The flip side is that stumping and referal for the caught behind are worth more runs than most keepers would score in any test. It's not exactly like he is a nobody with the bat either, he's a viable opener in short form cricket for australia.

If Paine can average anywhere near 35 i'd be very happy, but i don't think we have the batting strength to be able to carry a keeper who goes out for 20 or less every inning (Wade). Obviously that is unlikely for Paine but he is yet to convince me with the bat, that said i wouldn't dare drop him this ashes series as we aren't exactly full of options.

I think you are right about Bancroft being a better shot maker, City Sam.

Given Warner's attacking capabilities, I like the idea of a sound defensive player being the other opener.

The form issue may be significant ATM.

 From watching both batters at Bellerive, even a few weeks ago with Renshaw out of form, he looks to  have  a better defence on a wicket doing a bit.

I'm of the other opinion in terms of keepers.  Pick the best keeper first. If he  s/he can bat it is a bonus.

Even though his batting record isn't that good, before this Test, Paine's Test average was 35.

Chances missed can be critical to the outcome of a Test. Paine's stumping in Brisbane created a  wicket they was barely there for the taking. Only exceptional keepers make those sorts of stumpings.

Because our lower order is incredibly weak, we need a keeper who can bat aswell as keep and Paine has not shown he can do the former.

If Stokes gets  out here soon, it will provide a lift for the Poms in bowling and batting. I thought Broad and Anderson were past it when I saw them bowl in England recently. They were impressive in Brisbane. So were Stoneman and Vince as batsmen. Australia still relies too heavily on Warner and Smith to make runs. I'm dreading some more long innings from Cook too.

Not sure why the jury is still out for Paine? The leg side stumping he missed was a very difficult chance. The batter's body blocks the line of sight  for the keeper in these leg side stumping actions from them standing up to the stumps to spinners.

Paine's slick stumping changed the course of the match. This guy is Australia's best keeper since Ian Healy.

Cameron Bancroft copped two full blooded shots that hit him on the ankle on the full, and in the neck on the full. He wasn't criticised for failing to grasp these very difficult chances. Only David Boon and Roger Harper might've caught them on a good day at bat pad.

Yes but this was Bancroft's Test debut. Everybody has to start somewhere. Frankly, there's not a huge amount between the two. They both have the right idea, they're both skilled and probably technically good enough to become very solid Test batsmen (with a bit of tweaking here and there). It was simply a case of Cam Bancroft being in top form and Matt Renshaw not being in such good form. There's no shame in Renshaw going back to the Shield and scoring runs and then getting another go.



It could do. It's definitely something which can be exploited at Test level. And not just for offside shots. Any defensive shot when there's lateral movement, he'll be that bit more susceptible. Having said that it's not as if Cam Bancroft is defensively weak. His footwork is decent enough. As far as I know, that squaring up thing is the only flaw.

Hopefully his batting coaches help him work on it. I'm no expert but I'd imagine it's more than possible for him to get his toes facing point for those defensive shots. Once he does that, everything else should fall into place. And he'll still have the option of getting into position to play the ball to the leg side.

He should play in the County Championship in the Australian winter, if possible.

I think Bancroft has shown to be a better scorer than Renshaw while also having that strong defensive temperament. I'd love for Renshaw to replace Khawaja though, i feel our top order could really do with someone like Renshaw who places a high value on his wicket. It'd avoid collapses which we are prone to doing.

And we win the first test by 10 wickets, we really showed a lot of good character in that match. Couple times we looked in a poor position but played very well to turn it around. All the selections were justified but for me the jury is still out for Khawaja, Paine and Marsh.

As for England, they need to find another option after Broad and Anderson quickly or we will win this series 5-0

Maxwell has been a better batter at test level, from what we saw in India. Marsh's footwork looks too slow for test cricket, even though he may get away with it in the Shield more often.

In Australian conditions, Marsh is probably the better back up bowler. I'm not sure if Maxwell can bowl tightly enough? On the  subcontinent  he had more more assistance from the wickets. A back up bowler is needed soon, so the pace trio can bowl less overs.

I've learnt something new.

australia now in a dominant position. Amazingly it seems that the pitch is getting easier rather than harder

Renshaw has succeeded at a higher level than Bancroft.

The technical issue you posted in the analysis from  Vaughan and Clarke may mean Bancroft is going to struggle in Test cricket on the offside unless he sorts it out. 

Interesting.

I thought they should have persisted with Renshaw after seeing him bat for Queensland in the Shield a  few weeks ago against a Tassie attack on a pitch doing a bit. His defence looked very good against a probing, accurate attack.

Bancroft has made some big scores at Bellerive on pitches with little movement off the seam in the Shield.

Agree.

Grazor, if you are reading this, you should've seen Paine keep today. He was outstanding!



