Maxxie said: “ They then hired an independent "expert" to assess the validity of the claims.”

Yep, if you wanted to guarantee an outcome against a male in a position of power, ‘Our Watch’ is exactly the ‘independent expert’ you’d turn to.
https://www.ourwatch.org.au

“Our Watch has been established to drive nationwide change in the culture, behaviours and power imbalances that lead to violence against women and their children”

And guess what? They miraculously found a culture that needs changing. Who’d have thought? It’s like getting an IT company to assess whether your computer systems need upgrading or not.

Obviously if player said there was nothing wrong, with the culture, it’s because the culture is so bad they are afraid to tell the truth.

I didn't say that (maybe a typo?)

I'm not one to defend FFA for hiring outside "experts" instead of using their own collective 11 brain cells to make a decision, and there is potential for a conflict of interest in hiring a company like that, as finding a problem help them justify further need for their services, but that doesn't mean that there isn't actually a problem.

You could equally argue that DG and co very clearly knew there was a problem but wanted the distance provided by following an "expert opinion", either for legal or PR reasons. 

I'm still not sure how people have so confidently concluded that truth is the former and not that latter. 

When FFA have hired outside experts to 'advise' them on expansion, people on here are always criticising the move as them hiring a firm to provide justification for a decision they've already made. Why wouldn't it be the same case with this?

Soccer superstar Sam Kerr was gagged by Football Federation Australia after the shock sacking of Matildas coach Alen Stajcic threw the national side into disarray just months out from the women’s World Cup.

Kerr, shortlisted for the inaugural female Ballon d’Or last year, was warming up for a Glory clinic yesterday at the same time the FFA was holding a press conference in Sydney to announce Stajcic had been stood down over “workplace issues”.

Glory staff were blindsided by the development, initially informing waiting media she would be available for comment before backtracking and saying the FFA had dictated Kerr would not speak.

The Perth product still took part in the fan day and posed for photographs but media were prevented from asking her any questions and at the end of the clinic she was whisked out of nib Stadium by a minder.

https://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/soccer/soccer-star-samantha-kerr-gagged-by-football-federation-australia-after-coach-sacked-ng-b881078880z.amp

I reckon everything will be reviewed in due course, most probably in the court sadly.

For me, neither of those options is acceptable. You don’t get a consultant to give you a predetermined answer, and you don’t get a consultant who has an obvious conflict of interest.
When you have this obvious conflict, and you have journos, players and even the Women’s Football Council all totally shocked by a supposed long term cultural issue, don’t you start to get even the slightest inkling that something is not quite as presented by Gallop?

@maxxie, sorry if it wasn’t you- on my phone it sometimes shows a quoted comment under a different poster.

Yeah, its too early to jump to conclusions, but I instantly became suspicious the moment I saw Our Watch were involved. 

So sad especially for Stajcic’s family, not nice to come back home telling there family they got fired from there job.

It’s disgraceful this has happened, surely any cultural problem can be tackled head on by the people they are concerned with the coach and not by a bloody survey. It’s ok to be honest and tell how you really feel.

Very disappointing and kind of angry at the same time, surely there is a good chance that it will end up in the courts because this feels quite messy given the reactions from some of the players too.

Maybe it’s an outside job to get of him who knows? Society is filled with these stories these days more and more.

"Fairness" is a subjective concept.  It depends on whether you are giving it or receiving.

The fact that we don't have the facts speaks volumes that this is something the FFA does not want to make public.

There are suggestions that the things I've mentioned have occurred.  Add to that the accusation that players be required play when at risk of injury.

Viduka is on the record that the preparation under Hiddink was the most intense and physically demanding in his career.  Hiddink pushed players to the limits.  He is also on the record as saying on video that : "We have to be fit, fit, fit".  No player made a peep.  How would the Matilda's fair with someone like him?

Don't forget the current politics are more or less a Western thing.  But football is the World Game.  Our competition won't give a crap about vague concepts  of players being "bullied". They just want to win.

I'm all on board in believing FFA incompetence, but some on this thread have taken this current situation as an excuse to malign some of the Matilda's as "princesses" who can't hack a man raising his voice at them, when there isn't any evidence that that is the case.

I wouldn't say everyone is shocked, there have been people saying they're shocked, and others who have said they're not surprised and that these rumblings have been going on for some time.

The only people who have seen what was in those surveys, decided to fire Staj. That's all we have to go on. I'm open to believing it's an overreaction, mostly because DG made the decision and the guy is a total muppet, but I've been baffled by how many people on this thread were triggered by the mere possibility that Staj was fired unfairly, a possibility they have constructed and fleshed out into a full fledged conspiracy against men, to the point of requiring zero evidence that their position is true, and going on rants about women's hypersensitivity.

