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Marki
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+x+x+x+xMy other criticism of our roster is that while we have versatility in many positions, our players are under pressure and trying to prove themselves in these games which has resulted in uncharacteristic errors. They are literally watching over their shoulders and after making an error, they are trying to make amends by doing something else risky. I'm actually impressed that Xerri hasn't fallen into this trap. He has played his role in the centres without over playing his hand. Although he and Hutch shot out of the line too early for that first try which exposed the fatigued Poasa and created the yawning gap, they will learn, but so should CC who will need to get better at identifying fatigue and time his interchanges better. This is the issue with your criticism of Burto. Unlike Hutch he was fantastic in defence. Unlike Hurch he put in a perfect kick almost every time. Unlike Hutch he set up Fox with his great kicking game. Unlike Hutch he threatened the line every time he ran the ball.
Burto outplayed Hutch very easily. If you compare the 2, Burton had an overall better game in this one. But it was based on one of his better kicking games, and relied on Hutch having a poor game. Hutch outplayed him in passing, running and general direction around the middle of the park. Burton plays well 1 in every 6 games. When I say well, I mean a game we expect him to have or exceed our expectations. For the other 5 he is well below his pay packet and often outshined by less recognised players. Passing the ball with no result is useless. Hutch certainly did a lot of that. Made a couple of breaks and passed it to nobody. Kicking game was non existent. Passing game was useless. So no he did not outplay Burton in passin, running or general direction.
Your bias against Burton is as obvious as it is stupid. Not everyone realises things at the same time. It's human nature. But you'll come around. Eventually. I was intrigued by a young Burton in his early days for Penrith. But I also figured his ceiling even before he got here. Was skeptical but still hoping he'd come good. But I was quite vocal in extending him too early. I felt the writing was on the wall. Haven't changed my opinion on him since and I think more have joined me in thinking he is best suited at centre. Can still make use of his kicking game like NSW does. But a playmaker he ain't. You can argue Hutch is no better. That's your opinion. By the looks of it, CC will give both the chance so let's see who can make a fist of it.
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Marki
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+x+x+x+x+xIn saying that I’m annoyed as much as anybody that Burto isn’t setting up his outside men and demanding the ball enough. But he will learn more this year and by years end will have more line break and/or try assists than any other player in the comp. Those figures are badly distorted. Burton looks like having high try assists coz he has been the main focal point of our attack. Don't be surprised if his figures drop this year as we have other players who can create things. Compare it to Eels or Panthers etc who share their try assists between Moses, Brown, Gutho or Cleary, Luai, Edwards etc. Having Flanno and Perham last year meant all our creative plays were mainly involving Burton. There’s no figures there… Maybe his stats go up this year cos we have players who can finish things instead of balls it up… Id reckon Burtos job was likely more difficult last year as the D only had one bloke on which to focus… He also played behind a badly beaten pack each week unlike the players you mention… Could go either way. The main goal would be to increase our try assists collectively (which would mean more points scored and ultimately more wins), rather than have 1 guy at the top of the NRL stat tree but playing in a bottom 4 ladder club..... Again the bias. And again the stupidity.
Penrith try assists. Nathan Cleary = 20
Critra = 15
Luai = 13
Tago = 8
What are you doing here? You're just reinforcing my post.
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Mick O
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+x+xPlenty of other teams have a focal point of attack. Clearly Burto having 16 try assists and being the 13th best overall in Try Assists point to the fact in a bad year he still is our most important player. And should be the main point of attack Hopefully he gets a little more space this year behind a better pack and with some class outside him more regularly, and a right right side that will hopefully draw a little more attention… Agreed.
Burto didn’t have Kiks last year. He needs a strong runner to give him more space. Also having Critta calling for the ball running great lines will help a lot. Seeing Burto kick for Fox and putting in pin point kicks is great so far. Hopefully the other two gives him everything he needs to make that side of the field the best in the comp.
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Mick O
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+x+x+x+x+x+xIn saying that I’m annoyed as much as anybody that Burto isn’t setting up his outside men and demanding the ball enough. But he will learn more this year and by years end will have more line break and/or try assists than any other player in the comp. Those figures are badly distorted. Burton looks like having high try assists coz he has been the main focal point of our attack. Don't be surprised if his figures drop this year as we have other players who can create things. Compare it to Eels or Panthers etc who share their try assists between Moses, Brown, Gutho or Cleary, Luai, Edwards etc. Having Flanno and Perham last year meant all our creative plays were mainly involving Burton. There’s no figures there… Maybe his stats go up this year cos we have players who can finish things instead of balls it up… Id reckon Burtos job was likely more difficult last year as the D only had one bloke on which to focus… He also played behind a badly beaten pack each week unlike the players you mention… Could go either way. The main goal would be to increase our try assists collectively (which would mean more points scored and ultimately more wins), rather than have 1 guy at the top of the NRL stat tree but playing in a bottom 4 ladder club..... Again the bias. And again the stupidity.
Penrith try assists. Nathan Cleary = 20
Critra = 15
Luai = 13
Tago = 8
What are you doing here? You're just reinforcing my post. You said Penrith share the try assists around between Cleary, Luai and Edwards. Clearly that isn’t the case.
