We desperately need good props. I think Ava might be a chance next week. Looked good in reserves. The more I look at our team for the future the more I think that Thompson should be in the 13 Jacko in the 12 and Elliot the 11. That leaves us short two props and a hooker. Who is available because we have the cash?

There was also a possible forward pass in the lead up to that try, I don't think that the bunker checks them.

We were well beaten this week, the score made us look slightly worse than we were.

Against Newcastle the 6 agains and posession flow really killed us.

The coach and players have a lot of things they need to fix, but the team isn't as bad as the scorelines suggest.

I thought the same. But the calls rarely go to the teams at the bottom. 

I have watched that on the NRL site and if you pause it at the right time he is onside.
My issue with that play is that the ball carrier stops because a teammate has ran in front of him possibly (I think probably) created a shepherd.
Everyone stopped then he kicked the ball and the try was scored. How do Penrith benefit from an illegal play?
Important time in the match.

There was a definite no try when Lauai kicked and the bloke coming through scored. YET they analysed our non try 100 times they didn't even check whether the player who scored was onside...he wasn't .....why is it so?

In drier conditions we can spread the ball more on yardage sets.

Hoppa and DWZ actually made good metres but defended poorly.

Meaney is defending very well. Cotric and Meaney, particularly Meaney need to do more yardage runs.
You can get the numbers if you don't do the runs, speed is power, run fast on a carry something might happen.

Yup, major problem above all else, metres.

Doesn’ help the back 3 aren’t making much either first couple after kick return, excepting Cotric who drops back because our wingers make zero. Ock may help but he’s months away and of course Fox will help... next year. Meaney for all his pace just won’t be a place in the team soon. Can’t hang on for the one moment he may be able to burn someone when he can’t push through a wet tissue on hit ups, and he’s got to hit it up those kick return tackles otherwise he’s just a wallflower.

Katoa is useless... especially when he thinks he’s playing halfback as first receiver 

The right roation and more posession can give players more energy to run harder.
I agree that good service from the hooker helps.

This is one reason why I think Schoupp is a good replacement for DWZ, both run hard and break tackles. DWZ simply makes too many mistakes, all kinds of mistakes.

I can't see what Katoa offers the side, he is a liability in attack and defence.

Everything T Baz has said in his post match comments has been spot on.... 

Odgen, Atoni and Hetheringon make good metres running the ball.
Odgen and Atoni just need to get fitter and play more minutes. 
RFM has been good in  the past, but is sadly injured again.
We are short one good starting prop because Napa is a dud and has played 2-3 good games, the whole time he has been at the club. Half the time he doesn't seem to be trying, when he is trying he makes lots of stupid mistakes.
Jackson, Elliott and Wardwell are all good mobile high work rate defenders, Wardell just needs to stop pushing the play.
If we play JMK, Jackson, Wardell and Elliott for long minutes, we can rotate the props and hopefully keep the defence tight.
If we have a bench 2nd rower and hooker, bring them on for say the last 15 mins - 2 interchanges, all other changes can be used for the props.
I can't see us getting a quality starting prop until Thompson returns, we will give up a bit of size moving Odgen to the bench, but it is a much better rotation.
We need to give the coach a chance, there is a lot to fix, what we are looking for is some improvement over the course of the season.

Guys, go back to physics and the theory of momentum.

P = m*v (mass times velocity)

You can either be a big bopper and run it up slow or be a lighter weight forward but hit the ball up with speed. Same momentum. Same energy exerted into the defence. The rest is how you make contact. If they tackle you effectively and stop you at your tracks or drop you, its different to holding you up and allowing you to keep the feet pumping and make another 5m post contact.

Our guys are both light, slow in hitting the ball up and have no idea how to manage their way in tackles. Guys like Tolman and Napa just flop at the feet of defenders. RFM, Cotric, Elliott and Hethro do hit the line with some speed and fight in the tackle. The other element in this is understanding when to give up the fight for a quick PTB and when to keep the legs pumping.

The storm do the last part better than anyone in the game.

The final and most important part to all this is that you need a hooker that can dictate the speed and have the defence pack pedalling. You have no idea if you dont appreciate how important it is for s hooker to run and send the defence I'm backpedal mode. You can have 50kgs forwards that would still make in roads purely because the defence is now waiting rather than rushing.

And the above is only when we have the ball and attacking. 

To dissect our issues when defending, I would need a 2000 page thesis.

Alarm bells sounded for me everytime a six again was called.

Villi is right. The biggest forward C'bury have is Napa & the Storm 2nd-rowers have him matched for weight etc. The Storm props exceed the Storm 2nd rowers for weight etc. It's a similar story with many other clubs. It doesn't mean the lighter C'bury forwards can't do the job in defense, but the C'bury forward carries are generally like running into a brick wall, as apposed to breaking through it like wrecking balls & making the extra yardage other teams are doing. As a team, they have to make up for it in other ways & even if they manage to do that it's not necessarily going to be enough to win consistently, but hopefully they will win more than last year. A lot of promising signs there so far. Just a few too many turnovers/penalties they haven't been able to defend etc.

Also alarm bells for me in that the right edge defence has been very easy to score against all 3 games.

Dropped balls and 6 agains killed us against the Knights.

We stayed in the contest a bit longer against the Panthers.

We need to stick with Flanagan and Averillo in the halves even though their defence needs work.
Take them out it is back to DesBall with a less competitive pack.

