Fox Sports primed to pull pin on A-League, claims broadcast rights guru


Fox Sports primed to pull pin on A-League, claims broadcast rights...

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n i k o - 9 May 2020 1:08 AM
paulc - 8 May 2020 10:53 AM

Vision, planning? All things of which you have no proof of not happening. But what about the disastrous supporter relations that Lowy and Gallop left the game in? There’s some solid proof of how not to run the game. 5 years on and still the game has never recovered. What a state of affairs. 

That word 'Vision' is exclusively owned by a former administrator of a rival sport, his name was John Ribot. I don't think that word can be carelessly and recklessly used unless we pay royalties to him. 
Gallop had to pay to use that word a couple of times.
Edited
5 Years Ago by soccerfoo
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n i k o - 9 May 2020 1:08 AM
paulc - 8 May 2020 10:53 AM

Vision, planning? All things of which you have no proof of not happening. But what about the disastrous supporter relations that Lowy and Gallop left the game in? There’s some solid proof of how not to run the game. 5 years on and still the game has never recovered. What a state of affairs. 

You can't be real. Not even a mention of a plan by the new CEO of P&R and NSD. No vision, plan or new charter has been aired which costs nothing and is the most basic of good management principles. 

In a resort somewhere

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Burztur - 9 May 2020 10:31 AM
CS - 9 May 2020 10:21 AM

News Corp and Telstra took a 1.4b and 300m impairment for Foxtel. https://www.itnews.com.au/news/telstra-to-book-300m-foxtel-stake-impairment-charge-547921

Perhaps there is a God. 
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CS - 9 May 2020 10:21 AM
bettega - 8 May 2020 11:24 AM

Imagine the loss of revenue that represents.

News Corp and Telstra took a 1.4b and 300m impairment for Foxtel. https://www.itnews.com.au/news/telstra-to-book-300m-foxtel-stake-impairment-charge-547921
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bettega - 8 May 2020 11:24 AM
Some interesting stats from sports industry:

March had an all time Kayo paying sub high of 408,000, But as of May 2nd, there were over 272,000 paying Kayo subscribers, due primarily to "cancellation and/or postponement of sports events as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic" http://footyindustry.com/?p=15702

incredible that 272,000 have hung onto Kayo


Imagine the loss of revenue that represents.
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SWandP - 9 May 2020 3:44 AM
clockwork orange - 8 May 2020 12:09 PM

Yep.  Dead right.  I was picturing 1980 in my head when I wrote it.  Not sure how I placed it non-chronological order.  I remember the SMH did a story on two Marconi players announcing that they were about to become the first NSL full timers.  I was having a chat to a leading, if not the leading, NSL striker about that time and he told me was on 400 per goal.  I was stunned.   That was about a month's wages for a pleb back then.  This guy (wonderful person) had a full time Govt job.  His Sydney based club were tossing money they didn't have, at the team, chasing a trophy.

That was were the over-expenditure started.  It got worse after the overhaul in Europe.  That is how I meant to ramble the story out.  Now players could stay and get a good wage and maybe send their club broke or travel overseas and set themselves up for life - but at the real chance of losing their local comfort without ever getting a real gig in the big time.

A lot of people keep putting the forward the notion that for some non-understandable reason (must be the Aussie way!) why we foolishly entered the current era with a salary cap.  A huge reason was that the investors in the teams wanted to avoid the disaster that befell the NSL. Crazy overspending raged for a title that way too few could care about.  Who even remembers what the trophy looked like?  I bet you can mentally picture the FA Cup or the World Cup though....right?

Another, much hated latterly by the masses, idea was separating the League licence from the Club that managed it.  The idea was talked about as way of carving off the Football operation from your "real" club.  The football team could sink and not take the club house with it.  Well it hasn't been that easy for community clubs whether they be locality or ethnically based.  Ask Brisbane Lions if it was a costly venture setting up Roar.  On the other hand I've noted conversations where opinions were expressed where slick business operators might be able to pump debt into into the licence holding company and then send that neat little vessel onto the bankruptcy rocks.  It's probably good PR if you cry the nasty soccer people ripped me off and now I can't pay the scrillions of money owed to the debt holders of the shelf companys mortgaged to raise the capital for the licence!  So they say.  What do we really know if we believe the newspapers, or worse, the internet journalists?

I like real clubs being fully integrated with real football teams.  I also like to believe that a lot of good people aren't going to lose everything because they signed onto what seemed a good idea. Well good as long as you think with your heart.  There are new and interesting ways being trialled OS about managing Club investment and debt.  I genuinely don't have a view as to whether they work well, or at all.  The last thing this country needs is club after club falling out of the national competitions because their football department had the great idea if we bring in Ronaldo (the fat one) "we are gonna make millions through the gate and shirt sales".

