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grazorblade
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so what has changed uniquely in australia that our batting has fallen so much?
I heard we have a few less 1st class matches per year
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grazorblade
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+x+x+x+x+x+xAs for whether NSW scores are inflated here are the ground averages per wicket over the past season NSW 30.1 Tas 25.9 WA 32.1 QLD 47.75 SA 34.8 Vic 30.26 If NSW runs are inflated due to flat pitches its not showing up in the stats..... Last year Patterson away from home scored 14, 0, 12, 16, 22, 17, 24, 16, 43 and 53 (217 av 21.7), but overall he scored 672 runs at 37. That is a big discrepancy and only 1 test a year is played in Sydney, where Patterson scored 455 runs @ 56.8 So yes I see an inflated average. But this year Patterson is scoring away from home with the century in Perth being his best to date, so though I don't think Patterson is ready just yet, he has definitely improved and maybe next year if this form continues he is worthy of being potentially selected. Lets have an honest look at Patterson say against SA away from home last 3 years 0, 7, 14, 0, 17, 12 (total 50 runs @8.3) Outstanding I'll be generous and look at WA since he just scored a century there. 24, 16, 8, 39, (av was 21) then scored 107, 43 lifting his av to 40 so yes that is moving in the right direction But in all honesty he has played OK against the Vics scoring 61, 43, 53, 63 and 53 a lot of good starts but where are the 100's I do remember at the Gabba a few years ago he did score a 111, the reason I remember that game is Joe Burns MURDERED Starc and Hazlewood scoring 160 for the game. But maybe you're right this discrepancy doesn't affect all players in NSW, Let's have a look at this year Hughes Home av 71 Away 18 Larkin Home av 62.5 Away 30 Henriques Home av 55.4 Away 22.5 Sangha Home av 53 Away 9 Edwards Home av 35 Away 21 Nevill Home av 32 Away 18 Does anyone else see a discrepancy between home and away, because my "bias" may be clouding my judgement? Post all state players Mike. Instead of targeting only those from the state you clearly detest. Then we will get the full story. I would a have notioned that home ground advantage was just that.. so home scores would be superior to away. I may be wrong. So prove me wrong mr stats man. I can't be bothered doing all states but I'll do Qld which is representative of the other 5 states, you'll just have to take my word on that Burns Home 44 Away 41 Renshaw Home 32 Away 12 (He is horribly out of form) Hemphrey Home 30 Away 24 Heazlett Home 9 Away 32 Labuschagne Home 27 Away 31 Wildermuth Home 15 Away 26 Peirson Home 33 Away 27.5 See the averages Home against away are a lot closer and in some cases they're better away from home than at home. Which is exactly what you expect it looks like a weird reason to exclude him based on low statistics that was only true a season ago. Nothing wrong with the scg or runs scored there. If we had 30 players averaging 40+ then we can nitpick like that but for mine he's earned his placed p.s. go rain :D Radar still showing plenty of rain heading for Melbourne this arvo. perhaps a little late though in this source https://weather.com/weather/hourbyhour/l/15746:25:ASdo you have another source with better news? Also there is a pollen warning. Can you pause a test for pollen? Some one could be allergic you know....
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BaggyGreens
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+x+x+x+x+xAs for whether NSW scores are inflated here are the ground averages per wicket over the past season NSW 30.1 Tas 25.9 WA 32.1 QLD 47.75 SA 34.8 Vic 30.26 If NSW runs are inflated due to flat pitches its not showing up in the stats..... Last year Patterson away from home scored 14, 0, 12, 16, 22, 17, 24, 16, 43 and 53 (217 av 21.7), but overall he scored 672 runs at 37. That is a big discrepancy and only 1 test a year is played in Sydney, where Patterson scored 455 runs @ 56.8 So yes I see an inflated average. But this year Patterson is scoring away from home with the century in Perth being his best to date, so though I don't think Patterson is ready just yet, he has definitely improved and maybe next year if this form continues he is worthy of being potentially selected. Lets have an honest look at Patterson say against SA away from home last 3 years 0, 7, 14, 0, 17, 12 (total 50 runs @8.3) Outstanding I'll be generous and look at WA since he just scored a century there. 24, 16, 8, 39, (av was 21) then scored 107, 43 lifting his av to 40 so yes that is moving in the right direction But in all honesty he has played OK against the Vics scoring 61, 43, 53, 63 and 53 a lot of good starts but where are the 100's I do remember at the Gabba a few years ago he did score a 111, the reason I remember that game is Joe Burns MURDERED Starc and Hazlewood scoring 160 for the game. But maybe you're right this discrepancy doesn't affect all players in NSW, Let's have a look at this year Hughes Home av 71 Away 18 Larkin Home av 62.5 Away 30 Henriques Home av 55.4 Away 22.5 Sangha Home av 53 Away 9 Edwards Home av 35 Away 21 Nevill Home av 32 Away 18 Does anyone else see a discrepancy between home and away, because my "bias" may be clouding my judgement? Post all state players Mike. Instead of targeting only those from the state you clearly detest. Then we will get the full story. I would a have notioned that home ground advantage was just that.. so home scores would be superior to away. I may be wrong. So prove me wrong mr stats man. I can't be bothered doing all states but I'll do Qld which is representative of the other 5 states, you'll just have to take my word on that Burns Home 44 Away 41 Renshaw Home 32 Away 12 (He is horribly out of form) Hemphrey Home 30 Away 24 Heazlett Home 9 Away 32 Labuschagne Home 27 Away 31 Wildermuth Home 15 Away 26 Peirson Home 33 Away 27.5 See the averages Home against away are a lot closer and in some cases they're better away from home than at home. Which is exactly what you expect it looks like a weird reason to exclude him based on low statistics that was only true a season ago. Nothing wrong with the scg or runs scored there. If we had 30 players averaging 40+ then we can nitpick like that but for mine he's earned his placed p.s. go rain :D Radar still showing plenty of rain heading for Melbourne this arvo.
