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AJF
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.7K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt would be good if we could go into social contracts. Considering that unvaccinated people are disproportionally taking up all the medical resources at the moment and depriving many others of medical care, besides making them get vaccinated maybe they could forgo running to the same doctors that told them to get vaccinated in the first place once they ultimately get sick.
Or maybe they could agree to seek the help of the medical experts like Craig Kelly or Clive Palmer instead of clogging our hospitals.
As long as people pay taxes, medicare levies and private health insurance then everyone is doing their bit. Besides the selfishness of this statement and the obvious flaws in it, like the burden these unvaccinated people are placing on resources and diverting attention, do you know the costs it takes to care for all these people in hospital. It can range into the hundreds of thousands for each patient. So as a community we will have to pay hundreds of millions more....but hey they pay their taxes, or does it get deducted from their centrelink first? Maybe we should all call an ambulance if we have a headache, waste their time...I mean like who cares, I pay my taxes so I own them. Where does one start... Smokers? Drinkers? Kids experimenting with "recreational drugs". Thrill seekers doing extreme sports? People engaging in contact sports? The Obese? Diabetics? Fuck them all. No pay no treatment. Where does one start - Smoking is taxed at close to 2 billion a year to put back into the system - you want to throw that into the pool? It is also illegal anywhere inside through the entire country, and most places outdoors too. It's against the law for minors, one of the most heavily regulated things to help the hospital system. You want the same restrictions on the unvaccinated? For the rest see previous posts that have addressed these. Weird you said thrill seekers as well though. These must be cut and paste from something. Of the $2B raised from taxing smokers, how much goes to covering the costs? Smoking costs Australia close to $137 billion That is up from $31.5 billion in 2004–05. Intangible costs of smoking – including lost quality of life from living with a serious illness – are estimated to be almost $118 billion per year.
The report, from the National Drug Research Institute (NDRI) at Curtin University, provides the first update on smoking costs in Australia in 15 years, while detailing that tangible and intangible costs associated with smoking now sit at $136.9 billion annually, up from an estimated $31.5 billion in 2004–05.
Current tangible costs of smoking include:
- $5 billion in lost productivity and worker absences
- $2 billion for family members caring for someone with a smoking-related disease
- $6.8 billion in healthcare costs, including the cost of 1.7 million hospital admissions to treat smoking-related conditions.
Intangible costs, on the other hand, include years of life lost from premature deaths or lost quality of life from living with a serious illness, and were estimated at almost $118 billion per year. https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/smoking-costs-australia-close-to-137-billion Pretty shit example. The only reason smoking isn't completely illegal is it would probably cost more to enforce it's prohibition than the current healthcare burden. Despite this countries are looking to phase it out, starting with New Zealand banning people14 and under from ever being able to purchase tobacco products. You can bet your bottom dollar we'll follow suit sooner or later. Whether illegal or not is completely irrelevant. Its not illegal to not get vaccinated either. Why should the government spend its health dollars on a smoker? Why should employers pay a smoker for days off work for smoking-related illness? Or the government pay pensions prematurely for those who move out of the workforce prematurely due to smoking-related illness? Ok another example: Sports injuries. Look up the costs of that. Oh and one in 10 football-related injuries are life-threatening.... From this I getting that the unvaccinated are comparable to smokers - since you guys are doing the comparing.
And you advocate for a socialist style of medical care. some of you guys need to reacquaint yourselves with what Medicare is: The Australian health system Australia’s health system is one of the best in the world, providing safe and affordable health care for all Australians. It is jointly run by all levels of Australian government – federal, state and territory, and local.
Medicare is available to Australian and New Zealand citizens, permanent residents in Australia, and people from countries with reciprocal agreements. Medicare covers all of the cost of public hospital services. It also covers some or all of the costs of other health services. https://www.health.gov.au/about-us/the-australian-health-system
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
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+x+x+x+x+xlucky it's illegal everywhere! what is? smoking? i'll tell my local safeway... You can smoke in your local Safeway? You can enter it without wearing a mask? +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt would be good if we could go into social contracts. Considering that unvaccinated people are disproportionally taking up all the medical resources at the moment and depriving many others of medical care, besides making them get vaccinated maybe they could forgo running to the same doctors that told them to get vaccinated in the first place once they ultimately get sick.
Or maybe they could agree to seek the help of the medical experts like Craig Kelly or Clive Palmer instead of clogging our hospitals.
As long as people pay taxes, medicare levies and private health insurance then everyone is doing their bit. Besides the selfishness of this statement and the obvious flaws in it, like the burden these unvaccinated people are placing on resources and diverting attention, do you know the costs it takes to care for all these people in hospital. It can range into the hundreds of thousands for each patient. So as a community we will have to pay hundreds of millions more....but hey they pay their taxes, or does it get deducted from their centrelink first? Maybe we should all call an ambulance if we have a headache, waste their time...I mean like who cares, I pay my taxes so I own them. Where does one start... Smokers? Drinkers? Kids experimenting with "recreational drugs". Thrill seekers doing extreme sports? People engaging in contact sports? The Obese? Diabetics? Fuck them all. No pay no treatment. Where does one start - Smoking is taxed at close to 2 billion a year to put back into the system - you want to throw that into the pool? It is also illegal anywhere inside through the entire country, and most places outdoors too. It's against the law for minors, one of the most heavily regulated things to help the hospital system. You want the same restrictions on the unvaccinated? For the rest see previous posts that have addressed these. Weird you said thrill seekers as well though. These must be cut and paste from something. Of the $2B raised from taxing smokers, how much goes to covering the costs? Smoking costs Australia close to $137 billion That is up from $31.5 billion in 2004–05. Intangible costs of smoking – including lost quality of life from living with a serious illness – are estimated to be almost $118 billion per year.
The report, from the National Drug Research Institute (NDRI) at Curtin University, provides the first update on smoking costs in Australia in 15 years, while detailing that tangible and intangible costs associated with smoking now sit at $136.9 billion annually, up from an estimated $31.5 billion in 2004–05.
Current tangible costs of smoking include:
- $5 billion in lost productivity and worker absences
- $2 billion for family members caring for someone with a smoking-related disease
- $6.8 billion in healthcare costs, including the cost of 1.7 million hospital admissions to treat smoking-related conditions.
Intangible costs, on the other hand, include years of life lost from premature deaths or lost quality of life from living with a serious illness, and were estimated at almost $118 billion per year. https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/smoking-costs-australia-close-to-137-billion Pretty shit example. The only reason smoking isn't completely illegal is it would probably cost more to enforce it's prohibition than the current healthcare burden. Despite this countries are looking to phase it out, starting with New Zealand banning people14 and under from ever being able to purchase tobacco products. You can bet your bottom dollar we'll follow suit sooner or later. Whether illegal or not is completely irrelevant. Its not illegal to not get vaccinated either. Why should the government spend its health dollars on a smoker? Why should employers pay a smoker for days off work for smoking-related illness? Or the government pay pensions prematurely for those who move out of the workforce prematurely due to smoking-related illness? Ok another example: Sports injuries. Look up the costs of that. Oh and one in 10 football-related injuries are life-threatening.... From this I getting that the unvaccinated are comparable to smokers - since you guys are doing the comparing.
And you advocate for a socialist style of medical care. From this I take it you are an advocate for user-pays style of medical care?
If it came down to it I’m with you. I too support the socialist system you are passionate about.
Having said that I can’t see why the unvaxxed wouldn’t agree to it though. They’d have nothing to lose if they’re right.
Just to be clear Australia doesn't actually have a socialist health system. What Australia has is universal health care-where everyone has access to health care but people can choose to be treated in government clinics or private ones. There are no private clinics in socialist systems. What you're advocating for is for some people to not be treated in the government system because their choices don't align with your politics. Which contradicts your political belief that health care should be accessible by anyone. Not unexpected- hypocrisy is a corner-stone of the modern day Leftist.
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tsf
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 14K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+xlucky it's illegal everywhere! what is? smoking? i'll tell my local safeway... You can smoke in your local Safeway? You can enter it without wearing a mask? +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt would be good if we could go into social contracts. Considering that unvaccinated people are disproportionally taking up all the medical resources at the moment and depriving many others of medical care, besides making them get vaccinated maybe they could forgo running to the same doctors that told them to get vaccinated in the first place once they ultimately get sick.
Or maybe they could agree to seek the help of the medical experts like Craig Kelly or Clive Palmer instead of clogging our hospitals.
As long as people pay taxes, medicare levies and private health insurance then everyone is doing their bit. Besides the selfishness of this statement and the obvious flaws in it, like the burden these unvaccinated people are placing on resources and diverting attention, do you know the costs it takes to care for all these people in hospital. It can range into the hundreds of thousands for each patient. So as a community we will have to pay hundreds of millions more....but hey they pay their taxes, or does it get deducted from their centrelink first? Maybe we should all call an ambulance if we have a headache, waste their time...I mean like who cares, I pay my taxes so I own them. Where does one start... Smokers? Drinkers? Kids experimenting with "recreational drugs". Thrill seekers doing extreme sports? People engaging in contact sports? The Obese? Diabetics? Fuck them all. No pay no treatment. Where does one start - Smoking is taxed at close to 2 billion a year to put back into the system - you want to throw that into the pool? It is also illegal anywhere inside through the entire country, and most places outdoors too. It's against the law for minors, one of the most heavily regulated things to help the hospital system. You want the same restrictions on the unvaccinated? For the rest see previous posts that have addressed these. Weird you said thrill seekers as well though. These must be cut and paste from something. Of the $2B raised from taxing smokers, how much goes to covering the costs? Smoking costs Australia close to $137 billion That is up from $31.5 billion in 2004–05. Intangible costs of smoking – including lost quality of life from living with a serious illness – are estimated to be almost $118 billion per year.
The report, from the National Drug Research Institute (NDRI) at Curtin University, provides the first update on smoking costs in Australia in 15 years, while detailing that tangible and intangible costs associated with smoking now sit at $136.9 billion annually, up from an estimated $31.5 billion in 2004–05.
Current tangible costs of smoking include:
- $5 billion in lost productivity and worker absences
- $2 billion for family members caring for someone with a smoking-related disease
- $6.8 billion in healthcare costs, including the cost of 1.7 million hospital admissions to treat smoking-related conditions.
Intangible costs, on the other hand, include years of life lost from premature deaths or lost quality of life from living with a serious illness, and were estimated at almost $118 billion per year. https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/smoking-costs-australia-close-to-137-billion Pretty shit example. The only reason smoking isn't completely illegal is it would probably cost more to enforce it's prohibition than the current healthcare burden. Despite this countries are looking to phase it out, starting with New Zealand banning people14 and under from ever being able to purchase tobacco products. You can bet your bottom dollar we'll follow suit sooner or later. Whether illegal or not is completely irrelevant. Its not illegal to not get vaccinated either. Why should the government spend its health dollars on a smoker? Why should employers pay a smoker for days off work for smoking-related illness? Or the government pay pensions prematurely for those who move out of the workforce prematurely due to smoking-related illness? Ok another example: Sports injuries. Look up the costs of that. Oh and one in 10 football-related injuries are life-threatening.... From this I getting that the unvaccinated are comparable to smokers - since you guys are doing the comparing.
And you advocate for a socialist style of medical care. From this I take it you are an advocate for user-pays style of medical care?
If it came down to it I’m with you. I too support the socialist system you are passionate about.
Having said that I can’t see why the unvaxxed wouldn’t agree to it though. They’d have nothing to lose if they’re right.
Just to be clear Australia doesn't actually have a socialist health system. What Australia has is universal health care-where everyone has access to health care but people can choose to be treated in government clinics or private ones. There are no private clinics in socialist systems. What you're advocating for is for some people to not be treated in the government system because their choices don't align with your politics. Which contradicts your political belief that health care should be accessible by anyone. Not unexpected- hypocrisy is a corner-stone of the modern day Leftist. I’m not advocating for anything comrade. Just discussion points.
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AJF
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.7K,
Visits: 2
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt would be good if we could go into social contracts. Considering that unvaccinated people are disproportionally taking up all the medical resources at the moment and depriving many others of medical care, besides making them get vaccinated maybe they could forgo running to the same doctors that told them to get vaccinated in the first place once they ultimately get sick.
Or maybe they could agree to seek the help of the medical experts like Craig Kelly or Clive Palmer instead of clogging our hospitals.
As long as people pay taxes, medicare levies and private health insurance then everyone is doing their bit. Besides the selfishness of this statement and the obvious flaws in it, like the burden these unvaccinated people are placing on resources and diverting attention, do you know the costs it takes to care for all these people in hospital. It can range into the hundreds of thousands for each patient. So as a community we will have to pay hundreds of millions more....but hey they pay their taxes, or does it get deducted from their centrelink first? Maybe we should all call an ambulance if we have a headache, waste their time...I mean like who cares, I pay my taxes so I own them. Where does one start... Smokers? Drinkers? Kids experimenting with "recreational drugs". Thrill seekers doing extreme sports? People engaging in contact sports? The Obese? Diabetics? Fuck them all. No pay no treatment. Where does one start - Smoking is taxed at close to 2 billion a year to put back into the system - you want to throw that into the pool? It is also illegal anywhere inside through the entire country, and most places outdoors too. It's against the law for minors, one of the most heavily regulated things to help the hospital system. You want the same restrictions on the unvaccinated? For the rest see previous posts that have addressed these. Weird you said thrill seekers as well though. These must be cut and paste from something. Of the $2B raised from taxing smokers, how much goes to covering the costs? Smoking costs Australia close to $137 billion That is up from $31.5 billion in 2004–05. Intangible costs of smoking – including lost quality of life from living with a serious illness – are estimated to be almost $118 billion per year.
