding was accepted by a proud group of people as a badge of Italo-Australian belonging and community. Rats of Tobruk style. Edit: Did I rob Greco-Australians of that proud honorific too? I thought it applied to the Italian immigrants first and foremost, but now I think on it, it had much more global application. Apologies. The way words are used is the issue. Sent to prison for an adjective used stupidly is wrong. Sent to prison for an adjective that is genuinely believed by the user to be a racial put down is a different thing. How the f*ck do you determine which is which?! Especially when no-one will admit they meant it in a bad way afterwards. Not the forum for it, but I just thought I'd try and explain my comment more clearly. The problem with Anglo's having opinions on European immigrants and the racism they were subjected to, the impact it had, and how the immigrants dealt with it is that they simply have NFI as they weren't on the receiving end of it. Implying that racism towards European immigrants is somehow half that towards blacks is based on what lived experience? My dad, and his three brothers-in-law arrived here in the 1960's-and my own experience growing up in the 1970's and 80's Melbourne we could tell you some stories about racism in Melbourne that might have you re-evaluate that opinion. Having said that for me its not that difficult-if you verbally threaten to harm someone physically then yes that's a crime. If you call someone names because of their ethnicity, or their skin color then you're a shit person, but you don't deserve to got to jail for it and I'm not going to have a mental break down or suicide over you being a shit person.
IMO the issue is all about proportionality. There's a perversity in this, a pleasure that some people take for seeing another person being disproportionately punished for a transgression against them. Its about revenge, not justice. IMO this makes them even bigger pieces of shit. Nah I dont read RIMBs take on this as anything of the sort to be honest. We all grew up here and Im sure, even though he may not have been personally subjected to the prejudice, would understand its meaning to "us" And as for the racism towards "new Australians" thats as old as the country itself. From the Chinese in the Goldfields to the early Irish/Scots/Welsh miners to pre and post war "wogsies" to Viets and Lebs in the 80s and 90s, to now the Sudanese, Indians and Middle Easterners.... Every wave gets met with resistance from the "locals" and every wave eventually is accepted for who they are and what they bring to the table. Nobody dares to tell the new migrant they have to eat meat pies, drink beer, beat their wives and go to the footy or else they can fuck off back home anymore.... My folks came from barefoot mountain goat villages too mate and the first few decades for them and us where horrific .... I get it, but OUR kids are growing up in an Australia that doesn't (except for our football club of choice of course, thanks to Lowy and the plastic fantasticers) even know what the term wog means let alone how to use it... I appreciate that Mono. My comment about the proud acceptance of 'wog' was based on what I took to be honest reporting many years ago and was based on the direct opinions of some of that generation speaking proudly about being called Wogs. They had taken the slur and made it something to respect about them. That is where my halfway reference is founded without meaning to imply that the actual racism behind it wasn't foul. I would not have formed the opinion without what I took to be legitimate information in the first place - so apologies Enzo if it came across as my own safe-life anglo thinking. I am half Pom and half Aussie (Aussie being the better half of course), and simply 'all anglo' to some so maybe that is why I am not bothered by the term pommy at all. We are all flavoured by our own experiences and circumstances whether they were our experiences or those we know of equally. The way all migrant groups are initially treated in this country's history is hideous. Time is a weakener of that, but rarely flushes completely clean in my view. We look to the future as Mono said in hope for kids just being kids and accepted.
When I wear their colours, I am the club.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Posts: 11K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+xDepends entirely on the circumstances and words used. For now we really just have to wait and see what actually happens. At least, being a court case, the details should eventually be published. If Kerr lost her head about something and called them filthy pommy bastards then there is a racial tone that we would perhaps not even blink at here. If she lost her head and called them filthy black bastards then there is a racial tone that is unacceptable. 4 days of trial seems awfully heavy so maybe there is more to it than a casual abusive rant or maybe the case has a political agenda on racism, abuse of police generally, or something else entirely. No point guessing how much of a beat up it is or not until we do know more. High profile sportspeople will always attract heavy media comment and interest because they are so much in the media eye - and historically plenty of them across all sports have shown themselves to be newsworthy twats at some point. On the criminal aspect, there are times when that is what is required to break the historic and traditional acceptance of racial slurs. Plenty of non-racial slurs and abuse available to choose from. That is all I am saying on that score. Hey RIMB, not sure I can see the difference in intent between "filthy pommy bastard" and "filthy black bastard"??? Racism is racism no? I agree with others that being criminally prosecuted is extremely far fetched but why did the silly girl not at least advise the FA a year ago? That's my point somewhat Mono. Being labelled a pommy bastard is racist in principle but Aussies v Poms is an accepted 'user friendly' racist label. It is still meant to indicate that each others' race is a bad thing without really being so. 'Black' is a different thing because historically 'being a black' was a deliberate and intended racial put down - with real social stigma and centuries of victims and suffering behind it. 'Wogs' to me is halfway between the two, because it was intended and applied as a put down but to my understanding was accepted by a proud group of people as a badge of Italo-Australian belonging and community. Rats of Tobruk style. Edit: Did I rob Greco-Australians of that proud honorific too? I thought it applied to the Italian immigrants first and foremost, but now I think on it, it had much more global application. Apologies. The way words are used is the issue. Sent to prison for an adjective used stupidly is wrong. Sent to prison for an adjective that is genuinely believed by the user to be a racial put down is a different thing. How the f*ck do you determine which is which?! Especially when no-one will admit they meant it in a bad way afterwards. Not the forum for it, but I just thought I'd try and explain my comment more clearly. The problem with Anglo's having opinions on European immigrants and the racism they were subjected to, the impact it had, and how the immigrants dealt with it is that they simply have NFI as they weren't on the receiving end of it. Implying that racism towards European immigrants is somehow half that towards blacks is based on what lived experience? My dad, and his three brothers-in-law arrived here in the 1960's-and my own experience growing up in the 1970's and 80's Melbourne we could tell you some stories about racism in Melbourne that might have you re-evaluate that opinion. Having said that for me its not that difficult-if you verbally threaten to harm someone physically then yes that's a crime. If you call someone names because of their ethnicity, or their skin color then you're a shit person, but you don't deserve to got to jail for it and I'm not going to have a mental break down or suicide over you being a shit person.
