As for Clarke over Hodge - Clarke more than proved himself in the later years. So the selectors in the long run were possibly proven more than right vis a vis Hodge. Lehmann in the early days - that's a different story altogether. But Clarke is not responsible for Marcus North being selected over Brad Hodge. Or many of the further questionable selections that happened in Aus's top 6 when Hodge was more than ready to prove his case. 

With you 100% Paddles. What a joke that was Marcus North preferred to Hodge. You did hear of this supposed " pencil thru his name.. never to play for Oz again"? Politics in sport stinks. There is talk following this culture review that selctions are to be based on conduct as well as performance. Is that a retrograde step Paddles?


Paddles I am still on LU.. created several movie quizzes there which keep getting some traffic. Look for my username in the entertainment sub forum.

Actually it is the Movies & Music Forum.

Pretty low averages for Taylor late in his career!

I read somewhere that Ponting's averages had also been declining for some time before he retired. At the same time I can remember Mike Hussey as a batter improving in his thirties and quite late in his career.

Test legend Steven Waugh has the answer to our spluttering Test batting performances and at he same time has answered a question that has been puzzling we purists for a long time. Why was the man so mentally resilient with bat in hand?

Tuggar maintains our elite male cricketers should return to their grassroots.. Premier Cricket (grade) when available.  He believes PC's unique challenges provide an ideal environment in which top level players "can improve their mental resilience as well as hone technical prowess". He has revealed he regularly used club commitments to test himself in preparation for high-pressure international duties. 

"In a lot of ways, I practiced my mental toughness playing grade cricket because it's harder to do well.

"You're expected to go out and get a hundred, you're expected to be successful, there's no crowd, there's no-one watching, there's no TV, but yet you've still got to perform.

"To me that was training for my mental toughness, because if I could do it there then it was easier to replicate it under pressure.

What a great batting coach Tuggar would have made. Even a head coach.

Tubby was not so much late in his career. What saved him, is that he was the captain. The irony is, that the Steve Waugh captaincy era could have started earlier!

Tubby is one of the luckiest cricketers I can think of who has became a big name from Australia. His whole career seemed to stem from a great Ashes tour in 1989. 

He was so scarce of talent for the ODI game that he was a massive weakness for Australia, His SR is 59. He was so poor, that it was a legitimate tactic to not try and get him out.

As for a test player, yes he got that 334* - but that pitch was an absolute road - and bar Akhtar - it was a very weak bowling attack. And it is well known how weak the English bowling of 89-97 was.

And it is odd, because Bradman was gifted. Miller was gifted. Benaud was gifted. Lawry was still much better than Tubby. So was I Chappell. G Chappell was gifted. Border was gifted. Then Tubby???? Then S Waugh who was gifted. Ponting who was gifted. Clarke was much better than Tubby. And Smith - who is gifted.

Australia really stuffed up in my opinion by giving the captaincy to Tubby, and in my opinion, he was a weak link in the test and ODI teams, to the point Bevan literally played as 4th bowler, to make up for Tubby's lack of runs, I believe that the Steve Waugh era of greatness would have started earlier had Tubby not been made captain. Because it is incredibly difficult to drop a captain, especially when the captain is popular with the players which Tubby was and still is.

Tubby was very ordinary as a cricketer, and his stats in my opinion flatter him. He made hay against weak attacks in conditions that suited.

 Spot on Paddles. Overated and oversized. The Tubman.

As for a test player, yes he got that 334* - but that pitch was an absolute road - and bar Akhtar - it was a very weak bowling attack. And it is well known how weak the English bowling of 89-97 was.
Tubby said himself that he declared on the Don's score as he was not in the same shadow as the great man. Or words to that affect. You bet he was not.

This summer is very interesting for Australia with so many batting holes in the international team that I think the domestic comp will get great interest as people argue selection merits of everyone bar Finch and Khawaja at this stage. 
It will be a difficult home summer for the Aus cricket fan - but there will be a lot of debate over selection merits. Should be interesting once the internationals get under way.

Paddles why do you say it will be a difficult summer for the Aussie cricket fan? Do you see India winning the series without the phenomenal Steve Smith? 

I think it is far more likely that India win with Aussie not having Smith and Warner, than if Aus still had them.

Lets be honest - India has the potential to bat Australia out of the games if the pitches are roads with Pujara, Rahane and of course - Kohli. Then there's Pant as well. And they may play Sharma at 6 with Hardik injured.