Club Marconi (the social club) was one of the biggest clubs of its kind - it was the Panthers Leagues Club of it’s time. Not surprising there was a bit of money around .. mostly cash in paper bags. Enough even to lure George Best for a few games!
I still hanker for a club where, after the game, fans can all walk next door for a beer (or a vino), a feed and a discussion about who played well and who was rubbish.
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clockwork orange - 8 May 2020 12:09 PM
SWandP - 7 May 2020 10:22 PM

You seem to be out by a decade.  Krncevic left Australia for Europe in 1981, and Sharne retired in 1988.  They and Jankovic played together at Marconi in the late 70s.

Yep.  Dead right.  I was picturing 1980 in my head when I wrote it.  Not sure how I placed it non-chronological order.  I remember the SMH did a story on two Marconi players announcing that they were about to become the first NSL full timers.  I was having a chat to a leading, if not the leading, NSL striker about that time and he told me was on 400 per goal.  I was stunned.   That was about a month's wages for a pleb back then.  This guy (wonderful person) had a full time Govt job.  His Sydney based club were tossing money they didn't have, at the team, chasing a trophy.

That was were the over-expenditure started.  It got worse after the overhaul in Europe.  That is how I meant to ramble the story out.  Now players could stay and get a good wage and maybe send their club broke or travel overseas and set themselves up for life - but at the real chance of losing their local comfort without ever getting a real gig in the big time.

A lot of people keep putting the forward the notion that for some non-understandable reason (must be the Aussie way!) why we foolishly entered the current era with a salary cap.  A huge reason was that the investors in the teams wanted to avoid the disaster that befell the NSL. Crazy overspending raged for a title that way too few could care about.  Who even remembers what the trophy looked like?  I bet you can mentally picture the FA Cup or the World Cup though....right?

Another, much hated latterly by the masses, idea was separating the League licence from the Club that managed it.  The idea was talked about as way of carving off the Football operation from your "real" club.  The football team could sink and not take the club house with it.  Well it hasn't been that easy for community clubs whether they be locality or ethnically based.  Ask Brisbane Lions if it was a costly venture setting up Roar.  On the other hand I've noted conversations where opinions were expressed where slick business operators might be able to pump debt into into the licence holding company and then send that neat little vessel onto the bankruptcy rocks.  It's probably good PR if you cry the nasty soccer people ripped me off and now I can't pay the scrillions of money owed to the debt holders of the shelf companys mortgaged to raise the capital for the licence!  So they say.  What do we really know if we believe the newspapers, or worse, the internet journalists?

I like real clubs being fully integrated with real football teams.  I also like to believe that a lot of good people aren't going to lose everything because they signed onto what seemed a good idea. Well good as long as you think with your heart.  There are new and interesting ways being trialled OS about managing Club investment and debt.  I genuinely don't have a view as to whether they work well, or at all.  The last thing this country needs is club after club falling out of the national competitions because their football department had the great idea if we bring in Ronaldo (the fat one) "we are gonna make millions through the gate and shirt sales".

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paulc - 8 May 2020 10:53 AM
libel - 7 May 2020 8:03 PM

The new FFA and iHAL had plenty of time now to start planning and actioning a path forward and we don't even have a vision.

What a disastrous state of affairs we have led ourselves into.

Vision, planning? All things of which you have no proof of not happening. But what about the disastrous supporter relations that Lowy and Gallop left the game in? There’s some solid proof of how not to run the game. 5 years on and still the game has never recovered. What a state of affairs. 
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Waz - 3 May 2020 10:58 PM

oh really? Thats good
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SWandP - 7 May 2020 10:22 PM
Waz - 7 May 2020 8:10 PM


Summer vs Winter:
Channel 9 had changed cricket forever.  The same people were asked to look at Australian Soccer and they came up with a bunch of changes that were deemed necessary to get the game on television ( the big money). In 1989 we transitioned straight from winter to summer.  Plenty of football that year.  The pitches were better and the crowds started to improve.
First GF was 26.000 odd with Sydney Olympic vs Marconi.  New record crowd.
Crowds actually rose (rocketed) from 500,000 total with an average of 3000 to a new total of 1.5 million average of 5000.
The ABC started broadcasting the games.
It was about this time that a couple of players declared that they would become full time professional players.  Mark Jankovic and Eddie Krncevic? Peter Sharne? So there was some money at the clubs that were willing to pay a living wage to a few of their top signings.
So the game was going busters right?  The ASF meanwhile ran a critical loss of $690k.  Not a happy bottom line and one that risked the National Team and somewhat obviously any investment at all at any level of the game.



You seem to be out by a decade.  Krncevic left Australia for Europe in 1981, and Sharne retired in 1988.  They and Jankovic played together at Marconi in the late 70s.