The report, from the National Drug Research Institute (NDRI) at Curtin University, provides the first update on smoking costs in Australia in 15 years, while detailing that tangible and intangible costs associated with smoking now sit at $136.9 billion annually, up from an estimated $31.5 billion in 2004–05.
Current tangible costs of smoking include:
- $5 billion in lost productivity and worker absences
- $2 billion for family members caring for someone with a smoking-related disease
- $6.8 billion in healthcare costs, including the cost of 1.7 million hospital admissions to treat smoking-related conditions.
Intangible costs, on the other hand, include years of life lost from premature deaths or lost quality of life from living with a serious illness, and were estimated at almost $118 billion per year. https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/smoking-costs-australia-close-to-137-billion Pretty shit example. The only reason smoking isn't completely illegal is it would probably cost more to enforce it's prohibition than the current healthcare burden. Despite this countries are looking to phase it out, starting with New Zealand banning people14 and under from ever being able to purchase tobacco products. You can bet your bottom dollar we'll follow suit sooner or later. Also just on 'intangible costs' that boof that total up by a $100 billion. If there's ever a dodgy calculation it's when they quote 'intangible costs'. Bit like to modelling used to justify the Covid lockdowns.. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7447267/
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Butler99
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1K,
Visits: 0
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Is it just me or are some posts being removed?
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt would be good if we could go into social contracts. Considering that unvaccinated people are disproportionally taking up all the medical resources at the moment and depriving many others of medical care, besides making them get vaccinated maybe they could forgo running to the same doctors that told them to get vaccinated in the first place once they ultimately get sick.
Or maybe they could agree to seek the help of the medical experts like Craig Kelly or Clive Palmer instead of clogging our hospitals.
As long as people pay taxes, medicare levies and private health insurance then everyone is doing their bit. Besides the selfishness of this statement and the obvious flaws in it, like the burden these unvaccinated people are placing on resources and diverting attention, do you know the costs it takes to care for all these people in hospital. It can range into the hundreds of thousands for each patient. So as a community we will have to pay hundreds of millions more....but hey they pay their taxes, or does it get deducted from their centrelink first? Maybe we should all call an ambulance if we have a headache, waste their time...I mean like who cares, I pay my taxes so I own them. Where does one start... Smokers? Drinkers? Kids experimenting with "recreational drugs". Thrill seekers doing extreme sports? People engaging in contact sports? The Obese? Diabetics? Fuck them all. No pay no treatment. Where does one start - Smoking is taxed at close to 2 billion a year to put back into the system - you want to throw that into the pool? It is also illegal anywhere inside through the entire country, and most places outdoors too. It's against the law for minors, one of the most heavily regulated things to help the hospital system. You want the same restrictions on the unvaccinated? For the rest see previous posts that have addressed these. Weird you said thrill seekers as well though. These must be cut and paste from something. Of the $2B raised from taxing smokers, how much goes to covering the costs? Smoking costs Australia close to $137 billion That is up from $31.5 billion in 2004–05. Intangible costs of smoking – including lost quality of life from living with a serious illness – are estimated to be almost $118 billion per year.
The report, from the National Drug Research Institute (NDRI) at Curtin University, provides the first update on smoking costs in Australia in 15 years, while detailing that tangible and intangible costs associated with smoking now sit at $136.9 billion annually, up from an estimated $31.5 billion in 2004–05.
Current tangible costs of smoking include:
- $5 billion in lost productivity and worker absences
- $2 billion for family members caring for someone with a smoking-related disease
- $6.8 billion in healthcare costs, including the cost of 1.7 million hospital admissions to treat smoking-related conditions.
Intangible costs, on the other hand, include years of life lost from premature deaths or lost quality of life from living with a serious illness, and were estimated at almost $118 billion per year. https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/smoking-costs-australia-close-to-137-billion Pretty shit example. The only reason smoking isn't completely illegal is it would probably cost more to enforce it's prohibition than the current healthcare burden. Despite this countries are looking to phase it out, starting with New Zealand banning people14 and under from ever being able to purchase tobacco products. You can bet your bottom dollar we'll follow suit sooner or later. Also just on 'intangible costs' that boof that total up by a $100 billion. If there's ever a dodgy calculation it's when they quote 'intangible costs'. Bit like to modelling used to justify the Covid lockdowns.. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7447267/ Oh yeah 100%. 'Intangible costs' are such a load of shit and used by both sides to bolster their position. . The cost of eating a donut is $1.50, the intangible costs of that donut to your health (assuming a worst case scenario heart attack) are $463 000.00.
Member since 2008.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xlucky it's illegal everywhere! what is? smoking? i'll tell my local safeway... You can smoke in your local Safeway? You can enter it without wearing a mask? +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt would be good if we could go into social contracts. Considering that unvaccinated people are disproportionally taking up all the medical resources at the moment and depriving many others of medical care, besides making them get vaccinated maybe they could forgo running to the same doctors that told them to get vaccinated in the first place once they ultimately get sick.
Or maybe they could agree to seek the help of the medical experts like Craig Kelly or Clive Palmer instead of clogging our hospitals.
As long as people pay taxes, medicare levies and private health insurance then everyone is doing their bit. Besides the selfishness of this statement and the obvious flaws in it, like the burden these unvaccinated people are placing on resources and diverting attention, do you know the costs it takes to care for all these people in hospital. It can range into the hundreds of thousands for each patient. So as a community we will have to pay hundreds of millions more....but hey they pay their taxes, or does it get deducted from their centrelink first? Maybe we should all call an ambulance if we have a headache, waste their time...I mean like who cares, I pay my taxes so I own them. Where does one start... Smokers? Drinkers? Kids experimenting with "recreational drugs". Thrill seekers doing extreme sports? People engaging in contact sports? The Obese? Diabetics? Fuck them all. No pay no treatment. Where does one start - Smoking is taxed at close to 2 billion a year to put back into the system - you want to throw that into the pool? It is also illegal anywhere inside through the entire country, and most places outdoors too. It's against the law for minors, one of the most heavily regulated things to help the hospital system. You want the same restrictions on the unvaccinated? For the rest see previous posts that have addressed these. Weird you said thrill seekers as well though. These must be cut and paste from something. Of the $2B raised from taxing smokers, how much goes to covering the costs? Smoking costs Australia close to $137 billion That is up from $31.5 billion in 2004–05. Intangible costs of smoking – including lost quality of life from living with a serious illness – are estimated to be almost $118 billion per year.
The report, from the National Drug Research Institute (NDRI) at Curtin University, provides the first update on smoking costs in Australia in 15 years, while detailing that tangible and intangible costs associated with smoking now sit at $136.9 billion annually, up from an estimated $31.5 billion in 2004–05.
Current tangible costs of smoking include:
- $5 billion in lost productivity and worker absences
- $2 billion for family members caring for someone with a smoking-related disease
- $6.8 billion in healthcare costs, including the cost of 1.7 million hospital admissions to treat smoking-related conditions.
Intangible costs, on the other hand, include years of life lost from premature deaths or lost quality of life from living with a serious illness, and were estimated at almost $118 billion per year. https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/smoking-costs-australia-close-to-137-billion Pretty shit example. The only reason smoking isn't completely illegal is it would probably cost more to enforce it's prohibition than the current healthcare burden. Despite this countries are looking to phase it out, starting with New Zealand banning people14 and under from ever being able to purchase tobacco products. You can bet your bottom dollar we'll follow suit sooner or later. Whether illegal or not is completely irrelevant. Its not illegal to not get vaccinated either. Why should the government spend its health dollars on a smoker? Why should employers pay a smoker for days off work for smoking-related illness? Or the government pay pensions prematurely for those who move out of the workforce prematurely due to smoking-related illness? Ok another example: Sports injuries. Look up the costs of that. Oh and one in 10 football-related injuries are life-threatening.... From this I getting that the unvaccinated are comparable to smokers - since you guys are doing the comparing.
And you advocate for a socialist style of medical care. From this I take it you are an advocate for user-pays style of medical care?
If it came down to it I’m with you. I too support the socialist system you are passionate about.
Having said that I can’t see why the unvaxxed wouldn’t agree to it though. They’d have nothing to lose if they’re right.
Just to be clear Australia doesn't actually have a socialist health system. What Australia has is universal health care-where everyone has access to health care but people can choose to be treated in government clinics or private ones. There are no private clinics in socialist systems. What you're advocating for is for some people to not be treated in the government system because their choices don't align with your politics. Which contradicts your political belief that health care should be accessible by anyone. Not unexpected- hypocrisy is a corner-stone of the modern day Leftist. I’m not advocating for anything comrade. Just discussion points. You can't have it both ways-we either have universal health care or we don't. In *a nation which has universal health care*-which you clearly support-you are advocating for people who choose to not get vaccinated to pay for their health costs if they get sick, but not others who similarly choose to engage in behaviors that are detrimental to their health.
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tsf
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 14K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xlucky it's illegal everywhere! what is? smoking? i'll tell my local safeway... You can smoke in your local Safeway? You can enter it without wearing a mask? +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt would be good if we could go into social contracts. Considering that unvaccinated people are disproportionally taking up all the medical resources at the moment and depriving many others of medical care, besides making them get vaccinated maybe they could forgo running to the same doctors that told them to get vaccinated in the first place once they ultimately get sick.
Or maybe they could agree to seek the help of the medical experts like Craig Kelly or Clive Palmer instead of clogging our hospitals.
As long as people pay taxes, medicare levies and private health insurance then everyone is doing their bit. Besides the selfishness of this statement and the obvious flaws in it, like the burden these unvaccinated people are placing on resources and diverting attention, do you know the costs it takes to care for all these people in hospital. It can range into the hundreds of thousands for each patient. So as a community we will have to pay hundreds of millions more....but hey they pay their taxes, or does it get deducted from their centrelink first? Maybe we should all call an ambulance if we have a headache, waste their time...I mean like who cares, I pay my taxes so I own them. Where does one start... Smokers? Drinkers? Kids experimenting with "recreational drugs". Thrill seekers doing extreme sports? People engaging in contact sports? The Obese? Diabetics? Fuck them all. No pay no treatment. Where does one start - Smoking is taxed at close to 2 billion a year to put back into the system - you want to throw that into the pool? It is also illegal anywhere inside through the entire country, and most places outdoors too. It's against the law for minors, one of the most heavily regulated things to help the hospital system. You want the same restrictions on the unvaccinated? For the rest see previous posts that have addressed these. Weird you said thrill seekers as well though. These must be cut and paste from something. Of the $2B raised from taxing smokers, how much goes to covering the costs? Smoking costs Australia close to $137 billion That is up from $31.5 billion in 2004–05. Intangible costs of smoking – including lost quality of life from living with a serious illness – are estimated to be almost $118 billion per year.
The report, from the National Drug Research Institute (NDRI) at Curtin University, provides the first update on smoking costs in Australia in 15 years, while detailing that tangible and intangible costs associated with smoking now sit at $136.9 billion annually, up from an estimated $31.5 billion in 2004–05.
Current tangible costs of smoking include:
- $5 billion in lost productivity and worker absences
- $2 billion for family members caring for someone with a smoking-related disease
- $6.8 billion in healthcare costs, including the cost of 1.7 million hospital admissions to treat smoking-related conditions.
Intangible costs, on the other hand, include years of life lost from premature deaths or lost quality of life from living with a serious illness, and were estimated at almost $118 billion per year. https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/smoking-costs-australia-close-to-137-billion Pretty shit example. The only reason smoking isn't completely illegal is it would probably cost more to enforce it's prohibition than the current healthcare burden. Despite this countries are looking to phase it out, starting with New Zealand banning people14 and under from ever being able to purchase tobacco products. You can bet your bottom dollar we'll follow suit sooner or later. Whether illegal or not is completely irrelevant. Its not illegal to not get vaccinated either. Why should the government spend its health dollars on a smoker? Why should employers pay a smoker for days off work for smoking-related illness? Or the government pay pensions prematurely for those who move out of the workforce prematurely due to smoking-related illness? Ok another example: Sports injuries. Look up the costs of that. Oh and one in 10 football-related injuries are life-threatening.... From this I getting that the unvaccinated are comparable to smokers - since you guys are doing the comparing.
And you advocate for a socialist style of medical care. From this I take it you are an advocate for user-pays style of medical care?
If it came down to it I’m with you. I too support the socialist system you are passionate about.
Having said that I can’t see why the unvaxxed wouldn’t agree to it though. They’d have nothing to lose if they’re right.
Just to be clear Australia doesn't actually have a socialist health system. What Australia has is universal health care-where everyone has access to health care but people can choose to be treated in government clinics or private ones. There are no private clinics in socialist systems. What you're advocating for is for some people to not be treated in the government system because their choices don't align with your politics. Which contradicts your political belief that health care should be accessible by anyone. Not unexpected- hypocrisy is a corner-stone of the modern day Leftist. I’m not advocating for anything comrade. Just discussion points. You can't have it both ways-we either have universal health care or we don't. In *a nation which has universal health care*-which you clearly support-you are advocating for people who choose to not get vaccinated to pay for their health costs if they get sick, I said I don't see a problem for them to made that agreement. As I said, just posing questions. My own view on healthcare is much complicated. You appear to be a vocal supporter of government funded equal care for all. Which I must say is admirable. My local green's candidate was just campaigning on that the other day, however he has some other whacky views
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sydneyfc1987
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xlucky it's illegal everywhere! what is? smoking? i'll tell my local safeway... You can smoke in your local Safeway? You can enter it without wearing a mask? +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt would be good if we could go into social contracts. Considering that unvaccinated people are disproportionally taking up all the medical resources at the moment and depriving many others of medical care, besides making them get vaccinated maybe they could forgo running to the same doctors that told them to get vaccinated in the first place once they ultimately get sick.