The question is - will the Aussies be able to keep out Yadav, Shami, Kumar, Sharma and possibly the best ever Indian bowler in Bumrah? And if not roads, the Indian bowlers were very impressive in England - where it was Woakes, Ali and Curran in the tail that won the series for England.

Basically - if Aussie serves India roads - Aussie has the better bowling but India has the much better batting with no Smith and Warner. But roads will suit Finch and Khawaja - as well as the Marsh's.

If Aussie greens it up - India still has Kohli - and suddenly the Indian bowlers are lethal and the matches become a shoot out.

I am not bothered by the Indian attack even on green tops. Oz has a world class attack on any decks.

Give a class seamer like Hazlewood some assistance and he can be deadly. A spiced up deck would make Cummins almost lethal. Starc needs swing to bring out his best but he does have one of the best yorkers in the business. 

 Lively, bouncy tracks would nullify Kohli , Rahane and co.  Is this wishful thinking on my part as three of our six Test tracks are dreaded drop ins which traditionally die after the first two days.

Can the curators give our superior attack at least fours days of bowling life? A Herculean effort me thinks. if not then yes  I would be worried about the Indians and their uncanny ability to bowl reverse better than us. 

We should have accepted  the greatest swing bowler ever imho Waqar Younis as our bowling coach a few years back but those nongs at CA knocked him back.

Nothing seems to nullify Kohli. He made runs in South Africa this year with the ball doing everything in shootout matches where the average innings was less than 200. He made runs in England with ball swinging around corners. He has already proven himself in Australia.

As for OZ having a world class attack on any deck, I think the Indian attack outperformed Australia's in the head to head in South Africa last summer. In 3 tests, they bowled SA out for 130, 194, 177, And they certainly gave England a real run for their money in the winter swingathon. They continually ripped the top order apart - the difference between the two teams was England's superior batting in the tail with Woakes and Curran.

I think if Australia go with roads, Aus has the much better attack than Indias with their extra height and pace - where Bumrah will be under absolute pressure to lead and Yadav bowls pies.

But if it gets spiced up, Shami and Kumar will surprise you I think as I have seen them get into their groove and move it in all directions. They're useless on roads, but they know when to feast on spice. Even I Sharma looks like a test bowler when getting some assistance from a Dukes ball. Bumrah too is dicey on the spice. Yadav still bowls pies.

The Indian attack is an interesting one - because Yadav, Sharma, Kumar, Shami, and Bumrah are all regulars, where typically only 2 or 3 of them play due to Ashwin, Jadeja and Pandya.

I think you may be underestimating India. They're hardened from SA and Eng in the past 12 months, they're ready for this tour. Their only blow is Pandya's injury. I would suggest that India should be firm favourites for the t20i and ODI - and even money at worst for the tests. The test team is all down to who Kohli selects. He has to get it right, and get it right from the get go (both in SA and Eng he started with the wrong teams in the first test and was behind in the series).

India had Vernon and Yadav bowling very fast a few years ago - both at one time touched 150 kph a few years ago. Sharma was also very quick. They could destroy out current fragile batting line up.

However, spinner Aswin recently looked innocuous on English wickets, although Jadeja looked better.  Many quality overseas spinners seem to struggle in Australia.

With our attack of Cummins, Hazlewood and Starc, it is unlikely all will be fit enough to play at the same time this summer. Without them we don't have a great attack at all.

We don't have top quality 125 -130 kph bowlers of the class of Philander, Anderson, Kyle Abbott and that excellent Pakistani who destroyed us in the UAE.  Their economical bowling doesn't put the strain on the body our express bowlers do. 

Bird seems to have been overlooked.

The young quick, Richardson, and Billy Stanlake, both very fast at their top, haven't demonstrated the ability to bowl for sustained periods with success in FC cricket yet.

The rest of the Aussie pace bowlers in the Shield are plodders, without the ability to worry quality opposition Test batters on a range of wickets. Maybe Neser has more potential?

Have to say it has been great picking up Baggers, Mike R and Paddles as regular posters on this forum.

They have added a lot of quality to our discussion!

This must now be the most active forum on Inside Sport/ 442 outside the Australian Football Forum. 

Bumrah is India's ace. He's 140+ but does it all. Batsmen have struggled with him all around the world.

