Cricket South Africa has a strict quota system at domestic level where all franchise teams are required to field at least six players of colour in their starting XIs, with three players required to be black Africans.
The national team, the Proteas, have targets they must adhere to. The target is to field an average of six players of colour in starting XIs over the course of a season, while two of those must be black African.  

My point was that white kids will not take up cricket if they see a dwindling chance to play either domestic or even less.. Test level  cricket.  I read that Abbott had been forced out by the quota system. Assumed then that Olivier had too.

Kevin Pietersen is the most hi profile of all Sth African born cricketers to have claimed he was disadvantaged by the player quota system. So much so he left the country and settled and played his cricket in England. There have been plenty since and the numbers will only grow and grow.

LOL! - What are you reading? Abbott destroyed Aus in Aus before quitting. There was no quota involved there. Abbott was good enough as a white player with or without quota. Just like Rabada, Philander, Amla and Ngidi are good enough without a black quota...

The national team has targets, but what you posted is not right for the national team... its percentages averaged out... to 80% of matches overall iirc... and they reg fall below it...

Abbott took money. So did Olivier...

If you want to defend EWCB, CA and BCCI greed, SA quotas is not the best defence... cos NZ, WI, and more countries would like our players back... WI want Archer, NZ want Stokes... shall I continue???

The truth is - as awkward as this is - that EWCB, CA and BCCI make a forune from intl cricket, while nowhere else does. So... the question is... do you want intl cricket... or franchise cricket... because as a Kiwi - I'm totally over it. I don't care anymore. Same with Safricans. Same with West Indians. Same with Pakistanis.

India, England and Aus - you have the money, we don't - WHAT DO YOU WANT? Do you want to pay for intl cricket or not? Cos you're the ones making all the money from intl cricket... if you wan play us, pay us. Or don't play us. We'd rather play each other if we're playing for free regardless.

Aus, Eng and Ind fans want to pretend cricket is a gloabl sport. It's not. It's 3 nations.... until you share... The fact England and Aus suck in a 3 nation sport - is just lolburgers and makes us laugh.... Our test players drive a Prius while your FC cricketers drive bmw's...

Abdul Qadir's son Usman Qadir, also a spinner from Pakistan, has played for WA in this seasons Sheffield Shield. Maybe he is now living in Perth but he seems to be an import of sorts.

Yeah - him and Fawed Ahmed moved to Australia to live I believe. But I am really not sure on the Aussie rules right now for those who are not moving there.

https://www.theroar.com.au/2014/01/31/should-sheffield-shield-teams-field-foreign-players/

Botha caused a stir 4 years ago. To me it seems that Australian states are not interested in anyone who still plays intl cricket for someone other than Australia. They actually want the person playing for them, and not simply getting called up by an intl team. Plus I think for the most part, the states just aren't interested in recruiting them. Sangakarra and Chanderpaul would have been obvious targets when they were retrired from intl cricket, they continued in county for years making huge runs, but they didn't pop up in Sheffield Shield.

In the old days you had Botham, Khan, Viv and many game's greats play Shield...

Ahmed has been an Oz citizen for five or so years. Botha is now one while I understand Qadir is about to become one.

Makes sense. So there are no foreign imports then, just those who have moved to Aus?

I will continue on this tack re players leaving Sth Africa. Recently retired  Saffer quick Morne Morkel fears for the situation.. saying this week that  "others will join  Duane Olivier, Rilee Rossouw and Kyle Abbott in choosing the security of a long-term deal in English county cricket instead of the chance to play internationally with the Proteas.

Morkel has called on Cricket South Africa (CSA) to take action to prevent the drain of talented players away from his homeland.
The  86-Test veteran acknowledges the "tricky" and complex situation, but he says the CSA must be " more proactive to keep the nation's best players in Proteas colours." They (CSA)  have to sit down and come up with plans because they're going to lose a lot of players in the near future and they need to protect against this player drain".  There is no mention by Morkel of the player quota system? Also notice the player drain does not include any African Saffers.

As far as I am aware.