Or maybe they could agree to seek the help of the medical experts like Craig Kelly or Clive Palmer instead of clogging our hospitals.
As long as people pay taxes, medicare levies and private health insurance then everyone is doing their bit. Besides the selfishness of this statement and the obvious flaws in it, like the burden these unvaccinated people are placing on resources and diverting attention, do you know the costs it takes to care for all these people in hospital. It can range into the hundreds of thousands for each patient. So as a community we will have to pay hundreds of millions more....but hey they pay their taxes, or does it get deducted from their centrelink first? Maybe we should all call an ambulance if we have a headache, waste their time...I mean like who cares, I pay my taxes so I own them. Where does one start... Smokers? Drinkers? Kids experimenting with "recreational drugs". Thrill seekers doing extreme sports? People engaging in contact sports? The Obese? Diabetics? Fuck them all. No pay no treatment. Where does one start - Smoking is taxed at close to 2 billion a year to put back into the system - you want to throw that into the pool? It is also illegal anywhere inside through the entire country, and most places outdoors too. It's against the law for minors, one of the most heavily regulated things to help the hospital system. You want the same restrictions on the unvaccinated? For the rest see previous posts that have addressed these. Weird you said thrill seekers as well though. These must be cut and paste from something. Of the $2B raised from taxing smokers, how much goes to covering the costs? Smoking costs Australia close to $137 billion That is up from $31.5 billion in 2004–05. Intangible costs of smoking – including lost quality of life from living with a serious illness – are estimated to be almost $118 billion per year.
The report, from the National Drug Research Institute (NDRI) at Curtin University, provides the first update on smoking costs in Australia in 15 years, while detailing that tangible and intangible costs associated with smoking now sit at $136.9 billion annually, up from an estimated $31.5 billion in 2004–05.
Current tangible costs of smoking include:
- $5 billion in lost productivity and worker absences
- $2 billion for family members caring for someone with a smoking-related disease
- $6.8 billion in healthcare costs, including the cost of 1.7 million hospital admissions to treat smoking-related conditions.
Intangible costs, on the other hand, include years of life lost from premature deaths or lost quality of life from living with a serious illness, and were estimated at almost $118 billion per year. https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/smoking-costs-australia-close-to-137-billion Pretty shit example. The only reason smoking isn't completely illegal is it would probably cost more to enforce it's prohibition than the current healthcare burden. Despite this countries are looking to phase it out, starting with New Zealand banning people14 and under from ever being able to purchase tobacco products. You can bet your bottom dollar we'll follow suit sooner or later. Whether illegal or not is completely irrelevant. Its not illegal to not get vaccinated either. Why should the government spend its health dollars on a smoker? Why should employers pay a smoker for days off work for smoking-related illness? Or the government pay pensions prematurely for those who move out of the workforce prematurely due to smoking-related illness? Ok another example: Sports injuries. Look up the costs of that. Oh and one in 10 football-related injuries are life-threatening.... From this I getting that the unvaccinated are comparable to smokers - since you guys are doing the comparing.
And you advocate for a socialist style of medical care. From this I take it you are an advocate for user-pays style of medical care?
If it came down to it I’m with you. I too support the socialist system you are passionate about.
Having said that I can’t see why the unvaxxed wouldn’t agree to it though. They’d have nothing to lose if they’re right.
Just to be clear Australia doesn't actually have a socialist health system. What Australia has is universal health care-where everyone has access to health care but people can choose to be treated in government clinics or private ones. There are no private clinics in socialist systems. What you're advocating for is for some people to not be treated in the government system because their choices don't align with your politics. Which contradicts your political belief that health care should be accessible by anyone. Not unexpected- hypocrisy is a corner-stone of the modern day Leftist. I’m not advocating for anything comrade. Just discussion points. You can't have it both ways-we either have universal health care or we don't. In *a nation which has universal health care*-which you clearly support-you are advocating for people who choose to not get vaccinated to pay for their health costs if they get sick, but not others who similarly choose to engage in behaviors that are detrimental to their health. One thing you are missing in all of this is that COVID vaccines have been provided to every single Australian for free, courtesy of the government. Hell, you currently have a choice between THREE different vaccine technologies if through your own research have decided that one form of the vaccine has associated risks.
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xlucky it's illegal everywhere! what is? smoking? i'll tell my local safeway... You can smoke in your local Safeway? You can enter it without wearing a mask? +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt would be good if we could go into social contracts. Considering that unvaccinated people are disproportionally taking up all the medical resources at the moment and depriving many others of medical care, besides making them get vaccinated maybe they could forgo running to the same doctors that told them to get vaccinated in the first place once they ultimately get sick.
Or maybe they could agree to seek the help of the medical experts like Craig Kelly or Clive Palmer instead of clogging our hospitals.
As long as people pay taxes, medicare levies and private health insurance then everyone is doing their bit. Besides the selfishness of this statement and the obvious flaws in it, like the burden these unvaccinated people are placing on resources and diverting attention, do you know the costs it takes to care for all these people in hospital. It can range into the hundreds of thousands for each patient. So as a community we will have to pay hundreds of millions more....but hey they pay their taxes, or does it get deducted from their centrelink first? Maybe we should all call an ambulance if we have a headache, waste their time...I mean like who cares, I pay my taxes so I own them. Where does one start... Smokers? Drinkers? Kids experimenting with "recreational drugs". Thrill seekers doing extreme sports? People engaging in contact sports? The Obese? Diabetics? Fuck them all. No pay no treatment. Where does one start - Smoking is taxed at close to 2 billion a year to put back into the system - you want to throw that into the pool? It is also illegal anywhere inside through the entire country, and most places outdoors too. It's against the law for minors, one of the most heavily regulated things to help the hospital system. You want the same restrictions on the unvaccinated? For the rest see previous posts that have addressed these. Weird you said thrill seekers as well though. These must be cut and paste from something. Of the $2B raised from taxing smokers, how much goes to covering the costs? Smoking costs Australia close to $137 billion That is up from $31.5 billion in 2004–05. Intangible costs of smoking – including lost quality of life from living with a serious illness – are estimated to be almost $118 billion per year.
The report, from the National Drug Research Institute (NDRI) at Curtin University, provides the first update on smoking costs in Australia in 15 years, while detailing that tangible and intangible costs associated with smoking now sit at $136.9 billion annually, up from an estimated $31.5 billion in 2004–05.
Current tangible costs of smoking include:
- $5 billion in lost productivity and worker absences
- $2 billion for family members caring for someone with a smoking-related disease
- $6.8 billion in healthcare costs, including the cost of 1.7 million hospital admissions to treat smoking-related conditions.
Intangible costs, on the other hand, include years of life lost from premature deaths or lost quality of life from living with a serious illness, and were estimated at almost $118 billion per year. https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/smoking-costs-australia-close-to-137-billion Pretty shit example. The only reason smoking isn't completely illegal is it would probably cost more to enforce it's prohibition than the current healthcare burden. Despite this countries are looking to phase it out, starting with New Zealand banning people14 and under from ever being able to purchase tobacco products. You can bet your bottom dollar we'll follow suit sooner or later. Whether illegal or not is completely irrelevant. Its not illegal to not get vaccinated either. Why should the government spend its health dollars on a smoker? Why should employers pay a smoker for days off work for smoking-related illness? Or the government pay pensions prematurely for those who move out of the workforce prematurely due to smoking-related illness? Ok another example: Sports injuries. Look up the costs of that. Oh and one in 10 football-related injuries are life-threatening.... From this I getting that the unvaccinated are comparable to smokers - since you guys are doing the comparing.
And you advocate for a socialist style of medical care. From this I take it you are an advocate for user-pays style of medical care?
If it came down to it I’m with you. I too support the socialist system you are passionate about.
Having said that I can’t see why the unvaxxed wouldn’t agree to it though. They’d have nothing to lose if they’re right.
Just to be clear Australia doesn't actually have a socialist health system. What Australia has is universal health care-where everyone has access to health care but people can choose to be treated in government clinics or private ones. There are no private clinics in socialist systems. What you're advocating for is for some people to not be treated in the government system because their choices don't align with your politics. Which contradicts your political belief that health care should be accessible by anyone. Not unexpected- hypocrisy is a corner-stone of the modern day Leftist. I’m not advocating for anything comrade. Just discussion points. You can't have it both ways-we either have universal health care or we don't. In *a nation which has universal health care*-which you clearly support-you are advocating for people who choose to not get vaccinated to pay for their health costs if they get sick, but not others who similarly choose to engage in behaviors that are detrimental to their health. One thing you are missing in all of this is that COVID vaccines have been provided to every single Australian for free, courtesy of the government. Hell, you currently have a choice between THREE different vaccine technologies if through your own research have decided that one form of the vaccine has associated risks. Typical leftist, leftard, Marxist, socialist, communist, wokist, (did I leave out any buzzwords) propoganda.
Member since 2008.
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cesspit
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 357,
Visits: 0
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+xIs it just me or are some posts being removed? its about time too much misinformation has already been posted here
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
Visits: 0
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+x+xIs it just me or are some posts being removed? its about time too much misinformation has already been posted here They should be removing troll multis such as yourself. Or should I say Rusty?
Member since 2008.
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mcjules
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 8.4K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+xIs it just me or are some posts being removed? its about time too much misinformation has already been posted here They should be removing troll multis such as yourself. Or should I say Rusty? Not sure what's the case here but some people post from VPN IPs and those are also very commonly used by spammers so the forum's spam protection drops them.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xlucky it's illegal everywhere! what is? smoking? i'll tell my local safeway... You can smoke in your local Safeway? You can enter it without wearing a mask? +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt would be good if we could go into social contracts. Considering that unvaccinated people are disproportionally taking up all the medical resources at the moment and depriving many others of medical care, besides making them get vaccinated maybe they could forgo running to the same doctors that told them to get vaccinated in the first place once they ultimately get sick.
Or maybe they could agree to seek the help of the medical experts like Craig Kelly or Clive Palmer instead of clogging our hospitals.
As long as people pay taxes, medicare levies and private health insurance then everyone is doing their bit. Besides the selfishness of this statement and the obvious flaws in it, like the burden these unvaccinated people are placing on resources and diverting attention, do you know the costs it takes to care for all these people in hospital. It can range into the hundreds of thousands for each patient. So as a community we will have to pay hundreds of millions more....but hey they pay their taxes, or does it get deducted from their centrelink first? Maybe we should all call an ambulance if we have a headache, waste their time...I mean like who cares, I pay my taxes so I own them. Where does one start... Smokers? Drinkers? Kids experimenting with "recreational drugs". Thrill seekers doing extreme sports? People engaging in contact sports? The Obese? Diabetics? Fuck them all. No pay no treatment. Where does one start - Smoking is taxed at close to 2 billion a year to put back into the system - you want to throw that into the pool? It is also illegal anywhere inside through the entire country, and most places outdoors too. It's against the law for minors, one of the most heavily regulated things to help the hospital system. You want the same restrictions on the unvaccinated? For the rest see previous posts that have addressed these. Weird you said thrill seekers as well though. These must be cut and paste from something. Of the $2B raised from taxing smokers, how much goes to covering the costs? Smoking costs Australia close to $137 billion That is up from $31.5 billion in 2004–05. Intangible costs of smoking – including lost quality of life from living with a serious illness – are estimated to be almost $118 billion per year.
The report, from the National Drug Research Institute (NDRI) at Curtin University, provides the first update on smoking costs in Australia in 15 years, while detailing that tangible and intangible costs associated with smoking now sit at $136.9 billion annually, up from an estimated $31.5 billion in 2004–05.
Current tangible costs of smoking include:
- $5 billion in lost productivity and worker absences
- $2 billion for family members caring for someone with a smoking-related disease
- $6.8 billion in healthcare costs, including the cost of 1.7 million hospital admissions to treat smoking-related conditions.
Intangible costs, on the other hand, include years of life lost from premature deaths or lost quality of life from living with a serious illness, and were estimated at almost $118 billion per year. https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/smoking-costs-australia-close-to-137-billion Pretty shit example. The only reason smoking isn't completely illegal is it would probably cost more to enforce it's prohibition than the current healthcare burden. Despite this countries are looking to phase it out, starting with New Zealand banning people14 and under from ever being able to purchase tobacco products. You can bet your bottom dollar we'll follow suit sooner or later. Whether illegal or not is completely irrelevant. Its not illegal to not get vaccinated either. Why should the government spend its health dollars on a smoker? Why should employers pay a smoker for days off work for smoking-related illness? Or the government pay pensions prematurely for those who move out of the workforce prematurely due to smoking-related illness? Ok another example: Sports injuries. Look up the costs of that. Oh and one in 10 football-related injuries are life-threatening.... From this I getting that the unvaccinated are comparable to smokers - since you guys are doing the comparing.
And you advocate for a socialist style of medical care. From this I take it you are an advocate for user-pays style of medical care?
If it came down to it I’m with you. I too support the socialist system you are passionate about.
Having said that I can’t see why the unvaxxed wouldn’t agree to it though. They’d have nothing to lose if they’re right.