IMO the issue is all about proportionality. There's a perversity in this, a pleasure that some people take for seeing another person being disproportionately punished for a transgression against them. Its about revenge, not justice. IMO this makes them even bigger pieces of shit. Nah I dont read RIMBs take on this as anything of the sort to be honest. We all grew up here and Im sure, even though he may not have been personally subjected to the prejudice, would understand its meaning to "us" And as for the racism towards "new Australians" thats as old as the country itself. From the Chinese in the Goldfields to the early Irish/Scots/Welsh miners to pre and post war "wogsies" to Viets and Lebs in the 80s and 90s, to now the Sudanese, Indians and Middle Easterners.... Every wave gets met with resistance from the "locals" and every wave eventually is accepted for who they are and what they bring to the table. Nobody dares to tell the new migrant they have to eat meat pies, drink beer, beat their wives and go to the footy or else they can fuck off back home anymore.... My folks came from barefoot mountain goat villages too mate and the first few decades for them and us where horrific .... I get it, but OUR kids are growing up in an Australia that doesn't (except for our football club of choice of course, thanks to Lowy and the plastic fantasticers) even know what the term wog means let alone how to use it... I appreciate that Mono. My comment about the proud acceptance of 'wog' was based on what I took to be honest reporting many years ago and was based on the direct opinions of some of that generation speaking proudly about being called Wogs. They had taken the slur and made it something to respect about them. That is where my halfway reference is founded without meaning to imply that the actual racism behind it wasn't foul. I would not have formed the opinion without what I took to be legitimate information in the first place - so apologies Enzo if it came across as my own safe-life anglo thinking. I am half Pom and half Aussie (Aussie being the better half of course), and simply 'all anglo' to some so maybe that is why I am not bothered by the term pommy at all. We are all flavoured by our own experiences and circumstances whether they were our experiences or those we know of equally. The way all migrant groups are initially treated in this country's history is hideous. Time is a weakener of that, but rarely flushes completely clean in my view. We look to the future as Mono said in hope for kids just being kids and accepted. Never completely clean, I agree.... but clean enough that we can all move on.... The 6th generation Chinese kid with the Pauline Hanson accent and the skip first name will still ALWAYS be a foreigner to some because of his appearance.... As for the term Pommy mate this was pretty much exclusively used as a term of endearment, even when it was to "bash" the whinging poms it was never really maliciously used. "Wog" on the other hand was a slur, plain and simple... A slang word used by the British to describe a virus that was infecting their purity of race in the Antipodes... often accompanied by "Greasy" or "Hairy" or "Dagoe" or "Spag" but NEVER said with same sort of jocularity as "Pommy" Enzo has a very clear and correct perspective about this, people of my (and I suspect Enzo and I are give or take the same age) age group were well and truly vilified horrendously because of our parents origin... If I had a dollar for every time I have been told to "go back to your own country" I could have flown to Athens and back a couple of dozen times :). I guess, similar to all other minorities, what doesn't kill you can only make you stronger... From the late 80s to 2010s we called ourselves wogs with pretend pride, it was an identity both imposed but also embraced with defiance... If society calls me a wog well then fuck you all I am a wog... sort of thinking... Things we thought where cringe and backwards were "Woggy" "wog-school" for Greek language classes, "wog loafers" for the leather slippers with the tassles (God how I miss those btw) "wog palaces" for brick veneer double stories out in Templestowe with marble balustrades and lions, "wog chariots" for the Kingswoods and Valiants our parents and later we drove, "wog ball" for the sport we all adored and watched as a family. My kids have grown up in a Melbourne far removed from that and they are genuinely perplexed when they hear me or my mates or older family refer to something as "woggy" it just doesn't exist in their life any more but ........... that just means that there is now another group lower than us on the totem pole of Australia society. They get called far far worse than even we did sometimes.... Sorry for the run down migrant memory lane... :P
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Enzo Bearzot
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Two good posts in a row- whats this place turning into?
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Coverdale
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+x+x+xDepends entirely on the circumstances and words used. For now we really just have to wait and see what actually happens. At least, being a court case, the details should eventually be published. If Kerr lost her head about something and called them filthy pommy bastards then there is a racial tone that we would perhaps not even blink at here. If she lost her head and called them filthy black bastards then there is a racial tone that is unacceptable. 4 days of trial seems awfully heavy so maybe there is more to it than a casual abusive rant or maybe the case has a political agenda on racism, abuse of police generally, or something else entirely. No point guessing how much of a beat up it is or not until we do know more. High profile sportspeople will always attract heavy media comment and interest because they are so much in the media eye - and historically plenty of them across all sports have shown themselves to be newsworthy twats at some point. On the criminal aspect, there are times when that is what is required to break the historic and traditional acceptance of racial slurs. Plenty of non-racial slurs and abuse available to choose from. That is all I am saying on that score. Hey RIMB, not sure I can see the difference in intent between "filthy pommy bastard" and "filthy black bastard"??? Racism is racism no? I agree with others that being criminally prosecuted is extremely far fetched but why did the silly girl not at least advise the FA a year ago? That's my point somewhat Mono. Being labelled a pommy bastard is racist in principle but Aussies v Poms is an accepted 'user friendly' racist label. It is still meant to indicate that each others' race is a bad thing without really being so. 'Black' is a different thing because historically 'being a black' was a deliberate and intended racial put down - with real social stigma and centuries of victims and suffering behind it. 'Wogs' to me is halfway between the two, because it was intended and applied as a put down but to my understanding was accepted by a proud group of people as a badge of Italo-Australian belonging and community. Rats of Tobruk style. Edit: Did I rob Greco-Australians of that proud honorific too? I thought it applied to the Italian immigrants first and foremost, but now I think on it, it had much more global application. Apologies. The way words are used is the issue. Sent to prison for an adjective used stupidly is wrong. Sent to prison for an adjective that is genuinely believed by the user to be a racial put down is a different thing. How the f*ck do you determine which is which?! Especially when no-one will admit they meant it in a bad way afterwards. Not the forum for it, but I just thought I'd try and explain my comment more clearly. Pommy is not a race. Nor is Australian.
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Coverdale
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+xWhy would you say anything until you've formally been charged? She was probably hoping the whole thing would blow over. Obviously someone has their nose out of joint and are looking to get her prosecuted now. Interesting to see her lawyers are trying to, if I'm reading this right, get the charges dismissed because due process wasn't followed not because they're fighting the accusation. Unless that's their opening gambit. Get the charges dropped and if that doesn't work then fight the charges. Probs a lesbian vendetta waz. Female cop?
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dirk vanadidas
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https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/harassment-stalking-racially-or-religiously-aggravated-harassment-stalking/The delay in prosecution is due the COVID backlog at the crown prosecution service coupled with the public sector still working from home
Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club
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dirk vanadidas
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+x+xWhy would you say anything until you've formally been charged? She was probably hoping the whole thing would blow over. Obviously someone has their nose out of joint and are looking to get her prosecuted now. Interesting to see her lawyers are trying to, if I'm reading this right, get the charges dismissed because due process wasn't followed not because they're fighting the accusation. Unless that's their opening gambit. Get the charges dropped and if that doesn't work then fight the charges. Probs a lesbian vendetta waz. Female cop? Correct
Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club
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LFC.
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+xWhy would you say anything until you've formally been charged? She was probably hoping the whole thing would blow over. Obviously someone has their nose out of joint and are looking to get her prosecuted now. Interesting to see her lawyers are trying to, if I'm reading this right, get the charges dismissed because due process wasn't followed not because they're fighting the accusation. Unless that's their opening gambit. Get the charges dropped and if that doesn't work then fight the charges. for when your at that level of profile and also Capt of the NT your duty and actually showing the care - I better just make a call to JJ and fill him in just in case this comes to head one day. Well it sure has and being in JJ's position let alone Gustaverson I'd be pretty pissed not been given a heads up considering everyone moves mountains for her due to her stature over the years I'm sure.
Love Football
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LFC.
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Enz MSC my fellow aussie wogs. Well said in your posts. I grew up Enzo's time and got to say I hated them calling us that, another, eyeti's not mentioned. RIMB, yer we kind of reversed it mentally but I tell you, we might say it in jest to accept it back then as time went by - more so you can't have a fight over it every single time mentioned but it was rude/insulting, putting us down. I felt sorry for them for seriously coming from euro stock was far more ahead than anglo/skip/conflict backgrounds back then. We ate like Kings hahaha but it was everyday food to us and we knew how to play football and shoot f ya.