Did I mention Morkel, who is married  to an Aussie and now lives here, is looking at a stint in Shield cricket. He has mooted becoming a citizen too. Pity this was not Olivier.. as I really rate him. Now looks as tho the Poms will get their claws into him in three years when he becomes eligible for England.. or is it four years? Used to be seven. I have a problem with the ECB reducing the eligibility laws to allow a foreigner an easier passage into the England team.  It is not sending a very good message to the aspiring home grown youngster.  In fact if I was the parent of a talented junior I would be seething.

Its not the quotas that make established intl stars leave. They've already made it to the top despite the quotas. For AbDV, MMorkel, Olivier, it's about money and financial security. There is also the appeal of leaving SA for more political reasons. The problem is not limited to SA, Stokes chose England over NZ due to the financial security provided - the county system signed him young and he stayed in England. Archa chose Eng over WI due to money.

The money imbalance in world cricket is a real issue that needs to be addressed and considered more carefully. Right now, people are sweeping it under the rug and not wanting to deal with it, but as the becomes more global, as migration becomes more of a thing, this issue will continue to develop.

The quota problem is another burden for SA as they are losing a lot of their talented youth to NZ, Aus and Eng. The NZ first class scene is full of talented Saffir players. As has the England system been previously. This is for more guaranteed opportunities, but a lot of people simply wish to leave Safrica as well.

If I was the parent of a talented cricketer, I have to admit, my advice to him would be to move to England. There is far more money there, far more teams there, and the chance to build a legitimate career just in the FC scene. 18 counties, paying handsome wages, makes it very appealing for many. But those that did not make it into England and come to NZ are doing very well. Devon Conway dominates the FC scene here, and superkid Dean Foxcroft seems well on his way for a bright career.

New Zealand crushed a weakened Banglasdesh team but they managed 429 in their second innings on the back of large hundreds by Soumya Sarkar and Mahmudallah. Opener Tamin Iqbal managed 126 and 74 in the match. 
Bangladesh are not a great team but they do have some players who can play. It would be good to see their full strength side here in Australia. 

Those 3 had a good game, and they are missing Shakib obviously, but they went down very softly to Wagner in the first innings. Tamim had a game plan of smashing the NZ swingers through the covers, just drove at everything outside off. He was a joy to watch. It was fine counter attacking stuff.

But their bowling is dire and not good viewing I'm afraid to say. If NZ had not declared, a total of 900 was seriously on the cards. They had absolutely no answer to CdG - none for KW, and Nicholls will think he squandered a century to go begging there.

With the World Test Championship starting this year, you will get teams like Bangladesh visit more often in future as you will want the points to make the final. If Bangladesh could just sort out their seam bowling stocks, they'd actually be a useful team. They have some scoring talent, Tamim is fine, Mahmudullah reguarly scores big now and Shakib is a legend of course. Mushfiqur is very talented as well, but Mominul seems to only dominate on slower pitches so far. He averages 57 at home on some total dustbowls, and 27 away...

But yeah - they definitely have more batting talent than they used to... But I don't see them winning in tests in Australia - unless someone leaves a lot of grass on Hobart pitch and the match becomes a knock out contest.

The quota problem is another burden for SA as they are losing a lot of their talented youth to NZ, Aus and Eng. The NZ first class scene is full of talented Saffir players. As has the England system been previously. This is for more guaranteed opportunities, but a lot of people simply wish to leave Safrica as well. 

So you do agree with me after all.  Who are Saffers forced out by the quota system that now play in NZ.. Is Wagner one? What about OZ. I know of no recent  Saffer rejects that have made here their home. Only two that come to mind Neser and Labuchagne came as young teens.

No I don't agree. There's three types of intl cricketer not playing cricket in SA.

1 is the child migrant - who move cos their parents move for political and economic reasons. Labuchange you idenitfy. For NZ there is Watling and Munro. They have no stand down. They're free to play when ready.

2 Are the Quota players. For NZ this is Wagner. It included Grant Elliott as well. But we have so many more in the system. Devon Conway leads this list:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica/content/player/379140.html

This kid looks really promising...
http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica/content/player/596099.html


They typically move between 19 and early to mid 20's and do the 4 year stand down. Conway is seriously talented, and in red hot form but he has 1.5 years left to go.

