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sydneyfc1987
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+xthese people behave like anti-abortionists. A lot of them probably are anti-abortionists given how many evangelical christian types are anti-vax. "My body, my choice, unless we are talking about abortion or assisted dying, then its your body, my choice".
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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tsf
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+x+xthese people behave like anti-abortionists. "My body, my choice, unless we are talking about abortion or assisted dying, then its your body, my choice".
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bluebird2
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+xThe sooner everyone comes to the reality that we're up shit creek for a long time the better. My missus has covid again atm - twice in three months. With new variants taking shape this will be more common place. We were warned at the start that mutations would occur from the scientists and experts but until you're in the thick of it it's hard to visualise - especially two years ago when deep down most of us probably thought it would not be this hard for this long. Serious questions will need to be asked about proping up certain businesses. You're throwing money into a pit. Thats fine we can just tighten face mask laws and add a few minutes to when essential workers can leave their house Australia had very poor pandemic planning which is why there was a massive retreat after 3 weeks. They were working on the assumption that vaccinated people wouldn't catch or spread it (and are still pushing that line today) England have the right idea. Its time for these rubbish, placebo, B grade restrictions to stop. They dont do a fucking thing. The fact that it is illegal for anybody in Australia to get or give an education without wearing a mask is nothing short of a joke Testing, tracing and isolation needs to stop. Same as the rubbish restrictions. The only thing left in place should be whatever shoreline management we have, and regulations for health and aged care. Watching people running around in fits of panic creating their own problems is getting old
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Muz
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xlucky it's illegal everywhere! what is? smoking? i'll tell my local safeway... You can smoke in your local Safeway? You can enter it without wearing a mask? +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt would be good if we could go into social contracts. Considering that unvaccinated people are disproportionally taking up all the medical resources at the moment and depriving many others of medical care, besides making them get vaccinated maybe they could forgo running to the same doctors that told them to get vaccinated in the first place once they ultimately get sick.
Or maybe they could agree to seek the help of the medical experts like Craig Kelly or Clive Palmer instead of clogging our hospitals.
As long as people pay taxes, medicare levies and private health insurance then everyone is doing their bit. Besides the selfishness of this statement and the obvious flaws in it, like the burden these unvaccinated people are placing on resources and diverting attention, do you know the costs it takes to care for all these people in hospital. It can range into the hundreds of thousands for each patient. So as a community we will have to pay hundreds of millions more....but hey they pay their taxes, or does it get deducted from their centrelink first? Maybe we should all call an ambulance if we have a headache, waste their time...I mean like who cares, I pay my taxes so I own them. Where does one start... Smokers? Drinkers? Kids experimenting with "recreational drugs". Thrill seekers doing extreme sports? People engaging in contact sports? The Obese? Diabetics? Fuck them all. No pay no treatment. Where does one start - Smoking is taxed at close to 2 billion a year to put back into the system - you want to throw that into the pool? It is also illegal anywhere inside through the entire country, and most places outdoors too. It's against the law for minors, one of the most heavily regulated things to help the hospital system. You want the same restrictions on the unvaccinated? For the rest see previous posts that have addressed these. Weird you said thrill seekers as well though. These must be cut and paste from something. Of the $2B raised from taxing smokers, how much goes to covering the costs? Smoking costs Australia close to $137 billion That is up from $31.5 billion in 2004–05. Intangible costs of smoking – including lost quality of life from living with a serious illness – are estimated to be almost $118 billion per year.
The report, from the National Drug Research Institute (NDRI) at Curtin University, provides the first update on smoking costs in Australia in 15 years, while detailing that tangible and intangible costs associated with smoking now sit at $136.9 billion annually, up from an estimated $31.5 billion in 2004–05.
Current tangible costs of smoking include:
- $5 billion in lost productivity and worker absences
- $2 billion for family members caring for someone with a smoking-related disease
- $6.8 billion in healthcare costs, including the cost of 1.7 million hospital admissions to treat smoking-related conditions.
