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tsf
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 14K,
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+xAlmost surprised John Smith or Dirk didn't post this as proof of the vaccines causing heart attacks. A guy I used to spar with is now in icu and he’s super fit. Also there was a Caucasus UFC guy recently who posted pics of himself vomiting blood from covid….
maybe they can link them, they were not vaccinated but that does not matter
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Butler99
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xVaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read [quote]There is a massive vaccine and drug development effort, so it is almost certain we will have better vaccine options, including ones that are variant-proof. But what the past month has shown us is we cannot live with unmitigated Covid-19. Vaccinations will not be enough. We need a ventilation and vaccine-plus strategy to avoid the disruptive epidemic cycle, to protect health and the economy, and to regain a semblance of the life we all want. https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/opinion/topic/2022/01/15/why-covid-19-will-never-become-endemic/164216520013155 It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/ Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example. Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020. Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year. Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days. Governments have been pushing it too What about this from Dan Andrews. Pretty blunt. "The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today." "If you want to open up" ✅ "Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal. You're missing the point. The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal. Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal. They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal. Surely you can see the narrative has changed. It's quite obvious. That's the only point I am making. the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus. I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle. The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news. True but unfortunately they (politicians) are who we hear from and ultimately who actually make the decisions so it doesn't surprise me most people did think this to be the case. I know I did to a large degree. Not because I didn't know there were health experts saying something else, or policy experts/opposition saying something else but because the actual state leaders whose job it is to make the call sold it this way directly to the public from their vanity pulpit
Yeah I kind of assumed the vaccines would only largely prevent seriously illness. Not infection. Mostly because my partner got it early on and a close mate develops vaccines and explained the next few years pretty clearly to me.
At the end of the day there really is not total solution. It’s nature/science. It will do what it wants without a finish date. As much as that sucks we have unfortunately been unlucky enough to live through a pandemic.
And that is why mass vaccination, mandates and vaccine passports are obsolete. They do not achieve anything significant. AMnAMAMn This is demonstrably false and examples of what mass vaccination has allowed to happen have been given over and over again. If you're talking about restriction lifted then this is all to do with government decisions. Their rules. Mass vaccination mandates for kids under 18, sports industries, healthy people under 30, healthy people in general under 65 has made minimal difference. People have lost jobs for no reason. Taxpayer $$$ have been wasted on unnecessary jabs for people who didnt need it or didnt want it. Vaccination could have been simply focused at high risk industries, vulnerable people, the elderly, immunocompromised. Complete over reaction from government. Interesting figures from NSW health oday. "Of the 36 people who died; 33 people had received at least two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine, and three people were not vaccinated." https://twitter.com/NSWHealth/status/1483228787664101376?t=9AGld0VLJtuaOsSTKWjgPA&s=19"Older age is a significant risk factor for serious illness and death for COVID-19, particularly when combined with significant underlying health conditions." So everything you say about who is vulnerable is correct. Currently in NSW about 95% are fully vaccinated. More than half the people admitted are unvaccinated. There are currently 2700 people taking up hospital beds. That's a shitload of resources and cost to the government not to mention thousands of people who need treatment for other ailments aren't getting any. Without vaccines that number would be 4, 5, 10 times higher. That fact alone is why it's worth vaccinating everyone. I cannot believe people still think we should only be vaccinating some people. Not to mention variants, which could be less or more severe, can emerge because the virus is still circulating. Another reason as to why everyone should be vaxxed. Regarding the vaccine Pfizer ceo says double Vax helps a little, if at all. 3rd dose may help reduce symptoms only. Omicron Vax to be out by March/April. 5% of the NSW population over 16 make up 50% of ICU cases so that is clearly not true. So you don't trust the pharmaceutical companies now? https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/pfizer-boss-says-two-doses-provides-limited-protection-if-any-against-omicron/news-story/9d76126d080e2010f05eb0b4ae5e0c45 Also this from the article regarding mandates. Once again, mandates are obsolete. They pointed to the World Health Organisation’s (WHO) position on vaccine mandates, which states that “if mandatory vaccination is considered necessary to interrupt transmission chains and prevent harm to others, there should be sufficient evidence that the vaccine is efficacious in preventing serious infection and/or transmission”. For Omicron, they noted, “there is as yet no such evidence” and moreover, “the little data we have suggests the opposite”.
“One preprint study found that after 30 days the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines no longer had any statistically significant positive effect against Omicron infection, and after 90 days, their effect went negative – i.e. vaccinated people were more susceptible to Omicron infection,” they wrote.
“Confirming this negative efficacy finding, data from Denmark and the Canadian province of Ontario indicate that vaccinated people have higher rates of Omicron infection than unvaccinated people.” Will you change your position in March when Pfizer releases their Omicron specific vaccine? My position is no mass vaccination, no vaccine passports no vaccine mandates. That position won't change unless the vaccination becomes a sterilising vaccine. I'm all for COVID vaccines if you and your doctor think it is better for your health. That's common sense. The only question come March time is that we've probably all have had a case of omicron by then. So may be too late?
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sydneyfc1987
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]Vaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read [quote]There is a massive vaccine and drug development effort, so it is almost certain we will have better vaccine options, including ones that are variant-proof. But what the past month has shown us is we cannot live with unmitigated Covid-19. Vaccinations will not be enough. We need a ventilation and vaccine-plus strategy to avoid the disruptive epidemic cycle, to protect health and the economy, and to regain a semblance of the life we all want. https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/opinion/topic/2022/01/15/why-covid-19-will-never-become-endemic/164216520013155 It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/ Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example. Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020. Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year. Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days. Governments have been pushing it too What about this from Dan Andrews. Pretty blunt. "The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today." "If you want to open up" ✅ "Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal. You're missing the point. The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal. Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal. They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal. Surely you can see the narrative has changed. It's quite obvious. That's the only point I am making. the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus. I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle. The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news. True but unfortunately they (politicians) are who we hear from and ultimately who actually make the decisions so it doesn't surprise me most people did think this to be the case. I know I did to a large degree. Not because I didn't know there were health experts saying something else, or policy experts/opposition saying something else but because the actual state leaders whose job it is to make the call sold it this way directly to the public from their vanity pulpit
Yeah I kind of assumed the vaccines would only largely prevent seriously illness. Not infection. Mostly because my partner got it early on and a close mate develops vaccines and explained the next few years pretty clearly to me.
At the end of the day there really is not total solution. It’s nature/science. It will do what it wants without a finish date. As much as that sucks we have unfortunately been unlucky enough to live through a pandemic.