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Some interesting stats from sports industry:

March had an all time Kayo paying sub high of 408,000, But as of May 2nd, there were over 272,000 paying Kayo subscribers, due primarily to "cancellation and/or postponement of sports events as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic" http://footyindustry.com/?p=15702

incredible that 272,000 have hung onto Kayo


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Waz - 8 May 2020 10:17 AM
jaymz - 8 May 2020 9:55 AM

They could and probably will. 

If the clubs are receiving about $37m of the current deal a haircut to $28m is not a disaster, especially if they can sell domestic and international rights separately which the FFA failed to do in a way that generates cash for the clubs. 

A smart move would be to either extend the deal by a couple more years to provide certainty, or possibly split the deal with Optus where both platforms broadcast the full HAL fixture list but only pay half the price. 

I still reckon the iHAL should look into handling the production themselves. According to that article above, Fox are spending ~$40k per game in production costs. That equates to $13.5m - $15.5m per season (depending on number of rounds). That $40k number could probably be reduced somewhat (eg: less cameras, dump VAR, etc) then they could probably get it down to close to $10m per season in production costs.  It would then be far easier to sell the rights to any number of networks and/or platforms.
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SWandP - 5 May 2020 3:15 PM
Waz - 5 May 2020 1:50 PM

The NSL sucked .
The A League was an improvement in many many respects. It lacks things that can be implemented without nuking it totally.
We are at a place where evolution is possible and responsible.  Revolution must cease or we are doomed to cyclical failure.
There is little that won't be resolved, over time, with the introduction of a large 2nd tier (no conferences), that graduates with teams from the bottom with semi-pro, to full time at the top.
Have that 2nd tier integrate with the Regional NPLs first.
Each tier runs itself to standards agreed by all at that level, oversight for compliance by a central body.
Then stick the A League on top and you have a sustainable monster that will have the capacity to grow at the determination of its constituents.


agree
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libel - 7 May 2020 8:03 PM
Oh dear, just imagine the new ffa re-negotiating for half (or less than half) of what Lowy got. And still on Fox...

The new FFA and iHAL had plenty of time now to start planning and actioning a path forward and we don't even have a vision.

What a disastrous state of affairs we have led ourselves into.


In a resort somewhere

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SWandP - 7 May 2020 10:22 PM
Waz - 7 May 2020 8:10 PM

Let's try to blow the head off the NSL zombie because it just keeps trying to get out of the grave.

Conferences: In 1984 the competition split into 2 "regions".  It held the benefit of expanding the competition, allowing the two big drawing Croatian teams to join and the introduction of regional pro/rel (with a couple of clubs "quarantined").   The benefit was that with the expansion and regionalisation the crowds would increase.  (Think more derbys).  Result was that crowds dropped to an average of 2000 and they didn't recover until the conferences died in in '87.  

Summary:  Conferences blow.  Regionalisation doesn't increase crowds.  You just have a State League with a fancy name.  Pro/Rel was fully politicised and just didn't work.  St George did recover when put back in the NSW State League and promptly entertained larger attendances than they had enjoyed in the NSL.  Weird but true.  Sydney City dropped out of the League after it became national again because they said it was sending them broke.

Summer vs Winter:
Channel 9 had changed cricket forever.  The same people were asked to look at Australian Soccer and they came up with a bunch of changes that were deemed necessary to get the game on television ( the big money). In 1989 we transitioned straight from winter to summer.  Plenty of football that year.  The pitches were better and the crowds started to improve.
First GF was 26.000 odd with Sydney Olympic vs Marconi.  New record crowd.
Crowds actually rose (rocketed) from 500,000 total with an average of 3000 to a new total of 1.5 million average of 5000.
The ABC started broadcasting the games.
It was about this time that a couple of players declared that they would become full time professional players.  Mark Jankovic and Eddie Krncevic? Peter Sharne? So there was some money at the clubs that were willing to pay a living wage to a few of their top signings.
So the game was going busters right?  The ASF meanwhile ran a critical loss of $690k.  Not a happy bottom line and one that risked the National Team and somewhat obviously any investment at all at any level of the game.

Summary:  Summer improved crowds, attracted television and improved finances locally, but not for the ASF.  The game was played on better pitches but afternoon games were sometimes testing player and spectator comfort.  Spectators generally enjoyed the late summer evening games more than the drizzly freezing winter alternative played in a bog.

Soldiering on with it until everybody went broke:
Over the next 10 years the game became massively financed in Europe and suddenly there was a lucrative path for players to have a high paid career - as long as they were happy to pack their bags and move offshore for a decade.  The "stars" left the local game.  They did however improve as players and this rapidly improved the prospects of the National Team.  The problem remained that the ASF was perennially broke and couldn't afford to arrange quality travel, accommodation, or wages when it called on their rising stars for representative duty.  It wasn't that great for the players either. Easier to play for say, Italy if you had a dual passport.  The NSL was part-time, under-funded and run along political lines closely associated with a couple of "larger" clubs and to a degree, the State they came from. 