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grazorblade
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+xAs for whether NSW scores are inflated here are the ground averages per wicket over the past season NSW 30.1 Tas 25.9 WA 32.1 QLD 47.75 SA 34.8 Vic 30.26 If NSW runs are inflated due to flat pitches its not showing up in the stats..... Last year Patterson away from home scored 14, 0, 12, 16, 22, 17, 24, 16, 43 and 53 (217 av 21.7), but overall he scored 672 runs at 37. That is a big discrepancy and only 1 test a year is played in Sydney, where Patterson scored 455 runs @ 56.8 So yes I see an inflated average. But this year Patterson is scoring away from home with the century in Perth being his best to date, so though I don't think Patterson is ready just yet, he has definitely improved and maybe next year if this form continues he is worthy of being potentially selected. Lets have an honest look at Patterson say against SA away from home last 3 years 0, 7, 14, 0, 17, 12 (total 50 runs @8.3) Outstanding I'll be generous and look at WA since he just scored a century there. 24, 16, 8, 39, (av was 21) then scored 107, 43 lifting his av to 40 so yes that is moving in the right direction But in all honesty he has played OK against the Vics scoring 61, 43, 53, 63 and 53 a lot of good starts but where are the 100's I do remember at the Gabba a few years ago he did score a 111, the reason I remember that game is Joe Burns MURDERED Starc and Hazlewood scoring 160 for the game. But maybe you're right this discrepancy doesn't affect all players in NSW, Let's have a look at this year Hughes Home av 71 Away 18 Larkin Home av 62.5 Away 30 Henriques Home av 55.4 Away 22.5 Sangha Home av 53 Away 9 Edwards Home av 35 Away 21 Nevill Home av 32 Away 18 Does anyone else see a discrepancy between home and away, because my "bias" may be clouding my judgement? Post all state players Mike. Instead of targeting only those from the state you clearly detest. Then we will get the full story. I would a have notioned that home ground advantage was just that.. so home scores would be superior to away. I may be wrong. So prove me wrong mr stats man. I can't be bothered doing all states but I'll do Qld which is representative of the other 5 states, you'll just have to take my word on that Burns Home 44 Away 41 Renshaw Home 32 Away 12 (He is horribly out of form) Hemphrey Home 30 Away 24 Heazlett Home 9 Away 32 Labuschagne Home 27 Away 31 Wildermuth Home 15 Away 26 Peirson Home 33 Away 27.5 See the averages Home against away are a lot closer and in some cases they're better away from home than at home. Which is exactly what you expect it looks like a weird reason to exclude him based on low statistics that was only true a season ago. Nothing wrong with the scg or runs scored there. If we had 30 players averaging 40+ then we can nitpick like that but for mine he's earned his placed p.s. go rain :D Just saying is it fair to exclude a player that averages 37.5 but may play for another state who don't play half their games in NSW. But hey if you're looking for 50 averages put the entire batting order of NSW in the side, just don't play a test anywhere else. Moises has a 34 average but he is averaging 55 in NSW, put him in with his 23 average at test level. IMO Patterson could do with another year, I do like his consistency but only 6 FC centuries in 58 games. But he needs to develop his game away from NSW. Not disagreeing with his selection but I like him at 6, so who is a good No 4 if S Marsh goes, and potentially can move to No 5/6 when Smith comes back. 6 centuries and 26 50s from 103 innings is bang on average for an average player averaging 41 Maxwell with a near identical average has 7 centuries and 21 50s from 104 innings We can't exactly afford to wait and watch these dibbly dobblers crash and burn while we have a bunch average batsmen who could at least make us competitive We should also beg lynn to come back since he has the 3rd highest 1st class average in Australia
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MikeR
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+x+x+x+x+xAs for whether NSW scores are inflated here are the ground averages per wicket over the past season NSW 30.1 Tas 25.9 WA 32.1 QLD 47.75 SA 34.8 Vic 30.26 If NSW runs are inflated due to flat pitches its not showing up in the stats..... Last year Patterson away from home scored 14, 0, 12, 16, 22, 17, 24, 16, 43 and 53 (217 av 21.7), but overall he scored 672 runs at 37. That is a big discrepancy and only 1 test a year is played in Sydney, where Patterson scored 455 runs @ 56.8 So yes I see an inflated average. But this year Patterson is scoring away from home with the century in Perth being his best to date, so though I don't think Patterson is ready just yet, he has definitely improved and maybe next year if this form continues he is worthy of being potentially selected. Lets have an honest look at Patterson say against SA away from home last 3 years 0, 7, 14, 0, 17, 12 (total 50 runs @8.3) Outstanding I'll be generous and look at WA since he just scored a century there. 24, 16, 8, 39, (av was 21) then scored 107, 43 lifting his av to 40 so yes that is moving in the right direction But in all honesty he has played OK against the Vics scoring 61, 43, 53, 63 and 53 a lot of good starts but where are the 100's I do remember at the Gabba a few years ago he did score a 111, the reason I remember that game is Joe Burns MURDERED Starc and Hazlewood scoring 160 for the game. But maybe you're right this discrepancy doesn't affect all players in NSW, Let's have a look at this year Hughes Home av 71 Away 18 Larkin Home av 62.5 Away 30 Henriques Home av 55.4 Away 22.5 Sangha Home av 53 Away 9 Edwards Home av 35 Away 21 Nevill Home av 32 Away 18 Does anyone else see a discrepancy between home and away, because my "bias" may be clouding my judgement? Post all state players Mike. Instead of targeting only those from the state you clearly detest. Then we will get the full story. I would a have notioned that home ground advantage was just that.. so home scores would be superior to away. I may be wrong. So prove me wrong mr stats man. I can't be bothered doing all states but I'll do Qld which is representative of the other 5 states, you'll just have to take my word on that Burns Home 44 Away 41 Renshaw Home 32 Away 12 (He is horribly out of form) Hemphrey Home 30 Away 24 Heazlett Home 9 Away 32 Labuschagne Home 27 Away 31 Wildermuth Home 15 Away 26 Peirson Home 33 Away 27.5 See the averages Home against away are a lot closer and in some cases they're better away from home than at home. Which is exactly what you expect it looks like a weird reason to exclude him based on low statistics that was only true a season ago. Nothing wrong with the scg or runs scored there. If we had 30 players averaging 40+ then we can nitpick like that but for mine he's earned his placed p.s. go rain :D Just saying is it fair to exclude a player that averages 37.5 but may play for another state who don't play half their games in NSW. But hey if you're looking for 50 averages put the entire batting order of NSW in the side, just don't play a test anywhere else. Moises has a 34 average but he is averaging 55 in NSW, put him in with his 23 average at test level. IMO Patterson could do with another year, I do like his consistency but only 6 FC centuries in 58 games. But he needs to develop his game away from NSW. Not disagreeing with his selection but I like him at 6, so who is a good No 4 if S Marsh goes, and potentially can move to No 5/6 when Smith comes back.