And that is why mass vaccination, mandates and vaccine passports are obsolete. They do not achieve anything significant. AMnAMAMn This is demonstrably false and examples of what mass vaccination has allowed to happen have been given over and over again. If you're talking about restriction lifted then this is all to do with government decisions. Their rules. Mass vaccination mandates for kids under 18, sports industries, healthy people under 30, healthy people in general under 65 has made minimal difference. People have lost jobs for no reason. Taxpayer $$$ have been wasted on unnecessary jabs for people who didnt need it or didnt want it. Vaccination could have been simply focused at high risk industries, vulnerable people, the elderly, immunocompromised. Complete over reaction from government. Interesting figures from NSW health oday. "Of the 36 people who died; 33 people had received at least two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine, and three people were not vaccinated." https://twitter.com/NSWHealth/status/1483228787664101376?t=9AGld0VLJtuaOsSTKWjgPA&s=19"Older age is a significant risk factor for serious illness and death for COVID-19, particularly when combined with significant underlying health conditions." So everything you say about who is vulnerable is correct. Currently in NSW about 95% are fully vaccinated. More than half the people admitted are unvaccinated. There are currently 2700 people taking up hospital beds. That's a shitload of resources and cost to the government not to mention thousands of people who need treatment for other ailments aren't getting any. Without vaccines that number would be 4, 5, 10 times higher. That fact alone is why it's worth vaccinating everyone. I cannot believe people still think we should only be vaccinating some people. Not to mention variants, which could be less or more severe, can emerge because the virus is still circulating. Another reason as to why everyone should be vaxxed. Regarding the vaccine Pfizer ceo says double Vax helps a little, if at all. 3rd dose may help reduce symptoms only. Omicron Vax to be out by March/April. 5% of the NSW population over 16 make up 50% of ICU cases so that is clearly not true. So you don't trust the pharmaceutical companies now? https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/pfizer-boss-says-two-doses-provides-limited-protection-if-any-against-omicron/news-story/9d76126d080e2010f05eb0b4ae5e0c45 Also this from the article regarding mandates. Once again, mandates are obsolete. They pointed to the World Health Organisation’s (WHO) position on vaccine mandates, which states that “if mandatory vaccination is considered necessary to interrupt transmission chains and prevent harm to others, there should be sufficient evidence that the vaccine is efficacious in preventing serious infection and/or transmission”. For Omicron, they noted, “there is as yet no such evidence” and moreover, “the little data we have suggests the opposite”.
“One preprint study found that after 30 days the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines no longer had any statistically significant positive effect against Omicron infection, and after 90 days, their effect went negative – i.e. vaccinated people were more susceptible to Omicron infection,” they wrote.
“Confirming this negative efficacy finding, data from Denmark and the Canadian province of Ontario indicate that vaccinated people have higher rates of Omicron infection than unvaccinated people.” Will you change your position in March when Pfizer releases their Omicron specific vaccine? [/quote]My position is no mass vaccination, no vaccine passports no vaccine mandates. That position won't change. With people like you in the world it's a real wonder how we managed to eradicate smallpox
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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Butler99
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]+x[quote]Vaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read [quote]There is a massive vaccine and drug development effort, so it is almost certain we will have better vaccine options, including ones that are variant-proof. But what the past month has shown us is we cannot live with unmitigated Covid-19. Vaccinations will not be enough. We need a ventilation and vaccine-plus strategy to avoid the disruptive epidemic cycle, to protect health and the economy, and to regain a semblance of the life we all want. https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/opinion/topic/2022/01/15/why-covid-19-will-never-become-endemic/164216520013155 It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/
Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example.
Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020.
Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year.
Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days.
Governments have been pushing it too
What about this from Dan Andrews.
Pretty blunt.
"The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today."
"Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal.
You're missing the point.
The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal.
Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal.
They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal.
Surely you can see the narrative has changed.
It's quite obvious.
That's the only point I am making.
the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal
vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus.
I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle.
The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news.
True but unfortunately they (politicians) are who we hear from and ultimately who actually make the decisions so it doesn't surprise me most people did think this to be the case.
I know I did to a large degree.
Not because I didn't know there were health experts saying something else, or policy experts/opposition saying something else but because the actual state leaders whose job it is to make the call sold it this way directly to the public from their vanity pulpit
Yeah I kind of assumed the vaccines would only largely prevent seriously illness. Not infection. Mostly because my partner got it early on and a close mate develops vaccines and explained the next few years pretty clearly to me.
At the end of the day there really is not total solution. It’s nature/science. It will do what it wants without a finish date. As much as that sucks we have unfortunately been unlucky enough to live through a pandemic.
And that is why mass vaccination, mandates and vaccine passports are obsolete.
They do not achieve anything significant.
This is demonstrably false and examples of what mass vaccination has allowed to happen have been given over and over again.
If you're talking about restriction lifted then this is all to do with government decisions.
Their rules.
Mass vaccination mandates for kids under 18, sports industries, healthy people under 30, healthy people in general under 65 has made minimal difference.
People have lost jobs for no reason. Taxpayer $$$ have been wasted on unnecessary jabs for people who didnt need it or didnt want it.
Vaccination could have been simply focused at high risk industries, vulnerable people, the elderly, immunocompromised.
Complete over reaction from government.
Interesting figures from NSW health oday.
"Of the 36 people who died; 33 people had received at least two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine, and three people were not vaccinated."
https://twitter.com/NSWHealth/status/1483228787664101376?t=9AGld0VLJtuaOsSTKWjgPA&s=19
"Older age is a significant risk factor for serious illness and death for COVID-19, particularly when combined with significant underlying health conditions."
So everything you say about who is vulnerable is correct. Currently in NSW about 95% are fully vaccinated. More than half the people admitted are unvaccinated. There are currently 2700 people taking up hospital beds. That's a shitload of resources and cost to the government not to mention thousands of people who need treatment for other ailments aren't getting any.
Without vaccines that number would be 4, 5, 10 times higher.
That fact alone is why it's worth vaccinating everyone.
I cannot believe people still think we should only be vaccinating some people.
Not to mention variants, which could be less or more severe, can emerge because the virus is still circulating. Another reason as to why everyone should be vaxxed.
Regarding the vaccine
Pfizer ceo says double Vax helps a little, if at all.
3rd dose may help reduce symptoms only.
Omicron Vax to be out by March/April.
5% of the NSW population over 16 make up 50% of ICU cases so that is clearly not true.
So you don't trust the pharmaceutical companies now?
https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/pfizer-boss-says-two-doses-provides-limited-protection-if-any-against-omicron/news-story/9d76126d080e2010f05eb0b4ae5e0c45
Also this from the article regarding mandates.
Once again, mandates are obsolete.
They pointed to the World Health Organisation’s (WHO) position on vaccine mandates, which states that “if mandatory vaccination is considered necessary to interrupt transmission chains and prevent harm to others, there should be sufficient evidence that the vaccine is efficacious in preventing serious infection and/or transmission”.
For Omicron, they noted, “there is as yet no such evidence” and moreover, “the little data we have suggests the opposite”.
“One preprint study found that after 30 days the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines no longer had any statistically significant positive effect against Omicron infection, and after 90 days, their effect went negative – i.e. vaccinated people were more susceptible to Omicron infection,” they wrote.
“Confirming this negative efficacy finding, data from Denmark and the Canadian province of Ontario indicate that vaccinated people have higher rates of Omicron infection than unvaccinated people.”
Will you change your position in March when Pfizer releases their Omicron specific vaccine? My position is no mass vaccination, no vaccine passports no vaccine mandates. That position won't change. [/quote]With people like you in the world it's a real wonder how we managed to eradicate smallpox Apologies. I did update my comment. Until the vaccine becomes a sterilising vaccine. And its common knowledge the Covid vaccines are nowhere near sterilising.
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tsf
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 14K,
Visits: 0
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So Djokovic was such a massive danger and threat to the australian public the head of govt had to intervene to deport him immediately
yet, that fat bludging manila sex bar addict christensen can publically go against health policy and whip up anti-vaccine hysteria to his simpleton followers, and suddenly it's a free country according the the LNP and we shouldnt listen to him - what? A govt minister?