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Marki
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+xMaybe even look at the Warriors try assists for more confirmation that one player can be the soul point of attack.
Shaun Johnson 29
Next best for them was Rocco Berry on 8 There you go.... Teams with focal point playmakers need the best part of 25-30 try assists to make the finals. Anything less and you either need to rethink your attack strategy or the player is just not able to get you to finals. Please note: this is not an attack solely on Burton.... I have been critical of the attack strategy also and hence why I was so scathing about CC's persistence with Perham and Gus not making a decent play at a recognised halfback.
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Marki
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+xPlenty of other teams have a focal point of attack. Clearly Burto having 16 try assists and being the 13th best overall in Try Assists point to the fact in a bad year he still is our most important player. And should be the main point of attack I see it differently..... I believe we should share the try assist with our other spine players to relieve him of the pressure. We can't play a single focal point game plan and have that player ranked 13th. Its directly correlated to a bottom ladder finish.
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Mick O
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+x+xIn saying that I’m annoyed as much as anybody that Burto isn’t setting up his outside men and demanding the ball enough. But he will learn more this year and by years end will have more line break and/or try assists than any other player in the comp. Those figures are badly distorted. Burton looks like having high try assists coz he has been the main focal point of our attack. Don't be surprised if his figures drop this year as we have other players who can create things. Compare it to Eels or Panthers etc who share their try assists between Moses, Brown, Gutho or Cleary, Luai, Edwards etc. Having Flanno and Perham last year meant all our creative plays were mainly involving Burton. Brown 16 Moses 15 Gutho 14 Try Assists. But probably a poor argument because they didn’t make the finals.
The teams that did like The Sharks, Warriors and Broncos had Johnson, Hynes and Walsh. All close to 30 with almost nobody in their teams doing better than Burto.
My point being is that your argument is terrible. If we had another point of attack Burto would most likely still get his 16 plus try assists. It would just help that somebody else is putting in too. Considering we had the second worst attacking figures in the game last year.
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hounddog
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Curran virus and Hughes head knock didn't play the 2nd half against Sharks.
I wondered what happened to Hughes, but I didn't notice urban missing.
Sutton is recovering from surgery , months away but hopefully fixed up properly
.
Everyone else is OK for round 1 though some will start the season on reserve grade.
Gus made no mention of Karl O, I think if he plays it will be lower grades for a while.
Sharks were missing Nicko, but overall I thought that we were slightly better in attack and defence for most of the game, but errors vcost us especially unforced errors.
When posession levels up towards the end of a game that can be misleading. The side that has had less ball for a lot of the game has used up a lot of energy.
Our lack of possession was mostly our fault. hutch forcing a pass after a line break is an example of what we need to fix.
Bring on round 1.
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Marki
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+x+x+xPlenty of other teams have a focal point of attack. Clearly Burto having 16 try assists and being the 13th best overall in Try Assists point to the fact in a bad year he still is our most important player. And should be the main point of attack Hopefully he gets a little more space this year behind a better pack and with some class outside him more regularly, and a right right side that will hopefully draw a little more attention… Agreed.
Burto didn’t have Kiks last year. He needs a strong runner to give him more space. Also having Critta calling for the ball running great lines will help a lot. Seeing Burto kick for Fox and putting in pin point kicks is great so far. Hopefully the other two gives him everything he needs to make that side of the field the best in the comp. I agree his kicks to wingers are great. But he can do those playing in the centres. His combination inside of Kikau was horrible last year and not much better in this last trial. It's like theyve never played together before. Swap them over (Kikau inside of Burton) and you'll them flourish off each other.
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Mick O
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+x+xMaybe even look at the Warriors try assists for more confirmation that one player can be the soul point of attack.
Shaun Johnson 29
Next best for them was Rocco Berry on 8 There you go.... Teams with focal point playmakers need the best part of 25-30 try assists to make the finals. Anything less and you either need to rethink your attack strategy or the player is just not able to get you to finals. Please note: this is not an attack solely on Burton.... I have been critical of the attack strategy also and hence why I was so scathing about CC's persistence with Perham and Gus not making a decent play at a recognised halfback. So like Penrith who won the comp????
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Mick O
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+x+x+x+xPlenty of other teams have a focal point of attack. Clearly Burto having 16 try assists and being the 13th best overall in Try Assists point to the fact in a bad year he still is our most important player. And should be the main point of attack Hopefully he gets a little more space this year behind a better pack and with some class outside him more regularly, and a right right side that will hopefully draw a little more attention… Agreed.
Burto didn’t have Kiks last year. He needs a strong runner to give him more space. Also having Critta calling for the ball running great lines will help a lot. Seeing Burto kick for Fox and putting in pin point kicks is great so far. Hopefully the other two gives him everything he needs to make that side of the field the best in the comp. I agree his kicks to wingers are great. But he can do those playing in the centres. His combination inside of Kikau was horrible last year and not much better in this last trial. It's like theyve never played together before. Swap them over (Kikau inside of Burton) and you'll them flourish off each other. They played five games together.
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hounddog
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+xI love the Mock… I love my missus… I’m just not sure who is never wrong less… Just hope your Misses doesn't read that, or it will be yet another winter in the backyard Kennel for you.
