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Mick O
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThere is not gonna be any herd immunity, whether through infections or vacc’s. You’ll get it once, you’ll get it twice. At the moment the only known is that vacc’s help your body fight it and there is a much lower hospitalisation and mortality rate than the un-vacced. There is nil evidence of the same for a second or third dose of Covid if you’re not vacced. There will be no herd immunity, just as there is no herd immunity for the common cold - a corona virus. We will end up living with it. When it becomes endemic by definition it’ll easier to manage. While it’s pandemic not so much. You are probably correct. Almost guaranteed to be because of the vaccine rollout for every poor country has been terrible and even worse for some richer nations because of stupidity. But we still have a chance.
If the world can work together to create a vaccine in such a short timeframe we can work together to vaccinate the world. Unfirtunately Micko, this can only happen if the world changes its attention to getting the poor but willing to be vaccinated rather than boost the existing double vaxxed. In any case, the scientists have stuffed this one up but are too proud to admit it. They were talking herd immunity at 70-80% and AUS and Israel hit over 90% in over 12year olds and still nothing. Now the revised target is 80% of all population until they revise it again. The reality is there are anti-vaxxers that make up a good 5-10% of the population. Its also now growing. They certainly wouldnt vaccinate their kids. So no matter what the scientists think, its not just a matter of someone flicking a switch and these guys just roll their sleeve up. They (rightly or wrongly) use civil liberties to argue against it and that is that. My personal view is that even vaccinating the rest of the world is not enough and changing our mindset to live with the virus in the same way our 5-10 year old kids have lived with it in the last 2 years is the onky way mankind can move forward. Boost those that need or want it. Let the rest decide for themselves.
‘Antivaxxer’ numbers are far from increasing. If anything we have seen a drop in their ignorant views. Obviously stupid will always be a part of our society but with greater access to education that will diminish. Define antivaxxer? A person who promotes pseudoscience involving inoculation. So like the bloke Joe Biden in America when he said and I paraphrase "if you get the vaccine you won't go to hospital, ICU, and you won't die"... Certainly paraphrasing. But the evidence has shown that if you are vaccinated you are much less likely to end up in hospital, ICU or die. The problem is the numerous morons who don’t think that’s a fact. It paraphrasing by much... And it was a lie. Just making the point the pseudoscience is not exclusive to to the AV brigade... My point was that politicians are a poor source. But some more so than others. Example would be to compare Biden and his positive views that have saved lives verse Trumps which did the exact opposite.
Would I get my evidence from either of them. Of course not. I get my evidence from science journals such as ‘Nature’ and many others.
I’m trying to understand your point and I’m failing to understand. If you are simply trying to point out that there are many grey areas. I will agree. But would you also agree that one side of politics is pushing a more evidence based approach than the other?
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Mick O
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Group: Forum Members
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+xMicko, you like splashing that word "moron" about a lot. I hope you are not referring to the unvaccinated as morons. Obviously there are grey areas. Nuances in life will always exist. But if you are not vaccinated and have no reason other than fear of the vaccine I would certainly consider you a moron if you didn’t get vaccinated. Logically it’s the obvious decision.
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dman2018
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.7K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThere is not gonna be any herd immunity, whether through infections or vacc’s. You’ll get it once, you’ll get it twice. At the moment the only known is that vacc’s help your body fight it and there is a much lower hospitalisation and mortality rate than the un-vacced. There is nil evidence of the same for a second or third dose of Covid if you’re not vacced. There will be no herd immunity, just as there is no herd immunity for the common cold - a corona virus. We will end up living with it. When it becomes endemic by definition it’ll easier to manage. While it’s pandemic not so much. You are probably correct. Almost guaranteed to be because of the vaccine rollout for every poor country has been terrible and even worse for some richer nations because of stupidity. But we still have a chance.
If the world can work together to create a vaccine in such a short timeframe we can work together to vaccinate the world. Unfirtunately Micko, this can only happen if the world changes its attention to getting the poor but willing to be vaccinated rather than boost the existing double vaxxed. In any case, the scientists have stuffed this one up but are too proud to admit it. They were talking herd immunity at 70-80% and AUS and Israel hit over 90% in over 12year olds and still nothing. Now the revised target is 80% of all population until they revise it again. The reality is there are anti-vaxxers that make up a good 5-10% of the population. Its also now growing. They certainly wouldnt vaccinate their kids. So no matter what the scientists think, its not just a matter of someone flicking a switch and these guys just roll their sleeve up. They (rightly or wrongly) use civil liberties to argue against it and that is that. My personal view is that even vaccinating the rest of the world is not enough and changing our mindset to live with the virus in the same way our 5-10 year old kids have lived with it in the last 2 years is the onky way mankind can move forward. Boost those that need or want it. Let the rest decide for themselves.