Love Football
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SUTHERLANDBEAR
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xDepends entirely on the circumstances and words used. For now we really just have to wait and see what actually happens. At least, being a court case, the details should eventually be published. If Kerr lost her head about something and called them filthy pommy bastards then there is a racial tone that we would perhaps not even blink at here. If she lost her head and called them filthy black bastards then there is a racial tone that is unacceptable. 4 days of trial seems awfully heavy so maybe there is more to it than a casual abusive rant or maybe the case has a political agenda on racism, abuse of police generally, or something else entirely. No point guessing how much of a beat up it is or not until we do know more. High profile sportspeople will always attract heavy media comment and interest because they are so much in the media eye - and historically plenty of them across all sports have shown themselves to be newsworthy twats at some point. On the criminal aspect, there are times when that is what is required to break the historic and traditional acceptance of racial slurs. Plenty of non-racial slurs and abuse available to choose from. That is all I am saying on that score. Hey RIMB, not sure I can see the difference in intent between "filthy pommy bastard" and "filthy black bastard"??? Racism is racism no? I agree with others that being criminally prosecuted is extremely far fetched but why did the silly girl not at least advise the FA a year ago? That's my point somewhat Mono. Being labelled a pommy bastard is racist in principle but Aussies v Poms is an accepted 'user friendly' racist label. It is still meant to indicate that each others' race is a bad thing without really being so. 'Black' is a different thing because historically 'being a black' was a deliberate and intended racial put down - with real social stigma and centuries of victims and suffering behind it. 'Wogs' to me is halfway between the two, because it was intended and applied as a put down but to my understanding was accepted by a proud group of people as a badge of Italo-Australian belonging and community. Rats of Tobruk style. Edit: Did I rob Greco-Australians of that proud honorific too? I thought it applied to the Italian immigrants first and foremost, but now I think on it, it had much more global application. Apologies. The way words are used is the issue. Sent to prison for an adjective used stupidly is wrong. Sent to prison for an adjective that is genuinely believed by the user to be a racial put down is a different thing. How the f*ck do you determine which is which?! Especially when no-one will admit they meant it in a bad way afterwards. Not the forum for it, but I just thought I'd try and explain my comment more clearly. The problem with Anglo's having opinions on European immigrants and the racism they were subjected to, the impact it had, and how the immigrants dealt with it is that they simply have NFI as they weren't on the receiving end of it. Implying that racism towards European immigrants is somehow half that towards blacks is based on what lived experience? My dad, and his three brothers-in-law arrived here in the 1960's-and my own experience growing up in the 1970's and 80's Melbourne we could tell you some stories about racism in Melbourne that might have you re-evaluate that opinion. Having said that for me its not that difficult-if you verbally threaten to harm someone physically then yes that's a crime. If you call someone names because of their ethnicity, or their skin color then you're a shit person, but you don't deserve to got to jail for it and I'm not going to have a mental break down or suicide over you being a shit person.
IMO the issue is all about proportionality. There's a perversity in this, a pleasure that some people take for seeing another person being disproportionately punished for a transgression against them. Its about revenge, not justice. IMO this makes them even bigger pieces of shit. Nah I dont read RIMBs take on this as anything of the sort to be honest. We all grew up here and Im sure, even though he may not have been personally subjected to the prejudice, would understand its meaning to "us" And as for the racism towards "new Australians" thats as old as the country itself. From the Chinese in the Goldfields to the early Irish/Scots/Welsh miners to pre and post war "wogsies" to Viets and Lebs in the 80s and 90s, to now the Sudanese, Indians and Middle Easterners.... Every wave gets met with resistance from the "locals" and every wave eventually is accepted for who they are and what they bring to the table. Nobody dares to tell the new migrant they have to eat meat pies, drink beer, beat their wives and go to the footy or else they can fuck off back home anymore.... My folks came from barefoot mountain goat villages too mate and the first few decades for them and us where horrific .... I get it, but OUR kids are growing up in an Australia that doesn't (except for our football club of choice of course, thanks to Lowy and the plastic fantasticers) even know what the term wog means let alone how to use it... I appreciate that Mono. My comment about the proud acceptance of 'wog' was based on what I took to be honest reporting many years ago and was based on the direct opinions of some of that generation speaking proudly about being called Wogs. They had taken the slur and made it something to respect about them. That is where my halfway reference is founded without meaning to imply that the actual racism behind it wasn't foul. I would not have formed the opinion without what I took to be legitimate information in the first place - so apologies Enzo if it came across as my own safe-life anglo thinking. I am half Pom and half Aussie (Aussie being the better half of course), and simply 'all anglo' to some so maybe that is why I am not bothered by the term pommy at all. We are all flavoured by our own experiences and circumstances whether they were our experiences or those we know of equally. The way all migrant groups are initially treated in this country's history is hideous. Time is a weakener of that, but rarely flushes completely clean in my view. We look to the future as Mono said in hope for kids just being kids and accepted. Never completely clean, I agree.... but clean enough that we can all move on.... The 6th generation Chinese kid with the Pauline Hanson accent and the skip first name will still ALWAYS be a foreigner to some because of his appearance.... As for the term Pommy mate this was pretty much exclusively used as a term of endearment, even when it was to "bash" the whinging poms it was never really maliciously used. "Wog" on the other hand was a slur, plain and simple... A slang word used by the British to describe a virus that was infecting their purity of race in the Antipodes... often accompanied by "Greasy" or "Hairy" or "Dagoe" or "Spag" but NEVER said with same sort of jocularity as "Pommy" Enzo has a very clear and correct perspective about this, people of my (and I suspect Enzo and I are give or take the same age) age group were well and truly vilified horrendously because of our parents origin... If I had a dollar for every time I have been told to "go back to your own country" I could have flown to Athens and back a couple of dozen times :). I guess, similar to all other minorities, what doesn't kill you can only make you stronger... From the late 80s to 2010s we called ourselves wogs with pretend pride, it was an identity both imposed but also embraced with defiance... If society calls me a wog well then fuck you all I am a wog... sort of thinking... Things we thought where cringe and backwards were "Woggy" "wog-school" for Greek language classes, "wog loafers" for the leather slippers with the tassles (God how I miss those btw) "wog palaces" for brick veneer double stories out in Templestowe with marble balustrades and lions, "wog chariots" for the Kingswoods and Valiants our parents and later we drove, "wog ball" for the sport we all adored and watched as a family. My kids have grown up in a Melbourne far removed from that and they are genuinely perplexed when they hear me or my mates or older family refer to something as "woggy" it just doesn't exist in their life any more but ........... that just means that there is now another group lower than us on the totem pole of Australia society. They get called far far worse than even we did sometimes.... Sorry for the run down migrant memory lane... :P Sorry, but " wog " in Britain was derived from the " Golliwog " on the jam jar, referring to blacks only.
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SUTHERLANDBEAR
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+xDepends entirely on the circumstances and words used. For now we really just have to wait and see what actually happens. At least, being a court case, the details should eventually be published. If Kerr lost her head about something and called them filthy pommy bastards then there is a racial tone that we would perhaps not even blink at here. If she lost her head and called them filthy black bastards then there is a racial tone that is unacceptable. 4 days of trial seems awfully heavy so maybe there is more to it than a casual abusive rant or maybe the case has a political agenda on racism, abuse of police generally, or something else entirely. No point guessing how much of a beat up it is or not until we do know more. High profile sportspeople will always attract heavy media comment and interest because they are so much in the media eye - and historically plenty of them across all sports have shown themselves to be newsworthy twats at some point. On the criminal aspect, there are times when that is what is required to break the historic and traditional acceptance of racial slurs. Plenty of non-racial slurs and abuse available to choose from. That is all I am saying on that score. Hey RIMB, not sure I can see the difference in intent between "filthy pommy bastard" and "filthy black bastard"??? Racism is racism no? I agree with others that being criminally prosecuted is extremely far fetched but why did the silly girl not at least advise the FA a year ago? That's my point somewhat Mono. Being labelled a pommy bastard is racist in principle but Aussies v Poms is an accepted 'user friendly' racist label. It is still meant to indicate that each others' race is a bad thing without really being so. 'Black' is a different thing because historically 'being a black' was a deliberate and intended racial put down - with real social stigma and centuries of victims and suffering behind it. 'Wogs' to me is halfway between the two, because it was intended and applied as a put down but to my understanding was accepted by a proud group of people as a badge of Italo-Australian belonging and community. Rats of Tobruk style. Edit: Did I rob Greco-Australians of that proud honorific too? I thought it applied to the Italian immigrants first and foremost, but now I think on it, it had much more global application. Apologies. The way words are used is the issue. Sent to prison for an adjective used stupidly is wrong. Sent to prison for an adjective that is genuinely believed by the user to be a racial put down is a different thing. How the f*ck do you determine which is which?! Especially when no-one will admit they meant it in a bad way afterwards. Not the forum for it, but I just thought I'd try and explain my comment more clearly. Pommy is not a race. Nor is Australian. That is not how racism works in the 21st century. Nigger is not a race, but is racist if anyone except a black person says it.
