Squirming How???

The greatest Australian Bowler ever who knows more about cricket then you and I combined, Shane Warne, is backing up everything I have posted. He has questioned Hazlewood and Starc and has gone as far to say that this year

 "The trend of the misfiring frontline bowlers is hurting Australia's chances by allowing oppositions to rack up hugh first innings totals which put their team immediately on the back foot. Hazlewood and Starc have not met national expectations bowling to opposition top orders. Against top six batsmen in 2018 Starc has taken 17 wickets at an average of 47 and Hazlewood 18 wickets at 40. If you loss a toss and the opposition decide to bat and you've got to try and knock them over, our new ball bowlers Starc and Hazlewood averaging 47 and 40 with the new ball is not good enough. When the opposition have made 346, 488,482, 443 there is a lot of scoreboard pressure on the batsmen to come out and make a decent score, I just don't think they are bowling well enough"

Sound familiar to what Paddles was saying Baggers. Sound familiar to what I have been saying Baggers.

 In 10 tests this year the australian test bowlers have given up 10 first innings in excess of 300.....100% of the time

Squirming much with embarrassment, Baggers? Unless you're suggesting you know more than Warne. 

Warne didn't exactly call for them to be dropped just mentioned they have had a form drop

“So I’m not saying drop them all because we have a very good attack, but they need to get better,” he said.

“They need to be put on notice and say guys 47 and 40 with the new ball opening the bowling to the top six batsmen isn’t good enough.

“Yes the batting has got to get a lot better, but the bowlers need to get better too and the numbers don’t lie.”

But he is questioning the bowlers and how they are performing. As I said before changing a batsman here, a batsman there is just band-aiding. 

A batsman with 37.5 FC average is replaced and bring in a batsman with 40 average is adding 5 runs per test.

Not going to help much when the bowlers are not being changed and this pathetic frontline bowling is continuing what it is doing. They may go well in the next test, but they just revert back to their old ways.

Remember Hazlewood on 9 occasions from his last 32 tests has managed 0-1 wickets only, for the test, not an innings. Nearly 30% of the time. So my question to you grazer still stands "When is enough enough"?

I'm saying right now these questions are valid and now is the time to change
Openers gone
Marsh Bros gone
Hazlewood and Starc gone.
It's a tough call granted but they are the reasons we have been so poor over the last year, embarrassingly so. 

To bring Labuchagne in and there is a big chance he is No 4 batsman and M Marsh will remain in the side, even the selectors feel the bowlers need 2 all-rounders now to help them. If this occurs we are down to 4 specialist batsmen for the sake of a poorly performing bowling attack. RIDICULOUS. Change the bowlers and get 6 specialist batsmen.

Then all but four of those attacks that grazor listed must have been misfiring more than our current trio. Surely Warne is not naive enuff to not realise that All cricketers have form fluctuations. Expect he himself had at some stage. The fact is that All of those bowlers listed have more elevated averages than Hazlewood. Betting you did not call for McDermott to be dropped. or even Thomson.. an adopted Qlder. How many other Qlders have played for Australia. There was Rackers. How is his record. Bichel, Kasper others. Not many is there Mike. Is this from where your bias stems? Josh has a similar s/r to MCD as well. Betting by his career end it will be greater than both Mac and Thommo. and the others I mentioned. 

The Aus attack "world class" thing is a total and utter total myth for this year. Its nothing more than a marketing ploy sold by Aus media to sell cricket in Australia after the Smith and Warner bans. Noone else in the world is really buying into it.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2015/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling_by_team.html?class=1;id=2018;type=year

Cummins is going great guns, but see just how unfavorably Aus compares to South Africa, Pakistan, England, India, even New Zealand, SL, WI... even Bangladesh... That has Aus at 9th... And Ireland only played 1 game so I excluded them else Aus would be looking at 10th head on.

Sure - different matches... but cross reference-able to SA, India and Pakistan....

Haze, Starc and Lyon are all averaging over 33 for the year. That's not remotely close to world class for this year...

The Aus selectors need to find some quick boys who find some lateral movement... or the Ashes is already gone... Anderson, Woakes, Broad, and TRJ will cause havoc with the Dukes... while Starc looks good on a  speed gun...

