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Zoltan
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+x+x+x+x+x+xBit harsh Frank. The A league was started to develop local talent. The NT have qualified for every Wcup since 2006. Won the ACup in 2015. Quality players such as Maty Ryan, Mooy, Rogic, Sainsbury, Milligan (despite criticism he played damn well at Wcup 2018!) , Rhyan Grant, Mabil, Risdon, Arzani, Leckie etc etc - they all developed via the A league. Most of NT success has involved Tim Cahill scoring amazing goals- freakish player- hard to replace obviously. Saying the ‘NT now resembles nothing’ is out of order. The ironic part of this is the young talent coming from the 2000s and up have all benefited from the programs implemented from the FFA and state feds that included the NC aka 'dutch 433' and SAP programs a decade ago are now some of the best young talent coming through in the aleague perhaps ever since its inception. Technically they are more advanced in all the things they do and unlike of the current senior players struffing around who still struggle to the do the basics at times. Arnie has said that the players in Aus underage squads that he has recently seen can do technical things rarely seen in Australian players of the past. Im sure you would be pretty familiar with it and the processes which were put in place Decentric, agree with Arnie even though he can be a tad over the top with his comments at times! Its interesting watching the u17 side that played at the World Cup last year, they did many things which often in the past Oz teams would have struggle with in a technical standpoint. But having the technical foundation isn't enough, you need all facets to become a top player so it will be interesting if any of these players will develop all 4 facets to their game (technical, tactical, physical and mental) especially the last two. This could be a false attribution, I would say technical ability is improving all around the world at the same rate.
One word “YouTube' Im talking about our problems and our deficiencies. What goes around the world should not be a concern as we have our own unique problems. I.e you cant copy the Brazilian football street culture or the strict robust European system The truth is somewhere out there
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AJF
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xBit harsh Frank. The A league was started to develop local talent. The NT have qualified for every Wcup since 2006. Won the ACup in 2015. Quality players such as Maty Ryan, Mooy, Rogic, Sainsbury, Milligan (despite criticism he played damn well at Wcup 2018!) , Rhyan Grant, Mabil, Risdon, Arzani, Leckie etc etc - they all developed via the A league. Most of NT success has involved Tim Cahill scoring amazing goals- freakish player- hard to replace obviously. Saying the ‘NT now resembles nothing’ is out of order. The ironic part of this is the young talent coming from the 2000s and up have all benefited from the programs implemented from the FFA and state feds that included the NC aka 'dutch 433' and SAP programs a decade ago are now some of the best young talent coming through in the aleague perhaps ever since its inception. Technically they are more advanced in all the things they do and unlike of the current senior players struffing around who still struggle to the do the basics at times. Arnie has said that the players in Aus underage squads that he has recently seen can do technical things rarely seen in Australian players of the past. Im sure you would be pretty familiar with it and the processes which were put in place Decentric, agree with Arnie even though he can be a tad over the top with his comments at times! Its interesting watching the u17 side that played at the World Cup last year, they did many things which often in the past Oz teams would have struggle with in a technical standpoint. But having the technical foundation isn't enough, you need all facets to become a top player so it will be interesting if any of these players will develop all 4 facets to their game (technical, tactical, physical and mental) especially the last two. This could be a false attribution, I would say technical ability is improving all around the world at the same rate.
One word “youtube’ 100% agree, the world has developed further than us since the NSL and thats why there are only 2 Australian players in top leagues now. You will hear all the various excuses (like there were no Africans playing then) and these are all BS used to justify the piss poor state of our development. No - African players is a huge reason along with various others Love that myth, read the below wiki for the EPL. There were more Cameroonians playing in the EPL in to 2000's than now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_Premier_League_players
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JonoMV
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He's right, worded poorly though. Hopefully in 2022 we will have our first player who began their career in the A League score a goal at the World Cup.
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Zoltan
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xBit harsh Frank. The A league was started to develop local talent. The NT have qualified for every Wcup since 2006. Won the ACup in 2015. Quality players such as Maty Ryan, Mooy, Rogic, Sainsbury, Milligan (despite criticism he played damn well at Wcup 2018!) , Rhyan Grant, Mabil, Risdon, Arzani, Leckie etc etc - they all developed via the A league. Most of NT success has involved Tim Cahill scoring amazing goals- freakish player- hard to replace obviously. Saying the ‘NT now resembles nothing’ is out of order. The ironic part of this is the young talent coming from the 2000s and up have all benefited from the programs implemented from the FFA and state feds that included the NC aka 'dutch 433' and SAP programs a decade ago are now some of the best young talent coming through in the aleague perhaps ever since its inception. Technically they are more advanced in all the things they do and unlike of the current senior players struffing around who still struggle to the do the basics at times. Arnie has said that the players in Aus underage squads that he has recently seen can do technical things rarely seen in Australian players of the past. Im sure you would be pretty familiar with it and the processes which were put in place Decentric, agree with Arnie even though he can be a tad over the top with his comments at times! Its interesting watching the u17 side that played at the World Cup last year, they did many things which often in the past Oz teams would have struggle with in a technical standpoint. But having the technical foundation isn't enough, you need all facets to become a top player so it will be interesting if any of these players will develop all 4 facets to their game (technical, tactical, physical and mental) especially the last two. This could be a false attribution, I would say technical ability is improving all around the world at the same rate.
One word “youtube’ 100% agree, the world has developed further than us since the NSL and thats why there are only 2 Australian players in top leagues now. You will hear all the various excuses (like there were no Africans playing then) and these are all BS used to justify the piss poor state of our development. No - African players is a huge reason along with various others Love that myth, read the below wiki for the EPL. There were more Cameroonians playing in the EPL in to 2000's than now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_Premier_League_players Thats called selective interpretation. 1 country ... Look at any European national team from 20 years ago and now....France, England, Holland, Belgium, Germany...
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Barca4Life
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xBit harsh Frank. The A league was started to develop local talent. The NT have qualified for every Wcup since 2006. Won the ACup in 2015. Quality players such as Maty Ryan, Mooy, Rogic, Sainsbury, Milligan (despite criticism he played damn well at Wcup 2018!) , Rhyan Grant, Mabil, Risdon, Arzani, Leckie etc etc - they all developed via the A league. Most of NT success has involved Tim Cahill scoring amazing goals- freakish player- hard to replace obviously. Saying the ‘NT now resembles nothing’ is out of order. The ironic part of this is the young talent coming from the 2000s and up have all benefited from the programs implemented from the FFA and state feds that included the NC aka 'dutch 433' and SAP programs a decade ago are now some of the best young talent coming through in the aleague perhaps ever since its inception. Technically they are more advanced in all the things they do and unlike of the current senior players struffing around who still struggle to the do the basics at times. Arnie has said that the players in Aus underage squads that he has recently seen can do technical things rarely seen in Australian players of the past. Im sure you would be pretty familiar with it and the processes which were put in place Decentric, agree with Arnie even though he can be a tad over the top with his comments at times! Its interesting watching the u17 side that played at the World Cup last year, they did many things which often in the past Oz teams would have struggle with in a technical standpoint. But having the technical foundation isn't enough, you need all facets to become a top player so it will be interesting if any of these players will develop all 4 facets to their game (technical, tactical, physical and mental) especially the last two. This could be a false attribution, I would say technical ability is improving all around the world at the same rate.