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hounddog
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+x+x+x+x+xPlenty of other teams have a focal point of attack. Clearly Burto having 16 try assists and being the 13th best overall in Try Assists point to the fact in a bad year he still is our most important player. And should be the main point of attack Hopefully he gets a little more space this year behind a better pack and with some class outside him more regularly, and a right right side that will hopefully draw a little more attention… Agreed.
Burto didn’t have Kiks last year. He needs a strong runner to give him more space. Also having Critta calling for the ball running great lines will help a lot. Seeing Burto kick for Fox and putting in pin point kicks is great so far. Hopefully the other two gives him everything he needs to make that side of the field the best in the comp. I agree his kicks to wingers are great. But he can do those playing in the centres. His combination inside of Kikau was horrible last year and not much better in this last trial. It's like theyve never played together before. Swap them over (Kikau inside of Burton) and you'll them flourish off each other. They played five games together. Like all players Kiks needs a run of games and we need him on the field.
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dman2018
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+x+x+x+x+xMy other criticism of our roster is that while we have versatility in many positions, our players are under pressure and trying to prove themselves in these games which has resulted in uncharacteristic errors. They are literally watching over their shoulders and after making an error, they are trying to make amends by doing something else risky. I'm actually impressed that Xerri hasn't fallen into this trap. He has played his role in the centres without over playing his hand. Although he and Hutch shot out of the line too early for that first try which exposed the fatigued Poasa and created the yawning gap, they will learn, but so should CC who will need to get better at identifying fatigue and time his interchanges better. This is the issue with your criticism of Burto. Unlike Hutch he was fantastic in defence. Unlike Hurch he put in a perfect kick almost every time. Unlike Hutch he set up Fox with his great kicking game. Unlike Hutch he threatened the line every time he ran the ball.
Burto outplayed Hutch very easily. If you compare the 2, Burton had an overall better game in this one. But it was based on one of his better kicking games, and relied on Hutch having a poor game. Hutch outplayed him in passing, running and general direction around the middle of the park. Burton plays well 1 in every 6 games. When I say well, I mean a game we expect him to have or exceed our expectations. For the other 5 he is well below his pay packet and often outshined by less recognised players. Passing the ball with no result is useless. Hutch certainly did a lot of that. Made a couple of breaks and passed it to nobody. Kicking game was non existent. Passing game was useless. So no he did not outplay Burton in passin, running or general direction.
Your bias against Burton is as obvious as it is stupid. Not everyone realises things at the same time. It's human nature. But you'll come around. Eventually. I was intrigued by a young Burton in his early days for Penrith. But I also figured his ceiling even before he got here. Was skeptical but still hoping he'd come good. But I was quite vocal in extending him too early. I felt the writing was on the wall. Haven't changed my opinion on him since and I think more have joined me in thinking he is best suited at centre. Can still make use of his kicking game like NSW does. But a playmaker he ain't. You can argue Hutch is no better. That's your opinion. By the looks of it, CC will give both the chance so let's see who can make a fist of it. #burtonderangementsyndrome…
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Marki
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIn saying that I’m annoyed as much as anybody that Burto isn’t setting up his outside men and demanding the ball enough. But he will learn more this year and by years end will have more line break and/or try assists than any other player in the comp. Those figures are badly distorted. Burton looks like having high try assists coz he has been the main focal point of our attack. Don't be surprised if his figures drop this year as we have other players who can create things. Compare it to Eels or Panthers etc who share their try assists between Moses, Brown, Gutho or Cleary, Luai, Edwards etc. Having Flanno and Perham last year meant all our creative plays were mainly involving Burton. There’s no figures there… Maybe his stats go up this year cos we have players who can finish things instead of balls it up… Id reckon Burtos job was likely more difficult last year as the D only had one bloke on which to focus… He also played behind a badly beaten pack each week unlike the players you mention… Could go either way. The main goal would be to increase our try assists collectively (which would mean more points scored and ultimately more wins), rather than have 1 guy at the top of the NRL stat tree but playing in a bottom 4 ladder club..... Again the bias. And again the stupidity.
Penrith try assists. Nathan Cleary = 20
Critra = 15
Luai = 13
Tago = 8
What are you doing here? You're just reinforcing my post. You said Penrith share the try assists around between Cleary, Luai and Edwards. Clearly that isn’t the case. How isn't it? You brought up the figures yourself. Couldn't have reinforced my post any better. I bet you can bring up Eels and Souths and Broncos and have a similar conclusion. Your stats on Warriors was interesting but at the same time unsurprising. SJ was nearly Dally M player and it needed him to have one of the highest try assists to get them to play finals. I don't like that game strategy as it's too cut-throat. It's no coincidence most top 4 teams share this stat.
