Coronavirus Megathread


Coronavirus Megathread

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dirk vanadidas
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cesspit - 2 Dec 2021 12:32 PM
we do have a pandemic of the unvaxed ...the hospitals are full of unvaxed

the current quarantine arrangement isn't working, we need those camps ASAP

please define unvaxxed , is it 2 3 or 4 jabs with anothert 2 in the pipeline to future proof the vaccine

Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club

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sanity prevails in Germany....


Germany imposes restrictions on unvaccinated, jabs obligatory from February


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dirkvanadidas - 2 Dec 2021 11:56 PM
cesspit - 2 Dec 2021 12:32 PM

please define unvaxxed , is it 2 3 or 4 jabs with anothert 2 in the pipeline to future proof the vaccine

To define "unvaxxed" let's see the definition given by the American CDC.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated.html

which states:

"In general, people are considered fully vaccinated:
    • "2 weeks after their second dose in a 2-dose series, such as the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines, or"
    • "2 weeks after a single-dose vaccine, such as Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen vaccine"

Do you see what this means? Dr Peter McCullough says that most deaths and side effects happen within 2 weeks of the jab. So if the CDC defines the 2 weeks after the jab as "un-vaccinated", it allows the CDC to say that the deaths that occur in this crucial 2 week-window consist of un-vaccinated people dying.

On this website, at the 2nd graph at the bottom of the page, you can see that the vast majority of deaths from vaccines occur inside 2 weeks.

https://openvaers.com/covid-data



Edited
4 Years Ago by johnsmith
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dirkvanadidas - 2 Dec 2021 11:56 PM
cesspit - 2 Dec 2021 12:32 PM

please define unvaxxed , is it 2 3 or 4 jabs with anothert 2 in the pipeline to future proof the vaccine

vaxed is primary doses + booster when its due

primary doses are 2 or 3 

Sajid Javid explains it eloquently here
https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1465346793793802253?s=20

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November 30, 2021, Dr. Harvey Risch, professor of epidemiology at the Yale School of Public Health and Yale School of Medicine. He says therapeutics, including hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin, can be highly effective against COVID when they are deployed early on and in combination with different medications.

In the interview, Dr. Risch criticized the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for warning against hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine use to treat COVID-19 and revoking the emergency use authorization (EUA) for hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/dr-harvey-risch-hydroxychloroquine-ivermectin-and-other-therapeutics-highly-effective-in-early-covid-treatment_4131804.html


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johnsmith - 3 Dec 2021 1:54 AM
November 30, 2021, Dr. Harvey Risch, professor of epidemiology at the Yale School of Public Health and Yale School of Medicine. He says therapeutics, including hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin, can be highly effective against COVID when they are deployed early on and in combination with different medications.

In the interview, Dr. Risch criticized the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for warning against hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine use to treat COVID-19 and revoking the emergency use authorization (EUA) for hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/dr-harvey-risch-hydroxychloroquine-ivermectin-and-other-therapeutics-highly-effective-in-early-covid-treatment_4131804.html


A - suddenly credentials matter, why not listen to 99% of others with credentials
B - Have a close read to what this actually says ffs 'Can be' 'with different medications'. Wow, what a ringing endorsement,

FFS, even for a completely biased nutjob mag, they don't even sell it well.


 
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tsf - 3 Dec 2021 9:33 AM
johnsmith - 3 Dec 2021 1:54 AM

A - suddenly credentials matter, why not listen to 99% of others with credentials
B - Have a close read to what this actually says ffs 'Can be' 'with different medications'. Wow, what a ringing endorsement,

FFS, even for a completely biased nutjob mag, they don't even sell it well.


 

wow, just 10 minutes of reading about him is hilarious. 
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Jim nails it in this video

https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1465796248687063046?s=20
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FwEeDuMb nutjobs

Image


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Went to the emergency dept at the hospital last night and was sitting there when this sheila (the daughter and 24 hr carer) walks in pushing her mum (well over 70) in a wheelchair. (Indigenous at a guess. Only saying this because I don't want anyone going 'oh it's just some reffo that has only just lobbed in town so who cares'). Her mum didn't speak english and was obviously dazed and confused. They couldn't take the lady into the triage thingo because, surprise, surprise, the daughter is unvaxxed.

I heard all of this because she couldn't go in and they conducted the initial consult about 2m from where I was sitting. The daughter blew up and full credit to the poor nurse who had to patiently explain that she was threat to other patients because she wasn't vaccinated. In the end the mum got seen to, no idea how they communicated with her, and the stupid, stupid (and selfish) woman had to sit outside fretting.

