Australian General Cricket Discussion


Australian General Cricket Discussion

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Decentric
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It seems time to create this thread. 

Responding to Flyslip’s comment that Mitch Marsh is a no rounder, I’ve seen him bowl some excellent spells in Test cricket and WA in the Shield at Bellerive Oval. 

His figures look worse than I thought they would be. 

His batting is the issue. Ian, from the TCA, a former Tas VC and state selector and superb analyst, thinks his feet move too slowly. 
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Responding to Baggers asking about Cameron Green, Stoinis and Mitch M scenario with WA, is that when all are fit they are all good enough for Shield cricket. 

Can WA find space for all three in the team? 

They are all pace bowling all rounders. 
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Decentric - 14 Jan 2020 5:46 PM
It seems time to create this thread. 

Responding to Flyslip’s comment that Mitch Marsh is a no rounder, I’ve seen him bowl some excellent spells in Test cricket and WA in the Shield at Bellerive Oval. 

His figures look worse than I thought they would be. 

His batting is the issue. Ian, from the TCA, a former Tas VC and state selector and superb analyst, thinks his feet move too slowly. 

Responding to Flyslip’s comment that Mitch Marsh is a no rounder, I’ve seen him bowl some excellent spells in Test cricket and WA in the Shield at Bellerive Oval.

So have I thus my post in response to f/s. Problem is DC he isnt given sufficient of these spells to impress. Mostly as a fourth or even fifth change man with an old ball and against set batsmen. I tell you something I'd love to see him with the new ball on either the Perth deck or the Gabba. Then we will see if he is only a mediocre trundler. Yes DC his footwork is his main problem. He is a big unit and bats like one. I use to say he looked like a robot at the crease. Also he tends to use hard hands in defense.
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Decentric - 14 Jan 2020 5:50 PM
Responding to Baggers asking about Cameron Green, Stoinis and Mitch M scenario with WA, is that when all are fit they are all good enough for Shield cricket. 

Can WA find space for all three in the team? 

They are all pace bowling all rounders. 

Decentric - 14 Jan 2020 5:50 PM
Responding to Baggers asking about Cameron Green, Stoinis and Mitch M scenario with WA, is that when all are fit they are all good enough for Shield cricket. 

Can WA find space for all three in the team? 

They are all pace bowling all rounders. 

Stoinis is the weak link so called all rounder here. Marsh next and Green the real deal once he gets his body into gear. Has been having some stress back trouble. like many young underdeveloped bowlers.


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Decentric - 14 Jan 2020 5:46 PM
It seems time to create this thread. 

Responding to Flyslip’s comment that Mitch Marsh is a no rounder, I’ve seen him bowl some excellent spells in Test cricket and WA in the Shield at Bellerive Oval. 

His figures look worse than I thought they would be. 

His batting is the issue. Ian, from the TCA, a former Tas VC and state selector and superb analyst, thinks his feet move too slowly. 

Were you aware we did not have a general discussion thread DC.

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baggygreenmania - 14 Jan 2020 6:20 PM
Decentric - 14 Jan 2020 5:46 PM

Were you aware we did not have a general discussion thread DC.

I looked for pages and pages and the only one was for International Cricket General Discussion. 

I thought Aus General Discussion was different. 

If there is another Aus Gen Discuss, this one can be closed. 
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baggygreenmania - 14 Jan 2020 6:11 PM
Decentric - 14 Jan 2020 5:46 PM

Responding to Flyslip’s comment that Mitch Marsh is a no rounder, I’ve seen him bowl some excellent spells in Test cricket and WA in the Shield at Bellerive Oval.

So have I thus my post in response to f/s. Problem is DC he isnt given sufficient of these spells to impress. Mostly as a fourth or even fifth change man with an old ball and against set batsmen. I tell you something I'd love to see him with the new ball on either the Perth deck or the Gabba. Then we will see if he is only a mediocre trundler. Yes DC his footwork is his main problem. He is a big unit and bats like one. I use to say he looked like a robot at the crease. Also he tends to use hard hands in defense.

Last year in the Shield in two innings for WA where he took 3 wickets in each innings, along with Neser and Copeland’s efforts, and Meredith’s express thunderbolts, Mitch Marsh performed some of the best pace bowling at Bellerive in the last two Shield seasons. 

His batting has looked a little more convincing at Shield level than Tests where he faces higher calibre bowling. 
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If Marsh is as good with the ball as you fellas say, he's kept it well hidden in test matches which is really where he has been appraised (surely 32 matches is enough?). He must also be getting poor advice and should go all out to try and stake his claim as a fast bowler, as that's about the only way he'll ever become a regular. That would be more realistic because as a batsman, he would make a reasonable no.8.