3 Are the established stars, who leave for financial secuity. AbDV, MMorkel, Abbott, Olivier - these guys have made it to the top despite quotas, but leave for money in richer domestic cricket elsewhere.

NZC is packed with South African born who are either on timers, no longer on timers, or migrated here. They have lifted the standards of NZ domestic cricket a lot. They're moving here from U-19's now. Just like Archer will did to Eng from WI. They make a name for themselves at U-19 - and then look to move here or England. England gets first pick typically, but somehow they slip Conway slip through their fingers...

So the question is why and why is the player leaving. Coming to NZ is about leaving the  quotas behind and looking for opportunity. Leaving the Proteas national team is about money. Those guys are going to County and T20 leagues, not NZC!

NZ has lost M McC (he wants back in) Flemming, DV and BMac early to franchise cricket. And we lost many years of Bond due to ICL... WI - well their struggles with the leagues is well known. But CSA has the same problem developing too... SL lost a lot of Malinga... But he's back as the rich leagues dont want him anymore. They lost a bit of Jayawardene too.

Ind, Eng and Aus have lost noone. If we're realistic - had Wagner stayed in SA, he would never have played tests with Steyn, Rabada, Ngidi, Philander, Abbott, MMorkel, Olivier all being better bowlers than him. He would never have gotten past the domestic scene. So I don't think quotas were even that of a factor for him. Grant Elliott, as useful as he was as a batting allrounder, again with Kallis around, Duminy too, he was not going to play for SAfrica. So quotas were less of a thing than opportunity for him also. But these young kids comming to NZ from U-19 - they're literally just avoiding the quotas and getting out as well as the wider politics of SAfrica. They see it as being unfair, and just want to move country.

They love moving to NZ, they fit in well.

Zimbabweans earn the least, so one could say CdG moved to NZ for money. And with his IPL and Nat deals, he's earning more than he ever would have playing for Zimbabwe, but nothing like he would playing for Aus. But you guys would never likely pick him.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/newzealand/content/player/55395.html

Ironically - his test stats are pretty damn good now.


For me quota migration is less of an issue because they're not lost entirely to intl cricket, just for 4 years -where really only the last year or two are they ready perhaps for intl selection. But the guys who quit for county like MMorkel, Abbott or t20 like AbDV - they're lost to intl cricket at their peaks! I loved watching Morkel bowl in intls, and obviously love AbDV batting - we all do. But I think we want to see it in an intl match once in a while, and not only just some League.

It is what it is. SA need AbDV - there's no replacing a guy that good. An ATG - any format. Every format. ATG.

This is based on my understanding of the rankings which is, the year is reset in 1 May, before the start of the English test year - which is when the cricket year starts. At that time, only the last 2 years results are included. The day before the roll over, there is 3 years worth of cricket being ranked, but on the rollover day - just 2 years. Now this could be wrong, but that's how it used to work.
Okay - so we know Eng and SA keep losing where they shouldn't. And Aus did it tough in UAE and vs Pak.
But...if NZ beats Bangladesh 3-0 - India has a real problem when the rankings year turns over on 1 May...

Right now - this is what is being scored for NZ - but I will strike through what gets chopped out when the ranking year rolls over...
[s]New Zealand in Zimbabwe Test Series 2016 New Zealand 2-0 (2)
New Zealand in South Africa Test Series 2016 South Africa 1-0 (2)
New Zealand in India Test Series 2016/17 India 3-0 (3)
Pakistan in New Zealand Test Series 2016/17 New Zealand 2-0 (2)
Bangladesh in New Zealand Test Series 2016/17 New Zealand 2-0 (2)
South Africa in New Zealand Test Series 2016/17 South Africa 1-0 (3)[/s]
West Indies in New Zealand Test Series 2017/18 New Zealand 2-0 (2)
England in New Zealand Test Series 2017/18 New Zealand 1-0 (2)
Pakistan v New Zealand Test Series (in United Arab Emirates) 2018/19 New Zealand 2-1 (3)
Sri Lanka in New Zealand Test Series 2018/19 New Zealand 1-0 (2)
Bangladesh in New Zealand Test Series 2018/19 -

