Yay or nay?

In my opinion Australia Day is a day of celebration , particularly for Indigenous Australians as this was the day civilisation was brought to their country.  Not denying that terrible stuff happened, but in the media, schools and academia all we ever hear about is the terrible stuff, which is usually distorted and overblown to support the white oppressor, black victim narrative, and if you mention all the positive things such as the wheel, medicine, technology, education etc, you are automatically branded as a white supremacist and racist.  Anyway token gestures such as changing the date of national won't improve indigenous fortunes one iota, if anything it will further entrench feelings of hopelessness and victimisation as it will be an admission that the first fleet was an invasion and all the awful connotations that come with that.

Make it Bi-annual

Everybody happy

Make it the last Friday or Monday of January so it has no set date. We all still get a long weekend and it's no longer offensive to aboriginal people. It's a win win. 

There is no reason to inflame cultural tensions constantly. Before like 1992 (not 100% certain which year) Australia day wasn't even on the 26th of Jan.

aboriginals aren't actually complaining though, its a minority whipped up by Marxists 

Does Briggs count?

Are you generalising you sick fuck racist?

I think a lot of indigenous Australians are uncomfortable with the date.

I think it just doesn't make sense to have a controversial date. Does it need to be a set date?

It's been a public holiday since 1988.

If we pride ourselves as being a diverse, multicultural nation, then we have to accept that this began with the settlement of the first fleet. Before 1788, Australia was a collection of Aboriginal tribes without a common language and that was it. The settlement of the British (ultimately) paved the way for the Irish, the Chinese, the Greeks, the Germans, the Italians, the Vietnamese etc. to follow.

I'd be open to discussion about changing the date, but it has to be a date that actually makes sense to our history- like January 2nd (for Federation, as NYD is already a holiday). Suggestions we should change it to May 8 are cringe as fuck and reek of "ANYTHING but January 26th" desperation...

Can't even get pissed and enjoy yourself without virtuous hysterics complaining about it. Anyone non-aboriginal who thinks they should change the date should be avoided along with their high horse - if their chins were higher their neck would break. The aboriginal community should nominate a date, but they won't because there isn't one they can choose. The aboriginal nation has never existed - they were a various number of tribes speaking different languages who warred with each other when Europeans arrived: but forget about that shit, western civilization = bad 

Ken oats mate. The one day a year us aussies can get on the piss hey!

Fun fact: We are the last country in the entire commonwealth to still celebrate its national day on the date of British colonisation. Every other country has changed it - including New Zealand. Why?

Because all those other countries realised that none of the things that make their countries great today can be traced back to that date - or that other, better days supplanted it.

January 26 wasn’t the founding of our democracy, or the creation of our civil rights. It was not even the foundation of our national government, which didn’t appear until January 1, 1901. Most of the people who landed that day were working class prisoners who had only slightly better legal and political rights than the local Aboriginal people who died of Smallpox and violence.

The date is simply the anniversary of the original act of land theft and dispossession by the British.

I’ve never wanted to fly our flag, which contains the British flag still on it, on that day.

In New Zealand, they also, like us, held their national day on the anniversary of British colonisation, until they realised that was insensitive and changed it to Waitangi Day all the way back in the 1930s.

Instead of taking the same noble path, we doubled down on the stupidity. Most Australian states didn’t even celebrate Australia Day until the 1980s. It was only celebrated in NSW. They got dragged along when Bob Hawke and later John Howard wanted to make a big deal of the bicentenary and national identity.

When we become a republic it should be changed to the date of the proclamation of or full independence from the monarchy.

Land theft? I think this kind of emotionally charged language is why this debate is blowing up. It was 1788, it's colonialism and the actions of the British were viewed completely differently. I think using the standards of today's society to judge the actions of 200 years ago is counter productive to progress. 

There is a difference between empathy (which we should feel for the unnecessary suffering of the aboriginal people) and guilt (which a minority seem to think is justified because our skin is the same colour as our colonial ancestors). 