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MikeR
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+x+x+xMy next question is, why is Langer not sorting this out. All I hear bandied around by the commentators, is that he stands by his team & has their backs - great, but what if your team is not performing. Look at our selections for 12 & 13, WI would always have 2 good fielders and on hot days in Perth rotate their players into the rooms for a rest. Caused a bit of controversy in it's day but what smart management. Who did we bring on Siddle!! Langer seems to be slipping under the radar & I think more questions need t be asked about him. some fight has been put into a very average team by him perhaps but he should be well away from selection. Perhaps some tactical changes like you suggest could help too some fight has been put into a very average team by him perhaps but he should be well away from selection. Perhaps some tactical changes like you suggest could help too. Agree. I am also against the coach being a selector. Where do you stand on the captain being an official selector like Michael Clarke was? 2012/13 Selectors were John Inverarity (c), Ryan Terry (Director) Michael Clarke, Mickey Arthur, Rod Marsh, Andy Bichel You remember that period Baggers when we toured India and England, "Homeworkgate", Clarke and Arthur the "on tour" selectors, the touring team all NSW players, Cowan Warner, Hughes, Watson, Smith, Clarke, Haddin, Henriques, Lyon, Khawaja. Sheffield shield 2012/13 NSW also has Starc, Hazelwood, Bollinger, Copeland O'Keefe, Nevill, Maddinson. WoW what a side they had must have won the shield that year............No they didn't Tasmania and Qld played the final, with Tasmania winning, Ricky's last game wasn't it. The memories. What was the result for Australia that year when Clarke was captain/selector? India won 4-0 and England won 3-0 wasn't it? Poor Michael Clarke had to step down from his selectors role all his power taken away, and Mickey Arthur got the chop. I think that is the true legacy Clarke left Australian cricket, Never allow the captain to choose the side.
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grazorblade
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+x+x+x+xAs for whether NSW scores are inflated here are the ground averages per wicket over the past season NSW 30.1 Tas 25.9 WA 32.1 QLD 47.75 SA 34.8 Vic 30.26 If NSW runs are inflated due to flat pitches its not showing up in the stats..... Last year Patterson away from home scored 14, 0, 12, 16, 22, 17, 24, 16, 43 and 53 (217 av 21.7), but overall he scored 672 runs at 37. That is a big discrepancy and only 1 test a year is played in Sydney, where Patterson scored 455 runs @ 56.8 So yes I see an inflated average. But this year Patterson is scoring away from home with the century in Perth being his best to date, so though I don't think Patterson is ready just yet, he has definitely improved and maybe next year if this form continues he is worthy of being potentially selected. Lets have an honest look at Patterson say against SA away from home last 3 years 0, 7, 14, 0, 17, 12 (total 50 runs @8.3) Outstanding I'll be generous and look at WA since he just scored a century there. 24, 16, 8, 39, (av was 21) then scored 107, 43 lifting his av to 40 so yes that is moving in the right direction But in all honesty he has played OK against the Vics scoring 61, 43, 53, 63 and 53 a lot of good starts but where are the 100's I do remember at the Gabba a few years ago he did score a 111, the reason I remember that game is Joe Burns MURDERED Starc and Hazlewood scoring 160 for the game. But maybe you're right this discrepancy doesn't affect all players in NSW, Let's have a look at this year Hughes Home av 71 Away 18 Larkin Home av 62.5 Away 30 Henriques Home av 55.4 Away 22.5 Sangha Home av 53 Away 9 Edwards Home av 35 Away 21 Nevill Home av 32 Away 18 Does anyone else see a discrepancy between home and away, because my "bias" may be clouding my judgement? Post all state players Mike. Instead of targeting only those from the state you clearly detest. Then we will get the full story. I would a have notioned that home ground advantage was just that.. so home scores would be superior to away. I may be wrong. So prove me wrong mr stats man. I can't be bothered doing all states but I'll do Qld which is representative of the other 5 states, you'll just have to take my word on that Burns Home 44 Away 41 Renshaw Home 32 Away 12 (He is horribly out of form) Hemphrey Home 30 Away 24 Heazlett Home 9 Away 32 Labuschagne Home 27 Away 31 Wildermuth Home 15 Away 26 Peirson Home 33 Away 27.5 See the averages Home against away are a lot closer and in some cases they're better away from home than at home. Which is exactly what you expect it looks like a weird reason to exclude him based on low statistics that was only true a season ago. Nothing wrong with the scg or runs scored there. If we had 30 players averaging 40+ then we can nitpick like that but for mine he's earned his placed p.s. go rain :D
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BaggyGreens
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+x+x+x+x+x+xMy next question is, why is Langer not sorting this out. All I hear bandied around by the commentators, is that he stands by his team & has their backs - great, but what if your team is not performing. Look at our selections for 12 & 13, WI would always have 2 good fielders and on hot days in Perth rotate their players into the rooms for a rest. Caused a bit of controversy in it's day but what smart management. Who did we bring on Siddle!! Langer seems to be slipping under the radar & I think more questions need t be asked about him. some fight has been put into a very average team by him perhaps but he should be well away from selection. Perhaps some tactical changes like you suggest could help too some fight has been put into a very average team by him perhaps but he should be well away from selection. Perhaps some tactical changes like you suggest could help too. Agree. I am also against the coach being a selector. In cricket, is our coach to close to the players to make the hard decisions who should be in & out. As far as I am aware in the AFL, the coach coaches the coaches and whilst familiar with the players is a step away from them working on strategies, team selection to suit opposition, conditions etc. Should we have a bigger squad coming into a test series that the team is selected from based on performance & such. I guess what I m trying to say, is do we look at the way we coach to improve same.. News on the Australian contracts. Pat Cummins is calling for multi-year contracts, especially for the bowlers (who just happen to be his fellow NSW players) Think about that, out injured for a year or two, CA have to pay them out, meanwhile another misses out, unless CA is prepared to part with additional funds. Or worse still bowlers out of form will continued to be selected because CA has a multi-year contract. Talk about lining your pockets. I don't mind Cummins suggesting it, based on his importance to the team, but taking his fellow bowlers with him. Remember when Cummins was out injured he still had his yearly contract with CA renewed I believe every year. More NSW bias Mike. That is not what the Tele is reporting. The first session looks like being rained out. Has been some heavy stuff.. takes longer to dry the runups and outfield.