India
[s]India in West Indies Test Series 2016 India 2-0 (4)
New Zealand in India Test Series 2016/17 India 3-0 (3)
England in India Test Series 2016/17 India 4-0 (5)
Bangladesh in India Test Match 2016/17 India 1-0 (1)
Border-Gavaskar Trophy (Australia in India) 2016/17 India 2-1 (4)[/s]
India in Sri Lanka Test Series 2017 India 3-0 (3)
Sri Lanka in India Test Series 2017/18 India 1-0 (3)
Freedom Trophy (India in South Africa) 2017/18 South Africa 2-1 (3)
Afghanistan in India Test Match 2018 India 1-0 (1)
Pataudi Trophy (India in England) 2018 England 4-1 (5)
West Indies in India Test Series 2018/19 India 2-0 (2)
Border-Gavaskar Trophy (India in Australia) 2018/19 India 2-1

Just look at all the points India loses, 13 test wins gone for only 1 loss. That's a lot of points to drop... That's almost a perfect record over so many tests.
7 losses for India, and 11 wins...
NZ lose 6 wins - but we get rid of 5 losses of which 3 were to India :P That series alone flips the gap between first and second.
NZ will be 9-1 with 2 draws assuming we Beat Bang 3-0 at home.
India will be 11-7 with 1 draw.
What odds the ICC change the rankings system this year to keep BCCI #1?
They'd have to change the rules because India will drop in a big tank.

Okay - apparently what I strike through goes to half points. But NZ drops 2 series losses to Australia out.

I still see NZC going to #1 if beating the Banga's 3-0....

Okay - apparently what I strike through goes to half points. But NZ drops 2 series losses to Australia out I would think...

I still see NZC going to #1 in May if beating the Banga's 3-0....

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci-icc/c...ry/874363.html

So according to this, in May 2019 - results from May 2017 till then count in full, and what I crossed out above get half weighted from May 16... India still has points, but they're halved for that crossed out part. This is what is removed entirely...

India in Bangladesh Test Match 2015 drawn 0-0 (1)
India in Sri Lanka Test Series 2015 India 2-1 (3)
Freedom Trophy (South Africa in India) 2015/16 India 3-0 (4)

and

New Zealand in England Test Series 2015 drawn 1-1 (2)
Trans-Tasman Trophy [New Zealand in Australia] 2015/16 Australia 2-0 (3)
Sri Lanka in New Zealand Test Series 2015/16 New Zealand 2-0 (2)
Trans-Tasman Trophy [Australia in New Zealand] 2015/16 Australia 2-0 (2)

NZ gets rid of its two series losses to Australia from 2015/16 altogether.... This still favours NZ...

I still think this could be happening... If someone actually does that math or spreadsheets it, I would be very interested in the outcome.

Yeah they definitely need to find some pace bowlers.

I still see NZC going to #1 in May if beating the Banga's 3-0....

If they do they have done it the easy way by playing all games at home..against mostly inferior opposition. When do they actually play away? With respect Paddles but betting they will not be #1 or #2 after playing India, SAfrica, England away.

The quota problem is another burden for SA as they are losing a lot of their talented youth to NZ, Aus and Eng.

Make up your mind. On the one hand you say above. Then you say you dont agree with me that the quota system is hurting Saffer cricket. That talented youth of which you speak include Conway and Foxcroft.? I am betting it did. Their parents probably told them if you want an international career look elsewhere as this quota system is clearly disadvantaging white Sth Africans. The poor remuneration is also having an affect if many are abandoning SAfrica for the more lucrative domestic competitions abroad. All I can say is a future for the white cricketer in Safrica is very doubtful in 10/15 years time..

I never changed my mind. Read it more carefully. You want to blame quotas for Olivier and MMorkel. I strongly disagree. Nothing to do with quotas.AbDV, Olivier and MMorkel got to the top and played despite quotas. They left for money.