It was clear that the Clubs based on ethnic followings couldn't afford to field fully professional teams, because their base crowd and interest, already insufficient, was falling as the years passed.  Attempts had to be made to attract a broader base of supporters identifying with locality rather than ethnicity.  (Whoa! This was 1950 all over again.  I digress.)
Suddenly the stage was set for Carlton and Perth Glory and Northern Spirit.  It worked and it didn't. David Hill pushed it forward.  The game had to go forward to escape the awful spectre of Senate inquiries into possible corruption at the ASF and its National Team setup that had just happened.  It looked rosy until the debacle against Iran at the MCG.  Dead man walking after that as Hill had emptied the piggy bank desperate to get Oz to the world cup.  Peter Hoare eh?  But what are you gonna do?  ASF dead and buried and the old chums stepped back up and took all the seats.

The ASF was down and out but those wonderful traditional teams playing out of boutique stadiums, with low cost structures, would hold up well. Right?
Between 2001-2003 the aggregate losses of the NSL clubs was (wait for it................) in excess of $52 million!  (Source: A History of Football in Australia).

Summary:  The NSL started brightly with great ambition.  It was torn apart by selfish interest groups, regional prejudice and chronic under-funding.  It wasn't an attractive proposition to gain the investment it desperately needed from television, sponsorship, or gate receipts.  Licensed Clubs particularly in NSW kept much of it going until even those Clubs actually started to fold under the burden of their Football teams.  In some cases it was lose the Football or the Club.

It wasn't put down by mysterious dark powers, racists, or the Illuminati.  It just wasn't a competition attractive to money.  It needed investment to make itself pretty enough to earn that money.
Not a lot of people with that sort of investment power were willing to pour it into a product that had no vision of what it would look like after the money was consumed.

It was dieing and it could not be revived.  Recite the Dead Parrot sketch and insert NSL instead of parrot and you can summarise where it ended.

Something new was tried and remarkably, despite the visionaries forecasts, has lasted more than 3 years.

THE NSL IS DEAD AND IT IS NEVER COMING BACK. 

Look forward.  The view is better. Not great.  Better.















Also our NT players had to pay for their own airfares to play against New Zealand such was the poor management and all run by "soccer" people. No wonder Lowy was begged to head off the HAL. A brilliant post.


In a resort somewhere

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jaymz - 8 May 2020 9:55 AM
Could they not go to market if its renegotiated to see if someone else is wiling to pay more?

They could and probably will. 

If the clubs are receiving about $37m of the current deal a haircut to $28m is not a disaster, especially if they can sell domestic and international rights separately which the FFA failed to do in a way that generates cash for the clubs. 

A smart move would be to either extend the deal by a couple more years to provide certainty, or possibly split the deal with Optus where both platforms broadcast the full HAL fixture list but only pay half the price. 

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libel - 7 May 2020 8:03 PM
Oh dear, just imagine the new ffa re-negotiating for half (or less than half) of what Lowy got. And still on Fox...

Such a watertight contract that one. Yeah Lowy really is amazing.
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Could they not go to market if its renegotiated to see if someone else is wiling to pay more?

Image

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AJF - 8 May 2020 9:25 AM
Waz - 8 May 2020 9:22 AM

Fowler will be happy as he can sign more backpackers to BR

He’ll be very happy - best team in 2020 
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Waz - 8 May 2020 9:22 AM
bettega - 8 May 2020 8:02 AM

If that what happens then clubs will have to deal with it. 

Many of the visa players are cheaper than good Australian players though, it’s only the top 2 or 3 visa players at certain clubs that are the high earners, the majority want less than Aussies who’s salaries are inflated by scarcity. If Fox cut the money the most likely outcome is the visa players are extended to 6, not 5 or fewer. 

Fowler will be happy as he can sign more backpackers to BR









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bettega - 8 May 2020 8:02 AM
notarobot - 8 May 2020 7:42 AM

As previously reported, they will cut the salary cap in half, which is consistent with Fox cutting its money in half.
I'd be happy with the A-League running the 3+1 rule to be consistent with the ACL.
It's true more than half of the clubs will not be able to afford good foreign players, but a club like the Victory would be able to fill its quota of 3 or 4.

If that what happens then clubs will have to deal with it. 

Many of the visa players are cheaper than good Australian players though, it’s only the top 2 or 3 visa players at certain clubs that are the high earners, the majority want less than Aussies who’s salaries are inflated by scarcity. If Fox cut the money the most likely outcome is the visa players are extended to 6, not 5 or fewer. 