The utter hypocrisy of these pricks.
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Burztur
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]Vaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read [quote]There is a massive vaccine and drug development effort, so it is almost certain we will have better vaccine options, including ones that are variant-proof. But what the past month has shown us is we cannot live with unmitigated Covid-19. Vaccinations will not be enough. We need a ventilation and vaccine-plus strategy to avoid the disruptive epidemic cycle, to protect health and the economy, and to regain a semblance of the life we all want. https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/opinion/topic/2022/01/15/why-covid-19-will-never-become-endemic/164216520013155 It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/ Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example. Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020. Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year. Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days. Governments have been pushing it too What about this from Dan Andrews. Pretty blunt. "The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today." "If you want to open up" ✅ "Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal. You're missing the point. The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal. Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal. They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal. Surely you can see the narrative has changed. It's quite obvious. That's the only point I am making. the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus. I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle. The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news. True but unfortunately they (politicians) are who we hear from and ultimately who actually make the decisions so it doesn't surprise me most people did think this to be the case. I know I did to a large degree. Not because I didn't know there were health experts saying something else, or policy experts/opposition saying something else but because the actual state leaders whose job it is to make the call sold it this way directly to the public from their vanity pulpit
Yeah I kind of assumed the vaccines would only largely prevent seriously illness. Not infection. Mostly because my partner got it early on and a close mate develops vaccines and explained the next few years pretty clearly to me.
At the end of the day there really is not total solution. It’s nature/science. It will do what it wants without a finish date. As much as that sucks we have unfortunately been unlucky enough to live through a pandemic.
And that is why mass vaccination, mandates and vaccine passports are obsolete. They do not achieve anything significant. AMnAMAMn This is demonstrably false and examples of what mass vaccination has allowed to happen have been given over and over again. If you're talking about restriction lifted then this is all to do with government decisions. Their rules. Mass vaccination mandates for kids under 18, sports industries, healthy people under 30, healthy people in general under 65 has made minimal difference. People have lost jobs for no reason. Taxpayer $$$ have been wasted on unnecessary jabs for people who didnt need it or didnt want it. Vaccination could have been simply focused at high risk industries, vulnerable people, the elderly, immunocompromised. Complete over reaction from government. Interesting figures from NSW health oday. "Of the 36 people who died; 33 people had received at least two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine, and three people were not vaccinated." https://twitter.com/NSWHealth/status/1483228787664101376?t=9AGld0VLJtuaOsSTKWjgPA&s=19"Older age is a significant risk factor for serious illness and death for COVID-19, particularly when combined with significant underlying health conditions." So everything you say about who is vulnerable is correct. Currently in NSW about 95% are fully vaccinated. More than half the people admitted are unvaccinated. There are currently 2700 people taking up hospital beds. That's a shitload of resources and cost to the government not to mention thousands of people who need treatment for other ailments aren't getting any. Without vaccines that number would be 4, 5, 10 times higher. That fact alone is why it's worth vaccinating everyone. I cannot believe people still think we should only be vaccinating some people. Not to mention variants, which could be less or more severe, can emerge because the virus is still circulating. Another reason as to why everyone should be vaxxed. Regarding the vaccine Pfizer ceo says double Vax helps a little, if at all. 3rd dose may help reduce symptoms only. Omicron Vax to be out by March/April. 5% of the NSW population over 16 make up 50% of ICU cases so that is clearly not true. So you don't trust the pharmaceutical companies now? https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/pfizer-boss-says-two-doses-provides-limited-protection-if-any-against-omicron/news-story/9d76126d080e2010f05eb0b4ae5e0c45 Also this from the article regarding mandates. Once again, mandates are obsolete. They pointed to the World Health Organisation’s (WHO) position on vaccine mandates, which states that “if mandatory vaccination is considered necessary to interrupt transmission chains and prevent harm to others, there should be sufficient evidence that the vaccine is efficacious in preventing serious infection and/or transmission”. For Omicron, they noted, “there is as yet no such evidence” and moreover, “the little data we have suggests the opposite”.
“One preprint study found that after 30 days the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines no longer had any statistically significant positive effect against Omicron infection, and after 90 days, their effect went negative – i.e. vaccinated people were more susceptible to Omicron infection,” they wrote.
“Confirming this negative efficacy finding, data from Denmark and the Canadian province of Ontario indicate that vaccinated people have higher rates of Omicron infection than unvaccinated people.” Will you change your position in March when Pfizer releases their Omicron specific vaccine? [/quote]My position is no mass vaccination, no vaccine passports no vaccine mandates. That position won't change unless the vaccination becomes a sterilising vaccine. I'm all for COVID vaccines if you and your doctor think it is better for your health. That's common sense. The only question come March time is that we've probably all have had a case of omicron by then. So may be too late? Can you define "no mass vaccination", "no vaccine passports" and "no vaccine mandates"? Chances are, your doctor will recommend that you and almost everyone take the vaccine - so that's mass vaccination. Vaccine passports are already in effect even before COVID with Medicare, the Immunisation Register and now the Services app. Vaccine mandates are only proposed in certain settings in Australia. There is no mandate.
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Burztur
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.1K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]Vaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read [quote]There is a massive vaccine and drug development effort, so it is almost certain we will have better vaccine options, including ones that are variant-proof. But what the past month has shown us is we cannot live with unmitigated Covid-19. Vaccinations will not be enough. We need a ventilation and vaccine-plus strategy to avoid the disruptive epidemic cycle, to protect health and the economy, and to regain a semblance of the life we all want. https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/opinion/topic/2022/01/15/why-covid-19-will-never-become-endemic/164216520013155 It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/ Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example. Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020. Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year. Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days. Governments have been pushing it too What about this from Dan Andrews. Pretty blunt. "The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today." "If you want to open up" ✅ "Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal. You're missing the point. The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal. Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal. They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal. Surely you can see the narrative has changed. It's quite obvious. That's the only point I am making. the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus. I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle. The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news. True but unfortunately they (politicians) are who we hear from and ultimately who actually make the decisions so it doesn't surprise me most people did think this to be the case. I know I did to a large degree. Not because I didn't know there were health experts saying something else, or policy experts/opposition saying something else but because the actual state leaders whose job it is to make the call sold it this way directly to the public from their vanity pulpit
Yeah I kind of assumed the vaccines would only largely prevent seriously illness. Not infection. Mostly because my partner got it early on and a close mate develops vaccines and explained the next few years pretty clearly to me.
At the end of the day there really is not total solution. It’s nature/science. It will do what it wants without a finish date. As much as that sucks we have unfortunately been unlucky enough to live through a pandemic.