Took all my strength to not lean over and say 'unvaxxed eh, how's that working out for you'. Absolute moron.

Spoke to the bloke on the way out who takes your details and he said every single day it's some sort of variation on that. He's over it. Sometimes he fires up, sometimes he just grins and bears these idiots.

The nurse that saw me was furious. I joked that I was fully 5G compliant and she told she was right for 6G because she'd had a booster.    


Member since 2008.


Edited
4 Years Ago by Munrubenmuz
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terrific news this morning, the TGA has approved the Covid Vaccine for children aged 5-12

this means we can now mandate it at schools
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note the upside down flag

this is a dog whistle for white supremacists and seen at some recent whack job rallies in Australia too

https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/c_crop,d_placeholder_euli9k,h_1000,w_1778,x_76,y_0/dpr_1.5/c_limit,w_1044/fl_lossy,q_auto/v1638667977/Screen_Shot_2021-12-04_at_5.08.47_PM_rm9t1e

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That photo is glowing so brightly it can be seen from the moon.

There are only two intellectually honest debate tactics: (a) pointing out errors or omissions in your opponent’s facts, or (b) pointing out errors or omissions in your opponent’s logic. All other debate tactics are intellectually dishonest - John T. Reed

The Most Popular Presidential Candidate Of All Time (TM) cant go to a sports stadium in the country he presides over. Figure that one out...




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These state politicians need to sit down and stfu. 
Time to open. We have had the jab. 

The Queensland one all dopey smiles acting like a hero cause she opens 3 days earlier than some stupid plan. 

Everyone has had a chance to get the vaxx. There is nothing else we can do now. 

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tsf - 7 Dec 2021 8:56 AM
These state politicians need to sit down and stfu. 
Time to open. We have had the jab. 

The Queensland one all dopey smiles acting like a hero cause she opens 3 days earlier than some stupid plan. 

Everyone has had a chance to get the vaxx. There is nothing else we can do now. 

Not wrong. Pissing me right off. My lad lives up there and we can't visit him unless we get tested before and after crossing the border. Fuck right off.

Show your certificate and move on.


Member since 2008.


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Munrubenmuz - 7 Dec 2021 10:10 AM
tsf - 7 Dec 2021 8:56 AM

Not wrong. Pissing me right off. My lad lives up there and we can't visit him unless we get tested before and after crossing the border. Fuck right off.

Show your certificate and move on.
Yeah, I’m going to be in rural nsw with mine soon, then I’m dropping them to their mum back in vic and she’s going up to qld. But the two little kids need a negative test which is obviously impossible to turn around in the time from me dropping off to her leaving. 

It’s beyond ridiculous. 

Yet politicians move anywhere they like. The truth is they use some bs that they are essential. But if every one of them dropped dead tomorrow the place will run exactly the same as it’s everyone else that does work or writes the policies. 




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tsf - 7 Dec 2021 12:13 PM
Munrubenmuz - 7 Dec 2021 10:10 AM
Yeah, I’m going to be in rural nsw with mine soon, then I’m dropping them to their mum back in vic and she’s going up to qld. But the two little kids need a negative test which is obviously impossible to turn around in the time from me dropping off to her leaving. 

It’s beyond ridiculous. 

Yet politicians move anywhere they like. The truth is they use some bs that they are essential. But if every one of them dropped dead tomorrow the place will run exactly the same as it’s everyone else that does work or writes the policies. 




Can you get a COVID test in NSW when passing through? Turnaround time is same day and if they're valid for 3 days, it could work. Pain in the arse though.
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Burztur - 7 Dec 2021 2:47 PM
tsf - 7 Dec 2021 12:13 PM

Can you get a COVID test in NSW when passing through? Turnaround time is same day and if they're valid for 3 days, it could work. Pain in the arse though.

Yeah, might have to but means I've got to detour our holiday and try and find somewhere that does it near where we will be, adding god knows how long on to our day when we are driving back to Vic already that day. 
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the problem is there are still too many unvaccinated people roaming around spreading the virus

until we get this under control it will be difficult to see restrictions lifted as we don't have the infrastructure in place yet to process everyone's papers
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Italy now has come on board with this progressive policy which I keep reminding you is the only way forward...