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BaggyGreens
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+x+x+x+x+xMy next question is, why is Langer not sorting this out. All I hear bandied around by the commentators, is that he stands by his team & has their backs - great, but what if your team is not performing. Look at our selections for 12 & 13, WI would always have 2 good fielders and on hot days in Perth rotate their players into the rooms for a rest. Caused a bit of controversy in it's day but what smart management. Who did we bring on Siddle!! Langer seems to be slipping under the radar & I think more questions need t be asked about him. some fight has been put into a very average team by him perhaps but he should be well away from selection. Perhaps some tactical changes like you suggest could help too some fight has been put into a very average team by him perhaps but he should be well away from selection. Perhaps some tactical changes like you suggest could help too. Agree. I am also against the coach being a selector. In cricket, is our coach to close to the players to make the hard decisions who should be in & out. As far as I am aware in the AFL, the coach coaches the coaches and whilst familiar with the players is a step away from them working on strategies, team selection to suit opposition, conditions etc. Should we have a bigger squad coming into a test series that the team is selected from based on performance & such. I guess what I m trying to say, is do we look at the way we coach to improve same.. News on the Australian contracts. Pat Cummins is calling for multi-year contracts, especially for the bowlers (who just happen to be his fellow NSW players) Think about that, out injured for a year or two, CA have to pay them out, meanwhile another misses out, unless CA is prepared to part with additional funds. Or worse still bowlers out of form will continued to be selected because CA has a multi-year contract. Talk about lining your pockets. I don't mind Cummins suggesting it, based on his importance to the team, but taking his fellow bowlers with him. Remember when Cummins was out injured he still had his yearly contract with CA renewed I believe every year. More NSW bias Mike. that is not what the Tele is reporting. What the matter mate. No Qld bowlers putting their hands up to replace our out of formers?
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MikeR
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+x+x+x+xMy next question is, why is Langer not sorting this out. All I hear bandied around by the commentators, is that he stands by his team & has their backs - great, but what if your team is not performing. Look at our selections for 12 & 13, WI would always have 2 good fielders and on hot days in Perth rotate their players into the rooms for a rest. Caused a bit of controversy in it's day but what smart management. Who did we bring on Siddle!! Langer seems to be slipping under the radar & I think more questions need t be asked about him. some fight has been put into a very average team by him perhaps but he should be well away from selection. Perhaps some tactical changes like you suggest could help too some fight has been put into a very average team by him perhaps but he should be well away from selection. Perhaps some tactical changes like you suggest could help too. Agree. I am also against the coach being a selector. In cricket, is our coach to close to the players to make the hard decisions who should be in & out. As far as I am aware in the AFL, the coach coaches the coaches and whilst familiar with the players is a step away from them working on strategies, team selection to suit opposition, conditions etc. Should we have a bigger squad coming into a test series that the team is selected from based on performance & such. I guess what I m trying to say, is do we look at the way we coach to improve same.. News on the Australian contracts. Pat Cummins is calling for multi-year contracts, especially for the bowlers (who just happen to be his fellow NSW players) Think about that, out injured for a year or two, CA have to pay them out, meanwhile another misses out, unless CA is prepared to part with additional funds. Or worse still bowlers out of form will continued to be selected because CA has a multi-year contract. Talk about lining your pockets. I don't mind Cummins suggesting it, based on his importance to the team, but taking his fellow bowlers with him. Remember when Cummins was out injured he still had his yearly contract with CA renewed I believe every year.
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BaggyGreens
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Pat Cummins makes a valid point about the cohesion of our pace bowling unit. They have played together for a decade.. rather Haze and Starc has. They hail from the same state so know each others games. But above all they are close mates. When all is said and done the all important issue is that all three have to be in optimum form. Then they would be a world class trio.. perhaps the best. .They are not at the moment. So will CA break up this cohesive unit.
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jaszyjim
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+x+x+xMy next question is, why is Langer not sorting this out. All I hear bandied around by the commentators, is that he stands by his team & has their backs - great, but what if your team is not performing. Look at our selections for 12 & 13, WI would always have 2 good fielders and on hot days in Perth rotate their players into the rooms for a rest. Caused a bit of controversy in it's day but what smart management. Who did we bring on Siddle!! Langer seems to be slipping under the radar & I think more questions need t be asked about him. some fight has been put into a very average team by him perhaps but he should be well away from selection. Perhaps some tactical changes like you suggest could help too some fight has been put into a very average team by him perhaps but he should be well away from selection. Perhaps some tactical changes like you suggest could help too. Agree. I am also against the coach being a selector. In cricket, is our coach to close to the players to make the hard decisions who should be in & out. As far as I am aware in the AFL, the coach coaches the coaches and whilst familiar with the players is a step away from them working on strategies, team selection to suit opposition, conditions etc. Should we have a bigger squad coming into a test series that the team is selected from based on performance & such. I guess what I m trying to say, is do we look at the way we coach to improve same..
