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tsf
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 14K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xVaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/ Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example. Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020. Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year. Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days. Governments have been pushing it too What about this from Dan Andrews. Pretty blunt. "The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today." "If you want to open up" ✅ "Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal. You're missing the point. The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal. Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal. They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal. Surely you can see the narrative has changed. It's quite obvious. That's the only point I am making. the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus. I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle. The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news. True but unfortunately they (politicians) are who we hear from and ultimately who actually make the decisions so it doesn't surprise me most people did think this to be the case. I know I did to a large degree. Not because I didn't know there were health experts saying something else, or policy experts/opposition saying something else but because the actual state leaders whose job it is to make the call sold it this way directly to the public from their vanity pulpit
Yeah I kind of assumed the vaccines would only largely prevent seriously illness. Not infection. Mostly because my partner got it early on and a close mate develops vaccines and explained the next few years pretty clearly to me.
At the end of the day there really is not total solution. It’s nature/science. It will do what it wants without a finish date. As much as that sucks we have unfortunately been unlucky enough to live through a pandemic.
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Butler99
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xVaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/ Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example. Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020. Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year. Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days. Governments have been pushing it too What about this from Dan Andrews. Pretty blunt. "The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today." "If you want to open up" ✅ "Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal. You're missing the point. The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal. Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal. They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal. Surely you can see the narrative has changed. It's quite obvious. That's the only point I am making. the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus. I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle. The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news. True but unfortunately they (politicians) are who we hear from and ultimately who actually make the decisions so it doesn't surprise me most people did think this to be the case. I know I did to a large degree. Not because I didn't know there were health experts saying something else, or policy experts/opposition saying something else but because the actual state leaders whose job it is to make the call sold it this way directly to the public from their vanity pulpit
Yeah I kind of assumed the vaccines would only largely prevent seriously illness. Not infection. Mostly because my partner got it early on and a close mate develops vaccines and explained the next few years pretty clearly to me.
At the end of the day there really is not total solution. It’s nature/science. It will do what it wants without a finish date. As much as that sucks we have unfortunately been unlucky enough to live through a pandemic.
And that is why mass vaccination, mandates and vaccine passports are obsolete. They do not achieve anything significant. In regards to living through this pandemic... Well I'm glad it is nothing like the Spanish flu. That was a real pandemic. That affected a majority of people in the prime of their lives. This one has been blown out of proportion to claim it is a one in 100 year pandemic. It's still an issue for the chronically ill, immunocompromised, old and frail....like most flus. Just worse. But the government and media continuous fearmongering 2 years on is overblown. Unfortunately that is a sign of our times. Government over-governing Media run like a business Pharmaceuticals arrogance and $$$ chasing. People expecting governments to take responsibility for individuals and love of prescribed medicine for everything and anything.
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Burztur
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xVaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/ Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example. Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020. Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year. Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days. Governments have been pushing it too What about this from Dan Andrews. Pretty blunt. "The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today." "If you want to open up" ✅ "Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal. You're missing the point. The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal. Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal. They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal. Surely you can see the narrative has changed. It's quite obvious. That's the only point I am making. the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus. I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle. The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news. I think part of the reasoning was to drive vaccine uptake. Now people are caught out in this position where they need to double down on taking vaccines and to shut down any criticism of it. I think some of the honest conversations which we should be having is gone. It's quite polarised now.
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mcjules
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 8.4K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xVaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/ Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example. Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020. Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year. Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days. Governments have been pushing it too What about this from Dan Andrews. Pretty blunt. "The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today." "If you want to open up" ✅ "Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal. You're missing the point. The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal. Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal. They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal. Surely you can see the narrative has changed. It's quite obvious. That's the only point I am making. the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus. I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle. The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news. True but unfortunately they (politicians) are who we hear from and ultimately who actually make the decisions so it doesn't surprise me most people did think this to be the case. I know I did to a large degree. Not because I didn't know there were health experts saying something else, or policy experts/opposition saying something else but because the actual state leaders whose job it is to make the call sold it this way directly to the public from their vanity pulpit
Yeah I kind of assumed the vaccines would only largely prevent seriously illness. Not infection. Mostly because my partner got it early on and a close mate develops vaccines and explained the next few years pretty clearly to me.
At the end of the day there really is not total solution. It’s nature/science. It will do what it wants without a finish date. As much as that sucks we have unfortunately been unlucky enough to live through a pandemic.
And that is why mass vaccination, mandates and vaccine passports are obsolete. They do not achieve anything significant. This is demonstrably false and examples of what mass vaccination has allowed to happen have been given over and over again.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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mcjules
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 8.4K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xVaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/ Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example. Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020. Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year. Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days. Governments have been pushing it too What about this from Dan Andrews. Pretty blunt. "The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today." "If you want to open up" ✅ "Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal. You're missing the point. The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal. Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal. They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal. Surely you can see the narrative has changed. It's quite obvious. That's the only point I am making. the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus. I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle. The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news. I think part of the reasoning was to drive vaccine uptake. Now people are caught out in this position where they need to double down on taking vaccines and to shut down any criticism of it. I think some of the honest conversations which we should be having is gone. It's quite polarised now. I do not get what they're "doubling down" on? Vaccines are important, they're working and we need to continue to drive the percentage of population higher like with kids (my kids got their first jab today). That doesn't mean when we get under pressure from a wave (which an epidemic virus is going to do) and hospitalisations rise, we don't need other measures as well so that people can get treatment for the variety of conditions people tend to need hospital for. The main criticism deserved is not supplying vaccines sooner, the long lockdowns last year due to Delta were very much preventable and exhausted a lot of people to the point that people are looking for an easy answer to everything being done. Unfortunately the virus doesn't care.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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Butler99
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xVaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/ Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example. Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020. Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year. Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days. Governments have been pushing it too What about this from Dan Andrews. Pretty blunt. "The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today." "If you want to open up" ✅ "Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal. You're missing the point. The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal. Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal. They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal. Surely you can see the narrative has changed. It's quite obvious. That's the only point I am making. the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus. I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle. The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news. True but unfortunately they (politicians) are who we hear from and ultimately who actually make the decisions so it doesn't surprise me most people did think this to be the case. I know I did to a large degree. Not because I didn't know there were health experts saying something else, or policy experts/opposition saying something else but because the actual state leaders whose job it is to make the call sold it this way directly to the public from their vanity pulpit
Yeah I kind of assumed the vaccines would only largely prevent seriously illness. Not infection. Mostly because my partner got it early on and a close mate develops vaccines and explained the next few years pretty clearly to me.