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notarobot - 8 May 2020 7:42 AM
Waz - 8 May 2020 7:29 AM

Well if fox get away with only paying half of the 48mil for next 3 yrs it will be the end of the overseas players and coaches , will that be a positive or negative? 
Sad that we will lose the likes of Ninkovitch and Castro but it will give our Australian youth more opportunity.
interesting times ahead but I think with James Johnson steering the ship we should be all good 


As previously reported, they will cut the salary cap in half, which is consistent with Fox cutting its money in half.
I'd be happy with the A-League running the 3+1 rule to be consistent with the ACL.
It's true more than half of the clubs will not be able to afford good foreign players, but a club like the Victory would be able to fill its quota of 3 or 4.

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Waz - 8 May 2020 7:29 AM
SWandP - 7 May 2020 10:22 PM

Great summary.

Loved the line ”The NSL started brightly with great ambition” .... it did, and it should be celebrated for that and we should reinvigorate that “great ambition” as we look forwards. 

The many failings are well documented so as we reach an inflection point in our code, one that should bring change, there’s no point putting “lipstick on the pig” and trying to remember the NSL better than it was (or should that read “lipstick on the zombie”??). 

Instead we need what follows to be better than both NSL and HAL. 

Well if fox get away with only paying half of the 48mil for next 3 yrs it will be the end of the overseas players and coaches , will that be a positive or negative? 
Sad that we will lose the likes of Ninkovitch and Castro but it will give our Australian youth more opportunity.
interesting times ahead but I think with James Johnson steering the ship we should be all good 


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SWandP - 7 May 2020 10:22 PM
Waz - 7 May 2020 8:10 PM

Let's try to blow the head off the NSL zombie because it just keeps trying to get out of the grave.

Conferences: In 1984 the competition split into 2 "regions".  It held the benefit of expanding the competition, allowing the two big drawing Croatian teams to join and the introduction of regional pro/rel (with a couple of clubs "quarantined").   The benefit was that with the expansion and regionalisation the crowds would increase.  (Think more derbys).  Result was that crowds dropped to an average of 2000 and they didn't recover until the conferences died in in '87.  

Summary:  Conferences blow.  Regionalisation doesn't increase crowds.  You just have a State League with a fancy name.  Pro/Rel was fully politicised and just didn't work.  St George did recover when put back in the NSW State League and promptly entertained larger attendances than they had enjoyed in the NSL.  Weird but true.  Sydney City dropped out of the League after it became national again because they said it was sending them broke.

Summer vs Winter:
Channel 9 had changed cricket forever.  The same people were asked to look at Australian Soccer and they came up with a bunch of changes that were deemed necessary to get the game on television ( the big money). In 1989 we transitioned straight from winter to summer.  Plenty of football that year.  The pitches were better and the crowds started to improve.
First GF was 26.000 odd with Sydney Olympic vs Marconi.  New record crowd.
Crowds actually rose (rocketed) from 500,000 total with an average of 3000 to a new total of 1.5 million average of 5000.
The ABC started broadcasting the games.
It was about this time that a couple of players declared that they would become full time professional players.  Mark Jankovic and Eddie Krncevic? Peter Sharne? So there was some money at the clubs that were willing to pay a living wage to a few of their top signings.
So the game was going busters right?  The ASF meanwhile ran a critical loss of $690k.  Not a happy bottom line and one that risked the National Team and somewhat obviously any investment at all at any level of the game.

Summary:  Summer improved crowds, attracted television and improved finances locally, but not for the ASF.  The game was played on better pitches but afternoon games were sometimes testing player and spectator comfort.  Spectators generally enjoyed the late summer evening games more than the drizzly freezing winter alternative played in a bog.

Soldiering on with it until everybody went broke:
Over the next 10 years the game became massively financed in Europe and suddenly there was a lucrative path for players to have a high paid career - as long as they were happy to pack their bags and move offshore for a decade.  The "stars" left the local game.  They did however improve as players and this rapidly improved the prospects of the National Team.  The problem remained that the ASF was perennially broke and couldn't afford to arrange quality travel, accommodation, or wages when it called on their rising stars for representative duty.  It wasn't that great for the players either. Easier to play for say, Italy if you had a dual passport.  The NSL was part-time, under-funded and run along political lines closely associated with a couple of "larger" clubs and to a degree, the State they came from. 

It was clear that the Clubs based on ethnic followings couldn't afford to field fully professional teams, because their base crowd and interest, already insufficient, was falling as the years passed.  Attempts had to be made to attract a broader base of supporters identifying with locality rather than ethnicity.  (Whoa! This was 1950 all over again.  I digress.)
Suddenly the stage was set for Carlton and Perth Glory and Northern Spirit.  It worked and it didn't. David Hill pushed it forward.  The game had to go forward to escape the awful spectre of Senate inquiries into possible corruption at the ASF and its National Team setup that had just happened.  It looked rosy until the debacle against Iran at the MCG.  Dead man walking after that as Hill had emptied the piggy bank desperate to get Oz to the world cup.  Peter Hoare eh?  But what are you gonna do?  ASF dead and buried and the old chums stepped back up and took all the seats.