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dman2018
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+x+xI love the Mock… I love my missus… I’m just not sure who is never wrong less… Just hope your Misses doesn't read that, or it will be yet another winter in the backyard Kennel for you. I havent made it back inside since last season yet…
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Mick O
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+xCurran virus and Hughes head knock didn't play the 2nd half against Sharks. I wondered what happened to Hughes, but I didn't notice urban missing. Sutton is recovering from surgery , months away but hopefully fixed up properly . Everyone else is OK for round 1 though some will start the season on reserve grade. Gus made no mention of Karl O, I think if he plays it will be lower grades for a while. Sharks were missing Nicko, but overall I thought that we were slightly better in attack and defence for most of the game, but errors vcost us especially unforced errors. When posession levels up towards the end of a game that can be misleading. The side that has had less ball for a lot of the game has used up a lot of energy. Our lack of possession was mostly our fault. hutch forcing a pass after a line break is an example of what we need to fix. Bring on round 1. Yes. We need a much better halfback. But Hutch is the best we have. Hopefully experience in big games had him golfing that pass in season proper.
I also agree a little with Marki that we need another ball player. Hopefully Taaffe provides that at fullback. He certainly has the skill, just needs more time to read the game and not panic. Hutch also can sniff out a try or two.
Last year almost every point came from Burton directly or indirectly. He needs some help. If another player or two can create a similar number if try’s we are a great chance at making the finals. That’s why I keep pushing for Critta to fullback.
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Marki
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+x+x+xIn saying that I’m annoyed as much as anybody that Burto isn’t setting up his outside men and demanding the ball enough. But he will learn more this year and by years end will have more line break and/or try assists than any other player in the comp. Those figures are badly distorted. Burton looks like having high try assists coz he has been the main focal point of our attack. Don't be surprised if his figures drop this year as we have other players who can create things. Compare it to Eels or Panthers etc who share their try assists between Moses, Brown, Gutho or Cleary, Luai, Edwards etc. Having Flanno and Perham last year meant all our creative plays were mainly involving Burton. Brown 16 Moses 15 Gutho 14 Try Assists. But probably a poor argument because they didn’t make the finals.
The teams that did like The Sharks, Warriors and Broncos had Johnson, Hynes and Walsh. All close to 30 with almost nobody in their teams doing better than Burto.
My point being is that your argument is terrible. If we had another point of attack Burto would most likely still get his 16 plus try assists. It would just help that somebody else is putting in too. Considering we had the second worst attacking figures in the game last year. I'm glad you posted these figures because it just keeps reinforcing what I'm saying. That Burton's 16 try assists in a team that uses him as it's focal point of attack is way below where it needs to be. I can't fathom how you can't see that and instead think it's a positive for him! It's a double whammy. To both him and to CC. If Burton is producing 15-16 try assists in amongst others in the team doing similar, then yes, it's good. But if he's doing 16 and the next best is 8 or fewer, it means his 16 is nowhere near enough or the whole gameplan is not suited. Pick one.
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hounddog
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If we are counting try assists we also need to count missed tackles, dropped balls,line breaks, bad passes, bad kicks etc.
Lacking a bit of size in the forwards we are currently going with bigger halves.
Burton's best attributes are his running game and kicking game.
If Kiks stays on the field , Burto will rack up try assists, even I would passing to Kiks.
Passing is something Burto needs to improve, but the rest of his game is great.
Fans don’t have to single out a player in the team to routinely rubbish.
OK if a guy bad week after week then most of us agree on that.
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Mick O
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIn saying that I’m annoyed as much as anybody that Burto isn’t setting up his outside men and demanding the ball enough. But he will learn more this year and by years end will have more line break and/or try assists than any other player in the comp. Those figures are badly distorted. Burton looks like having high try assists coz he has been the main focal point of our attack. Don't be surprised if his figures drop this year as we have other players who can create things. Compare it to Eels or Panthers etc who share their try assists between Moses, Brown, Gutho or Cleary, Luai, Edwards etc. Having Flanno and Perham last year meant all our creative plays were mainly involving Burton. There’s no figures there… Maybe his stats go up this year cos we have players who can finish things instead of balls it up… Id reckon Burtos job was likely more difficult last year as the D only had one bloke on which to focus… He also played behind a badly beaten pack each week unlike the players you mention… Could go either way. The main goal would be to increase our try assists collectively (which would mean more points scored and ultimately more wins), rather than have 1 guy at the top of the NRL stat tree but playing in a bottom 4 ladder club..... Again the bias. And again the stupidity.
Penrith try assists. Nathan Cleary = 20
Critra = 15
Luai = 13
Tago = 8
What are you doing here? You're just reinforcing my post. You said Penrith share the try assists around between Cleary, Luai and Edwards. Clearly that isn’t the case. How isn't it? You brought up the figures yourself. Couldn't have reinforced my post any better. I bet you can bring up Eels and Souths and Broncos and have a similar conclusion. Your stats on Warriors was interesting but at the same time unsurprising. SJ was nearly Dally M player and it needed him to have one of the highest try assists to get them to play finals. I don't like that game strategy as it's too cut-throat. It's no coincidence most top 4 teams share this stat. Edwards had six try assists. Not even in the top fifty. Why look at South’s, they missed the eight.
Look at NRL stats. Look at top eight teams. And spine players being clearly your most important players. You might get the point that not every team shares try assists evenly in the spine or in the team in general. And those teams still come close to or win the comp.