‘Antivaxxer’ numbers are far from increasing. If anything we have seen a drop in their ignorant views. Obviously stupid will always be a part of our society but with greater access to education that will diminish. Define antivaxxer? A person who promotes pseudoscience involving inoculation. So like the bloke Joe Biden in America when he said and I paraphrase "if you get the vaccine you won't go to hospital, ICU, and you won't die"... Certainly paraphrasing. But the evidence has shown that if you are vaccinated you are much less likely to end up in hospital, ICU or die. The problem is the numerous morons who don’t think that’s a fact. It paraphrasing by much... And it was a lie. Just making the point the pseudoscience is not exclusive to to the AV brigade... My point was that politicians are a poor source. But some more so than others. Example would be to compare Biden and his positive views that have saved lives verse Trumps which did the exact opposite.
Would I get my evidence from either of them. Of course not. I get my evidence from science journals such as ‘Nature’ and many others.
I’m trying to understand your point and I’m failing to understand. If you are simply trying to point out that there are many grey areas. I will agree. But would you also agree that one side of politics is pushing a more evidence based approach than the other?
I was simply saying Joe B would fit your definition of an AV...
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dman2018
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.7K,
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+xTaking NSW as an example 342,000 cases, 689 deaths. NSW polulation over 8 million, so only around on person in 20 has had covid so far. Just scale that up to everyone catching it eventually that is another 120,000 deaths, if the death rate stayed the same. Kidding yourself if U think the confirmed case number is anywhere near the real number of cases... That goes for today, 3 months ago, 12 months ago etc... We were told for months and months that most people who get it have no symptoms... The death number could also be called into question... This has also been acknowledged for some time...
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Marki
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 6.7K,
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+xTaking NSW as an example 342,000 cases, 689 deaths. NSW polulation over 8 million, so only around on person in 20 has had covid so far. Just scale that up to everyone catching it eventually that is another 120,000 deaths, if the death rate stayed the same. Death rate wont stay the sane as vaccines came in only in second part of 2021 and most deaths were from 2020 or pre vax rollout. I think death rate after September 2021 is your only reasonable measure of the mortality rate.
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Mooloolabadog
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Posts: 2K,
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+x+xTaking NSW as an example 342,000 cases, 689 deaths. NSW polulation over 8 million, so only around on person in 20 has had covid so far. Just scale that up to everyone catching it eventually that is another 120,000 deaths, if the death rate stayed the same. Death rate wont stay the sane as vaccines came in only in second part of 2021 and most deaths were from 2020 or pre vax rollout. I think death rate after September 2021 is your only reasonable measure of the mortality rate. Yes. A scomo stuffup. The time to vaccinate was the first half of 2021 when we had minimal cases. The boosters then could have been much earlier. As for booster availability I was offered to be put on a waiting list of 200 by a local surgery because they had no vaccines. A government without forward thinking or planning.
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hounddog
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.9K,
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+x+xTaking NSW as an example 342,000 cases, 689 deaths. NSW polulation over 8 million, so only around on person in 20 has had covid so far. Just scale that up to everyone catching it eventually that is another 120,000 deaths, if the death rate stayed the same. Death rate wont stay the sane as vaccines came in only in second part of 2021 and most deaths were from 2020 or pre vax rollout. I think death rate after September 2021 is your only reasonable measure of the mortality rate. For the unvaccinated, the death rate will be the same around 1 in 500. All other factors average out, yes there were unrecorded cases. But the death rate is averaged over the total number of cases to date, there have been a lot more cases recently with a high percentage of the population vaccinated. The vax doesn't stop you catching it, but probably reduces the death rate to around 1 in 10,000. The chances of dying from the vax are around say 1 in 400,000. The survival rate is also better for Omicron, even for the unvaccinated it might be 1 in 10,000. For the vacinated and Omicron it might be 1 in 25,000. So for milder variants being vaccinated is less important, but there is nothing to say that the other variants especially delta, have gone away. The best case scenario now is for those that wont vaccinate catch Omicron, but not all at the same time. Keep the average cases as close to the death rate as possible so only 1 person dies by day on average, that should be the aim. Becuase that will ensure hospitals are not overloaded. Like Delta, Heart disease, Stroke, Cancer and road accidents haven't gone away. We don't want to put doctors in the position of deciding who they try to save and who they let die.