The ASF was down and out but those wonderful traditional teams playing out of boutique stadiums, with low cost structures, would hold up well. Right?
Between 2001-2003 the aggregate losses of the NSL clubs was (wait for it................) in excess of $52 million!  (Source: A History of Football in Australia).

Summary:  The NSL started brightly with great ambition.  It was torn apart by selfish interest groups, regional prejudice and chronic under-funding.  It wasn't an attractive proposition to gain the investment it desperately needed from television, sponsorship, or gate receipts.  Licensed Clubs particularly in NSW kept much of it going until even those Clubs actually started to fold under the burden of their Football teams.  In some cases it was lose the Football or the Club.

It wasn't put down by mysterious dark powers, racists, or the Illuminati.  It just wasn't a competition attractive to money.  It needed investment to make itself pretty enough to earn that money.
Not a lot of people with that sort of investment power were willing to pour it into a product that had no vision of what it would look like after the money was consumed.

It was dieing and it could not be revived.  Recite the Dead Parrot sketch and insert NSL instead of parrot and you can summarise where it ended.

Something new was tried and remarkably, despite the visionaries forecasts, has lasted more than 3 years.

THE NSL IS DEAD AND IT IS NEVER COMING BACK. 

Look forward.  The view is better. Not great.  Better.















Great summary.

Loved the line ”The NSL started brightly with great ambition” .... it did, and it should be celebrated for that and we should reinvigorate that “great ambition” as we look forwards. 

The many failings are well documented so as we reach an inflection point in our code, one that should bring change, there’s no point putting “lipstick on the pig” and trying to remember the NSL better than it was (or should that read “lipstick on the zombie”??). 

Instead we need what follows to be better than both NSL and HAL. 

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SWandP - 5 May 2020 3:15 PM
Waz - 5 May 2020 1:50 PM

The NSL sucked .
The A League was an improvement in many many respects. It lacks things that can be implemented without nuking it totally.
We are at a place where evolution is possible and responsible.  Revolution must cease or we are doomed to cyclical failure.
There is little that won't be resolved, over time, with the introduction of a large 2nd tier (no conferences), that graduates with teams from the bottom with semi-pro, to full time at the top.
Have that 2nd tier integrate with the Regional NPLs first.
Each tier runs itself to standards agreed by all at that level, oversight for compliance by a central body.
Then stick the A League on top and you have a sustainable monster that will have the capacity to grow at the determination of its constituents.


Totally agree with this comment.


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Waz - 5 May 2020 1:50 PM
Davstar - 4 May 2020 11:55 PM

What did you like the most ....

no pro/rel, the summer season, the two-legged Grand Final, or the conference system?

or maybe you liked the “bonus point” system for sides winning by 4 goals or more?? 

Or that season when they awarded FOUR points for a win and outlawed drawn matches, with draws being decided by a penalty shoot out but the winner only got two points and the loser got one point just for trying. 

Ahh yes, the good old NSL - normal football (well, “normal”) and as it should be 😂




I personally liked the name of the competition.  What was that really awesome name they had back in the 90s when they were sponsored by Ericson?
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SWandP - 7 May 2020 10:22 PM
Waz - 7 May 2020 8:10 PM

Let's try to blow the head off the NSL zombie because it just keeps trying to get out of the grave.

Conferences: In 1984 the competition split into 2 "regions".  It held the benefit of expanding the competition, allowing the two big drawing Croatian teams to join and the introduction of regional pro/rel (with a couple of clubs "quarantined").   The benefit was that with the expansion and regionalisation the crowds would increase.  (Think more derbys).  Result was that crowds dropped to an average of 2000 and they didn't recover until the conferences died in in '87.  

Summary:  Conferences blow.  Regionalisation doesn't increase crowds.  You just have a State League with a fancy name.  Pro/Rel was fully politicised and just didn't work.  St George did recover when put back in the NSW State League and promptly entertained larger attendances than they had enjoyed in the NSL.  Weird but true.  Sydney City dropped out of the League after it became national again because they said it was sending them broke.

Summer vs Winter:
Channel 9 had changed cricket forever.  The same people were asked to look at Australian Soccer and they came up with a bunch of changes that were deemed necessary to get the game on television ( the big money). In 1989 we transitioned straight from winter to summer.  Plenty of football that year.  The pitches were better and the crowds started to improve.
First GF was 26.000 odd with Sydney Olympic vs Marconi.  New record crowd.
Crowds actually rose (rocketed) from 500,000 total with an average of 3000 to a new total of 1.5 million average of 5000.
The ABC started broadcasting the games.
It was about this time that a couple of players declared that they would become full time professional players.  Mark Jankovic and Eddie Krncevic? Peter Sharne? So there was some money at the clubs that were willing to pay a living wage to a few of their top signings.
So the game was going busters right?  The ASF meanwhile ran a critical loss of $690k.  Not a happy bottom line and one that risked the National Team and somewhat obviously any investment at all at any level of the game.