One word “YouTube' Im talking about our problems and our deficiencies. What goes around the world should not be a concern as we have our own unique problems. I.e you cant copy the Brazilian football street culture or the strict robust European system The truth is somewhere out there What truth exactly? Because in football mad countries where they play year round have better technique than the Australian players? This is not a new thing, previously the standard Australian player is not known for its technique but for physically/fitness and mental strength to never give up. Now you can say the roles are reserved in trying to compete against these countries whilst losing what Australian players were known for back in the day.
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Heart_fan
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Let’s not also disregard the fact that each country will have peaks and troughs, and look for new ways to keep up with the competition. There is no one size fits all strategy that generates success. Each country has a GG that comes through, which makes people look at them and want to analyse what’s going on to produce that outcome.
Some have pointed to a few players now coming from Canada, but it’s hard to assess whether those are just the outliers or whether their system is building these outcomes for the future. Time will tell.
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Zoltan
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xBit harsh Frank. The A league was started to develop local talent. The NT have qualified for every Wcup since 2006. Won the ACup in 2015. Quality players such as Maty Ryan, Mooy, Rogic, Sainsbury, Milligan (despite criticism he played damn well at Wcup 2018!) , Rhyan Grant, Mabil, Risdon, Arzani, Leckie etc etc - they all developed via the A league. Most of NT success has involved Tim Cahill scoring amazing goals- freakish player- hard to replace obviously. Saying the ‘NT now resembles nothing’ is out of order. The ironic part of this is the young talent coming from the 2000s and up have all benefited from the programs implemented from the FFA and state feds that included the NC aka 'dutch 433' and SAP programs a decade ago are now some of the best young talent coming through in the aleague perhaps ever since its inception. Technically they are more advanced in all the things they do and unlike of the current senior players struffing around who still struggle to the do the basics at times. Arnie has said that the players in Aus underage squads that he has recently seen can do technical things rarely seen in Australian players of the past. Im sure you would be pretty familiar with it and the processes which were put in place Decentric, agree with Arnie even though he can be a tad over the top with his comments at times! Its interesting watching the u17 side that played at the World Cup last year, they did many things which often in the past Oz teams would have struggle with in a technical standpoint. But having the technical foundation isn't enough, you need all facets to become a top player so it will be interesting if any of these players will develop all 4 facets to their game (technical, tactical, physical and mental) especially the last two. This could be a false attribution, I would say technical ability is improving all around the world at the same rate.
One word “YouTube' Im talking about our problems and our deficiencies. What goes around the world should not be a concern as we have our own unique problems. I.e you cant copy the Brazilian football street culture or the strict robust European system The truth is somewhere out there What truth exactly? Because in football mad countries where they play year round have better technique than the Australian players? This is not a new thing, previously the standard Australian player is not known for its technique but for physically/fitness and mental strength to never give up. Now you can say the roles are reserved in trying to compete against these countries whilst losing what Australian players were known for back in the day. Im with the Melbourne City coach - technique is not our problem. Its mental...
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Heart_fan
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xBit harsh Frank. The A league was started to develop local talent. The NT have qualified for every Wcup since 2006. Won the ACup in 2015. Quality players such as Maty Ryan, Mooy, Rogic, Sainsbury, Milligan (despite criticism he played damn well at Wcup 2018!) , Rhyan Grant, Mabil, Risdon, Arzani, Leckie etc etc - they all developed via the A league. Most of NT success has involved Tim Cahill scoring amazing goals- freakish player- hard to replace obviously. Saying the ‘NT now resembles nothing’ is out of order. The ironic part of this is the young talent coming from the 2000s and up have all benefited from the programs implemented from the FFA and state feds that included the NC aka 'dutch 433' and SAP programs a decade ago are now some of the best young talent coming through in the aleague perhaps ever since its inception. Technically they are more advanced in all the things they do and unlike of the current senior players struffing around who still struggle to the do the basics at times. Arnie has said that the players in Aus underage squads that he has recently seen can do technical things rarely seen in Australian players of the past. Im sure you would be pretty familiar with it and the processes which were put in place Decentric, agree with Arnie even though he can be a tad over the top with his comments at times! Its interesting watching the u17 side that played at the World Cup last year, they did many things which often in the past Oz teams would have struggle with in a technical standpoint. But having the technical foundation isn't enough, you need all facets to become a top player so it will be interesting if any of these players will develop all 4 facets to their game (technical, tactical, physical and mental) especially the last two. This could be a false attribution, I would say technical ability is improving all around the world at the same rate.
One word “YouTube' Im talking about our problems and our deficiencies. What goes around the world should not be a concern as we have our own unique problems. I.e you cant copy the Brazilian football street culture or the strict robust European system The truth is somewhere out there What truth exactly? Because in football mad countries where they play year round have better technique than the Australian players? This is not a new thing, previously the standard Australian player is not known for its technique but for physically/fitness and mental strength to never give up. Now you can say the roles are reserved in trying to compete against these countries whilst losing what Australian players were known for back in the day. Im with the Melbourne City coach - technique is not our problem. Its mental... Tend to agree. His comments certainly seemed to be closer to the reality than many have previously tried to pinpoint
City were a fragile bunch each year, falling apart at key moments. He saw that the players didn’t have the right mentality he wanted to see and worked very hard to turn that around. Hopefully he has now engrained that into PK to continue to instill this in players.
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AJF
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xBit harsh Frank. The A league was started to develop local talent. The NT have qualified for every Wcup since 2006. Won the ACup in 2015. Quality players such as Maty Ryan, Mooy, Rogic, Sainsbury, Milligan (despite criticism he played damn well at Wcup 2018!) , Rhyan Grant, Mabil, Risdon, Arzani, Leckie etc etc - they all developed via the A league. Most of NT success has involved Tim Cahill scoring amazing goals- freakish player- hard to replace obviously. Saying the ‘NT now resembles nothing’ is out of order. The ironic part of this is the young talent coming from the 2000s and up have all benefited from the programs implemented from the FFA and state feds that included the NC aka 'dutch 433' and SAP programs a decade ago are now some of the best young talent coming through in the aleague perhaps ever since its inception. Technically they are more advanced in all the things they do and unlike of the current senior players struffing around who still struggle to the do the basics at times. Arnie has said that the players in Aus underage squads that he has recently seen can do technical things rarely seen in Australian players of the past. Im sure you would be pretty familiar with it and the processes which were put in place Decentric, agree with Arnie even though he can be a tad over the top with his comments at times! Its interesting watching the u17 side that played at the World Cup last year, they did many things which often in the past Oz teams would have struggle with in a technical standpoint. But having the technical foundation isn't enough, you need all facets to become a top player so it will be interesting if any of these players will develop all 4 facets to their game (technical, tactical, physical and mental) especially the last two. This could be a false attribution, I would say technical ability is improving all around the world at the same rate.