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Marki
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+x+xCurran virus and Hughes head knock didn't play the 2nd half against Sharks. I wondered what happened to Hughes, but I didn't notice urban missing. Sutton is recovering from surgery , months away but hopefully fixed up properly . Everyone else is OK for round 1 though some will start the season on reserve grade. Gus made no mention of Karl O, I think if he plays it will be lower grades for a while. Sharks were missing Nicko, but overall I thought that we were slightly better in attack and defence for most of the game, but errors vcost us especially unforced errors. When posession levels up towards the end of a game that can be misleading. The side that has had less ball for a lot of the game has used up a lot of energy. Our lack of possession was mostly our fault. hutch forcing a pass after a line break is an example of what we need to fix. Bring on round 1. Yes. We need a much better halfback. But Hutch is the best we have. Hopefully experience in big games had him golfing that pass in season proper.
I also agree a little with Marki that we need another ball player. Hopefully Taaffe provides that at fullback. He certainly has the skill, just needs more time to read the game and not panic. Hutch also can sniff out a try or two.
Last year almost every point came from Burton directly or indirectly. He needs some help. If another player or two can create a similar number if try’s we are a great chance at making the finals. That’s why I keep pushing for Critta to fullback. I think Taaffe can provide another point of attack (and try assists) and Critta can do the same at centre (just as you '23 stats show). The amount of points we surrendered persisting with Perham last year is immeasurable. But I think we all know it killed us. We can't have that again. If Taaffe cannot produce, Tracey might. I wouldn't move Critta there until both those options are exhausted.
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Mick O
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+x+x+x+xIn saying that I’m annoyed as much as anybody that Burto isn’t setting up his outside men and demanding the ball enough. But he will learn more this year and by years end will have more line break and/or try assists than any other player in the comp. Those figures are badly distorted. Burton looks like having high try assists coz he has been the main focal point of our attack. Don't be surprised if his figures drop this year as we have other players who can create things. Compare it to Eels or Panthers etc who share their try assists between Moses, Brown, Gutho or Cleary, Luai, Edwards etc. Having Flanno and Perham last year meant all our creative plays were mainly involving Burton. Brown 16 Moses 15 Gutho 14 Try Assists. But probably a poor argument because they didn’t make the finals.
The teams that did like The Sharks, Warriors and Broncos had Johnson, Hynes and Walsh. All close to 30 with almost nobody in their teams doing better than Burto.
My point being is that your argument is terrible. If we had another point of attack Burto would most likely still get his 16 plus try assists. It would just help that somebody else is putting in too. Considering we had the second worst attacking figures in the game last year. I'm glad you posted these figures because it just keeps reinforcing what I'm saying. That Burton's 16 try assists in a team that uses him as it's focal point of attack is way below where it needs to be. I can't fathom how you can't see that and instead think it's a positive for him! It's a double whammy. To both him and to CC. If Burton is producing 15-16 try assists in amongst others in the team doing similar, then yes, it's good. But if he's doing 16 and the next best is 8 or fewer, it means his 16 is nowhere near enough or the whole gameplan is not suited. Pick one. You brought up the Eels mate. They are doing what you want us to do and share the try assists and still missing the eight.
The point is obvious Marki.
Our only player that can create points is Burton. Moving him to the centres and having him not be able to create 16 try’s a year would mean we would do even worse. He is obviously our best half. In a year where he was considered poor he was still one of the best halves in the comp. Better than Moses for example.
Ciraldo is leaving Burton on an edge and certainly hasn’t made him the focal point of all our attack. If anything I would like him to see more ball. I think Ciro is deliberately trying to create other attacking options but simply hasn’t had the players to achieve this yet.
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dman2018
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+x+x+x+xIn saying that I’m annoyed as much as anybody that Burto isn’t setting up his outside men and demanding the ball enough. But he will learn more this year and by years end will have more line break and/or try assists than any other player in the comp. Those figures are badly distorted. Burton looks like having high try assists coz he has been the main focal point of our attack. Don't be surprised if his figures drop this year as we have other players who can create things. Compare it to Eels or Panthers etc who share their try assists between Moses, Brown, Gutho or Cleary, Luai, Edwards etc. Having Flanno and Perham last year meant all our creative plays were mainly involving Burton. Brown 16 Moses 15 Gutho 14 Try Assists. But probably a poor argument because they didn’t make the finals.
The teams that did like The Sharks, Warriors and Broncos had Johnson, Hynes and Walsh. All close to 30 with almost nobody in their teams doing better than Burto.
My point being is that your argument is terrible. If we had another point of attack Burto would most likely still get his 16 plus try assists. It would just help that somebody else is putting in too. Considering we had the second worst attacking figures in the game last year. I'm glad you posted these figures because it just keeps reinforcing what I'm saying. That Burton's 16 try assists in a team that uses him as it's focal point of attack is way below where it needs to be. I can't fathom how you can't see that and instead think it's a positive for him! It's a double whammy. To both him and to CC. If Burton is producing 15-16 try assists in amongst others in the team doing similar, then yes, it's good. But if he's doing 16 and the next best is 8 or fewer, it means his 16 is nowhere near enough or the whole gameplan is not suited. Pick one. You’re not taking into account he was playing behind a badly beaten pack, in a mostly second grade side, that only met during pre-season, with nothing to attract the Ds attention anywhere else in the field… He was a marked man… with nothing around him… unlike your Clearys and Mutch Misses… No top half in the game does any better in that team last year… #BDS…
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Mick O
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+x+x+xCurran virus and Hughes head knock didn't play the 2nd half against Sharks. I wondered what happened to Hughes, but I didn't notice urban missing. Sutton is recovering from surgery , months away but hopefully fixed up properly . Everyone else is OK for round 1 though some will start the season on reserve grade. Gus made no mention of Karl O, I think if he plays it will be lower grades for a while. Sharks were missing Nicko, but overall I thought that we were slightly better in attack and defence for most of the game, but errors vcost us especially unforced errors. When posession levels up towards the end of a game that can be misleading. The side that has had less ball for a lot of the game has used up a lot of energy. Our lack of possession was mostly our fault. hutch forcing a pass after a line break is an example of what we need to fix. Bring on round 1. Yes. We need a much better halfback. But Hutch is the best we have. Hopefully experience in big games had him golfing that pass in season proper.