The Tasmanian Shield selectors have made some very enigmatic decisions  of late.

1.  Dropping Paine from the Shield because he was out of form  with the bat. IMO you select the best keeper. The keeper who the Australian selectors think is the best keeper in the country ( has more leadership,  offers more encouragement to teammates and berates them for mistakes more than Nevill does) wasn't even selected for his  state Shield team.

2. The other one was dropping Jon Wells. In 7 knocks a few season ago, he made 5 scores of over 40 out of the first seven innings. He was the second highest scoring batter after Ed Cowan, but was more consistent. Then the selectors dropped him and told him he would never play for Tasmania again - publicising this in the local media. Wells then went to West Aus and has scored centuries for them! He has dominated grade cricket in Hobart too.

I think at stumps Australia are something like 0 - 114.

I didn't  see Ali face Lyon in the second innings, but he has looked like the only English batsman who has been comfortable against the Aussie finger spinner.

I think Lyon has approximately 51 wickets from 8 Tests played in 2017. The only bowlers  who have taken more wickets from other test playing nations, have played more tests for barely any more wickets.

Still a good pitch, no excuses not to get 170

Michael Clarke and Michael Vaughan with some interesting insight in the technique of Cameron Bancroft.

Looks very strong on the leg-side. But, when he plays the ball straight or on the off side, he's getting too squared up which means he'll probably have a tendency to get caught behind.

It's less flawed to be more side on for those blocks and drives through cover. His back shoulder comes around too much and the toes of his back foot end up facing mid-off. You're less susceptible to certain dismissals if they're facing point. It makes for much safer defensive strokes and cover drives.

there are 3 eyelines a spinner will cross with the ideal stock ball

first you want to flight it above the eyeline 
then you want the drift to go across the body (from off to leg)
then you want the turn to go across the body again (from leg to off)

if you cross the eyeline three times in a delivery its very difficult for the batsmen

australia bowl england out with their noses in front

not sure how hard this wicket is but chasing 200 is pretty even but 170 is difficult on a fifth day wicket and we will bat on a fifth day wicket


lyon against left handers manage to pitch on leg and go across the batsman stumps. If you get the ball turning toward off after landing on leg you will pick up wickets very regularly. 

Fantastic stumping from Tim Paine. Massive wicket

Matthew Renshaw not opening is justifiable. He hasn't been in form and Cam Bancroft has been. Age is irrelevant. It's all about taking each Test match as it comes. Renshaw will do great things for Australia. There's nothing wrong with going back to the Sheffield Shield to score runs and come back.

Having said that, I wouldn't have left him out of the First XI. I'd have had him there for his batting and left Shaun Marsh out. Shaun Marsh has lovely technique (defensive stroke, pull shot, cut shot, drives). But he's just not mentally tough enough and I still don't think he has turned the corner. If he does, then great, have Shaun in the First XI.

It's great that he had a good first innings. But I worry it will make him undroppable for a while.

I'm very happy Tim Paine is in the side. Classic case of stats needing to be looked at through the prism of context. Imo, he's probably the best gloveman in the country (who has been held back by awful injuries). His batting is also technically very good (notwithstanding a slightly unorthodox trigger movement).

Yes, Matthew Wade has more runs. But he tends to struggle against line and length bowling and movement. Tim Paine's technique and temperament are better than this. The question is not always- who has the better average in the Shield? The question is who better suited to facing Jimmy Anderson and Stuart Broad. Tim Paine.  Although good case to be made for Peter Nevill.

Around 1999-2000, England took the right approach. They realised that stats don't always tell the full story and can be misleading. They recognised there were some in the County Championship who had great stats but were still displaying the characteristics which were a worry for Test level. The reality is that you can get away with technical/temperament flaws in domestic cricket which just get found at Test level. So, instead, the ECB realised that some other England cricketers without the stats but the technique and temperament to suggest they would do better at Test level. This also culminated in their 2005 Ashes victory.

That big wicket of Joe Root means Australia are now favourites in this one. England really needed him to score a hundred.

Root got out the same way in both innings - lbw to the inswinger from Hazelwood. Might be a technical weakness there.

England are going to need Bairstow and Ali to get a move on or this could be over today.

Smith complained about England's negative tactics to restrict his scoring.

Broad claims  the game plan is working well!

  I have to take my hat off to Broad aged 31, and Anderson in particular at age 35, firing up after receiving a brutal short pitched barrage from the Aussies when batting. They bowled superbly.

Before this game, Paine had a Test average of 35!

Australia had the better of that day. Steve Smith batted beautifully - it was a real Allan Border-like innings. Held back his natural attacking instincts and got the hundred.

Cook looks all at sea. England need him to find some form.

australia with their noses just slightly in front here for the first time in a long time

26 run lead is only 24 behind par imo (given we bat last)

2 early wickets though puts us ahead for the first time