Like most left wing argumentation important details and facts are missing, or deliberately twisted.  Firstly Waitangi Day is highly controversial as it was the day NZ sovereignty was handed to the British empire.  Can you imagine what the indigenous would think if our national day was commemorative of the day the British formally took control  of their land?  They would want the date changed.  Its a similar story in Canada and other countries, Canada day commemorates the unification of three separate of colonies into a single dominion ruled by the British.  The way you presented the argument was the modern progressive governments changed the date of the national day to appease indigenous citizens due to sensitivities of having their land invaded, which is BS.

@Rusty (sorry I can’t quote from phone)

Waitangi Day has only been celebrated as New Zealand’s national day since the late 1940s. It has been proclaimed as the New Zealand national day since 1974.

Prior to this, most white New Zealanders celebrated the National Day on January 29th, the date at which the British landed with a mandate to take the land. The New Zealand government did make a conscious effort over many decades to erase the previous national celebration day and replace it with Waitangi Day.

I am aware of the controversy around the Waitangi treaty,
notably that sovereignty was ceded to the Crown and that not all the Indigenous New Zealand chiefs signed it. Nevertheless the 1840 treaty did give full legal rights to the Maori (something Aboriginal Australians would not achieve until 1967), and there are other compensatory clauses that have been shown to have legal force over decades.

Of course this did not mean the Maori did not face discrimination.

The principle here, though, is important. The New Zealand National day celebrates the ceding of sovereignty by negotiation and the creation of a state where Maori were given full citizenship rights.

Our National day celebrates the forceful, unlawful removal of sovereignty from Aboriginal people by military force, disease and (in a few places) conduct that we today would call genocide.

The New Zealand National day has been changed from a moment of forceful conquest to a treaty. Ours still commemorates conquest.


By the way you mentioned that Canada’s National day celebrates the unification of the British states. That’s correct. If we were to follow the same precedent, our National day would be on January 1st.

A treaty that has in most parts, held NZ back. Land claims and subsequent economic issues were one of the reasons why my parents decided to leave for Aus. Parts of my grandparents farm were 'claimed'. Surprise surprise these were the most fertile and well cultivated areas. 

The treaty has also been used to screw over the government on major construction projects like this one: http://tvnz.co.nz/content/143607/2591764.xhtml 

I have no issues with the Maori's in NZ but the country seems hell bent on appeasing the small vocal minority of maoris who seem to think the country owes them something. We can' allow that to happen here. 

I agree totally with this view. Totally.

The British arrived at Botany Bay a few days before moving to Port Jackson on the 26th. The colony was formally proclaimed on February 7. Dates all over the place. 

The date itself shouldn't be changed. Every prime minister of late has said no to this suggestion and it works fine as it is. The SJW have hijacked this and enough aborigines have spoken about moving forward and using the day to promote the best of modern Australia.

The above posts and suggestions are also good ones. January 1st won't really work while March 3 for the Australia Act isn't particularly exciting.

I feel many Australians connect with the start or initial phase of something. They see this time as the beginning and exciting prospect of Australia all those years ago.

Any change would not change the way the left carry on. Anything celebrating Australia has been used to reopen past wounds that most of us really have moved on from. 

I don't think a date change really hurts anyone, so I don't see why not.

Best suggestion I've seen is to have it on December 1st to kick off summer. Wouldn't mind that at all. 

Need an August Public Holiday.  Too big a gap between the June and October ones

Darryl Summers Birthday is the 6th

Voices for change are growing louder every year. Very encouraging and I expect it to happen in the not too distant future.

What I would find very encouraging is increasing indigenous employment, reducing domestic violence, sexual assault and poverty, but lets put that on the back burner for now and focus on the cure to all ills, changing the national holiday.

May 8 or detonate

Keep the public holiday - calling NSW foundation Day or some shit. Find a new date for Australia Day and make that a PH too. Problem solved and we get another day off.

Yesterday it was SSM
Today it's Australia day
Tomorrow its gonna be the offensive flag
Then the anthem
Then the name - named by a Brit

Slowly and slowly chipping away at Australia's history, traditions and identity.  The left are jizzing themselves at the moment because the SSM vote got up they think Australians are ready to trash their own history to appease a few disgruntled Aboriginals and marxists.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Aha in the old days you would have gotten a few more nibbles here

For me, it's a bit of a dull topic tbh. It's been done here the last half dozen years and there's enough mainstream discussion happening on it now.
The winds of change are coming, you can see even in this thread some previously fierce opponents moderating their point of view.