And that is why mass vaccination, mandates and vaccine passports are obsolete. They do not achieve anything significant. AMnAMAMn This is demonstrably false and examples of what mass vaccination has allowed to happen have been given over and over again. If you're talking about restriction lifted then this is all to do with government decisions. Their rules. Mass vaccination mandates for kids under 18, sports industries, healthy people under 30, healthy people in general under 65 has made minimal difference. People have lost jobs for no reason. Taxpayer $$$ have been wasted on unnecessary jabs for people who didnt need it or didnt want it. Vaccination could have been simply focused at high risk industries, vulnerable people, the elderly, immunocompromised. Complete over reaction from government. Interesting figures from NSW health oday. "Of the 36 people who died; 33 people had received at least two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine, and three people were not vaccinated." https://twitter.com/NSWHealth/status/1483228787664101376?t=9AGld0VLJtuaOsSTKWjgPA&s=19"Older age is a significant risk factor for serious illness and death for COVID-19, particularly when combined with significant underlying health conditions." So everything you say about who is vulnerable is correct. Currently in NSW about 95% are fully vaccinated. More than half the people admitted are unvaccinated. There are currently 2700 people taking up hospital beds. That's a shitload of resources and cost to the government not to mention thousands of people who need treatment for other ailments aren't getting any. Without vaccines that number would be 4, 5, 10 times higher. That fact alone is why it's worth vaccinating everyone. I cannot believe people still think we should only be vaccinating some people. Not to mention variants, which could be less or more severe, can emerge because the virus is still circulating. Another reason as to why everyone should be vaxxed. Regarding the vaccine Pfizer ceo says double Vax helps a little, if at all. 3rd dose may help reduce symptoms only. Omicron Vax to be out by March/April. 5% of the NSW population over 16 make up 50% of ICU cases so that is clearly not true. So you don't trust the pharmaceutical companies now? https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/pfizer-boss-says-two-doses-provides-limited-protection-if-any-against-omicron/news-story/9d76126d080e2010f05eb0b4ae5e0c45 Also this from the article regarding mandates. Once again, mandates are obsolete. They pointed to the World Health Organisation’s (WHO) position on vaccine mandates, which states that “if mandatory vaccination is considered necessary to interrupt transmission chains and prevent harm to others, there should be sufficient evidence that the vaccine is efficacious in preventing serious infection and/or transmission”. For Omicron, they noted, “there is as yet no such evidence” and moreover, “the little data we have suggests the opposite”.
“One preprint study found that after 30 days the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines no longer had any statistically significant positive effect against Omicron infection, and after 90 days, their effect went negative – i.e. vaccinated people were more susceptible to Omicron infection,” they wrote.
“Confirming this negative efficacy finding, data from Denmark and the Canadian province of Ontario indicate that vaccinated people have higher rates of Omicron infection than unvaccinated people.” Will you change your position in March when Pfizer releases their Omicron specific vaccine?
My position is no mass vaccination, no vaccine passports no vaccine mandates.
That position won't change.
With people like you in the world it's a real wonder how we managed to eradicate smallpox [/quote]Apologies. I did update my comment. Until the vaccine becomes a sterilising vaccine. And its common knowledge the Covid vaccines are nowhere near sterilising. This is going to be interpreted as causing human sterility...
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Butler99
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]+x[quote]Vaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read [quote]There is a massive vaccine and drug development effort, so it is almost certain we will have better vaccine options, including ones that are variant-proof. But what the past month has shown us is we cannot live with unmitigated Covid-19. Vaccinations will not be enough. We need a ventilation and vaccine-plus strategy to avoid the disruptive epidemic cycle, to protect health and the economy, and to regain a semblance of the life we all want. https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/opinion/topic/2022/01/15/why-covid-19-will-never-become-endemic/164216520013155 It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/
Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example.
Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020.
Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year.
Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days.
Governments have been pushing it too
What about this from Dan Andrews.
Pretty blunt.
"The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today."
"Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal.
You're missing the point.
The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal.
Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal.
They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal.
Surely you can see the narrative has changed.
It's quite obvious.
That's the only point I am making.
the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal
vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus.
I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle.
The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news.
True but unfortunately they (politicians) are who we hear from and ultimately who actually make the decisions so it doesn't surprise me most people did think this to be the case.
I know I did to a large degree.
Not because I didn't know there were health experts saying something else, or policy experts/opposition saying something else but because the actual state leaders whose job it is to make the call sold it this way directly to the public from their vanity pulpit
Yeah I kind of assumed the vaccines would only largely prevent seriously illness. Not infection. Mostly because my partner got it early on and a close mate develops vaccines and explained the next few years pretty clearly to me.
At the end of the day there really is not total solution. It’s nature/science. It will do what it wants without a finish date. As much as that sucks we have unfortunately been unlucky enough to live through a pandemic.
And that is why mass vaccination, mandates and vaccine passports are obsolete.
They do not achieve anything significant.
This is demonstrably false and examples of what mass vaccination has allowed to happen have been given over and over again.
If you're talking about restriction lifted then this is all to do with government decisions.
Their rules.
Mass vaccination mandates for kids under 18, sports industries, healthy people under 30, healthy people in general under 65 has made minimal difference.
People have lost jobs for no reason. Taxpayer $$$ have been wasted on unnecessary jabs for people who didnt need it or didnt want it.
Vaccination could have been simply focused at high risk industries, vulnerable people, the elderly, immunocompromised.
Complete over reaction from government.
Interesting figures from NSW health oday.
"Of the 36 people who died; 33 people had received at least two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine, and three people were not vaccinated."
https://twitter.com/NSWHealth/status/1483228787664101376?t=9AGld0VLJtuaOsSTKWjgPA&s=19
"Older age is a significant risk factor for serious illness and death for COVID-19, particularly when combined with significant underlying health conditions."
So everything you say about who is vulnerable is correct. Currently in NSW about 95% are fully vaccinated. More than half the people admitted are unvaccinated. There are currently 2700 people taking up hospital beds. That's a shitload of resources and cost to the government not to mention thousands of people who need treatment for other ailments aren't getting any.
Without vaccines that number would be 4, 5, 10 times higher.
That fact alone is why it's worth vaccinating everyone.
I cannot believe people still think we should only be vaccinating some people.
Not to mention variants, which could be less or more severe, can emerge because the virus is still circulating. Another reason as to why everyone should be vaxxed.
Regarding the vaccine
Pfizer ceo says double Vax helps a little, if at all.
3rd dose may help reduce symptoms only.
Omicron Vax to be out by March/April.
5% of the NSW population over 16 make up 50% of ICU cases so that is clearly not true.
So you don't trust the pharmaceutical companies now?
https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/pfizer-boss-says-two-doses-provides-limited-protection-if-any-against-omicron/news-story/9d76126d080e2010f05eb0b4ae5e0c45
Also this from the article regarding mandates.
Once again, mandates are obsolete.
They pointed to the World Health Organisation’s (WHO) position on vaccine mandates, which states that “if mandatory vaccination is considered necessary to interrupt transmission chains and prevent harm to others, there should be sufficient evidence that the vaccine is efficacious in preventing serious infection and/or transmission”.
For Omicron, they noted, “there is as yet no such evidence” and moreover, “the little data we have suggests the opposite”.
“One preprint study found that after 30 days the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines no longer had any statistically significant positive effect against Omicron infection, and after 90 days, their effect went negative – i.e. vaccinated people were more susceptible to Omicron infection,” they wrote.
“Confirming this negative efficacy finding, data from Denmark and the Canadian province of Ontario indicate that vaccinated people have higher rates of Omicron infection than unvaccinated people.”
