the measures taken here have resulted in Australia being the envy of the world

and you want to throw all of that away and turn the place into Florida because "Ma FwEeDoMs"

look...
https://twitter.com/grantltaylor/status/1495396872625737731?s=20&t=nhyPgQQz-bmv_pVfWXizSA

I didnt waste my time clicking the link because your an obvious troll and dont have a valid point. But kinda highlights the typical response from those "pro restrictions"

Its perfectly acceptable for kids grades 3-6 to effectively throw away a full term of their education just because people bought into the internet memes being peddled around when Americans first objected to face mask usage

Its not 2020 anymore. The game has changed. No sense in destroying the futures of the least vulnerable cohort just so a few nut job chest beaters can get a sense of satisfaction in remaining hysterical

the valid point was a short video in the link made by someone who knows what they're talking about, ...unlike you

and here is more evidence of Australia's success 

you wanna throw that all away?

Explain to me how face masks on buses and for kids grade 3-6 (5-6 hours a day, 5 days a week) is the foundation of that picture. Create two simulations of Australia today, one with face maks laws on buses and kids in Victorian schools, one without, and show me the death count for both

The story behind that picture was due to our initial response (no thanks to Victoria by the way) in 2020 where 99% of it was due to closing our borders. Things are different now. We have opened up, the population is largely vaccinated, and things are under control. Yet it is still a criminal offence to go on a bus without covering your mouth and nose (despite the national definition of a high risk contact being 4 hours in a household like setting)

No measure should be introduced by law unless it can be conclusively demonstrated that it is the difference between hospital systems being overrun or not, and applied nationally. And given how pathetic modelling attempts have been through the course of the pandemic, the standard epidemiologist sesationalised Excel spreadsheets should not be taken as evidence

There are a lot of people who have found comfort in hiding from this. You only have to read through the last few days in the ABC live blog the number of hysterical people concerned that indoor mask laws is the only thing keeping their vulnerable elderly relatives alive. Nobody's life should be trusted to somebody else's ability to wear a mask but thats the level of danger being exhibited due to the misinformation being spread

I dont give a shit about liberal or labour. The party that has decided that today is the time to move out of this pandemic, and not keep a foot in tokenistic restrictions as a compromise, is the party that gets my vote

Care to fill me in? You're killing me aha

A party doesn't decide when the pandemic ends.  Science does.

A party decides how much to burden its citizens and how to to balance a health response against other necessities (such as the legal right to an education)

Infectious diseases are nothing new and the management of them has never been this intrusive. This will never be "over". Once restrictions become cultural, they will be for life.

The Covid pandemic should not be used as an excuse to implement new laws to benefit the health system as a whole for the lifetime of our species. They should be point in time strategies to minimise hospitalisations and deaths relevant to the current disease

first class interview from Waleed Aly

this shows the chilling cult of conspiracy and someone who managed to break away from it

The Freedom Fighter Who Escaped The World Of Conspiracy Theories

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8YaBWN4yuE

Before that he was probably somebody who believed he was a health risk for stepping on a bus without wearing a mask despite borders being open and no other caps or limits in place, in a country with vaccination rates over 95%

Hope you can break away from conspiracy theory one day also

its basically a documentary about JohnSmith

This is a fascinating breakdown of who gets vaccinated and doesn't in America, and why.

https://fb.watch/bmFVZPVKlI/

Is that the science that created the virus in the first place

Not on a bus but that's very likely how I caught it mate. I was even outdoors.