And now the Aus media is blowing smoke about the Indian attack - Safrica is a mile in front, Pakistan the leading chaser.... then there's a pack including India chasing... India's nowhere near the front...

I have now accepted that Hazlewood needs to improve his strike rate. Whadda want from me. I still maintain he is the best technician at his speciality in the country. His lack of wickets are not from lack of effort or skill. Starc is the real weak link in our attack.

Name another time in the history of these bowling attacks that Grazor has mentioned, when they ever had 8 games with the stats Warne has mentioned at the same time. Never happened.
You don't have McDermott's record of 124 innings for 291 wickets av 2.34 wickets per innings 4.68 per match (75% wickets top or middle order) That's better than McGrath 243 innings for 563 wickets 2.31 wickets per innings (Only just but still better) and same for McGrath (75% wickets top or middle order) So how is "Glow worm"  going? You do the math Baggers.
Rackemann 12 tests 20 innings dropped. Not Starc 48 matches 92 innings, Hazlewood 43 tests 81 innings
And Bichel when did he ever open the bowling? when did he play 8 games straight for that matter? Dropped
Michael Kasprowicz when did he open the bowling? Probably when McGrath or Lee were out. Dropped

The only way Glow worm will ever be greater is by the selectors putting up with his pathetic performance and him playing an enormous number of tests. Sort of like comparing Anderson to McGrath. According to you Anderson is the better bowler because he took more wickets, a lot more games but who is counting.
eg
Hazlewood 43 matches 81 innings 162 wickets 
Geoff Lawson 46 matches 78 innings 180 wickets
Hazlewood doesn't even stand up to Lawson. Good luck to Glow worm getting 129 wickets in 43 innings that's 3 wickets per innings (better than Lillee ever did) to match McDermott. 

But don't worry Baggers Glow Worm's not going anywhere he's a NSW player and we all know they don't have to perform and definitely get more opportunities than others

Baggers, we.ve known each other for 4-5 years, When Hazlewood came into the side he was No 3 to Johnson and Harris. He did extremely well. Over the last 3 years that is when I started to notice this trend starting. On forums people like yourself laughed it off and used the same argument you are trying to use now about QLD etc. On this site people are reading and thinking and seeing it, even Warne has commented. Why? because it is a lot worse, worse than even I ever thought possible. And it has been for the last 3 years. Paddles can back me up, we've know each other for 2-3 years.

With Starc he started off really poor in and out of the side etc. Once Johnson and Harris gave it away, Starc stood up and fired thus why he has this really good record as he approaches 200 wickets. The turn in poor form has just occurred. Yes it is bad but not as bad as Josh. Remember Starc took his 150 test wicket in his 38th test, he is nearly 200 wickets in 48 tests so the last 10 tests he has nearly taken 50 wickets, so whilst he looks bad, it isn't as bad as you may think and it definitely hasn't been for as long.

You may be right that he's the best at what he does, but it is not effective, nor was it at sheffield shield level prior to his selection, as I showed in a previous post. And unlike England and Anderson, Australia actually does produce quality pace bowlers, it not like we don't have options, they have to be given an opportunity and that opportunity is now.

Paddles it really stands out when you look at everyone together.
There are so many really good attacks currently and most sides have 6 or 7 bowlers with averages under 30. It is embarrassing. With a state bowling attack and let's call it what it is, is it an arrogance by Australia that we only have to put up a state side to take on the world? Paddles the media is NSW base so they will blow smoke everywhere to hide NSW failings. They always do.

The fault lies with promoting Cricket in Australia instead of cricket as a global sport. It leads to the Aus fans being introverted and only looking at Australian players, and how visiting players do in Australia. There's a whole world of cricket...

Its like the Aus media saying how great the Indian batting is, when they've dropped 3 openers this year in Rahul, Vijay and Dhawan... Rohit is hardly a lock averaging less than 30, and Rahane, well...

Pujara is back to his best but still only averaged 38 for the year... Rahane has averaged 30 for the year and let's face it - he is facing the axe... This is a weak Indian batting line up... propped up entirely by Kohli and Pujara, and with hopes for Shaw to show genius. Pant is a horrid wicket keeper - he is there for his runs only...