One word “youtube’ 100% agree, the world has developed further than us since the NSL and thats why there are only 2 Australian players in top leagues now. You will hear all the various excuses (like there were no Africans playing then) and these are all BS used to justify the piss poor state of our development. No - African players is a huge reason along with various others Love that myth, read the below wiki for the EPL. There were more Cameroonians playing in the EPL in to 2000's than now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_Premier_League_players Thats called selective interpretation. 1 country ... Look at any European national team from 20 years ago and now....France, England, Holland, Belgium, Germany... Actually its called inconvenient facts, when the GG was playing in the PL there were just as many Africans (if not more) than now, similar story for other major leagues: Bundesliga: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_Bundesliga_players#CAFLaLiga: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_La_Liga_players#CameroonSerie A: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_Serie_A_players#Cameroon
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Barca4Life
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xBit harsh Frank. The A league was started to develop local talent. The NT have qualified for every Wcup since 2006. Won the ACup in 2015. Quality players such as Maty Ryan, Mooy, Rogic, Sainsbury, Milligan (despite criticism he played damn well at Wcup 2018!) , Rhyan Grant, Mabil, Risdon, Arzani, Leckie etc etc - they all developed via the A league. Most of NT success has involved Tim Cahill scoring amazing goals- freakish player- hard to replace obviously. Saying the ‘NT now resembles nothing’ is out of order. The ironic part of this is the young talent coming from the 2000s and up have all benefited from the programs implemented from the FFA and state feds that included the NC aka 'dutch 433' and SAP programs a decade ago are now some of the best young talent coming through in the aleague perhaps ever since its inception. Technically they are more advanced in all the things they do and unlike of the current senior players struffing around who still struggle to the do the basics at times. Arnie has said that the players in Aus underage squads that he has recently seen can do technical things rarely seen in Australian players of the past. Im sure you would be pretty familiar with it and the processes which were put in place Decentric, agree with Arnie even though he can be a tad over the top with his comments at times! Its interesting watching the u17 side that played at the World Cup last year, they did many things which often in the past Oz teams would have struggle with in a technical standpoint. But having the technical foundation isn't enough, you need all facets to become a top player so it will be interesting if any of these players will develop all 4 facets to their game (technical, tactical, physical and mental) especially the last two. This could be a false attribution, I would say technical ability is improving all around the world at the same rate.
One word “YouTube' Im talking about our problems and our deficiencies. What goes around the world should not be a concern as we have our own unique problems. I.e you cant copy the Brazilian football street culture or the strict robust European system The truth is somewhere out there What truth exactly? Because in football mad countries where they play year round have better technique than the Australian players? This is not a new thing, previously the standard Australian player is not known for its technique but for physically/fitness and mental strength to never give up. Now you can say the roles are reserved in trying to compete against these countries whilst losing what Australian players were known for back in the day. Im with the Melbourne City coach - technique is not our problem. Its mental... I think he referred to it as lack of aggression but it does into mentality. We tend to develop risk adverse players that reflects the team culture. i.e not trying to make mistakes, 'keep it simple' 'limit your touches' etc I that's the general assumption these days, that we don't develop enough risk takers. (Or maybe we do its just gets out-coached by them) I also think we lack in physically, not like we had before as well.
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Decentric 2
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+x+x+x+xBit harsh Frank. The A league was started to develop local talent. The NT have qualified for every Wcup since 2006. Won the ACup in 2015. Quality players such as Maty Ryan, Mooy, Rogic, Sainsbury, Milligan (despite criticism he played damn well at Wcup 2018!) , Rhyan Grant, Mabil, Risdon, Arzani, Leckie etc etc - they all developed via the A league. Most of NT success has involved Tim Cahill scoring amazing goals- freakish player- hard to replace obviously. Saying the ‘NT now resembles nothing’ is out of order. The ironic part of this is the young talent coming from the 2000s and up have all benefited from the programs implemented from the FFA and state feds that included the NC aka 'dutch 433' and SAP programs a decade ago are now some of the best young talent coming through in the aleague perhaps ever since its inception. Technically they are more advanced in all the things they do and unlike of the current senior players struffing around who still struggle to the do the basics at times. Arnie has said that the players in Aus underage squads that he has recently seen can do technical things rarely seen in Australian players of the past. Im sure you would be pretty familiar with it and the processes which were put in place Decentric, agree with Arnie even though he can be a tad over the top with his comments at times! Its interesting watching the u17 side that played at the World Cup last year, they did many things which often in the past Oz teams would have struggle with in a technical standpoint. But having the technical foundation isn't enough, you need all facets to become a top player so it will be interesting if any of these players will develop all 4 facets to their game (technical, tactical, physical and mental) especially the last two. Technique is the hardest to improve after youth football, whereas insight and football conditioning can be improved relatively quickly at a later age. I suppose mental strength can also improve later on in a career.
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Decentric 2
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+x+xI honestly think that nostalgia plays into things more and more as the years pass since the GG were playing. The football world is far more competitive today than it has ever been, with access to all markets in the world. It was a very different world that existed even in the 90’s, but of course we look back and often see the GG put on another level due to where they played. It did not bring sustained WC qualification though, which is something that has to be seen as a massive underachievement.
Mooy, Ryan and Rogic have been the biggest names after the GG era, which have certainly done well, but whether it’s politics or the allure of money elsewhere, there’s always going to be reasons to choose a different path. The problem is when you rely on a handful of players to make the right choices with their career moves along with an ever competitive player landscape you will always get into dilemmas with what is best for the national team and what is best for their careers. Heck even Canada is developing players at the top level. The problem stems back to a weak talent pool at senior level and therefore would not create the strong talent pool that will help the national team in the long run. We only have 2 players that are playing in top 5 leagues in Europe, I think Japan our nearest rival has about 10. Alot of work to do to improve that. First paragraph makes an excellent point, Barca.
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quickflick
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xBit harsh Frank. The A league was started to develop local talent. The NT have qualified for every Wcup since 2006. Won the ACup in 2015. Quality players such as Maty Ryan, Mooy, Rogic, Sainsbury, Milligan (despite criticism he played damn well at Wcup 2018!) , Rhyan Grant, Mabil, Risdon, Arzani, Leckie etc etc - they all developed via the A league. Most of NT success has involved Tim Cahill scoring amazing goals- freakish player- hard to replace obviously. Saying the ‘NT now resembles nothing’ is out of order. The ironic part of this is the young talent coming from the 2000s and up have all benefited from the programs implemented from the FFA and state feds that included the NC aka 'dutch 433' and SAP programs a decade ago are now some of the best young talent coming through in the aleague perhaps ever since its inception. Technically they are more advanced in all the things they do and unlike of the current senior players struffing around who still struggle to the do the basics at times. Arnie has said that the players in Aus underage squads that he has recently seen can do technical things rarely seen in Australian players of the past. Im sure you would be pretty familiar with it and the processes which were put in place Decentric, agree with Arnie even though he can be a tad over the top with his comments at times! Its interesting watching the u17 side that played at the World Cup last year, they did many things which often in the past Oz teams would have struggle with in a technical standpoint. But having the technical foundation isn't enough, you need all facets to become a top player so it will be interesting if any of these players will develop all 4 facets to their game (technical, tactical, physical and mental) especially the last two. This could be a false attribution, I would say technical ability is improving all around the world at the same rate.
