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Nancy - 31 May 2019 6:08 PM
hounddog - 31 May 2019 5:19 PM

They have Ryan Gray under '18s kangaroo and Zac Hetherington. Rumour is they will not sign another hooker ...who knows? The Jacob Liddle's of the world aren't setting the world on fire but I don't want JMK there next year.

I think Hetherington had a run in reserve grade the other week.?

If they think one or both these young guys can potentially play NRL next year, we don't need to sign a top hooker.
Keep JMK, offer Lichaa a 1 year extension, or  sign a utility in place of Lichaa.
Most young guys need a year or 2 to learn the ropes in the NRL, especially playing at hooker, going with the young guy is good for the future, but can cost a few wins.
If we can get a fairly good hooker cheap place of Lichaa, that is great, it was good that Brittian didn't star for Souths, that will keep his price modest.
I'm only mentioning Brittian because of a lack of other viable alternatives. 
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hounddog - 1 Jun 2019 9:41 AM
DanD - 1 Jun 2019 8:27 AM

It all depends  on who they are replacing, if Britt is replacing Taulau that is an upgrade.

A guy will Britt would fit the description of a reserve grader being recruited, so not big money IMO.

While we need to add some class to our side, we also need to add some depth be weeding out the worst players in our top 30.
IMO the coach should be happy that everyone in the top 30 can play NRL when needed.

So far most of the signings, (even guys like Sue who  I though was a bad signing) have turned out good.
I can't think of anyone the current regime has signed who is a dud, Napa was a downgrade from Klem, but we had limited choices.

Dunno why Tualau didn't kick on. Seemed to go well under Des for a short time then fell away...like Lane at the Dogs I guess.

Been a while since we've developed any consistent players...but we've certainly been through a lot. 

Gotta hope this rubbish period in the club's history, doesn't last much longer.

I like Dean Pay but I can't see us prospering to the required Top 4 standard any time soon.

We need a top line, experienced coach first.



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DanD - 1 Jun 2019 10:01 AM
hounddog - 1 Jun 2019 9:41 AM

Dunno why Tualau didn't kick on. Seemed to go well under Des for a short time then fell away...like Lane at the Dogs I guess.

Been a while since we've developed any consistent players...but we've certainly been through a lot. 

Gotta hope this rubbish period in the club's history, doesn't last much longer.

I like Dean Pay but I can't see us prospering to the required Top 4 standard any time soon.

We need a top line, experienced coach first.



In terms of players recently developed, R Smith and Elliott are 2 names that come to mind.
Odgen a good signing who was further developed..... juniors were rubbish under Des.....
My main frustration is that Renouf T hasn't kicked on and hasn't got many opportunities in the NRL.
I admit last time Renouf got a run in the NRL he didn't look ready... but he has the talent and should get more chances.
Harper and Okunbor are progressing and look like NRL players to me.
What is surprising for the dogs is it has been a long time since we have produced a locally developed half back, hooker or in particular 2nd rowers.
With the exception of Elliott we haven't produced many 2nd rowers recently, most of the 70s, 80s and 90s  we had an endless production line of good 2nd rowers.
Edited
6 Years Ago by hounddog
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hounddog - 1 Jun 2019 10:10 AM
DanD - 1 Jun 2019 10:01 AM

In terms of players recently developed, R Smith and Elliott are 2 names that come to mind.
Odgen a good signing who was further developed..... juniors were rubbish under Des.....
My main frustration is that Renouf T hasn't kicked on and hasn't got many opportunities in the NRL.
I admit last time Renouf got a run in the NRL he didn't look ready... but he has the talent and should get more chances.
Harper and Okunbor are progressing and look like NRL players to me.
What is surprising for the dogs is it has been a long time since we have produced a locally developed half back, hooker or in particular 2nd rowers.
With the exception of Elliott we haven't produced many 2nd rowers recently, most of the 70s, 80s and 90s  we had an endless production line of good 2nd rowers.

HD I was careful to say "consistent" lol
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hounddog - 1 Jun 2019 9:34 AM
MNewton - 1 Jun 2019 7:47 AM

I'm 50/50 on Martin, Stimpson for Martin seems like a reasonable deal to me..