At the end of the day there really is not total solution. It’s nature/science. It will do what it wants without a finish date. As much as that sucks we have unfortunately been unlucky enough to live through a pandemic.
And that is why mass vaccination, mandates and vaccine passports are obsolete. They do not achieve anything significant. AMnAMAMn This is demonstrably false and examples of what mass vaccination has allowed to happen have been given over and over again. If you're talking about restriction lifted then this is all to do with government decisions. Their rules. Mass vaccination mandates for kids under 18, sports industries, healthy people under 30, healthy people in general under 65 has made minimal difference. People have lost jobs for no reason. Taxpayer $$$ have been wasted on unnecessary jabs for people who didnt need it or didnt want it. Vaccination could have been simply focused at high risk industries, vulnerable people, the elderly, immunocompromised. Complete over reaction from government. Interesting figures from NSW health oday. "Of the 36 people who died; 33 people had received at least two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine, and three people were not vaccinated." https://twitter.com/NSWHealth/status/1483228787664101376?t=9AGld0VLJtuaOsSTKWjgPA&s=19"Older age is a significant risk factor for serious illness and death for COVID-19, particularly when combined with significant underlying health conditions."
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Davide82
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 12K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xVaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/ Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example. Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020. Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year. Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days. Governments have been pushing it too What about this from Dan Andrews. Pretty blunt. "The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today." "If you want to open up" ✅ "Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal. You're missing the point. The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal. Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal. They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal. Surely you can see the narrative has changed. It's quite obvious. That's the only point I am making. the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus. I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle. The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news. True but unfortunately they (politicians) are who we hear from and ultimately who actually make the decisions so it doesn't surprise me most people did think this to be the case. I know I did to a large degree. Not because I didn't know there were health experts saying something else, or policy experts/opposition saying something else but because the actual state leaders whose job it is to make the call sold it this way directly to the public from their vanity pulpit
Yeah I kind of assumed the vaccines would only largely prevent seriously illness. Not infection. .
Yeah sorry, I didn't mean preventing infection vs serious illness I meant what I said in regards to stopping the lockdowns and the more hardcore of the restrictions. We are in a soft lockdown here now whatever they choose to call it. I do understand it's an evolving situation and you need flexibility but my personal opinion is the latest measures in this state were a panicked knee jerk reaction and unnecessary and it's been enforced on a weary population. I'm really skeptical that our latest draconian measures prevented much of anything and I didn't realise till quite recently how how much I in fact believe in personal responsibility as opposed to bureaucratic oversight. Not a liberal voter yet but I can't read another comment from some unemployed hippie or retired boomer about locking us all down to prevent one death or you're a monster without feeling a little sick aha Anyway, I'm just ranting and saying things I probably wouldn't to a lot of other people because there's no real consequence or need to defend my off the cuff ramblings here
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cesspit
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 357,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xVaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/ Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example. Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020. Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year. Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days. Governments have been pushing it too What about this from Dan Andrews. Pretty blunt. "The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today." "If you want to open up" ✅ "Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal. You're missing the point. The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal. Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal. They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal. Surely you can see the narrative has changed. It's quite obvious. That's the only point I am making. the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus. I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle. The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news. I think part of the reasoning was to drive vaccine uptake. Now people are caught out in this position where they need to double down on taking vaccines and to shut down any criticism of it. I think some of the honest conversations which we should be having is gone. It's quite polarised now. I do not get what they're "doubling down" on? Vaccines are important, they're working and we need to continue to drive the percentage of population higher like with kids (my kids got their first jab today). That doesn't mean when we get under pressure from a wave (which an epidemic virus is going to do) and hospitalisations rise, we don't need other measures as well so that people can get treatment for the variety of conditions people tend to need hospital for. The main criticism deserved is not supplying vaccines sooner, the long lockdowns last year due to Delta were very much preventable and exhausted a lot of people to the point that people are looking for an easy answer to everything being done. Unfortunately the virus doesn't care. You clearly get it, which is why you've been entrusted with moderating this forum. I can see you have insightful intellect on this topic and the broader picture. If it weren't for the lockdowns and border control policy we would be facing a horrific scenario like we've seen in the USA. On per capita basis that would be 70,000 to 100,000 deaths if we didn't have world's best practice in place. That is a proven fact. The only shortcoming was the federal Liberal government fumbling the vaccine rollout which meant we couldn't get our inoculation sooner and move out of some of the restrictions. Now we must continue to be vigilant and control the spread of anti-vaxxer misinformation which can harm the success of booster rollouts and undermine all the good work we have done. We must also put the remaining pieces in place so we can lean forward in this new normal and build back better. This includes a proper technological infrastructure which we're still in the process of formulating for Australia.
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mcjules
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 8.4K,
Visits: 0
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This "let covid positive workers work" solution to our supply chain and other staff shortages i.e. "fuck the workers" is as Liberal party as you can get.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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mcjules
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 8.4K,
Visits: 0
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Don't you dare :laugh:
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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Butler99
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1K,
Visits: 0
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Another article that is finally balancing the views in media. “You insisted on ignoring the fact that the disease is dozens of times more dangerous for risk groups and older adults, than for young people who are not in risk groups, despite the knowledge that came from China as early as 2020.”
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Davide82
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 12K,
Visits: 0
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Haha there's no need to worry I promise.