One word “youtube’ 100% agree, the world has developed further than us since the NSL and thats why there are only 2 Australian players in top leagues now. You will hear all the various excuses (like there were no Africans playing then) and these are all BS used to justify the piss poor state of our development. No - African players is a huge reason along with various others The Premier League and various other European leagues have been full of African footballers since the 1990s. During the early 2000s, there were scores of African footballers. Ever heard of George Weah? Don't forget many West African footballers also have French citizenship. There may be more African footballers in Europe than ever before. However, it's not as if there were very few African footballers in Europe prior to 2009 and suddenly the people of Africa took it upon themselves to embrace football and now the Europe is full of African footballers. This is an excuse which is routinely trotted out in order to justify why Aussies are battling to get picked for decent European sides.
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Muz
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xBit harsh Frank. The A league was started to develop local talent. The NT have qualified for every Wcup since 2006. Won the ACup in 2015. Quality players such as Maty Ryan, Mooy, Rogic, Sainsbury, Milligan (despite criticism he played damn well at Wcup 2018!) , Rhyan Grant, Mabil, Risdon, Arzani, Leckie etc etc - they all developed via the A league. Most of NT success has involved Tim Cahill scoring amazing goals- freakish player- hard to replace obviously. Saying the ‘NT now resembles nothing’ is out of order. The ironic part of this is the young talent coming from the 2000s and up have all benefited from the programs implemented from the FFA and state feds that included the NC aka 'dutch 433' and SAP programs a decade ago are now some of the best young talent coming through in the aleague perhaps ever since its inception. Technically they are more advanced in all the things they do and unlike of the current senior players struffing around who still struggle to the do the basics at times. The hope is that they do have the combination of attributes necessary to succeed at the top level (talent, technique, temperament and, for certain roles, speed/agility). The issue, which you've highlighted, is that many senior Australian footballers today have been far worse in all those departments (talent, technique, temperament, speedy/agility) than the Golden Generation. As a result, our footballers have struggled massively in Europe in the long-term and our NT has been utterly without competent strikers and wingers. Many of these footballers are products of the NC. However, they they haven't learnt their craft entirely from the NC (the NC was adopted by the FFA when they were a bit older, as I understand it). I think these days when players are coming through they were would have gone through a different process from SSG, SAP to the 11v11 at 12 or 13 depending on elite level coaching they get they get taught the right habits quite early, alot different to when players started playing on big pitches and little to no formal coaching standards were in place. I am sorry, but the current system is an absolute shambles. They dont have scores Gradings or tables until about under 12s! That means you have good players playing with kids with disabilities almost and everyone (except the kids) to scared to tell the kids when they are good, when they are crap, what they have to do to play well and win. Good kids with talent are deprived of the chance to get better because the teams are all at such different levels. Clubs will sort half pick players they know or players from "academies" to go into good teams which is okay, but it means that plenty of others will slip through the net, often good players. And without proper coaching or playing the kids get disheartened and disillusioned and go play other sports, or just give up. Compare this to say brazil (or most european) countries where kids just play and train soccer all day every day. WE have no chance with the current setup. UNtil we bring back grading so that all kids can actually enjoy the game at their own levels, and get the enjoyment of actually looking up a table to encourage them to actually try to improve themselves, we give away too much of a headstart and really have no hope of replicating the golden generation even. You clearly don’t know what’s going on with that comment.
They do have “tables” pre-U12’s - they just don’t publish them.
They do “gradings” before U12 (typically U9 formally but they grade miniroos from season 1 which is U6).
There are problems on the system (pay for play for one).
I am sure i dont know what i am talking about. So when does this club grading start. Before or after the "muster". Do they grade by the sound of the name? The size of the kid? Your comment sounds like good old modern bureacracy thinking because you have your methodology correct all must be working. It isnt even close and what is trying to be achieved (a way to handle unruly parents and create some sort of communist utopia which sadly isnt possible) is only affecting the kids. It is actually quite sad when i think back to the gold old u6 miniroos where some of the kids (lost to the game and who will probably have nothing much in life) are robbed of their short moment of fun and glory because some parents cant cope with their children losing or being judged. This current system is a shambles. And by the way, what is the great advantage of not publishing tables, and not having match reports write ups for the kids, like they used to do. Why is it so important to get out kids not thinking about their upcoming games. How does this improve enjoyment for the kids? Also why is it that when i look at the church soccer, they do have published tables and gradings and they also (in my area at least) nowadays have more teams than proper soccer teams. Is that unusual nowadays? What is the reason for this. is it the good managemetn of the church group or the bad management of the other? Under 9's to 11's are graded in Brisbane. This is a club website but the one I was at used to do this too. https://www.gapfootball.org.au/frequently-asked-questions/ . Look for the Geckos, Goannas and Komodo Dragon bit. A club like Logan Lightening or Rochedale will have various teams in various grades. https://www.loganlightningfc.com/wspTrialsfor2020.aspxhttps://rochedalerovers.majestri.com.au/Event.aspx?enc=6VdLUKndi52n%2BH7S2o%2F6JQ%3D%3Dhttps://qldlionsfc.com.au/2020-trials-for-sap-expression-of-interest-forms/ Trials are conducted for these age groups, the SAP program and the NPL. It's become very fashionable to crap on about how all the 'competitiveness' has gone out of junior football when in reality that's a big bunch of arse. There may not be tables in all grades but the kids aren't stupid. They want to win like kids always have. Get along and watch an under 11's Komodos go around from one of the bigger clubs and you'll be amazed at the standard compared to when we were kids..