In the end it doesn't matter what he "shoulda, coulda, woulda" done, as much as how he has done the job he's been picked for. He isn't taking the ball earlier because we already have bowlers for that, he hasn't been selected to do that because there are others better than him. He has been picked as a batsmen and 5th bowling option yet has generally failed with the bat and but for a few matches in England, has generally been underwhelming with the ball (economy rate is as important as wickets for Marsh).

If they have to pick an "allrounder" for some unknown reason, they would be better off giving Stoinis a go. While he doesn't inspire confidence either, at least we don't know he is a failure as yet, it would be giving someone else a go at it and I doubt he would be any worse.

Or preferably just forget about allrounders until we find one who deserves a place. 
Edited
6 Months Ago by flyslip
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Decentric - 14 Jan 2020 6:54 PM
baggygreenmania - 14 Jan 2020 6:20 PM

I looked for pages and pages and the only one was for International Cricket General Discussion. 

I thought Aus General Discussion was different. 

If there is another Aus Gen Discuss, this one can be closed. 

I looked.. couldnt see one. 
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flyslip - 14 Jan 2020 7:58 PM
If Marsh is as good with the ball as you fellas say, he's kept it well hidden in test matches which is really where he has been appraised (surely 32 matches is enough?). He must also be getting poor advice and should go all out to try and stake his claim as a fast bowler, as that's about the only way he'll ever become a regular. That would be more realistic because as a batsman, he would make a reasonable no.8.

In the end it doesn't matter what he "shoulda, coulda, woulda" done, as much as how he has done the job he's been picked for. He isn't taking the ball earlier because we already have bowlers for that, he hasn't been selected to do that because there are others better than him. He has been picked as a batsmen and 5th bowling option yet has generally failed with the bat and but for a few matches in England, has generally been underwhelming with the ball (economy rate is as important as wickets for Marsh).

If they have to pick an "allrounder" for some unknown reason, they would be better off giving Stoinis a go. While he doesn't inspire confidence either, at least we don't know he is a failure as yet, it would be giving someone else a go at it and I doubt he would be any worse.

Or preferably just forget about allrounders until we find one who deserves a place. 

I have a feeling I’ve never seen Stoinis play Shield in Tas, because he hasn’t been selected. 

Another issue with Marsh, with his big frame he struggles to bowl for sustained periods without injury over a few months st a time. 
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Also,  Marsh has been clicked at 140kph. 
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Decentric - 14 Jan 2020 11:16 PM
Also,  Marsh has been clicked at 140kph. 

Clocked!
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Decentric - 14 Jan 2020 11:16 PM
Decentric - 14 Jan 2020 11:16 PM

Clocked!

Even faster DC. Mitch's powerful arm can hurl a ball at almost express pace when he puts his mind to it. But CA only wants him to bowl at mid 130s to tie down an end while the strike men take a spell. I wonder if he will be picked in the Australia A side to take on the England Lions.. or is CA done with him?
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baggygreenmania - 17 Jan 2020 9:36 AM
Decentric - 14 Jan 2020 11:16 PM

Even faster DC. Mitch's powerful arm can hurl a ball at almost express pace when he puts his mind to it. But CA only wants him to bowl at mid 130s to tie down an end while the strike men take a spell. I wonder if he will be picked in the Australia A side to take on the England Lions.. or is CA done with him?

It is a good question, Baggers? 

Also at a Shield game, a spectator who is a friend of Marsh’s, said he stupidly punched a hole in a wall after a frustrating dismissal. This incurred a suspension. The friend said he is really feeling pressure to perform. 

He has suffered a perception from the public that he and Shaun have been given too many chances at Test level that they haven’t deserved. 

To have have an all rounder who has bowled even faster than 140kph, is a luxury. A bit like Watto though, Marsh seems injury prone. 
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Decentric - 17 Jan 2020 10:42 AM
baggygreenmania - 17 Jan 2020 9:36 AM

It is a good question, Baggers? 

Also at a Shield game, a spectator who is a friend of Marsh’s, said he stupidly punched a hole in a wall after a frustrating dismissal. This incurred a suspension. The friend said he is really feeling pressure to perform. 

He has suffered a perception from the public that he and Shaun have been given too many chances at Test level that they haven’t deserved. 