Wouldnt the winds of change for increased Aboriginal employment, reduced poverty, increased participation, optimism etc take precedence over a date on the Gregorian calendar? Its hard to fathom why something so trivial, so tokenistic ranks the top of peoples agenda for media, social and politcal focus.

Its no like changing the date is gonna do anything for aboriginal outcomes, if anything it will just bring into sharper our flag, which is a daily reminder of Aboriginal disposition and genocide, then our anthem, which consists all kinds of racist and misgonystic innuendo. Look at the current debate, never has Australia been more multicultural, equal tolerant, yet never have the shrills of racism and inequality been so loud. There is no end game, people just love to bitch, moan and complain over the most futile, pointless shit , meanwhile women continue to get bashed and raped, kids molested and neglected and no one gives a fuck.

What are you talking about? The government tried intervention decades ago, by taking young aboriginal children out of abusive environments similar to children of any other race. And look what happened, its now referred to as the 'stolen generation' and every non-aboriginal person born before/during/after said events is endlessly held accountable. Its a no win situtation for the government. Best cause of action is to do nothing and hope natural selection sorts it out.

Hopefully doesnt change. The 26th marks the start of colonisation, which was the beginning for the country known as Australia. Nothing could be more appropriate. The left is social cancer, always finding reasons to dump guilt on white Australians. 

Here here, I vote NO :)

something in press today
Rita Panahi, Herald Sun
January 24, 2018 10:36am
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opi...aa4e432e74edd4
Quote:

AUSTRALIAN celebrities have learnt nothing from their US brethren about the fatuity of playing politics. Other than alienating half their potential audience — closer to 90 per cent if they’re slamming Australia Day — artists tend to do their political cause more harm than good. Just about every actor, singer, athlete and comedian publicly backed Hillary Clinton and we all know how well that turned out. There’s been much written about how Clinton’s celebrity endorsements were ultimately counter-productive. That those in the artistic community lean further Left than the average member of the socialist alliance is nothing new, but now they can share their harebrained views of the world via social media. They say never meet your heroes to save yourself disappointment. The same could be said about following them on social media where you’re typically regaled with insipid, ill-informed political insights on everything from border protection (it’s bad and racist) to Australia Day (it’s bad and racist). It not only betrays how hopelessly out of touch most musicians and actors are with the mainstream but is also a sobering reminder that prolonged drug use can severely diminish cognitive skills. Stay off the pipe, kids. The campaign against our national day is as tiresome as it is futile and assorted celebrities jumping on the miserable activist bandwagon isn’t going to change hearts and minds. Let’s be honest: changing the date or the name of the day won’t change a thing other than rewarding the loudest, most divisive agitators. It would not make one iota of difference to those genuinely disadvantaged in remote communities nor shut up the self-loathers who just want an outlet for their unending supply of outrage. If you’ve had the misfortune of watching or listening to the ABC or reading the plethora of Leftist publications, you’d be forgiven for thinking that Australia Day is a celebration of genocide and white power. Meanwhile, the overwhelming majority of the country love the national day for what it actually represents and want it to remain on January 26, despite the nonsense put forward recently by a Leftist “think tank”. Last year a poll commissioned by The Guardian, but carried out by a reputable polling company, found that 85 per cent wanted to keep Australia Day on January 26, with a similar number against any efforts to rename the day. Despite the years of media coverage painting the day as deeply divisive, only 6 per cent of Australians felt negatively towards Australia Day. Sadly, it’s that 6 per cent who are given disproportionate coverage in the media. Among migrants, support for Australia Day was even higher, with 87 per cent against changing the date. Even among indigenous Australians, only one in three felt negatively about Australia Day, while half supported changing the date. Hardly the consensus that we’ve been sold. Less scientific polls completed in recent days back up those findings, including a Channel Seven poll that showed three in four are against changing the date. It’s clear that, just like the rest of the population, there is great diversity of opinion among the indigenous community and it’s time we listened to a broader range of voices rather than the usual dial-a-quote activists. Aboriginal leaders such as Jacinta Price and Dr Anthony Dillon are fed up with the annual debate. “Dumping Australia Day is a bad idea firstly because it’s a distraction from more serious issues like child abuse, violence, homelessness and unemployment and, secondly, it promotes the myth that Aboriginal people are upset by a date,” Dr Dillon told the Herald Sun. “If you really want to help Aboriginal people, do something practical. People celebrate that day because Australia is a great place to live ... no one is celebrating genocide.” Price believes the “crippling state of mourning” encouraged by some in the community is damaging. “The future is far more important to me than our past,” she wrote. “Why aren’t these people who protest about changing the date as concerned about the Aboriginal people affected by domestic violence, alcohol and drug abuse? Why aren’t the marches for murdered Aboriginal women as big as the marches on Australia Day? I don’t want anyone to feel guilty or bad for feeling joy and celebrating a country we love.” If you live in Australia, whether you were fortunate enough to be born here or migrated here as I have, then you have won the lottery of life. In a relatively short period Australia has become a nation that we can all be immensely proud of: a tolerant, welcoming and peaceful corner of the world. We are one of the most desirable places on the planet to call home and have built a peaceful, prosperous and egalitarian society. Having the likes of Darren Hayes, Pat Cash, Shane Jacobson or Jimmy Barnes jump on the “change-the-date” bandwagon will not do anything other than irritate a few of their fans. Australians are too smart to be swayed by celebrity opinion. Barnes in particular has been particularly active on social media in recent weeks. The rocker and sometime cruise-boat crooner took to twitter to abuse Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton, Minister for Environment and Energy Josh Frydenberg and most recently Australian Conservatives senator Cory Bernardi. The reaction of certain musicians to Bernardi’s Australia Day playlist was particularly petulant. Fancy a musician trying to dictate who can or cannot listen to their music or add their track to a Spotify playlist. The more we discuss Australia Day, the clearer it is that there is a chasm between community sentiment and attitudes pushed by media, political and celebrity class. Rita Panahi is a Herald Sun columnist

