Will start this early. They’ve called up Stoinis and released Renshaw for the squad

Stoinis, they have not got a clue.

Agree, in the sense that Michael Neser offers more fire as a pace bowler.

He took 2-8 off five  overs opening the attack with the new ball in the tour game against Sri Lanka at Bellerive last week.




Hang in there, Test Fan.

DC  I have to agree that  Wildermuth or even Neser would be a better bet than Stoinis if they wanna go down the very worn pace bowler all rounder path. We all know CA is obsessed with this policy. Stoinis  is a limited overs specialist. He has has a woeful FC record and has been picked alone on white ball performance. Just when you praise CA they come up with another clanger.

Agree with you, Baggers.

They've selected Stoinis on shaky criteria. White ball cricket isn't Test or FC cricket.

I like the pace all rounder option though, to decrease fast bowlers' workloads on flat decks.

DC did Lillee, Thompson ever have a pace bowling all rounder to reduce their workload? 

Quicks thrive better on workload. Can you imagine trying to get the ball out of DK's hand so he could take a spell.

Under that nong Howard and his sports scientist gurus Australia's bowlers have become soft. They have been too molly coddled. They have lost that tuff edge. A fast bowler needs to be bowling as the great Pidge often comments. There is a reason why our mature bowlers are going down with the kid's ailment.. back stress fractures. Just point to CA.

Oh Baggers, turn it up. 

Lillee had Doug Walters. He didn't just fall onto 49 test wickets (at 29 a piece).

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=balls;player_involve=1369;team=2;template=results;type=bowling

Then the spin options:

Greg Chappel bowled 1 over to Lillee's 6...

Then Border and Ian Chappell.

I mean seriously. Michael Holding says the same thing about sport science. But the fact is 

1 There's so much more cricket now - but more importantly of all
2 There are minimum over rates now.

In Lillee and Holding's era, they took the piss. They didn't bowl when tired, 75 overs in the day only. So be it. It's changed now.

McGrath gave up bowling fast early on - even then he had Mark and Steve Waugh, let alone Blewett, Symonds and Watson at times. Bit of Bevan for some spin?

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=balls;player_involve=2101;team=2;template=results;type=bowling

Forgot about Dougie. A good partnership breaker. Greg was an under rated bowler imho.

labu is already the alrounder though right?

Not a pace bowling one.

Renshaw is out of form.

I really hope he gets back to where he was 18 months ago.

I am a touch puzzled about Renshaw. I posted earlier that I believed CA returned him to the fold as they wanted him for the Ashes. So what do they do they leave him out of the First Test and look like doing the same for the Second Test..as Langer says unlikely the selectors will change a winning side. So where does this put Renshaw's Ashes chances? His only hope now is to smash open the door in the remaining Shield games.

Yeah didnt Nesser got to UAE? That was a weird squad with Nesser and Doggett both smokeys, never given a look and not looked at since. 

But looking at Nessers stats hes got 27 with the bat and 30 with the ball. Stoinis has 34 with the bat and 42 with the ball. Nesser has no first class hundreds whilst Stoinis has 4 and one international ODI century. Knowing that allrounder position is going to need to be a batting allrounder who can bat 6 and give us a few overs if needed but not really bowl a lot I can see why they went Stoinis. 

That said Langer has pretty much confirmed its an unchanged squad. Stoinis might be about getting him in the squad with the view of taking him as a pace bowling batting allrounder to the Ashes

If you pick an allrounder who is good enough they can act almost like two players.
If you pick an allrounder who is not good enough they are almost like not picking anyone. They will fail with the bat, they will fail with the ball.

There is not an all rounder in Australia who falls into the former category, all of them are the later and should be no where near the test team. 

Labuschagne has to be a batsman, and then his part time spin can be handy. However if he is a failure as a batsman his bowling is nowhere near good enough to keep him in the side.It might nab him a couple of wickets in favourable conditions, or even win a test if everything comes together like it did for Border and Clarke once, but he is not going to be anything like a test match quality spinner.

As I mentioned before how far away is Cummins as a good allrounder? to replace Labuschange?

