all and good saying that and I agree they have done pretty good to date but one of the points discussed is having X factor player/s that you have to agree we've lacked for sometime.
Cahill, we may have had no chance during a NT game to control possesion or even get many chances in the final 3rd BUT he plucked it out of the air how many times, he was X factor, won games when it looked as if we had no hope.
Jamie has banged it this past season here, sensational but having left BR in 2017 not much to talk about went into a lull.
Taggert has done pretty damn good since his PG days and a good score rate but talking NT no one has come near to what Cahill plucked out of his pocket.
Thats one of the points of discussion - freedom, let a player with the ability to express himself etcetc....

Jeez I wish I had players that could achieve 1/2 of what McClaren and Taggert have in their careers. 

the assumption is that in Brazil futsal is played until 12 before even football is played HTH

English FA have pulled out of Futsal altogether today

and its all because of futsal...who knew....

Maybe its a function that Brazilians are cheap because their local leagues pay so poorly...so they travel more.

The Spanish must be crap using the same international comparisons

Once again a little to simple Dirk - you need to challenge your assumptions a bit more. 

players able to use all parts of the foot players become 2 footed due to lack of time
 improvisation due to lack of space and time
diamonds and triangles come naturallyall players behind the ball when oppo kick in target cuts  out switch of play just like a number 9 does to channel play
defending on corners is zonal is simple to learn l, can use zonal on 11 aside
movement of target off the ball equal movemnt off the ball for no 9 futsal
rotation of positions is also used in 11 aside
goalkeeper able to drop onto one knee to stop shots used in 1v1 in 11 aside
oncepts of pressing easy to explain in futsal , can be used outdoors
concepts of dropping ie half court press like mid block in outdoor
conecpt of counter attack sfter oppo corner similar to 11 aisde
running with ball on counter just like 11 aisde

futsal similar to the dutch method of breaking down 11 aside game into smaller chunks ie 4 v 4 etc

futsal is great

1200 brazilians playing football in overseas leagues


Nationalities 2018-2019 Champions League

Rk	Nation	# Players
1	es Spain	70
2	br Brazil	65
3	fr France	63
4	de Germany	55

I keep thinking back to the 2013 (?) U20 World Cup.

Craig Foster was waxing lyrical about how Australia performed. He seemed to think it was the best Australian youth side in ages. He argued that, even though they didn't get results, style-wise they matched European and South American teams. It was an exceedingly proactive style of play with Australia having stacks of possession. The passing and movement were great (and I agreed). They were breaking through opposition lines and moving the ball around fast. I agreed that, stylistically, it looked so much better.

But nobody showed much inclination to take on defenders on their own. It was as if nobody had the combination of technical skill and speed. Nobody wanted to try. There were some outstanding goals from distance from Josh Brilliante and Daniel de Silva (iirc). But again, nobody demonstrated the ability to take on defenders effectively, thereby getting nearer to the goal on their own, and then either unleashing or playing the ball through to an unmarked teammate in a good position.

And it was like - they can execute a plan beautifully, keep possession and move it around (for the most part) effectively. But if the wingers and strikers don't have individual ability, that's going to make it very difficult for them to succeed in Europe. I think Adam Taggart and Jamie Maclaren were in that side. Unfortunately, they've seldom demonstrated the ability to make something out of nothing, imo.

In terms of those kind of x-factor players, we looked as if we'd gone backwards.

Using the most extreme of examples, even Pep Guardiola prefers to have an Arjen Robben, Leo Messi, etc.. He wants his sides playing a particular proactive brand of football. But he wants guys in his side who can create scoring opportunities on their own. And for that, 1 vs 1 ability, speed, agility and confidence are needed. I fear that we focus too much on only specific aspects of Pep's success.