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bluebird2
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 648,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xVaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/ Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example. Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020. Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year. Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days. Governments have been pushing it too What about this from Dan Andrews. Pretty blunt. "The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today." "If you want to open up" ✅ "Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal. You're missing the point. The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal. Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal. They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal. Surely you can see the narrative has changed. It's quite obvious. That's the only point I am making. the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus. I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle. The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news. I think part of the reasoning was to drive vaccine uptake. Now people are caught out in this position where they need to double down on taking vaccines and to shut down any criticism of it. I think some of the honest conversations which we should be having is gone. It's quite polarised now. I do not get what they're "doubling down" on? Vaccines are important, they're working and we need to continue to drive the percentage of population higher like with kids (my kids got their first jab today). That doesn't mean when we get under pressure from a wave (which an epidemic virus is going to do) and hospitalisations rise, we don't need other measures as well so that people can get treatment for the variety of conditions people tend to need hospital for. I think we can both type the exact same thing for both of our points. The finer details in our points are how to define the validity of "other measures" and thats what we disagree on (and take it we always will) I'll give an example: The new Victorian law was designed to provide a non bias second opinion so we dont end up with superficial measures or self interest. Within our latest restrictions is the requirement for kids aged 8 or over to wear a mask at all times indoors. This is not anywhere else in Australia and without even looking it up I would guess not anywhere else in the world So where did the second independent non bias opinion come from? Who else has decided that this is a critical measure and without it the system will fail when nobody else outside of the Victorian response team has ever thought so? It's nothing more than a second signatory Not to mention Marshall today calling for positive people to take PCRs despite every bit of common sense recently demonstrating why they shouldn't. And not even adopting the national definitions for a contact Policy makers are making policies. No surprise there. Its no longer about the minimum required to control the hospital system in balance with everything else but about making policies and whatever self interest stems from that There are people, like yourself presumably, that will listen to and support whatever the response team says. If they say do this you will see that as critical for the wellbeing of you and your family. If they say do that, they will do that. No different if the CFA rock up to somebody's house during bushfire season and tells them to evacuate. You wouldn't think twice. I can understand why people will defend the current decisions and current restrictions purely because of who made them and the manner in which they were made. But as a Victorian I don't have that trust and my view on what is necessary and minimal is radically different This virus isn't cultural. It isn't an opportunity to enforce long term change or create new laws. The spirit of the response has always been what is the minimum needed to get the outbreak under control and not for a micro second longer than required. Not "this is what we want to do and here is an expert with a spreadsheet that shows us what will happen if we dont" I'd be happier if we had a national response and every restriction imposed had to go through an independent process that proved conclusively with fact (not projection or modelling) that without said measure in place the hospital system will buckle. What we are left with is what I will support
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xVaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/ Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example. Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020. Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year. Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days. Governments have been pushing it too What about this from Dan Andrews. Pretty blunt. "The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today." "If you want to open up" ✅ "Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal. You're missing the point. The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal. Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal. They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal. Surely you can see the narrative has changed. It's quite obvious. That's the only point I am making. the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus. I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle. The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news. True but unfortunately they (politicians) are who we hear from and ultimately who actually make the decisions so it doesn't surprise me most people did think this to be the case. I know I did to a large degree. Not because I didn't know there were health experts saying something else, or policy experts/opposition saying something else but because the actual state leaders whose job it is to make the call sold it this way directly to the public from their vanity pulpit
Yeah I kind of assumed the vaccines would only largely prevent seriously illness. Not infection. Mostly because my partner got it early on and a close mate develops vaccines and explained the next few years pretty clearly to me.
At the end of the day there really is not total solution. It’s nature/science. It will do what it wants without a finish date. As much as that sucks we have unfortunately been unlucky enough to live through a pandemic.
And that is why mass vaccination, mandates and vaccine passports are obsolete. They do not achieve anything significant. AMnAMAMn This is demonstrably false and examples of what mass vaccination has allowed to happen have been given over and over again. If you're talking about restriction lifted then this is all to do with government decisions. Their rules. Mass vaccination mandates for kids under 18, sports industries, healthy people under 30, healthy people in general under 65 has made minimal difference. People have lost jobs for no reason. Taxpayer $$$ have been wasted on unnecessary jabs for people who didnt need it or didnt want it. Vaccination could have been simply focused at high risk industries, vulnerable people, the elderly, immunocompromised. Complete over reaction from government. Interesting figures from NSW health oday. "Of the 36 people who died; 33 people had received at least two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine, and three people were not vaccinated." https://twitter.com/NSWHealth/status/1483228787664101376?t=9AGld0VLJtuaOsSTKWjgPA&s=19"Older age is a significant risk factor for serious illness and death for COVID-19, particularly when combined with significant underlying health conditions." So everything you say about who is vulnerable is correct. Currently in NSW about 95% are fully vaccinated. More than half the people admitted are unvaccinated. There are currently 2700 people taking up hospital beds. That's a shitload of resources and cost to the government not to mention thousands of people who need treatment for other ailments aren't getting any. Without vaccines that number would be 4, 5, 10 times higher. That fact alone is why it's worth vaccinating everyone. I cannot believe people still think we should only be vaccinating some people. Not to mention variants, which could be less or more severe, can emerge because the virus is still circulating. Another reason as to why everyone should be vaxxed.
Member since 2008.
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Burztur
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xVaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/ Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example. Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020. Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year. Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days. Governments have been pushing it too What about this from Dan Andrews. Pretty blunt. "The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today." "If you want to open up" ✅ "Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal. You're missing the point. The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal. Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal. They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal. Surely you can see the narrative has changed. It's quite obvious. That's the only point I am making. the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus. I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle. The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news. I think part of the reasoning was to drive vaccine uptake. Now people are caught out in this position where they need to double down on taking vaccines and to shut down any criticism of it. I think some of the honest conversations which we should be having is gone. It's quite polarised now. I do not get what they're "doubling down" on? Vaccines are important, they're working and we need to continue to drive the percentage of population higher like with kids (my kids got their first jab today). That doesn't mean when we get under pressure from a wave (which an epidemic virus is going to do) and hospitalisations rise, we don't need other measures as well so that people can get treatment for the variety of conditions people tend to need hospital for. The main criticism deserved is not supplying vaccines sooner, the long lockdowns last year due to Delta were very much preventable and exhausted a lot of people to the point that people are looking for an easy answer to everything being done. Unfortunately the virus doesn't care. Doubling down may be a poor choice of words. I agree with everything you say, but I think the general public were under the belief that if everyone (or as many as we could) got vaccinated, we would move on from this and it would be the end of it. That's clearly not the case. So we end up with this odd situation where the government is essentially urging the remaining 5% to get vaccinated, while the 95% are in limbo. What is the 95% meant to do now?