Summary:  Summer improved crowds, attracted television and improved finances locally, but not for the ASF.  The game was played on better pitches but afternoon games were sometimes testing player and spectator comfort.  Spectators generally enjoyed the late summer evening games more than the drizzly freezing winter alternative played in a bog.

Soldiering on with it until everybody went broke:
Over the next 10 years the game became massively financed in Europe and suddenly there was a lucrative path for players to have a high paid career - as long as they were happy to pack their bags and move offshore for a decade.  The "stars" left the local game.  They did however improve as players and this rapidly improved the prospects of the National Team.  The problem remained that the ASF was perennially broke and couldn't afford to arrange quality travel, accommodation, or wages when it called on their rising stars for representative duty.  It wasn't that great for the players either. Easier to play for say, Italy if you had a dual passport.  The NSL was part-time, under-funded and run along political lines closely associated with a couple of "larger" clubs and to a degree, the State they came from. 

It was clear that the Clubs based on ethnic followings couldn't afford to field fully professional teams, because their base crowd and interest, already insufficient, was falling as the years passed.  Attempts had to be made to attract a broader base of supporters identifying with locality rather than ethnicity.  (Whoa! This was 1950 all over again.  I digress.)
Suddenly the stage was set for Carlton and Perth Glory and Northern Spirit.  It worked and it didn't. David Hill pushed it forward.  The game had to go forward to escape the awful spectre of Senate inquiries into possible corruption at the ASF and its National Team setup that had just happened.  It looked rosy until the debacle against Iran at the MCG.  Dead man walking after that as Hill had emptied the piggy bank desperate to get Oz to the world cup.  Peter Hoare eh?  But what are you gonna do?  ASF dead and buried and the old chums stepped back up and took all the seats.

The ASF was down and out but those wonderful traditional teams playing out of boutique stadiums, with low cost structures, would hold up well. Right?
Between 2001-2003 the aggregate losses of the NSL clubs was (wait for it................) in excess of $52 million!  (Source: A History of Football in Australia).

Summary:  The NSL started brightly with great ambition.  It was torn apart by selfish interest groups, regional prejudice and chronic under-funding.  It wasn't an attractive proposition to gain the investment it desperately needed from television, sponsorship, or gate receipts.  Licensed Clubs particularly in NSW kept much of it going until even those Clubs actually started to fold under the burden of their Football teams.  In some cases it was lose the Football or the Club.

It wasn't put down by mysterious dark powers, racists, or the Illuminati.  It just wasn't a competition attractive to money.  It needed investment to make itself pretty enough to earn that money.
Not a lot of people with that sort of investment power were willing to pour it into a product that had no vision of what it would look like after the money was consumed.

It was dieing and it could not be revived.  Recite the Dead Parrot sketch and insert NSL instead of parrot and you can summarise where it ended.

Something new was tried and remarkably, despite the visionaries forecasts, has lasted more than 3 years.

THE NSL IS DEAD AND IT IS NEVER COMING BACK. 

Look forward.  The view is better. Not great.  Better.















The other zombie to destroy is the notion that 1 or any ethnic teams entering the AL would turn it into NSL.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Brilliant mate ... the last line is a killer....
Edited
5 Years Ago by Midfielder
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Waz - 7 May 2020 8:10 PM
Davstar - 7 May 2020 7:10 PM

The NSL was a basket case competition imo and the reason I posted that reply to your comment was your comment to the effect “the NSL had more integrity as a football competition”. Well it just didn’t, and we tend to romanticise about it more and more as time passes but man, it shifted from winter to summer, had conferences, weird play off systems for finals, had 4 points for a win, awarded 1 point for a loss, outlawed draws and replaced them with penalty shootouts, it had clubs fold at an alarming rate, and maybe the only consistent thing about the NSL was its inconsistency .... maybe the worst crime of all against football was the fact it called itself “soccer”, ugh. 

There’s nothing there to go back to, other than a romantic disfiguration of a bastard-child competition. Well meant but trying too hard to “fit Australia” and not follow the football world - it was a mini-version of what the USA was trying to do to the beautiful game. 

In fact, the NSL set Lowy and his cohorts up nicely to do the odd things the A-League still has - the uneven draw for example. 

Not an attack in you, nor the NSL which we should all be proud of for what it was. But my memory of that Comp is not something I’d want to see is aspire too in the future. Let it go. 

Let's try to blow the head off the NSL zombie because it just keeps trying to get out of the grave.

