The difference between Pay and Hasler is that Des wouldn't demote anyone and Pay demotes the wrong players. Unfortunately the end result is the same.

ODf , tell me its a nightmere i had , no dont im awake
@ lest we signed a good player in DWZ im
happy for this guy coming the next hopefuly 
is a centre & a hooker & we should be more 
competive 

So normally after a loss, the players led by Jackson & Floppa usually conduct TV interviews.... I wonder what will be said today?

These 2 do more talking off field that on it of late.... 

Come 4pm I’m expecting changes to this team....

There are a few other significant differences...

So my man Gagai wants to play center and is exploring his options with the arrival of Roberts at Souths.

I'd be on the phone tomorrow but you already know that and he'd be my center and straight into a leadership role.

14 based on yesterday's performance...

We have no need to "target" a coach, not even Flanaghan. I'd think he'd be the most suitable applicant myself but he can go through the applicant stage just like the dozens of others.

Yes I said "dozens." This is why we don't have to target a coach and someone should be shot if they do. We offer - deep pockets, outstanding facilities, and an opportunity to shape a roster almost from top to bottom.

The best available would be licking their lips at that. So let them come and let us pick the eyes out of them.

All we have to do is tell Dean he's not in our plans for '21 and the rest will fall into place. Once word gets out... and it will... Hill's phone will be swamped.

Perhaps even 18 :)

Assuming Pay gets to name a side, he has to make changes and fairly substantial changes in some areas.

I expect DWZ to play centre for now which is one problem potentially solved.

I would promote Renouf T and CHN,consider promoting Harper, and bringing Okunbor back in even if only off the bench...

I still think dropping players is better than not dropping them....

Pay is doing better than Des in terms of team selection IMO, Des did better in terms of motivation, but Des had guys like James Graham and John Morris in the team, good high work-rate defenders and motivated players.

I'm sure when Pay drops a player and tells them to work on an aspect  of their game, he is only copying what worked for Bellamy. Difference is all players listen to Bellamy some don't seem to be listening to Pay. This formula always works better in a successful confident team...

Right from round 1 our team has been lacking, energy, confidence and motivation, the players probably took a look at our squad and expected to be where we are...  Pay hasn't been able to combat that or even get our players making good decisions in attack and defence. Some of that poor decision making  is lack of confidence, some of it is using the wrong systems in the wrong games.

Pay is learning first hand how hard NRL coaching can be, we were were running with a weak inexperienced side, we needed a strong experienced coach. A big part of coaching is communication and being able to motivate players, I'm not overly critical as I know how hard it is, but if Pay has one last roll of the dice, he has to take it and make it count. He needs to consider how to get the players motivated and energised, I don't know the answer there but young players like Renouf T and Harper sometimes help...

He has also got a lot to work on in defence in particular, lots was wrong against the Dragons, systems , strategy, organisation, decision making, team work, energy and commitment,.... at present the Dragons would love to play us every week, we have no clue how to defend against them...
We were using up-and-in, when we should have been using up-hold-slide, and a lot of the time we didn't have many bodies in the frame...  

 

Yet there is also a similarity to Des style in that when they play expansive football they look good. But when they make a break or good metres they go for a hit up the next set. The opposition must love this. Maqrki will be posting a thousand I told you sos but Aidan Tolman is not needed in these situations...though I support 100% his value to the team. Renouf is needed. Even to the casual watcher his contribution to ths NSW Cup win was immense and had NRL stamped all over it.

Dean pay .... we got nick his our fullback
so where dose d w z play ? In the reggies
on foxsports nrl ,again pay is clueless

One thing worth trying is moving Tolman to the 2nd row and getting him to stay on that edge..

He is a good mobile high work rate defender and will hit the ball up.... on a edge the half has the option to cut him out.  

In the middle Tolman's natural inclination is to support the ball runner, but he gets the ball when faster players should be supporting and getting it. 
Same with support for a carry after a line break, he is enthusiastic and hard working, but ultimately gets in the way.
We don't have many mobile players who can work hard for 80 mins and always make the effort, so we need him in the team somewhere.

It is a shame that a player with a lot of good attributes is mostly remembered for his bad attributes and that only happens because he  is  enthusiastic, if he was "resting" out the back on plays we would not notice him.

Well perhaps DWZ could replace Montoya :)

Jeez we've been a shambles of a club since SBW left.
We haven't been able to find our feet for the past 20 years or so. Apart from one or 2 good seasons under Moore and Des it's been a constant rocky road. 

Mostly we haven't had the players ,... that all starts at board level ... who must make the right staff appointments.... 

We might have it all right now, but it takes time to rebuild the mess.

Des would have gone better if we kept him and his team well away from recruitment and retention... Des would have done better with better players .... Pay hasn't really got the players .. it all starts in the office... 