This is an Indian team that lost away in England and Safrica with a weak batting line up held together by Kohli's brilliance...

World cricket is finely balanced between teams at the moment... this is what the media should be reporting... not blowing smoke nor being introverted...

Quality post, Paddles.

I think drop one for this Test and put Meredith in instead.

He is fresher and has played 6 FC games this season, so he is match fit.

Starc and Hazlewood are  fatigued and jaded from bowling a lot of overs in the hot sun in this series  

The one thing that really impresses me about Starc, is how fast he bowls for long periods. He maintains his pace well and it doesn't  take much out of  him, with an action that is economical for an express bowler.

He bowls too many bad balls though.

Can someone else start a 4th Test thread for the Sydney Test?

If there isn't one tomorrow, I'll start one.

Cheers.

is it an arrogance by Australia that we only have to put up a state side to take on the world? Paddles the media is NSW base so they will blow smoke everywhere to hide NSW failings. They always do. You are doing a bang up job trying to swing Paddles around to your almost pathological anti NSW views Mike. That is such a load of twaddle. and frankly insulting to Australian cricket. You are not pro Oz cricket you are anti NSW cricket. End of story. Where is your patriotism?

No not world class this year. I accept that. Has been a traumatic year for Oz cricket. Any wonder there has been a drop in form by our "former world class attack". Quality pace bowlers do not grow on trees. Bowlers the calibre of Cummins and Hazlewood are rare.. and when Starc is swinging the ball at pace.. few better than him too. What makes any of us think Tremain, Pattinson or Richardson will do a better job than our current attack  if CA deems a spell in Shield cricket is what Haze and Starc need. Frankly I think we have already seen the best Starc can produce. Is downhill for him from here. Not so, I believe, with Hazlewood. He is only four years into his career. Tho his 162 wkts @26.6 from 43 matches is not earth shattering.. it is very acceptable. Double that from the same amount of matches and he has 324. By adding just one more wicket per Test he is looking at 430 after 86 Tests. I expect he will be disappointed if he does not achieve that. If he does not then perhaps he should call it quits. I have him playing a minimum 100 Tests.

any player with an average around hazelwood and starc will have dry runs. Thats just normal. Form goes up and down. Having an average of 26 doesn't mean you are under 30 every year

Please Baggers, Haze played 8 tests this year - Starc 9, the incident happened in the 4th after the Safrican bowlers were so outbowling them in the series - Warner et al resorted to tactics... 

What's the weakened batting line up goto with a loss of bowling form? 4 of the tests have been against India who have the worst batting tail, dropped 3 openers, and have Rohit averaging mid 20's and Rahane barely 30 for the year... 

Only Starc played in the UAE - one test at that... and Abbas made the ball talk there...

As for Aus domestic cricket - I'm not remotely qualified to comment on. That's your area of expertise.

I am saying there is a skill problem if Aus want to play on off road pitches... 

You don't race a F1 car on grass...

Mitchell Johnson, Geoff Dymock and Scott Muller are Queenslanders although Johnson ended up in WA.

Having an average of 21 does not mean you are under 30 every year either, Glenn McGrath averaged one 30 in 3 years I think from memory. 
Perhaps the greatest ever fast bowler, Malcolm Marshall, had some bad years as well.

Seamers like Josh have to manufacture ways of taking wickets on unfavorable decks like the MCG. He has not as yet mastered that. He is improving. Then there are the flat slow decks in Asia. He has so far struggled there.  What is the secret for a man who relies on accuracy to break a batman's resistance, hamper his scoring to take wickets on tracks that do not suit his speciality. Why is he being asked to bowl cross seamers as his stock ball as Paddles has pointed out. I was not aware that was the case. Few stand up the seam better than Josh...or used to.  This could be part of why his wicket strike rate has dropped. What is our bowling coach doing to help a man seemingly, according to you, is in free fall.. btw For those calling for Josh's head for Sydney, he took 6-83 @13.4 in his last game at the SCG.  Please dont compare Starc to H/Wood. Trawl thru the leftie's archives and you will discover a good whack of those wickets are from mopping up the tail. Few do it better. Also it took Starc twice as long as it took Josh to reach 150 wickets...albeit in fewer tests.