Italy begins lockdown of the unvaccinated: Only the double jabbed will be able to fully participate in public life using a 'super green pass' from TODAY

  • Unvaccinated Italians will not be allowed into indoor restaurants, theatres, museums and public events from Monday
  • The 'Super Green Pass' requires Italians to be double jabbed rather than providing a negative Covid test result
  • Restrictions follow a steady rise in Covid cases and fears over Omicron variant 
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10279341/Italy-begins-lockdown-unvaccinated-double-jabbed-able-participate-public-life.html

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4 Years Ago by cesspit
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interesting take

Hardcore vaccine refuseniks could need deradicalising like terrorists – expert
Pa Reporters
Wed, 8 December 2021, 9:31 am·3-min read
(Tess De La Mere/PA) (PA Archive)

A “deradicalisation” programme like those given to former terrorists or cult members might be the only way to dissuade some hardcore antivaxxers from their beliefs, according to one psychology expert.

Around six million eligible people in the UK have not received a single jab a year on from the first Covid vaccination being given in the UK.

Professor Stephan Lewandowsky, chair in cognitive psychology at the University of Bristol, was keen to stress that many of those are likely to be “marginalised” people who are “very difficult to reach for anything”, and for whom access is likely to be the biggest issue rather than psychological or ideological factors.

But for a small section of “hardcore refuseniks”, he said, it may be difficult to reach them by conventional means because their beliefs are so ingrained.

He told the PA news agency: “They’ll refuse anything – ‘I’m not going to wear a mask’, ‘I’m not going to get vaccinated’, ‘I don’t think climate change is happening’, ‘Covid is a hoax’, and, you know, ‘Hillary Clinton is actually a reptilian shapeshifter’.

“You’re getting to people who hold a cluster of very exotic beliefs – now, they’re very difficult to reach.”

Measures that could be used to reach more moderate people who remain unvaccinated, he said, include assigning vaccine appointments to people rather than asking them to book their own, or setting up pop-up clinics in places like supermarkets or shopping centres.

Another measure would be introducing a vaccine mandate, which he said “will disgruntle a few people” but “can be effective”.

But for those with more extreme views, he said, those methods may not be effective.

He added: “In the ideal world, time and money permitting, you can engage even those people in a very slow, long-term process where you affirm their right to have those beliefs… rather than telling them something about themselves they don’t want to hear, let’s put it that way.

“So you tell them something positive, and then engage in what is effectively the same as a deradicalisation process for former terrorists, or cult members.

“Because we’re really talking, when we get down to that small number of committed refusers, we’re talking about the psychology of cults and extremism, and it’s a very similar psychology.”

Mr Lewandowsky said online misinformation is a contributing factor, adding that while some steps had been taken to remove false claims, sites like Facebook and YouTube are “not doing enough”.

“One of the reasons these hardcore refuseniks exist is because they can live in their own ecosystem of misinformation,” he said.

Among those who continue to refuse the Covid vaccines is 44-year-old Paul Barrett from Newcastle who believes they are “dangerous”.

Mr Barrett said he has researched the topic by watching videos and reading articles online and believes the public is “being lied to”.

“Nothing could make me decide to have this jab, it’s dangerous,” he told PA.

“I’ve had Covid and it’s true I was very ill and could barely breathe for over a week but I survived through my immune system, I’m willing to continue to trust said immune system rather than a jab with so many cases of bad, life-ending side affects.

“I believe we’re being lied to.”

Online Covid misinformation is “a very serious public health issue”, according to one expert.

Imran Ahmed, chief executive of the Centre for Countering Digital Hate, told PA: “People have died, and more still are at greater risk of suffering from Covid, because they got their medical information from Facebook and other social media sites.

“These platforms are chronically polluted because anti-vaxxers have been allowed to dump toxic misinformation into people’s feeds on a daily basis for years with impunity.

“Most people who haven’t been jabbed aren’t what you might refer to as ‘committed anti-vaxxers’ – they are merely vaccine-hesitant, because they’ve been deliberately and cynically targeted with a steady campaign of half-truths, baseless conspiracy theories and outright lies.”

https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/hardcore-vaccine-refuseniks-could-deradicalising-000122344.html

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Experts warn against easing NSW Covid restrictions as La Niña and Omicron combine to cause jump in cases

Australian epidemiologist Prof Mary-Louise McLaws says ‘it’s definitely unwise to push ahead with relaxations’ before more is known about Omicron variant

La Niña could create a spike in Covid cases by forcing people indoors to avoid the rain at the same time as the Omicron variant is spreading in Australia, say epidemiologists who are warning health authorities to delay the easing of social distancing measures.