Essentially swapping an edge/middle forward for another edge/middle forward.

Martin is a good goal kicker and has some handy attacking skills, his defence and fitness are questionable...
Not saying Bellyache can't improve those areas.

Stimpson  is probably fitter, a better defender, and plays a bit tougher, although he is less skilful, and can't kick goals.

It all depends on the mix the coach wants, sometimes a a coach and player are on a different wavelength, 

Sometimes the coach has to go....
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DanD - 1 Jun 2019 10:01 AM
hounddog - 1 Jun 2019 9:41 AM

Dunno why Tualau didn't kick on. Seemed to go well under Des for a short time then fell away...like Lane at the Dogs I guess.

Been a while since we've developed any consistent players...but we've certainly been through a lot. 

Gotta hope this rubbish period in the club's history, doesn't last much longer.

I like Dean Pay but I can't see us prospering to the required Top 4 standard any time soon.

We need a top line, experienced coach first.



Spot on.
But at some stage, the team's "style of play" needs a thorough review. It cant all be the players or the coaches fault. 

I feel that this club is attached to a style of play from the 80's and 90's which is no longer efficient in the modern game. Might win you a game or string of games but in the long run, it will be trumped by the more versatile game styles used by other teams. 

It's why I want someone like Cronk as coach. He understands the game and knows when to change things up, no matter how good or bad the players are.
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hounddog - 1 Jun 2019 10:10 AM
DanD - 1 Jun 2019 10:01 AM

In terms of players recently developed, R Smith and Elliott are 2 names that come to mind.
Odgen a good signing who was further developed..... juniors were rubbish under Des.....
My main frustration is that Renouf T hasn't kicked on and hasn't got many opportunities in the NRL.
I admit last time Renouf got a run in the NRL he didn't look ready... but he has the talent and should get more chances.
Harper and Okunbor are progressing and look like NRL players to me.
What is surprising for the dogs is it has been a long time since we have produced a locally developed half back, hooker or in particular 2nd rowers.
With the exception of Elliott we haven't produced many 2nd rowers recently, most of the 70s, 80s and 90s  we had an endless production line of good 2nd rowers.

Anyone looks poor with our gamestyle.
Must admit, it's better than Desball but still well short of where it needs to be. 

Biggest issue is speed in attack and defence. 
Dont fix it, and we will be the Newcastle of the last decade.
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Marki - 1 Jun 2019 12:31 PM
hounddog - 1 Jun 2019 10:10 AM

Anyone looks poor with our gamestyle.
Must admit, it's better than Desball but still well short of where it needs to be. 

Biggest issue is speed in attack and defence. 
Dont fix it, and we will be the Newcastle of the last decade.

In the case of Taulau he doesn't even look that great in reserve grade,  sometimes it is nothing to do with style a player doesn't have it.

1/7/9 are the key positions on the field. We haven't had good options in those positions.
We are lacking a bit of speed in the backs, but players look slow when the ball moves slow, or goes the wrong way.

We need a better 9 and young guys like Lewis and Cogger need to work better with that 9 and move the ball quicker to the right places.

I have no idea why Tolman gets so involved in our attack or throws so many passes and why we have some many passes form middle forwards full-stop.

We were doing all of this and more under Des, it seems like Pay can't get the players to unlearn bad habits.
It also seemed like the players strayed away form the game plan against the Storm and a lot of that was the 9.

I will not be surprised if Lichaa is recalled this game, he may even play well, or much better than he has..

Ogden starting is a plus.

Let's see what happens, this game should be winnable...
 
Edited
6 Years Ago by hounddog
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hounddog - 1 Jun 2019 12:54 PM
Marki - 1 Jun 2019 12:31 PM

In the case of Taulau he doesn't even look that great in reserve grade,  sometimes it is nothing to do with style a player doesn't have it.

1/7/9 are the key positions on the field. We haven't had good options in those positions.
We are lacking a bit of speed in the backs, but players look slow when the ball moves slow, or goes the wrong way.