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Enzo Bearzot
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xDepends entirely on the circumstances and words used. For now we really just have to wait and see what actually happens. At least, being a court case, the details should eventually be published. If Kerr lost her head about something and called them filthy pommy bastards then there is a racial tone that we would perhaps not even blink at here. If she lost her head and called them filthy black bastards then there is a racial tone that is unacceptable. 4 days of trial seems awfully heavy so maybe there is more to it than a casual abusive rant or maybe the case has a political agenda on racism, abuse of police generally, or something else entirely. No point guessing how much of a beat up it is or not until we do know more. High profile sportspeople will always attract heavy media comment and interest because they are so much in the media eye - and historically plenty of them across all sports have shown themselves to be newsworthy twats at some point. On the criminal aspect, there are times when that is what is required to break the historic and traditional acceptance of racial slurs. Plenty of non-racial slurs and abuse available to choose from. That is all I am saying on that score. Hey RIMB, not sure I can see the difference in intent between "filthy pommy bastard" and "filthy black bastard"??? Racism is racism no? I agree with others that being criminally prosecuted is extremely far fetched but why did the silly girl not at least advise the FA a year ago? That's my point somewhat Mono. Being labelled a pommy bastard is racist in principle but Aussies v Poms is an accepted 'user friendly' racist label. It is still meant to indicate that each others' race is a bad thing without really being so. 'Black' is a different thing because historically 'being a black' was a deliberate and intended racial put down - with real social stigma and centuries of victims and suffering behind it. 'Wogs' to me is halfway between the two, because it was intended and applied as a put down but to my understanding was accepted by a proud group of people as a badge of Italo-Australian belonging and community. Rats of Tobruk style. Edit: Did I rob Greco-Australians of that proud honorific too? I thought it applied to the Italian immigrants first and foremost, but now I think on it, it had much more global application. Apologies. The way words are used is the issue. Sent to prison for an adjective used stupidly is wrong. Sent to prison for an adjective that is genuinely believed by the user to be a racial put down is a different thing. How the f*ck do you determine which is which?! Especially when no-one will admit they meant it in a bad way afterwards. Not the forum for it, but I just thought I'd try and explain my comment more clearly. The problem with Anglo's having opinions on European immigrants and the racism they were subjected to, the impact it had, and how the immigrants dealt with it is that they simply have NFI as they weren't on the receiving end of it. Implying that racism towards European immigrants is somehow half that towards blacks is based on what lived experience? My dad, and his three brothers-in-law arrived here in the 1960's-and my own experience growing up in the 1970's and 80's Melbourne we could tell you some stories about racism in Melbourne that might have you re-evaluate that opinion. Having said that for me its not that difficult-if you verbally threaten to harm someone physically then yes that's a crime. If you call someone names because of their ethnicity, or their skin color then you're a shit person, but you don't deserve to got to jail for it and I'm not going to have a mental break down or suicide over you being a shit person.
IMO the issue is all about proportionality. There's a perversity in this, a pleasure that some people take for seeing another person being disproportionately punished for a transgression against them. Its about revenge, not justice. IMO this makes them even bigger pieces of shit. Nah I dont read RIMBs take on this as anything of the sort to be honest. We all grew up here and Im sure, even though he may not have been personally subjected to the prejudice, would understand its meaning to "us" And as for the racism towards "new Australians" thats as old as the country itself. From the Chinese in the Goldfields to the early Irish/Scots/Welsh miners to pre and post war "wogsies" to Viets and Lebs in the 80s and 90s, to now the Sudanese, Indians and Middle Easterners.... Every wave gets met with resistance from the "locals" and every wave eventually is accepted for who they are and what they bring to the table. Nobody dares to tell the new migrant they have to eat meat pies, drink beer, beat their wives and go to the footy or else they can fuck off back home anymore.... My folks came from barefoot mountain goat villages too mate and the first few decades for them and us where horrific .... I get it, but OUR kids are growing up in an Australia that doesn't (except for our football club of choice of course, thanks to Lowy and the plastic fantasticers) even know what the term wog means let alone how to use it... I appreciate that Mono. My comment about the proud acceptance of 'wog' was based on what I took to be honest reporting many years ago and was based on the direct opinions of some of that generation speaking proudly about being called Wogs. They had taken the slur and made it something to respect about them. That is where my halfway reference is founded without meaning to imply that the actual racism behind it wasn't foul. I would not have formed the opinion without what I took to be legitimate information in the first place - so apologies Enzo if it came across as my own safe-life anglo thinking. I am half Pom and half Aussie (Aussie being the better half of course), and simply 'all anglo' to some so maybe that is why I am not bothered by the term pommy at all. We are all flavoured by our own experiences and circumstances whether they were our experiences or those we know of equally. The way all migrant groups are initially treated in this country's history is hideous. Time is a weakener of that, but rarely flushes completely clean in my view. We look to the future as Mono said in hope for kids just being kids and accepted. Never completely clean, I agree.... but clean enough that we can all move on.... The 6th generation Chinese kid with the Pauline Hanson accent and the skip first name will still ALWAYS be a foreigner to some because of his appearance.... As for the term Pommy mate this was pretty much exclusively used as a term of endearment, even when it was to "bash" the whinging poms it was never really maliciously used. "Wog" on the other hand was a slur, plain and simple... A slang word used by the British to describe a virus that was infecting their purity of race in the Antipodes... often accompanied by "Greasy" or "Hairy" or "Dagoe" or "Spag" but NEVER said with same sort of jocularity as "Pommy" Enzo has a very clear and correct perspective about this, people of my (and I suspect Enzo and I are give or take the same age) age group were well and truly vilified horrendously because of our parents origin... If I had a dollar for every time I have been told to "go back to your own country" I could have flown to Athens and back a couple of dozen times :). I guess, similar to all other minorities, what doesn't kill you can only make you stronger... From the late 80s to 2010s we called ourselves wogs with pretend pride, it was an identity both imposed but also embraced with defiance... If society calls me a wog well then fuck you all I am a wog... sort of thinking... Things we thought where cringe and backwards were "Woggy" "wog-school" for Greek language classes, "wog loafers" for the leather slippers with the tassles (God how I miss those btw) "wog palaces" for brick veneer double stories out in Templestowe with marble balustrades and lions, "wog chariots" for the Kingswoods and Valiants our parents and later we drove, "wog ball" for the sport we all adored and watched as a family. My kids have grown up in a Melbourne far removed from that and they are genuinely perplexed when they hear me or my mates or older family refer to something as "woggy" it just doesn't exist in their life any more but ........... that just means that there is now another group lower than us on the totem pole of Australia society. They get called far far worse than even we did sometimes.... Sorry for the run down migrant memory lane... :P Sorry, but " wog " in Britain was derived from the " Golliwog " on the jam jar, referring to blacks only. We weren't discussing where from wog was derived from in Britain. There was a local TV ad for cold and flu medication, with the catchphrase "For when the winter wogs are with you"....we were a disease...my little brother who would have been around 8 at the time says "Do they drink that when we're with them?"