The La Niña weather pattern means north and eastern Australia is experiencing a relatively cool, damp and stormy summer. Epidemiologists say it could drive a spike in Covid cases by making more people gather indoors and by generating higher humidity which allows virus particles to linger longer in the air.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/dec/10/experts-warn-against-easing-covid-restrictions-as-la-nina-and-omicron-combine-to-cause-jump-in-cases

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“This didn’t make any headlines. Between July and December of 2020, roughly 220,000 people were offered a dose of 0.2mg/kg/day (roughly 18mg for a 200lb person) as an optional treatment for 2 days, once every two weeks.”

“133,051 people took them up on it, while 87,466 did not.”

“After analyzing the data, a team of researchers spanning several Brazilian institutes, the University of Toronto, and Columbia’s EAFIT concluded in a December [2021] pre-print study that hospitalization and mortality rates were cut in half over the seven-month period among the Ivermectin group.”

The conclusion of the following research paper states:

"In a city-wide ivermectin program with prophylactic, optional ivermectin use for COVID-19, ivermectin demonstrated to significantly reduce COVID-19 infection rate and death rate from COVID-19, and mortality rate if infected."

Here is the link to the research paper:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/356962821_Ivermectin_prophylaxis_used_for_COVID-19_reduces_COVID-19_infection_and_mortality_rates_A_220517-subject_populational-level_retrospective_citywide

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/12/brazilian-city-cuts-hospitalizations-mortality-rates-half-implementing-ivermectin-prophylaxis-covid/

Meanwhile, “In a remarkable exchange, Hill admitted his manipulated study would likely delay the uptake of ivermectin in the UK and United States. … Four days before publication, Hill’s sponsor Unitaid gave the University of Liverpool, Hill’s employer $40 million.”

https://www.worldtribune.com/researcher-andrew-hills-conflict-a-40-million-gates-foundation-grant-vs-a-half-million-human-lives/

You might not agree with the researchers from the Brazilian institutes and the University of Toronto, but at least keep an open mind for more evidence, and don't belittle those who realised this long before the rest of the pack, and had to endure criticism from the mob to get this truth out.

Let's think outside the box for a moment. This is very hard for true believers, but those who have open minds and unbiased hearts (very rare to find such a bloke these days) will enjoy the mental exercise.

Let's say:
- Ivermectin really does work
- No lockdowns
- No destruction of businesses
- No mass loss of jobs
- No $billions and $trillions of dollars in profit for Pharma companies

But, realistically, it's not going to happen because, in spite of the research evidence, the staunch foot soldiers are trained to think according to how the Media bosses tell them to (probably watching too much TV as kids). And no amount of evidence will shift the typical Aussie who will stomp on anyone who steps out of line with the Media. Previous generations of Aussies were known for their larrakin spirit of going against the mob, but somehow, I don't know how it happened, the now typical Aussie is a conformist, and will mercilessly ridicule anyone who steps out of line.

Consider this: Ivermectin has been used for over 30 years, and is so widely used among HOOMANS, that the W.H.O. includes Ivermectin on its Essential medicines list. But when the powerful want to promote their product, and have to stomp on Ivermectin, they tell the people that Ivermectin is "horse medicine" -- and I dunno what percentage of people fell for that one. But, going by people we talk to, it seems a whopping number of people will swallow anything the Media tells them.



Edited
4 Years Ago by johnsmith
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https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/06/29/1027290/gain-of-function-risky-bat-virus-engineering-links-america-to-wuhan/

havent verified source but enjoy, legals being prepared

In 2013, the American virologist Ralph Baric approached Zhengli Shi at a meeting. Baric was a top expert in coronaviruses, with hundreds of papers to his credit, and Shi, along with her team at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, had been discovering them by the fistful in bat caves. In one sample of bat guano, Shi had detected the genome of a new virus, called SHC014, that was one of the two closest relatives to the original SARS virus, but her team had not been able to culture it in the lab.

Baric had developed a way around that problem—a technique for “reverse genetics” in coronaviruses. Not only did it allow him to bring an actual virus to life from its genetic code, but he could mix and match parts of multiple viruses. He wanted to take the “spike” gene from SHC014 and move it into a genetic copy of the SARS virus he already had in his lab. The spike molecule is what lets a coronavirus open a cell and get inside it. The resulting chimera would demonstrate whether the spike of SHC014 would attach to human cells.

If it could, then it could help him with his long-term project of developing universal drugs and vaccines against the full spectrum of SARS-like viruses that he increasingly considered sources of potential pandemics. A SARS vaccine had been developed, but it wasn’t expected to be very effective against related coronaviruses, just as flu shots rarely work against new strains. To develop a universal vaccine that will elicit an antibody response against a gamut of SARS-like viruses, you need to show the immune system a cocktail of spikes. SHC014 could be one of them.