We need a better 9 and young guys like Lewis and Cogger need to work better with that 9 and move the ball quicker to the right places.

I have no idea why Tolman gets so involved in our attack or throws so many passes and why we have some many passes form middle forwards full-stop.

We were doing all of this and more under Des, it seems like Pay can't get the players to unlearn bad habits.
It also seemed like the players strayed away form the game plan against the Storm and a lot of that was the 9.

I will not be surprised if Lichaa is recalled this game, he may even play well, or much better than he has..

Ogden starting is a plus.

Let's see what happens, this game should be winnable...
 

This game IS winnable.
My only concern is the Raiders having to field a bunch of unknown players. Our guys, coach and gamestyle dont deal with unknowns very well. 
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My hunch.....  Martin will be dropped (Chris Smith dropped or moved to the bench, If Smith is retained, RFM, Sue or Danny omitted)
Elliott starting on one edge, Jackson starting in the middle.
Lichaa starting JMK to the bench.,
Will it work? Only if Lichaa plays well and runs more... only if JMK runs when he comes on...
Foran and Cogger share the kicking both kick well, we run hard and more direct and defend with intensity....
So basically ... who knows 
I think if Pay is changing things up, it is the right call... we were poor against the Storm....
Edited
6 Years Ago by hounddog
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hounddog - 1 Jun 2019 9:57 AM
Nancy - 31 May 2019 6:08 PM

I think Hetherington had a run in reserve grade the other week.?

If they think one or both these young guys can potentially play NRL next year, we don't need to sign a top hooker.
Keep JMK, offer Lichaa a 1 year extension, or  sign a utility in place of Lichaa.
Most young guys need a year or 2 to learn the ropes in the NRL, especially playing at hooker, going with the young guy is good for the future, but can cost a few wins.
If we can get a fairly good hooker cheap place of Lichaa, that is great, it was good that Brittian didn't star for Souths, that will keep his price modest.
I'm only mentioning Brittian because of a lack of other viable alternatives. 

Just admit it HD you are in love with Billy Brittain.
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hounddog - 1 Jun 2019 1:09 PM
My hunch.....  Martin will be dropped (Chris Smith dropped or moved to the bench, If Smith is retained, RFM, Sue or Danny omitted)
Elliott starting on one edge, Jackson starting in the middle.
Lichaa starting JMK to the bench.,
Will it work? Only if Lichaa plays well and runs more... only if JMK runs when he comes on...
Foran and Cogger share the kicking both kick well, we run hard and more direct and defend with intensity....
So basically ... who knows 
I think if Pay is changing things up, it is the right call... we were poor against the Storm....

With Foran in the team, we are basically telling the opposition that our 7 is the only kicker.

The 7 then becomes easy pickings for the opposition to rush on tackle 5. Your 7 has to be exceptional to overcome that pressure.

This philosophy is flawed. Anyone can see that and it's not fair on Lewis or Cogger to be under that kind of pressure. They are not experienced enough to deal with it and will make kicking mistakes as a result.

The solution? 
Either Meaney and JMK have to step up or you play Nu Brown at hooker.

Football is not a complex game. It's just made complex by pigheaded coaches who don't understand it.





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Nancy - 1 Jun 2019 1:14 PM
hounddog - 1 Jun 2019 9:57 AM

Just admit it HD you are in love with Billy Brittain.

Not  Dman/Duchty style bromance....

Billy is shouting me drinks for a night if I can get him a gig :)
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The seasons half over.  Plenty of time for Pay to have evaluated the players.  It's now time to pick and stick.  Pick a team for the next six games.  Let the players know so they're not playing with fear or inhibition (outside the game plan).  Those that don't come up, get rid of them and replace them with players on the same deal.  At the end of the  year be ruthless with the duds.
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Marki - 1 Jun 2019 1:17 PM
hounddog - 1 Jun 2019 1:09 PM

With Foran in the team, we are basically telling the opposition that our 7 is the only kicker.

The 7 then becomes easy pickings for the opposition to rush on tackle 5. Your 7 has to be exceptional to overcome that pressure.