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Muz
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI agree with Farina The problem with coaches who didn't play at a high level is how do you know as people they understand excellence? In the cut throat world of high performance people need to be able to prove they are winners. Understanding excellence has nothing to do with obtaining qualifications. It has everything to do with how to react to tough situations, how to react on game day and all those fuzzy things in between that make someone successful over a long period of time. In that case the likes of Klopp, Mourinho, Sarri, Nagelsman would never get a chance then.... They worked there way up to where they got to now through an open system. If they tried coming through here they would get nowhere due to that perception, here its a closed system and still has a 'jobs for mates' mentality which has shifted coaches coming through alot like players. ... Not every great player is a great coach, coaching requries a different skill set alot like teaching and that has nothing to do with what reputation you have as a player but more as a person and as a communicator. I agree with this. Some brilliant footballers make brilliant coaches. Some brilliant footballers make lousy coaches. Some terrible (or non-) footballers make lousy coaches. Some terrible (or non-) footballers make brilliant coaches. The system, the football authorities and the football community should be open-minded and meritocratic. They should be mindful not to make assumptions. Assumptions hold back Australian football as much, if not more, than than anything. The problem you have is that trying to work out of a coach is any good is way more subjective than working out if a player is any good. If you look at results - maybe its because the coach had good players, maybe the leadership group on the pitch is great... So how then do you work out of. coach is any good? Very very difficult....and very risky If you have a an excellent player (so an obvious history of being good at something) then combine that with being a good thinker and communicator then you have a far less risky proposition And who are we kidding - if were were to look at the statistics - lets say there are 1,000 professional full time football coaches in the world - you would make an educated guess that 80-90 percent of them played at a very high level... And then there are the outliers.... To follow on with the point you are making, for those who think playing isnt important, who would the following side go in the A League? GK: Kalac (Goalkeeping Coach) DF: Popovic DF: Rudan DF: Postecoglou DF: Muscat MF Kewell MF Milicic MF Farina MF Arnold CF Fowler CF Corica Res Moon - A league Player Stajci - Youth International Aloisi I am pretty sure that such a side would go okay in the A League. This tends to suggest that playing ability is pretty important still. Maybe someone should tell those in charge to start picking the shoe salesmen? Its interestig that the defenders seem to be the Most successful of the positions. So let’s get this straight. We have one example of a shoe salesman coaching at the highest level and he won Champions League titles. So 100% success rate for shoe salesmen coaching football teams to international success. On the other hand of your list of ex-players only 2 Out of 14 (Postecoglu and Popovic) have won anything on the international stage (about 14%). I think the shoe salesmen have it by a very clear margin, unless you can identify any shoe salesmen who have failed as coaches in the top flight? Al Bundy was a footballing icon, at Polk High but it if my memory serves correctly it didnt translate to the coaching ranks, though his protege did end up a pretty decent shoe salesman! Which Ausralian Coaches have achieved more than those i listed? 4 touchdowns in one game. No one can take that away from him. Could've turned pro if it wasn't for Peg. Wooooah Bundy!
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clockwork orange
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI agree with Farina The problem with coaches who didn't play at a high level is how do you know as people they understand excellence? In the cut throat world of high performance people need to be able to prove they are winners. Understanding excellence has nothing to do with obtaining qualifications. It has everything to do with how to react to tough situations, how to react on game day and all those fuzzy things in between that make someone successful over a long period of time. In that case the likes of Klopp, Mourinho, Sarri, Nagelsman would never get a chance then.... They worked there way up to where they got to now through an open system. If they tried coming through here they would get nowhere due to that perception, here its a closed system and still has a 'jobs for mates' mentality which has shifted coaches coming through alot like players. ... Not every great player is a great coach, coaching requries a different skill set alot like teaching and that has nothing to do with what reputation you have as a player but more as a person and as a communicator. I agree with this. Some brilliant footballers make brilliant coaches. Some brilliant footballers make lousy coaches. Some terrible (or non-) footballers make lousy coaches. Some terrible (or non-) footballers make brilliant coaches. The system, the football authorities and the football community should be open-minded and meritocratic. They should be mindful not to make assumptions. Assumptions hold back Australian football as much, if not more, than than anything. The problem you have is that trying to work out of a coach is any good is way more subjective than working out if a player is any good. If you look at results - maybe its because the coach had good players, maybe the leadership group on the pitch is great... So how then do you work out of. coach is any good? Very very difficult....and very risky If you have a an excellent player (so an obvious history of being good at something) then combine that with being a good thinker and communicator then you have a far less risky proposition And who are we kidding - if were were to look at the statistics - lets say there are 1,000 professional full time football coaches in the world - you would make an educated guess that 80-90 percent of them played at a very high level... And then there are the outliers.... To follow on with the point you are making, for those who think playing isnt important, who would the following side go in the A League? GK: Kalac (Goalkeeping Coach) DF: Popovic DF: Rudan DF: Postecoglou DF: Muscat MF Kewell MF Milicic MF Farina MF Arnold CF Fowler CF Corica Res Moon - A league Player Stajci - Youth International Aloisi I am pretty sure that such a side would go okay in the A League. This tends to suggest that playing ability is pretty important still. Maybe someone should tell those in charge to start picking the shoe salesmen? Its interestig that the defenders seem to be the Most successful of the positions. So let’s get this straight. We have one example of a shoe salesman coaching at the highest level and he won Champions League titles. So 100% success rate for shoe salesmen coaching football teams to international success. On the other hand of your list of ex-players only 2 Out of 14 (Postecoglu and Popovic) have won anything on the international stage (about 14%). I think the shoe salesmen have it by a very clear margin, unless you can identify any shoe salesmen who have failed as coaches in the top flight? Al Bundy was a footballing icon, at Polk High but it if my memory serves correctly it didnt translate to the coaching ranks, though his protege did end up a pretty decent shoe salesman! Which Ausralian Coaches have achieved more than those i listed? Ever heard of Rale Rašić? I think Ernie Merrick and Mike Mulvey have also achieved more as coaches in the A-League than most on your list, despite not playing at the highest level.
All you’ve done is listed a bunch of players who have become coaches. You don’t think you’re grasping at straws when you list Warren Moon as an example of the need to play at the top level to be a great coach?
Rasic and Mulvey both played at the highest level in Australia in the old Nsl. Merrick is an outlier. Your question was, which coaches had achieved more than the ones you’d listed. You see Merrick as an outlier, I see it as further evidence of the high success rate of those who are not ex-players. Eg Victory has had 7 managers. 5 were ex-players and 2 were not.
50% of the ‘outsiders’ won multiple trophies.
I like how you just deflected (ignored) the fact you were wrong about 2 of the three.
Like how you deflected that In reality, non players Have a better record than ex-players. Theory debunked.