To have have an all rounder who has bowled even faster than 140kph, is a luxury. A bit like Watto though, Marsh seems injury prone. 

He did punch a hole in the wall.. it was common knowledge that was the reason he missed possible Test selection this summer. Frustration at not turning a well compiled 50 into a century was his reason. I also put some of the blame on the mainstream media and social media that have really laid into him and his brother.
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Australia v india has been an entertaining ODI series to watch. Currently 1-1 with the decider on Sunday
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grazorblade - 18 Jan 2020 5:25 AM
Australia v india has been an entertaining ODI series to watch. Currently 1-1 with the decider on Sunday

Take a squizz at our next gen on the Under 19 thread.
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grazorblade - 18 Jan 2020 5:25 AM
Australia v india has been an entertaining ODI series to watch. Currently 1-1 with the decider on Sunday

We lost the decider as soon as they replaced Kane Richardson. The first 2 games he did well 4/116 and a 24* with the bat.

Up to that point Starc had taken 3/134 and 6 with the bat in the first two games last night 0/66 and 0 
Up to that point Cummins had taken 2/97 and 0 runs in the first two games and last night 0/64 off 7 overs and 0

Last night our 3 frontline bowlers bowled 25 overs and gave away 185 runs and only got 1 consolation wicket that of Kohli  in the 46 over when the game was over. Too much work for Agar, Zampa and part timers to do and only 100 runs to play with.

Has anyone else noticed how poorly Cummins is playing this year with the bat, for someone who was being regarded in the media as this potential great all-rounder, so much so he went to CA demanding longer term contracts.

Cummins in ODI's 2019- present
bat 19 matches 68 runs @ 6.18 (ranked 318 in the world batting)
ball 19 matches 33 wickets @ 25.18 (ranked 70 in the world bowling)

In tests Cummins from 13 tests he averaged 10 with the bat which is worse than Lyon and Hazlewood

In comparison In tests Starc averaged 38 with the bat last year which is higher than Tim Paine and M Wade, took 46 wickets @ 20.5 Cummins av was 20 with the ball.
In ODI's 2019-present
Bat 13 matches 74 @ 9.25
Ball 13 matches 30 wickets @ 23.4

Those are probably the reasons why Starc is in both test and ODI ICC teams
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MikeR - 20 Jan 2020 7:13 AM
grazorblade - 18 Jan 2020 5:25 AM

We lost the decider as soon as they replaced Kane Richardson. The first 2 games he did well 4/116 and a 24* with the bat.

Up to that point Starc had taken 3/134 and 6 with the bat in the first two games last night 0/66 and 0 
Up to that point Cummins had taken 2/97 and 0 runs in the first two games and last night 0/64 off 7 overs and 0

Last night our 3 frontline bowlers bowled 25 overs and gave away 185 runs and only got 1 consolation wicket that of Kohli  in the 46 over when the game was over. Too much work for Agar, Zampa and part timers to do and only 100 runs to play with.

Has anyone else noticed how poorly Cummins is playing this year with the bat, for someone who was being regarded in the media as this potential great all-rounder, so much so he went to CA demanding longer term contracts.

Cummins in ODI's 2019- present
bat 19 matches 68 runs @ 6.18 (ranked 318 in the world batting)
ball 19 matches 33 wickets @ 25.18 (ranked 70 in the world bowling)

In tests Cummins from 13 tests he averaged 10 with the bat which is worse than Lyon and Hazlewood

In comparison In tests Starc averaged 38 with the bat last year which is higher than Tim Paine and M Wade, took 46 wickets @ 20.5 Cummins av was 20 with the ball.
In ODI's 2019-present
Bat 13 matches 74 @ 9.25
Ball 13 matches 30 wickets @ 23.4

Those are probably the reasons why Starc is in both test and ODI ICC teams

 Nongs CA.. Richardson is a specialist white ball bowler. Same as Tye and Coulter-Nile. Jyhe Richardson is next in line. Will play all formats. Yes odd that Cummins contributions with the bat have been so paltry. Not sure that he went to CA for a long term contract proposal because of his batting. He knows he is not all round standard with the bat. I do have to say tho he is more correct than a lot of other bowlers.
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So next off to South Africa for another pointless ODI series. Is there any T20s thrown in. At least they are not pointless with the WC later this year.