Probably true. The reality is the club, and us fans, have been living off past glories and still under the false belief that we are still one of the heavy weight teams. We aren't.

We have had an ill disciplined and lazy attitude in the club since way back then. ..except for a few limited years. The players continually caught up in rumours, gossip about unrest in the camp and not giving 100%. It's why we got Despot.

The roster has been run down with a heavy emphasis on forwards and no cultivation of halves or backs.  Juniors caught up in the politics of selective favourites and no one keeping the necessary eye on development.

Only a complete addressing of all the issues will see us succeed out of this mess. The Board probably look like they've identified this.

In the meantime, we can't just let this circus roll on as is. 

We have enough players to have won more than 3 games. The team is a shambles.    

That is true in terms of short term results, I am looking at the big picture why we are not a contender...

We haven't had a proper halfback since Kimmorley.... we haven't had a good 9 since Ennis ... JMK is showing some promise... but it is taking a while.

We have had props that would not scare a new born baby .... and 2nd rowers that can't play 80 minutes...

This current group of players have shown enough to suggest if they turn up with the right attitude, and cut out some of the dumb mistakes they would win more games. .. some of that is coaching, our defence was a shambles against the Dragons....

My only concern with him is his laid back attitude.
Like Hoppa, it could be ok for his own preparation but I feel as though our team needs players who look like they prepare well for games not the relaxed preparation that he portrays. 
What you reckon would be his $$$ value?

We dont play up and in.
We play hold and then get sucked in creating an overlap.

It's been our problem for years. 

In that case I have no idea what Montoya was doing against the Dragons, or where our other defenders where.... it looked like Montoya's aim was to tackle an imaginary player standing under the opposition goal posts...

Tolman should see out his contract and good luck to him after that. There might be a career for him in NFL in a defence team whose only intent is to preserve a lead. 

Once the team gets the ball, the offence team should come on to replace him. 

Tolman should have played in the 80's.

Seems to me there are only 3 types of operations that could deliver a premiership..."legally"

A) TPA' s that can gift you 3 elite players at 1M each without sending you over the cap
B) Back-ended deals where you can live through a couple of lean years and then hit the market hard in the hope of putting together an 11M team 
C) You unearth some star players along with some key recruitments to field a top team and hope you win the title that year or next before your roster becomes unmanageable

Roosters, Storm and Broncos seem to go with A.
Des acquired (C) in 2012 and nearly pulled it off. He then tried (B) in 2014. 

Our problem is that our club isnt a club to receive TPA's and the NRL has cracked down on (B).

So we are left with (C). We need to unearth the next Ben Barba and Josh Reynolds. This splurge in 2021 might just do it, but I think we need at least 7 good players to come from within. Not sure we have those yet so hoping some reserve graders can make a name for themselves in the next 2 years.

He was just shooting out of the line to make a ball and tackle but all he did create a staggered line and have up overlaps. Poor play from a team that likes to stay back with the ref and waits for the attack to come to them.

CHN is critical of this too and I suspect the reason why Pay dropped him. 

Instead of getting our players to move up like CHN, Pay wants CHN to play our diabolical defensive style.

This is why we need a full cleanout. 
By 2021, even CHN will be playing like Tolman.

Penrith panthers arnt finished yet
waga blake been told 2 look around 
what are the dogs waiting 4 i jump @ him
also campbell regan gillard also told 2
look around 

All before june 30th deadline 

I agree (C) is the option, but even the Storm are closer to (C) than (A) at times.

Some of the young players at the club have potential and recruitment should happen at all levels and at all ages.

Even taking the case of Tolman he isn't doing anything under Pay that he wasn't doing under Des, for years in fact, that isn't a problem with his ability, more playing to instructions or not playing to instructions, if he stayed at the Storm we would not be having this conversation. 

So the right coaching at all levels in the club can help players form good habits, rather than bad habits, what stands out to me is how well coached the Storm reserve grade side is and how much effort has gone into recruiting them...

If a club did everything in the lower grades consistently better than other NRL clubs, success at NRL level is very likely...

Again I think we got more wrong than right in the lower grades in the last 5-6 years... this year I am happy as a lot of young players are getting a chance in reserve grade and Nancy told me it is similar in all lower grade teams  ... mostly if they are good enough .. they are old enough.
 

Good players, would be good additions, but we need to move players on and have the money...

M is the only letter of the alphabet which followed by every vowel gives 5x 2 letter words. There are no 2 letter words with the letter "V" in them either front or back. 
Dallin Watene-Zelezniak is an amazing 47 points in scrabble...just what we need. 

Geez if we get RCG, we will be full of hyphenated names.....some of our single surname players might feel unwanted....

Imagine if we had single named Brazilians....