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MikeR
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+x+x+xAs for whether NSW scores are inflated here are the ground averages per wicket over the past season NSW 30.1 Tas 25.9 WA 32.1 QLD 47.75 SA 34.8 Vic 30.26 If NSW runs are inflated due to flat pitches its not showing up in the stats..... Last year Patterson away from home scored 14, 0, 12, 16, 22, 17, 24, 16, 43 and 53 (217 av 21.7), but overall he scored 672 runs at 37. That is a big discrepancy and only 1 test a year is played in Sydney, where Patterson scored 455 runs @ 56.8 So yes I see an inflated average. But this year Patterson is scoring away from home with the century in Perth being his best to date, so though I don't think Patterson is ready just yet, he has definitely improved and maybe next year if this form continues he is worthy of being potentially selected. Lets have an honest look at Patterson say against SA away from home last 3 years 0, 7, 14, 0, 17, 12 (total 50 runs @8.3) Outstanding I'll be generous and look at WA since he just scored a century there. 24, 16, 8, 39, (av was 21) then scored 107, 43 lifting his av to 40 so yes that is moving in the right direction But in all honesty he has played OK against the Vics scoring 61, 43, 53, 63 and 53 a lot of good starts but where are the 100's I do remember at the Gabba a few years ago he did score a 111, the reason I remember that game is Joe Burns MURDERED Starc and Hazlewood scoring 160 for the game. But maybe you're right this discrepancy doesn't affect all players in NSW, Let's have a look at this year Hughes Home av 71 Away 18 Larkin Home av 62.5 Away 30 Henriques Home av 55.4 Away 22.5 Sangha Home av 53 Away 9 Edwards Home av 35 Away 21 Nevill Home av 32 Away 18 Does anyone else see a discrepancy between home and away, because my "bias" may be clouding my judgement? Post all state players Mike. Instead of targeting only those from the state you clearly detest. Then we will get the full story. I would a have notioned that home ground advantage was just that.. so home scores would be superior to away. I may be wrong. So prove me wrong mr stats man. I can't be bothered doing all states but I'll do Qld which is representative of the other 5 states, you'll just have to take my word on that Burns Home 44 Away 41 Renshaw Home 32 Away 12 (He is horribly out of form) Hemphrey Home 30 Away 24 Heazlett Home 9 Away 32 Labuschagne Home 27 Away 31 Wildermuth Home 15 Away 26 Peirson Home 33 Away 27.5 See the averages Home against away are a lot closer and in some cases they're better away from home than at home. Which is exactly what you expect
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BaggyGreens
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Now
18.5°C  Updated at 10:20 EDT Melbourne for Sunday Cloudy. Medium chance of showers, becoming less likely in the early afternoon. The chance of a thunderstorm in the morning and early afternoon. This forecast spells doom I'm afraid. There will be sufficient time for India to wrap up the series and win their first ever Border/Gavaskar Trophy on Aussie soil. Hang your clueless heads CA and our batsmen. Who thinks simply to draw a series if you are the defending champions warrants winning the tournament? The series should be classed as a tie.
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BaggyGreens
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Won't work, think of it this way, this current test could have been Cummins rotation out of the side. No the only answer is if there is an obvious "out of form" player, send them back to shield level to work out their form problems, persistence in hope of a turn around at an international level leads to losses.
I have already agreed with that. If Hazlewood has been dropping his form then a spell in domestic cricket to refind that mojo is what is needed. Not sure he could have bowled much better than he did in this Test to be honest. He could have been rewarded more for that effort. So is he about to turn the corner? Having said that, I for one would welcome a bowler of Hazlewood's calibre to lead the Blues attack.
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BaggyGreens
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+x+xAs for whether NSW scores are inflated here are the ground averages per wicket over the past season NSW 30.1 Tas 25.9 WA 32.1 QLD 47.75 SA 34.8 Vic 30.26 If NSW runs are inflated due to flat pitches its not showing up in the stats..... Last year Patterson away from home scored 14, 0, 12, 16, 22, 17, 24, 16, 43 and 53 (217 av 21.7), but overall he scored 672 runs at 37. That is a big discrepancy and only 1 test a year is played in Sydney, where Patterson scored 455 runs @ 56.8 So yes I see an inflated average. But this year Patterson is scoring away from home with the century in Perth being his best to date, so though I don't think Patterson is ready just yet, he has definitely improved and maybe next year if this form continues he is worthy of being potentially selected. Lets have an honest look at Patterson say against SA away from home last 3 years 0, 7, 14, 0, 17, 12 (total 50 runs @8.3) Outstanding I'll be generous and look at WA since he just scored a century there. 24, 16, 8, 39, (av was 21) then scored 107, 43 lifting his av to 40 so yes that is moving in the right direction But in all honesty he has played OK against the Vics scoring 61, 43, 53, 63 and 53 a lot of good starts but where are the 100's I do remember at the Gabba a few years ago he did score a 111, the reason I remember that game is Joe Burns MURDERED Starc and Hazlewood scoring 160 for the game. But maybe you're right this discrepancy doesn't affect all players in NSW, Let's have a look at this year Hughes Home av 71 Away 18 Larkin Home av 62.5 Away 30 Henriques Home av 55.4 Away 22.5 Sangha Home av 53 Away 9 Edwards Home av 35 Away 21 Nevill Home av 32 Away 18 Does anyone else see a discrepancy between home and away, because my "bias" may be clouding my judgement? Post all state players Mike. Instead of targeting only those from the state you clearly detest. Then we will get the full story. I would a have notioned that home ground advantage was just that.. so home scores would be superior to away. I may be wrong. So prove me wrong mr stats man.
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BaggyGreens
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+x+xMy next question is, why is Langer not sorting this out. All I hear bandied around by the commentators, is that he stands by his team & has their backs - great, but what if your team is not performing. Look at our selections for 12 & 13, WI would always have 2 good fielders and on hot days in Perth rotate their players into the rooms for a rest. Caused a bit of controversy in it's day but what smart management. Who did we bring on Siddle!! Langer seems to be slipping under the radar & I think more questions need t be asked about him. some fight has been put into a very average team by him perhaps but he should be well away from selection. Perhaps some tactical changes like you suggest could help too some fight has been put into a very average team by him perhaps but he should be well away from selection. Perhaps some tactical changes like you suggest could help too. Agree. I am also against the coach being a selector.