She totally missed the point with Savage Garden's rebut of this playlist. It was because Bernardi was using it a political tool not that the song was on the list for Australia Day. Savage Garden didn't want to be linked to the grandstanding that Bernardi was making.

I love how she uses the Guardian poll (from a reputable poll company she mentions), then in the same article mentions a Channel 7 poll (but no innenudos that it could be bias being on Seven, with Seven Media traditionally being more conservative). Journalism at it's absolute worse ... or is she a blogger ... then perhaps could be forgiven for her poor journalistic style.

I think most people have "abused" Peter Dutton ... sort of reap what you sow I suppose.

How bout Treaty and some recognition in the Constitution?

I'm sure a Referendum would probably be defeated (hard to say without any decent polling lately), but shit anything is worth a shot.

-PB

Yay.

Not sold on recognition in the constitution though, dont see the point of it. Open to different arguments though.

^ Dafuq?

Yeah  that is a head scratcher. 

I happen to think Briggs is a giant fat flog.  Does that make me a racist?

Weightist

Heightist too. You Nazis makes me ill. 

Bloody romans.

"All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"

'Brought peace.'

Peace? SHUT UP!

Do we even need a "National" day? The UK doesn't have one.
Why not move the "National" day to January 1st, which makes sense, re-name it Federation Day and make it the "National" day and then just throw another public holiday anywhere you like for what ever reason. You could have "Summer Day" as a nationwide public holiday on the first weekend of Feb or something, just not as the "National" Day.
You could even make ANZAC Day (the only other nationally recognised non-religious public holiday), the "National" day. It has some controversy around it but not so much these days.

The "National" day doesn't have to be all about flag-waving, fireworks, BBQ party parades.
   

January 1st is already called Federation Day. I thought this is why it is declared a public holiday.

Except for St Georges Day, St Andrews Day, St Davids Day and St Patricks Day

Former foz user Eastern Glory put me onto this gem:

"Who gives a shit when Australia Day is?" This sums up the Left for me.
People who share my opinion = People that count
People who don't share my opinion = Fucking nobodies c*nt

Friendlyjordies on point.

https://www.facebook.com/friendlyjordies/videos/1589835891137226/

Lol at some of those comments. It just reflects what I've observed this far, that the people who are making the biggest fuss about changing the date are:

a) White people taking offence on behalf of a group of people they assume all must think the same way 
b) City-dwelling people cashing in on the small degree of Aboriginal heritage they have 

The guy sometimes has opinions that I agree with but his arguments for it are always terrible. Geez, what a dumpster fire that video is.