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Roar in me Blood
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xDepends entirely on the circumstances and words used. For now we really just have to wait and see what actually happens. At least, being a court case, the details should eventually be published. If Kerr lost her head about something and called them filthy pommy bastards then there is a racial tone that we would perhaps not even blink at here. If she lost her head and called them filthy black bastards then there is a racial tone that is unacceptable. 4 days of trial seems awfully heavy so maybe there is more to it than a casual abusive rant or maybe the case has a political agenda on racism, abuse of police generally, or something else entirely. No point guessing how much of a beat up it is or not until we do know more. High profile sportspeople will always attract heavy media comment and interest because they are so much in the media eye - and historically plenty of them across all sports have shown themselves to be newsworthy twats at some point. On the criminal aspect, there are times when that is what is required to break the historic and traditional acceptance of racial slurs. Plenty of non-racial slurs and abuse available to choose from. That is all I am saying on that score. Hey RIMB, not sure I can see the difference in intent between "filthy pommy bastard" and "filthy black bastard"??? Racism is racism no? I agree with others that being criminally prosecuted is extremely far fetched but why did the silly girl not at least advise the FA a year ago? That's my point somewhat Mono. Being labelled a pommy bastard is racist in principle but Aussies v Poms is an accepted 'user friendly' racist label. It is still meant to indicate that each others' race is a bad thing without really being so. 'Black' is a different thing because historically 'being a black' was a deliberate and intended racial put down - with real social stigma and centuries of victims and suffering behind it. 'Wogs' to me is halfway between the two, because it was intended and applied as a put down but to my understanding was accepted by a proud group of people as a badge of Italo-Australian belonging and community. Rats of Tobruk style. Edit: Did I rob Greco-Australians of that proud honorific too? I thought it applied to the Italian immigrants first and foremost, but now I think on it, it had much more global application. Apologies. The way words are used is the issue. Sent to prison for an adjective used stupidly is wrong. Sent to prison for an adjective that is genuinely believed by the user to be a racial put down is a different thing. How the f*ck do you determine which is which?! Especially when no-one will admit they meant it in a bad way afterwards. Not the forum for it, but I just thought I'd try and explain my comment more clearly. The problem with Anglo's having opinions on European immigrants and the racism they were subjected to, the impact it had, and how the immigrants dealt with it is that they simply have NFI as they weren't on the receiving end of it. Implying that racism towards European immigrants is somehow half that towards blacks is based on what lived experience? My dad, and his three brothers-in-law arrived here in the 1960's-and my own experience growing up in the 1970's and 80's Melbourne we could tell you some stories about racism in Melbourne that might have you re-evaluate that opinion. Having said that for me its not that difficult-if you verbally threaten to harm someone physically then yes that's a crime. If you call someone names because of their ethnicity, or their skin color then you're a shit person, but you don't deserve to got to jail for it and I'm not going to have a mental break down or suicide over you being a shit person.
IMO the issue is all about proportionality. There's a perversity in this, a pleasure that some people take for seeing another person being disproportionately punished for a transgression against them. Its about revenge, not justice. IMO this makes them even bigger pieces of shit. Nah I dont read RIMBs take on this as anything of the sort to be honest. We all grew up here and Im sure, even though he may not have been personally subjected to the prejudice, would understand its meaning to "us" And as for the racism towards "new Australians" thats as old as the country itself. From the Chinese in the Goldfields to the early Irish/Scots/Welsh miners to pre and post war "wogsies" to Viets and Lebs in the 80s and 90s, to now the Sudanese, Indians and Middle Easterners.... Every wave gets met with resistance from the "locals" and every wave eventually is accepted for who they are and what they bring to the table. Nobody dares to tell the new migrant they have to eat meat pies, drink beer, beat their wives and go to the footy or else they can fuck off back home anymore.... My folks came from barefoot mountain goat villages too mate and the first few decades for them and us where horrific .... I get it, but OUR kids are growing up in an Australia that doesn't (except for our football club of choice of course, thanks to Lowy and the plastic fantasticers) even know what the term wog means let alone how to use it... I appreciate that Mono. My comment about the proud acceptance of 'wog' was based on what I took to be honest reporting many years ago and was based on the direct opinions of some of that generation speaking proudly about being called Wogs. They had taken the slur and made it something to respect about them. That is where my halfway reference is founded without meaning to imply that the actual racism behind it wasn't foul. I would not have formed the opinion without what I took to be legitimate information in the first place - so apologies Enzo if it came across as my own safe-life anglo thinking. I am half Pom and half Aussie (Aussie being the better half of course), and simply 'all anglo' to some so maybe that is why I am not bothered by the term pommy at all. We are all flavoured by our own experiences and circumstances whether they were our experiences or those we know of equally. The way all migrant groups are initially treated in this country's history is hideous. Time is a weakener of that, but rarely flushes completely clean in my view. We look to the future as Mono said in hope for kids just being kids and accepted. Never completely clean, I agree.... but clean enough that we can all move on.... The 6th generation Chinese kid with the Pauline Hanson accent and the skip first name will still ALWAYS be a foreigner to some because of his appearance.... As for the term Pommy mate this was pretty much exclusively used as a term of endearment, even when it was to "bash" the whinging poms it was never really maliciously used. "Wog" on the other hand was a slur, plain and simple... A slang word used by the British to describe a virus that was infecting their purity of race in the Antipodes... often accompanied by "Greasy" or "Hairy" or "Dagoe" or "Spag" but NEVER said with same sort of jocularity as "Pommy" Enzo has a very clear and correct perspective about this, people of my (and I suspect Enzo and I are give or take the same age) age group were well and truly vilified horrendously because of our parents origin... If I had a dollar for every time I have been told to "go back to your own country" I could have flown to Athens and back a couple of dozen times :). I guess, similar to all other minorities, what doesn't kill you can only make you stronger... From the late 80s to 2010s we called ourselves wogs with pretend pride, it was an identity both imposed but also embraced with defiance... If society calls me a wog well then fuck you all I am a wog... sort of thinking... Things we thought where cringe and backwards were "Woggy" "wog-school" for Greek language classes, "wog loafers" for the leather slippers with the tassles (God how I miss those btw) "wog palaces" for brick veneer double stories out in Templestowe with marble balustrades and lions, "wog chariots" for the Kingswoods and Valiants our parents and later we drove, "wog ball" for the sport we all adored and watched as a family. My kids have grown up in a Melbourne far removed from that and they are genuinely perplexed when they hear me or my mates or older family refer to something as "woggy" it just doesn't exist in their life any more but ........... that just means that there is now another group lower than us on the totem pole of Australia society. They get called far far worse than even we did sometimes.... Sorry for the run down migrant memory lane... :P Open eyes can always lead to open arms (just made that up). Loved the lesson mate.
When I wear their colours, I am the club.
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Melbcityguy
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Matildas under 20s AFC cup is on now FYI
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Enzo Bearzot
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Matildas captain Sam Kerr called a police officer “a stupid white bastard” during a dispute over a taxi fare last year, UK newspaper The Sun has reported
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Decentric 2
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+xMatildas under 20s AFC cup is on now FYI How do we view it?