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dman2018
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.7K,
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+x+x+xTaking NSW as an example 342,000 cases, 689 deaths. NSW polulation over 8 million, so only around on person in 20 has had covid so far. Just scale that up to everyone catching it eventually that is another 120,000 deaths, if the death rate stayed the same. Death rate wont stay the sane as vaccines came in only in second part of 2021 and most deaths were from 2020 or pre vax rollout. I think death rate after September 2021 is your only reasonable measure of the mortality rate. For the unvaccinated, the death rate will be the same around 1 in 500. All other factors average out, yes there were unrecorded cases. But the death rate is averaged over the total number of cases to date, there have been a lot more cases recently with a high percentage of the population vaccinated. The vax doesn't stop you catching it, but probably reduces the death rate to around 1 in 10,000. The chances of dying from the vax are around say 1 in 400,000. The survival rate is also better for Omicron, even for the unvaccinated it might be 1 in 10,000. For the vacinated and Omicron it might be 1 in 25,000. So for milder variants being vaccinated is less important, but there is nothing to say that the other variants especially delta, have gone away. The best case scenario now is for those that wont vaccinate catch Omicron, but not all at the same time. Keep the average cases as close to the death rate as possible so only 1 person dies by day on average, that should be the aim. Becuase that will ensure hospitals are not overloaded. Like Delta, Heart disease, Stroke, Cancer and road accidents haven't gone away. We don't want to put doctors in the position of deciding who they try to save and who they let die. So U just made a bunch of numbers up???... Might be, probably???... Then also discount the fact the actual number of known cases is different to the number of positive cases by saying it averages out??? How does it average out???... if we don't know the actual number of cases (cos 75-85% of cases show no symptoms and were unlikely tested) then we must acknowledge the death rate is not correct... The best case for both vaccinated and unvaccinated is to catch Omicron... As for the last paragraph ABS data shows that deaths for pretty much every health issue except cancer trough at the same time C19 deaths peak...
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Marki
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 6.7K,
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+x+x+xTaking NSW as an example 342,000 cases, 689 deaths. NSW polulation over 8 million, so only around on person in 20 has had covid so far. Just scale that up to everyone catching it eventually that is another 120,000 deaths, if the death rate stayed the same. Death rate wont stay the sane as vaccines came in only in second part of 2021 and most deaths were from 2020 or pre vax rollout. I think death rate after September 2021 is your only reasonable measure of the mortality rate. Yes. A scomo stuffup. The time to vaccinate was the first half of 2021 when we had minimal cases. The boosters then could have been much earlier. As for booster availability I was offered to be put on a waiting list of 200 by a local surgery because they had no vaccines. A government without forward thinking or planning. I think its harsh to blame the government on timing of vaccine roll-out.... They banked on AZ but then a negative PR campaign was launched that undermined our roll-out. We also did the honourable humanitarian thing by not jumping the global queue for pfizer when other contries had high death rates with no vaccine access. People dont seem to praise the government when they do good. Only fire pot shots when their decisions don't prove to be the best (in hindsight). As mentioned numerous times, there seems to be no country who has got this right, because there IS NO solution. You just have to manouvre your way around the bumps and bruises. I cant blame them for making a decision off the back of our vax rate, hospital care capacity, low population density and border control. I think we were (are) in a positively unique position to try to live as close to normal with the virus and can become a benchmark for the rest of the world. The government saw an opportunity to take a step forward. It might look like it has backfired, but there may be silver lining yet to come. You might have to reserve judgement on them just yet.
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dman2018
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.7K,
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+x+x+x+xTaking NSW as an example 342,000 cases, 689 deaths. NSW polulation over 8 million, so only around on person in 20 has had covid so far. Just scale that up to everyone catching it eventually that is another 120,000 deaths, if the death rate stayed the same. Death rate wont stay the sane as vaccines came in only in second part of 2021 and most deaths were from 2020 or pre vax rollout. I think death rate after September 2021 is your only reasonable measure of the mortality rate. Yes. A scomo stuffup. The time to vaccinate was the first half of 2021 when we had minimal cases. The boosters then could have been much earlier. As for booster availability I was offered to be put on a waiting list of 200 by a local surgery because they had no vaccines. A government without forward thinking or planning. I think its harsh to blame the government on timing of vaccine roll-out.... They banked on AZ but then a negative PR campaign was launched that undermined our roll-out. We also did the honourable humanitarian thing by not jumping the global queue for pfizer when other contries had high death rates with no vaccine access. People dont seem to praise the government when they do good. Only fire pot shots when their decisions don't prove to be the best (in hindsight). As mentioned numerous times, there seems to be no country who has got this right, because there IS NO solution. You just have to manouvre your way around the bumps and bruises. I cant blame them for making a decision off the back of our vax rate, hospital care capacity, low population density and border control. I think we were (are) in a positively unique position to try to live as close to normal with the virus and can become a benchmark for the rest of the world. The government saw an opportunity to take a step forward. It might look like it has backfired, but there may be silver lining yet to come. You might have to reserve judgement on them just yet. Well and truly undermined, especially by Anna Alphabet and her cronies, and also the national ALP...