Intangible costs, on the other hand, include years of life lost from premature deaths or lost quality of life from living with a serious illness, and were estimated at almost $118 billion per year. https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/smoking-costs-australia-close-to-137-billion Pretty shit example. The only reason smoking isn't completely illegal is it would probably cost more to enforce it's prohibition than the current healthcare burden. Despite this countries are looking to phase it out, starting with New Zealand banning people14 and under from ever being able to purchase tobacco products. You can bet your bottom dollar we'll follow suit sooner or later. Whether illegal or not is completely irrelevant. Its not illegal to not get vaccinated either. Why should the government spend its health dollars on a smoker? Why should employers pay a smoker for days off work for smoking-related illness? Or the government pay pensions prematurely for those who move out of the workforce prematurely due to smoking-related illness? Ok another example: Sports injuries. Look up the costs of that. Oh and one in 10 football-related injuries are life-threatening.... From this I getting that the unvaccinated are comparable to smokers - since you guys are doing the comparing.
And you advocate for a socialist style of medical care. From this I take it you are an advocate for user-pays style of medical care?
If it came down to it I’m with you. I too support the socialist system you are passionate about.
Having said that I can’t see why the unvaxxed wouldn’t agree to it though. They’d have nothing to lose if they’re right.
Just to be clear Australia doesn't actually have a socialist health system. What Australia has is universal health care-where everyone has access to health care but people can choose to be treated in government clinics or private ones. There are no private clinics in socialist systems. What you're advocating for is for some people to not be treated in the government system because their choices don't align with your politics. Which contradicts your political belief that health care should be accessible by anyone. Not unexpected- hypocrisy is a corner-stone of the modern day Leftist. I’m not advocating for anything comrade. Just discussion points. You can't have it both ways-we either have universal health care or we don't. In *a nation which has universal health care*-which you clearly support-you are advocating for people who choose to not get vaccinated to pay for their health costs if they get sick, I said I don't see a problem for them to made that agreement. As I said, just posing questions. My own view on healthcare is much complicated. You appear to be a vocal supporter of government funded equal care for all. Which I must say is admirable. My local green's candidate was just campaigning on that the other day, however he has some other whacky views No i'm actually a supporter of not acting hypocritically. We either have universal health care, or not. Pick one. Really it's just semantics isn't it? 'Universal health care' which is paid for by everyone for everyone who wants to use it is a pretty 'socialist' construct. Let's be honest. Well your statement is actually incorrect. Note everyone who receives healthcare in Australia pays for their healthcare, (neither directly nor indirecty). In fact millions of Australians with incomes don't pay for their health care. Many of those have made terrible health choices. Yet we still treat them. As for it being "socialist" or not that's beside the point. Australia's health system is founded on being universal-that is, available to all Australians As long as that is true, then you can't simultaneously argue that it should exclude those who we deem as unworthy of it. Poor people don't pay GST Enzo?
Member since 2008.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xlucky it's illegal everywhere! what is? smoking? i'll tell my local safeway... You can smoke in your local Safeway? You can enter it without wearing a mask? +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xIt would be good if we could go into social contracts. Considering that unvaccinated people are disproportionally taking up all the medical resources at the moment and depriving many others of medical care, besides making them get vaccinated maybe they could forgo running to the same doctors that told them to get vaccinated in the first place once they ultimately get sick.
Or maybe they could agree to seek the help of the medical experts like Craig Kelly or Clive Palmer instead of clogging our hospitals.