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dirk vanadidas
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+x+xso how can you be racist unless plod was white Dumbest comment of the week Tuesday Wednesday and Thursday, lol White bastard
Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club
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SUTHERLANDBEAR
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xDepends entirely on the circumstances and words used. For now we really just have to wait and see what actually happens. At least, being a court case, the details should eventually be published. If Kerr lost her head about something and called them filthy pommy bastards then there is a racial tone that we would perhaps not even blink at here. If she lost her head and called them filthy black bastards then there is a racial tone that is unacceptable. 4 days of trial seems awfully heavy so maybe there is more to it than a casual abusive rant or maybe the case has a political agenda on racism, abuse of police generally, or something else entirely. No point guessing how much of a beat up it is or not until we do know more. High profile sportspeople will always attract heavy media comment and interest because they are so much in the media eye - and historically plenty of them across all sports have shown themselves to be newsworthy twats at some point. On the criminal aspect, there are times when that is what is required to break the historic and traditional acceptance of racial slurs. Plenty of non-racial slurs and abuse available to choose from. That is all I am saying on that score. Hey RIMB, not sure I can see the difference in intent between "filthy pommy bastard" and "filthy black bastard"??? Racism is racism no? I agree with others that being criminally prosecuted is extremely far fetched but why did the silly girl not at least advise the FA a year ago? That's my point somewhat Mono. Being labelled a pommy bastard is racist in principle but Aussies v Poms is an accepted 'user friendly' racist label. It is still meant to indicate that each others' race is a bad thing without really being so. 'Black' is a different thing because historically 'being a black' was a deliberate and intended racial put down - with real social stigma and centuries of victims and suffering behind it. 'Wogs' to me is halfway between the two, because it was intended and applied as a put down but to my understanding was accepted by a proud group of people as a badge of Italo-Australian belonging and community. Rats of Tobruk style. Edit: Did I rob Greco-Australians of that proud honorific too? I thought it applied to the Italian immigrants first and foremost, but now I think on it, it had much more global application. Apologies. The way words are used is the issue. Sent to prison for an adjective used stupidly is wrong. Sent to prison for an adjective that is genuinely believed by the user to be a racial put down is a different thing. How the f*ck do you determine which is which?! Especially when no-one will admit they meant it in a bad way afterwards. Not the forum for it, but I just thought I'd try and explain my comment more clearly. The problem with Anglo's having opinions on European immigrants and the racism they were subjected to, the impact it had, and how the immigrants dealt with it is that they simply have NFI as they weren't on the receiving end of it. Implying that racism towards European immigrants is somehow half that towards blacks is based on what lived experience? My dad, and his three brothers-in-law arrived here in the 1960's-and my own experience growing up in the 1970's and 80's Melbourne we could tell you some stories about racism in Melbourne that might have you re-evaluate that opinion. Having said that for me its not that difficult-if you verbally threaten to harm someone physically then yes that's a crime. If you call someone names because of their ethnicity, or their skin color then you're a shit person, but you don't deserve to got to jail for it and I'm not going to have a mental break down or suicide over you being a shit person.
IMO the issue is all about proportionality. There's a perversity in this, a pleasure that some people take for seeing another person being disproportionately punished for a transgression against them. Its about revenge, not justice. IMO this makes them even bigger pieces of shit. Nah I dont read RIMBs take on this as anything of the sort to be honest. We all grew up here and Im sure, even though he may not have been personally subjected to the prejudice, would understand its meaning to "us" And as for the racism towards "new Australians" thats as old as the country itself. From the Chinese in the Goldfields to the early Irish/Scots/Welsh miners to pre and post war "wogsies" to Viets and Lebs in the 80s and 90s, to now the Sudanese, Indians and Middle Easterners.... Every wave gets met with resistance from the "locals" and every wave eventually is accepted for who they are and what they bring to the table. Nobody dares to tell the new migrant they have to eat meat pies, drink beer, beat their wives and go to the footy or else they can fuck off back home anymore.... My folks came from barefoot mountain goat villages too mate and the first few decades for them and us where horrific .... I get it, but OUR kids are growing up in an Australia that doesn't (except for our football club of choice of course, thanks to Lowy and the plastic fantasticers) even know what the term wog means let alone how to use it... I appreciate that Mono. My comment about the proud acceptance of 'wog' was based on what I took to be honest reporting many years ago and was based on the direct opinions of some of that generation speaking proudly about being called Wogs. They had taken the slur and made it something to respect about them. That is where my halfway reference is founded without meaning to imply that the actual racism behind it wasn't foul. I would not have formed the opinion without what I took to be legitimate information in the first place - so apologies Enzo if it came across as my own safe-life anglo thinking. I am half Pom and half Aussie (Aussie being the better half of course), and simply 'all anglo' to some so maybe that is why I am not bothered by the term pommy at all. We are all flavoured by our own experiences and circumstances whether they were our experiences or those we know of equally. The way all migrant groups are initially treated in this country's history is hideous. Time is a weakener of that, but rarely flushes completely clean in my view. We look to the future as Mono said in hope for kids just being kids and accepted. Never completely clean, I agree.... but clean enough that we can all move on.... The 6th generation Chinese kid with the Pauline Hanson accent and the skip first name will still ALWAYS be a foreigner to some because of his appearance.... As for the term Pommy mate this was pretty much exclusively used as a term of endearment, even when it was to "bash" the whinging poms it was never really maliciously used. "Wog" on the other hand was a slur, plain and simple... A slang word used by the British to describe a virus that was infecting their purity of race in the Antipodes... often accompanied by "Greasy" or "Hairy" or "Dagoe" or "Spag" but NEVER said with same sort of jocularity as "Pommy" Enzo has a very clear and correct perspective about this, people of my (and I suspect Enzo and I are give or take the same age) age group were well and truly vilified horrendously because of our parents origin... If I had a dollar for every time I have been told to "go back to your own country" I could have flown to Athens and back a couple of dozen times :). I guess, similar to all other minorities, what doesn't kill you can only make you stronger... From the late 80s to 2010s we called ourselves wogs with pretend pride, it was an identity both imposed but also embraced with defiance... If society calls me a wog well then fuck you all I am a wog... sort of thinking... Things we thought where cringe and backwards were "Woggy" "wog-school" for Greek language classes, "wog loafers" for the leather slippers with the tassles (God how I miss those btw) "wog palaces" for brick veneer double stories out in Templestowe with marble balustrades and lions, "wog chariots" for the Kingswoods and Valiants our parents and later we drove, "wog ball" for the sport we all adored and watched as a family. My kids have grown up in a Melbourne far removed from that and they are genuinely perplexed when they hear me or my mates or older family refer to something as "woggy" it just doesn't exist in their life any more but ........... that just means that there is now another group lower than us on the totem pole of Australia society. They get called far far worse than even we did sometimes.... Sorry for the run down migrant memory lane... :P Sorry, but " wog " in Britain was derived from the " Golliwog " on the jam jar, referring to blacks only. We weren't discussing where from wog was derived from in Britain. There was a local TV ad for cold and flu medication, with the catchphrase "For when the winter wogs are with you"....we were a disease...my little brother who would have been around 8 at the time says "Do they drink that when we're with them?" Mono mentioned it, I replied to it. Simples.
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Roar in me Blood
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+x+xMatildas under 20s AFC cup is on now FYI How do we view it? It was on 10Play too - but I just found it too late. Next game is also on 10Play 9 March at 19:00 AEDT as far as I can see. That makes 2 wins out of 2 for the Young Matildas.
When I wear their colours, I am the club.
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bohemia
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How long do they plan on using that? It's 2024. But hey, if this buys them an extra year not prosecuting drug gangs in the projects, then congrats on finding a good distraction.
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dirk vanadidas
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+xHow long do they plan on using that? It's 2024. But hey, if this buys them an extra year not prosecuting drug gangs in the projects, then congrats on finding a good distraction. UK is moribund, 7 million on health operating lists, excess deaths above normal, etc etc
Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club
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johnszasz
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someguyjc
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+xMatildas captain Sam Kerr called a police officer “a stupid white bastard” during a dispute over a taxi fare last year, UK newspaper The Sun has reported Wow, a criminal charge for that. What an age we live in.