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MikeR
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+xAs for whether NSW scores are inflated here are the ground averages per wicket over the past season NSW 30.1 Tas 25.9 WA 32.1 QLD 47.75 SA 34.8 Vic 30.26 If NSW runs are inflated due to flat pitches its not showing up in the stats..... Last year Patterson away from home scored 14, 0, 12, 16, 22, 17, 24, 16, 43 and 53 (217 av 21.7), but overall he scored 672 runs at 37. That is a big discrepancy and only 1 test a year is played in Sydney, where Patterson scored 455 runs @ 56.8 So yes I see an inflated average. But this year Patterson is scoring away from home with the century in Perth being his best to date, so though I don't think Patterson is ready just yet, he has definitely improved and maybe next year if this form continues he is worthy of being potentially selected. Lets have an honest look at Patterson say against SA away from home last 3 years 0, 7, 14, 0, 17, 12 (total 50 runs @8.3) Outstanding I'll be generous and look at WA since he just scored a century there. 24, 16, 8, 39, (av was 21) then scored 107, 43 lifting his av to 40 so yes that is moving in the right direction But in all honesty he has played OK against the Vics scoring 61, 43, 53, 63 and 53 a lot of good starts but where are the 100's I do remember at the Gabba a few years ago he did score a 111, the reason I remember that game is Joe Burns MURDERED Starc and Hazlewood scoring 160 for the game. But maybe you're right this discrepancy doesn't affect all players in NSW, Let's have a look at this year Hughes Home av 71 Away 18 Larkin Home av 62.5 Away 30 Henriques Home av 55.4 Away 22.5 Sangha Home av 53 Away 9 Edwards Home av 35 Away 21 Nevill Home av 32 Away 18 Does anyone else see a discrepancy between home and away, because my "bias" may be clouding my judgement? Discrepancies for individuals sure I can accept that but for every member of the team, I'd say inflated averages
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BaggyGreens
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xRegardless of who may or may not make the side, my hat is off to Kholi and his team. They came into the match with a plan, a plan that had everyone questioning the pitch, calling it a batsman paradise which it never was. They knew Australia would struggle to score 600 runs (doesn't matter who you put in the side including Smith and Warner). They learnt from their mistakes from the first innings 1st test where they chased wide deliveries and gave their wickets away. They played patiently against poor bowling that never attacked the stumps, and declared at 7/450 (Australia couldn't bowl them out with their stupid plan of playing to Kholi's ego of chasing deliveries which he didn't.) Their bowlers simply made the batsmen play shots by aiming at the wickets and so far 8 lbw and bowled, compared to Australia who got 3, 2 bowled by Cummins and 1 by Lyons. They outplayed us in all aspects of the game including captaincy and that is why they are No1 in the world. That is why we will still be No5 regardless if we win the 4th test. If fingers are to be pointed it is the same finger that is always pointed over the last year against SA and India ie the Openers, Marsh Bros, Hazlewood and Starc. If you want to be better cast aside all not just one or 2 and hope. IMO there are 6 positions up for grabs, not just 1 or 2. Head is our leading run scorer, he is fine, Khawaja is inconsistent but fine, Paine is a reluctant captain and is only captain because of stupidity, as a keeper batsmen is fine. Cummins is head and shoulders above the others, though I thought he was injured for the first 2 tests but he is great now. He and Lyons are the only players currently IMO that deserve their millions per year. No way is Head long term. His technique is as loose as a cannon. Did you not hear the 7 coms dissecting his technical flaws. Take a look at his dismissals in this series. Not once has the bowler got him. He has handed them his wicket. Other than today when he played on. He does not average @36 or so for nothing in FC cricket. Keeper/batsmen are as rare as hen's teeth. I admire Timmy for putting up his hand in a difficult time. His coach does as well. I can not believe the improvement in one test by Pat Cummins. People were calling for his head after his mediocre second test. I among them. He is back to the sort of pace and intimidation that made him an overnite star as a teenager. Unlike in those early days he now has another gear. He can bowl accurate seam up as well anyone going round. So you will drop Head when he outscores everyone, including Khawaja. I'll go with you on Handscomb but not to give someone with talent a fair go is unbelievable. Head is here to stay until they sort out the other real problem areas. Openers simple, Unfortunately Warner has to come back as much as I hate to admit it. Burns has to come back, no one else has his record. The selectors have to suck it up and admit they made a mistake, It took time for Khawaja to produce in Asia, time Burns was never given. Smith replaces S Marsh simple Maxwell replaces M Marsh, you hate to admit it because you don't like him but it makes sense Tremain replaces Hazlewood. Tremain has been leading wicket taker for the last 3-4 years, something Hazlewood never got close to being in his time with NSW even prior to being initially selected. Cummins and Tremain opening I would like to see that. Strike bowler introduced initially at No 3 I think Gabe Bell or Jhye Richardson. Bell averages 21 is a young kid that can build up a career. Richardson is even younger and averages 23. Read what I typed. Long term. He has to start converting much more, work on his dodgy technique before he can be considered a test batsman. I would make a like for like swap for Sri Lanka with Kurtis Patterson who has a classical technique. Time he was given a chance. Hazlewood has a very good FC record. Bell are you kidding. Tremain replaces Starc. I still can not accept that Josh will be dropped. If he is then I want Richardson to take his place. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/bowling/most_wickets_career.html?id=6788;type=tournamentJosh Hazlewood ranked 22 http://stats.espncricinfo.com/sheffield-shield-2012/engine/records/bowling/most_wickets_career.html?id=7544;type=tournamentJosh Hazlewood ranked 16 http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/bowling/most_wickets_career.html?id=8599;type=tournamentJosh Hazlewood ranked 15 In the Australian side....No Bias there. Should never have been picked and his performances over the last 3 year proves that that is his ranking http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/bowling/most_wickets_career.html?id=12018;type=tournamentChris Tremain Ranked No 1 http://stats.espncricinfo.com/sheffield-shield-2016-17/engine/records/bowling/most_wickets_career.html?id=11375;type=tournamentChris Tremain Ranked No 3 http://stats.espncricinfo.com/sheffield-shield-2015-16/engine/records/bowling/most_wickets_career.html?id=10265;type=tournamentChris Tremain Ranked No 5 Just shows Chris Tremain just gets better and better. AS I SAID JOSH HAZLEWOOD NEVER ACHIEVED He never completed a full season. Bit hard to top the wicket tally when you dont play all 10 matches. I said he has a good FC record and he does. | Mat | Inns | Balls | Runs | Wkts | BBI | BBM | Ave | Econ | SR | 4w | 5w |
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| 76 | 141 | 15171 | 7117 | 285 | 6/50 | 9/136 | 24.97 | 2.81 | 53.2 | 10 | 7 |