If you study a hundred different bat viruses, your luck may run out.

-Ralph Baric, University of North Carolina
Baric asked Shi if he could have the genetic data for SHC014. “She was gracious enough to send us those sequences almost immediately,” he says. His team introduced the virus modified with that code into mice and into a petri dish of human airway cells. Sure enough, the chimera exhibited “robust replication” in the human cells—evidence that nature was full of coronaviruses ready to leap directly to people.

While Baric’s study was in progress, the National Institutes of Health announced that it would temporarily halt funding for “gain of function” research—experiments that make already dangerous viruses more virulent or transmissible—on SARS, MERS (which is also caused by a coronavirus), and influenza until the safety of such research could be assessed. The announcement brought Baric’s work to a standstill.

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Baric was a legend in the field, but no matter how many safety precautions are taken, there is always a chance that a never-before-seen virus can escape and trigger an outbreak. Baric felt that the extreme measures he took in the lab minimized the risk, and in fact made his work categorically different from the high-risk influenza work the NIH had been targeting. He also felt that his research was urgent: new cases of MERS, spread by camels, were even then popping up in the Middle East. Eventually the NIH agreed, waving him forward.

His 2015 paper, “A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence,” was a tour de force, utilizing bleeding-edge genetic technology to alert the civilized world to a looming danger on its periphery. It also revived concerns about gain-of-function experiments, which Baric had known it would. In the paper, he spelled out the extra precautions he’d taken and held up the research as a test case. “The potential to prepare for and mitigate future outbreaks must be weighed against the risk of creating more dangerous pathogens,” he wrote. “Scientific review panels may deem similar studies building chimeric viruses based on circulating strains too risky to pursue.”

The NIH decided the risk was worth it. In a potentially fateful decision, it funded work similar to Baric’s at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which soon used its own reverse-genetics technology to make numerous coronavirus chimeras.

Unnoticed by most, however, was a key difference that significantly shifted the risk calculation. The Chinese work was carried out at biosafety level 2 (BSL-2), a much lower tier than Baric’s BSL-3+.

What caused the covid-19 pandemic remains uncertain, and Shi says her lab never encountered the SARS-CoV-2 virus before the Wuhan outbreak. But now that US officials have said the possibility of a lab accident needs to be investigated, the spotlight has fallen on American funding of the Wuhan lab’s less safe research. Todaya chorus of scientists, including Baric, are coming forward to say this was a misstep. Even if there is no link to covid-19, allowing work on potentially dangerous bat viruses at BSL-2 is “an actual scandal,” says Michael Lin, a bioengineer at Stanford University.

The simmering concern that the US funded risky research in China burst into the national discussion on May 11, when Senator Rand Paul accused Anthony Fauci, the longtime director of the NIH’s National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, of funding “supervirus” research in the US and “making a huge mistake” by trading the know-how to China. Paul repeatedly confronted Fauci and demanded to know if he had funded gain-of-function research in that country. Fauci denied the accusation, stating categorically: “The NIH has not ever, and does not now, fund gain-of-function research in the Wuhan Institute of Virology.”

Rand Paul
During a hearing on May 11, 2021, Senator Rand Paul confronted Anthony Fauci over funding of bat-virus research by the National Institutes of Health.
GREG NASH/POOL VIA AP
The denial rests on the NIH’s specific definition of what was covered by the moratorium: work that would have deliberately enhanced SARS-like viruses, MERS, or flu by—for example—making them easier to spread through the air. The Chinese research did not have the specific goal of making the viruses more deadly, and rather than SARS itself, it used SARS’s close cousins, whose real-world risk to humans was unknown—in fact, determining the risk was the point of the research. Just as when you trade in part of a poker hand for fresh cards, there was no way of knowing whether the final chimeras would be stronger or weaker.


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The NIH has still not fully explained its decision-making and did not reply to questions. Citing a pending investigation, it has declined to release copies of the grant that sent the Wuhan institute about $600,000 between 2014 and 2019. It has also revealed little about its new system for assessing gain-of-function risks, which is carried out by an anonymous review panel whose deliberations are not made public. Until there’s more sunlight, the agency will be fighting speculation, from Paul and others, that what occurred is a scenario Fauci himself had outlined in a 2012 commentary discussing research on pandemic germs.

“The only impact of this work is the creation, in a lab, of a new, non-natural risk."