I also agree a little with Marki that we need another ball player. Hopefully Taaffe provides that at fullback. He certainly has the skill, just needs more time to read the game and not panic. Hutch also can sniff out a try or two.
Last year almost every point came from Burton directly or indirectly. He needs some help. If another player or two can create a similar number if try’s we are a great chance at making the finals. That’s why I keep pushing for Critta to fullback. I think Taaffe can provide another point of attack (and try assists) and Critta can do the same at centre (just as you '23 stats show). The amount of points we surrendered persisting with Perham last year is immeasurable. But I think we all know it killed us. We can't have that again. If Taaffe cannot produce, Tracey might. I wouldn't move Critta there until both those options are exhausted. Agreed. It’s unfortunate that Tracey hasn’t been fit for pre season. It would have surprised me if he was that he wouldn’t be first choice fullback. Although I’m excited to see what Taaffe offers, like I said. He has the skill just not the smarts yet.
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hounddog
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+x+xCurran virus and Hughes head knock didn't play the 2nd half against Sharks. I wondered what happened to Hughes, but I didn't notice urban missing. Sutton is recovering from surgery , months away but hopefully fixed up properly . Everyone else is OK for round 1 though some will start the season on reserve grade. Gus made no mention of Karl O, I think if he plays it will be lower grades for a while. Sharks were missing Nicko, but overall I thought that we were slightly better in attack and defence for most of the game, but errors vcost us especially unforced errors. When posession levels up towards the end of a game that can be misleading. The side that has had less ball for a lot of the game has used up a lot of energy. Our lack of possession was mostly our fault. hutch forcing a pass after a line break is an example of what we need to fix. Bring on round 1. Yes. We need a much better halfback. But Hutch is the best we have. Hopefully experience in big games had him golfing that pass in season proper.
I also agree a little with Marki that we need another ball player. Hopefully Taaffe provides that at fullback. He certainly has the skill, just needs more time to read the game and not panic. Hutch also can sniff out a try or two.
Last year almost every point came from Burton directly or indirectly. He needs some help. If another player or two can create a similar number if try’s we are a great chance at making the finals. That’s why I keep pushing for Critta to fullback. I see Taaffe and Hutch as complementary, if I am picking one, I tend to go with the other. The try assist against Sharks was Curran. Over the course of the season I expect try assists from Curran, Kiks, Salmon, Mann, Taaffe and Marhoney as well as our halves. The style we are playing creates opportunities for all of those guys. If Taaffe doesn't work out I would try Tracey or Wilson. But trying Critter and promoting young Clark to NRL is worth a shot. I reckon Clark has possibly played his way into a top 30 spot.
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Marki
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIn saying that I’m annoyed as much as anybody that Burto isn’t setting up his outside men and demanding the ball enough. But he will learn more this year and by years end will have more line break and/or try assists than any other player in the comp. Those figures are badly distorted. Burton looks like having high try assists coz he has been the main focal point of our attack. Don't be surprised if his figures drop this year as we have other players who can create things. Compare it to Eels or Panthers etc who share their try assists between Moses, Brown, Gutho or Cleary, Luai, Edwards etc. Having Flanno and Perham last year meant all our creative plays were mainly involving Burton. There’s no figures there… Maybe his stats go up this year cos we have players who can finish things instead of balls it up… Id reckon Burtos job was likely more difficult last year as the D only had one bloke on which to focus… He also played behind a badly beaten pack each week unlike the players you mention… Could go either way. The main goal would be to increase our try assists collectively (which would mean more points scored and ultimately more wins), rather than have 1 guy at the top of the NRL stat tree but playing in a bottom 4 ladder club..... Again the bias. And again the stupidity.
Penrith try assists. Nathan Cleary = 20
Critra = 15
Luai = 13
Tago = 8
What are you doing here? You're just reinforcing my post. You said Penrith share the try assists around between Cleary, Luai and Edwards. Clearly that isn’t the case. How isn't it? You brought up the figures yourself. Couldn't have reinforced my post any better. I bet you can bring up Eels and Souths and Broncos and have a similar conclusion. Your stats on Warriors was interesting but at the same time unsurprising. SJ was nearly Dally M player and it needed him to have one of the highest try assists to get them to play finals. I don't like that game strategy as it's too cut-throat. It's no coincidence most top 4 teams share this stat. Edwards had six try assists. Not even in the top fifty. Why look at South’s, they missed the eight.