As regards hoping for players with great 1 vs 1 skill and shooting ability... They can be produced by fluke now and then. But if you want an actual system, you need:

• The best athletes in the country playing the sport. Top strikers and wingers are typically fast and agile (because they operate in less confined areas). Technique alone isn't usually enough. All of Cristiano Ronaldo, Thierry Henry, Arjen Robben, Kaka, Gareth Bale, Julian Draxler are/were fast and agile. Imagine if Australia had the likes of Cyril Rioli (AFL), Patty Mills (NBA), Eddie Betts (AFL), Alex de Minaur (tennis), Lachlan Murphy (AFL) or Jack Crisp (AFL) growing up playing football? Granted, de Minaur probably did.
• Well-educated coaches and a relatively high ratio for coaches-players
• Those coaches allowing these footballers to practise 1 vs 1 and shooting a lot in training (even match situations), despite tactical naivete and/or failure. Players mustn't be scared of failure or being told off. There needs to be plenty of opportunity to practise freely lest the aggressiveness and individualism be coached out of the footballer.
• Pathways, pathways, pathways in a competitive environment (as you say Arthur)
• More time actually practising and playing. Contrast European youth football schedules with Australian.
• Widespread and popular street/cage football. Again, contrast Europe with Australia

oh agreed mate wholeheartedly about siloing the lot - the flak goes back to the Clubs for where else can people vent......
Its a crying shame.
I hear you, happy to pay for the right coaching and dev, done it as well and like all we invest alot of our time and passion (no matter how much its broken I've also sponsered for a number of years happily to the Clubs we've been involved) it hurts to keep seeing where its all at....
IF the top can't see to correct our system/s top to bottom will be same ol same ol......

While I understand the fees issue, it comes back to what I say about siloing clubs.
NPL Clubs are required to provide x, y, z there is a cost. But the blame game goes back onto Clubs when is an FFA and MF construct.
The SAP program is regulated and approved by FFA and MF’s Licensed or a requirement for NPL Clubs.
Again the Clubs will be blamed.
The parents are happy to pay well for the right coaches and development.  Know I did.
So what’s lacking is flexibility to be Innovative, to drive down costs because. But you cannot because the Club is regulated as to what it can and cannot do, and where it’s located in the football pyramid.
As an FYI in Victoria the Junior Licence fee works out to $280 per kid so you’re on the back foot from the start.

here here above !

Variety is the spice of life as they say.
Same applies in sport and in our game a team is made up of individual talents working together and applying a style that gets the best out of what you have.
Farina's comment re robots is aptly correct that today all are taught to play the possesion theory but where's the X factors, we've cleansed them out of the game with the exception/s like Arzarni.
I'm no coach by all means and love seeing Arthur's quickflicks inputs to name a few.
We lack conviction.
Everyone is a winner at Jnr levels. No there is always a winner and a loser, its a bloody game to win not to walk off that its all equal.
Zoltan made a good point also about the countless sideline parent experts, so many have no idea, their poor Johnny isn't getting enough game time, well he needs to improve darling, and no the Ronaldo or Messi in your team isn't a hog he's a talented player !
Rep level Clubs obligations to have crowd marshalls, for the trouble makers I agree but you can't even barrack for your team without feeling frowned on or worse don't encourage your kid or good play.
Like wtf.

Arthur - below from your post last night :

"The current football model we have doesn’t do us any favors, a first division that is isolated from the rest of the game focused more on ROI and profit therefore the focus is entertainment rather than being a club seeking glory and serving your supporters.
A second tier (NPL) that is designed and purposed to develop the next generation of AL players and Socceroos but not develop Clubs, all at no cost to the AL or the FFA.
Then community clubs cut off from the rest of the game again to care for the masses.
I think once you tell clubs this is your job this your destiny they become siloed never to break free to be the best, or worst, they can be.
Add to the mix a uniform coaching approach from the NC and there is a sameness in approach. No innovation no differentiation by clubs to develop their own Curriculum identity or purpose (as happens in nations with strong football culture). Their only purpose is fulfil the role designated to them.

So from my viewpoint unless we connect the pyramid, empower Clubs, allow them to innovate, creating more bigger financially strong clubs, have a transfer system, focus on football Realestate, Education Investment for coaches players parents administrators referees.
I can’t see how we will develop the players like a Ronaldo, though I’d be happy with a De Bruyne of our own!
Which really is a football free market system, compared to our current highly regulated one."