Just to be clear Australia doesn't actually have a socialist health system. What Australia has is universal health care-where everyone has access to health care but people can choose to be treated in government clinics or private ones. There are no private clinics in socialist systems. What you're advocating for is for some people to not be treated in the government system because their choices don't align with your politics. Which contradicts your political belief that health care should be accessible by anyone. Not unexpected- hypocrisy is a corner-stone of the modern day Leftist. I’m not advocating for anything comrade. Just discussion points. You can't have it both ways-we either have universal health care or we don't. In *a nation which has universal health care*-which you clearly support-you are advocating for people who choose to not get vaccinated to pay for their health costs if they get sick, but not others who similarly choose to engage in behaviors that are detrimental to their health. One thing you are missing in all of this is that COVID vaccines have been provided to every single Australian for free, courtesy of the government. Hell, you currently have a choice between THREE different vaccine technologies if through your own research have decided that one form of the vaccine has associated risks. Irrelevant. The argument being made is if people make a choice that may result in injury or illness they should have to pay for their own health care. No problem with that-do the same for all the choices that people make that result in injury or illness.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xlucky it's illegal everywhere! what is? smoking? i'll tell my local safeway... You can smoke in your local Safeway? You can enter it without wearing a mask? +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt would be good if we could go into social contracts. Considering that unvaccinated people are disproportionally taking up all the medical resources at the moment and depriving many others of medical care, besides making them get vaccinated maybe they could forgo running to the same doctors that told them to get vaccinated in the first place once they ultimately get sick.
Or maybe they could agree to seek the help of the medical experts like Craig Kelly or Clive Palmer instead of clogging our hospitals.
As long as people pay taxes, medicare levies and private health insurance then everyone is doing their bit. Besides the selfishness of this statement and the obvious flaws in it, like the burden these unvaccinated people are placing on resources and diverting attention, do you know the costs it takes to care for all these people in hospital. It can range into the hundreds of thousands for each patient. So as a community we will have to pay hundreds of millions more....but hey they pay their taxes, or does it get deducted from their centrelink first? Maybe we should all call an ambulance if we have a headache, waste their time...I mean like who cares, I pay my taxes so I own them. Where does one start... Smokers? Drinkers? Kids experimenting with "recreational drugs". Thrill seekers doing extreme sports? People engaging in contact sports? The Obese? Diabetics? Fuck them all. No pay no treatment. Where does one start - Smoking is taxed at close to 2 billion a year to put back into the system - you want to throw that into the pool? It is also illegal anywhere inside through the entire country, and most places outdoors too. It's against the law for minors, one of the most heavily regulated things to help the hospital system. You want the same restrictions on the unvaccinated? For the rest see previous posts that have addressed these. Weird you said thrill seekers as well though. These must be cut and paste from something. Of the $2B raised from taxing smokers, how much goes to covering the costs? Smoking costs Australia close to $137 billion That is up from $31.5 billion in 2004–05. Intangible costs of smoking – including lost quality of life from living with a serious illness – are estimated to be almost $118 billion per year.
The report, from the National Drug Research Institute (NDRI) at Curtin University, provides the first update on smoking costs in Australia in 15 years, while detailing that tangible and intangible costs associated with smoking now sit at $136.9 billion annually, up from an estimated $31.5 billion in 2004–05.
Current tangible costs of smoking include:
- $5 billion in lost productivity and worker absences
- $2 billion for family members caring for someone with a smoking-related disease
- $6.8 billion in healthcare costs, including the cost of 1.7 million hospital admissions to treat smoking-related conditions.
Intangible costs, on the other hand, include years of life lost from premature deaths or lost quality of life from living with a serious illness, and were estimated at almost $118 billion per year. https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/smoking-costs-australia-close-to-137-billion Pretty shit example. The only reason smoking isn't completely illegal is it would probably cost more to enforce it's prohibition than the current healthcare burden. Despite this countries are looking to phase it out, starting with New Zealand banning people14 and under from ever being able to purchase tobacco products. You can bet your bottom dollar we'll follow suit sooner or later. Whether illegal or not is completely irrelevant. Its not illegal to not get vaccinated either. Why should the government spend its health dollars on a smoker? Why should employers pay a smoker for days off work for smoking-related illness? Or the government pay pensions prematurely for those who move out of the workforce prematurely due to smoking-related illness? Ok another example: Sports injuries. Look up the costs of that. Oh and one in 10 football-related injuries are life-threatening.... From this I getting that the unvaccinated are comparable to smokers - since you guys are doing the comparing.
And you advocate for a socialist style of medical care. From this I take it you are an advocate for user-pays style of medical care?
If it came down to it I’m with you. I too support the socialist system you are passionate about.
Having said that I can’t see why the unvaxxed wouldn’t agree to it though. They’d have nothing to lose if they’re right.
Just to be clear Australia doesn't actually have a socialist health system. What Australia has is universal health care-where everyone has access to health care but people can choose to be treated in government clinics or private ones. There are no private clinics in socialist systems. What you're advocating for is for some people to not be treated in the government system because their choices don't align with your politics. Which contradicts your political belief that health care should be accessible by anyone. Not unexpected- hypocrisy is a corner-stone of the modern day Leftist. I’m not advocating for anything comrade. Just discussion points. You can't have it both ways-we either have universal health care or we don't. In *a nation which has universal health care*-which you clearly support-you are advocating for people who choose to not get vaccinated to pay for their health costs if they get sick, I said I don't see a problem for them to made that agreement. As I said, just posing questions. My own view on healthcare is much complicated. You appear to be a vocal supporter of government funded equal care for all. Which I must say is admirable. My local green's candidate was just campaigning on that the other day, however he has some other whacky views No i'm actually a supporter of not acting hypocritically. We either have universal health care, or not. Pick one.
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sydneyfc1987
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xlucky it's illegal everywhere! what is? smoking? i'll tell my local safeway... You can smoke in your local Safeway? You can enter it without wearing a mask? +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt would be good if we could go into social contracts. Considering that unvaccinated people are disproportionally taking up all the medical resources at the moment and depriving many others of medical care, besides making them get vaccinated maybe they could forgo running to the same doctors that told them to get vaccinated in the first place once they ultimately get sick.
Or maybe they could agree to seek the help of the medical experts like Craig Kelly or Clive Palmer instead of clogging our hospitals.
As long as people pay taxes, medicare levies and private health insurance then everyone is doing their bit. Besides the selfishness of this statement and the obvious flaws in it, like the burden these unvaccinated people are placing on resources and diverting attention, do you know the costs it takes to care for all these people in hospital. It can range into the hundreds of thousands for each patient. So as a community we will have to pay hundreds of millions more....but hey they pay their taxes, or does it get deducted from their centrelink first? Maybe we should all call an ambulance if we have a headache, waste their time...I mean like who cares, I pay my taxes so I own them. Where does one start... Smokers? Drinkers? Kids experimenting with "recreational drugs". Thrill seekers doing extreme sports? People engaging in contact sports? The Obese? Diabetics? Fuck them all. No pay no treatment. Where does one start - Smoking is taxed at close to 2 billion a year to put back into the system - you want to throw that into the pool? It is also illegal anywhere inside through the entire country, and most places outdoors too. It's against the law for minors, one of the most heavily regulated things to help the hospital system. You want the same restrictions on the unvaccinated? For the rest see previous posts that have addressed these. Weird you said thrill seekers as well though. These must be cut and paste from something. Of the $2B raised from taxing smokers, how much goes to covering the costs? Smoking costs Australia close to $137 billion That is up from $31.5 billion in 2004–05. Intangible costs of smoking – including lost quality of life from living with a serious illness – are estimated to be almost $118 billion per year.
The report, from the National Drug Research Institute (NDRI) at Curtin University, provides the first update on smoking costs in Australia in 15 years, while detailing that tangible and intangible costs associated with smoking now sit at $136.9 billion annually, up from an estimated $31.5 billion in 2004–05.
Current tangible costs of smoking include:
- $5 billion in lost productivity and worker absences
- $2 billion for family members caring for someone with a smoking-related disease
- $6.8 billion in healthcare costs, including the cost of 1.7 million hospital admissions to treat smoking-related conditions.
Intangible costs, on the other hand, include years of life lost from premature deaths or lost quality of life from living with a serious illness, and were estimated at almost $118 billion per year. https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/smoking-costs-australia-close-to-137-billion Pretty shit example. The only reason smoking isn't completely illegal is it would probably cost more to enforce it's prohibition than the current healthcare burden. Despite this countries are looking to phase it out, starting with New Zealand banning people14 and under from ever being able to purchase tobacco products. You can bet your bottom dollar we'll follow suit sooner or later. Whether illegal or not is completely irrelevant. Its not illegal to not get vaccinated either. Why should the government spend its health dollars on a smoker? Why should employers pay a smoker for days off work for smoking-related illness? Or the government pay pensions prematurely for those who move out of the workforce prematurely due to smoking-related illness? Ok another example: Sports injuries. Look up the costs of that. Oh and one in 10 football-related injuries are life-threatening.... From this I getting that the unvaccinated are comparable to smokers - since you guys are doing the comparing.
And you advocate for a socialist style of medical care. From this I take it you are an advocate for user-pays style of medical care?
If it came down to it I’m with you. I too support the socialist system you are passionate about.
Having said that I can’t see why the unvaxxed wouldn’t agree to it though. They’d have nothing to lose if they’re right.
Just to be clear Australia doesn't actually have a socialist health system. What Australia has is universal health care-where everyone has access to health care but people can choose to be treated in government clinics or private ones. There are no private clinics in socialist systems. What you're advocating for is for some people to not be treated in the government system because their choices don't align with your politics. Which contradicts your political belief that health care should be accessible by anyone. Not unexpected- hypocrisy is a corner-stone of the modern day Leftist. I’m not advocating for anything comrade. Just discussion points. You can't have it both ways-we either have universal health care or we don't. In *a nation which has universal health care*-which you clearly support-you are advocating for people who choose to not get vaccinated to pay for their health costs if they get sick, I said I don't see a problem for them to made that agreement. As I said, just posing questions. My own view on healthcare is much complicated. You appear to be a vocal supporter of government funded equal care for all. Which I must say is admirable. My local green's candidate was just campaigning on that the other day, however he has some other whacky views No i'm actually a supporter of not acting hypocritically. We either have universal health care, or not. Pick one. Not really. The term "universal health care" is a blanket term that refers to all sorts of different systems with different levels of cover. Australia for example has highly limited dental care despite adverse long term issues that poor dental health can create for people over time.
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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sydneyfc1987
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xlucky it's illegal everywhere! what is? smoking? i'll tell my local safeway... You can smoke in your local Safeway? You can enter it without wearing a mask? +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt would be good if we could go into social contracts. Considering that unvaccinated people are disproportionally taking up all the medical resources at the moment and depriving many others of medical care, besides making them get vaccinated maybe they could forgo running to the same doctors that told them to get vaccinated in the first place once they ultimately get sick.
Or maybe they could agree to seek the help of the medical experts like Craig Kelly or Clive Palmer instead of clogging our hospitals.
As long as people pay taxes, medicare levies and private health insurance then everyone is doing their bit. Besides the selfishness of this statement and the obvious flaws in it, like the burden these unvaccinated people are placing on resources and diverting attention, do you know the costs it takes to care for all these people in hospital. It can range into the hundreds of thousands for each patient. So as a community we will have to pay hundreds of millions more....but hey they pay their taxes, or does it get deducted from their centrelink first? Maybe we should all call an ambulance if we have a headache, waste their time...I mean like who cares, I pay my taxes so I own them. Where does one start... Smokers? Drinkers? Kids experimenting with "recreational drugs". Thrill seekers doing extreme sports? People engaging in contact sports? The Obese? Diabetics? Fuck them all. No pay no treatment. Where does one start - Smoking is taxed at close to 2 billion a year to put back into the system - you want to throw that into the pool? It is also illegal anywhere inside through the entire country, and most places outdoors too. It's against the law for minors, one of the most heavily regulated things to help the hospital system. You want the same restrictions on the unvaccinated? For the rest see previous posts that have addressed these. Weird you said thrill seekers as well though. These must be cut and paste from something. Of the $2B raised from taxing smokers, how much goes to covering the costs? Smoking costs Australia close to $137 billion That is up from $31.5 billion in 2004–05. Intangible costs of smoking – including lost quality of life from living with a serious illness – are estimated to be almost $118 billion per year.
The report, from the National Drug Research Institute (NDRI) at Curtin University, provides the first update on smoking costs in Australia in 15 years, while detailing that tangible and intangible costs associated with smoking now sit at $136.9 billion annually, up from an estimated $31.5 billion in 2004–05.
Current tangible costs of smoking include:
- $5 billion in lost productivity and worker absences
- $2 billion for family members caring for someone with a smoking-related disease
- $6.8 billion in healthcare costs, including the cost of 1.7 million hospital admissions to treat smoking-related conditions.
Intangible costs, on the other hand, include years of life lost from premature deaths or lost quality of life from living with a serious illness, and were estimated at almost $118 billion per year. https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/smoking-costs-australia-close-to-137-billion Pretty shit example. The only reason smoking isn't completely illegal is it would probably cost more to enforce it's prohibition than the current healthcare burden. Despite this countries are looking to phase it out, starting with New Zealand banning people14 and under from ever being able to purchase tobacco products. You can bet your bottom dollar we'll follow suit sooner or later. Whether illegal or not is completely irrelevant. Its not illegal to not get vaccinated either. Why should the government spend its health dollars on a smoker? Why should employers pay a smoker for days off work for smoking-related illness? Or the government pay pensions prematurely for those who move out of the workforce prematurely due to smoking-related illness? Ok another example: Sports injuries. Look up the costs of that. Oh and one in 10 football-related injuries are life-threatening.... From this I getting that the unvaccinated are comparable to smokers - since you guys are doing the comparing.
And you advocate for a socialist style of medical care. From this I take it you are an advocate for user-pays style of medical care?