Look at NRL stats. Look at top eight teams. And spine players being clearly your most important players. You might get the point that not every team shares try assists evenly in the spine or in the team in general. And those teams still come close to or win the comp. It doesn't necessarily need to be spine players -but it's more likely. And it doesn't matter if they made the top 8 or not. You'll probably find Eels and Souths make top 4 this season with very little change from last year (just won't lose as many early season games). The point is, teams that rely on a single player as their focal point, have the odds stacked against them to play finals. That player must be a Barba, Hayne or Turbo or A Johns to get them in. And while it might happen once or twice in a decade, chances are it won't. We have the talent in this roster to share this stat so hopefully 24 is the beginning of changing our gameplan and attack.
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hounddog
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIn saying that I’m annoyed as much as anybody that Burto isn’t setting up his outside men and demanding the ball enough. But he will learn more this year and by years end will have more line break and/or try assists than any other player in the comp. Those figures are badly distorted. Burton looks like having high try assists coz he has been the main focal point of our attack. Don't be surprised if his figures drop this year as we have other players who can create things. Compare it to Eels or Panthers etc who share their try assists between Moses, Brown, Gutho or Cleary, Luai, Edwards etc. Having Flanno and Perham last year meant all our creative plays were mainly involving Burton. There’s no figures there… Maybe his stats go up this year cos we have players who can finish things instead of balls it up… Id reckon Burtos job was likely more difficult last year as the D only had one bloke on which to focus… He also played behind a badly beaten pack each week unlike the players you mention… Could go either way. The main goal would be to increase our try assists collectively (which would mean more points scored and ultimately more wins), rather than have 1 guy at the top of the NRL stat tree but playing in a bottom 4 ladder club..... Again the bias. And again the stupidity.
Penrith try assists. Nathan Cleary = 20
Critra = 15
Luai = 13
Tago = 8
What are you doing here? You're just reinforcing my post. You said Penrith share the try assists around between Cleary, Luai and Edwards. Clearly that isn’t the case. How isn't it? You brought up the figures yourself. Couldn't have reinforced my post any better. I bet you can bring up Eels and Souths and Broncos and have a similar conclusion. Your stats on Warriors was interesting but at the same time unsurprising. SJ was nearly Dally M player and it needed him to have one of the highest try assists to get them to play finals. I don't like that game strategy as it's too cut-throat. It's no coincidence most top 4 teams share this stat. Edwards had six try assists. Not even in the top fifty. Why look at South’s, they missed the eight.
Look at NRL stats. Look at top eight teams. And spine players being clearly your most important players. You might get the point that not every team shares try assists evenly in the spine or in the team in general. And those teams still come close to or win the comp. It doesn't necessarily need to be spine players -but it's more likely. And it doesn't matter if they made the top 8 or not. You'll probably find Eels and Souths make top 4 this season with very little change from last year (just won't lose as many early season games). The point is, teams that rely on a single player as their focal point, have the odds stacked against them to play finals. That player must be a Barba, Hayne or Turbo or A Johns to get them in. And while it might happen once or twice in a decade, chances are it won't. We have the talent in this roster to share this stat so hopefully 24 is the beginning of changing our gameplan and attack. We never intended to have Burto as a single focal point. Last season Flanno and Perham were not effective. We lost the forwards battle and out of the forwards left on deck none of them were ball players.
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Marki
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+xIn saying that I’m annoyed as much as anybody that Burto isn’t setting up his outside men and demanding the ball enough. But he will learn more this year and by years end will have more line break and/or try assists than any other player in the comp. Those figures are badly distorted. Burton looks like having high try assists coz he has been the main focal point of our attack. Don't be surprised if his figures drop this year as we have other players who can create things. Compare it to Eels or Panthers etc who share their try assists between Moses, Brown, Gutho or Cleary, Luai, Edwards etc. Having Flanno and Perham last year meant all our creative plays were mainly involving Burton. Brown 16 Moses 15 Gutho 14 Try Assists. But probably a poor argument because they didn’t make the finals.
The teams that did like The Sharks, Warriors and Broncos had Johnson, Hynes and Walsh. All close to 30 with almost nobody in their teams doing better than Burto.
My point being is that your argument is terrible. If we had another point of attack Burto would most likely still get his 16 plus try assists. It would just help that somebody else is putting in too. Considering we had the second worst attacking figures in the game last year. I'm glad you posted these figures because it just keeps reinforcing what I'm saying. That Burton's 16 try assists in a team that uses him as it's focal point of attack is way below where it needs to be. I can't fathom how you can't see that and instead think it's a positive for him! It's a double whammy. To both him and to CC. If Burton is producing 15-16 try assists in amongst others in the team doing similar, then yes, it's good. But if he's doing 16 and the next best is 8 or fewer, it means his 16 is nowhere near enough or the whole gameplan is not suited. Pick one. You brought up the Eels mate. They are doing what you want us to do and share the try assists and still missing the eight.
The point is obvious Marki.
Our only player that can create points is Burton. Moving him to the centres and having him not be able to create 16 try’s a year would mean we would do even worse. He is obviously our best half. In a year where he was considered poor he was still one of the best halves in the comp. Better than Moses for example.