Will you change your position in March when Pfizer releases their Omicron specific vaccine? My position is no mass vaccination, no vaccine passports no vaccine mandates. That position won't change unless the vaccination becomes a sterilising vaccine. I'm all for COVID vaccines if you and your doctor think it is better for your health. That's common sense. The only question come March time is that we've probably all have had a case of omicron by then. So may be too late? [/quote]Can you define "no mass vaccination", "no vaccine passports" and "no vaccine mandates"? Chances are, your doctor will recommend that you and almost everyone take the vaccine - so that's mass vaccination. Vaccine passports are already in effect even before COVID with Medicare, the Immunisation Register and now the Services app. Vaccine mandates are only proposed in certain settings in Australia. There is no mandate. Mass vaccination = push for 100% of the population. Who is over 12 now. But the push for 5-11 year Olds now too. I don't think that is necessary. Vaccine passports. - in parts around the country you need to show your COVID vaccine certificate to access services or venues. Unnecessary and redundant when everyone can get infected and spread. Vaccine mandates. - put in place by government to continue being employed. People sacked because they don't have the COVID vaccine Just wrong. Once again everyone is susceptible to infection and can transmit. And just to clarify the term sterilising. Vaccines that are out there sterilise the infection. Stopping the spread. The covid vaccine does not do this. Even they thats what they were advertised to do in the early days.
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tsf
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Who can forget those giant billboards in the early days ‘take Regatron’s covid vaccine. 100% guaranteed to prevent omicron variant infection’
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Butler99
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+xWho can forget those giant billboards in the early days ‘take Regatron’s covid vaccine. 100% guaranteed to prevent omicron variant infection’ Take the piss as much as you like. But that's what the claim was in the early days. He's a quick link on the early narrative about the vaccine. https://twitter.com/therealmobnews/status/1482315225320017922?t=SIvo84y7UF2NpZPT9QaJcw&s=19
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cesspit
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is this butler guy a johnsmith multi?
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tsf
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I must’ve missed some vague senile comment. The only claim I caught early on was that covid was fake and it was a ‘plandemic’.
Well besides all those advertisements from actual experts saying ‘the vaccine was the end of it and every single variant, let’s go out and party.’
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tsf
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Public health experts, epidemiologists, scientists and vaccine developers have all pretty consistently been saying this shit is here for years and we're going to have to constantly tweak and improve our answers as the disease changes over time. Their message has generally been life is not going back to normal for a long time.
It sucks but it's the reality.
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cesspit
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+xPublic health experts, epidemiologists, scientists and vaccine developers have all pretty consistently been saying this shit is here for years and we're going to have to constantly tweak and improve our answers as the disease changes over time. Their message has generally been life is not going back to normal for a long time. It sucks but it's the reality. a progressive society never stays the same there's no going back we have an opportunity now to use our technological infrastructure to build a better and safer society all the measures already put in place and those still under development will serve us well for inevitable future pandemics, which as the climate changes are occurring with more frequency
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Davide82
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Why is it people "like you" always post American sources?
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cesspit
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+xWhy is it people "like you" always post American sources? Trumpkins are all plumbing the same well
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Butler99
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+xWhy is it people "like you" always post American sources? Where did the vaccines originate? Makes sense that they'd be the first the promote the vaccine. These are their claims. But the message is clear. That's what we are discussing. And my point still stands.
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Muz
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+xSo Djokovic was such a massive danger and threat to the australian public the head of govt had to intervene to deport him immediately yet, that fat bludging manila sex bar addict christensen can publically go against health policy and whip up anti-vaccine hysteria to his simpleton followers, and suddenly it's a free country according the the LNP and we shouldnt listen to him - what? A govt minister? The utter hypocrisy of these pricks. 100%. Came here to say that. Not only him though. Canavan is another flog in the government trying his best to sow doubt.
Member since 2008.
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Butler99
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+x+xSo Djokovic was such a massive danger and threat to the australian public the head of govt had to intervene to deport him immediately yet, that fat bludging manila sex bar addict christensen can publically go against health policy and whip up anti-vaccine hysteria to his simpleton followers, and suddenly it's a free country according the the LNP and we shouldnt listen to him - what? A govt minister? The utter hypocrisy of these pricks. 100%. Came here to say that. Not only him though. Canavan is another flog in the government trying his best to sow doubt. Bit harsh. I'd say a good portion of the country is against mandates and vaccine passports. Just because vaccination rates are at 90-95% does not mean they all agree with the rules. I'm sure we all know someone that was forced into taking the jab. And probably would not have taken if they had a free choice. So having a couple of MP's or senators also feeling this way is not a surprise. Shutdown of the debate is not right. It's not harmful. Debate is helpful and a cornerstone of a free society. Surely some of the crap Greens MPs come up with is more destructive.
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cesspit
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Christensen is on the way out anyway. One less anti-vaxxer loon in parliament by the middle of the year.
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Butler99
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Time to line up for third dose. Otherwise you'll be considered an anti vaxxer. https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/politics/get-your-third-dose-victorian-premier-dan-andrews-reduces-booster-dose-interval-to-three-months/news-story/5e61c00538e25b000295d1fe6d2e4d5cFrom 6 to 5 to 4.... To 3 months now. 😳 Goalposts keep shifting on a lot of things. Probably the only thing they've been consistent on is using the terms safe and effective. But that doesn't mean much anymore. Just the advertising slogan.
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Burztur
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]Vaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read [quote]There is a massive vaccine and drug development effort, so it is almost certain we will have better vaccine options, including ones that are variant-proof. But what the past month has shown us is we cannot live with unmitigated Covid-19. Vaccinations will not be enough. We need a ventilation and vaccine-plus strategy to avoid the disruptive epidemic cycle, to protect health and the economy, and to regain a semblance of the life we all want. https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/opinion/topic/2022/01/15/why-covid-19-will-never-become-endemic/164216520013155 It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/ Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example. Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020. Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year. Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days. Governments have been pushing it too What about this from Dan Andrews. Pretty blunt. "The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today." "If you want to open up" ✅ "Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal. You're missing the point. The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal. Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal. They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal. Surely you can see the narrative has changed. It's quite obvious. That's the only point I am making. the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus. I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle. The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news. True but unfortunately they (politicians) are who we hear from and ultimately who actually make the decisions so it doesn't surprise me most people did think this to be the case. I know I did to a large degree. Not because I didn't know there were health experts saying something else, or policy experts/opposition saying something else but because the actual state leaders whose job it is to make the call sold it this way directly to the public from their vanity pulpit
Yeah I kind of assumed the vaccines would only largely prevent seriously illness. Not infection. Mostly because my partner got it early on and a close mate develops vaccines and explained the next few years pretty clearly to me.
At the end of the day there really is not total solution. It’s nature/science. It will do what it wants without a finish date. As much as that sucks we have unfortunately been unlucky enough to live through a pandemic.