If it came down to it I’m with you. I too support the socialist system you are passionate about.
Having said that I can’t see why the unvaxxed wouldn’t agree to it though. They’d have nothing to lose if they’re right.
Just to be clear Australia doesn't actually have a socialist health system. What Australia has is universal health care-where everyone has access to health care but people can choose to be treated in government clinics or private ones. There are no private clinics in socialist systems. What you're advocating for is for some people to not be treated in the government system because their choices don't align with your politics. Which contradicts your political belief that health care should be accessible by anyone. Not unexpected- hypocrisy is a corner-stone of the modern day Leftist. I’m not advocating for anything comrade. Just discussion points. You can't have it both ways-we either have universal health care or we don't. In *a nation which has universal health care*-which you clearly support-you are advocating for people who choose to not get vaccinated to pay for their health costs if they get sick, but not others who similarly choose to engage in behaviors that are detrimental to their health. One thing you are missing in all of this is that COVID vaccines have been provided to every single Australian for free, courtesy of the government. Hell, you currently have a choice between THREE different vaccine technologies if through your own research have decided that one form of the vaccine has associated risks. Irrelevant. The argument being made is if people make a choice that may result in injury or illness they should have to pay for their own health care. No problem with that-do the same for all the choices that people make that result in injury or illness. How is it irrelevant? We are specifically talking about a "universal health care" system that currently provides free preventative measures to all citizens.
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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Muz
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Posts: 15K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xlucky it's illegal everywhere! what is? smoking? i'll tell my local safeway... You can smoke in your local Safeway? You can enter it without wearing a mask? +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt would be good if we could go into social contracts. Considering that unvaccinated people are disproportionally taking up all the medical resources at the moment and depriving many others of medical care, besides making them get vaccinated maybe they could forgo running to the same doctors that told them to get vaccinated in the first place once they ultimately get sick.
Or maybe they could agree to seek the help of the medical experts like Craig Kelly or Clive Palmer instead of clogging our hospitals.
As long as people pay taxes, medicare levies and private health insurance then everyone is doing their bit. Besides the selfishness of this statement and the obvious flaws in it, like the burden these unvaccinated people are placing on resources and diverting attention, do you know the costs it takes to care for all these people in hospital. It can range into the hundreds of thousands for each patient. So as a community we will have to pay hundreds of millions more....but hey they pay their taxes, or does it get deducted from their centrelink first? Maybe we should all call an ambulance if we have a headache, waste their time...I mean like who cares, I pay my taxes so I own them. Where does one start... Smokers? Drinkers? Kids experimenting with "recreational drugs". Thrill seekers doing extreme sports? People engaging in contact sports? The Obese? Diabetics? Fuck them all. No pay no treatment. Where does one start - Smoking is taxed at close to 2 billion a year to put back into the system - you want to throw that into the pool? It is also illegal anywhere inside through the entire country, and most places outdoors too. It's against the law for minors, one of the most heavily regulated things to help the hospital system. You want the same restrictions on the unvaccinated? For the rest see previous posts that have addressed these. Weird you said thrill seekers as well though. These must be cut and paste from something. Of the $2B raised from taxing smokers, how much goes to covering the costs? Smoking costs Australia close to $137 billion That is up from $31.5 billion in 2004–05. Intangible costs of smoking – including lost quality of life from living with a serious illness – are estimated to be almost $118 billion per year.
The report, from the National Drug Research Institute (NDRI) at Curtin University, provides the first update on smoking costs in Australia in 15 years, while detailing that tangible and intangible costs associated with smoking now sit at $136.9 billion annually, up from an estimated $31.5 billion in 2004–05.
Current tangible costs of smoking include:
- $5 billion in lost productivity and worker absences
- $2 billion for family members caring for someone with a smoking-related disease
- $6.8 billion in healthcare costs, including the cost of 1.7 million hospital admissions to treat smoking-related conditions.
Intangible costs, on the other hand, include years of life lost from premature deaths or lost quality of life from living with a serious illness, and were estimated at almost $118 billion per year. https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/smoking-costs-australia-close-to-137-billion Pretty shit example. The only reason smoking isn't completely illegal is it would probably cost more to enforce it's prohibition than the current healthcare burden. Despite this countries are looking to phase it out, starting with New Zealand banning people14 and under from ever being able to purchase tobacco products. You can bet your bottom dollar we'll follow suit sooner or later. Whether illegal or not is completely irrelevant. Its not illegal to not get vaccinated either. Why should the government spend its health dollars on a smoker? Why should employers pay a smoker for days off work for smoking-related illness? Or the government pay pensions prematurely for those who move out of the workforce prematurely due to smoking-related illness? Ok another example: Sports injuries. Look up the costs of that. Oh and one in 10 football-related injuries are life-threatening.... From this I getting that the unvaccinated are comparable to smokers - since you guys are doing the comparing.
And you advocate for a socialist style of medical care. From this I take it you are an advocate for user-pays style of medical care?
If it came down to it I’m with you. I too support the socialist system you are passionate about.
Having said that I can’t see why the unvaxxed wouldn’t agree to it though. They’d have nothing to lose if they’re right.
Just to be clear Australia doesn't actually have a socialist health system. What Australia has is universal health care-where everyone has access to health care but people can choose to be treated in government clinics or private ones. There are no private clinics in socialist systems. What you're advocating for is for some people to not be treated in the government system because their choices don't align with your politics. Which contradicts your political belief that health care should be accessible by anyone. Not unexpected- hypocrisy is a corner-stone of the modern day Leftist. I’m not advocating for anything comrade. Just discussion points. You can't have it both ways-we either have universal health care or we don't. In *a nation which has universal health care*-which you clearly support-you are advocating for people who choose to not get vaccinated to pay for their health costs if they get sick, I said I don't see a problem for them to made that agreement. As I said, just posing questions. My own view on healthcare is much complicated. You appear to be a vocal supporter of government funded equal care for all. Which I must say is admirable. My local green's candidate was just campaigning on that the other day, however he has some other whacky views No i'm actually a supporter of not acting hypocritically. We either have universal health care, or not. Pick one. Really it's just semantics isn't it? 'Universal health care' which is paid for by everyone for everyone who wants to use it is a pretty 'socialist' construct. Let's be honest.
Member since 2008.
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sydneyfc1987
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xlucky it's illegal everywhere! what is? smoking? i'll tell my local safeway... You can smoke in your local Safeway? You can enter it without wearing a mask? +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt would be good if we could go into social contracts. Considering that unvaccinated people are disproportionally taking up all the medical resources at the moment and depriving many others of medical care, besides making them get vaccinated maybe they could forgo running to the same doctors that told them to get vaccinated in the first place once they ultimately get sick.
Or maybe they could agree to seek the help of the medical experts like Craig Kelly or Clive Palmer instead of clogging our hospitals.
As long as people pay taxes, medicare levies and private health insurance then everyone is doing their bit. Besides the selfishness of this statement and the obvious flaws in it, like the burden these unvaccinated people are placing on resources and diverting attention, do you know the costs it takes to care for all these people in hospital. It can range into the hundreds of thousands for each patient. So as a community we will have to pay hundreds of millions more....but hey they pay their taxes, or does it get deducted from their centrelink first? Maybe we should all call an ambulance if we have a headache, waste their time...I mean like who cares, I pay my taxes so I own them. Where does one start... Smokers? Drinkers? Kids experimenting with "recreational drugs". Thrill seekers doing extreme sports? People engaging in contact sports? The Obese? Diabetics? Fuck them all. No pay no treatment. Where does one start - Smoking is taxed at close to 2 billion a year to put back into the system - you want to throw that into the pool? It is also illegal anywhere inside through the entire country, and most places outdoors too. It's against the law for minors, one of the most heavily regulated things to help the hospital system. You want the same restrictions on the unvaccinated? For the rest see previous posts that have addressed these. Weird you said thrill seekers as well though. These must be cut and paste from something. Of the $2B raised from taxing smokers, how much goes to covering the costs? Smoking costs Australia close to $137 billion That is up from $31.5 billion in 2004–05. Intangible costs of smoking – including lost quality of life from living with a serious illness – are estimated to be almost $118 billion per year.
The report, from the National Drug Research Institute (NDRI) at Curtin University, provides the first update on smoking costs in Australia in 15 years, while detailing that tangible and intangible costs associated with smoking now sit at $136.9 billion annually, up from an estimated $31.5 billion in 2004–05.
Current tangible costs of smoking include:
- $5 billion in lost productivity and worker absences
- $2 billion for family members caring for someone with a smoking-related disease
- $6.8 billion in healthcare costs, including the cost of 1.7 million hospital admissions to treat smoking-related conditions.
Intangible costs, on the other hand, include years of life lost from premature deaths or lost quality of life from living with a serious illness, and were estimated at almost $118 billion per year. https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/smoking-costs-australia-close-to-137-billion Pretty shit example. The only reason smoking isn't completely illegal is it would probably cost more to enforce it's prohibition than the current healthcare burden. Despite this countries are looking to phase it out, starting with New Zealand banning people14 and under from ever being able to purchase tobacco products. You can bet your bottom dollar we'll follow suit sooner or later. Whether illegal or not is completely irrelevant. Its not illegal to not get vaccinated either. Why should the government spend its health dollars on a smoker? Why should employers pay a smoker for days off work for smoking-related illness? Or the government pay pensions prematurely for those who move out of the workforce prematurely due to smoking-related illness? Ok another example: Sports injuries. Look up the costs of that. Oh and one in 10 football-related injuries are life-threatening.... From this I getting that the unvaccinated are comparable to smokers - since you guys are doing the comparing.
And you advocate for a socialist style of medical care. From this I take it you are an advocate for user-pays style of medical care?
If it came down to it I’m with you. I too support the socialist system you are passionate about.
Having said that I can’t see why the unvaxxed wouldn’t agree to it though. They’d have nothing to lose if they’re right.
Just to be clear Australia doesn't actually have a socialist health system. What Australia has is universal health care-where everyone has access to health care but people can choose to be treated in government clinics or private ones. There are no private clinics in socialist systems. What you're advocating for is for some people to not be treated in the government system because their choices don't align with your politics. Which contradicts your political belief that health care should be accessible by anyone. Not unexpected- hypocrisy is a corner-stone of the modern day Leftist. I’m not advocating for anything comrade. Just discussion points. You can't have it both ways-we either have universal health care or we don't. In *a nation which has universal health care*-which you clearly support-you are advocating for people who choose to not get vaccinated to pay for their health costs if they get sick, I said I don't see a problem for them to made that agreement. As I said, just posing questions. My own view on healthcare is much complicated. You appear to be a vocal supporter of government funded equal care for all. Which I must say is admirable. My local green's candidate was just campaigning on that the other day, however he has some other whacky views No i'm actually a supporter of not acting hypocritically. We either have universal health care, or not. Pick one. Really it's just semantics isn't it? 'Universal health care' which is paid for by everyone for everyone who wants to use it is a pretty 'socialist' construct. Let's be honest. Western societies all have "socialist" tendencies to an extent.
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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tsf
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 14K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xlucky it's illegal everywhere! what is? smoking? i'll tell my local safeway... You can smoke in your local Safeway? You can enter it without wearing a mask? +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt would be good if we could go into social contracts. Considering that unvaccinated people are disproportionally taking up all the medical resources at the moment and depriving many others of medical care, besides making them get vaccinated maybe they could forgo running to the same doctors that told them to get vaccinated in the first place once they ultimately get sick.
Or maybe they could agree to seek the help of the medical experts like Craig Kelly or Clive Palmer instead of clogging our hospitals.
As long as people pay taxes, medicare levies and private health insurance then everyone is doing their bit. Besides the selfishness of this statement and the obvious flaws in it, like the burden these unvaccinated people are placing on resources and diverting attention, do you know the costs it takes to care for all these people in hospital. It can range into the hundreds of thousands for each patient. So as a community we will have to pay hundreds of millions more....but hey they pay their taxes, or does it get deducted from their centrelink first? Maybe we should all call an ambulance if we have a headache, waste their time...I mean like who cares, I pay my taxes so I own them. Where does one start... Smokers? Drinkers? Kids experimenting with "recreational drugs". Thrill seekers doing extreme sports? People engaging in contact sports? The Obese? Diabetics? Fuck them all. No pay no treatment. Where does one start - Smoking is taxed at close to 2 billion a year to put back into the system - you want to throw that into the pool? It is also illegal anywhere inside through the entire country, and most places outdoors too. It's against the law for minors, one of the most heavily regulated things to help the hospital system. You want the same restrictions on the unvaccinated? For the rest see previous posts that have addressed these. Weird you said thrill seekers as well though. These must be cut and paste from something. Of the $2B raised from taxing smokers, how much goes to covering the costs? Smoking costs Australia close to $137 billion That is up from $31.5 billion in 2004–05. Intangible costs of smoking – including lost quality of life from living with a serious illness – are estimated to be almost $118 billion per year.
The report, from the National Drug Research Institute (NDRI) at Curtin University, provides the first update on smoking costs in Australia in 15 years, while detailing that tangible and intangible costs associated with smoking now sit at $136.9 billion annually, up from an estimated $31.5 billion in 2004–05.
Current tangible costs of smoking include:
- $5 billion in lost productivity and worker absences
- $2 billion for family members caring for someone with a smoking-related disease
- $6.8 billion in healthcare costs, including the cost of 1.7 million hospital admissions to treat smoking-related conditions.