As long as people pay taxes, medicare levies and private health insurance then everyone is doing their bit. Besides the selfishness of this statement and the obvious flaws in it, like the burden these unvaccinated people are placing on resources and diverting attention, do you know the costs it takes to care for all these people in hospital. It can range into the hundreds of thousands for each patient. So as a community we will have to pay hundreds of millions more....but hey they pay their taxes, or does it get deducted from their centrelink first? Maybe we should all call an ambulance if we have a headache, waste their time...I mean like who cares, I pay my taxes so I own them. Where does one start... Smokers? Drinkers? Kids experimenting with "recreational drugs". Thrill seekers doing extreme sports? People engaging in contact sports? The Obese? Diabetics? Fuck them all. No pay no treatment. Where does one start - Smoking is taxed at close to 2 billion a year to put back into the system - you want to throw that into the pool? It is also illegal anywhere inside through the entire country, and most places outdoors too. It's against the law for minors, one of the most heavily regulated things to help the hospital system. You want the same restrictions on the unvaccinated? For the rest see previous posts that have addressed these. Weird you said thrill seekers as well though. These must be cut and paste from something. Of the $2B raised from taxing smokers, how much goes to covering the costs? Smoking costs Australia close to $137 billion That is up from $31.5 billion in 2004–05. Intangible costs of smoking – including lost quality of life from living with a serious illness – are estimated to be almost $118 billion per year.
The report, from the National Drug Research Institute (NDRI) at Curtin University, provides the first update on smoking costs in Australia in 15 years, while detailing that tangible and intangible costs associated with smoking now sit at $136.9 billion annually, up from an estimated $31.5 billion in 2004–05.
Current tangible costs of smoking include:
- $5 billion in lost productivity and worker absences
- $2 billion for family members caring for someone with a smoking-related disease
- $6.8 billion in healthcare costs, including the cost of 1.7 million hospital admissions to treat smoking-related conditions.
Intangible costs, on the other hand, include years of life lost from premature deaths or lost quality of life from living with a serious illness, and were estimated at almost $118 billion per year. https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/professional/smoking-costs-australia-close-to-137-billion Pretty shit example. The only reason smoking isn't completely illegal is it would probably cost more to enforce it's prohibition than the current healthcare burden. Despite this countries are looking to phase it out, starting with New Zealand banning people14 and under from ever being able to purchase tobacco products. You can bet your bottom dollar we'll follow suit sooner or later. Whether illegal or not is completely irrelevant. Its not illegal to not get vaccinated either. Why should the government spend its health dollars on a smoker? Why should employers pay a smoker for days off work for smoking-related illness? Or the government pay pensions prematurely for those who move out of the workforce prematurely due to smoking-related illness? Ok another example: Sports injuries. Look up the costs of that. Oh and one in 10 football-related injuries are life-threatening.... From this I getting that the unvaccinated are comparable to smokers - since you guys are doing the comparing.
And you advocate for a socialist style of medical care. From this I take it you are an advocate for user-pays style of medical care?
If it came down to it I’m with you. I too support the socialist system you are passionate about.
Having said that I can’t see why the unvaxxed wouldn’t agree to it though. They’d have nothing to lose if they’re right.
Just to be clear Australia doesn't actually have a socialist health system. What Australia has is universal health care-where everyone has access to health care but people can choose to be treated in government clinics or private ones. There are no private clinics in socialist systems. What you're advocating for is for some people to not be treated in the government system because their choices don't align with your politics. Which contradicts your political belief that health care should be accessible by anyone. Not unexpected- hypocrisy is a corner-stone of the modern day Leftist. I’m not advocating for anything comrade. Just discussion points. You can't have it both ways-we either have universal health care or we don't. In *a nation which has universal health care*-which you clearly support-you are advocating for people who choose to not get vaccinated to pay for their health costs if they get sick, but not others who similarly choose to engage in behaviors that are detrimental to their health. One thing you are missing in all of this is that COVID vaccines have been provided to every single Australian for free, courtesy of the government. Hell, you currently have a choice between THREE different vaccine technologies if through your own research have decided that one form of the vaccine has associated risks. Irrelevant. The argument being made is if people make a choice that may result in injury or illness they should have to pay for their own health care. No problem with that-do the same for all the choices that people make that result in injury or illness. Only problem with that argument is that this automatically dismantles any hope of having ANY healthcare system at all..... Every single life choice you make can lead to ( if you believe those dead shit insurance actuaries) to a potential injury or death, just a matter of statistics really...... Personally I feel that if Medicare can cover