A way to go for Cummo. Would you pick him in your top 6?  He is at best a bowler who bats at #7 or #8.  For the moment he lacks the temperament and range of strokes to command full respect from the strongest sides. I have no doubt he could develop into a very good all rounder. There is no denying his determination and passion.. plus he is an excellent athlete. 

Cummins is not an all rounder, he is a very good fast bowler who can make some runs. He only averages 20.30, but has looked better recently. Lets see if it continues. Mitchell Starc has a higher average than him with 21.85
Of recent times Reiffel averaged 26.52, Johnson 22.20 and Lee 20.15, others like Gillespie, Fleming, Bichel, Hughes and Warne are under 20 but could make handy runs.
Of those only Johnson and Gillespie have test centuries although Starc and Warne both have 99s.

If Cummins continues to improve and can make a couple of centuries then he would be an all rounder.

Agree. This is gross clutching at straws. A silly policy by CA. They stuck with Mitch Marsh for so long as they hoped he would develop into a genuine all rounder.. like our last the great Keith "Nugget" Miller.  For some unknown reason to us all.. Mitch has never blossomed. I believe his main problem is between the ears. He certainly has the talent to do something similar to Miller. Is it something in the Marsh DNA that prevents them reaching their full potential?  Even Swampy fell short of what many of us believed he could achieve.

Stoinis might be about getting him in the squad with the view of taking him as a pace bowling batting allrounder to the Ashes.

Pace bowling all rounder? The bloke averages FC @40 with the ball.  Not much better than Mitch Marsh averaged at Test level. I should imagine Stoinis" batting would provide greater impact than his bowling in the Ashes. Still.. even my old mother in law can swing the Dukes... so Stoinis should be able to.

Also looks as tho Mr Teflon Mitch Starc has survived the axe. He can thank his lucky stars that there is no leftie putting pressure on in red ball cricket to challenge him.. such is CA's ludicrous policy of only playing white ball cricket during the Test summer. Behrendorff  has gone down with yet another injury I am hearing. So we have to continue with a dud.

There is still a bit more to it, though. Sam Curran is a horrid bowler outside swinging conditions. Even in swinging conditions he sprays it. But he has the wrist position to get that Dukes to talk and hoop around when new and while he leaks runs, he becomes a huge wicket taking threat. 

The Dukes is far more swing friendly that the Kook - but the fundamentals of required wrist positioning remain the same. Even a pie chucker has to know how to swing a ball, to get the Dukes to swing on demand. Else its just random luck, and the odd ball goes, but not consistently, which means that odd ball is missing the outside edge by a mile...

Has Stoinis had results with the Dukes in FC in Australia? Does he know how to swing a ball?

Good points Paddles. Are there stats for each of the Shield parts? That would sure tell a story. Hard to say re Stoinis ..played 6 matches last  summer. only 9 wkts at a hi average. And CA obviously wants him for England as looks like they have discarded Mitch Marsh who has a decent England Test record..

I can tell you one bloke who benefits from the Dukes.. Canberran leftie Nick Winter. I want he and Dan Worrall seriously considered for an Ashes berth. Sayers and those two are our three specialist swing bowlers. Sayers seems to have lost favor with selectors. Why pick a bloke and never play him? I can never see the sense in that. Same is happening to Ashton Agar. 

This site is becoming a graveyard between Tests. I expect most of you work. 

Oh well - here is a trivia question for you...

Who took a hat trick in a 5 wicket bag in their last intl before being dropped?

white or red ball?

Does it matter?

I don't work full time.

I'm a semi-retired teacher.

  I worked 15 days last year and about 30- 40 the year before. 

I am retired, but do not have Foxtel as per the majority of Australians, so do not comment on those games
not on free to air. 
This micky mouse test series, with the selectors not using same to blood new talent is ridiculous.
I have given up on the selectors and this series as it just gets too frustrating.
The only words of wisdom coming from anyone in the media is as mentioned Shane Warne.
The sooner he is given a place in CA, the sooner we may get some modern constructive thinking
in the game.

Then you are getting your cricket fix via 7?  I am also retired. My son purchased me a new LCD tv but go figure it only shows half a picture on Foxtel  so i chop and change between Foxtel and 7.. When the two Mikes.. Hussey and Vaughan are comming on Fox I  tune in.. then back to 7. 