And that is why mass vaccination, mandates and vaccine passports are obsolete. They do not achieve anything significant. AMnAMAMn This is demonstrably false and examples of what mass vaccination has allowed to happen have been given over and over again. If you're talking about restriction lifted then this is all to do with government decisions. Their rules. Mass vaccination mandates for kids under 18, sports industries, healthy people under 30, healthy people in general under 65 has made minimal difference. People have lost jobs for no reason. Taxpayer $$$ have been wasted on unnecessary jabs for people who didnt need it or didnt want it. Vaccination could have been simply focused at high risk industries, vulnerable people, the elderly, immunocompromised. Complete over reaction from government. Interesting figures from NSW health oday. "Of the 36 people who died; 33 people had received at least two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine, and three people were not vaccinated." https://twitter.com/NSWHealth/status/1483228787664101376?t=9AGld0VLJtuaOsSTKWjgPA&s=19"Older age is a significant risk factor for serious illness and death for COVID-19, particularly when combined with significant underlying health conditions." So everything you say about who is vulnerable is correct. Currently in NSW about 95% are fully vaccinated. More than half the people admitted are unvaccinated. There are currently 2700 people taking up hospital beds. That's a shitload of resources and cost to the government not to mention thousands of people who need treatment for other ailments aren't getting any. Without vaccines that number would be 4, 5, 10 times higher. That fact alone is why it's worth vaccinating everyone. I cannot believe people still think we should only be vaccinating some people. Not to mention variants, which could be less or more severe, can emerge because the virus is still circulating. Another reason as to why everyone should be vaxxed. Regarding the vaccine Pfizer ceo says double Vax helps a little, if at all. 3rd dose may help reduce symptoms only. Omicron Vax to be out by March/April. 5% of the NSW population over 16 make up 50% of ICU cases so that is clearly not true. So you don't trust the pharmaceutical companies now? https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/pfizer-boss-says-two-doses-provides-limited-protection-if-any-against-omicron/news-story/9d76126d080e2010f05eb0b4ae5e0c45 Also this from the article regarding mandates. Once again, mandates are obsolete. They pointed to the World Health Organisation’s (WHO) position on vaccine mandates, which states that “if mandatory vaccination is considered necessary to interrupt transmission chains and prevent harm to others, there should be sufficient evidence that the vaccine is efficacious in preventing serious infection and/or transmission”. For Omicron, they noted, “there is as yet no such evidence” and moreover, “the little data we have suggests the opposite”.
“One preprint study found that after 30 days the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines no longer had any statistically significant positive effect against Omicron infection, and after 90 days, their effect went negative – i.e. vaccinated people were more susceptible to Omicron infection,” they wrote.
“Confirming this negative efficacy finding, data from Denmark and the Canadian province of Ontario indicate that vaccinated people have higher rates of Omicron infection than unvaccinated people.” Will you change your position in March when Pfizer releases their Omicron specific vaccine?
My position is no mass vaccination, no vaccine passports no vaccine mandates.
That position won't change unless the vaccination becomes a sterilising vaccine.
I'm all for COVID vaccines if you and your doctor think it is better for your health.
That's common sense.
The only question come March time is that we've probably all have had a case of omicron by then. So may be too late? Can you define "no mass vaccination", "no vaccine passports" and "no vaccine mandates"? Chances are, your doctor will recommend that you and almost everyone take the vaccine - so that's mass vaccination. Vaccine passports are already in effect even before COVID with Medicare, the Immunisation Register and now the Services app. Vaccine mandates are only proposed in certain settings in Australia. There is no mandate. [/quote]Mass vaccination = push for 100% of the population. Who is over 12 now. But the push for 5-11 year Olds now too. I don't think that is necessary. Vaccine passports. - in parts around the country you need to show your COVID vaccine certificate to access services or venues. Unnecessary and redundant when everyone can get infected and spread. Vaccine mandates. - put in place by government to continue being employed. People sacked because they don't have the COVID vaccine Just wrong. Once again everyone is susceptible to infection and can transmit. And just to clarify the term sterilising. Vaccines that are out there sterilise the infection. Stopping the spread. The covid vaccine does not do this. Even they thats what they were advertised to do in the early days. I don't think anyone is pushing for 100% vaccination... As for vaccine passports, that's being unwound. As for mandates, they only apply in high risk jobs. Tell me where there is a mandate?
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Butler99
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]Vaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read [quote]There is a massive vaccine and drug development effort, so it is almost certain we will have better vaccine options, including ones that are variant-proof. But what the past month has shown us is we cannot live with unmitigated Covid-19. Vaccinations will not be enough. We need a ventilation and vaccine-plus strategy to avoid the disruptive epidemic cycle, to protect health and the economy, and to regain a semblance of the life we all want. https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/opinion/topic/2022/01/15/why-covid-19-will-never-become-endemic/164216520013155 It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/ Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example. Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020. Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year. Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days. Governments have been pushing it too What about this from Dan Andrews. Pretty blunt. "The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today." "If you want to open up" ✅ "Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal. You're missing the point. The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal. Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal. They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal. Surely you can see the narrative has changed. It's quite obvious. That's the only point I am making. the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus. I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle. The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news. True but unfortunately they (politicians) are who we hear from and ultimately who actually make the decisions so it doesn't surprise me most people did think this to be the case. I know I did to a large degree. Not because I didn't know there were health experts saying something else, or policy experts/opposition saying something else but because the actual state leaders whose job it is to make the call sold it this way directly to the public from their vanity pulpit
Yeah I kind of assumed the vaccines would only largely prevent seriously illness. Not infection. Mostly because my partner got it early on and a close mate develops vaccines and explained the next few years pretty clearly to me.
At the end of the day there really is not total solution. It’s nature/science. It will do what it wants without a finish date. As much as that sucks we have unfortunately been unlucky enough to live through a pandemic.
And that is why mass vaccination, mandates and vaccine passports are obsolete. They do not achieve anything significant. AMnAMAMn This is demonstrably false and examples of what mass vaccination has allowed to happen have been given over and over again. If you're talking about restriction lifted then this is all to do with government decisions. Their rules. Mass vaccination mandates for kids under 18, sports industries, healthy people under 30, healthy people in general under 65 has made minimal difference. People have lost jobs for no reason. Taxpayer $$$ have been wasted on unnecessary jabs for people who didnt need it or didnt want it. Vaccination could have been simply focused at high risk industries, vulnerable people, the elderly, immunocompromised. Complete over reaction from government. Interesting figures from NSW health oday. "Of the 36 people who died; 33 people had received at least two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine, and three people were not vaccinated." https://twitter.com/NSWHealth/status/1483228787664101376?t=9AGld0VLJtuaOsSTKWjgPA&s=19"Older age is a significant risk factor for serious illness and death for COVID-19, particularly when combined with significant underlying health conditions." So everything you say about who is vulnerable is correct. Currently in NSW about 95% are fully vaccinated. More than half the people admitted are unvaccinated. There are currently 2700 people taking up hospital beds. That's a shitload of resources and cost to the government not to mention thousands of people who need treatment for other ailments aren't getting any. Without vaccines that number would be 4, 5, 10 times higher. That fact alone is why it's worth vaccinating everyone. I cannot believe people still think we should only be vaccinating some people. Not to mention variants, which could be less or more severe, can emerge because the virus is still circulating. Another reason as to why everyone should be vaxxed. Regarding the vaccine Pfizer ceo says double Vax helps a little, if at all. 3rd dose may help reduce symptoms only. Omicron Vax to be out by March/April. 5% of the NSW population over 16 make up 50% of ICU cases so that is clearly not true. So you don't trust the pharmaceutical companies now? https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/pfizer-boss-says-two-doses-provides-limited-protection-if-any-against-omicron/news-story/9d76126d080e2010f05eb0b4ae5e0c45 Also this from the article regarding mandates. Once again, mandates are obsolete. They pointed to the World Health Organisation’s (WHO) position on vaccine mandates, which states that “if mandatory vaccination is considered necessary to interrupt transmission chains and prevent harm to others, there should be sufficient evidence that the vaccine is efficacious in preventing serious infection and/or transmission”. For Omicron, they noted, “there is as yet no such evidence” and moreover, “the little data we have suggests the opposite”.