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dman2018
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Group: Forum Members
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How U feeling Marki???...
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hounddog
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.9K,
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+x+x+x+xTaking NSW as an example 342,000 cases, 689 deaths. NSW polulation over 8 million, so only around on person in 20 has had covid so far. Just scale that up to everyone catching it eventually that is another 120,000 deaths, if the death rate stayed the same. Death rate wont stay the sane as vaccines came in only in second part of 2021 and most deaths were from 2020 or pre vax rollout. I think death rate after September 2021 is your only reasonable measure of the mortality rate. For the unvaccinated, the death rate will be the same around 1 in 500. All other factors average out, yes there were unrecorded cases. But the death rate is averaged over the total number of cases to date, there have been a lot more cases recently with a high percentage of the population vaccinated. The vax doesn't stop you catching it, but probably reduces the death rate to around 1 in 10,000. The chances of dying from the vax are around say 1 in 400,000. The survival rate is also better for Omicron, even for the unvaccinated it might be 1 in 10,000. For the vacinated and Omicron it might be 1 in 25,000. So for milder variants being vaccinated is less important, but there is nothing to say that the other variants especially delta, have gone away. The best case scenario now is for those that wont vaccinate catch Omicron, but not all at the same time. Keep the average cases as close to the death rate as possible so only 1 person dies by day on average, that should be the aim. Becuase that will ensure hospitals are not overloaded. Like Delta, Heart disease, Stroke, Cancer and road accidents haven't gone away. We don't want to put doctors in the position of deciding who they try to save and who they let die. So U just made a bunch of numbers up???... Might be, probably???... Then also discount the fact the actual number of known cases is different to the number of positive cases by saying it averages out??? How does it average out???... if we don't know the actual number of cases (cos 75-85% of cases show no symptoms and were unlikely tested) then we must acknowledge the death rate is not correct... The best case for both vaccinated and unvaccinated is to catch Omicron... As for the last paragraph ABS data shows that deaths for pretty much every health issue except cancer trough at the same time C19 deaths peak... So far we haven't overloaded the hospital system, if we do the death rates from everything will go up. The numbers are my guesses simply applying logic to the stats, of course official properly compiled numbers are better. It was in response to ODF's numbers which incorrectly correlated total population with covid cases. We can only make that link when everyone has caught it. Let's face it, most of us look likely to catch at least one variant, or the unvaccinated it is best if they catch Omicron first, for the vacinated that is not as important vax gives more protection against older versions. It is also likely that the next variant will be milder than Omicron. There is a big difference between letting Omicron run wild now and letting the original version run wild. The death rates in New York, LA and parts of Europe when the original version sprialled out of control at the best guide there. I seem to remeber thousands dying in a single day.
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Mooloolabadog
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+xTaking NSW as an example 342,000 cases, 689 deaths. NSW polulation over 8 million, so only around on person in 20 has had covid so far. Just scale that up to everyone catching it eventually that is another 120,000 deaths, if the death rate stayed the same. Death rate wont stay the sane as vaccines came in only in second part of 2021 and most deaths were from 2020 or pre vax rollout. I think death rate after September 2021 is your only reasonable measure of the mortality rate. Yes. A scomo stuffup. The time to vaccinate was the first half of 2021 when we had minimal cases. The boosters then could have been much earlier. As for booster availability I was offered to be put on a waiting list of 200 by a local surgery because they had no vaccines. A government without forward thinking or planning. I think its harsh to blame the government on timing of vaccine roll-out.... They banked on AZ but then a negative PR campaign was launched that undermined our roll-out. We also did the honourable humanitarian thing by not jumping the global queue for pfizer when other contries had high death rates with no vaccine access. People dont seem to praise the government when they do good. Only fire pot shots when their decisions don't prove to be the best (in hindsight). As mentioned numerous times, there seems to be no country who has got this right, because there IS NO solution. You just have to manouvre your way around the bumps and bruises. I cant blame them for making a decision off the back of our vax rate, hospital care capacity, low population density and border control. I think we were (are) in a positively unique position to try to live as close to normal with the virus and can become a benchmark for the rest of the world. The government saw an opportunity to take a step forward. It might look like it has backfired, but there may be silver lining yet to come. You might have to reserve judgement on them just yet. Early before local manufacture we hardly had any vaccines.