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Butler99
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xVaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/ Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example. Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020. Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year. Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days. Governments have been pushing it too What about this from Dan Andrews. Pretty blunt. "The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today." "If you want to open up" ✅ "Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal. You're missing the point. The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal. Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal. They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal. Surely you can see the narrative has changed. It's quite obvious. That's the only point I am making. the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus. I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle. The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news. True but unfortunately they (politicians) are who we hear from and ultimately who actually make the decisions so it doesn't surprise me most people did think this to be the case. I know I did to a large degree. Not because I didn't know there were health experts saying something else, or policy experts/opposition saying something else but because the actual state leaders whose job it is to make the call sold it this way directly to the public from their vanity pulpit
Yeah I kind of assumed the vaccines would only largely prevent seriously illness. Not infection. Mostly because my partner got it early on and a close mate develops vaccines and explained the next few years pretty clearly to me.
At the end of the day there really is not total solution. It’s nature/science. It will do what it wants without a finish date. As much as that sucks we have unfortunately been unlucky enough to live through a pandemic.
And that is why mass vaccination, mandates and vaccine passports are obsolete. They do not achieve anything significant. AMnAMAMn This is demonstrably false and examples of what mass vaccination has allowed to happen have been given over and over again. If you're talking about restriction lifted then this is all to do with government decisions. Their rules. Mass vaccination mandates for kids under 18, sports industries, healthy people under 30, healthy people in general under 65 has made minimal difference. People have lost jobs for no reason. Taxpayer $$$ have been wasted on unnecessary jabs for people who didnt need it or didnt want it. Vaccination could have been simply focused at high risk industries, vulnerable people, the elderly, immunocompromised. Complete over reaction from government. Interesting figures from NSW health oday. "Of the 36 people who died; 33 people had received at least two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine, and three people were not vaccinated." https://twitter.com/NSWHealth/status/1483228787664101376?t=9AGld0VLJtuaOsSTKWjgPA&s=19"Older age is a significant risk factor for serious illness and death for COVID-19, particularly when combined with significant underlying health conditions." So everything you say about who is vulnerable is correct. Currently in NSW about 95% are fully vaccinated. More than half the people admitted are unvaccinated. There are currently 2700 people taking up hospital beds. That's a shitload of resources and cost to the government not to mention thousands of people who need treatment for other ailments aren't getting any. Without vaccines that number would be 4, 5, 10 times higher. That fact alone is why it's worth vaccinating everyone. I cannot believe people still think we should only be vaccinating some people. Not to mention variants, which could be less or more severe, can emerge because the virus is still circulating. Another reason as to why everyone should be vaxxed. Not necessarily. All those unvaxxed people also have serious underlying health issues. The forecast is a worst case scenario. If we can gather the information that says unvaccinated completely healthy people under the age of 65 are taking up hospital and ICU beds, then you may have a point. But we don't have that info. I'm sure if they were all healthy we'd all hear about it. Unless you have seen anything that says unvaxed under 65 healthy people are taking up these beds?
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Butler99
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xVaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/ Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example. Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020. Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year. Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days. Governments have been pushing it too What about this from Dan Andrews. Pretty blunt. "The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today." "If you want to open up" ✅ "Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal. You're missing the point. The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal. Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal. They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal. Surely you can see the narrative has changed. It's quite obvious. That's the only point I am making. the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus. I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle. The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news. True but unfortunately they (politicians) are who we hear from and ultimately who actually make the decisions so it doesn't surprise me most people did think this to be the case. I know I did to a large degree. Not because I didn't know there were health experts saying something else, or policy experts/opposition saying something else but because the actual state leaders whose job it is to make the call sold it this way directly to the public from their vanity pulpit
Yeah I kind of assumed the vaccines would only largely prevent seriously illness. Not infection. Mostly because my partner got it early on and a close mate develops vaccines and explained the next few years pretty clearly to me.
At the end of the day there really is not total solution. It’s nature/science. It will do what it wants without a finish date. As much as that sucks we have unfortunately been unlucky enough to live through a pandemic.
And that is why mass vaccination, mandates and vaccine passports are obsolete. They do not achieve anything significant. AMnAMAMn This is demonstrably false and examples of what mass vaccination has allowed to happen have been given over and over again. If you're talking about restriction lifted then this is all to do with government decisions. Their rules. Mass vaccination mandates for kids under 18, sports industries, healthy people under 30, healthy people in general under 65 has made minimal difference. People have lost jobs for no reason. Taxpayer $$$ have been wasted on unnecessary jabs for people who didnt need it or didnt want it. Vaccination could have been simply focused at high risk industries, vulnerable people, the elderly, immunocompromised. Complete over reaction from government. Interesting figures from NSW health oday. "Of the 36 people who died; 33 people had received at least two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine, and three people were not vaccinated." https://twitter.com/NSWHealth/status/1483228787664101376?t=9AGld0VLJtuaOsSTKWjgPA&s=19"Older age is a significant risk factor for serious illness and death for COVID-19, particularly when combined with significant underlying health conditions." So everything you say about who is vulnerable is correct. Currently in NSW about 95% are fully vaccinated. More than half the people admitted are unvaccinated. There are currently 2700 people taking up hospital beds. That's a shitload of resources and cost to the government not to mention thousands of people who need treatment for other ailments aren't getting any. Without vaccines that number would be 4, 5, 10 times higher. That fact alone is why it's worth vaccinating everyone. I cannot believe people still think we should only be vaccinating some people. Not to mention variants, which could be less or more severe, can emerge because the virus is still circulating. Another reason as to why everyone should be vaxxed. Regarding the vaccine Pfizer ceo says double Vax helps a little, if at all. 3rd dose may help reduce symptoms only. Omicron Vax to be out by March/April. And people are still encouraged to take the current double dose?? How can you argue that is necessary for healthy young people?
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cesspit
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 357,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xVaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/ Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example. Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020. Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year. Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days. Governments have been pushing it too What about this from Dan Andrews. Pretty blunt. "The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today." "If you want to open up" ✅ "Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal. You're missing the point. The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal. Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal. They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal. Surely you can see the narrative has changed. It's quite obvious. That's the only point I am making. the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus. I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle. The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news. True but unfortunately they (politicians) are who we hear from and ultimately who actually make the decisions so it doesn't surprise me most people did think this to be the case. I know I did to a large degree. Not because I didn't know there were health experts saying something else, or policy experts/opposition saying something else but because the actual state leaders whose job it is to make the call sold it this way directly to the public from their vanity pulpit
Yeah I kind of assumed the vaccines would only largely prevent seriously illness. Not infection. Mostly because my partner got it early on and a close mate develops vaccines and explained the next few years pretty clearly to me.