Right and from what I read you and your family did quite well because you were all vaccinated. You also caught it despite following all face mask regulations which highlights how fruitless they were

There have been 3.15m cases reported in Australia and well over 80% would have been through work places, households or shared facilities. Having mask laws for just public transport seems odd, especially given the substantial evidence that masks are ineffective against the latest variants

If there is no end date on mask laws for public transport it will just be an indefinite law that some people obey and some dont. I cant see a time where health officials will say they are no longer required given the obvious stake they have in them. If Covid rules are reviewed regularly then I'm at an absolute loss how any rational response team with the interests in moving away from restrictions will see public transport as a high risk area worth targetting

This is the kind of thing that needs to be made public for scrutiny. I'd like to see what modelling says masks on public transport is what is keeping Australia from being overwhelmed with cases

Agree. Would love to see all the medical advice and modelling given throughout the pandemic. Government should be open about this.

so surgeons should stop wearing masks in hospital because of the tiny chance they might not be 100% effective?

any added protection will stop the spread

Thats just stupid. Surgeons wear masks as part of a package of protectional measures and they are also in a high risk setting. Its called layers of protections

Masks on buses in the general public as a sole measure is trying to avoid getting sunburnt by spending all day outside naked on a 40 degree day, and putting on a hat betwwen 12:00pm and 12:01pm

How can you open borders, invite over internationals, tear down 99% of restrictions, allow uncapped social gatherings, and then claim the objective is to "stop the spread"?

And dont forget also, this isnt recommendation, advice or self management. This is legislation. It is a criminal offence to not wear a mask on any kind of public transport anywhere in Australia in any situation. A one sized fits all approach even if its just you and the bus driver at opposite sides of the bus for a 5 minute journey

Stop pretending this is a well thought out rational measure that is the back bone of our response. Covid restrictions were introduced to stop Covid hospitalisations and they should not be used for anything else. No restriction should be in place today without 100% transparency and regular reviews

I agree but most people don't know how to interpret the models correctly, bluebird especially would be bad at this.

Nope caught it outdoors and maskless. A poorly ventilated metal tube is far worse and masks make a difference.

While state run contact tracing is virtually non-existent now, when I got my positive result I let everyone I knew that had even a fleeting contact with me to be on alert for it. Do you reckon the random stranger that gave it to me at the City game was able to do the same to me? This is why stranger to stranger transmission is more concerning than getting it from a workplace or from family.

Contact tracing is non existent because its irrelevant. Not part of the game anymore. Pointless. I appreciate and respect your efforts in alerting contacts for their benefit but its not part of any attempt to curb the spread

Also, you're assuming you got it from the City game. Unless you were in a bubble, went to the city game, and went back to a bubble you don't know where or how you got it. There is a 4 day transmission window

Another point: if stranger to stranger transmission is concerning, then how does face masks on just public transport stop that. Didnt help in your case. Either its something we're serious in stopping and go all the way with it or something we manage through other means (like living alongside it)

As for masks making a difference, there is substantial proof that all but the highest grade of masks can stop Omicron. Unless you expect wide use of top grade masks applied properly in the general public then masked or maskless wouldnt have made a difference

Why weren't you wearing a mask by the way given your stance on them? Surely its not one of those things you do when legally required, and dont do when not legally required...

Gotcha so if you catch it you won't tell anyone that you might have had contact with that they should be on the lookout for symptoms? Glad I don't know you to be honest.

Yes i didnt go out at all before the the match or the following days after the match. There might have had a chance that I got it at the supermarket just after that. Regardless I have no doubt I got it from someone I don't know.

Your notion of going all the way to stop the spread or not is just ridiculous and has been pointed out many times as such. Reducing transmission is very much a worthwhile goal.

I assessed my risks that being in an open air space with a decent breeze bringing in fresh air, being recently boosted and sitting relatively distanced (it was far from a sellout and my GA ticket allows me to choose where i sit), that my chances of catching it from someone were low, SA Health deem it the same way. Wasn't chances weren't 0 though and clearly it didn't work. That's living with the virus is, knowing there's a chance that you can catch it and spread it and taking the measures that health authorities and yourself deem appropriate to reduce the chances of it straining the hospital system, not "I'm bluebird and I've decided it's over now because it's inconvenient for me".