“One preprint study found that after 30 days the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines no longer had any statistically significant positive effect against Omicron infection, and after 90 days, their effect went negative – i.e. vaccinated people were more susceptible to Omicron infection,” they wrote.
“Confirming this negative efficacy finding, data from Denmark and the Canadian province of Ontario indicate that vaccinated people have higher rates of Omicron infection than unvaccinated people.” Will you change your position in March when Pfizer releases their Omicron specific vaccine? My position is no mass vaccination, no vaccine passports no vaccine mandates. That position won't change unless the vaccination becomes a sterilising vaccine. I'm all for COVID vaccines if you and your doctor think it is better for your health. That's common sense. The only question come March time is that we've probably all have had a case of omicron by then. So may be too late?
Can you define "no mass vaccination", "no vaccine passports" and "no vaccine mandates"?
Chances are, your doctor will recommend that you and almost everyone take the vaccine - so that's mass vaccination. Vaccine passports are already in effect even before COVID with Medicare, the Immunisation Register and now the Services app. Vaccine mandates are only proposed in certain settings in Australia. There is no mandate. Mass vaccination = push for 100% of the population. Who is over 12 now. But the push for 5-11 year Olds now too. I don't think that is necessary. Vaccine passports. - in parts around the country you need to show your COVID vaccine certificate to access services or venues. Unnecessary and redundant when everyone can get infected and spread. Vaccine mandates. - put in place by government to continue being employed. People sacked because they don't have the COVID vaccine Just wrong. Once again everyone is susceptible to infection and can transmit. And just to clarify the term sterilising. Vaccines that are out there sterilise the infection. Stopping the spread. The covid vaccine does not do this. Even they thats what they were advertised to do in the early days. [/quote]I don't think anyone is pushing for 100% vaccination... As for vaccine passports, that's being unwound. As for mandates, they only apply in high risk jobs. Tell me where there is a mandate? Haha. They're still telling the unvaxxed to get it. The rhetoric has not let up at all. Perhaps only in NSW? National cabinet was after only about 80% Vaxxed then we can move on. Country is now at 90-95% but governments still aren't happy and demonise the unvaxxed? Not right. Unvaxxed are banned from entering venues in Victoria,Qld and WA. McGowan said unvaxed will have it difficult for "years to come". Disgusting. NT with some of the harshest laws against unvaxxed. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-06/nt-covid-lockout-vaccine-pass-rules-explained/100742190I think SA and NSW have open to all? Not sure about Tassie Can you tell me when it will be unwound? Victoria has been running a segregated society for over 2 months now. https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/victorian-government-s-lengthy-lockout-of-unvaccinated-is-an-overreach-20211123-p59bdj.html"Premier Daniel Andrews has made it clear that the unvaccinated over-12s in Victoria – currently 425,817 of them – don’t fit into social and cultural life for the duration of 2022. They cannot get a haircut, go to the movies, buy clothes at a department store, nor attend a gym. They cannot join their fully vaccinated partner or daughter at a restaurant. Their presence at a wedding or funeral will mean numbers capped at 50." You think this is acceptable? Mandates for teachers? Mining industries. Sports. Government venues. Construction. Some hospitality also. Not high risk industries at all. WA 75% of workforce mandated. All high risk?? No chance. https://cciwa.com/business-pulse/mandatory-vaccination-announced-for-75-of-wa-workforce/Sorry. But we are pushing for close to 100% vaccinated. 90-95% not enough? Push for boosters incoming. Vaccine mandates have been put in place unnecessarily in most industries. Vaccine passports are required for travel and to be part of society in most states. This is wrong.
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Butler99
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+xSo Djokovic was such a massive danger and threat to the australian public the head of govt had to intervene to deport him immediately yet, that fat bludging manila sex bar addict christensen can publically go against health policy and whip up anti-vaccine hysteria to his simpleton followers, and suddenly it's a free country according the the LNP and we shouldnt listen to him - what? A govt minister? The utter hypocrisy of these pricks. So are you referring to his comment about not vaccinating kids?? If so, then that is the WHO's view too. "Who should not take the vaccine?
People with a history of severe allergic reaction to any component of the vaccine should not take it.
There are currently no efficacy or safety data for children below the age of 12 years. Until such data are available, individuals below 12 years of age should not be routinely vaccinated." Update from Jan 5
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tsf
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Saw some graffiti:
Christensen - Jabbing kids for Covid = Bad Jabbing kids in Phillipines = good.
Firm.....but fair.
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cesspit
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that's what science does, it changes as we do more research
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Butler99
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Some common sense returning to the western world. Looks like BJ was pressured to do the right thing due to the backlash for the COVID parties the government had. As always Australia will be a little late to the party. We're still paralysed by fear here, and generally expect government to be responsible for individuals. People don't like taking responsibility for themselves much these days. Always like to blame others. https://www.heraldsun.com.au/coronavirus/omicron-detected-in-beijing-as-china-battles-covid-clusters/news-story/6a9815c38a5fe78be6a194d989799f92
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Butler99
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More countries out there reversing stupid mandates. Strangely, former communist countries seem to be implementing less stringent restrictions on their populations compared to western freedom loving nations. NZ, Australia and Canada seemingly the worst. https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/czech-government-dismisses-mandate-vaccination-plan-82352700
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Burztur
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]Vaccination does remain a key pillar to getting out of this but it isn't going to be the only thing (and never was). We can go back pages to when we were discussing the vaccination targets to see it was never going to mean everything back to 2019. The high vaccination rate has prevented omicron induced large scale lockdowns. This article is really worth a read [quote]There is a massive vaccine and drug development effort, so it is almost certain we will have better vaccine options, including ones that are variant-proof. But what the past month has shown us is we cannot live with unmitigated Covid-19. Vaccinations will not be enough. We need a ventilation and vaccine-plus strategy to avoid the disruptive epidemic cycle, to protect health and the economy, and to regain a semblance of the life we all want. https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/opinion/topic/2022/01/15/why-covid-19-will-never-become-endemic/164216520013155 It may not be the only thing now... But it definitely was billed as our way out previously. Most governments spruiked it. Ads were everywhere. Perhaps the minor details were in the fine print, but the impression was "this is our shot to get back to normal" 6 months ago https://fb.watch/azEXgZlla4/ Yep ads run by the private corporation Channel 9 are an excellent example. Regardless, vaccination wasn't a waste of time it's allowed the borders to open and for us to avoid lockdowns despite huge case numbers. Things are far more "normal" than they've been anytime since early 2020. Mass messaging has to be simple, if people didn't bother to understand the finer details that's on them. This shouldn't have been a shock to anyone, especially anyone engaged in this thread over the past year. Ok. But media has been the governmenfs propaganda arm these days. Governments have been pushing it too What about this from Dan Andrews. Pretty blunt. "The roadmap makes clear that the vaccine is our only way through this.