Quota leavers (if that really is why - I suspect more just to get opportunity to play intl cricket) like Wagner would need a white quota to get in front of Rabada, Ngidi and Philander. Lets not ignore the fact SA are actually producing the best bowlers going around in the world of test cricket right now - black or white. Wagner would never play for SA, he's just not good enough. 1 Abbott, 2 MMorkel, 3 Steyn 4 Olivier 5 Rabda 6 Ngidi 7 Philander are all clearly better than him, Nortje probably is too.

There are two times I question the Safrican quotas and feel very sorry for SA fans, whenever Behardien and Bavuma play. This could get hairy when Amla retires. Phelukwayo is actually developing into a useful cricketer but it's taken long enough.

Fair point. But I really don't see England beating NZ at all... Boult outswings Anderson every day of the week. And we have Southee and CdG too. We will annihilate England in England. NZC is nothing like Australia, we know how to play swing, and we know how to swing. Aussies don't. This was made blatantly obvious in 2015 when NZ toured England. And NZ rolled England for 65 last year was it? Boult will crush them. This may explain why England is hiding from hosting NZ at the moment.

Safrica look ripe for the taking right now.

India and Australia away - NZ lose. SL may shake us up too... I'd be pleased to get out of that series with a draw...

But NZ and England are better in Asia than SA or Aus. SA batsmen are fools to spin, and lack good spinning support for Maharj. NZ batsmen are okay at spin, and we can put out a better spin attack than people give credit for.

I know NZL doesn't play away much - but what can we do? If all that is prepared to come to NZ is SA, Eng, Bang, Pak, SL, WI - then  that is all NZ is able to play at home. Aus was last here in 2016 - you're next here in the 4 years after 2023..... If CA fans don't like it, your board can do something about it and make more trips and beat us for the points.

NZ is right very similar to the England team in most regards. We lack pace to win in Aus, we do have spin skill to compete in Asia, but our openers are a bit flaky. Unlike England - we're too dumb to use a Duke's ball at home.

Aus and SA are looking completely lost in swing, and in spin. Pak and Ind have seamers and spin skills. Pak's batting is fragile but showing promise.

In terms of rankings, there's nothing between Eng, SA, Pak, Aus, NZ, SL and soon WI as well. Ind are clearly going the best - but only cos they dominate Asia so and avoid Pak. But Eng hammered India. Australia and South Africa are so bad against spin its laughable. And NZ and Eng bowl too slow for roads. SL and Pak are light on batting, and WI havn't done anything away from home yet at all.

It's all blurring into blanket territory. But India has a seam attack now. Which means they can perform better in NZ and be dangerous.

Ppl seem to forget with the rankings, it's not just who you beat, it's who you lose to too. SA and Aus lost huge points being humilitated regularly in SL and UAE and Eng. NZ hasn't lost there in over 6 years... So why is that? Could it be that when it comes to spin, NZ is better than Aus and SA? I believe so. Could it be - when it swings, NZ is better than Aus, SA and Eng? I believe so.

If all that is prepared to come to NZ is SA, Eng, Bang, Pak, SL, WI - then  that is all NZ is able to play at home. Aus was last here in 2016 - you're next here in the 4 years after 2023.....

I like your honesty. You saying our next tour to your shores is in 2027? If so that is one big joke.  The last was 2017.. correct? So that is a decade. Mate I would prefer to play your blokes than any of the Asian countries and probably SAfrica. We are cuzzies after all.

2016 Aus was last here, no tours scheduled till 2023. The next FTP will be drawn up in 2023 for the period through to 2027...

There's basically a rock, paper scissors going on. There's the SENA Asia divide. Then the road, spin and swing divide. India aint winning in England soon, England aint winning in Aus soon, and Aus aint winning in India soon...

The difference is - who is leaving SL, UAE and Bangladesh with their heads still held high?

See I don't see NZ beating Aus in Aus or NZ anytime soon. I'd see us thrashing your mob in England or Asia, though. :P

Blues reject Nic Maddinson has just posted his third ton in three games. Reckon the Blues hierachy is feeling a touch sick at this moment. Handing this bloke to our perennial enemy.