At the end of the day there really is not total solution. It’s nature/science. It will do what it wants without a finish date. As much as that sucks we have unfortunately been unlucky enough to live through a pandemic.
And that is why mass vaccination, mandates and vaccine passports are obsolete. They do not achieve anything significant. AMnAMAMn This is demonstrably false and examples of what mass vaccination has allowed to happen have been given over and over again. If you're talking about restriction lifted then this is all to do with government decisions. Their rules. Mass vaccination mandates for kids under 18, sports industries, healthy people under 30, healthy people in general under 65 has made minimal difference. People have lost jobs for no reason. Taxpayer $$$ have been wasted on unnecessary jabs for people who didnt need it or didnt want it. Vaccination could have been simply focused at high risk industries, vulnerable people, the elderly, immunocompromised. Complete over reaction from government. Interesting figures from NSW health oday. "Of the 36 people who died; 33 people had received at least two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine, and three people were not vaccinated." https://twitter.com/NSWHealth/status/1483228787664101376?t=9AGld0VLJtuaOsSTKWjgPA&s=19"Older age is a significant risk factor for serious illness and death for COVID-19, particularly when combined with significant underlying health conditions." So everything you say about who is vulnerable is correct. Currently in NSW about 95% are fully vaccinated. More than half the people admitted are unvaccinated. There are currently 2700 people taking up hospital beds. That's a shitload of resources and cost to the government not to mention thousands of people who need treatment for other ailments aren't getting any. Without vaccines that number would be 4, 5, 10 times higher. That fact alone is why it's worth vaccinating everyone. I cannot believe people still think we should only be vaccinating some people. Not to mention variants, which could be less or more severe, can emerge because the virus is still circulating. Another reason as to why everyone should be vaxxed. Regarding the vaccine Pfizer ceo says double Vax helps a little, if at all. 3rd dose may help reduce symptoms only. Omicron Vax to be out by March/April. And people are still encouraged to take the current double dose?? How can you argue that is necessary for healthy young people? this has been debunked as he was taken out of context...also remember English is not his first language the experts all agree that the current dose will reduce your chances of ending up in ICU and the statistics support it
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sydneyfc1987
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xVaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/ Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example. Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020. Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year. Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days. Governments have been pushing it too What about this from Dan Andrews. Pretty blunt. "The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today." "If you want to open up" ✅ "Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal. You're missing the point. The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal. Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal. They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal. Surely you can see the narrative has changed. It's quite obvious. That's the only point I am making. the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus. I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle. The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news. True but unfortunately they (politicians) are who we hear from and ultimately who actually make the decisions so it doesn't surprise me most people did think this to be the case. I know I did to a large degree. Not because I didn't know there were health experts saying something else, or policy experts/opposition saying something else but because the actual state leaders whose job it is to make the call sold it this way directly to the public from their vanity pulpit
Yeah I kind of assumed the vaccines would only largely prevent seriously illness. Not infection. Mostly because my partner got it early on and a close mate develops vaccines and explained the next few years pretty clearly to me.
At the end of the day there really is not total solution. It’s nature/science. It will do what it wants without a finish date. As much as that sucks we have unfortunately been unlucky enough to live through a pandemic.
And that is why mass vaccination, mandates and vaccine passports are obsolete. They do not achieve anything significant. AMnAMAMn This is demonstrably false and examples of what mass vaccination has allowed to happen have been given over and over again. If you're talking about restriction lifted then this is all to do with government decisions. Their rules. Mass vaccination mandates for kids under 18, sports industries, healthy people under 30, healthy people in general under 65 has made minimal difference. People have lost jobs for no reason. Taxpayer $$$ have been wasted on unnecessary jabs for people who didnt need it or didnt want it. Vaccination could have been simply focused at high risk industries, vulnerable people, the elderly, immunocompromised. Complete over reaction from government. Interesting figures from NSW health oday. "Of the 36 people who died; 33 people had received at least two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine, and three people were not vaccinated." https://twitter.com/NSWHealth/status/1483228787664101376?t=9AGld0VLJtuaOsSTKWjgPA&s=19"Older age is a significant risk factor for serious illness and death for COVID-19, particularly when combined with significant underlying health conditions." So everything you say about who is vulnerable is correct. Currently in NSW about 95% are fully vaccinated. More than half the people admitted are unvaccinated. There are currently 2700 people taking up hospital beds. That's a shitload of resources and cost to the government not to mention thousands of people who need treatment for other ailments aren't getting any. Without vaccines that number would be 4, 5, 10 times higher. That fact alone is why it's worth vaccinating everyone. I cannot believe people still think we should only be vaccinating some people. Not to mention variants, which could be less or more severe, can emerge because the virus is still circulating. Another reason as to why everyone should be vaxxed. Regarding the vaccine Pfizer ceo says double Vax helps a little, if at all. 3rd dose may help reduce symptoms only. Omicron Vax to be out by March/April. 5% of the NSW population over 16 make up 50% of ICU cases so that is clearly not true.
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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Butler99
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xVaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/ Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example. Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020. Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year. Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days. Governments have been pushing it too What about this from Dan Andrews. Pretty blunt. "The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today." "If you want to open up" ✅ "Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal. You're missing the point. The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal. Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal. They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal. Surely you can see the narrative has changed. It's quite obvious. That's the only point I am making. the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus. I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle. The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news. True but unfortunately they (politicians) are who we hear from and ultimately who actually make the decisions so it doesn't surprise me most people did think this to be the case. I know I did to a large degree. Not because I didn't know there were health experts saying something else, or policy experts/opposition saying something else but because the actual state leaders whose job it is to make the call sold it this way directly to the public from their vanity pulpit
Yeah I kind of assumed the vaccines would only largely prevent seriously illness. Not infection. Mostly because my partner got it early on and a close mate develops vaccines and explained the next few years pretty clearly to me.