foreigners on temporary visas, os students, chronically unemployed non tax payers etc etc then EVERYONE who has ever worked a day in their lives in this country deserves free healthcare equally regardless of political beliefs, sexual tendencies, religious or not or vaccination status.... I pity those not vaccinated by the stubborness of their own vain convictions ( and fear for the lives of some of them) but still believe that they are entitled to the best care the government of our country can give them....... Before you jump down my throat, think about it compassionately, you are probably all moralising the subject but what if someone you love or even yourselves (in another circumstance perhaps you may feel differently about another future issue) was in need of intubation and was non vaccinated, would you want them to just die in the street? Its not our health care systems fault that our government spending on health is appallingly, that instead of working on medical,staff training, , icu capacity in regional areas AND procuring necessary ventilators/equipment AS PROMISED.... they have f@cked around willy nilly playing the political hide the salami over border closures and who has the least lockdowns..... Do you not think there are people making decisions about covid response plans right this minute who are in fact echoing some of the bullshit on here... These same people are antivax" "scamdemic", Bill Gates will steal all of our money and all the world's footballers will be given heart failures so NFL can takeover as the new world order of sport devotees yet they are planning a response to something they neither fear nor respect...... The point I'm trying to make is that its a slippery slope. Once you exclude one group in a so-called universal health system, its no longer universal, so why not exclude others ? Another example: More young healthy males will die/seriously injured riding motor-bikes this year than unvaccinated young fit males will die/become seriously ill from covid. They don't have to ride bikes-its a choice. An unwise one. Why do we treat them for the unwise choice they made? As far as your last point, you're talking about fringe nut job stereotypes. There are non-vaccinated people who have assessed their own risk profile-which has been made more difficult than it should be- and decided not to get vaccinated. The decisions are not unreasonable, it may be unwise, but so is riding a motorbike. I am agreeing with you Enzo. I get your point and agree. And yes I AM talking about the fringe nut jobs out there, many of whom are in positions of both social and political responsibility... I have no issue with someone choosing not to be vaccinated and riding the consequences of his/her actions if there are any... I think it is socially irresponsible personally but you are right that the "societal cost" on health care is comparable to lots of other "irresponsible" activities - most of which I try and include as part of my life daily btw :) hahahaha. I do dislike the "movement" that "antivax" represents though the whole push towards individual freedom being some sort of divine right that people can hide behind whilst acting in the most appalling ways. Happy for people not to take the covid risk seriously and thus not vaccinate but NOT when they try and influence others.. I guess Im the same with religion, sexuality, political leanings or whatever .... do what you want as long it doesn't harm me or my family, just dont try and convince me otherwise.
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cesspit
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note to mods, misinformation costs people their lives eloquently put by the US surgeon general https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1486332697735831557?s=20&t=mAeGVf6WKZ4e4MkVwkmk2A
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tsf
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cesspit
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yes even Fox News indeed the anti-vaxxers have nowhere to turn now but the extreme right for affirmation of their nutjob views
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johnsmith
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+xyes even Fox News indeed the anti-vaxxers have nowhere to turn now but the extreme right for affirmation of their nutjob views You do realise that Fox News -- even since the dad Rupert Murdoch handed over day to day control to his Left-leaning sons -- has gone towards the Left, and is no longer in favour by many conservatives?
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johnsmith
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Today's news (1 February 2021) https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/japanese-firm-says-ivermectin-shows-antiviral-effect-against-covid19/news-story/8cdfe85f8f5800cc98c348d287827719“The controversial drug ivermectin shows an “antiviral effect” against Covid-19, a Japanese drug company said on Monday.” Meanwhile, for those of you who are open-minded (i.e. not biased) and willing to consider evidence and data, please see this article: https://pierrekory.substack.com/p/the-global-disinformation-campaign?By now, there are several reader-comments under the above article at news.com.au. It is a fascinating exercise in the study of human nature to compare the overall pattern of comments under the news.com.au article versus the overall pattern of comments on this ftbl forum. How is it that the two websites seem to attract a totally different type of reader comment? https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/japanese-firm-says-ivermectin-shows-antiviral-effect-against-covid19/news-story/8cdfe85f8f5800cc98c348d287827719#share-tools
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tsf
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1. One is a football forum. 2. The other is a news source for simple folk.