Hahaha I just love the fact he goes after the attention seeking media/"news" sights like Buzzfeed, Pedestrian, Mamamia etc.

-PB

i just dont get the resistance to changing it. why the fuck not. some people have a real issue with the date which has been pretty arbitrarily picked from a range of dates. just stop being a pack of cnuts and let us pick a better day.

you get to have you flag waving douchery and it doesnt rub shit in peoples faces. it's win win.

imo it should be labour day. and we should get two days straight.  workers rights are what has been the greatest thing in this country. it's what gives us quality of life and came from real solidarity amongst australians. it would be sick maaate.

Why are we forced to always feel bad for previous generations wrong doings?
I grew up as a minority white and remember australia day being celebrated in towns like walgett, bourke and brewarrina. I came to victoria and it barely existed.

My family have a heritage of fleeing persecution, just on my mother's side her father's family fled prussia through religious persecution to return and then flee again during war, then on her mother's side her ancestors were moriori on chatham island. I barely even exist! But im here and its cool, though the football needs to be better. 

I love australia day, im not a flag waver but a bbq with mates is just perfect.

Just bloody change the date.  Then we can get onto the next thing to complain about. Though i doubt it would ever be that easy.

You are right it will be the next thing. Just read some of the comments on the blackfulla revolution FB page. It's full of racist sentiments.....(from both sides, fair share of trolling too).  

And that's where there's quite the conundrum, we love to beat the drum of celebrating Australia and multiculturalism (which in itself is immigration or invasion of this land of all races that aren't ATSI).

Damned if you do damned if you don't.

I think the whole point of NOT moving it is a bit silly when the date has been moved several times already. While I agree we shouldn't always go around "changing our history" I find it hard to follow that line of thinking if there are people out there that are affected or feel aggrieved by the date that it is now. 

I do also think that a lot of the rise in noise about Australia/Invasion Day is due to the general increase in social outrage in the last few years made popular by the likes of social media soapboxes (just an observation).

-PB

Aug 6th

His portrayal of "race perverts" vs normal people is spot-on though...

Ah friend of the forum, Rita Panahi. Her observations are always on point. I'm converted! 

Far too right of extreme left for you Jules haha!

Well yeah but mostly it's because she's proven plenty of times that she can't put a decent argument forward and support it with facts. She's just an outrage merchant peddling to people that already have a certain point of view. People here should be wary of it because they saw it first hand when they published her column about hooligans but i know confirmation bias is strong.

As I mentioned before, aside from the video posted in this thread (and a couple of others), friendlyjordies videos often agree with my view on things but his arguments are usually poor and often sensationalised. He's a Panahi/Devine/Bolt for under 35 males with a left of centre (economically) point of view.

She talks a lot of nonsense on Sky news. Pretty sure shes on the Bolt Show every 3 or 4 days so that tells you all you need to know about her. 

On another matter I had a conversation yesterday when someone said 'aboriginal'.  I said 'well you're not supposed to call them that anymore, you're supposed to say "indigenous".

Third person steps in and says 'actually you can't call them that either, you should say "first nations or first nations people".'

Lo and behold on that Tom Ballard ABC show there's Tom using the term 'first nations'.

Has the world gone mad?  Do 'blackfellas' actually care or are SJW's getting outraged on their behalf?


Need this bloke to answer:  http://www.betootaadvocate.com/uncategorized/aboriginal-friend-asked-to-speak-on-behalf-of-700000-people-in-passing-conversation/

It really isn't that hard.
There are 2 main distinct ethnic groups that for the people indigenous to the territories of Australia. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders. If you're talking about the Aboriginal people specifically, then using the term Aboriginal is fine. However when you're talking about more general issues at a national scale (i.e. things that affect both groups) then the full term "Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders, indigenous or first nations is more appropriate.