At the end of the day there really is not total solution. It’s nature/science. It will do what it wants without a finish date. As much as that sucks we have unfortunately been unlucky enough to live through a pandemic.
And that is why mass vaccination, mandates and vaccine passports are obsolete. They do not achieve anything significant. AMnAMAMn This is demonstrably false and examples of what mass vaccination has allowed to happen have been given over and over again. If you're talking about restriction lifted then this is all to do with government decisions. Their rules. Mass vaccination mandates for kids under 18, sports industries, healthy people under 30, healthy people in general under 65 has made minimal difference. People have lost jobs for no reason. Taxpayer $$$ have been wasted on unnecessary jabs for people who didnt need it or didnt want it. Vaccination could have been simply focused at high risk industries, vulnerable people, the elderly, immunocompromised. Complete over reaction from government. Interesting figures from NSW health oday. "Of the 36 people who died; 33 people had received at least two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine, and three people were not vaccinated." https://twitter.com/NSWHealth/status/1483228787664101376?t=9AGld0VLJtuaOsSTKWjgPA&s=19"Older age is a significant risk factor for serious illness and death for COVID-19, particularly when combined with significant underlying health conditions." So everything you say about who is vulnerable is correct. Currently in NSW about 95% are fully vaccinated. More than half the people admitted are unvaccinated. There are currently 2700 people taking up hospital beds. That's a shitload of resources and cost to the government not to mention thousands of people who need treatment for other ailments aren't getting any. Without vaccines that number would be 4, 5, 10 times higher. That fact alone is why it's worth vaccinating everyone. I cannot believe people still think we should only be vaccinating some people. Not to mention variants, which could be less or more severe, can emerge because the virus is still circulating. Another reason as to why everyone should be vaxxed. Regarding the vaccine Pfizer ceo says double Vax helps a little, if at all. 3rd dose may help reduce symptoms only. Omicron Vax to be out by March/April. 5% of the NSW population over 16 make up 50% of ICU cases so that is clearly not true. So you don't trust the pharmaceutical companies now? https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/pfizer-boss-says-two-doses-provides-limited-protection-if-any-against-omicron/news-story/9d76126d080e2010f05eb0b4ae5e0c45
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Butler99
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1K,
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Then there is already this from an Israeli preliminary study. "A fourth dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was insufficient to prevent infection with the omicron variant of Covid-19, according to preliminary data from a trial in Israel released Monday" https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-17/israel-trial-suggests-4th-dose-not-warding-off-omicron-infectionPerhaps best to wait for the omicron specific booster from Pfizer come March/April??
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Butler99
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xVaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/ Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example. Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020. Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year. Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days. Governments have been pushing it too What about this from Dan Andrews. Pretty blunt. "The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today." "If you want to open up" ✅ "Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal. You're missing the point. The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal. Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal. They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal. Surely you can see the narrative has changed. It's quite obvious. That's the only point I am making. the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus. I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle. The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news. True but unfortunately they (politicians) are who we hear from and ultimately who actually make the decisions so it doesn't surprise me most people did think this to be the case. I know I did to a large degree. Not because I didn't know there were health experts saying something else, or policy experts/opposition saying something else but because the actual state leaders whose job it is to make the call sold it this way directly to the public from their vanity pulpit
Yeah I kind of assumed the vaccines would only largely prevent seriously illness. Not infection. Mostly because my partner got it early on and a close mate develops vaccines and explained the next few years pretty clearly to me.
At the end of the day there really is not total solution. It’s nature/science. It will do what it wants without a finish date. As much as that sucks we have unfortunately been unlucky enough to live through a pandemic.
And that is why mass vaccination, mandates and vaccine passports are obsolete. They do not achieve anything significant. AMnAMAMn This is demonstrably false and examples of what mass vaccination has allowed to happen have been given over and over again. If you're talking about restriction lifted then this is all to do with government decisions. Their rules. Mass vaccination mandates for kids under 18, sports industries, healthy people under 30, healthy people in general under 65 has made minimal difference. People have lost jobs for no reason. Taxpayer $$$ have been wasted on unnecessary jabs for people who didnt need it or didnt want it. Vaccination could have been simply focused at high risk industries, vulnerable people, the elderly, immunocompromised. Complete over reaction from government. Interesting figures from NSW health oday. "Of the 36 people who died; 33 people had received at least two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine, and three people were not vaccinated." https://twitter.com/NSWHealth/status/1483228787664101376?t=9AGld0VLJtuaOsSTKWjgPA&s=19"Older age is a significant risk factor for serious illness and death for COVID-19, particularly when combined with significant underlying health conditions." So everything you say about who is vulnerable is correct. Currently in NSW about 95% are fully vaccinated. More than half the people admitted are unvaccinated. There are currently 2700 people taking up hospital beds. That's a shitload of resources and cost to the government not to mention thousands of people who need treatment for other ailments aren't getting any. Without vaccines that number would be 4, 5, 10 times higher. That fact alone is why it's worth vaccinating everyone. I cannot believe people still think we should only be vaccinating some people. Not to mention variants, which could be less or more severe, can emerge because the virus is still circulating. Another reason as to why everyone should be vaxxed. Regarding the vaccine Pfizer ceo says double Vax helps a little, if at all. 3rd dose may help reduce symptoms only. Omicron Vax to be out by March/April. 5% of the NSW population over 16 make up 50% of ICU cases so that is clearly not true. So you don't trust the pharmaceutical companies now? https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/pfizer-boss-says-two-doses-provides-limited-protection-if-any-against-omicron/news-story/9d76126d080e2010f05eb0b4ae5e0c45 Also this from the article regarding mandates. Once again, mandates are obsolete. They pointed to the World Health Organisation’s (WHO) position on vaccine mandates, which states that “if mandatory vaccination is considered necessary to interrupt transmission chains and prevent harm to others, there should be sufficient evidence that the vaccine is efficacious in preventing serious infection and/or transmission”. For Omicron, they noted, “there is as yet no such evidence” and moreover, “the little data we have suggests the opposite”.
“One preprint study found that after 30 days the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines no longer had any statistically significant positive effect against Omicron infection, and after 90 days, their effect went negative – i.e. vaccinated people were more susceptible to Omicron infection,” they wrote.