Varun Aaron turned to pies. Yadav is quickish and bouncy - but lacks any control or movement. He seems to be Kohli's pet - I do not rate him at all.  Shami and Kumar know how to exploit seam and swing very nicely if the pitch is doing something. Even Sharma is controlled now and useful for spicy conditions - he's been working his butt off in England. But these three would suck on a road still. But you make a valid point - Shami on a road vs Mitch Marsh batting at 4 - it is closer than what many would think.

Mo Abbas is deadly. Agreed.

Tragedy for Austrralian fans is the endless injuries to Pattinson. Also - Nathan Coulter-Nile has shown some impressive bowling at times but again - so often injured. Appears as if he has quit red ball, though?

Bumrah has a jerky action which must surely mean injuries in the imminent future.

I've seen him bowl a bit, but he has never looked that lethal.

I may have missed his good spells.

I forgot about Coulter- Nile.

He has looked very good at times with a decent outswinger, but has had back injury issues.

We are also entering an era in cricket, where some very potent express bowlers are happy to earn a living playing LOC around the world instead of FC and Test cricket.

Think Shaun Tate, Dirk Nannes, Coulter- Nile and Stanlake. 

Not sure I'd call it jerky. That short hopping run up is bizarre, and the non - bowling arm looks like a frog in the blender - I mean his bowling action just is not pretty! But I am unable to think where he jerks in his action. To me I think that he pulls the ball through.

Yet - while looking innocuous - he has managed to become the best limited overs seamer in the world (I do believe this solely for his death bowling - he just chokes teams apart at the death) going at a mere 4.44 runs an over in ODI while playing oh so many 350+ par score matches. His yorker execution is outstanding hence his 6.79 E/R in t20i. It isn't like India offer assistance to seamers for the limited overs games. 

And now after 6 tests vs SA and Eng, he has rattled up 28 wickets at just over 25. I am not suggesting that in tests he is on a par with someone like Rabada. But Bumrah is India's seam bowling ace. Yadav is crap. 

I am certain that Stanlake is being managed totally by CA so there is not a repeat of Bruce Reid's career or worse. As his body grows older - and toughens up, he will be given longer bowling duties. They managed him from certain t20 games, to then 50 over stuff - and eventually they want him for red ball. That is why he has not played FC cricket since 2015 and just the 2 matches at that. Stanlake's height and build make his body atypical for fast bowling.

They're doing their best not to break him. But they do want him to be a test prospect one day.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/cricket/giant-fast-bowler-billy-stanlakes-workload-is-being-carefully-managed-to-try-to-stop-him-breaking-down/news-story/2007e65d6b0d9b3ffaf528ac3e238da5

https://yorkshireccc.com/news/view/6413/billy-stanlake-isn-t-about-to-give-up-on-his-test-match-dream

We thank you kindly DC. Blame me they followed me from our former forum.

Paddles[quote]
From what I have read, he has no plans of retirement at all just yet. Plus, he is bowling better than he ever has before. He is getting better and better. His averages and stats are improving all the time. I read he was given the option of missing the Sri Lanka tour, and he said "no way" even though he knows he will likely be rotated with Broad, as they up the spinners and keep the all-rounders.
He reckons he has it pretty sweet being a test specialist - so he gets a lot of off time. Iirc - that was imposed on him and Broad against their will - but maybe he has grown to enjoy and appreciate it.Paddles I just noticed these posts would be best in the General Discussioin thread. Wanna moved yours.[quote]
Are Jimmy's away performances improving as he has a fairly moderate record...compared to playing at home. He has a particularly poor record in Oz. I dont have the exact stats at hand.

Venue O M R W 5w 10w Best Avg S/R E/R Home 2958.4 774 8493 360 21 3 7/42 23.59 49.31 2.87 Away 2291.2 549 6647 204 5 0 6/42 32.58 67.39 2.90 Overall 5250 1323 15140 564 26 3 7/42 26.84 55.85 2.88

Honestly not a fan of us playing ODI's before the home test series

I am getting excited by the pace, bounce and movement of this new Perth Stadium track. How will it play on days 2 to 4 tho.. that remains the big question. 

Not a fan.. think it is a travesty to be honest. You can not guage red ball form on white ball form.

ODI team are also in a mess. Bunch of no hopers our batsmen. Four of the top six threw away their wickets. CA what would you have given for George Bailey to partner Alex Carey.

George is a better ODI batter than a Test batter.

There is merit in this.





One issue that infuriates Tas Cricket Association members, is that we think CA does less and less for our membership fees.

This year they've moved our regular Test to Canberra, who don't even have a Shield team. Although I think they should have one. We have lost out on a Test.