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Mooloolabadog
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2K,
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+x+x+x+x+xTaking NSW as an example 342,000 cases, 689 deaths. NSW polulation over 8 million, so only around on person in 20 has had covid so far. Just scale that up to everyone catching it eventually that is another 120,000 deaths, if the death rate stayed the same. Death rate wont stay the sane as vaccines came in only in second part of 2021 and most deaths were from 2020 or pre vax rollout. I think death rate after September 2021 is your only reasonable measure of the mortality rate. For the unvaccinated, the death rate will be the same around 1 in 500. All other factors average out, yes there were unrecorded cases. But the death rate is averaged over the total number of cases to date, there have been a lot more cases recently with a high percentage of the population vaccinated. The vax doesn't stop you catching it, but probably reduces the death rate to around 1 in 10,000. The chances of dying from the vax are around say 1 in 400,000. The survival rate is also better for Omicron, even for the unvaccinated it might be 1 in 10,000. For the vacinated and Omicron it might be 1 in 25,000. So for milder variants being vaccinated is less important, but there is nothing to say that the other variants especially delta, have gone away. The best case scenario now is for those that wont vaccinate catch Omicron, but not all at the same time. Keep the average cases as close to the death rate as possible so only 1 person dies by day on average, that should be the aim. Becuase that will ensure hospitals are not overloaded. Like Delta, Heart disease, Stroke, Cancer and road accidents haven't gone away. We don't want to put doctors in the position of deciding who they try to save and who they let die. So U just made a bunch of numbers up???... Might be, probably???... Then also discount the fact the actual number of known cases is different to the number of positive cases by saying it averages out??? How does it average out???... if we don't know the actual number of cases (cos 75-85% of cases show no symptoms and were unlikely tested) then we must acknowledge the death rate is not correct... The best case for both vaccinated and unvaccinated is to catch Omicron... As for the last paragraph ABS data shows that deaths for pretty much every health issue except cancer trough at the same time C19 deaths peak... So far we haven't overloaded the hospital system, if we do the death rates from everything will go up. The numbers are my guesses simply applying logic to the stats, of course official properly compiled numbers are better. It was in response to ODF's numbers which incorrectly correlated total population with covid cases. We can only make that link when everyone has caught it. Let's face it, most of us look likely to catch at least one variant, or the unvaccinated it is best if they catch Omicron first, for the vacinated that is not as important vax gives more protection against older versions. It is also likely that the next variant will be milder than Omicron. There is a big difference between letting Omicron run wild now and letting the original version run wild. The death rates in New York, LA and parts of Europe when the original version sprialled out of control at the best guide there. I seem to remeber thousands dying in a single day. Long COVID gets neglected when stats are thrown about. It's significant, can be long term and its not clear if permanent damage may be done. Can also be the result of a fairly mild infection.
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hounddog
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.9K,
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I've got a strong hunch Dman's high school maths and science teachers were bitterly disappointed. 😁
Perhaps Villi can confirm?
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hounddog
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.9K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+xTaking NSW as an example 342,000 cases, 689 deaths. NSW polulation over 8 million, so only around on person in 20 has had covid so far. Just scale that up to everyone catching it eventually that is another 120,000 deaths, if the death rate stayed the same. Death rate wont stay the sane as vaccines came in only in second part of 2021 and most deaths were from 2020 or pre vax rollout. I think death rate after September 2021 is your only reasonable measure of the mortality rate. For the unvaccinated, the death rate will be the same around 1 in 500. All other factors average out, yes there were unrecorded cases. But the death rate is averaged over the total number of cases to date, there have been a lot more cases recently with a high percentage of the population vaccinated. The vax doesn't stop you catching it, but probably reduces the death rate to around 1 in 10,000. The chances of dying from the vax are around say 1 in 400,000. The survival rate is also better for Omicron, even for the unvaccinated it might be 1 in 10,000. For the vacinated and Omicron it might be 1 in 25,000. So for milder variants being vaccinated is less important, but there is nothing to say that the other variants especially delta, have gone away. The best case scenario now is for those that wont vaccinate catch Omicron, but not all at the same time. Keep the average cases as close to the death rate as possible so only 1 person dies by day on average, that should be the aim. Becuase that will ensure hospitals are not overloaded. Like Delta, Heart disease, Stroke, Cancer and road accidents haven't gone away. We don't want to put doctors in the position of deciding who they try to save and who they let die. So U just made a bunch of numbers up???... Might be, probably???... Then also discount the fact the actual number of known cases is different to the number of positive cases by saying it averages out??? How does it average out???... if we don't know the actual number of cases (cos 75-85% of cases show no symptoms and were unlikely tested) then we must acknowledge the death rate is not correct... The best case for both vaccinated and unvaccinated is to catch Omicron... As for the last paragraph ABS data shows that deaths for pretty much every health issue except cancer trough at the same time C19 deaths peak... So far we haven't overloaded the hospital system, if we do the death rates from everything will go up. The numbers are my guesses simply applying logic to the stats, of course official properly compiled numbers are better. It was in response to ODF's numbers which incorrectly correlated total population with covid cases. We can only make that link when everyone has caught it. Let's face it, most of us look likely to catch at least one variant, or the unvaccinated it is best if they catch Omicron first, for the vacinated that is not as important vax gives more protection against older versions. It is also likely that the next variant will be milder than Omicron. There is a big difference between letting Omicron run wild now and letting the original version run wild. The death rates in New York, LA and parts of Europe when the original version sprialled out of control at the best guide there. I seem to remeber thousands dying in a single day. Long COVID gets neglected when stats are thrown about. It's significant, can be long term and its not clear if permanent damage may be done. Can also be the result of a fairly mild infection. The stats only record whether or not someone has died so far from covid. There is very little data on lasting health impacts, chances of a relapse and life expectancy. There is even less data comparing vaccinated with unvaccinated. All we know is current hospitisation rates, ICU rates and death rates. There is less data on time to recover, long covid, health impacts etc.