“Confirming this negative efficacy finding, data from Denmark and the Canadian province of Ontario indicate that vaccinated people have higher rates of Omicron infection than unvaccinated people.”
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dirk vanadidas
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.9K,
Visits: 0
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UK freedom of information request Deaths from covid only 17000
Death with covid within 28 days of positive test and other comorbities 170,000
Currently over 50 Per cent with covid in hospital went in for other treatments before testing for covid
Over 30 per cent of deaths with covid in hospital caught covid in hospital
The unintended consequence was a large increase in deaths at home with other cause s as population scared to go to hospital for treatment
Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club
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sydneyfc1987
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xVaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/ Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example. Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020. Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year. Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days. Governments have been pushing it too What about this from Dan Andrews. Pretty blunt. "The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today." "If you want to open up" ✅ "Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal. You're missing the point. The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal. Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal. They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal. Surely you can see the narrative has changed. It's quite obvious. That's the only point I am making. the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus. I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle. The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news. True but unfortunately they (politicians) are who we hear from and ultimately who actually make the decisions so it doesn't surprise me most people did think this to be the case. I know I did to a large degree. Not because I didn't know there were health experts saying something else, or policy experts/opposition saying something else but because the actual state leaders whose job it is to make the call sold it this way directly to the public from their vanity pulpit
Yeah I kind of assumed the vaccines would only largely prevent seriously illness. Not infection. Mostly because my partner got it early on and a close mate develops vaccines and explained the next few years pretty clearly to me.
At the end of the day there really is not total solution. It’s nature/science. It will do what it wants without a finish date. As much as that sucks we have unfortunately been unlucky enough to live through a pandemic.
And that is why mass vaccination, mandates and vaccine passports are obsolete. They do not achieve anything significant. AMnAMAMn This is demonstrably false and examples of what mass vaccination has allowed to happen have been given over and over again. If you're talking about restriction lifted then this is all to do with government decisions. Their rules. Mass vaccination mandates for kids under 18, sports industries, healthy people under 30, healthy people in general under 65 has made minimal difference. People have lost jobs for no reason. Taxpayer $$$ have been wasted on unnecessary jabs for people who didnt need it or didnt want it. Vaccination could have been simply focused at high risk industries, vulnerable people, the elderly, immunocompromised. Complete over reaction from government. Interesting figures from NSW health oday. "Of the 36 people who died; 33 people had received at least two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine, and three people were not vaccinated." https://twitter.com/NSWHealth/status/1483228787664101376?t=9AGld0VLJtuaOsSTKWjgPA&s=19"Older age is a significant risk factor for serious illness and death for COVID-19, particularly when combined with significant underlying health conditions." So everything you say about who is vulnerable is correct. Currently in NSW about 95% are fully vaccinated. More than half the people admitted are unvaccinated. There are currently 2700 people taking up hospital beds. That's a shitload of resources and cost to the government not to mention thousands of people who need treatment for other ailments aren't getting any. Without vaccines that number would be 4, 5, 10 times higher. That fact alone is why it's worth vaccinating everyone. I cannot believe people still think we should only be vaccinating some people. Not to mention variants, which could be less or more severe, can emerge because the virus is still circulating. Another reason as to why everyone should be vaxxed. Regarding the vaccine Pfizer ceo says double Vax helps a little, if at all. 3rd dose may help reduce symptoms only. Omicron Vax to be out by March/April. 5% of the NSW population over 16 make up 50% of ICU cases so that is clearly not true. So you don't trust the pharmaceutical companies now? https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/pfizer-boss-says-two-doses-provides-limited-protection-if-any-against-omicron/news-story/9d76126d080e2010f05eb0b4ae5e0c45 Not really, no. Are you saying I should? I put my trust in science and data which has proven two doses is still effective against severe disease.
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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sydneyfc1987
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K,
Visits: 0
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+xUK freedom of information request Deaths from covid only 17000
Death with covid within 28 days of positive test and other comorbities 170,000
Yep. as we know, people with high blood pressure or asthma are not human beings and should be ignored when it comes to COVID death tolls.
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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tsf
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 14K,
Visits: 0
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+x+xUK freedom of information request Deaths from covid only 17000
Death with covid within 28 days of positive test and other comorbities 170,000
Yep. as we know, people with high blood pressure or asthma are not human beings and should be ignored when it comes to COVID death tolls. Or pregnant.
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tsf
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 14K,
Visits: 0
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“I trust my immune system bro” https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.foxsports.com.au/more-sports/little-virus-antivaxxer-dies-after-discharging-himself-from-hospital/news-story/64f540250aedb22da698b3639e00bdbfI have been in kickboxing/muay Thai myself for a long time and the amount of pea brains in the scene who think they’re medical experts. Utterly pointless death.
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sydneyfc1987
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K,
Visits: 0
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Almost surprised John Smith or Dirk didn't post this as proof of the vaccines causing heart attacks.
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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Burztur
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xVaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/ Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example. Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020. Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year. Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days. Governments have been pushing it too What about this from Dan Andrews. Pretty blunt. "The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today." "If you want to open up" ✅ "Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal. You're missing the point. The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal. Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal. They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal. Surely you can see the narrative has changed. It's quite obvious. That's the only point I am making. the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus. I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle. The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news. True but unfortunately they (politicians) are who we hear from and ultimately who actually make the decisions so it doesn't surprise me most people did think this to be the case. I know I did to a large degree. Not because I didn't know there were health experts saying something else, or policy experts/opposition saying something else but because the actual state leaders whose job it is to make the call sold it this way directly to the public from their vanity pulpit
Yeah I kind of assumed the vaccines would only largely prevent seriously illness. Not infection. Mostly because my partner got it early on and a close mate develops vaccines and explained the next few years pretty clearly to me.
At the end of the day there really is not total solution. It’s nature/science. It will do what it wants without a finish date. As much as that sucks we have unfortunately been unlucky enough to live through a pandemic.