Burns  and harris have to show that they can see off the new ball before playing any risky shots.

I cursed Harris.. This now is a big chance for Burns to steal Harris' Ashes spot.

Get him to sort the settings for you...

You come across this problem mate? I do prefer the Fox coverage to be honest.

Fox is so much better than 7 , Baggers.

I'm a keen football follower as well.

So Fox is worth having, being interested in cricket too.

  I love hearing other people use the phrase, 'Mickey Mouse'!

Unchanged 11 for Australia, Marcus Stoinis is not playing. Hard me worried there, but sanity prevailed and he can go back to fake cricket.

I was worried about  Stoinis too, as I much prefer Michaeil Neser as the pace bowling all rounder. Stoinis is another stupid selection based on Mickey Mouse performances, not red or pink ball cricket.

My thoughts from watching players live at Bellerive have been confirmed by Shame Warne. He calls  for the inclusion of Pucovski and Riley Meredith in today's Test team, dropping Starc. 

He thinks it is best to blood young players at this time, not the future in a tough overseas Ashes scenario. Warne thinks Pucocvski is the best batting prospect we have, and, Meredith will be playing for Australia in all forms of cricket within a year.

He was very impressed with Richardson's debut too.

I am 100% with Warne. Pure nonsense to not changing a winning side. This test is the perfect time and place to debut Pucovski..

If Paine finally wins a toss.. makes sense with the overcast over Manuka.. to bowl first. 

Many pundits have commented on the fine job Paine is doing as  combined skipper/keeper. The man himself says he is thriving on it. He says that little has changed from his days as keeper only with his involvement in the mechanics of a game.. engaging with bowlers, and team mates. 

My thoughts from watching players live at Bellerive have been confirmed by Shame Warne. He calls  for the inclusion of Pucovski and Riley Meredith in today's Test team, dropping Starc. 

DC Is Warne auditioning to be our next chairman of selectors.? I have never seen him this outspoken over selections. Is it time to bid adieu to our chairman of selectors.. Hohns

Tim Paine finally wins a toss and is batting. Is this wise with the overcast and the ball likely to swing in the first session. Will certainly be a test for a couple of our blokes who are not blessed with the most solid of techniques.

Paine has the most dignity, poise and media acumen as a captain since Mark Taylor.

He exceeds Waugh, Ponting, Clarke and Smith  by some margin.  The middle two were tantrum throwers when the team was losing. Waugh was described as selfish and callous by his former team-mates ( Warne and Michael Slater), whilst Smith was immature, weak by ignoring ball tampering, and always looked uptight in the field and upset with his team-mates.

Those calling for Smith to replace Paine must be deluded! 

Paine is leading the team from the front. He  was identified a long time ago for this role by national selectors, despite the idiocy  of Tasmanian Shield selectors.

Will never agree DC, the sooner he is gone as captain the better.
If he any nouse at all he would regonise this and step down.

Seems you are the only one bagging Tim Paine. Ex players and comms having nothing but praise for the job he is doing. As does his coach. No way is he stepping down. Says he is thriving on the added responsibility. His only complaint is he needs to crash between matches due to the mental strain. Says his wife is not happy.

I doubt this. He is putting away millions right now as Aus captain when he looked set to retire soon before his call up. Had a job lined up at Kookaburra and all. She would be elated with this situation. A year or two more of sacrifice, and they're more than set up for life...

https://www.sportingnews.com/au/cricket/news/tim-paine-reveals-just-how-close-he-was-to-retirement-cricket-australia-india-wicketkeeper/1xfzmjirvs5bt16id762cmcgnw

Good on him. He is a talented cricketer so deserves the rewards.. albeit a touch over the top.. like all Aussie cricket salaries

Yes & I will be proved correct.
What has he won - 1 test against India at the WACA, that India lost due to poor selection - as far as I am concerned an unconvincing win.
1 win against Sri Lanka - As I said my Aussie Terrier Scruf could captain against them & still win.
Whilst he is acknowledged as a good gloves man, does anyone in their right mind think he would still be there if he wasn't captain.
Against quality opposition he will not win & under him we will loose the Ashes.