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quickflick
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+x+x+x+xBit harsh Frank. The A league was started to develop local talent. The NT have qualified for every Wcup since 2006. Won the ACup in 2015. Quality players such as Maty Ryan, Mooy, Rogic, Sainsbury, Milligan (despite criticism he played damn well at Wcup 2018!) , Rhyan Grant, Mabil, Risdon, Arzani, Leckie etc etc - they all developed via the A league. Most of NT success has involved Tim Cahill scoring amazing goals- freakish player- hard to replace obviously. Saying the ‘NT now resembles nothing’ is out of order. Agree. Frank was criticised by his FFA coach educators, because he was reluctant to take on board new ideas. While this criticism of Frank Farina may be valid, I do get the distinct impression that the same criticism could easily be made of many coaches within the FFA. Good day, Quickflick. And to you, Decentric. Hope you're well. +x+x+x+xBit harsh Frank. The A league was started to develop local talent. The NT have qualified for every Wcup since 2006. Won the ACup in 2015. Quality players such as Maty Ryan, Mooy, Rogic, Sainsbury, Milligan (despite criticism he played damn well at Wcup 2018!) , Rhyan Grant, Mabil, Risdon, Arzani, Leckie etc etc - they all developed via the A league. Most of NT success has involved Tim Cahill scoring amazing goals- freakish player- hard to replace obviously. Saying the ‘NT now resembles nothing’ is out of order. The ironic part of this is the young talent coming from the 2000s and up have all benefited from the programs implemented from the FFA and state feds that included the NC aka 'dutch 433' and SAP programs a decade ago are now some of the best young talent coming through in the aleague perhaps ever since its inception. Technically they are more advanced in all the things they do and unlike of the current senior players struffing around who still struggle to the do the basics at times. The issue, which you've highlighted, is that many senior Australian footballers today have been far worse in all those departments (talent, technique, temperament, speedy/agility) than the Golden Generation. As a result, our footballers have struggled massively in Europe in the long-term and our NT has been utterly without competent strikers and wingers. The criterion for success from many who constantly laud the GG was that Australia ostensibly had players playing in top European leagues. Most of the time, most Aussies were not regulars in those European clubs and were in and out of the team. Are you sure about that? Can you demonstrate that the proportion of Aussies who went to Europe and succeeded then is as bad as it is now? At the very least, a substantial number of Aussies were regulars in their European clubs. Harry Kewell, Mark Viduka, Tim Cahill, Craig Moore, Marco Bresciano, Vince Grella, Mark Schwarzer, Lucas Neill, Jason Culina, Brett Emerton, Scott Chipperfield, John Aloisi, Stan Lazaridis, Mile Sterjovski, Tony Popovic. All these guys were regulars, basically simultaneously, leading into the the 2006 World Cup. And there were more. Then there's also Mark Bosnich, Paul Okon, Robbie Slater, Tony Vidmar, Kevin Muscat, Ned Zelic, Craig Foster, Graham Arnold, etc. All regulars at different periods in the 90s and early 2000s. At the very least, the quality of Australian footballers and the success experienced by European-based Australian footballers was demonstrably greater in the 1990s and 2000s than now. And that's all that matters. +x+x+x+xBit harsh Frank. The A league was started to develop local talent. The NT have qualified for every Wcup since 2006. Won the ACup in 2015. Quality players such as Maty Ryan, Mooy, Rogic, Sainsbury, Milligan (despite criticism he played damn well at Wcup 2018!) , Rhyan Grant, Mabil, Risdon, Arzani, Leckie etc etc - they all developed via the A league. Most of NT success has involved Tim Cahill scoring amazing goals- freakish player- hard to replace obviously. Saying the ‘NT now resembles nothing’ is out of order. The ironic part of this is the young talent coming from the 2000s and up have all benefited from the programs implemented from the FFA and state feds that included the NC aka 'dutch 433' and SAP programs a decade ago are now some of the best young talent coming through in the aleague perhaps ever since its inception. Technically they are more advanced in all the things they do and unlike of the current senior players struffing around who still struggle to the do the basics at times. The issue, which you've highlighted, is that many senior Australian footballers today have been far worse in all those departments (talent, technique, temperament, speedy/agility) than the Golden Generation. As a result, our footballers have struggled massively in Europe in the long-term and our NT has been utterly without competent strikers and wingers. For 32 years we struggled to qualify for World Cups. This includes the GG in the 90s and early 2000s. We had tough play offs against the likes of Argentina and Uruguay, but we were also knocked out of World Cup campaigns by New Zealand, Iran ( twice) and Israel in the 32 year WCQ drought. Various former Socceroos, like Robbie Slater and Alistair Edwards have publicly discussed this tactical naivety in big games. But I'm referring exclusively to the Golden Generation. I'm not referring to the entire 32 year period. I'm referring to the 90s and 2000s when we were knocked out by Argentina, a quite reasonable Iranian side and Uruguay, before overcoming Uruguay in 2005. Socceroos sides of those days did not have the luxury of being gifted the chance to contest one of 4.5 World Cup berths in the second worst-quality confederation in the world. So the 32 year drought thing has no relevance when looked at in the actual context of how difficult it was to qualify for the World Cup and the period that I, at least, am referring to. +x+x+x+xBit harsh Frank. The A league was started to develop local talent. The NT have qualified for every Wcup since 2006. Won the ACup in 2015. Quality players such as Maty Ryan, Mooy, Rogic, Sainsbury, Milligan (despite criticism he played damn well at Wcup 2018!) , Rhyan Grant, Mabil, Risdon, Arzani, Leckie etc etc - they all developed via the A league. Most of NT success has involved Tim Cahill scoring amazing goals- freakish player- hard to replace obviously. Saying the ‘NT now resembles nothing’ is out of order. The ironic part of this is the young talent coming from the 2000s and up have all benefited from the programs implemented from the FFA and state feds that included the NC aka 'dutch 433' and SAP programs a decade ago are now some of the best young talent coming through in the aleague perhaps ever since its inception. Technically they are more advanced in all the things they do and unlike of the current senior players struffing around who still struggle to the do the basics at times. The issue, which you've highlighted, is that many senior Australian footballers today have been far worse in all those departments (talent, technique, temperament, speedy/agility) than the Golden Generation. As a result, our footballers have struggled massively in Europe in the long-term and our NT has been utterly without competent strikers and wingers. If you can, go back and have look at WC knockout games against Iran in 1997, Uruguay in 2001 and even the WC of 2006. Comparatively, current Socceroo teams, despite supposedly having limited individual personnel, are structurally stronger, tactically much more aware and battle hardened units less prone to making mistakes. I agree that before Guus, Australian football was tactically lacking. I'll deal with that in a moment. In 2005 and 2006, we were tactically very solid. A friend of mine who has played semi-professional football in Sweden and even been part of an Allsvenskan squad (highest level) was watching a bit of the Uruguay match recently. He told that he was extremely impressed by the tactical awareness and movement. I'd argue that when our guys had the ball, they actually moved the ball forwards quickly and exploited angles. This is a world apart from the slow sideways passing that was the hallmark of the NT in 2016 and 2017, never mind >70% ball possession. I have a question for you. Might the overall tactical improvement in the Socceroos have something to do with the overall tactical improvement that has occurred throughout the footballing world? +x+x+x+xBit harsh Frank. The A league was started to develop local talent. The NT have qualified for every Wcup since 2006. Won the ACup in 2015. Quality players such as Maty Ryan, Mooy, Rogic, Sainsbury, Milligan (despite criticism he played damn well at Wcup 2018!) , Rhyan Grant, Mabil, Risdon, Arzani, Leckie etc etc - they all developed via the A league. Most of NT success has involved Tim Cahill scoring amazing goals- freakish player- hard to replace obviously. Saying the ‘NT now resembles nothing’ is out of order. The ironic part of this is the young talent coming from the 2000s and up have all benefited from the programs implemented from the FFA and state feds that included the NC aka 'dutch 433' and SAP programs a decade ago are now some of the best young talent coming through in the aleague perhaps ever since its inception. Technically they are more advanced in all the things they do and unlike of the current senior players struffing around who still struggle to the do the basics at times. The issue, which you've highlighted, is that many senior Australian footballers today have been far worse in all those departments (talent, technique, temperament, speedy/agility) than the Golden Generation. As a