So, if you want to open up and get back to normal sooner, the solution is clear:
Get the vaccine. Book it today." "If you want to open up" ✅ "Get back to normal sooner" ✅
If we weren't vaccinated we would be much further away from back to normal. You're missing the point. The message was vaccination is our only way back to normal. Now with 90-95% vaccination we are still nowhere near normal. They didn't say vaccination along with masks, restrictions, isolation, quarantine, check ins, vaccine passports is our way back to normal. Surely you can see the narrative has changed. It's quite obvious. That's the only point I am making. the problem is the anti-vaxers haven't allowed us to go back to complete normal vaccines were sold as the solution to returning to normal, but it is now apparent that this is not the case, since there are restrictions still in place to manage the ever changing virus. I don't think they were though. Even the head of the AMA said they are only a piece of the puzzle. The only ppl who have tried to sell that as the answer are politicians trying to get on the news. True but unfortunately they (politicians) are who we hear from and ultimately who actually make the decisions so it doesn't surprise me most people did think this to be the case. I know I did to a large degree. Not because I didn't know there were health experts saying something else, or policy experts/opposition saying something else but because the actual state leaders whose job it is to make the call sold it this way directly to the public from their vanity pulpit
Yeah I kind of assumed the vaccines would only largely prevent seriously illness. Not infection. Mostly because my partner got it early on and a close mate develops vaccines and explained the next few years pretty clearly to me.
At the end of the day there really is not total solution. It’s nature/science. It will do what it wants without a finish date. As much as that sucks we have unfortunately been unlucky enough to live through a pandemic.
And that is why mass vaccination, mandates and vaccine passports are obsolete. They do not achieve anything significant. AMnAMAMn This is demonstrably false and examples of what mass vaccination has allowed to happen have been given over and over again. If you're talking about restriction lifted then this is all to do with government decisions. Their rules. Mass vaccination mandates for kids under 18, sports industries, healthy people under 30, healthy people in general under 65 has made minimal difference. People have lost jobs for no reason. Taxpayer $$$ have been wasted on unnecessary jabs for people who didnt need it or didnt want it. Vaccination could have been simply focused at high risk industries, vulnerable people, the elderly, immunocompromised. Complete over reaction from government. Interesting figures from NSW health oday. "Of the 36 people who died; 33 people had received at least two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine, and three people were not vaccinated." https://twitter.com/NSWHealth/status/1483228787664101376?t=9AGld0VLJtuaOsSTKWjgPA&s=19"Older age is a significant risk factor for serious illness and death for COVID-19, particularly when combined with significant underlying health conditions." So everything you say about who is vulnerable is correct. Currently in NSW about 95% are fully vaccinated. More than half the people admitted are unvaccinated. There are currently 2700 people taking up hospital beds. That's a shitload of resources and cost to the government not to mention thousands of people who need treatment for other ailments aren't getting any. Without vaccines that number would be 4, 5, 10 times higher. That fact alone is why it's worth vaccinating everyone. I cannot believe people still think we should only be vaccinating some people. Not to mention variants, which could be less or more severe, can emerge because the virus is still circulating. Another reason as to why everyone should be vaxxed. Regarding the vaccine Pfizer ceo says double Vax helps a little, if at all. 3rd dose may help reduce symptoms only. Omicron Vax to be out by March/April. 5% of the NSW population over 16 make up 50% of ICU cases so that is clearly not true. So you don't trust the pharmaceutical companies now? https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/pfizer-boss-says-two-doses-provides-limited-protection-if-any-against-omicron/news-story/9d76126d080e2010f05eb0b4ae5e0c45 Also this from the article regarding mandates. Once again, mandates are obsolete. They pointed to the World Health Organisation’s (WHO) position on vaccine mandates, which states that “if mandatory vaccination is considered necessary to interrupt transmission chains and prevent harm to others, there should be sufficient evidence that the vaccine is efficacious in preventing serious infection and/or transmission”. For Omicron, they noted, “there is as yet no such evidence” and moreover, “the little data we have suggests the opposite”.
“One preprint study found that after 30 days the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines no longer had any statistically significant positive effect against Omicron infection, and after 90 days, their effect went negative – i.e. vaccinated people were more susceptible to Omicron infection,” they wrote.
“Confirming this negative efficacy finding, data from Denmark and the Canadian province of Ontario indicate that vaccinated people have higher rates of Omicron infection than unvaccinated people.” Will you change your position in March when Pfizer releases their Omicron specific vaccine? [/quote]My position is no mass vaccination, no vaccine passports no vaccine mandates. That position won't change unless the vaccination becomes a sterilising vaccine. I'm all for COVID vaccines if you and your doctor think it is better for your health. That's common sense. The only question come March time is that we've probably all have had a case of omicron by then. So may be too late? Can you define "no mass vaccination", "no vaccine passports" and "no vaccine mandates"? Chances are, your doctor will recommend that you and almost everyone take the vaccine - so that's mass vaccination. Vaccine passports are already in effect even before COVID with Medicare, the Immunisation Register and now the Services app. Vaccine mandates are only proposed in certain settings in Australia. There is no mandate.
Mass vaccination = push for 100% of the population. Who is over 12 now. But the push for 5-11 year Olds now too.
I don't think that is necessary.
Vaccine passports. - in parts around the country you need to show your COVID vaccine certificate to access services or venues. Unnecessary and redundant when everyone can get infected and spread.
Vaccine mandates. - put in place by government to continue being employed. People sacked because they don't have the COVID vaccine Just wrong. Once again everyone is susceptible to infection and can transmit.
And just to clarify the term sterilising.
Vaccines that are out there sterilise the infection. Stopping the spread.
The covid vaccine does not do this.
Even they thats what they were advertised to do in the early days. I don't think anyone is pushing for 100% vaccination... As for vaccine passports, that's being unwound. As for mandates, they only apply in high risk jobs. Tell me where there is a mandate? [/quote]Haha. They're still telling the unvaxxed to get it. The rhetoric has not let up at all. Perhaps only in NSW? National cabinet was after only about 80% Vaxxed then we can move on. Country is now at 90-95% but governments still aren't happy and demonise the unvaxxed? Not right. Unvaxxed are banned from entering venues in Victoria,Qld and WA. McGowan said unvaxed will have it difficult for "years to come". Disgusting. NT with some of the harshest laws against unvaxxed. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-06/nt-covid-lockout-vaccine-pass-rules-explained/100742190I think SA and NSW have open to all? Not sure about Tassie Can you tell me when it will be unwound? Victoria has been running a segregated society for over 2 months now. https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/victorian-government-s-lengthy-lockout-of-unvaccinated-is-an-overreach-20211123-p59bdj.html"Premier Daniel Andrews has made it clear that the unvaccinated over-12s in Victoria – currently 425,817 of them – don’t fit into social and cultural life for the duration of 2022. They cannot get a haircut, go to the movies, buy clothes at a department store, nor attend a gym. They cannot join their fully vaccinated partner or daughter at a restaurant. Their presence at a wedding or funeral will mean numbers capped at 50." You think this is acceptable? Mandates for teachers? Mining industries. Sports. Government venues. Construction. Some hospitality also. Not high risk industries at all. WA 75% of workforce mandated. All high risk?? No chance. https://cciwa.com/business-pulse/mandatory-vaccination-announced-for-75-of-wa-workforce/Sorry. But we are pushing for close to 100% vaccinated. 90-95% not enough? Push for boosters incoming. Vaccine mandates have been put in place unnecessarily in most industries. Vaccine passports are required for travel and to be part of society in most states. This is wrong. Yeah, ~95% has been phenomenal. You can never reach 100% because there is a decent % of people who won't be able to get vaccinated because of their health conditions. So I don't think people are asking for 100%. They are asking for boosters though.
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Muz
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