Dont recall saying I wont tell anybody, just said contact tracing is not part of a national effort so no need to start handing out flyers to strangers. Victoria of all places have scrapped the isolation payment as there is no directive to isolate / contact trace

I get you're not in favour of an all or none approach, but explain the "limiting the spread by face masks on buses" approach that you seem to be in favour of. SA recorded 145k cases in ~8 weeks. Nothing you saw in any state over the last few weeks was a strategic balance. You might think partial restrictions mean partial numbers but ithere is no evidence to support that. Nobody was in control. Either you have the virus kicking about or you dont. Random B grade restrictions wont stop that

The reason you caught the virus is simple. There are no real measures in place to stop the spread, and you made a calculated risk as an individual despite an outbreak. Same as a lot of people in SA and across the country. Yet for some bizarre reason it is still a criminal offence to go on a bus without a mask. And you call this "reducing chances of straining the hospital system"?

You keep saying this bullshit :laugh: 

It's up to the experts to explain this clearly to people. If you can't explain it clearly, then you need to do better and perhaps you're not that much of an expert :)

I also think full disclosure on some of this would highlight the inconsistency in certain Government decisions (some of which I believe is not based on medical advice, but commercial). 

the "I'm alright mate but F you" attitude of the right is on full display in this era

they never think about the greater good and community

just because you want to drink and drive doesn't make it safe for the rest of us

The key point you guys keep forgetting is restrictions arent just for laughs. It is a national health directive given by trusted officials

If public transport is declared as dangerous then people will avoid it, as data suggests has been the case. In fact Victoria have recorded more road accidents recently due to people avoiding public transport that they have even tried to offer incentives to get people using it again. Its trading one problem for another. Just like when people avoided going to the office, or swapped going to Covid safe public places for private gatherings, not to mention the immeasurable damage to the youth due to impaired education / socialisation

How can you give a professional assessment backed by legislation and enforce a penalty system without substantial proof that it will make a difference? I'd love to see the modelling that shows going to the football is safe as long as you don't catch a bus on the way there. Sure have private gatherings, weddings, hell its even safe to dance and sing again. But dont get on a bus without making some kind of attempt to cover your face because this is extremely dangerous

Hospitals, aged care and public transport. The three areas of greatest concern. Again, would love to see the modelling. Maybe I am too stupid to understand it but surely you guys could explain it to me

The fact that anybody has to try to guess, defend or justify the directive shows the danger in having it. You're so sure is damn important, you just dont quite know why

Yet when "fit and healthy young people" start dying, or start getting long-term complications from infection, or pass that infection along to immunocompromised people and kill them because they're asymptomatic carriers... Then what? What does your "personal choice" have to do when it starts killing people who had no "choice" in how you passed along a disease that killed or maimed them?

You dont get it. Face masks dont make buses safe for vulnerable people. Face masks dont make supermarkets safe for them, or weddings. The level of ignorance to this regard is sickening

The elderly and vulnerable need their own strategies for getting through this pandemic, not just this year or next year, but 5 or 10 years, or even ongoing. The same response that was rolled out for the least vulnerable cohort should have been done for aged care facilities instead of schools. Supermarkets should have a 7am to 8am operating times exclusively for the elderly (maybe transport options too) like we saw in the past

Helping the elderly get through this is not about "herp de derp, face masks, herp de derp". It requires real life style changes for the most vulnerable members, and inherently all of us. Real life changes, real life outcomes

I actually think it would be better if all mask laws and social distancing laws were scrapped outside of hopsitals and aged care because it will help remove some of that false sense of security that people exhibit when it comes to restrictions. If people feel more vulnerable they might make smarter decisions instead of thinking that a piece of legislation simply being in place can stop a highly infectious disease

Wake up to yourself

I work in open data and am definitely a supporter of having this sort of information out there in the public domain. However you have to be realistic, there are hard facts out there now that are publicly accessible (such as covid death stats) that are interpreted completely wrongly either because the person isn't capable of it or even worse they have nefarious motives to push a narrative.  Modelling is even more complex to understand. 

There's definitely some decisions that were done for "economic" reasons. No doubt about that. Whether that's always a bad thing is up for debate and I agree it'd be good to know. Just won't be politically popular so it will never happen.