This philosophy is flawed. Anyone can see that and it's not fair on Lewis or Cogger to be under that kind of pressure. They are not experienced enough to deal with it and will make kicking mistakes as a result.

The solution? 
Either Meaney and JMK have to step up or you play Nu Brown at hooker.

Football is not a complex game. It's just made complex by pigheaded coaches who don't understand it.





My only guess is Foran is carrying an injury,,, in that case run with Cogger and Lewis in the halves .... put Foran on the bench and bring him on for the last 20 mins.
Cogger was under pressure once the Storm realised he was our only kicker, while that cost us the game, it is valuable experience, an NRL half needs to handle it better. 
Edited
6 Years Ago by hounddog
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Mooloolabadog - 1 Jun 2019 1:48 PM
The seasons half over.  Plenty of time for Pay to have evaluated the players.  It's now time to pick and stick.  Pick a team for the next six games.  Let the players know so they're not playing with fear or inhibition (outside the game plan).  Those that don't come up, get rid of them and replace them with players on the same deal.  At the end of the  year be ruthless with the duds.

He might be doing, that but if Elliott is fit, I imagine he comes straight back in....

Lichaa might simply be there to cover injuries ... 

It just seemed to me the game plan against the Storm was run hard up the middle, we did it well for the first 10-15 mins.. then the team drifted away from it... if I'm coach I want players sticking to instructions ... 
Edited
6 Years Ago by hounddog
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hounddog - 1 Jun 2019 1:48 PM
Marki - 1 Jun 2019 1:17 PM

My only guess is Foran is carrying an injury,,, in that case run with Cogger and Lewis in the halves .... put Foran on the bench and bring him on for the last 20 mins.
Cogger was under pressure once the Storm realised he was our only kicker, while that cost us the game, it is valuable experience, an NRL half needs to handle it better. 

Bingo.
Been saying it for weeks now.
Our future is Lewis- Cogger. Foran should play 9 (coz he has the running instinct) and can also grubber (just about the only type of kick he is good for or can do with his injured feet). 

It's time the club was put first. Enough of this retirement home crap. 
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hounddog - 1 Jun 2019 1:52 PM
Mooloolabadog - 1 Jun 2019 1:48 PM

He might be doing, that but if Elliott is fit, I imagine he comes straight back in....

Lichaa might simply be there to cover injuries ... 

It just seemed to me the game plan against the Storm was run hard up the middle, we did it well for the first 10-15 mins.. then the team drifted away from it... if I'm coach I want players sticking to instructions ... 

Not sure about that...
You train and approach a game with a particular strategy (might be kick early, put pressure on halves, pressure rookies or injured players). 
But if on the day things change, and you cant implement that strategy or if the opposition has outsmarted you from the outset, you HAVE to change to combat them.

The aim if the game is to win. 
You must have a couple of ways to do so.

My gripe with our team from 2013 onwards has been that we are 1 dimensional. We got rid of all our unpredictable players (Barba, JR, Inu, Kasiano, Cook). We have (and still do) chase predictable type players. These are the guys you need when you have the unpredictable ones already in your team and are looking for some stability. Right now, we are overloaded with these types. 

What the club needs is a 2 or 3 year plan to get some players who can force change and play what's in front of them. The coach also needs to coach and train them accordingly. 

I'm yet to see this happen. 
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Marki - 1 Jun 2019 2:07 PM
hounddog - 1 Jun 2019 1:52 PM

Not sure about that...
You train and approach a game with a particular strategy (might be kick early, put pressure on halves, pressure rookies or injured players). 
But if on the day things change, and you cant implement that strategy or if the opposition has outsmarted you from the outset, you HAVE to change to combat them.

The aim if the game is to win. 
You must have a couple of ways to do so.

My gripe with our team from 2013 onwards has been that we are 1 dimensional. We got rid of all our unpredictable players (Barba, JR, Inu, Kasiano, Cook). We have (and still do) chase predictable type players. These are the guys you need when you have the unpredictable ones already in your team and are looking for some stability. Right now, we are overloaded with these types. 

What the club needs is a 2 or 3 year plan to get some players who can force change and play what's in front of them. The coach also needs to coach and train them accordingly. 