Richard Ebright, Rutgers University
“Consider this hypothetical scenario,” Fauci wrote. “An important gain-of-function experiment involving a virus with serious pandemic potential is performed in a well-regulated, world-class laboratory by experienced investigators, but the information from the experiment is then used by another scientist who does not have the same training and facilities and is not subject to the same regulations. In an unlikely but conceivable turn of events, what if that scientist becomes infected with the virus, which leads to an outbreak and ultimately triggers a pandemic?”

A wake-up call
Paul’s grilling of Fauci brought new scrutiny to the relationship between Ralph Baric’s lab at UNC and Zhengli Shi’s at WIV, with some narratives painting Baric as the Sith master of SARS and Shi as his ascendant apprentice. They did share resources—for example, Baric sent the transgenic mice with human lung receptors to Wuhan. But after their initial collaboration, the two centers were more like competitors. They were in a race to identify dangerous coronaviruses, assess the potential threat, and develop countermeasures like vaccines.

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For Baric, that research started in the late 1990s. Coronaviruses were then considered low risk, but Baric’s studies on the genetics that allowed viruses to enter human cells convinced him that some might be just a few mutations away from jumping the species barrier.

That hunch was confirmed in 2002–’03, when SARS broke out in southern China, infecting 8,000 people. As bad as that was, Baric says, we dodged a bullet with SARS. The disease didn’t spread from one person to another until about a day after severe symptoms began to appear, making it easier to corral through quarantines and contact tracing. Only 774 people died in that outbreak, but if it had been transmitted as easily as SARS-CoV-2, “we would have had a pandemic with a 10% mortality rate,” Baric says. “That’s how close humanity came.”

As tempting as it was to write off SARS as a one-time event, in 2012 MERS emerged and began infecting people in the Middle East. “For me personally, that was a wake-up call that the animal reservoirs must have many, many more strains that are poised for cross-species movement,” says Baric.

By then, examples of such dangers were already being discovered by Shi’s team, which had spent years sampling bats in southern China to locate the origin of SARS. The project was part of a global viral surveillance effort spearheaded by the US nonprofit EcoHealth Alliance. The nonprofit—which has an annual income of over $16 million, more than 90% from government grants—has its office in New York but partners with local research groups in other countries to do field and lab work. The WIV was its crown jewel, and Peter Daszak, president of EcoHealth Alliance, has been a coauthor with Shi on most of her key papers.

By taking thousands of samples from guano, fecal swabs, and bat tissue, and searching those samples for genetic sequences similar to SARS, Shi’s team began to discover many closely related viruses. In a cave in Yunnan Province in 2011 or 2012, they discovered the two closest, which they named WIV1 and SHC014.

Shi managed to culture WIV1 in her lab from a fecal sample and show that it could directly infect human cells, proving that SARS-like viruses ready to leap straight from bats to humans already lurked in the natural world. This showed, Daszak and Shi argued, that bat coronaviruses were a “substantial global threat.” Scientists, they said, needed to find them, and study them, before they found us.

Many of the other viruses couldn’t be grown, but Baric’s system provided a way to rapidly test their spikes by engineering them into similar viruses. When the chimera he made using SHC014 proved able to infect human cells in a dish, Daszak told the press that these revelations should “move this virus from a candidate emerging pathogen to a clear and present danger.”

To others, it was the perfect example of the unnecessary dangers of gain-of-function science. “The only impact of this work is the creation, in a lab, of a new, non-natural risk,” the Rutgers microbiologist Richard Ebright, a longtime critic of such research, told Nature.

To Baric, the situation was more nuanced. Although his creation might be more dangerous than the original mouse-adapted virus he’d used as a backbone, it was still wimpy compared with SARS—certainly not the supervirus Senator Paul would later suggest.

In the end, the NIH clampdown never had teeth. It included a clause granting exceptions “if head of funding agency determines research is urgently necessary to protect public health or national security.” Not only were Baric’s studies allowed to move forward, but so were all studies that applied for exemptions. The funding restrictions were lifted in 2017 and replaced with a more lenient system.

Tyvek suits and respirators
If the NIH was looking for a scientist to make regulators comfortable with gain-of-function research, Baric was the obvious choice. For years he’d insisted on extra safety steps, and he took pains to point these out in his 2015 paper, as if modeling the way forward.