Don't quote stats unless you know what they mean Baggers. FC stats include Tests and if you eliminate test they don't match Chris Tremain, actually I'll go even further Josh Hazlewood has only played 32 sheffield shield games yet how many were prior to his selection in 2014 19 matches prior to selection for Josh Hazlewood 19 matches 66/1788 av 27.09 (3.5 wickets per match sounding familiar) Actually 19 matches for 66 wickets I really never knew that. That you have to admit is paltry return Baggers. Like really! That get you selected in the Australian side? Dear me, OH to be a NSW player, and I'm not kidding I genuinely am blown away by that, and you know I have been around the development side of the game. No wonder players get disillusioned with the game. Is that how bias CA is!!! That is really saddening for myself, you will never know how much so. Chris Tremain his overall career 52 matches 204/4832 av 23.68 (3.9 wickets per match) Big difference!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As I said Baggers you have to know what stats represent. Your @27 av means nothing if you do not complete the season. I explained why that was. He was selected in his first Aussie team on the back of a strong 2010 WC. Like so many of our cricketers are. So U19 WC gets you in the Australian side......B.S. Baggers. A F***ing One Day meaningless tournament that is so bias in it's selection process, gets a player selected to wear the baggy green. AND YOU WONDER WHY WE'RE LOSING. How did he go in the round robin stage of that tournament Against USA Hazlewood 3/46 Alister McDermott took 4/29 (Don't see McDermott in the Australian side) Against Ireland Hazlewood 0/11 Kane Richardson 3/23 (Don't see Richardson playing test matches) McDermott DNP Against South Africa Hazlewood 0/58 Kane Richardson 3/49 McDermott 1/49 (Still don't see Richardson nor McDermott in the Australian side) SURPRISE SURPRISE HAZLEWOOD COULDN'T TAKE A WICKET AGAINST SA EVEN BACK THEN!!!!!! So 3/115, sees you progress to the U19 finals and ultimately wearing a baggy green, whilst McDermott and Richardson were in and out of the U19 side. BIAS, BIAS,BIAS. Hazlewood wasn't consistent then, not consistent now. Baggers Australia have just been pants and spanked by SA and India's bowlers and Hazlewood's performance is pathetic, but hey keep picking him in the hope he may come good, which has been your story for the last 3 years. Just to refresh your memory with no more tests this year http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/bowling/most_wickets_career.html?class=1;id=2018;type=yearWorst bowler this year, when Australia was pants and spanked, is Josh "GLOW WORM" Hazlewood. Forget Tremain, Josh is the man, let him keep earning his millions, whilst Tremain just gets the crusts of bread that Josh leaves behind. Tremain's performances mean nothing he didn't play the U19 tournament. Other bowlers in Australia, give up and play T20 get some money there, Josh is going nowhere, regardless of his performances at sheffield shield level, his poor showing in test matches over the last year, no, last 32 tests he's played, he played U19 tournament. And that people is typical of how CA work, they have their pets who get the contracts, and people wonder why players search for the dollars in T20 and people call them sell outs. They have families to house and feed and CA aren't rewarding true performances. I for one don't blame them and that is why Australia is losing, players are searching for the dollars elsewhere. So U19 WC gets you in the Australian side......B.S. Baggers. A F***ing One Day meaningless tournament that is so bias in it's selection process, gets a player selected to wear the baggy green. AND YOU WONDER WHY WE'RE LOSING.
Cream rose to the top when needed. Without looking at details Josh bowled well in the finals. That is what really counts. I would not call a world cup meaningless.. Trawl thru the archives and check out how many of ours and overseas stars of past and present announced themselves in this "meaningless" tournament. The only thing I want changed is bring in a red ball component for both our underage nationals and world cup. Better still make them red ball tournaments.
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BaggyGreens
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+xThe real issue is CA is falling behind the rest of the world in a big way after leading with its academies... a huge problem right now that Aus has is the BBL is during the test home season - India was far too smart to do that with the IPL..... India brains 1 Aus - silly :) Cricket isn't AFL - you have roofed stadiums - there was an easy fix.... 
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grazorblade
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+xMy next question is, why is Langer not sorting this out. All I hear bandied around by the commentators, is that he stands by his team & has their backs - great, but what if your team is not performing. Look at our selections for 12 & 13, WI would always have 2 good fielders and on hot days in Perth rotate their players into the rooms for a rest. Caused a bit of controversy in it's day but what smart management. Who did we bring on Siddle!! Langer seems to be slipping under the radar & I think more questions need t be asked about him. some fight has been put into a very average team by him perhaps but he should be well away from selection. Perhaps some tactical changes like you suggest could help too
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grazorblade
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+x+xso our current 40+ batsmen are Marsh and Khawaja (in the team and probably should stay with Marsh replaced by smith) Burns who plays for QLD White who plays for Vic Maxwell who plays for Vic Pattison who plays for NSW and Lynn who plays for QLD but has made himself unavailable (I reckon he could be brought back) an ok batting squad actually is possible. Harris and that youngster (Pukavic? what's his name?) are other options given their youth I suppose. Also Wade given he gets his runs in tasmania is a defensible position (also nearly 40 anyway) Pucovski, Sangha and Philippe are the three most exciting of our next gen. Why not take a gamble and blood all three against the weaker Lankans. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Call in White or Bailey..even Maxwell to provide mentorship . grazor. It is Kurtis Patterson mate.not Pattinson. ah sorry
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jaszyjim
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My next question is, why is Langer not sorting this out.
All I hear bandied around by the commentators, is that he stands by his team & has their backs - great, but what if your team is not performing.
Look at our selections for 12 & 13, WI would always have 2 good fielders and on hot days in Perth rotate their players into the rooms for a rest.
Caused a bit of controversy in it's day but what smart management. Who did we bring on Siddle!!
Langer seems to be slipping under the radar & I think more questions need t be asked about him.
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BaggyGreens
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+xso our current 40+ batsmen are Marsh and Khawaja (in the team and probably should stay with Marsh replaced by smith) Burns who plays for QLD White who plays for Vic Maxwell who plays for Vic Pattison who plays for NSW and Lynn who plays for QLD but has made himself unavailable (I reckon he could be brought back) an ok batting squad actually is possible. Harris and that youngster (Pukavic? what's his name?) are other options given their youth I suppose. Also Wade given he gets his runs in tasmania is a defensible position (also nearly 40 anyway) Pucovski, Sangha and Philippe are the three most exciting of our next gen. Why not take a gamble and blood all three against the weaker Lankans. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Call in White or Bailey..even Maxwell to provide mentorship . grazor. It is Kurtis Patterson mate.not Pattinson.
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BaggyGreens
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+x+x+xSomeone posted a few days ago that Cummings was trying to turn himself into an all rounder, which did not attract much attention. First innings after 2 days in the heat bowling, took it,s toll on his bating, but hasn't he shown his qualities now. If he can become a truly great all rounder doesn't that change the dynamics of the team. When a pace all rounder is required he goes in at 6 with 3 other pace men & Lyon. If you want a spinning all rounder then Cummins becomes a bowler but where do you bat him? eg next test @ SCG - 2 openners, Khawaja, S. Marsh, Head, Agar, Paine, Cummins etc. Problem is, Cummins currently is batting better that any of them, is he going to be good enough to bat at 4 instead of S. Marsh? Our last quality pace all rounder was Keith 'Nugget" Miller yonks ago... or was he classed as a genuine all rounder? How does S Marsh keep his place? When we need him to stand up and make a big statement such as yesterday.. he falls flat on his face. He has done that so many times over the years I have lost count. He is mentally weak as is his brother. Swampy was not all that mentally great either from memory. keith miller has an insane record I'd be ok with another watson. In the meantime players like white/maxwell are enough to give the top 4 a rest Watson in his heyday yes. Injury cruelled what could have been a productive career.