Intangible costs, on the other hand, include years of life lost from premature deaths or lost quality of life from living with a serious illness, and were estimated at almost $118 billion per year. https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/smoking-costs-australia-close-to-137-billion Pretty shit example. The only reason smoking isn't completely illegal is it would probably cost more to enforce it's prohibition than the current healthcare burden. Despite this countries are looking to phase it out, starting with New Zealand banning people14 and under from ever being able to purchase tobacco products. You can bet your bottom dollar we'll follow suit sooner or later. Whether illegal or not is completely irrelevant. Its not illegal to not get vaccinated either. Why should the government spend its health dollars on a smoker? Why should employers pay a smoker for days off work for smoking-related illness? Or the government pay pensions prematurely for those who move out of the workforce prematurely due to smoking-related illness? Ok another example: Sports injuries. Look up the costs of that. Oh and one in 10 football-related injuries are life-threatening.... From this I getting that the unvaccinated are comparable to smokers - since you guys are doing the comparing.
And you advocate for a socialist style of medical care. From this I take it you are an advocate for user-pays style of medical care?
If it came down to it I’m with you. I too support the socialist system you are passionate about.
Having said that I can’t see why the unvaxxed wouldn’t agree to it though. They’d have nothing to lose if they’re right.
Just to be clear Australia doesn't actually have a socialist health system. What Australia has is universal health care-where everyone has access to health care but people can choose to be treated in government clinics or private ones. There are no private clinics in socialist systems. What you're advocating for is for some people to not be treated in the government system because their choices don't align with your politics. Which contradicts your political belief that health care should be accessible by anyone. Not unexpected- hypocrisy is a corner-stone of the modern day Leftist. I’m not advocating for anything comrade. Just discussion points. You can't have it both ways-we either have universal health care or we don't. In *a nation which has universal health care*-which you clearly support-you are advocating for people who choose to not get vaccinated to pay for their health costs if they get sick, I said I don't see a problem for them to made that agreement. As I said, just posing questions. My own view on healthcare is much complicated. You appear to be a vocal supporter of government funded equal care for all. Which I must say is admirable. My local green's candidate was just campaigning on that the other day, however he has some other whacky views No i'm actually a supporter of not acting hypocritically. We either have universal health care, or not. Pick one. Really it's just semantics isn't it? 'Universal health care' which is paid for by everyone for everyone who wants to use it is a pretty 'socialist' construct. Let's be honest. Yeah he just doesn’t want to admit he’s been arguing for socialist ideals and desires a socialist construct utopia.
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sydneyfc1987
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xlucky it's illegal everywhere! what is? smoking? i'll tell my local safeway... You can smoke in your local Safeway? You can enter it without wearing a mask? +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt would be good if we could go into social contracts. Considering that unvaccinated people are disproportionally taking up all the medical resources at the moment and depriving many others of medical care, besides making them get vaccinated maybe they could forgo running to the same doctors that told them to get vaccinated in the first place once they ultimately get sick.
Or maybe they could agree to seek the help of the medical experts like Craig Kelly or Clive Palmer instead of clogging our hospitals.
As long as people pay taxes, medicare levies and private health insurance then everyone is doing their bit. Besides the selfishness of this statement and the obvious flaws in it, like the burden these unvaccinated people are placing on resources and diverting attention, do you know the costs it takes to care for all these people in hospital. It can range into the hundreds of thousands for each patient. So as a community we will have to pay hundreds of millions more....but hey they pay their taxes, or does it get deducted from their centrelink first? Maybe we should all call an ambulance if we have a headache, waste their time...I mean like who cares, I pay my taxes so I own them. Where does one start... Smokers? Drinkers? Kids experimenting with "recreational drugs". Thrill seekers doing extreme sports? People engaging in contact sports? The Obese? Diabetics? Fuck them all. No pay no treatment. Where does one start - Smoking is taxed at close to 2 billion a year to put back into the system - you want to throw that into the pool? It is also illegal anywhere inside through the entire country, and most places outdoors too. It's against the law for minors, one of the most heavily regulated things to help the hospital system. You want the same restrictions on the unvaccinated? For the rest see previous posts that have addressed these. Weird you said thrill seekers as well though. These must be cut and paste from something. Of the $2B raised from taxing smokers, how much goes to covering the costs? Smoking costs Australia close to $137 billion That is up from $31.5 billion in 2004–05. Intangible costs of smoking – including lost quality of life from living with a serious illness – are estimated to be almost $118 billion per year.
The report, from the National Drug Research Institute (NDRI) at Curtin University, provides the first update on smoking costs in Australia in 15 years, while detailing that tangible and intangible costs associated with smoking now sit at $136.9 billion annually, up from an estimated $31.5 billion in 2004–05.
Current tangible costs of smoking include:
- $5 billion in lost productivity and worker absences
- $2 billion for family members caring for someone with a smoking-related disease
- $6.8 billion in healthcare costs, including the cost of 1.7 million hospital admissions to treat smoking-related conditions.
Intangible costs, on the other hand, include years of life lost from premature deaths or lost quality of life from living with a serious illness, and were estimated at almost $118 billion per year. https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/smoking-costs-australia-close-to-137-billion Pretty shit example. The only reason smoking isn't completely illegal is it would probably cost more to enforce it's prohibition than the current healthcare burden. Despite this countries are looking to phase it out, starting with New Zealand banning people14 and under from ever being able to purchase tobacco products. You can bet your bottom dollar we'll follow suit sooner or later. Whether illegal or not is completely irrelevant. Its not illegal to not get vaccinated either. Why should the government spend its health dollars on a smoker? Why should employers pay a smoker for days off work for smoking-related illness? Or the government pay pensions prematurely for those who move out of the workforce prematurely due to smoking-related illness? Ok another example: Sports injuries. Look up the costs of that. Oh and one in 10 football-related injuries are life-threatening.... From this I getting that the unvaccinated are comparable to smokers - since you guys are doing the comparing.
And you advocate for a socialist style of medical care. From this I take it you are an advocate for user-pays style of medical care?
If it came down to it I’m with you. I too support the socialist system you are passionate about.
Having said that I can’t see why the unvaxxed wouldn’t agree to it though. They’d have nothing to lose if they’re right.
Just to be clear Australia doesn't actually have a socialist health system. What Australia has is universal health care-where everyone has access to health care but people can choose to be treated in government clinics or private ones. There are no private clinics in socialist systems. What you're advocating for is for some people to not be treated in the government system because their choices don't align with your politics. Which contradicts your political belief that health care should be accessible by anyone. Not unexpected- hypocrisy is a corner-stone of the modern day Leftist. I’m not advocating for anything comrade. Just discussion points. You can't have it both ways-we either have universal health care or we don't. In *a nation which has universal health care*-which you clearly support-you are advocating for people who choose to not get vaccinated to pay for their health costs if they get sick, I said I don't see a problem for them to made that agreement. As I said, just posing questions. My own view on healthcare is much complicated. You appear to be a vocal supporter of government funded equal care for all. Which I must say is admirable. My local green's candidate was just campaigning on that the other day, however he has some other whacky views No i'm actually a supporter of not acting hypocritically. We either have universal health care, or not. Pick one. Really it's just semantics isn't it? 'Universal health care' which is paid for by everyone for everyone who wants to use it is a pretty 'socialist' construct. Let's be honest. Yeah he just doesn’t want to admit he’s been arguing for socialist ideals and desires a socialist construct utopia. "Comrade Enzo" has a nice ring to it.
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xlucky it's illegal everywhere! what is? smoking? i'll tell my local safeway... You can smoke in your local Safeway? You can enter it without wearing a mask? +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt would be good if we could go into social contracts. Considering that unvaccinated people are disproportionally taking up all the medical resources at the moment and depriving many others of medical care, besides making them get vaccinated maybe they could forgo running to the same doctors that told them to get vaccinated in the first place once they ultimately get sick.
Or maybe they could agree to seek the help of the medical experts like Craig Kelly or Clive Palmer instead of clogging our hospitals.
As long as people pay taxes, medicare levies and private health insurance then everyone is doing their bit. Besides the selfishness of this statement and the obvious flaws in it, like the burden these unvaccinated people are placing on resources and diverting attention, do you know the costs it takes to care for all these people in hospital. It can range into the hundreds of thousands for each patient. So as a community we will have to pay hundreds of millions more....but hey they pay their taxes, or does it get deducted from their centrelink first? Maybe we should all call an ambulance if we have a headache, waste their time...I mean like who cares, I pay my taxes so I own them. Where does one start... Smokers? Drinkers? Kids experimenting with "recreational drugs". Thrill seekers doing extreme sports? People engaging in contact sports? The Obese? Diabetics? Fuck them all. No pay no treatment. Where does one start - Smoking is taxed at close to 2 billion a year to put back into the system - you want to throw that into the pool? It is also illegal anywhere inside through the entire country, and most places outdoors too. It's against the law for minors, one of the most heavily regulated things to help the hospital system. You want the same restrictions on the unvaccinated? For the rest see previous posts that have addressed these. Weird you said thrill seekers as well though. These must be cut and paste from something. Of the $2B raised from taxing smokers, how much goes to covering the costs? Smoking costs Australia close to $137 billion That is up from $31.5 billion in 2004–05. Intangible costs of smoking – including lost quality of life from living with a serious illness – are estimated to be almost $118 billion per year.
The report, from the National Drug Research Institute (NDRI) at Curtin University, provides the first update on smoking costs in Australia in 15 years, while detailing that tangible and intangible costs associated with smoking now sit at $136.9 billion annually, up from an estimated $31.5 billion in 2004–05.
Current tangible costs of smoking include:
- $5 billion in lost productivity and worker absences
- $2 billion for family members caring for someone with a smoking-related disease
- $6.8 billion in healthcare costs, including the cost of 1.7 million hospital admissions to treat smoking-related conditions.
Intangible costs, on the other hand, include years of life lost from premature deaths or lost quality of life from living with a serious illness, and were estimated at almost $118 billion per year. https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/smoking-costs-australia-close-to-137-billion Pretty shit example. The only reason smoking isn't completely illegal is it would probably cost more to enforce it's prohibition than the current healthcare burden. Despite this countries are looking to phase it out, starting with New Zealand banning people14 and under from ever being able to purchase tobacco products. You can bet your bottom dollar we'll follow suit sooner or later. Whether illegal or not is completely irrelevant. Its not illegal to not get vaccinated either. Why should the government spend its health dollars on a smoker? Why should employers pay a smoker for days off work for smoking-related illness? Or the government pay pensions prematurely for those who move out of the workforce prematurely due to smoking-related illness? Ok another example: Sports injuries. Look up the costs of that. Oh and one in 10 football-related injuries are life-threatening.... From this I getting that the unvaccinated are comparable to smokers - since you guys are doing the comparing.
And you advocate for a socialist style of medical care. From this I take it you are an advocate for user-pays style of medical care?
If it came down to it I’m with you. I too support the socialist system you are passionate about.
Having said that I can’t see why the unvaxxed wouldn’t agree to it though. They’d have nothing to lose if they’re right.
Just to be clear Australia doesn't actually have a socialist health system. What Australia has is universal health care-where everyone has access to health care but people can choose to be treated in government clinics or private ones. There are no private clinics in socialist systems. What you're advocating for is for some people to not be treated in the government system because their choices don't align with your politics. Which contradicts your political belief that health care should be accessible by anyone. Not unexpected- hypocrisy is a corner-stone of the modern day Leftist. I’m not advocating for anything comrade. Just discussion points. You can't have it both ways-we either have universal health care or we don't. In *a nation which has universal health care*-which you clearly support-you are advocating for people who choose to not get vaccinated to pay for their health costs if they get sick, but not others who similarly choose to engage in behaviors that are detrimental to their health. One thing you are missing in all of this is that COVID vaccines have been provided to every single Australian for free, courtesy of the government. Hell, you currently have a choice between THREE different vaccine technologies if through your own research have decided that one form of the vaccine has associated risks. Irrelevant. The argument being made is if people make a choice that may result in injury or illness they should have to pay for their own health care. No problem with that-do the same for all the choices that people make that result in injury or illness. Only problem with that argument is that this automatically dismantles any hope of having ANY healthcare system at all..... Every single life choice you make can lead to ( if you believe those dead shit insurance actuaries) to a potential injury or death, just a matter of statistics really...... Personally I feel that if Medicare can cover foreigners on temporary visas, os students, chronically unemployed non tax payers etc etc then EVERYONE who has ever worked a day in their lives in this country deserves free healthcare equally regardless of political beliefs, sexual tendencies, religious or not or vaccination status.... I pity those not vaccinated by the stubborness of their own vain convictions ( and fear for the lives of some of them) but still believe that they are entitled to the best care the government of our country can give them....... Before you jump down my throat, think about it compassionately, you are probably all moralising the subject but what if someone you love or even yourselves (in another circumstance perhaps you may feel differently about another future issue) was in need of intubation and was non vaccinated, would you want them to just die in the street? Its not our health care systems fault that our government spending on health is appallingly, that instead of working on medical,staff training, , icu capacity in regional areas AND procuring necessary ventilators/equipment AS PROMISED.... they have f@cked around willy nilly playing the political hide the salami over border closures and who has the least lockdowns..... Do you not think there are people making decisions about covid response plans right this minute who are in fact echoing some of the bullshit on here... These same people are antivax" "scamdemic", Bill Gates will steal all of our money and all the world's footballers will be given heart failures so NFL can takeover as the new world order of sport devotees yet they are planning a response to something they neither fear nor respect......
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xlucky it's illegal everywhere! what is? smoking? i'll tell my local safeway... You can smoke in your local Safeway? You can enter it without wearing a mask? +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt would be good if we could go into social contracts. Considering that unvaccinated people are disproportionally taking up all the medical resources at the moment and depriving many others of medical care, besides making them get vaccinated maybe they could forgo running to the same doctors that told them to get vaccinated in the first place once they ultimately get sick.