Ciraldo is leaving Burton on an edge and certainly hasn’t made him the focal point of all our attack. If anything I would like him to see more ball. I think Ciro is deliberately trying to create other attacking options but simply hasn’t had the players to achieve this yet. Yes, I brought up Panthers, Eels and Broncos and Souths because the sharing of try assists in these teams is the blue print of success. And whilst South and Eels missed finals - it was an exception to the rule. They'll be top 4 this year you watch.
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hounddog
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+x+x+xCurran virus and Hughes head knock didn't play the 2nd half against Sharks. I wondered what happened to Hughes, but I didn't notice urban missing. Sutton is recovering from surgery , months away but hopefully fixed up properly . Everyone else is OK for round 1 though some will start the season on reserve grade. Gus made no mention of Karl O, I think if he plays it will be lower grades for a while. Sharks were missing Nicko, but overall I thought that we were slightly better in attack and defence for most of the game, but errors vcost us especially unforced errors. When posession levels up towards the end of a game that can be misleading. The side that has had less ball for a lot of the game has used up a lot of energy. Our lack of possession was mostly our fault. hutch forcing a pass after a line break is an example of what we need to fix. Bring on round 1. Yes. We need a much better halfback. But Hutch is the best we have. Hopefully experience in big games had him golfing that pass in season proper.
I also agree a little with Marki that we need another ball player. Hopefully Taaffe provides that at fullback. He certainly has the skill, just needs more time to read the game and not panic. Hutch also can sniff out a try or two.
Last year almost every point came from Burton directly or indirectly. He needs some help. If another player or two can create a similar number if try’s we are a great chance at making the finals. That’s why I keep pushing for Critta to fullback. I think Taaffe can provide another point of attack (and try assists) and Critta can do the same at centre (just as you '23 stats show). The amount of points we surrendered persisting with Perham last year is immeasurable. But I think we all know it killed us. We can't have that again. If Taaffe cannot produce, Tracey might. I wouldn't move Critta there until both those options are exhausted. Wilson also played a lot of fullback in the lower grades, close to our best player against the Sharks. 2 errors playing the ball, bit the 2nd one was probably a rake. Watch how often Wilson beats a defender one-on-one. From what I have seen so far this season only the drop of the easy catch by Taaffe concerns me. He had to make a play on the ball close to the sideline to prevent a 40/20. I would have expected him to knock it back in field, but it was a well executed play by the Sharks.
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dman2018
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.7K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIn saying that I’m annoyed as much as anybody that Burto isn’t setting up his outside men and demanding the ball enough. But he will learn more this year and by years end will have more line break and/or try assists than any other player in the comp. Those figures are badly distorted. Burton looks like having high try assists coz he has been the main focal point of our attack. Don't be surprised if his figures drop this year as we have other players who can create things. Compare it to Eels or Panthers etc who share their try assists between Moses, Brown, Gutho or Cleary, Luai, Edwards etc. Having Flanno and Perham last year meant all our creative plays were mainly involving Burton. There’s no figures there… Maybe his stats go up this year cos we have players who can finish things instead of balls it up… Id reckon Burtos job was likely more difficult last year as the D only had one bloke on which to focus… He also played behind a badly beaten pack each week unlike the players you mention… Could go either way. The main goal would be to increase our try assists collectively (which would mean more points scored and ultimately more wins), rather than have 1 guy at the top of the NRL stat tree but playing in a bottom 4 ladder club..... Again the bias. And again the stupidity.
Penrith try assists. Nathan Cleary = 20
Critra = 15
Luai = 13
Tago = 8
What are you doing here? You're just reinforcing my post. You said Penrith share the try assists around between Cleary, Luai and Edwards. Clearly that isn’t the case. How isn't it? You brought up the figures yourself. Couldn't have reinforced my post any better. I bet you can bring up Eels and Souths and Broncos and have a similar conclusion. Your stats on Warriors was interesting but at the same time unsurprising. SJ was nearly Dally M player and it needed him to have one of the highest try assists to get them to play finals. I don't like that game strategy as it's too cut-throat. It's no coincidence most top 4 teams share this stat. Edwards had six try assists. Not even in the top fifty. Why look at South’s, they missed the eight.
Look at NRL stats. Look at top eight teams. And spine players being clearly your most important players. You might get the point that not every team shares try assists evenly in the spine or in the team in general. And those teams still come close to or win the comp. It doesn't necessarily need to be spine players -but it's more likely. And it doesn't matter if they made the top 8 or not. You'll probably find Eels and Souths make top 4 this season with very little change from last year (just won't lose as many early season games). The point is, teams that rely on a single player as their focal point, have the odds stacked against them to play finals. That player must be a Barba, Hayne or Turbo or A Johns to get them in. And while it might happen once or twice in a decade, chances are it won't. We have the talent in this roster to share this stat so hopefully 24 is the beginning of changing our gameplan and attack. South’s were favourites to win the comp at end 11 and finished 4 and 9… So teams with a one player focus have the odds stacked against them…unless it’s Burto that is the focus in which case he’s shit… #BDS… I appreciate a couple of your posts are ending with some hope for a change…
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