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Marki
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Group: Forum Members
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+xHow U feeling Marki???... Mate im worse today than yesterday. I drove 9hrs with 2 x 20min stops from kingscliff to liverpool yesterday, but today i feel so slow, lethargic and spaced out. My body has a low white blood cell count which when im sick dips to dangerously low levels. Its the reason i got vaccinated in the first place. I encourage any unvaxxed sceptics out there, who have low immunity levels or a history of struggling to fight off influenza or colds to get bloody vaccinated. My bro in law who also has covid had to go to hospital and is now struggling with breathing at home. Hes unvaxxed. Poor form on his pigheaded behalf as he knew he had a history of struggling through other virus infections....
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hounddog
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+xHow U feeling Marki???... Mate im worse today than yesterday. I drove 9hrs with 2 x 20min stops from kingscliff to liverpool yesterday, but today i feel so slow, lethargic and spaced out. My body has a low white blood cell count which when im sick dips to dangerously low levels. Its the reason i got vaccinated in the first place. I encourage any unvaxxed sceptics out there, who have low immunity levels or a history of struggling to fight off influenza or colds to get bloody vaccinated. My bro in law who also has covid had to go to hospital and is now struggling with breathing at home. Hes unvaxxed. Poor form on his pigheaded behalf as he knew he had a history of struggling through other virus infections.... Good luck mate, in spite of our differences of opinion, Dogs fans are the best humans on the planet.
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hounddog
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xTaking NSW as an example 342,000 cases, 689 deaths. NSW polulation over 8 million, so only around on person in 20 has had covid so far. Just scale that up to everyone catching it eventually that is another 120,000 deaths, if the death rate stayed the same. Death rate wont stay the sane as vaccines came in only in second part of 2021 and most deaths were from 2020 or pre vax rollout. I think death rate after September 2021 is your only reasonable measure of the mortality rate. For the unvaccinated, the death rate will be the same around 1 in 500. All other factors average out, yes there were unrecorded cases. But the death rate is averaged over the total number of cases to date, there have been a lot more cases recently with a high percentage of the population vaccinated. The vax doesn't stop you catching it, but probably reduces the death rate to around 1 in 10,000. The chances of dying from the vax are around say 1 in 400,000. The survival rate is also better for Omicron, even for the unvaccinated it might be 1 in 10,000. For the vacinated and Omicron it might be 1 in 25,000. So for milder variants being vaccinated is less important, but there is nothing to say that the other variants especially delta, have gone away. The best case scenario now is for those that wont vaccinate catch Omicron, but not all at the same time. Keep the average cases as close to the death rate as possible so only 1 person dies by day on average, that should be the aim. Becuase that will ensure hospitals are not overloaded. Like Delta, Heart disease, Stroke, Cancer and road accidents haven't gone away. We don't want to put doctors in the position of deciding who they try to save and who they let die. So U just made a bunch of numbers up???... Might be, probably???... Then also discount the fact the actual number of known cases is different to the number of positive cases by saying it averages out??? How does it average out???... if we don't know the actual number of cases (cos 75-85% of cases show no symptoms and were unlikely tested) then we must acknowledge the death rate is not correct... The best case for both vaccinated and unvaccinated is to catch Omicron... As for the last paragraph ABS data shows that deaths for pretty much every health issue except cancer trough at the same time C19 deaths peak... So far we haven't overloaded the hospital system, if we do the death rates from everything will go up. The numbers are my guesses simply applying logic to the stats, of course official properly compiled numbers are better. It was in response to ODF's numbers which incorrectly correlated total population with covid cases. We can only make that link when everyone has caught it. Let's face it, most of us look likely to catch at least one variant, or the unvaccinated it is best if they catch Omicron first, for the vacinated that is not as important vax gives more protection against older versions. It is also likely that the next variant will be milder than Omicron. There is a big difference between letting Omicron run wild now and letting the original version run wild. The death rates in New York, LA and parts of Europe when the original version sprialled out of control at the best guide there. I seem to remeber thousands dying in a single day. Long COVID gets neglected when stats are thrown about. It's significant, can be long term and its not clear if permanent damage may be done. Can also be the result of a fairly mild infection. The stats only record whether or not someone has died so far from covid. There is very little data on lasting health impacts, chances of a relapse and life expectancy. There is even less data comparing vaccinated with unvaccinated. All we know is current hospitisation rates, ICU rates and death rates. There is less data on time to recover, long covid, health impacts etc. Science and medicine are always based on things we can measure. The government can end a lot of the debate by publishing sufficiently detailed stats.