Nothing is linked as it should be for the enhancement/pathways of future players but ongoing stumbling blocks.
Fees fees fees might I add, all our clubs are doing is sap as much blood from paying parents they possibly can, not for the long term as you mention might I add just for the now.

Agree Arthur....its a wasteland for most 17-21 year olds unless you are top 3 in Australia...

If we can become more confident, try new things, change our mindset then maybe the vibe around the A-league, NPL and a NSD would actually mean people would be interested and start paying money..

We almost need to do the opposite of the rest of the world. We are just playing follow the leader so we are perpetually 2 years behind the more advanced nations. 

I will add to your comments Zoltan, we lack destinations. Lots of pathways for the kids that result in dead ends.

We are pretty much in agreement then.

The disparity goes back to not having a universal structure.

If all clubs did everything to develop a player the same way, would that work?

And here’s the issue, clubs should be free to develop players that fit into their football culture.

If they want to develop a bigger no. 9 to hit balls to, then so be it. They will need wingers too and midfielders with long passing range. So that’s what they’ll do.

If a club wants to have Futsal in their curriculum as they believe that it will develop players with a short passing game and insight then so be it.

In the end players in Europe and South America select players based on their form and performance for their club.
Not because they are in a development pathway.

Again I think we are trying to come up with all these band aid solutions - throwing 10 of them up in the air as some kind of silver bullet and hope that one of them sticks. Futsal can be replicated (and does) with small sided games. 

All of the above is too hard....

I prefer an easier method. There is nothing wrong with our structure, our players, our skill level, our tactical acumen.

The only problem (and its the same for very asian football nation) is MENTAL...

We are mentally immature

Spend more time convincing ourselves we are just as good as anyone. This thread is an example of our insecurities - always looking to see what Brazil or Germany does....that is a never ending mind screw...if I hear another person say 'its different in Europe'...

Lets act like the rich and smart country we are and spend our focus on the athletic brain and become smarter and more confident footballers...most of this is a quick fix...

Decent post Waz.

The reason I mentioned futsal is because there isn't enough unstructured/ free play going around the game in Oz these days.

And alot of people mention futsal is a modern substitute for street football not just here.

You mention about the bad habits in futsal, it doesnt harm the players in South America especially in Brazil where some of the worlds greatest players played futsal at a young age before they joined at elite team.

There are clips I think on YouTube of Ronaldinho, Neymar playing futsal as 7 or 8 year olds and they haven't changed in their style as players ;)

Spain and Japan are decent components of it too, De Gea's goalkeeping technique has some traits from his futsal days as a kid.

The two greatest players in the modern era in Messi and C Ronaldo also payed tribute to their futsal roots.

Japan are big on futsal due to their large Brazilian influence they got over there.

If im not correct the late Johnny Warren was a big fan of it too and was disappointed the lack of attention futsal got at player development circles.

Unfortunately (imo) Futsall is not the answer and, to a certain extent, is contributing to the problems in player quality that we have. 

To develop better individual technique, creativity and strong 1v1 play get every kid that is playing football from the ages of 5-12 whether it’s grassroots or SAP into futsal and watch the improvement.

The modern successor to street football is futsal but it’s under utilised in Australia, the likes of Rogic, Arzani were big components of it when they were young. 

Arthur

I agree with basically all of that (especially the structures of a second-tier, empowered football clubs and far better investment in coaching).

But even with all that, if you don't develop 1 vs 1 footballers, you're going to struggle in the final third. I'd argue that 1 vs 1 players actually enhance the style of football to which you subscribe. If a team has, say two attacking footballers who have lethal 1 vs 1 skill, the opposition is forced to respect them that much more. It's two more things for the opposition to worry about. It's two extra strings to the team's bow. That means even more time and space for a Kevin De Bruyne-type player to weave his magic.

And if footballers are told off for trying and failing in their 1 vs 1 attempts, they probably won't succeed. They will be scared to try again the next time. Failure is a reality. They will encounter failure before they succeed. They just need to keep trying. Only through failure can you arrive at success.