result, our footballers have struggled massively in Europe in the long-term and our NT has been utterly without competent strikers and wingers. The English Football Association, were very impressed with Aus as a team unit at the 2014 WC under Ange. They were keen to send FA coaching staff to Aus, to work out how a country with modest playing cattle could compete so effectively against Chile, Holland and Spain on the biggest stage. Overseas coaching personnel stated that Aus looked like Dutch teams , they way they trained and set up, and were advantaged by a national system where the cattle who played for Aus at senior level came up through the national ranks of Under 16, 17, 20 and Olympics. The English FA were impressed at how Aus players were able to adapt to national game plans, seamlessly, usually within the 1-4-3-3 variations. Comparatively, English players were confused, because of all the different game plans they played at club level. ... Fast forward to the last 4 years for so, and England has made trememdous gains having won an under 17 and under 20 WC for the first time. Gareth Southgate and Steve Holland have looked to Europe, like we have. What are you suggesting here? That because the FA sent a group of coaches to liaise with the FFA and now brilliant England sides have won a couple of World Youth Cups, Australia's system is somehow responsible for this success? I discern absolutely no correlation between England's success at youth level and Australia's football system, let alone any causation. +x+x+x+xBit harsh Frank. The A league was started to develop local talent. The NT have qualified for every Wcup since 2006. Won the ACup in 2015. Quality players such as Maty Ryan, Mooy, Rogic, Sainsbury, Milligan (despite criticism he played damn well at Wcup 2018!) , Rhyan Grant, Mabil, Risdon, Arzani, Leckie etc etc - they all developed via the A league. Most of NT success has involved Tim Cahill scoring amazing goals- freakish player- hard to replace obviously. Saying the ‘NT now resembles nothing’ is out of order. The ironic part of this is the young talent coming from the 2000s and up have all benefited from the programs implemented from the FFA and state feds that included the NC aka 'dutch 433' and SAP programs a decade ago are now some of the best young talent coming through in the aleague perhaps ever since its inception. Technically they are more advanced in all the things they do and unlike of the current senior players struffing around who still struggle to the do the basics at times. The issue, which you've highlighted, is that many senior Australian footballers today have been far worse in all those departments (talent, technique, temperament, speedy/agility) than the Golden Generation. As a result, our footballers have struggled massively in Europe in the long-term and our NT has been utterly without competent strikers and wingers. The 'robots' that Frank has described, an appraisal Arnie disagrees with, have qualified for four successive WCs, won an Asian Cup under Ange, and come second under Holger. Yes. Australia has qualified for three WCs with the help of membership of the second weakest confederation. It has also won the championship for that very confederation on home soil and not before needing two bites at the cherry against South Korea. I can only imagine the level of hagiography that would have occurred on the forum if they had managed to come third in the Confederations Cup. And I'm not singling you out there, Decentric.
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quickflick
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+x[quote]I honestly think that nostalgia plays into things more and more as the years pass since the GG were playing. The football world is far more competitive today than it has ever been, with access to all markets in the world. It was a very different world that existed even in the 90’s, but of course we look back and often see the GG put on another level due to where they played. It did not bring sustained WC qualification though, which is something that has to be seen as a massive underachievement.
Mooy, Ryan and Rogic have been the biggest names after the GG era, which have certainly done well, but whether it’s politics or the allure of money elsewhere, there’s always going to be reasons to choose a different path. _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ In my opinion, this is revisionist. A discussion on this issue took place last week, I think it was. If I may copy and paste what I wrote there... This [idea that football is way better now than it was in the early-mid 2000s] is also a bit of a myth. Believe it or not, plenty of footballers from Africa and South America have been playing football in Europe since the 1990s. Certainly when the Golden Generation were there. Football was extremely popular around the world then, just as it is now. As for the quality of European football... that's an interesting one. Overall, yes, the quality is higher than it has been in the past. In my opinion, however, the best of the best in the Premier League and Serie A were better in the early-mid 2000s than in 2020. Looking at the Premier League, I don't think there's a striker or winger of 2005 Cristiano Ronaldo's or 2005 Thierry Henry's quality in the Premier League now. Just as there's Virgil van Dijk in central defence now in the Premier League, there were Nemanja Vidic and Rio Ferdinand, for example. Phenomenal. In central midfield now, Kevin De Bruyne is immaculate. But so too were Roy Keane, Patrick Vieira and Paul Scholes. If any of those names I mention played now (in their prime), they'd be among the best in the Premier League. Then in the Serie A back then, - Ronaldo (from Brazil), Zinedine Zidane, Alessandro Del Piero, Andrea Pirlo, Andriy Shevchenko, Kaka, Paolo Maldini, Clarence Seedorf, Cafu, Alessandro Nesta. The list goes on. Those guys are greats. What's improved is the overall quality [and the overall tactical awareness in places such as England]. But it was still plenty competitive back then. And the best of the best then were at least as good as the best of the best now.
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Muz
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+x
I have a question for you. Might the overall tactical improvement in the Socceroos have something to do with the overall tactical improvement that has improved throughout the footballing world?
Yep.
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dirk vanadidas
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+x+x+xI agree with Farina The problem with coaches who didn't play at a high level is how do you know as people they understand excellence? In the cut throat world of high performance people need to be able to prove they are winners. Understanding excellence has nothing to do with obtaining qualifications. It has everything to do with how to react to tough situations, how to react on game day and all those fuzzy things in between that make someone successful over a long period of time. The big problem with former players is that there is a massive differential in their ability to communicate with players and impart the knowledge they have. There are also a massive number of former players around, who find contemporaneous coaching methodology too cerebral and complex to devise sophisticated and sequential training ground practices, based on comprehensive analysis of previous games. massive differential in their ability to communicate contemporaneous coaching methodology too cerebral and complex to devise sophisticated and sequential training ground practices I am pretty sure that if any the coaches are learning that sort of language in their FFA coaching course, then i know why they are having trouble with communicating! A few seem to know the curriculum well, some probably even have done the course (i havent). So could you please tell me where in the curriculum and how often does it mention: Keep it simple. First touch away from player. Mark up. Talk to your players Put in the effort. These are just 5 golden rules (without any thought) that need to be constantly enforced, before you worry about zones, triangles, BPO, Methodology, Opposition Analysis, Sequential practices or any other sophisticated contemporaneous methods that might have the potential to make big differential to a coaches ability to communicate. One could say what a load of old cobblers, keep it simple is number 1 for producing robots, points 3,4,5 are a given even for 6 year olds
Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club
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dirk vanadidas
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As for the statement about African players, you only have to watch the uefa youth league . Thats why i see Euro leagues becoming very homogenised and the real top talents are south american influenced
Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club
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tsf
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Robots slam farina game is producing coaches
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tsf
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Coaches slam robots game is producing farinas
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tsf
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Game slams coaches farina is producing robots
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clockwork orange
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+xGame slams coaches farina is producing robots Farina claim is wrong. Evidence suggests players CAN recognise stop signs.