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Marki
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+x+x+x+x+xTaking NSW as an example 342,000 cases, 689 deaths. NSW polulation over 8 million, so only around on person in 20 has had covid so far. Just scale that up to everyone catching it eventually that is another 120,000 deaths, if the death rate stayed the same. Death rate wont stay the sane as vaccines came in only in second part of 2021 and most deaths were from 2020 or pre vax rollout. I think death rate after September 2021 is your only reasonable measure of the mortality rate. Yes. A scomo stuffup. The time to vaccinate was the first half of 2021 when we had minimal cases. The boosters then could have been much earlier. As for booster availability I was offered to be put on a waiting list of 200 by a local surgery because they had no vaccines. A government without forward thinking or planning. I think its harsh to blame the government on timing of vaccine roll-out.... They banked on AZ but then a negative PR campaign was launched that undermined our roll-out. We also did the honourable humanitarian thing by not jumping the global queue for pfizer when other contries had high death rates with no vaccine access. People dont seem to praise the government when they do good. Only fire pot shots when their decisions don't prove to be the best (in hindsight). As mentioned numerous times, there seems to be no country who has got this right, because there IS NO solution. You just have to manouvre your way around the bumps and bruises. I cant blame them for making a decision off the back of our vax rate, hospital care capacity, low population density and border control. I think we were (are) in a positively unique position to try to live as close to normal with the virus and can become a benchmark for the rest of the world. The government saw an opportunity to take a step forward. It might look like it has backfired, but there may be silver lining yet to come. You might have to reserve judgement on them just yet. Early before local manufacture we hardly had any vaccines. Vaccines only really became important when delta came about which was mid '21. Prior to that, we had original covid under control with our suppression measures. The 3 times we have been caught out have been when the original virus hit our shores, when delta hit and when omikron hit. You can hardly blame any government without the benefit of hindsight....
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Marki
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+xTaking NSW as an example 342,000 cases, 689 deaths. NSW polulation over 8 million, so only around on person in 20 has had covid so far. Just scale that up to everyone catching it eventually that is another 120,000 deaths, if the death rate stayed the same. Death rate wont stay the sane as vaccines came in only in second part of 2021 and most deaths were from 2020 or pre vax rollout. I think death rate after September 2021 is your only reasonable measure of the mortality rate. For the unvaccinated, the death rate will be the same around 1 in 500. All other factors average out, yes there were unrecorded cases. But the death rate is averaged over the total number of cases to date, there have been a lot more cases recently with a high percentage of the population vaccinated. The vax doesn't stop you catching it, but probably reduces the death rate to around 1 in 10,000. The chances of dying from the vax are around say 1 in 400,000. The survival rate is also better for Omicron, even for the unvaccinated it might be 1 in 10,000. For the vacinated and Omicron it might be 1 in 25,000. So for milder variants being vaccinated is less important, but there is nothing to say that the other variants especially delta, have gone away. The best case scenario now is for those that wont vaccinate catch Omicron, but not all at the same time. Keep the average cases as close to the death rate as possible so only 1 person dies by day on average, that should be the aim. Becuase that will ensure hospitals are not overloaded. Like Delta, Heart disease, Stroke, Cancer and road accidents haven't gone away. We don't want to put doctors in the position of deciding who they try to save and who they let die. So U just made a bunch of numbers up???... Might be, probably???... Then also discount the fact the actual number of known cases is different to the number of positive cases by saying it averages out??? How does it average out???... if we don't know the actual number of cases (cos 75-85% of cases show no symptoms and were unlikely tested) then we must acknowledge the death rate is not correct... The best case for both vaccinated and unvaccinated is to catch Omicron... As for the last paragraph ABS data shows that deaths for pretty much every health issue except cancer trough at the same time C19 deaths peak... So far we haven't overloaded the hospital system, if we do the death rates from everything will go up. The numbers are my guesses simply applying logic to the stats, of course official properly compiled numbers are better. It was in response to ODF's numbers which incorrectly correlated total population with covid cases. We can only make that link when everyone has caught it. Let's face it, most of us look likely to catch at least one variant, or the unvaccinated it is best if they catch Omicron first, for the vacinated that is not as important vax gives more protection against older versions. It is also likely that the next variant will be milder than Omicron. There is a big difference between letting Omicron run wild now and letting the original version run wild. The death rates in New York, LA and parts of Europe when the original version sprialled out of control at the best guide there. I seem to remeber thousands dying in a single day. Long COVID gets neglected when stats are thrown about. It's significant, can be long term and its not clear if permanent damage may be done. Can also be the result of a fairly mild infection. One could say the same about vaccines! Especially on pre-pubescent kids.