The CDC recognizes four levels of biosafety and recommends which pathogens should be studied at which level. Biosafety level 1 is for nonhazardous organisms and requires virtually no precautions: wear a lab coat and gloves as needed. BSL-2 is for moderately hazardous pathogens that are already endemic in the area, and relatively mild interventions are indicated: close the door, wear eye protection, dispose of waste materials in an autoclave. BSL-3 is where things get serious. It’s for pathogens that can cause serious disease through respiratory transmission, such as influenza and SARS, and the associated protocols include multiple barriers to escape. Labs are walled off by two sets of self-closing, locking doors; air is filtered; personnel use full PPE and N95 masks and are under medical surveillance. BSL-4 is for the baddest of the baddies, such as Ebola and Marburg: full moon suits and dedicated air systems are added to the arsenal.

“There are no enforceable standards of what you should and shouldn’t do. It’s up to the individual countries, institutions, and scientists.”

Filippa Lentzos, King’s College London
In Baric’s lab, the chimeras were studied at BSL-3, enhanced with additional steps like Tyvek suits, double gloves, and powered-air respirators for all workers. Local first-responder teams participated in regular drills to increase their familiarity with the lab. All workers were monitored for infections, and local hospitals had procedures in place to handle incoming scientists. It was probably one of the safest BSL-3 facilities in the world. That still wasn’t enough to prevent a handful of errors over the years: some scientists were even bitten by virus-carrying mice. But no infections resulted.

Brand-new pathogens
In 2014, the NIH awarded a five-year, $3.75 million grant to EcoHealth Alliance to study the risk that more bat-borne coronaviruses would emerge in China, using the same kind of techniques Baric had pioneered. Some of that work was to be subcontracted to the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

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Two years later, Daszak and Shi published a paper reporting how the Chinese lab had engineered different versions of WIV1 and tested their infectiousness in human cells. The paper announced that the WIV had developed its own reverse-genetics system, following the Americans’ lead. It also included a troubling detail: the work, which was funded in part by the NIH grant, had been done in a BSL-2 lab. That meant the same viruses that Daszak was holding up as a clear and present danger to the world were being studied under conditions that, according to Richard Ebright, matched “the biosafety level of a US dentist’s office.”

Ebright believes one factor at play was the cost and inconvenience of working in high-containment conditions. The Chinese lab’s decision to work at BSL-2, he says, would have “effectively increas[ed] rates of progress, all else being equal, by a factor of 10 to 20”—a huge edge.

Work at the WIV was indeed progressing quickly. In 2017, Daszak and Shi followed with another study, also at BSL-2, that one-upped Baric’s work in North Carolina. The WIV had continued to unearth dozens of new SARS-like coronaviruses in bat caves, and it reported making chimeras with eight of them by fusing the spikes of the new viruses to the chassis of WIV1. Two of them replicated well in human cells. They were, for all intents and purposes, brand-new pathogens.

The revelation that the WIV was working with SARS-like viruses in subpar safety conditions has led some people to reassess the chance that SARS-CoV-2 could have emerged from some type of laboratory incident. “That’s screwed up,” the Columbia University virologist Ian Lipkin, who coauthored the seminal paper arguing that covid must have had a natural origin, told the journalist Donald McNeil Jr. “It shouldn’t have happened. People should not be looking at bat viruses in BSL-2 labs. My view has changed.”

But the WIV was not breaking any rules by working at BSL-2, says Filippa Lentzos, a biosecurity expert at King’s College London “There are no enforceable standards of what you should and shouldn’t do. It’s up to the individual countries, institutions, and scientists.” And in China, she says, the vertiginous rise of high-tech biological research has not been accompanied by an equivalent increase in oversight.

In an email, Zhengli Shi said she followed Chinese rules that are similar to those in the US. Safety requirements are based on what virus you are studying. Since bat viruses like WIV1 haven’t been confirmed to cause disease in human beings, her biosafety committee recommended BSL-2 for engineering them and testing them and BSL-3 for any animal experiments.

In response to questions about the decision to do the research in BSL-2 conditions, Peter Daszak forwarded a statement from EcoHealth Alliance stating that the organization “must follow the local laws of the countries in which we work” and that the NIH had determined the research was “not gain-of-function.”

Questioning China
There is no law against using tighter lab security, however, and according to Baric, these viruses deserve it. “I would never argue that WIV1 or SHC014 should be studied at BSL-2, because they can grow in primary human cells,” he says. “There’s some risk associated with those viruses. We have no idea whether they could actually cause severe disease in a human, but you want to err on the side of caution ... If you study a hundred different bat viruses, your luck may run out.”

Since the pandemic began, Baric has not said much about the possible origins of the virus or about his Chinese counterparts. On several occasions, however, he has quietly pointed to safety concerns at the WIV. In May 2020, when few scientists were willing to consider a lab leak in public, he published a paper acknowledging that “speculation about accidental laboratory escape will likely persist, given the large collections of bat virome samples stored in labs in the Wuhan Institute of Virology, the facility’s proximity to the early outbreak, and the operating procedures at the facility.” He flagged Daszak and Shi’s BSL-2 paper, in case anyone didn’t understand what he was saying.