Or maybe they could agree to seek the help of the medical experts like Craig Kelly or Clive Palmer instead of clogging our hospitals.
As long as people pay taxes, medicare levies and private health insurance then everyone is doing their bit. Besides the selfishness of this statement and the obvious flaws in it, like the burden these unvaccinated people are placing on resources and diverting attention, do you know the costs it takes to care for all these people in hospital. It can range into the hundreds of thousands for each patient. So as a community we will have to pay hundreds of millions more....but hey they pay their taxes, or does it get deducted from their centrelink first? Maybe we should all call an ambulance if we have a headache, waste their time...I mean like who cares, I pay my taxes so I own them. Where does one start... Smokers? Drinkers? Kids experimenting with "recreational drugs". Thrill seekers doing extreme sports? People engaging in contact sports? The Obese? Diabetics? Fuck them all. No pay no treatment. Where does one start - Smoking is taxed at close to 2 billion a year to put back into the system - you want to throw that into the pool? It is also illegal anywhere inside through the entire country, and most places outdoors too. It's against the law for minors, one of the most heavily regulated things to help the hospital system. You want the same restrictions on the unvaccinated? For the rest see previous posts that have addressed these. Weird you said thrill seekers as well though. These must be cut and paste from something. Of the $2B raised from taxing smokers, how much goes to covering the costs? Smoking costs Australia close to $137 billion That is up from $31.5 billion in 2004–05. Intangible costs of smoking – including lost quality of life from living with a serious illness – are estimated to be almost $118 billion per year.
The report, from the National Drug Research Institute (NDRI) at Curtin University, provides the first update on smoking costs in Australia in 15 years, while detailing that tangible and intangible costs associated with smoking now sit at $136.9 billion annually, up from an estimated $31.5 billion in 2004–05.
Current tangible costs of smoking include:
- $5 billion in lost productivity and worker absences
- $2 billion for family members caring for someone with a smoking-related disease
- $6.8 billion in healthcare costs, including the cost of 1.7 million hospital admissions to treat smoking-related conditions.
Intangible costs, on the other hand, include years of life lost from premature deaths or lost quality of life from living with a serious illness, and were estimated at almost $118 billion per year. https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/smoking-costs-australia-close-to-137-billion Pretty shit example. The only reason smoking isn't completely illegal is it would probably cost more to enforce it's prohibition than the current healthcare burden. Despite this countries are looking to phase it out, starting with New Zealand banning people14 and under from ever being able to purchase tobacco products. You can bet your bottom dollar we'll follow suit sooner or later. Whether illegal or not is completely irrelevant. Its not illegal to not get vaccinated either. Why should the government spend its health dollars on a smoker? Why should employers pay a smoker for days off work for smoking-related illness? Or the government pay pensions prematurely for those who move out of the workforce prematurely due to smoking-related illness? Ok another example: Sports injuries. Look up the costs of that. Oh and one in 10 football-related injuries are life-threatening.... From this I getting that the unvaccinated are comparable to smokers - since you guys are doing the comparing.
And you advocate for a socialist style of medical care. From this I take it you are an advocate for user-pays style of medical care?
If it came down to it I’m with you. I too support the socialist system you are passionate about.
Having said that I can’t see why the unvaxxed wouldn’t agree to it though. They’d have nothing to lose if they’re right.
Just to be clear Australia doesn't actually have a socialist health system. What Australia has is universal health care-where everyone has access to health care but people can choose to be treated in government clinics or private ones. There are no private clinics in socialist systems. What you're advocating for is for some people to not be treated in the government system because their choices don't align with your politics. Which contradicts your political belief that health care should be accessible by anyone. Not unexpected- hypocrisy is a corner-stone of the modern day Leftist. I’m not advocating for anything comrade. Just discussion points. You can't have it both ways-we either have universal health care or we don't. In *a nation which has universal health care*-which you clearly support-you are advocating for people who choose to not get vaccinated to pay for their health costs if they get sick, I said I don't see a problem for them to made that agreement. As I said, just posing questions. My own view on healthcare is much complicated. You appear to be a vocal supporter of government funded equal care for all. Which I must say is admirable. My local green's candidate was just campaigning on that the other day, however he has some other whacky views No i'm actually a supporter of not acting hypocritically. We either have universal health care, or not. Pick one. Not really. The term "universal health care" is a blanket term that refers to all sorts of different systems with different levels of cover. Australia for example has highly limited dental care despite adverse long term issues that poor dental health can create for people over time. We are talking about Australia's health system aka Medicare. Australia’s health system is one of the best in the world, providing safe and affordable health care for all Australians There are many providers of health care in Australia, including: - primary care services delivered by general practitioners (GPs)
- medical specialists
- allied health workers
- nurses.
Medicare and the public hospital system provide free or low-cost access for all Australians to most of these health care services. Private health insurance gives you choice outside the public system. For private health care both in and out of hospital, you contribute towards the cost of your health care.
https://www.health.gov.au/about-us/the-australian-health-system
Note the words "All Australians". That would be why we call it "universal".
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xlucky it's illegal everywhere! what is? smoking? i'll tell my local safeway... You can smoke in your local Safeway? You can enter it without wearing a mask? +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt would be good if we could go into social contracts. Considering that unvaccinated people are disproportionally taking up all the medical resources at the moment and depriving many others of medical care, besides making them get vaccinated maybe they could forgo running to the same doctors that told them to get vaccinated in the first place once they ultimately get sick.
Or maybe they could agree to seek the help of the medical experts like Craig Kelly or Clive Palmer instead of clogging our hospitals.
As long as people pay taxes, medicare levies and private health insurance then everyone is doing their bit. Besides the selfishness of this statement and the obvious flaws in it, like the burden these unvaccinated people are placing on resources and diverting attention, do you know the costs it takes to care for all these people in hospital. It can range into the hundreds of thousands for each patient. So as a community we will have to pay hundreds of millions more....but hey they pay their taxes, or does it get deducted from their centrelink first? Maybe we should all call an ambulance if we have a headache, waste their time...I mean like who cares, I pay my taxes so I own them. Where does one start... Smokers? Drinkers? Kids experimenting with "recreational drugs". Thrill seekers doing extreme sports? People engaging in contact sports? The Obese? Diabetics? Fuck them all. No pay no treatment. Where does one start - Smoking is taxed at close to 2 billion a year to put back into the system - you want to throw that into the pool? It is also illegal anywhere inside through the entire country, and most places outdoors too. It's against the law for minors, one of the most heavily regulated things to help the hospital system. You want the same restrictions on the unvaccinated? For the rest see previous posts that have addressed these. Weird you said thrill seekers as well though. These must be cut and paste from something. Of the $2B raised from taxing smokers, how much goes to covering the costs? Smoking costs Australia close to $137 billion That is up from $31.5 billion in 2004–05. Intangible costs of smoking – including lost quality of life from living with a serious illness – are estimated to be almost $118 billion per year.
The report, from the National Drug Research Institute (NDRI) at Curtin University, provides the first update on smoking costs in Australia in 15 years, while detailing that tangible and intangible costs associated with smoking now sit at $136.9 billion annually, up from an estimated $31.5 billion in 2004–05.
Current tangible costs of smoking include:
- $5 billion in lost productivity and worker absences
- $2 billion for family members caring for someone with a smoking-related disease
- $6.8 billion in healthcare costs, including the cost of 1.7 million hospital admissions to treat smoking-related conditions.
Intangible costs, on the other hand, include years of life lost from premature deaths or lost quality of life from living with a serious illness, and were estimated at almost $118 billion per year. https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/smoking-costs-australia-close-to-137-billion Pretty shit example. The only reason smoking isn't completely illegal is it would probably cost more to enforce it's prohibition than the current healthcare burden. Despite this countries are looking to phase it out, starting with New Zealand banning people14 and under from ever being able to purchase tobacco products. You can bet your bottom dollar we'll follow suit sooner or later. Whether illegal or not is completely irrelevant. Its not illegal to not get vaccinated either. Why should the government spend its health dollars on a smoker? Why should employers pay a smoker for days off work for smoking-related illness? Or the government pay pensions prematurely for those who move out of the workforce prematurely due to smoking-related illness? Ok another example: Sports injuries. Look up the costs of that. Oh and one in 10 football-related injuries are life-threatening.... From this I getting that the unvaccinated are comparable to smokers - since you guys are doing the comparing.
And you advocate for a socialist style of medical care. From this I take it you are an advocate for user-pays style of medical care?
If it came down to it I’m with you. I too support the socialist system you are passionate about.
Having said that I can’t see why the unvaxxed wouldn’t agree to it though. They’d have nothing to lose if they’re right.
Just to be clear Australia doesn't actually have a socialist health system. What Australia has is universal health care-where everyone has access to health care but people can choose to be treated in government clinics or private ones. There are no private clinics in socialist systems. What you're advocating for is for some people to not be treated in the government system because their choices don't align with your politics. Which contradicts your political belief that health care should be accessible by anyone. Not unexpected- hypocrisy is a corner-stone of the modern day Leftist. I’m not advocating for anything comrade. Just discussion points. You can't have it both ways-we either have universal health care or we don't. In *a nation which has universal health care*-which you clearly support-you are advocating for people who choose to not get vaccinated to pay for their health costs if they get sick, but not others who similarly choose to engage in behaviors that are detrimental to their health. One thing you are missing in all of this is that COVID vaccines have been provided to every single Australian for free, courtesy of the government. Hell, you currently have a choice between THREE different vaccine technologies if through your own research have decided that one form of the vaccine has associated risks. Irrelevant. The argument being made is if people make a choice that may result in injury or illness they should have to pay for their own health care. No problem with that-do the same for all the choices that people make that result in injury or illness. How is it irrelevant? We are specifically talking about a "universal health care" system that currently provides free preventative measures to all citizens. There are many preventative measures people could take for free for many conditions. Yet some don't and when they get sick, they get treated anyway. Its irrelevant if that the prevention was free.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xlucky it's illegal everywhere! what is? smoking? i'll tell my local safeway... You can smoke in your local Safeway? You can enter it without wearing a mask? +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt would be good if we could go into social contracts. Considering that unvaccinated people are disproportionally taking up all the medical resources at the moment and depriving many others of medical care, besides making them get vaccinated maybe they could forgo running to the same doctors that told them to get vaccinated in the first place once they ultimately get sick.
Or maybe they could agree to seek the help of the medical experts like Craig Kelly or Clive Palmer instead of clogging our hospitals.
As long as people pay taxes, medicare levies and private health insurance then everyone is doing their bit. Besides the selfishness of this statement and the obvious flaws in it, like the burden these unvaccinated people are placing on resources and diverting attention, do you know the costs it takes to care for all these people in hospital. It can range into the hundreds of thousands for each patient. So as a community we will have to pay hundreds of millions more....but hey they pay their taxes, or does it get deducted from their centrelink first? Maybe we should all call an ambulance if we have a headache, waste their time...I mean like who cares, I pay my taxes so I own them. Where does one start... Smokers? Drinkers? Kids experimenting with "recreational drugs". Thrill seekers doing extreme sports? People engaging in contact sports? The Obese? Diabetics? Fuck them all. No pay no treatment. Where does one start - Smoking is taxed at close to 2 billion a year to put back into the system - you want to throw that into the pool? It is also illegal anywhere inside through the entire country, and most places outdoors too. It's against the law for minors, one of the most heavily regulated things to help the hospital system. You want the same restrictions on the unvaccinated? For the rest see previous posts that have addressed these. Weird you said thrill seekers as well though. These must be cut and paste from something. Of the $2B raised from taxing smokers, how much goes to covering the costs? Smoking costs Australia close to $137 billion That is up from $31.5 billion in 2004–05. Intangible costs of smoking – including lost quality of life from living with a serious illness – are estimated to be almost $118 billion per year.
The report, from the National Drug Research Institute (NDRI) at Curtin University, provides the first update on smoking costs in Australia in 15 years, while detailing that tangible and intangible costs associated with smoking now sit at $136.9 billion annually, up from an estimated $31.5 billion in 2004–05.
Current tangible costs of smoking include:
- $5 billion in lost productivity and worker absences
- $2 billion for family members caring for someone with a smoking-related disease
- $6.8 billion in healthcare costs, including the cost of 1.7 million hospital admissions to treat smoking-related conditions.
Intangible costs, on the other hand, include years of life lost from premature deaths or lost quality of life from living with a serious illness, and were estimated at almost $118 billion per year. https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/smoking-costs-australia-close-to-137-billion Pretty shit example. The only reason smoking isn't completely illegal is it would probably cost more to enforce it's prohibition than the current healthcare burden. Despite this countries are looking to phase it out, starting with New Zealand banning people14 and under from ever being able to purchase tobacco products. You can bet your bottom dollar we'll follow suit sooner or later. Whether illegal or not is completely irrelevant. Its not illegal to not get vaccinated either. Why should the government spend its health dollars on a smoker? Why should employers pay a smoker for days off work for smoking-related illness? Or the government pay pensions prematurely for those who move out of the workforce prematurely due to smoking-related illness? Ok another example: Sports injuries. Look up the costs of that. Oh and one in 10 football-related injuries are life-threatening.... From this I getting that the unvaccinated are comparable to smokers - since you guys are doing the comparing.
And you advocate for a socialist style of medical care. From this I take it you are an advocate for user-pays style of medical care?
If it came down to it I’m with you. I too support the socialist system you are passionate about.
Having said that I can’t see why the unvaxxed wouldn’t agree to it though. They’d have nothing to lose if they’re right.