In hindsight Khawaja should have sat this one out but still been on the plane to the ashes. Either Pucovski or Stoinis could have played. And would have pushes Patterson up the order. 

Im also incredibly worried about Harris. He cant convert starts and has some glaring weaknesses in his game. 

On the selectors;
We have Trevor Hons, Creg Chappell & Justin Langer.
These are all old fashioned thinkers of the game & Langer has stated outright he goes in to back his players
(by this he is saying the current team & especially if it wins, he will not change same).
So we have the perennial question, why is the coach a selector?
I have had a big question mark over Langer & at the moment he is not doing anything to give me encouragement.
He should not be a selector, full stop & needs to concentrate on the team he needs to win the ashes.
My fear is, if Langer doesn't change his thinking, the Ashes are lost before we even get there. 

The next question is why do we have so few selectors & what is the new CA board doing about it, 
It seems as if nothing has changed from CA & it's business as usual - time for the CEO to stand up & actually
do something, to date he has talked a lot but done b. all.

It has been suggested by others that  there needs to be a selector from every state involved in the national game.
This has huge merit, but would never be agreed to by Hons as it weakens his position.
Money for these selectors is quite simple, when you look at the players on contract not being played.
Convert these monies into modern thinking selectors such as Shane Warne & we may get somewhere.

Cricket has become a modern day sport with modern day technology, however the thinking from CA & the selectors
is still from a time 20 years ago. The idea of an unchanged team is gone, cricket will become like other sports
where players are included based on performance and requirements for each test.
Players themselves have to change their thinking and this is where the coach is involved - not as a selector.
Langer does not think like this, his attitude 'you've had 2 bad games but we will stick with you until you come good"
Bad 2 games = out & someone else comes in, no other sport in Australia would tolerate bad performances for as long as
cricket does.
Unfortunately the only way it can be changed is by CA = nothing will happen.

Marnus gone too. Another one that should be worried about the ashes but selectors seem to love him and that 80 last game probably booked his ticket

What has happened to foot work in batting.
3 down, no footwork, all reaching for the ball.
What is Langer doing about this, he has a batting coach under him,
get another one or get involved, this is the head coaches job to sort out & he is failing.

I thought Langer was a specialist batting coach too, JJ.

Why is Marnus batting 4 anyway, that should be Patterson's spot.

Who even knows? Hes an odd enough selection at 6 but selectors see a top order player for some reason

Is burns playing well enough to make Ashes selection over Harris?
He has the same problem of playing outside of his footwork & reaching for the ball.

5th highest shield run scorer with 472 runs at 47. Last season 7th highest last season with 725 runs at 56. So hes the form opener in shield cricket. 

Agree.

I would have thought that Patterson would have batted at 4 and Labuchagne at 6 too.

3-83 is another poor start for Australia.

Good cut from Burns after being dropped in slips. He has reached the pass mark of 40 runs.

Head hits 40 too. Hes really got to cash in on all these starts. I had him down as a future test captain but his selection seemed a bit premature. A 100 here though would change things

It would have been better for Head to have come in with 4 established, experienced Test  batters in the line up.

Burns with the first hundred of the summer. Head on 93* too

Head fills his boots too

Great innings from both, Head playing some lovely shots after the 100 now

Inflated figures against the weakest bowling attack you will ever face in test cricket,
plus both gave chances that would have been taken by  most test teams.

77 runs the past 10 overs

This is an extremely inexperienced attack. Sri Lanka's attack was okay at best with their three best fast bowlers, now it is just sub test standard. Players who fail against this attack should have their place in the team questioned. 

Good to see Burns and Head get centuries but they really should be scoring runs. Getting a bit worried about Harris now, thought he would be doing better, going to struggle to hold his place in the team if Warner comes back or Renshaw finds form in Shield cricket. 

Khawaja has a bit going on outside of cricket but he was supposed to be the player this side was built around and he has not delivered. 

Head should be batting 4 in my opinion.

Maybe this is why  his performances have suffered?

reminds me of oz in melbourne

if you field well your bowling looks good
if you field badly your bowling sux

also the last two batting performances massively affect how the Sri Lankans will bowl

 So true.