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grazorblade
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+x+xSomeone posted a few days ago that Cummings was trying to turn himself into an all rounder, which did not attract much attention. First innings after 2 days in the heat bowling, took it,s toll on his bating, but hasn't he shown his qualities now. If he can become a truly great all rounder doesn't that change the dynamics of the team. When a pace all rounder is required he goes in at 6 with 3 other pace men & Lyon. If you want a spinning all rounder then Cummins becomes a bowler but where do you bat him? eg next test @ SCG - 2 openners, Khawaja, S. Marsh, Head, Agar, Paine, Cummins etc. Problem is, Cummins currently is batting better that any of them, is he going to be good enough to bat at 4 instead of S. Marsh? Our last quality pace all rounder was Keith 'Nugget" Miller yonks ago... or was he classed as a genuine all rounder? How does S Marsh keep his place? When we need him to stand up and make a big statement such as yesterday.. he falls flat on his face. He has done that so many times over the years I have lost count. He is mentally weak as is his brother. Swampy was not all that mentally great either from memory. keith miller has an insane record I'd be ok with another watson. In the meantime players like white/maxwell are enough to give the top 4 a rest
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BaggyGreens
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+xSomeone posted a few days ago that Cummings was trying to turn himself into an all rounder, which did not attract much attention. First innings after 2 days in the heat bowling, took it,s toll on his bating, but hasn't he shown his qualities now. If he can become a truly great all rounder doesn't that change the dynamics of the team. When a pace all rounder is required he goes in at 6 with 3 other pace men & Lyon. If you want a spinning all rounder then Cummins becomes a bowler but where do you bat him? eg next test @ SCG - 2 openners, Khawaja, S. Marsh, Head, Agar, Paine, Cummins etc. Problem is, Cummins currently is batting better that any of them, is he going to be good enough to bat at 4 instead of S. Marsh? Our last quality pace all rounder was Keith 'Nugget" Miller yonks ago... or was he classed as a genuine all rounder? How does S Marsh keep his place? When we need him to stand up and make a big statement such as yesterday.. he falls flat on his face. He has done that so many times over the years I have lost count. He is mentally weak as is his brother. Swampy was not all that mentally great either from memory.
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BaggyGreens
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+xAs for whether NSW scores are inflated here are the ground averages per wicket over the past season NSW 30.1 Tas 25.9 WA 32.1 QLD 47.75 SA 34.8 Vic 30.26 If NSW runs are inflated due to flat pitches its not showing up in the stats..... Good for you grazor shooting down Mikes NSW bias in flames.
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jaszyjim
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Someone posted a few days ago that Cummings was trying to turn himself into an all rounder,
which did not attract much attention.
First innings after 2 days in the heat bowling, took it,s toll on his bating, but hasn't he shown his qualities now.
If he can become a truly great all rounder doesn't that change the dynamics of the team.
When a pace all rounder is required he goes in at 6 with 3 other pace men & Lyon.
If you want a spinning all rounder then Cummins becomes a bowler but where do you bat him?
eg next test @ SCG - 2 openners, Khawaja, S. Marsh, Head, Agar, Paine, Cummins etc.
Problem is, Cummins currently is batting better that any of them, is he going to be good enough to bat at 4 instead of S. Marsh?
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BaggyGreens
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+x+x+xRegardless of who may or may not make the side, my hat is off to Kholi and his team. They came into the match with a plan, a plan that had everyone questioning the pitch, calling it a batsman paradise which it never was. They knew Australia would struggle to score 600 runs (doesn't matter who you put in the side including Smith and Warner). They learnt from their mistakes from the first innings 1st test where they chased wide deliveries and gave their wickets away. They played patiently against poor bowling that never attacked the stumps, and declared at 7/450 (Australia couldn't bowl them out with their stupid plan of playing to Kholi's ego of chasing deliveries which he didn't.) Their bowlers simply made the batsmen play shots by aiming at the wickets and so far 8 lbw and bowled, compared to Australia who got 3, 2 bowled by Cummins and 1 by Lyons. They outplayed us in all aspects of the game including captaincy and that is why they are No1 in the world. That is why we will still be No5 regardless if we win the 4th test. If fingers are to be pointed it is the same finger that is always pointed over the last year against SA and India ie the Openers, Marsh Bros, Hazlewood and Starc. If you want to be better cast aside all not just one or 2 and hope. IMO there are 6 positions up for grabs, not just 1 or 2. Head is our leading run scorer, he is fine, Khawaja is inconsistent but fine, Paine is a reluctant captain and is only captain because of stupidity, as a keeper batsmen is fine. Cummins is head and shoulders above the others, though I thought he was injured for the first 2 tests but he is great now. He and Lyons are the only players currently IMO that deserve their millions per year. Gday SF Always a bit late to the Forum due to time difference, Great post and says everything I wanted to say & my hat off to Kohli as well a truly well planned, captains performance Sorry, MikeR, still waking up Why cannot Aussies swing a ball - you hold it down the seam... its not that hard...The only reason I can come up with is our bowlers cut their teeth with non swing conditions. Fast and bouncy decks are not conducive to swing. Hot sunny days are not conducive to swing. So the emphasis is to bowl fast and seam up. You can count on one hand the out of the truely quality swing bowlers produced in this country over the decades. Today Chadd Sayers, Frank Worrall and Nick Winter are the only three that come to mind. If CA is using horses for courses selection policy one or two of those blokes should be on the plane to England. Tho green Winter would be one. He was allbut unplayable last season. Our juniors are evidently still not being tutored in swing bowling. That was evident watching some of the U17/19 nationals finals this year. So sadly nothing is likely to change. I call on CA to make the Duke ball mandatory for all 10 Shield rounds the next time we are about to tour England. Reckon they missed a trick not doing that this time. They could also think outside the box and start the shield later to ensure good preparation for what to expect in England.
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