Will CA make changes for SA?  Turner experiment is done and dusted. How many times has he been bowled or LB this summer. Surely some new blood is now needed not rehashing veteran failures like Stoinis and Maxwell. CA needs to be looking ahead to the T20 WC ..  Heazlett, McDermott, Philippe, Weatherald, J Richardson, Steketee and Coulter-Nile have to be in the frame if changes are made.
Edited
6 Months Ago by baggygreenmania
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baggygreenmania - 21 Jan 2020 10:21 AM
So next off to South Africa for another pointless ODI series.

I don't mind so much, it's simply a bit of entertainment. The only thing I don't like about modern odi's is the way they prepare the wickets. It was far more enjoyable back in the day when 240 was a defendable score and bowling was more than just a way of getting the ball into play.

Will CA make changes for SA?  Turner experiment is done and dusted. How many times has he been bowled or LB this summer. Surely some new blood is now needed not rehashing veteran failures like Stoinis and Maxwell.

Agree re Stoinis and Maxwell. Promised much, delivered very little. Turner is probably a tad unlucky, has been out of form this year aparrently and seems he was picked on his form last time we toured India. Still. Surely M Marsh has to get back into the odi team at some stage?
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Decentric - 17 Jan 2020 10:42 AM
baggygreenmania - 17 Jan 2020 9:36 AM

He has suffered a perception from the public that he and Shaun have been given too many chances at Test level that they haven’t deserved. 

I think they have been given enough chances (Shaun Marsh has been more deserving of the two IMO). M Marsh still has an outside chance of returning yet that 25 batting average would need to lift considerably. I don't know why anyone would hold it against them personally though, both seem like nice young blokes. Some people take cricket too seriously.

To have have an all rounder who has bowled even faster than 140kph, is a luxury. A bit like Watto though, Marsh seems injury prone. 

Watto was an all rounder and a very good one. Never understood the hate. Quite an exaggeration to call M Marsh an all rounder at test cricket level.


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ps. I should clarify the above refers to test cricket.
M Marsh surely has to return to the odi team at some stage.
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Going to make a controversial call here lol. I don't think Cummins is in our best odi 11 and deserves a break rather than going to SA. He's an exceptional test bowler (the best we have had for a while), but pace and seam aren't going to get the job done on modern odi pitches that generally give these type of bowlers nothing. Would far prefer an accurate trundler who can also score a few runs. Sadly, odi bowling is now far more about bowling defensively on ridiculous pitches. To the detriment of the game IMO. Probably why younger fans can't understand why I think Viv Richards is still the greatest odi batsman.
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flyslip - 22 Jan 2020 8:16 PM
Going to make a controversial call here lol. I don't think Cummins is in our best odi 11 and deserves a break rather than going to SA. He's an exceptional test bowler (the best we have had for a while), but pace and seam aren't going to get the job done on modern odi pitches that generally give these type of bowlers nothing. Would far prefer an accurate trundler who can also score a few runs. Sadly, odi bowling is now far more about bowling defensively on ridiculous pitches. To the detriment of the game IMO. Probably why younger fans can't understand why I think Viv Richards is still the greatest odi batsman.

I have said the same. Great red ball bowler. We need specialist white ball bowlers for white ball cricket. Pommies have done it successfully. So our go Cummins and Hazlewood ..holding onto Starc even tho his WC white ball returns have been mediocre.. his overall ODIs are decent. Other specialists are Kane Richardson, Coulter-Nile, Andrew Tye while I wanna see Jhye Richardson and Nathan Ellis come into the picture with a view to the next ODI WC.
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Some Tas batters are quietly saying it is really difficult for batters these days, because of the cricket an analysts scrutinising every detail of their technique, flaws and weaknesses.

They are constantly having to play most balls to their weakest shots. This is much more so than in past epochs, before these flash computer programs analysed  every batter to the nth degree.
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Decentric - 18 Feb 2020 9:22 AM
Some Tas batters are quietly saying it is really difficult for batters these days, because of the cricket an analysts scrutinising every detail of their technique, flaws and weaknesses.

They are constantly having to play most balls to their weakest shots. This is much more so than in past epochs, before these flash computer programs analysed  every batter to the nth degree.

They are constantly having to play most balls to their weakest shots.

Why? Scrutiny and analysis has to be a benefit. It shows a batman when and if he needs to improve his technique. Surely this is a good thing for his development. 
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baggygreenmania - 18 Feb 2020 10:27 AM
Decentric - 18 Feb 2020 9:22 AM

They are constantly having to play most balls to their weakest shots.

Why? Scrutiny and analysis has to be a benefit. It shows a batman when and if he needs to improve his technique. Surely this is a good thing for his development. 

They are saying the computer programs are just too good.
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