I love 'em, I like the idea of them,  I want one.  I wish we'd get on with it.

Here's a great youtube series by none other than 'Kryten' from Red Dwarf.  

https://www.youtube.com/user/fullychargedshow 

Me too! 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2017/09/the-dark-side-of-electric-cars-exploitative-labor-practices/

Mate lets not buy clothes because in Cambodia workers are exploited.  There's shit practices no doubt but that's something that can be fixed and it doesn't take away from the fact these cars are the future.

https://www.esdnews.com.au/shell-workers-facing-shocking-exploitation-report-says/

http://www.industriall-union.org/shells-hidden-shame-contract-workers-on-the-poverty-line-in-nigeria

Also.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_the_petroleum_industry

Oh sorry, I also forgot to mention:

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/aug/24/nickel-mining-hidden-environmental-cost-electric-cars-batteries

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/tibetans-in-anguish-as-chinese-mines-pollute-their-sacred-grasslands/2016/12/25/bb6aad06-63bc-11e6-b4d8-33e931b5a26d_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.b27e31f0861f

Lithium projects in Bolivia plan to displace 10's of thousands of people and cause environmental disaster to the region. 

Lithium is a finite resource in limited supply. How are you going to electrify the entire world's transport off that? Not possible. 

No safe way to recycle lithium-ion batteries - https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/aug/10/electric-cars-big-battery-waste-problem-lithium-recycling

Re: Fine Particle Emissions - Overall, it appears that EVs do not result in significant reductions of PM and therefore cannot be considered the single solution to urban air pollution. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780128117705000121

I could go on and on.....but yeah keep living in your Utopia that EV's are a silver bullet. 

Hahaha.  Your article literally quotes projects they're undertaking to recycle these batteries.

Besides that did you know that oil is a 'FINITE' resource also?

But in case you can't read. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-06-27/where-3-million-electric-vehicle-batteries-will-go-when-they-retire

https://reneweconomy.com.au/battery-recycling-generate-billion-dollar-industry-australia-push-prices-62944/


But there are literally thousands of examples of oil pollution and environmental degradation over the last 100 years.  I'm happy to put those up over the extraction of lithium every single day of the week. 

Australia has some of the biggest untapped rare earth metal deposits in the world.  This is a massive opportunity for us.

No one said they're a silver bullet for all of the world's ills.

Did you know when computers where first invented they were the size of a house?  How about mobile phones?

A commercially made electric car has been around for about a decade.  Do you actually think that that this is the zenith of their technological advancement?

I mean seriously.  Did you buy the first iphone and think to yourself 'well this is as good as it's ever going to get.'


What I don't get about this from a Liberal party point of view is this could virtually uncouple Australia from the reliance of the Middle East as a supplier of our transportation fuels.  And yet for some weird  reason conservatives think being beholden to medieval cartels that have us by the balls should a war start or they decide to curtail production is a good thing.

It's no coincidence that the oil price per barrel has remained static or even trended downwards for the last few years after tracking upwards for the years before it.  They know that should the oil price rise excessively that will just push the inevitable adoption of EV's forward at an even faster rate.

The ICE will never die and there will always be a market for them but the facts are they are yesterdays technology and are going the way of the dodo.. 

Probably should read what you're citing before quoting it as proof of anything.

From the comments section of that paper.  Link here.  https://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/04/20160418-pm10.html


Bob Wilson: The study was paid for by the co-author himself, Peter Achten, an inventor and proponent of hydraulic hybrid technology which he wants to promote over electric vehicle / electric hybrid tech. The 1st listed author is a summer intern college student from Edinburgh) he hired to help withe the study. The selection of vehicles was carefully made (or excluded) to ensure it would show that EVs weigh significantly more than ICEs, such as the Honda Fit EV, which was a short run conversion car already out of production when the study was conducted. In short, not science, rather propaganda being used to defame one product (EVs) in hopes that would give an opening for another (the author's).

and

And how Peter Achten was able to fool the media and public in to believing, as the post and so many articles stated, this was a"study by a team from the University of Edinburgh"

"The authors regret that as Victor Timmers did not carry out the research under the auspices of the University of Edinburgh, nor in collaboration or consultation with any personnel at the University of Edinburgh, the affiliation of “University of Edinburgh” has now been removed from this work at the request of the Institution. In addition, subsequent to the publication of the Paper, Victor Timmers has disclosed a potential Conflict of Interest with regard to the work, namely: “non-financial support from Innas B.V, during the conduct of the study”.
The authors would like to apologise for any inconvenience caused."
https://ac.els-cdn.com/S1352231016308548/1-s2.0-S1352231016308548-main.pdf?_tid=3a086cc4-c894-11e7-ba7f-0000aab0f26&acdnat=1510592652_808628a316eb6e90b9766d243123220d 

And this pearler of a observation;

Am I reading this correctly: They're counting "resuspension" of particles against EVs? Does that truly mean to resuspend or kick up dust and particulates left on the road by other vehicles? ....so...they're blaming EVs for SH*T left behind by other vehicles?

Do they also blame wind for this? Forget nukes, the new chant is "NO WIND! NO WIND! NO WIND!!!" LMAO!!!

This "resuspension" accounts for 75.5% of the "Total PM" they attribute to EVs. So ICE vehicles dump shyt on the road, and it's the EV's fault for rolling through it!!! LMMFAO!!!

I believe this is one of the most irresponsible and MORONIC studies I've seen in years.

They also ignore the fact that most EVs use harder compounds to reduce rolling resistance which reduces particulate coming from their own tire wear. But that's a tiny fraction of the total miss on this study so who really cares.


Apology from author here.  https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1352231016308548

So I take it you don't use anything else that uses batteries or any other product that uses these materials, or it's just EVs that are bad?

You're straw-manning my argument(s). 

Yes, of course, I use products with battery technology and I am pro-EV (in principle). For the record, I don't even vote liberal and I have a Masters in Energy Systems which primarily deals with sustainable supply-side energy. So I have a fair bit of skin in the game. 

My issue is with people that believe EV's are the solution to our emissions problem. Transportation accounts for 14% of global emissions according to the EPA.

Even if you were to transition 1:1 from ICE to EV (which is impossible on current technology) you will be cutting global emissions by a mere fraction. The negative externalities of replacing ICE with EV 1:1 cannot be ignored. 

It's laughable how religious some of you folks are about EV's and when someone brings up the negative side to EV's you get branded a liberal, climate change denier or some other trope. People who study this area every day know that EV's are far from perfect.