I don't think any reasonable person would be outraged if you used 3 of the 4 terms you used in your post in casual conversation, however you'd expect people in the media or politics to know which is most appropriate. Why get so worked up about it though?

I think you mean to say 'it really SHOULDN'T be that hard.'

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2015/08/why-saying-aborigine-isnt-ok-8-facts-about-indigenous-people-in-australia/
https://www.crikey.com.au/2012/08/15/indigenous-aboriginal-or-aborigine-its-not-black-and-white/

As for getting worked up about nothing (I'm not) shouldn't you be asking the perpetually outraged why they're getting so worked up about it?

I actually have read those articles before and pretty much confirms what I wrote. Indigenous has some baggage with it but it's still widely used and accepted by many in the community so pitchforks aren't going to come out for you for using that term.

Agreed its not that hard. I notice that induction forms for some sites "are you of first nation descent" these days. 

"Indigenous/First nations" is easier than saying "aboriginal and Torres Straight Islander" anyway. 

Mate whatever.  I just want to use the correct term without pissing someone off inadvertently. 

But it does beg the question that if it was ok to say 'aboriginal' and then not, and then it was ok to say 'indigenous' and then not how long will it be before 'first nations' will be a term that's become offensive?

It's a ridiculous, goal post moving, war of semantics.

I don't disagree with you, just saying I have noticed the change on some induction forms and I don't think its too hard to say indigenous. 

Society these days is about stepping on eggshells all day trying to not offend anyone. But we're straight white males, anything we say is invalid and loaded with privilege haha.

The issue with your premise is that you said Aboriginal wasn't ok to use and now it is. That's never been the case.

There are two problems with this "goal post moving, war of semantics" argument:
1. Language is constantly evolving and the terminology used for things change. It's not always because of the SJW PC brigade and causing offence.
2. Evidence is we're moving towards a point of consensus rather than flip flopping about. 

Anyway I'm not an expert at these things and no sane person expects the average joe working on engineering roads and bridges to get it 100% correct so why would they get pissed off inadvertently? 

I finished school in 2002, i studied australian history and we had member of the wathaurong come in... at that point aborigine was the preferred term, which as previously stated by someone else was the term used internationally.
Aboriginal was also used but not the preferred term. Then aborigine was frowned upon, now we use indiginous even though now that is becoming frowned upon and is perceived as if they are at the same level as plants etc etc. Now some areas are saying aborigines/aboriginals/first nations.

The other thing is not all the nation's agree, which makes it hard, they don't all agree that australia day is necessarily A bad thing. Its not as if all the nation's have voted for a spokesperson, if they have it appears its a twentysomething, sun avoiding, vegan art student from fitzroy.

You've got that arse about.  I said it was ok to say aboriginal and now it isn't.

And it was the case.

It still is ok to use the term Aboriginal ... the issue arose on the international stage because aborigine is a generic term to describe plants, animals or people first on the land. So Native Americans are aborigines, Inuits are aborigines, eucalypts are aborigines etc. etc. So internationally they were referred to as Australian Aborigines, government's (esp. federal) adopted Indigenous for many departments as it covered Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders under one umbrella (some states such as WA still have simply Aboriginal departments as the Torres Strait Islands are not in WA).

I don't believe First Nations is used in any official documentation (except in Canada where the term is from). I don't believe "nation" would be an accurate description of Aboriginal culture or society in Australia either. Most Aborigines identify themselves belonging to a certain "people" or land (and sea). Not a "nation".

Offensive to who though? The mostly white PC brigade? A handful of indigenous academics or politicians who have more in common with Australia's sociopolitical elite than those in remote communities? Moving the goalposts with words and terms is the only way for these types to stay relevant imo.

Left winger's despise any form of patriotism & nationalism in any form. Their pathetic agenda is so transparent.  

Going to a bunch of Australia Day celebrations tommorrow, I look forward to the little self righteous whiny socialist fucks turning up.  

Happy Australia Day & the self hating losers can go fuck themselves.   

Don't see what changing the date will achieve. People will just whinge at the new date being the new INVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASION DAY.

Changed my Fb status to Happy Australia Day with Aussie flags either side.

Will be fun to see who falls into the trap....