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Davide82
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+x+xyes even Fox News indeed the anti-vaxxers have nowhere to turn now but the extreme right for affirmation of their nutjob views You do realise that Fox News -- even since the dad Rupert Murdoch handed over day to day control to his Left-leaning sons -- has gone towards the Left, and is no longer in favour by many conservatives? Lachlan Murdoch is a leftie? I mean maybe James had a consience when he left Fox etc but Lachlan is worse than his father from everything I have seen in recent years
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Muz
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+x+x+xyes even Fox News indeed the anti-vaxxers have nowhere to turn now but the extreme right for affirmation of their nutjob views You do realise that Fox News -- even since the dad Rupert Murdoch handed over day to day control to his Left-leaning sons -- has gone towards the Left, and is no longer in favour by many conservatives? Lachlan Murdoch is a leftie? I mean maybe James had a consience when he left Fox etc but Lachlan is worse than his father from everything I have seen in recent years The idiot wouldn't know his arse from his elbow let alone which Murdoch is which.
Member since 2008.
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sydneyfc1987
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+x+x+xyes even Fox News indeed the anti-vaxxers have nowhere to turn now but the extreme right for affirmation of their nutjob views You do realise that Fox News -- even since the dad Rupert Murdoch handed over day to day control to his Left-leaning sons -- has gone towards the Left, and is no longer in favour by many conservatives? Lachlan Murdoch is a leftie? I mean maybe James had a consience when he left Fox etc but Lachlan is worse than his father from everything I have seen in recent years Which one is Kendall and which one is Roman?
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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Burztur
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+x+x+xyes even Fox News indeed the anti-vaxxers have nowhere to turn now but the extreme right for affirmation of their nutjob views You do realise that Fox News -- even since the dad Rupert Murdoch handed over day to day control to his Left-leaning sons -- has gone towards the Left, and is no longer in favour by many conservatives? Lachlan Murdoch is a leftie? I mean maybe James had a consience when he left Fox etc but Lachlan is worse than his father from everything I have seen in recent years Gone so far right it becomes left. Sometimes people just go round in circles...
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cesspit
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anti-vax icon Novax Djokovic has announced he's getting vaccinated
that should be a hammer blow to the anti-vax 'movement'
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+xanti-vax icon Novax Djokovic has announced he's getting vaccinated that should be a hammer blow to the anti-vax 'movement' Absolutely nothing to do with the little green crocodile on his chest threatening to take a big chomp out of his endorsement cheque if he can't play in the French Open... This all about freedom of choice and faith in the teachings of the Serbian Church.... He had a change of heart....
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cesspit
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how long are these anti-science boomers going to be blocking traffic in Canberra?
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ErogenousZone
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cesspit
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reports of anti-vaxxers terrorizing shop staff and running people over in Canberra https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFSmM8PZo6c
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LFC.
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get a life mate......
Love Football
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mcjules
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Well it got me. Wasn't super sick, thanks to being triple vaxxed it was a bit of congestion and a sore throat that came and went for a couple of weeks. Kids got it too and were actually a bit worse than me but still fine. Took some time out to rest up while in isolation so I'm all good now.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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Muz
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+xWell it got me. Wasn't super sick, thanks to being triple vaxxed it was a bit of congestion and a sore throat that came and went for a couple of weeks. Kids got it too and were actually a bit worse than me but still fine. Took some time out to rest up while in isolation so I'm all good now. Sounds exactly like what a government shill would say.
Member since 2008.