So if we had our own Ronaldo or our own Messi we would have done what exactly?
Having these players doesn’t guarantee the ultimate success at World Cup level, as Portugal and Argentina have found.
They even have better midfielders and defenders to supply them.
Not saying it wouldn’t be nice to have these players in our NT that’s for sure.

But is it enough to have these type of players? To win a World Cup.

Are we chasing the Holy Grail or a poisoned Chalice?

Yep. Apart from Jedinak penalty kick, did Socceroos even get 1 shot on target against France??! Even Denmark i only remember Arzani, Leckie and Rogic having decent shots on target saved by keeper. Peru was only Rogic on target but saved by keeper again. Our ‘strikers’ Nabbout and Juric did close to nothing. Old Cahill did more to threaten goal in 30 minutes against Peru than other strikers combined in all games 🙁

one issue i see is that Players and parents of young players only see being selected for State as the pinnacle of their career and arent interested in making the sacrifice to go further, probably due to the middle class attitudes of the parents

Agreed. But some positions more than others. Case in point, how the NT played against France.

Defensively very solid and midfield did well. But what of the final third? Appalling. Toothless in terms of individual ability and innocuous finishing. What's missing more than anything is the Arzani-type of footballer.

Australian football is very bottom-heavy. Nevertheless, I agree with you that Australia needs improvement everywhere and in all facets.

Australia needs improvement in every position at the very level. Technically and tactically.

You’re right about comments and assessments about youth players holding on to the ball too long. 

The best place to start is with ourselves

What prejudice do we hold about certain players or styles of play. 

The most common thing I hear these days, mostly from people who know very little, is 'he hold on to the ball too long'.......and then people look at each other knowingly like they know the key to football success...

So as Moembarts says - lets celebrate the creative, lets celebrate the individuals.....not just talk in hushed tones about 'not being a team player'...

RESPECT THE INDIVIDUAL.....

The problem is that the coach's ego is at stake.....as well as other players who aren't as creative or talented....

So the talented individual is in a tough place unless they receive support

I don't think that's always the case, though. I was in the Netherlands for 3-4 months in 2018. Kids played street football and cage football for hours after school and on weekends.

Often, kids just have fun with the ball at their feet and try out different things. If they attempt to dribble a couple of opponents, now and then, their teammates won't (or shouldn't) have a tantrum if they lose the ball. Sure, there are also more competitive street football games in which teammates might get a bit fed up if another teammate ALWAYS tries to take everyone on and often loses the ball. But it's really a question of balance.

How do we learn to do something well? We learn by failure. For 99.99% of people, we try and fail. We keep trying until we succeed. True mastery is the person trying until they basically can't fail.

If you want to try to take on an opponent, 1 vs 1, chances are you'll fail in the early days. Same with if you progress to trying to take on two or three opponents. But it's necessary to experience that failure and to learn how to do it. To that end, we need to allow failure. Now and then, a footballer like Daniel Arzani comes along and it makes everybody sit up. Do you really think guys like that had tactical awareness at the back of their mind (let alone the forefront of their mind) for every single 1 vs 1 duel they attempted as kids?

Is it more feasible to allow an Arzani type footballer to develop their individual skills with freedom and then to encourage them to refine their 1 vs 1 with greater consideration of situational awareness?  Or, from Day 1, to try to get an Arzani-type footballer to ensure that they are only attempting a 1 vs 1 in exclusively tactically-suitable scenarios?

Does Australian football need more Arzani-type footballers? Or more midfielders who can pass well, can execute a plan but who lack that x-factor?

I think we have the pool or quantity, what we probably need to focus on is the quality.
So yes a deeper pool of talent.
How can that happen?
First of all coaching plays a significant role and secondly parents play a role. Some how we have to educate both, firstly in my opinion is help the kids just love the game. Then let’s work on all the skills and tactical knowledge they will need to further their love of the game.
To see so many kids from the age cohorts of 1996 to 2002 borns not only give the game away but actually have no more love or interest is depressing 

Even in street football if you want to dribble one two or three players you better beat the opponents cause if you don’t the dribblers team mates will give him hell for not looking up to see the opportunities to score a simple goal.