This is the second time that you've used the "it's all subjective" reasoning to essentially say nothing means anything so we can't know anything. You're going to give me a full on existential crisis.

First bullying and blackmail are subjective so we can't use them as a reason to fire someone, now fairness is subjective so we can't say it's fair to fire someone. 

The fact that we don't have facts reminds us that we're speaking about football. They never give facts. I think this is the first time a coach has left a football team in any manner than "a mutual parting of the ways". The level of openness DG showed during this press conference shocked me and the fact that he gave any details at all led me to the conclusion he was confident in his reasoning for making this decision. Obviously you disagree, but when else has DG been forthcoming in any aspect of his job?

You keep bringing up the fact that the men's coaches pushed the players, but I still don't see what that has to do with this situation. I don't think anyone would believe Staj was fired because he made the players run too much.

"There are suggestions that the things I've mentioned have occurred.  Add to that the accusation that players be required play when at risk of injury." - Doesn't this support the position the Staj was mistreating the players by making them play against medical advice? 

Good post maxxie (the one replying to me). The things I struggle with are:
1. If the people saying they are not surprised (including guys like Daniel Garb) are correct, why did not a single journo raise the issue earlier or investigate further.
2. What was the reason for TWO surveys (including one by a company with a known anti-male agenda) and why was the Women’s Football Council not involved?
3. If so called ‘insiders’ are not shocked (as stated by Garb and Lucy Zelic) why are some of the players?
4. If this is at least partially about ‘favouritism’ (and some players being treated differently to others) why does it seem Sam Kerr has been gagged, but others are free to tweet their disappointment?

@maxxie. When one is being treated like a mushroom; kept in the dark and fed B.S........what do you do ? You connect the dots yourself with what means are at your disposal; rationale, past Matilda’s coach sacking, current social political climate, what organisations are involved, who wasn’t consulted, past experience in football and the workplace etc etc etc

The end result may be something totally different and I’m happy to admit I was wrong....but with what we have to go on right now.....all signs point to a hatchet job on Stajic.

Agree, if Alen is in the wrong then it's all fine and dandy, at the moment it looks very messy and weirdly handled.

...
"The FFA was quick to dismiss speculation Stajcic's sacking stemmed from a protest by an influential, yet rogue element of the squad. While players revolted in 2014 to oust Hesterine de Reus as Matildas coach, this coaching change was different. Firstly, many players wanted Stajcic to remain, several expressing their dismay and shock at Saturday's decision on social media. Privately, however, there were several more relieved that change had arrived. Much of that has to do with the development of a toxic culture within the team. Following the PFA's review, a damning report undertaken by Our Watch, an organisation tackling abuse and violence of women, alleged incidents that bordered on harassment. It is understood it flagged cases of bullying, intimidation, retribution and even body shaming towards some younger players and even suggestions of flippant homophobic insults regularly made by unspecified staff members.

While the FFA did not say Stajcic was directly responsible for any such behaviour, it deemed that, as head coach, he was ultimately responsible"


https://www.theage.com.au/sport/soccer/how-routine-review-spiralled-out-of-control-and-cost-stajcic-his-job-20190119-p50sf4.html

Add to shortlist

Further comments from players. Slowly, through elimination, we’ll find out who the complainers are.

Alana Kennedy: “His dedication to our team was remarkable. So much respect for Staj. We reached new heights under him and I am truly saddened. Hoping for a quick resolution as you say, KK.”

Elise Kellind-Knight: “Today our world turned upside down. Although we aren’t privy to the finer details of Staj’s dismissal, I respect him as a coach and what he has done for the group thus far. It’s a difficult time for everyone involved and I’m hoping for a quick resolution 🙏

As I said earlier, why was Sam Kerr gagged but others not?

1. Good question. Lucy said, or at least intimated, on twitter she couldn't say much for legal reasons, which is very annoying, both for her and us.
2. Another good question. I'd be of the opinion that the Women's council would be in the lead on this, and if anyone was going to look into the culture of the team it would be them, not an outside agency who isn't involved in football. 
3. This is unknowable at this point. Some have suggested they might be trying to distance themselves from criticism. It could also be that these specific players aren't the ones who complained, which highlights how divided the team probably is, with the other players knowing that fingers are going to be pointed at them for their silence.
4. I'd imagine if it is about favouritism, Kerr would be one of those favourites, considering she's one of the best in the world. The FFA would know/assume she would be critical of their decision and wouldn't want their star player talking shit about them.

Would what/when Kerr can do/say be regulated as part of her marquee payment from the FFA?