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cesspit
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anti-vaxxers still think COVID is a conspiracy theory until one day they find themselves in hospital on a vent begging for their lives and lamenting they didn't get the damn vaccine
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mcjules
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+x+xWell it got me. Wasn't super sick, thanks to being triple vaxxed it was a bit of congestion and a sore throat that came and went for a couple of weeks. Kids got it too and were actually a bit worse than me but still fine. Took some time out to rest up while in isolation so I'm all good now. Sounds exactly like what a government shill would say. Of course :) Seriously though I tested positive pretty much 2 weeks after my booster so the anti-bodies were strong. No regrets getting vaccinated at all as I usually get smashed by colds and other respiratory infections.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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tsf
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+xWell it got me. Wasn't super sick, thanks to being triple vaxxed it was a bit of congestion and a sore throat that came and went for a couple of weeks. Kids got it too and were actually a bit worse than me but still fine. Took some time out to rest up while in isolation so I'm all good now. Good to hear bud.
Yeah my missus twice in three months. She hasn’t had a booster though.
She was very sick first time. Not so bad the second.
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LFC.
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+x+xWell it got me. Wasn't super sick, thanks to being triple vaxxed it was a bit of congestion and a sore throat that came and went for a couple of weeks. Kids got it too and were actually a bit worse than me but still fine. Took some time out to rest up while in isolation so I'm all good now. Good to hear bud.
Yeah my missus twice in three months. She hasn’t had a booster though.
She was very sick first time. Not so bad the second.
yep x 2 or 3 mcjules..... Glad ok and fam and for any of you. Twice in months ffs, talk about bugga. My own just been my eldest son and fiance, he struggled for a few weeks, knocked him about alot yet his fiance went through mildly and over and done with. Touch wood the wife and I haven't experienced it. Keep safe people.
Love Football
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Burztur
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+x+x+xWell it got me. Wasn't super sick, thanks to being triple vaxxed it was a bit of congestion and a sore throat that came and went for a couple of weeks. Kids got it too and were actually a bit worse than me but still fine. Took some time out to rest up while in isolation so I'm all good now. Good to hear bud.
Yeah my missus twice in three months. She hasn’t had a booster though.
She was very sick first time. Not so bad the second.
yep x 2 or 3 mcjules..... Glad ok and fam and for any of you. Twice in months ffs, talk about bugga. My own just been my eldest son and fiance, he struggled for a few weeks, knocked him about alot yet his fiance went through mildly and over and done with. Touch wood the wife and I haven't experienced it. Keep safe people. +1 Take care everyone. Pretty sure we're all gonna get it eventually.
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sydneyfc1987
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+x+x+x+xWell it got me. Wasn't super sick, thanks to being triple vaxxed it was a bit of congestion and a sore throat that came and went for a couple of weeks. Kids got it too and were actually a bit worse than me but still fine. Took some time out to rest up while in isolation so I'm all good now. Good to hear bud.
Yeah my missus twice in three months. She hasn’t had a booster though.
She was very sick first time. Not so bad the second.
yep x 2 or 3 mcjules..... Glad ok and fam and for any of you. Twice in months ffs, talk about bugga. My own just been my eldest son and fiance, he struggled for a few weeks, knocked him about alot yet his fiance went through mildly and over and done with. Touch wood the wife and I haven't experienced it. Keep safe people. +1 Take care everyone. Pretty sure we're all gonna get it eventually. Given asymptomatic omicron infections could be as high as 70% I'd say a few of us who think we haven't had it actually have.
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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mcjules
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+x+xWell it got me. Wasn't super sick, thanks to being triple vaxxed it was a bit of congestion and a sore throat that came and went for a couple of weeks. Kids got it too and were actually a bit worse than me but still fine. Took some time out to rest up while in isolation so I'm all good now. Good to hear bud.
Yeah my missus twice in three months. She hasn’t had a booster though.
She was very sick first time. Not so bad the second.
Yeah that's rough mate. I feel somewhat relaxed at the moment, but it won't be long until there's another variant and we'll have to be careful again. The main worry was infecting the people around me. Have elderly family and as well as others with medical conditions that make them vulnerable and there were some close calls with that. Lucky they were all fine. I don't know what the rules are in Victoria but my wife didn't get infected and had the roughest deal out of all of us. We were able to leave home after 10 days but because she could have potentially been infected later in our isolation she had to stay home for the full 14 days.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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