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hounddog
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The Aussie bowking attack is going great at the moment.
Reminds me of great West Indian sides, hard to score against.
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Steveswr33333
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Mike Atherton sounds like Ringo Starr...almost 100% but fek I reckon Ringo would be a better commentator... "Scott Boland should take a photo of those bowling stats because they will never be as good again"... dah.. Scott Boland 2 for none!! Stick to the drums Athers.
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Marki
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Boland the Destroyer!
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Mick O
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+x+x+x+x+x+xTaking NSW as an example 342,000 cases, 689 deaths. NSW polulation over 8 million, so only around on person in 20 has had covid so far. Just scale that up to everyone catching it eventually that is another 120,000 deaths, if the death rate stayed the same. Death rate wont stay the sane as vaccines came in only in second part of 2021 and most deaths were from 2020 or pre vax rollout. I think death rate after September 2021 is your only reasonable measure of the mortality rate. Yes. A scomo stuffup. The time to vaccinate was the first half of 2021 when we had minimal cases. The boosters then could have been much earlier. As for booster availability I was offered to be put on a waiting list of 200 by a local surgery because they had no vaccines. A government without forward thinking or planning. I think its harsh to blame the government on timing of vaccine roll-out.... They banked on AZ but then a negative PR campaign was launched that undermined our roll-out. We also did the honourable humanitarian thing by not jumping the global queue for pfizer when other contries had high death rates with no vaccine access. People dont seem to praise the government when they do good. Only fire pot shots when their decisions don't prove to be the best (in hindsight). As mentioned numerous times, there seems to be no country who has got this right, because there IS NO solution. You just have to manouvre your way around the bumps and bruises. I cant blame them for making a decision off the back of our vax rate, hospital care capacity, low population density and border control. I think we were (are) in a positively unique position to try to live as close to normal with the virus and can become a benchmark for the rest of the world. The government saw an opportunity to take a step forward. It might look like it has backfired, but there may be silver lining yet to come. You might have to reserve judgement on them just yet. Early before local manufacture we hardly had any vaccines. Vaccines only really became important when delta came about which was mid '21. Prior to that, we had original covid under control with our suppression measures. The 3 times we have been caught out have been when the original virus hit our shores, when delta hit and when omikron hit. You can hardly blame any government without the benefit of hindsight.... I think blaming government for not providing quarantine facilities, vaccines and testing is fair. If the government leaders simply watched what happened in all other countries and listened to the advice from the medical/science community the above issues would have been dealt with over the last 24+ months.
Almost all advice was given on all these issues during the original outbreak in China/Italy and certainly continued during the waves in the USA and India. Albanese has been pushing for all these issues for at least 12 months. It’s obvious he didn’t get these ideas out of know where. He obviously had been advised about these issues. Any reasonable government would have listened.
I’ll leave it at that and say I hope you beat this virus asap. All the best
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dman2018
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Mandatory boosters in NSW for teachers, nurse etc.. What a shock...
So a volume of people may end up being forced into 3 jabs in the space of 5 months...
I can totally understand how people would support this type of stuff...
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ODF
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+xThe Aussie bowking attack is going great at the moment. Reminds me of great West Indian sides, hard to score against. Sounds like the women I hang around. Hard to score against.
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Marki
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Only thing that can stop him is.... a beach ball!
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ODF
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+xMandatory boosters in NSW for teachers, nurse etc.. What a shock... So a volume of people may end up being forced into 3 jabs in the space of 5 months... I can totally understand how people would support this type of stuff... dman, with this latest installment of the virus running rampant, I doubt there will be any of us that doesn't know somone who has, or at least had the virus, or have caught it themselves.
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dman2018
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+x+xMandatory boosters in NSW for teachers, nurse etc.. What a shock... So a volume of people may end up being forced into 3 jabs in the space of 5 months... I can totally understand how people would support this type of stuff... dman, with this latest installment of the virus running rampant, I doubt there will be any of us that doesn't know somone who has, or at least had the virus, or have caught it themselves. Extinction level event mate... I'm still under my doona with the lights off...
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