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LFC.
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SUTHERLANDBEAR
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+x+xMatildas captain Sam Kerr called a police officer “a stupid white bastard” during a dispute over a taxi fare last year, UK newspaper The Sun has reported Wow, a criminal charge for that. What an age we live in. It would be the same , if not more if someone called her a " stupid BLACK bastard "
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LFC.
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+x+xMatildas captain Sam Kerr called a police officer “a stupid white bastard” during a dispute over a taxi fare last year, UK newspaper The Sun has reported Wow, a criminal charge for that. What an age we live in. I agree but yes thats the world we live in today BUT I would never ever call a cop in his/her/it face a bastard let alone add their colour......and I brought up my kids the same, respect authority no matter the issues. This is dumb dumb and dumber behaviour by her tbh.
Love Football
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+xTwo good posts in a row- whats this place turning into? :) Even a broken clock can be right twice a day :P
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xDepends entirely on the circumstances and words used. For now we really just have to wait and see what actually happens. At least, being a court case, the details should eventually be published. If Kerr lost her head about something and called them filthy pommy bastards then there is a racial tone that we would perhaps not even blink at here. If she lost her head and called them filthy black bastards then there is a racial tone that is unacceptable. 4 days of trial seems awfully heavy so maybe there is more to it than a casual abusive rant or maybe the case has a political agenda on racism, abuse of police generally, or something else entirely. No point guessing how much of a beat up it is or not until we do know more. High profile sportspeople will always attract heavy media comment and interest because they are so much in the media eye - and historically plenty of them across all sports have shown themselves to be newsworthy twats at some point. On the criminal aspect, there are times when that is what is required to break the historic and traditional acceptance of racial slurs. Plenty of non-racial slurs and abuse available to choose from. That is all I am saying on that score. Hey RIMB, not sure I can see the difference in intent between "filthy pommy bastard" and "filthy black bastard"??? Racism is racism no? I agree with others that being criminally prosecuted is extremely far fetched but why did the silly girl not at least advise the FA a year ago? That's my point somewhat Mono. Being labelled a pommy bastard is racist in principle but Aussies v Poms is an accepted 'user friendly' racist label. It is still meant to indicate that each others' race is a bad thing without really being so. 'Black' is a different thing because historically 'being a black' was a deliberate and intended racial put down - with real social stigma and centuries of victims and suffering behind it. 'Wogs' to me is halfway between the two, because it was intended and applied as a put down but to my understanding was accepted by a proud group of people as a badge of Italo-Australian belonging and community. Rats of Tobruk style. Edit: Did I rob Greco-Australians of that proud honorific too? I thought it applied to the Italian immigrants first and foremost, but now I think on it, it had much more global application. Apologies. The way words are used is the issue. Sent to prison for an adjective used stupidly is wrong. Sent to prison for an adjective that is genuinely believed by the user to be a racial put down is a different thing. How the f*ck do you determine which is which?! Especially when no-one will admit they meant it in a bad way afterwards. Not the forum for it, but I just thought I'd try and explain my comment more clearly. The problem with Anglo's having opinions on European immigrants and the racism they were subjected to, the impact it had, and how the immigrants dealt with it is that they simply have NFI as they weren't on the receiving end of it. Implying that racism towards European immigrants is somehow half that towards blacks is based on what lived experience? My dad, and his three brothers-in-law arrived here in the 1960's-and my own experience growing up in the 1970's and 80's Melbourne we could tell you some stories about racism in Melbourne that might have you re-evaluate that opinion. Having said that for me its not that difficult-if you verbally threaten to harm someone physically then yes that's a crime. If you call someone names because of their ethnicity, or their skin color then you're a shit person, but you don't deserve to got to jail for it and I'm not going to have a mental break down or suicide over you being a shit person.
IMO the issue is all about proportionality. There's a perversity in this, a pleasure that some people take for seeing another person being disproportionately punished for a transgression against them. Its about revenge, not justice. IMO this makes them even bigger pieces of shit. Nah I dont read RIMBs take on this as anything of the sort to be honest. We all grew up here and Im sure, even though he may not have been personally subjected to the prejudice, would understand its meaning to "us" And as for the racism towards "new Australians" thats as old as the country itself. From the Chinese in the Goldfields to the early Irish/Scots/Welsh miners to pre and post war "wogsies" to Viets and Lebs in the 80s and 90s, to now the Sudanese, Indians and Middle Easterners.... Every wave gets met with resistance from the "locals" and every wave eventually is accepted for who they are and what they bring to the table. Nobody dares to tell the new migrant they have to eat meat pies, drink beer, beat their wives and go to the footy or else they can fuck off back home anymore.... My folks came from barefoot mountain goat villages too mate and the first few decades for them and us where horrific .... I get it, but OUR kids are growing up in an Australia that doesn't (except for our football club of choice of course, thanks to Lowy and the plastic fantasticers) even know what the term wog means let alone how to use it... I appreciate that Mono. My comment about the proud acceptance of 'wog' was based on what I took to be honest reporting many years ago and was based on the direct opinions of some of that generation speaking proudly about being called Wogs. They had taken the slur and made it something to respect about them. That is where my halfway reference is founded without meaning to imply that the actual racism behind it wasn't foul. I would not have formed the opinion without what I took to be legitimate information in the first place - so apologies Enzo if it came across as my own safe-life anglo thinking. I am half Pom and half Aussie (Aussie being the better half of course), and simply 'all anglo' to some so maybe that is why I am not bothered by the term pommy at all. We are all flavoured by our own experiences and circumstances whether they were our experiences or those we know of equally. The way all migrant groups are initially treated in this country's history is hideous. Time is a weakener of that, but rarely flushes completely clean in my view. We look to the future as Mono said in hope for kids just being kids and accepted. Never completely clean, I agree.... but clean enough that we can all move on.... The 6th generation Chinese kid with the Pauline Hanson accent and the skip first name will still ALWAYS be a foreigner to some because of his appearance.... As for the term Pommy mate this was pretty much exclusively used as a term of endearment, even when it was to "bash" the whinging poms it was never really maliciously used. "Wog" on the other hand was a slur, plain and simple... A slang word used by the British to describe a virus that was infecting their purity of race in the Antipodes... often accompanied by "Greasy" or "Hairy" or "Dagoe" or "Spag" but NEVER said with same sort of jocularity as "Pommy" Enzo has a very clear and correct perspective about this, people of my (and I suspect Enzo and I are give or take the same age) age group were well and truly vilified horrendously because of our parents origin... If I had a dollar for every time I have been told to "go back to your own country" I could have flown to Athens and back a couple of dozen times :). I guess, similar to all other minorities, what doesn't kill you can only make you stronger... From the late 80s to 2010s we called ourselves wogs with pretend pride, it was an identity both imposed but also embraced with defiance... If society calls me a wog well then fuck you all I am a wog... sort of thinking... Things we thought where cringe and backwards were "Woggy" "wog-school" for Greek language classes, "wog loafers" for the leather slippers with the tassles (God how I miss those btw) "wog palaces" for brick veneer double stories out in Templestowe with marble balustrades and lions, "wog chariots" for the Kingswoods and Valiants our parents and later we drove, "wog ball" for the sport we all adored and watched as a family. My kids have grown up in a Melbourne far removed from that and they are genuinely perplexed when they hear me or my mates or older family refer to something as "woggy" it just doesn't exist in their life any more but ........... that just means that there is now another group lower than us on the totem pole of Australia society. They get called far far worse than even we did sometimes.... Sorry for the run down migrant memory lane... :P Sorry, but " wog " in Britain was derived from the " Golliwog " on the jam jar, referring to blacks only. We weren't discussing where from wog was derived from in Britain. There was a local TV ad for cold and flu medication, with the catchphrase "For when the winter wogs are with you"....we were a disease... my little brother who would have been around 8 at the time says "Do they drink that when we're with them?" Fuck man, dont know why but this made me really really sad this morning......