And that is why mass vaccination, mandates and vaccine passports are obsolete. They do not achieve anything significant. AMnAMAMn This is demonstrably false and examples of what mass vaccination has allowed to happen have been given over and over again. If you're talking about restriction lifted then this is all to do with government decisions. Their rules. Mass vaccination mandates for kids under 18, sports industries, healthy people under 30, healthy people in general under 65 has made minimal difference. People have lost jobs for no reason. Taxpayer $$$ have been wasted on unnecessary jabs for people who didnt need it or didnt want it. Vaccination could have been simply focused at high risk industries, vulnerable people, the elderly, immunocompromised. Complete over reaction from government. Interesting figures from NSW health oday. "Of the 36 people who died; 33 people had received at least two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine, and three people were not vaccinated." https://twitter.com/NSWHealth/status/1483228787664101376?t=9AGld0VLJtuaOsSTKWjgPA&s=19"Older age is a significant risk factor for serious illness and death for COVID-19, particularly when combined with significant underlying health conditions." So everything you say about who is vulnerable is correct. Currently in NSW about 95% are fully vaccinated. More than half the people admitted are unvaccinated. There are currently 2700 people taking up hospital beds. That's a shitload of resources and cost to the government not to mention thousands of people who need treatment for other ailments aren't getting any. Without vaccines that number would be 4, 5, 10 times higher. That fact alone is why it's worth vaccinating everyone. I cannot believe people still think we should only be vaccinating some people. Not to mention variants, which could be less or more severe, can emerge because the virus is still circulating. Another reason as to why everyone should be vaxxed. Regarding the vaccine Pfizer ceo says double Vax helps a little, if at all. 3rd dose may help reduce symptoms only. Omicron Vax to be out by March/April. 5% of the NSW population over 16 make up 50% of ICU cases so that is clearly not true. So you don't trust the pharmaceutical companies now? https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/pfizer-boss-says-two-doses-provides-limited-protection-if-any-against-omicron/news-story/9d76126d080e2010f05eb0b4ae5e0c45 This is from the News article at the end: The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines – both of which have been distributed in Australia – are only about 10 per cent effective at preventing symptomatic infection from Omicron 20 weeks after the second dose, a study from the UK Health Security Agency found. While two doses still provide good protection against severe illness, the study found that booster shots increased protection against symptomatic infection to 75 per cent. Pfizer claims its own studies show a third dose of its vaccine produces a 25-fold increase in neutralising antibodies against the new strain. So boosters help.
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Burztur
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xVaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/ Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example. Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020. Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year. Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days. Governments have been pushing it too What about this from Dan Andrews. Pretty blunt. "The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today." "If you want to open up" ✅ "Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal. You're missing the point. The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal. Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal. They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal. Surely you can see the narrative has changed. It's quite obvious. That's the only point I am making. the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus. I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle. The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news. True but unfortunately they (politicians) are who we hear from and ultimately who actually make the decisions so it doesn't surprise me most people did think this to be the case. I know I did to a large degree. Not because I didn't know there were health experts saying something else, or policy experts/opposition saying something else but because the actual state leaders whose job it is to make the call sold it this way directly to the public from their vanity pulpit
Yeah I kind of assumed the vaccines would only largely prevent seriously illness. Not infection. Mostly because my partner got it early on and a close mate develops vaccines and explained the next few years pretty clearly to me.
At the end of the day there really is not total solution. It’s nature/science. It will do what it wants without a finish date. As much as that sucks we have unfortunately been unlucky enough to live through a pandemic.
And that is why mass vaccination, mandates and vaccine passports are obsolete. They do not achieve anything significant. AMnAMAMn This is demonstrably false and examples of what mass vaccination has allowed to happen have been given over and over again. If you're talking about restriction lifted then this is all to do with government decisions. Their rules. Mass vaccination mandates for kids under 18, sports industries, healthy people under 30, healthy people in general under 65 has made minimal difference. People have lost jobs for no reason. Taxpayer $$$ have been wasted on unnecessary jabs for people who didnt need it or didnt want it. Vaccination could have been simply focused at high risk industries, vulnerable people, the elderly, immunocompromised. Complete over reaction from government. Interesting figures from NSW health oday. "Of the 36 people who died; 33 people had received at least two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine, and three people were not vaccinated." https://twitter.com/NSWHealth/status/1483228787664101376?t=9AGld0VLJtuaOsSTKWjgPA&s=19"Older age is a significant risk factor for serious illness and death for COVID-19, particularly when combined with significant underlying health conditions." So everything you say about who is vulnerable is correct. Currently in NSW about 95% are fully vaccinated. More than half the people admitted are unvaccinated. There are currently 2700 people taking up hospital beds. That's a shitload of resources and cost to the government not to mention thousands of people who need treatment for other ailments aren't getting any. Without vaccines that number would be 4, 5, 10 times higher. That fact alone is why it's worth vaccinating everyone. I cannot believe people still think we should only be vaccinating some people. Not to mention variants, which could be less or more severe, can emerge because the virus is still circulating. Another reason as to why everyone should be vaxxed. Regarding the vaccine Pfizer ceo says double Vax helps a little, if at all. 3rd dose may help reduce symptoms only. Omicron Vax to be out by March/April. 5% of the NSW population over 16 make up 50% of ICU cases so that is clearly not true. So you don't trust the pharmaceutical companies now? https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/pfizer-boss-says-two-doses-provides-limited-protection-if-any-against-omicron/news-story/9d76126d080e2010f05eb0b4ae5e0c45 Also this from the article regarding mandates. Once again, mandates are obsolete. They pointed to the World Health Organisation’s (WHO) position on vaccine mandates, which states that “if mandatory vaccination is considered necessary to interrupt transmission chains and prevent harm to others, there should be sufficient evidence that the vaccine is efficacious in preventing serious infection and/or transmission”. For Omicron, they noted, “there is as yet no such evidence” and moreover, “the little data we have suggests the opposite”.
“One preprint study found that after 30 days the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines no longer had any statistically significant positive effect against Omicron infection, and after 90 days, their effect went negative – i.e. vaccinated people were more susceptible to Omicron infection,” they wrote.
“Confirming this negative efficacy finding, data from Denmark and the Canadian province of Ontario indicate that vaccinated people have higher rates of Omicron infection than unvaccinated people.” Will you change your position in March when Pfizer releases their Omicron specific vaccine?
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