No, you don't. You wait for more information. The only reason to jump to conclusions is to reach a conclusion, which none of us are obligated to do, and only de-legitimises your opinion by basing it on speculation.


"The end result may be something totally different and I’m happy to admit I was wrong....but with what we have to go on right now.....all signs point to a hatchet job on Stajic."
No they don't. Some signs lend themselves to that conclusion, others don't. You could have just as easily prioritised the words of the players themselves in the surveys, the info from insiders saying this isn't a surprise, the reports of players being forced to play against medical advice and the fact that Gallop openly admitted to why he fired Staj, but you didn't. 

I don't see why you've chosen to prioritise information that is mostly not directly connected to the situation (e.g. past Matilda's coach sacking, current social political climate, past experience in football and the workplace) over, admittedly unconfirmed information that is actually directly related to the situation.

As I keep saying, we know very little about this situation, so I'm open to the conclusion that this was a bad decision. What's confusing me is the outright confidence people have the Staj has been stitched up, when there isn't enough information to be confident about anything, other than our own frustration at the lack of transparency.

re: subjectivity, lets have a look at a post someone else made regards "bullying":

Examples of bullying include:

• behaving aggressively
• teasing or practical jokes
• pressuring someone to behave inappropriately
• excluding someone from work-related events or
• unreasonable work demands.

Currently Bruno Fornaroli has a case to make he is being bullied on point 4 as he is being excluded from the match day squad and may even be training alone.  The latter has actually happened to a former Melbourne Victory player.

And there are numerous examples all over the world like that in Mens football.  None have lead to the coach being sacked.

"Following the PFA's review, a damning report undertaken by Our Watch, an organisation tackling abuse and violence of women, alleged incidents that bordered on harassment. It is understood it flagged cases of bullying, intimidation, retribution and even body shaming towards some younger players and even suggestions of flippant homophobic insults regularly made by unspecified staff members."

Body shaming, FFS!

I'll stand by my original opinion: a male coach coaching female sport has to have rocks in their head in the current environment.

if its yellow and it quacks its a duck.

Pretty much.

A: "You need to improve your fitness"

B: "He said I was fat and ugly and I'm not playing"

It's that easy.

I get a feeling it’s forced to train at 100% against medical advice. If you don’t train then you won’t play, if you don’t play you won’t be selected in future squads.
Look for Matilda’s who have recently returned from injury but are now on the outer and you won’t find many of them coming out as shocked by the decision.

Have a cup of camomile and relax maxxie.....this is a forum; people are free to make educated observations. You seem to be taking this thread very personally as an attack on women....you are a woman right ?

@ thewitness. Fancy a coach telling a player that if they are not fit enough to train, then they are not fit enough to play.
Sackable offence right there!

Do you think Rogic trains at 100% at the moment, no because he is carrying injuries.

That’s the coach’s choice, not Rogic’s. Do you think say Risdon would be eased through training in the same way? No, because we have equivalent replacements. I suppose you’d call that favouritism, and demand Arnie’s Sacking?
Remember when players were told, if they weren’t playing for their club they wouldn’t be selected? I suppose you’d consider that ‘emotional blackmail’?

Mate the football world is littered with (usually star) injured players playing with various painkillers or not.

Maradona played the entire 1990 World Cup with a broken foot.  Harry Kewell started a Champions League Final injured.

Its not unusual at the elite level.

It seems to me male coaches are directly transferring these things into women sport, and its not on.

I'm a guy. I will say that it annoys me how quickly australian football fans are willing to throw their own players under the bus when a situation is framed as 'men vs women'. 

The main reason that I'm intent on arguing my point is that this thread is a perfect example of one of my biggest pet peeves, which is the trend of people wanting to reach conclusions about things they know nothing about, and to speak so confidently on things that are clearly coming from an emotional, rather than critical thought process. 

The ironic thing is that I mostly find myself annoyed when people on the other side of this debate, 'SJWs', do it. I felt that it was important to point out to people who see themselves as warriors against SJWs that they're using the exact same logic as the people they hate. SJW logic is actually just a lot of cognitive biases made manifest, things that we all fall victim to like confirmation bias and false equivalencies. 

People in this thread decry the hypersensitivity of women's movements, all while jumping to conclusions based on what agrees with their feelings.

To sum it up:

Yes, but women’s footballer especially the younger ones are not well paid or supported 7 days a week, year round by well equipped clubs with many medical professionals, but they are still expected to meet those same elite professional standards.
Sally Shipard spoke out in the past few years on how she developed an eating disorder as a young Matilda trying to meet skin fold levels, that plagued her throughout her career and led to other mental health issues.