If/ when we fix some problems other aspects will improve.
For fowards the issue is posession and completions, stay in the game, complete sets and kick, defend our line.
The pack will do better if we stay in the fight.

The Sharks trial game set alarm bells off for me when our forwards looked small & could barely gain 30-40 metres in each set... that’s been the common thing for me against the Knights & Panthers. 

After 2 shit results in both Glory and Dogs getting beaten badly, the Hawks produced their greatest comeback by overturning a 40 point deficit at half time to win by 1.

I take that with Jacko, amazing defence but I only meant that he doesn't offer a lot in attack.
The team need someone else to step up in that regard. 
Maybe a firmer track may help, whenever that may be.

Jacko made 64 tackles zero misses, if he didn't make them we are beaten by well over 50.

No one in reserve grade seems capable of making 64 tackles and contributing to the attack.

Katoa and Napa were the forwards who contributed little.

For the right edge defence Hoppa jambed in to help Flanagan on the first Kikau try  DWZ stayed out.
2nd Kikau try Hoppa rushed up on his man leaving (behind) Flangan posted on Kikau.
Seeing how DWZ defended the first try, I can see why Hoppa made the decision 2nd time around.

Flanagan was never going to make a one-on-one tackle on Kikau or Crichton.
Most teams have similar centres and backrowers, a centre or backrower or Hooker has to help Flanagan out.

IMO Schoupp should come in for DWZ. We need also  to drop Katoa and Napa.
Topine, Doorey and Britt should be in the mix to replace Napa.
Topine or Dietz for Katoa.

What is needed in the forwards is more hard running and hard tackling, size is ideal, but effort and energy are essential.

BTW
I think Hetherington will only be an enforcer when he has an enforcing pack around. him.

Re the halves.
Our forwards were on the backfoot all day. Panthers were very very good in defence, obviously peeved by last year and out to prove themselves.
Our  attacking players (Avo + Cotric) were under fire whenever the ball went their way. Cotric only ran from broken play.
Both defended well.
What would Lewis have done to improve what happened out there.
Possession was 59/41 and our 41 was running from our quarter.
Penalties and ruck infringements are 22-6 against us in 2 games.
I would love to see Avo and Cotric run but I ask you how when they never get the ball without being swamped.
The Panthers knew who to stop and they did.
Forwards are the weakness. Really, Jacko is not a 13.
Hetherington came back after half time and in the first 2 6 tackle sets Hoppa had 3 runs and not one pass was sent to Hetho, 2 to Napa, 2 to Atoni, all for no gain. Also a couple of barges from Jacko who seems to have taken Tolman's role.
DEJA VU

Exactly. The game isn’t complicated. Just get big fit guys to run over the top of little guys and you generally win. We lack big guys that run hard. Our best is a Penrith reject who couldn’t make their bench and was loaned to another club. 

Wish we had some questionable ones

That’s horrendous.... 

We can Johns and Lockyer as halves and we’d still get pumped with our forward pack. Your looking at faults in the wrong areas.

No forward in our team made over a hundred meters. Most made less than 60. That snd the shit service from dummy half killed any chance of a win 

It gets very frustrating watching your team get beaten week in week out. We seem to be a luckless side where we are predominantly on the wrong side of the 50/50 calls.  I know that doesn't excuse our poor defence and non existent attack but we keep shooting ourselves in the foot with dumb lethargic football. There are some forwards that are so pedestrian they are a waste of cap space and need replacing ASAP. Anyway I am unhappy with the team ATM so I will reserve any further comments for next week.

HD, the concern was that we had very few chances in the opposition 20 because we couldnt get ourselves there.
We pretty much relied on Panthers error (Staines dropped bomb) or a penalty (2nd half).
The real concern is what we did with the limited chances inside their 20m...... we did nothing.

Huge concern that we had no idea what to do. Its almost like we didnt want to be in their 20m

I recon we were slightly unlucky to have the try ruled out.
Seemed to me that DWZ fumbled the ball straight up and the Panthers player contacted it with his head or something like that. The bunker was down, but came back on line in time to make the call.

At other times, other teams would have got away with it, even though no try was technically the right rulling.

If we fix the right edge defence, we stop the oppostition scoring, that boosts our confidence and dents theirs.

When we get tries ruled out confidence drops, being soft in defence makes us vulnerable to low confidence.

If we fix the defence, the attack will come, recruitment definitely improved the attack.

Being the worst defensive side in the comp practically guarantees you will win the spoon.

The priemers are often the best defensive side in the comp and are rarely outside the top 3.

Both attack and defence are important, poor performance in attack, puts pressure on the defence.
Poor defense never gives the attack any chance. That is the first 2 rounds in a nutshell.

In this game a silly penalty on a strip from Katoa gifted the Panthers field position then Hoppa and DWZ gifted the Panthers are try.
After that we played ok, then a foward pass from Kotoa stuffed up our attacking momentum.

In the end poor reads and poor misses gifted the Panthers another 2-3 tries.

Eveytime the score, we kick off they get more possession, all that extra posession ultimately counts.
End result is the oppostition has 70% posession, players are worn out from tackling.

Jackson and Elliott did a lot of work in defence, as did JMK when he came out, Waddell was also good.
It is deflating busting a gut in defence then having teammates make dumb errors and gift the opposition tries, then kick off and do it all over again.