I'm yet to see this happen. 

Against the Storm the plan seemed to be working well, until the players stopped doing it.

That wasn't all we did wrong, it was only one game... hopefully they learn a few lessons...

It is fine for a player to ignore the coaches instructions, provided what the player does works.... if they keep ignoring instructions and it keeps being a failure, that is why we have reserve grade...  
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WTF Pay..... he’s dropped CHN to reggies????
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Villi - 1 Jun 2019 4:30 PM
WTF Pay..... he’s dropped CHN to reggies????

The problem is it was without explanation, so the hordes are going off their heads everywhere with endless vitriol & speculation.


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Villi - 1 Jun 2019 4:30 PM
WTF Pay..... he’s dropped CHN to reggies????

I didn't see that comming.. no logical reason for doing this that  i can think of
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hounddog - 1 Jun 2019 5:23 PM
Villi - 1 Jun 2019 4:30 PM

I didn't see that comming.. no logical reason for doing this that  i can think of


HD, I’m all for dropping players when they are out of form etc..... but he’s the only forward in the pack that has some x factor about him

Whats wrong with fekking Pay?


Even more pressure on him to deliver the win today against a depleted Raiders team
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Villi - 1 Jun 2019 5:26 PM
hounddog - 1 Jun 2019 5:23 PM


HD, I’m all for dropping players when they are out of form etc..... but he’s the only forward in the pack that has some x factor about him

Whats wrong with fekking Pay?


Even more pressure on him to deliver the win today against a depleted Raiders team

CHN only played 49 mins against the Storm, I don't want to rewatch that game, but I can't remember him doing much wrong. He was our best forward a few weeks ago.

If there is a logical explanation it has to be related to defence or unforced errors, again nothing particular comes to mind.

I don't yet think Pay has lost the plot, but there are some strange selections happening.



Edited
6 Years Ago by hounddog
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Villi - 1 Jun 2019 5:26 PM
hounddog - 1 Jun 2019 5:23 PM


HD, I’m all for dropping players when they are out of form etc..... but he’s the only forward in the pack that has some x factor about him

Whats wrong with fekking Pay?


Even more pressure on him to deliver the win today against a depleted Raiders team

WTF. Just got here and watched CHN score in reserves.

Pay has lost the plot.
nodster
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Marki - 1 Jun 2019 5:46 PM
Villi - 1 Jun 2019 5:26 PM

WTF. Just got here and watched CHN score in reserves.

Pay has lost the plot.

Yes, he scored as a hole runner in a set play.
It don't happen in first grade, our forwards on the edge just get the ball and get monstered because it is just pass the ball and see if someone can make a break.



tony v_2
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nodster - 1 Jun 2019 5:53 PM
Marki - 1 Jun 2019 5:46 PM

Yes, he scored as a hole runner in a set play.
It don't happen in first grade, our forwards on the edge just get the ball and get monstered because it is just pass the ball and see if someone can make a break.



my thoughts ar same nodster , if he got dropped from last weeks effort what about all the misses captian courage's  josh jackson he should of also got dropped 
but pay know best 
dman2018
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hounddog - 1 Jun 2019 5:36 PM
Villi - 1 Jun 2019 5:26 PM

CHN only played 49 mins against the Storm, I don't want to rewatch that game, but I can't remember him doing much wrong. He was our best forward a few weeks ago.

If there is a logical explanation it has to be related to defence or unforced errors, again nothing particular comes to mind.

I don't yet think Pay has lost the plot, but there are some strange selections happening.



A logical explanation would be lack of continued effort during a game and from week to week... He has only had one really good game... doesn't go looking for work... It's a kick up the bum, and its deserved..,
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dman2018 - 1 Jun 2019 6:30 PM
hounddog - 1 Jun 2019 5:36 PM

A logical explanation would be lack of continued effort during a game and from week to week... He has only had one really good game... doesn't go looking for work... It's a kick up the bum, and its deserved..,

One report said he'd missed the most tackles in the team...

Villi
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Kerrod Holland taken from the field..... Bulldogs staff have notified Dman he’s fine



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