Ralph Baric
Ralph Baric of the University of North Carolina specializes in the genetic engineering of coronaviruses as part of vaccine and drug research.
COURTESY PHOTO
The National Institutes of Health has also revisited its ties to the Wuhan lab. In April of 2020, the NIH terminated its grant to EcoHealth Alliance for bat virus research. In a follow-up letter to Daszak on July 8, it offered to reinstate the grant, but only if EcoHealth Alliance could allay its concerns, noting reports that the WIV “has been conducting research at its facilities in China that pose serious bio-safety concerns” for other countries. It added, “We have concerns that WIV has not satisfied safety requirements under the award, and that EcoHealth Alliance has not satisfied its obligations to monitor the activities of its subrecipient.”

The genetic code of SARS-CoV-2 does not resemble that of any virus the WIV was known to be culturing in its lab, such as WIV1, and Baric says he still believes a natural spillover is the most likely cause. But he also knows the intricate risks of the work well enough to see a possible path to trouble. That is why, in May of this year, he joined 17 other scientists in a letter in the journal Science calling for a thorough investigation of his onetime collaborator’s lab and its practices. He wants to know what barriers were in place to keep a pathogen from slipping out into Wuhan’s population of 13 million, and possibly to the world.

“Let’s face it: there are going to be unknown viruses in guano, or oral swabs, which are oftentimes pooled. And if you’re attempting to culture a virus, you’re going to have novel strains being dropped onto culture cells,” Baric says. “Some will grow. You could get recombinants that are unique. And if that was being done at BSL-2, then there are questions you want to ask.”

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by Rowan Jacobsen


Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club

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How's the QLD government.

What an utter disgrace sending people into quarantine over xmas. So vaccinated people, sitting 30 metres away from someone on a flight when borders open hit with that. Many probably havent seen family for years 


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tsf - 15 Dec 2021 10:27 AM
How's the QLD government.

What an utter disgrace sending people into quarantine over xmas. So vaccinated people, sitting 30 metres away from someone on a flight when borders open hit with that. Many probably havent seen family for years 


You realise that many doctors are saying the Covid vaccines are giving very little resistance to Omicron?

Early in 2020, a minority of vaccine experts proposed the theory that rushing into a mass vaccination program during an epidemic would result in the population initially getting protection, but would eventually leave them vulnerable to future variants. That is what is happening now. Admittedly, this was a minority medical view. But because that theory correlates with what is now happening, maybe the majority was wrong, and the minority was right?

What this minority theory involves is that people who took the vaccines, their innate immune system would be damaged by the vaccines - and would leave them needing to take ever increasing rounds of boosters for new variants.

Would you agree that, usually following the majority is the safe option - but there are many cases in history where the majority was wrong? Would you agree?
Edited
4 Years Ago by johnsmith
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johnsmith - 15 Dec 2021 11:01 AM
tsf - 15 Dec 2021 10:27 AM

You realise that many doctors are saying the Covid vaccines are giving very little resistance to Omicron?

Early in 2020, a minority of vaccine experts proposed the theory that rushing into a mass vaccination program during an epidemic would result in the population initially getting protection, but would eventually leave them vulnerable to future variants. That is what is happening now. Admittedly, this was a minority medical view. But because that theory correlates with what is now happening, maybe the majority was wrong, and the minority was right?

What this minority theory involves is that people who took the vaccines, their innate immune system would be damaged by the vaccines - and would leave them needing to take ever increasing rounds of boosters for new variants.

Would you agree that, usually following the majority is the safe option - but there are many cases in history where the majority was wrong? Would you agree?

My god you are full of shit.  People have been saying a mutated strain resistant to vaccines was an inevitability since the start.  



(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE

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tsf - 15 Dec 2021 10:27 AM
How's the QLD government.

What an utter disgrace sending people into quarantine over xmas. So vaccinated people, sitting 30 metres away from someone on a flight when borders open hit with that. Many probably havent seen family for years 


Rescinded. Sanity prevails.


Member since 2008.


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Munrubenmuz - 15 Dec 2021 12:29 PM
tsf - 15 Dec 2021 10:27 AM

Rescinded. Sanity prevails.

These deadshit premiers need to hold their nerve. 

Everyone has been warned, and asked to get vaccinated. Their problem now.
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GO


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