Conferences: In 1984 the competition split into 2 "regions".  It held the benefit of expanding the competition, allowing the two big drawing Croatian teams to join and the introduction of regional pro/rel (with a couple of clubs "quarantined").   The benefit was that with the expansion and regionalisation the crowds would increase.  (Think more derbys).  Result was that crowds dropped to an average of 2000 and they didn't recover until the conferences died in in '87.  

Summary:  Conferences blow.  Regionalisation doesn't increase crowds.  You just have a State League with a fancy name.  Pro/Rel was fully politicised and just didn't work.  St George did recover when put back in the NSW State League and promptly entertained larger attendances than they had enjoyed in the NSL.  Weird but true.  Sydney City dropped out of the League after it became national again because they said it was sending them broke.

Summer vs Winter:
Channel 9 had changed cricket forever.  The same people were asked to look at Australian Soccer and they came up with a bunch of changes that were deemed necessary to get the game on television ( the big money). In 1989 we transitioned straight from winter to summer.  Plenty of football that year.  The pitches were better and the crowds started to improve.
First GF was 26.000 odd with Sydney Olympic vs Marconi.  New record crowd.
Crowds actually rose (rocketed) from 500,000 total with an average of 3000 to a new total of 1.5 million average of 5000.
The ABC started broadcasting the games.
It was about this time that a couple of players declared that they would become full time professional players.  Mark Jankovic and Eddie Krncevic? Peter Sharne? So there was some money at the clubs that were willing to pay a living wage to a few of their top signings.
So the game was going busters right?  The ASF meanwhile ran a critical loss of $690k.  Not a happy bottom line and one that risked the National Team and somewhat obviously any investment at all at any level of the game.

Summary:  Summer improved crowds, attracted television and improved finances locally, but not for the ASF.  The game was played on better pitches but afternoon games were sometimes testing player and spectator comfort.  Spectators generally enjoyed the late summer evening games more than the drizzly freezing winter alternative played in a bog.

Soldiering on with it until everybody went broke:
Over the next 10 years the game became massively financed in Europe and suddenly there was a lucrative path for players to have a high paid career - as long as they were happy to pack their bags and move offshore for a decade.  The "stars" left the local game.  They did however improve as players and this rapidly improved the prospects of the National Team.  The problem remained that the ASF was perennially broke and couldn't afford to arrange quality travel, accommodation, or wages when it called on their rising stars for representative duty.  It wasn't that great for the players either. Easier to play for say, Italy if you had a dual passport.  The NSL was part-time, under-funded and run along political lines closely associated with a couple of "larger" clubs and to a degree, the State they came from. 

It was clear that the Clubs based on ethnic followings couldn't afford to field fully professional teams, because their base crowd and interest, already insufficient, was falling as the years passed.  Attempts had to be made to attract a broader base of supporters identifying with locality rather than ethnicity.  (Whoa! This was 1950 all over again.  I digress.)
Suddenly the stage was set for Carlton and Perth Glory and Northern Spirit.  It worked and it didn't. David Hill pushed it forward.  The game had to go forward to escape the awful spectre of Senate inquiries into possible corruption at the ASF and its National Team setup that had just happened.  It looked rosy until the debacle against Iran at the MCG.  Dead man walking after that as Hill had emptied the piggy bank desperate to get Oz to the world cup.  Peter Hoare eh?  But what are you gonna do?  ASF dead and buried and the old chums stepped back up and took all the seats.

The ASF was down and out but those wonderful traditional teams playing out of boutique stadiums, with low cost structures, would hold up well. Right?
Between 2001-2003 the aggregate losses of the NSL clubs was (wait for it................) in excess of $52 million!  (Source: A History of Football in Australia).

Summary:  The NSL started brightly with great ambition.  It was torn apart by selfish interest groups, regional prejudice and chronic under-funding.  It wasn't an attractive proposition to gain the investment it desperately needed from television, sponsorship, or gate receipts.  Licensed Clubs particularly in NSW kept much of it going until even those Clubs actually started to fold under the burden of their Football teams.  In some cases it was lose the Football or the Club.

It wasn't put down by mysterious dark powers, racists, or the Illuminati.  It just wasn't a competition attractive to money.  It needed investment to make itself pretty enough to earn that money.
Not a lot of people with that sort of investment power were willing to pour it into a product that had no vision of what it would look like after the money was consumed.

It was dieing and it could not be revived.  Recite the Dead Parrot sketch and insert NSL instead of parrot and you can summarise where it ended.

Something new was tried and remarkably, despite the visionaries forecasts, has lasted more than 3 years.

THE NSL IS DEAD AND IT IS NEVER COMING BACK. 

Look forward.  The view is better. Not great.  Better.















Edited
5 Years Ago by SWandP
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And for that, libel, we can thank the Loweys and Gallop, no one else. 

GO


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