When I stood up at the annual members meeting and demanded a Test series in January, featuring a smaller cricket nation like Zimbabwe or Bangladesh (who've recently beaten Aus in their home country)  whilst incessant BBL is on, with the notion of a mooted series that could be played in Hobart, Canberra, Cairns or Darwin, the CEO claimed the Test cricketers were too tired!

I  responded they weren't. They were playing BBL or grade cricket, because there is no FC cricket in Australia for about 2 months in the middle of summer! And, if they were too fatigued, I suggested selecting some who wanted to play instead.

Then he chased me down at the end of the meeting and said the only series where CA made money was when England and India play here. All they care about is money, money, money.

Everything now revolves around BBL and the almighty dollar for CA.

Why schedule a ODI series, with no significance, as preparation for our imminent Test series  this summer?

I don't think Starc, Hazlewood and Cummins have played FC cricket since Pakistan and before that, South Africa?

As I was watching today's ODI, Cummins action takes a lot out of him and requires great effort. He will  struggle to last a Test series unless used in very short spells and doesn't bowl too many overs.

I thought Stoinis's action looked economical in tonight's ODI. He is much quicker than Sayers, bowling 130 -135 kph, and can bowl longer spells that don't take much out of him.

We desperately need a stock pace bowler with an economical action to do the donkey work - like Richard Hadlee late in his career. Ben Hifenhaus could also bowl a lot of overs, and apparently was one of the physically  strongest players to ever play Test cricket for Australia.

Maybe Hazlewood's action is the most economical of  the genuine fast bowlers, but Mitch Marsh is also a very big, heavy man who lands heavily and also can't be expected to the donkey work. Starc isn't a bowler who can bowl a lot of overs either.

1 - The test championship is the solution for the Big 3 profit scenario. It starts with the Ashes next year. If people want to win it, they will want to play weak teams at home for the championship points. Sutherland himself said Bangladesh tour of Australia would have happened this year if there were points up for grabs.

2 -Haze and Cummins played two "u23" FC games. Starc played the two tests which are very recent.

3 - Agreed - Stoinis looked a MUCH BETTER bowler than he did in the IPL or in England a few months ago. He is so much faster. He even got one ball to outswing for the wicket that was played on. He is bowling at respectable pace now (130-135) - he used to be a dibbly dobby. This was the biggest highlight and sole good thing for Australia from yesterday's match. Stoinis has proper pace now.

4- Haze yesterday would crank it up to 145, then return later at 135. He can do both, he is skilled at both. He will do as instructed. If they want a line and length at 135 - he will deliver. If they want more pace - he more deliver. He is quite skilled.

5 - Hadlee didn't do the donkey work. That was Snedden. Hadlee was the ace. A perfect example of a donkey work bowler right now is Neil Wagner. Totally fit, never gets the new ball, just charges in and bowls bouncers with the old ball until the new ball is ready for Southee and Boult.

DC you have it from the horses mouth. Kow towing to those with the game's purse strings the BCCI and the ICC. The are sickening.

With all respect Baggers, it is a pet hate of mine when people blame the ICC for something that is nothing to do with the ICC. The ICC is solely responsible for World Cups, World T20, and Champions Trophy. They do not organise test (or even limited overs) tours and never ever have.

They are however providing the test championship which will have a final between the two top teams every two years (this is the only match of all tests that the ICC is responsible for). All the boards have to arrange their own tours and matches. The ICC will simply award points to the results. The ICC is blamed too much and too often. 

The ICC is also powerless against the BCCI. BCCI threatened to boycott the Champions Trophy for an unequal share of the proceeds. The ICC member majority fought bravely, but the BCCI got what they wanted. BCCI get whatever they want, whenever they want it or they will pick up their bat and ball and go home. They've more cricket wealth than all the rest of the nations combined. And the poor nations need the crumbs so as to survive.

This year they've moved our regular Test to Canberra, who don't even have a Shield team. Although I think they should have one. We have lost out on a Test.  I enjoy watching Test cricket from Bellerive.. such a picturesque ground. It is not drop in either. Probably the reason for the move DC as CA wants matches to go full five days to rake in the revenue. Having said that, not certain Manuka is a drop in. 

You have found me our Paddles. I almost left them off the list. The ICC has been a "toothless tiger" in the past so not completely blameless. They have not done sufficient in bringing more nations into the game.. until very recently..
 Hats off where due. the Test Championship will revitalise our longest form of the game. A great initiative by the ICC and long overdue.