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xDepends entirely on the circumstances and words used. For now we really just have to wait and see what actually happens. At least, being a court case, the details should eventually be published. If Kerr lost her head about something and called them filthy pommy bastards then there is a racial tone that we would perhaps not even blink at here. If she lost her head and called them filthy black bastards then there is a racial tone that is unacceptable. 4 days of trial seems awfully heavy so maybe there is more to it than a casual abusive rant or maybe the case has a political agenda on racism, abuse of police generally, or something else entirely. No point guessing how much of a beat up it is or not until we do know more. High profile sportspeople will always attract heavy media comment and interest because they are so much in the media eye - and historically plenty of them across all sports have shown themselves to be newsworthy twats at some point. On the criminal aspect, there are times when that is what is required to break the historic and traditional acceptance of racial slurs. Plenty of non-racial slurs and abuse available to choose from. That is all I am saying on that score. Hey RIMB, not sure I can see the difference in intent between "filthy pommy bastard" and "filthy black bastard"??? Racism is racism no? I agree with others that being criminally prosecuted is extremely far fetched but why did the silly girl not at least advise the FA a year ago? That's my point somewhat Mono. Being labelled a pommy bastard is racist in principle but Aussies v Poms is an accepted 'user friendly' racist label. It is still meant to indicate that each others' race is a bad thing without really being so. 'Black' is a different thing because historically 'being a black' was a deliberate and intended racial put down - with real social stigma and centuries of victims and suffering behind it. 'Wogs' to me is halfway between the two, because it was intended and applied as a put down but to my understanding was accepted by a proud group of people as a badge of Italo-Australian belonging and community. Rats of Tobruk style. Edit: Did I rob Greco-Australians of that proud honorific too? I thought it applied to the Italian immigrants first and foremost, but now I think on it, it had much more global application. Apologies. The way words are used is the issue. Sent to prison for an adjective used stupidly is wrong. Sent to prison for an adjective that is genuinely believed by the user to be a racial put down is a different thing. How the f*ck do you determine which is which?! Especially when no-one will admit they meant it in a bad way afterwards. Not the forum for it, but I just thought I'd try and explain my comment more clearly. The problem with Anglo's having opinions on European immigrants and the racism they were subjected to, the impact it had, and how the immigrants dealt with it is that they simply have NFI as they weren't on the receiving end of it. Implying that racism towards European immigrants is somehow half that towards blacks is based on what lived experience? My dad, and his three brothers-in-law arrived here in the 1960's-and my own experience growing up in the 1970's and 80's Melbourne we could tell you some stories about racism in Melbourne that might have you re-evaluate that opinion. Having said that for me its not that difficult-if you verbally threaten to harm someone physically then yes that's a crime. If you call someone names because of their ethnicity, or their skin color then you're a shit person, but you don't deserve to got to jail for it and I'm not going to have a mental break down or suicide over you being a shit person.
IMO the issue is all about proportionality. There's a perversity in this, a pleasure that some people take for seeing another person being disproportionately punished for a transgression against them. Its about revenge, not justice. IMO this makes them even bigger pieces of shit. Nah I dont read RIMBs take on this as anything of the sort to be honest. We all grew up here and Im sure, even though he may not have been personally subjected to the prejudice, would understand its meaning to "us" And as for the racism towards "new Australians" thats as old as the country itself. From the Chinese in the Goldfields to the early Irish/Scots/Welsh miners to pre and post war "wogsies" to Viets and Lebs in the 80s and 90s, to now the Sudanese, Indians and Middle Easterners.... Every wave gets met with resistance from the "locals" and every wave eventually is accepted for who they are and what they bring to the table. Nobody dares to tell the new migrant they have to eat meat pies, drink beer, beat their wives and go to the footy or else they can fuck off back home anymore.... My folks came from barefoot mountain goat villages too mate and the first few decades for them and us where horrific .... I get it, but OUR kids are growing up in an Australia that doesn't (except for our football club of choice of course, thanks to Lowy and the plastic fantasticers) even know what the term wog means let alone how to use it... I appreciate that Mono. My comment about the proud acceptance of 'wog' was based on what I took to be honest reporting many years ago and was based on the direct opinions of some of that generation speaking proudly about being called Wogs. They had taken the slur and made it something to respect about them. That is where my halfway reference is founded without meaning to imply that the actual racism behind it wasn't foul. I would not have formed the opinion without what I took to be legitimate information in the first place - so apologies Enzo if it came across as my own safe-life anglo thinking. I am half Pom and half Aussie (Aussie being the better half of course), and simply 'all anglo' to some so maybe that is why I am not bothered by the term pommy at all. We are all flavoured by our own experiences and circumstances whether they were our experiences or those we know of equally. The way all migrant groups are initially treated in this country's history is hideous. Time is a weakener of that, but rarely flushes completely clean in my view. We look to the future as Mono said in hope for kids just being kids and accepted. Never completely clean, I agree.... but clean enough that we can all move on.... The 6th generation Chinese kid with the Pauline Hanson accent and the skip first name will still ALWAYS be a foreigner to some because of his appearance.... As for the term Pommy mate this was pretty much exclusively used as a term of endearment, even when it was to "bash" the whinging poms it was never really maliciously used. "Wog" on the other hand was a slur, plain and simple... A slang word used by the British to describe a virus that was infecting their purity of race in the Antipodes... often accompanied by "Greasy" or "Hairy" or "Dagoe" or "Spag" but NEVER said with same sort of jocularity as "Pommy" Enzo has a very clear and correct perspective about this, people of my (and I suspect Enzo and I are give or take the same age) age group were well and truly vilified horrendously because of our parents origin... If I had a dollar for every time I have been told to "go back to your own country" I could have flown to Athens and back a couple of dozen times :). I guess, similar to all other minorities, what doesn't kill you can only make you stronger... From the late 80s to 2010s we called ourselves wogs with pretend pride, it was an identity both imposed but also embraced with defiance... If society calls me a wog well then fuck you all I am a wog... sort of thinking... Things we thought where cringe and backwards were "Woggy" "wog-school" for Greek language classes, "wog loafers" for the leather slippers with the tassles (God how I miss those btw) "wog palaces" for brick veneer double stories out in Templestowe with marble balustrades and lions, "wog chariots" for the Kingswoods and Valiants our parents and later we drove, "wog ball" for the sport we all adored and watched as a family. My kids have grown up in a Melbourne far removed from that and they are genuinely perplexed when they hear me or my mates or older family refer to something as "woggy" it just doesn't exist in their life any more but ........... that just means that there is now another group lower than us on the totem pole of Australia society. They get called far far worse than even we did sometimes.... Sorry for the run down migrant memory lane... :P Open eyes can always lead to open arms (just made that up). Loved the lesson mate. I like it .....
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+xMatildas captain Sam Kerr called a police officer “a stupid white bastard” during a dispute over a taxi fare last year, UK newspaper The Sun has reported Wow, a criminal charge for that. What an age we live in. It would be the same , if not more if someone called her a " stupid BLACK bastard " Gotta agree with this... People would be up in arms if anyone called her "black' "brown" "lezzo" or anything..... Being plastered, spewing in a cab and calling a copper a bastard would be forgivable (at least from a public opinion perspective) but throwing the "White" thing in there is just dumb. I wonder how here fiancee, her team mates and their families feel about what she really feels about them as "whites"
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