Just to be clear Australia doesn't actually have a socialist health system. What Australia has is universal health care-where everyone has access to health care but people can choose to be treated in government clinics or private ones. There are no private clinics in socialist systems. What you're advocating for is for some people to not be treated in the government system because their choices don't align with your politics. Which contradicts your political belief that health care should be accessible by anyone. Not unexpected- hypocrisy is a corner-stone of the modern day Leftist. I’m not advocating for anything comrade. Just discussion points. You can't have it both ways-we either have universal health care or we don't. In *a nation which has universal health care*-which you clearly support-you are advocating for people who choose to not get vaccinated to pay for their health costs if they get sick, I said I don't see a problem for them to made that agreement. As I said, just posing questions. My own view on healthcare is much complicated. You appear to be a vocal supporter of government funded equal care for all. Which I must say is admirable. My local green's candidate was just campaigning on that the other day, however he has some other whacky views No i'm actually a supporter of not acting hypocritically. We either have universal health care, or not. Pick one. Really it's just semantics isn't it? 'Universal health care' which is paid for by everyone for everyone who wants to use it is a pretty 'socialist' construct. Let's be honest. Well your statement is actually incorrect. Note everyone who receives healthcare in Australia pays for their healthcare, (neither directly nor indirecty). In fact millions of Australians with incomes don't pay for their health care. Many of those have made terrible health choices. Yet we still treat them. As for it being "socialist" or not that's beside the point. Australia's health system is founded on being universal-that is, available to all Australians As long as that is true, then you can't simultaneously argue that it should exclude those who we deem as unworthy of it.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xlucky it's illegal everywhere! what is? smoking? i'll tell my local safeway... You can smoke in your local Safeway? You can enter it without wearing a mask? +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt would be good if we could go into social contracts. Considering that unvaccinated people are disproportionally taking up all the medical resources at the moment and depriving many others of medical care, besides making them get vaccinated maybe they could forgo running to the same doctors that told them to get vaccinated in the first place once they ultimately get sick.
Or maybe they could agree to seek the help of the medical experts like Craig Kelly or Clive Palmer instead of clogging our hospitals.
As long as people pay taxes, medicare levies and private health insurance then everyone is doing their bit. Besides the selfishness of this statement and the obvious flaws in it, like the burden these unvaccinated people are placing on resources and diverting attention, do you know the costs it takes to care for all these people in hospital. It can range into the hundreds of thousands for each patient. So as a community we will have to pay hundreds of millions more....but hey they pay their taxes, or does it get deducted from their centrelink first? Maybe we should all call an ambulance if we have a headache, waste their time...I mean like who cares, I pay my taxes so I own them. Where does one start... Smokers? Drinkers? Kids experimenting with "recreational drugs". Thrill seekers doing extreme sports? People engaging in contact sports? The Obese? Diabetics? Fuck them all. No pay no treatment. Where does one start - Smoking is taxed at close to 2 billion a year to put back into the system - you want to throw that into the pool? It is also illegal anywhere inside through the entire country, and most places outdoors too. It's against the law for minors, one of the most heavily regulated things to help the hospital system. You want the same restrictions on the unvaccinated? For the rest see previous posts that have addressed these. Weird you said thrill seekers as well though. These must be cut and paste from something. Of the $2B raised from taxing smokers, how much goes to covering the costs? Smoking costs Australia close to $137 billion That is up from $31.5 billion in 2004–05. Intangible costs of smoking – including lost quality of life from living with a serious illness – are estimated to be almost $118 billion per year.
The report, from the National Drug Research Institute (NDRI) at Curtin University, provides the first update on smoking costs in Australia in 15 years, while detailing that tangible and intangible costs associated with smoking now sit at $136.9 billion annually, up from an estimated $31.5 billion in 2004–05.
Current tangible costs of smoking include:
- $5 billion in lost productivity and worker absences
- $2 billion for family members caring for someone with a smoking-related disease
- $6.8 billion in healthcare costs, including the cost of 1.7 million hospital admissions to treat smoking-related conditions.
Intangible costs, on the other hand, include years of life lost from premature deaths or lost quality of life from living with a serious illness, and were estimated at almost $118 billion per year. https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/smoking-costs-australia-close-to-137-billion Pretty shit example. The only reason smoking isn't completely illegal is it would probably cost more to enforce it's prohibition than the current healthcare burden. Despite this countries are looking to phase it out, starting with New Zealand banning people14 and under from ever being able to purchase tobacco products. You can bet your bottom dollar we'll follow suit sooner or later. Whether illegal or not is completely irrelevant. Its not illegal to not get vaccinated either. Why should the government spend its health dollars on a smoker? Why should employers pay a smoker for days off work for smoking-related illness? Or the government pay pensions prematurely for those who move out of the workforce prematurely due to smoking-related illness? Ok another example: Sports injuries. Look up the costs of that. Oh and one in 10 football-related injuries are life-threatening.... From this I getting that the unvaccinated are comparable to smokers - since you guys are doing the comparing.
And you advocate for a socialist style of medical care. From this I take it you are an advocate for user-pays style of medical care?
If it came down to it I’m with you. I too support the socialist system you are passionate about.
Having said that I can’t see why the unvaxxed wouldn’t agree to it though. They’d have nothing to lose if they’re right.
Just to be clear Australia doesn't actually have a socialist health system. What Australia has is universal health care-where everyone has access to health care but people can choose to be treated in government clinics or private ones. There are no private clinics in socialist systems. What you're advocating for is for some people to not be treated in the government system because their choices don't align with your politics. Which contradicts your political belief that health care should be accessible by anyone. Not unexpected- hypocrisy is a corner-stone of the modern day Leftist. I’m not advocating for anything comrade. Just discussion points. You can't have it both ways-we either have universal health care or we don't. In *a nation which has universal health care*-which you clearly support-you are advocating for people who choose to not get vaccinated to pay for their health costs if they get sick, but not others who similarly choose to engage in behaviors that are detrimental to their health. One thing you are missing in all of this is that COVID vaccines have been provided to every single Australian for free, courtesy of the government. Hell, you currently have a choice between THREE different vaccine technologies if through your own research have decided that one form of the vaccine has associated risks. Irrelevant. The argument being made is if people make a choice that may result in injury or illness they should have to pay for their own health care. No problem with that-do the same for all the choices that people make that result in injury or illness. Only problem with that argument is that this automatically dismantles any hope of having ANY healthcare system at all..... Every single life choice you make can lead to ( if you believe those dead shit insurance actuaries) to a potential injury or death, just a matter of statistics really...... Personally I feel that if Medicare can cover foreigners on temporary visas, os students, chronically unemployed non tax payers etc etc then EVERYONE who has ever worked a day in their lives in this country deserves free healthcare equally regardless of political beliefs, sexual tendencies, religious or not or vaccination status.... I pity those not vaccinated by the stubborness of their own vain convictions ( and fear for the lives of some of them) but still believe that they are entitled to the best care the government of our country can give them....... Before you jump down my throat, think about it compassionately, you are probably all moralising the subject but what if someone you love or even yourselves (in another circumstance perhaps you may feel differently about another future issue) was in need of intubation and was non vaccinated, would you want them to just die in the street? Its not our health care systems fault that our government spending on health is appallingly, that instead of working on medical,staff training, , icu capacity in regional areas AND procuring necessary ventilators/equipment AS PROMISED.... they have f@cked around willy nilly playing the political hide the salami over border closures and who has the least lockdowns..... Do you not think there are people making decisions about covid response plans right this minute who are in fact echoing some of the bullshit on here... These same people are antivax" "scamdemic", Bill Gates will steal all of our money and all the world's footballers will be given heart failures so NFL can takeover as the new world order of sport devotees yet they are planning a response to something they neither fear nor respect...... The point I'm trying to make is that its a slippery slope. Once you exclude one group in a so-called universal health system, its no longer universal, so why not exclude others ? Another example: More young healthy males will die/seriously injured riding motor-bikes this year than unvaccinated young fit males will die/become seriously ill from covid. They don't have to ride bikes-its a choice. An unwise one. Why do we treat them for the unwise choice they made? As far as your last point, you're talking about fringe nut job stereotypes. There are non-vaccinated people who have assessed their own risk profile-which has been made more difficult than it should be- and decided not to get vaccinated. The decisions are not unreasonable, it may be unwise, but so is riding a motorbike.
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xlucky it's illegal everywhere! what is? smoking? i'll tell my local safeway... You can smoke in your local Safeway? You can enter it without wearing a mask? +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt would be good if we could go into social contracts. Considering that unvaccinated people are disproportionally taking up all the medical resources at the moment and depriving many others of medical care, besides making them get vaccinated maybe they could forgo running to the same doctors that told them to get vaccinated in the first place once they ultimately get sick.
Or maybe they could agree to seek the help of the medical experts like Craig Kelly or Clive Palmer instead of clogging our hospitals.
As long as people pay taxes, medicare levies and private health insurance then everyone is doing their bit. Besides the selfishness of this statement and the obvious flaws in it, like the burden these unvaccinated people are placing on resources and diverting attention, do you know the costs it takes to care for all these people in hospital. It can range into the hundreds of thousands for each patient. So as a community we will have to pay hundreds of millions more....but hey they pay their taxes, or does it get deducted from their centrelink first? Maybe we should all call an ambulance if we have a headache, waste their time...I mean like who cares, I pay my taxes so I own them. Where does one start... Smokers? Drinkers? Kids experimenting with "recreational drugs". Thrill seekers doing extreme sports? People engaging in contact sports? The Obese? Diabetics? Fuck them all. No pay no treatment. Where does one start - Smoking is taxed at close to 2 billion a year to put back into the system - you want to throw that into the pool? It is also illegal anywhere inside through the entire country, and most places outdoors too. It's against the law for minors, one of the most heavily regulated things to help the hospital system. You want the same restrictions on the unvaccinated? For the rest see previous posts that have addressed these. Weird you said thrill seekers as well though. These must be cut and paste from something. Of the $2B raised from taxing smokers, how much goes to covering the costs? Smoking costs Australia close to $137 billion That is up from $31.5 billion in 2004–05. Intangible costs of smoking – including lost quality of life from living with a serious illness – are estimated to be almost $118 billion per year.
The report, from the National Drug Research Institute (NDRI) at Curtin University, provides the first update on smoking costs in Australia in 15 years, while detailing that tangible and intangible costs associated with smoking now sit at $136.9 billion annually, up from an estimated $31.5 billion in 2004–05.
Current tangible costs of smoking include:
- $5 billion in lost productivity and worker absences
- $2 billion for family members caring for someone with a smoking-related disease
- $6.8 billion in healthcare costs, including the cost of 1.7 million hospital admissions to treat smoking-related conditions.
Intangible costs, on the other hand, include years of life lost from premature deaths or lost quality of life from living with a serious illness, and were estimated at almost $118 billion per year. https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/smoking-costs-australia-close-to-137-billion Pretty shit example. The only reason smoking isn't completely illegal is it would probably cost more to enforce it's prohibition than the current healthcare burden. Despite this countries are looking to phase it out, starting with New Zealand banning people14 and under from ever being able to purchase tobacco products. You can bet your bottom dollar we'll follow suit sooner or later. Whether illegal or not is completely irrelevant. Its not illegal to not get vaccinated either. Why should the government spend its health dollars on a smoker? Why should employers pay a smoker for days off work for smoking-related illness? Or the government pay pensions prematurely for those who move out of the workforce prematurely due to smoking-related illness? Ok another example: Sports injuries. Look up the costs of that. Oh and one in 10 football-related injuries are life-threatening.... From this I getting that the unvaccinated are comparable to smokers - since you guys are doing the comparing.
And you advocate for a socialist style of medical care. From this I take it you are an advocate for user-pays style of medical care?
If it came down to it I’m with you. I too support the socialist system you are passionate about.
Having said that I can’t see why the unvaxxed wouldn’t agree to it though. They’d have nothing to lose if they’re right.
Just to be clear Australia doesn't actually have a socialist health system. What Australia has is universal health care-where everyone has access to health care but people can choose to be treated in government clinics or private ones. There are no private clinics in socialist systems. What you're advocating for is for some people to not be treated in the government system because their choices don't align with your politics. Which contradicts your political belief that health care should be accessible by anyone. Not unexpected- hypocrisy is a corner-stone of the modern day Leftist. I’m not advocating for anything comrade. Just discussion points. You can't have it both ways-we either have universal health care or we don't. In *a nation which has universal health care*-which you clearly support-you are advocating for people who choose to not get vaccinated to pay for their health costs if they get sick, I said I don't see a problem for them to made that agreement. As I said, just posing questions. My own view on healthcare is much complicated. You appear to be a vocal supporter of government funded equal care for all. Which I must say is admirable. My local green's candidate was just campaigning on that the other day, however he has some other whacky views No i'm actually a supporter of not acting hypocritically. We either have universal health care, or not. Pick one. Really it's just semantics isn't it? 'Universal health care' which is paid for by everyone for everyone who wants to use it is a pretty 'socialist' construct. Let's be honest. As long as that is true, then you can't simultaneously argue that it should exclude those who we deem as unworthy of it. I didn't.
Member since 2008.
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Muz
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tsf
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these people behave like anti-abortionists.
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tsf
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The sooner everyone comes to the reality that we're up shit creek for a long time the better. My missus has covid again atm - twice in three months. With new variants taking shape this will be more common place. We were warned at the start that mutations would occur from the scientists and experts but until you're in the thick of it it's hard to visualise - especially two years ago when deep down most of us probably thought it would not be this hard for this long.
Serious questions will need to be asked about proping up certain businesses. You're throwing money into a pit.
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