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Decentric 2
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+x+x+x+x+xBit harsh Frank. The A league was started to develop local talent. The NT have qualified for every Wcup since 2006. Won the ACup in 2015. Quality players such as Maty Ryan, Mooy, Rogic, Sainsbury, Milligan (despite criticism he played damn well at Wcup 2018!) , Rhyan Grant, Mabil, Risdon, Arzani, Leckie etc etc - they all developed via the A league. Most of NT success has involved Tim Cahill scoring amazing goals- freakish player- hard to replace obviously. Saying the ‘NT now resembles nothing’ is out of order. The ironic part of this is the young talent coming from the 2000s and up have all benefited from the programs implemented from the FFA and state feds that included the NC aka 'dutch 433' and SAP programs a decade ago are now some of the best young talent coming through in the aleague perhaps ever since its inception. Technically they are more advanced in all the things they do and unlike of the current senior players struffing around who still struggle to the do the basics at times. The hope is that they do have the combination of attributes necessary to succeed at the top level (talent, technique, temperament and, for certain roles, speed/agility). The issue, which you've highlighted, is that many senior Australian footballers today have been far worse in all those departments (talent, technique, temperament, speedy/agility) than the Golden Generation. As a result, our footballers have struggled massively in Europe in the long-term and our NT has been utterly without competent strikers and wingers. Many of these footballers are products of the NC. However, they they haven't learnt their craft entirely from the NC (the NC was adopted by the FFA when they were a bit older, as I understand it). I think these days when players are coming through they were would have gone through a different process from SSG, SAP to the 11v11 at 12 or 13 depending on elite level coaching they get they get taught the right habits quite early, alot different to when players started playing on big pitches and little to no formal coaching standards were in place. UNtil we bring back grading so that all kids can actually enjoy the game at their own levels, and get the enjoyment of actually looking up a table to encourage them to actually try to improve themselves, we give away too much of a headstart and really have no hope of replicating the golden generation even. When Rob Baan was FFA TD I'm pretty sure he told a group of us that they didn't record results in Brazil from age under 12 level downwards. He definitely said that all competitive football in Brazil under the age of 12 was 4v4 or 5v5 with keepers. Baan wanted to instal the Brazilian system here, but stated the backlash from recalcitrants who love 11 v 11 at any age would have been unbearable.
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Decentric 2
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+x+x+xI agree with Farina The problem with coaches who didn't play at a high level is how do you know as people they understand excellence? In the cut throat world of high performance people need to be able to prove they are winners. Understanding excellence has nothing to do with obtaining qualifications. It has everything to do with how to react to tough situations, how to react on game day and all those fuzzy things in between that make someone successful over a long period of time. The big problem with former players is that there is a massive differential in their ability to communicate with players and impart the knowledge they have. There are also a massive number of former players around, who find contemporaneous coaching methodology too cerebral and complex to devise sophisticated and sequential training ground practices, based on comprehensive analysis of previous games. massive differential in their ability to communicate contemporaneous coaching methodology too cerebral and complex to devise sophisticated and sequential training ground practices I am pretty sure that if any the coaches are learning that sort of language in their FFA coaching course, then i know why they are having trouble with communicating! A few seem to know the curriculum well, some probably even have done the course (i havent). So could you please tell me where in the curriculum and how often does it mention: Keep it simple. First touch away from player. Mark up. Talk to your players Put in the effort. These are just 5 golden rules (without any thought) that need to be constantly enforced, before you worry about zones, triangles, BPO, Methodology, Opposition Analysis, Sequential practices or any other sophisticated contemporaneous methods that might have the potential to make big differential to a coaches ability to communicate. Those five comments are pretty simplistic and nebulous apart from the second one. It can also depend on the age, ability, experience and game sense of the players being instructed. *First touch away from player - is usually applicable if one is marked by an opposition player. It can also be the case that one's first touch needs to be a bounce pass backwards if one is too tightly marked my multiple opponents. * Keep it simple : Keep what simple? Where? When? Why? *Mark up: When ? Where? Which phases of play? How in relation to the opponent - body position in relation to the opponent, being tight, sitting off, etc? *Talk to your players: When? Who? What and which instructions? *Put in the effort: How? What effort and when - Ball Possession, Ball Possession Opposition?
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Decentric 2
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+x+x+x+x+xBit harsh Frank. The A league was started to develop local talent. The NT have qualified for every Wcup since 2006. Won the ACup in 2015. Quality players such as Maty Ryan, Mooy, Rogic, Sainsbury, Milligan (despite criticism he played damn well at Wcup 2018!) , Rhyan Grant, Mabil, Risdon, Arzani, Leckie etc etc - they all developed via the A league. Most of NT success has involved Tim Cahill scoring amazing goals- freakish player- hard to replace obviously. Saying the ‘NT now resembles nothing’ is out of order. Agree. Frank was criticised by his FFA coach educators, because he was reluctant to take on board new ideas. While this criticism of Frank Farina may be valid, I do get the distinct impression that the same criticism could easily be made of many coaches within the FFA. Good day, Quickflick. And to you, Decentric. Hope you're well. +x+x+x+xBit harsh Frank. The A league was started to develop local talent. The NT have qualified for every Wcup since 2006. Won the ACup in 2015. Quality players such as Maty Ryan, Mooy, Rogic, Sainsbury, Milligan (despite criticism he played damn well at Wcup 2018!) , Rhyan Grant, Mabil, Risdon, Arzani, Leckie etc etc - they all developed via the A league. Most of NT success has involved Tim Cahill scoring amazing goals- freakish player- hard to replace obviously. Saying the ‘NT now resembles nothing’ is out of order. The ironic part of this is the young talent coming from the 2000s and up have all benefited from the programs implemented from the FFA and state feds that included the NC aka 'dutch 433' and SAP programs a decade ago are now some of the best young talent coming through in the aleague perhaps ever since its inception. Technically they are more advanced in all the things they do and unlike of the current senior players struffing around who still struggle to the do the basics at times. The issue, which you've highlighted, is that many senior Australian footballers today have been far worse in all those departments (talent, technique, temperament, speedy/agility) than the Golden Generation. As a result, our footballers have struggled massively in Europe in the long-term and our NT has been utterly without competent strikers and wingers. The criterion for success from many who constantly laud the GG was that Australia ostensibly had players playing in top European leagues. Most of the time, most Aussies were not regulars in those European clubs and were in and out of the team. Are you sure about that? Can you demonstrate that the proportion of Aussies who went to Europe and succeeded then is as bad as it is now? At the very least, a substantial number of Aussies were regulars in their European clubs. Harry Kewell, Mark Viduka, Tim Cahill, Craig Moore, Marco Bresciano, Vince Grella, Mark Schwarzer, Lucas Neill, Jason Culina, Brett Emerton, Scott Chipperfield, John Aloisi, Stan Lazaridis, Mile Sterjovski, Tony Popovic. All these guys were regulars, basically simultaneously, leading into the the 2006 World Cup. And there were more. Then there's also Mark Bosnich, Paul Okon, Robbie Slater, Tony Vidmar, Kevin Muscat, Ned Zelic, Craig Foster, Graham Arnold, etc. All regulars at different periods in the 90s and early 2000s. At the very least, the quality of Australian footballers and the success experienced by European-based Australian footballers was demonstrably greater in the 1990s and 2000s than now. And that's all that matters. At one stage Viduka was battling Jimmy Floyd Hasselbank for a starting position. Emerton was displaced by David Thompson at Blackburn at times. Grella and Bresc weren't always starters in Serie A. Aloisi wasn't always a starting striker in La Liga. Culina wasn't always in the PSV team. Kewell often didn't start at Liverpool. At one stage Slater and Lazaridis were playing for the same spot at West Ham. Tony Vidmar and Muscat were battling each other for a starting spot at Rangers. Okon wasn't always a starter in the EPL. Weren't Chipper and Sterjovski battling for the same position in Switzerland? You've forgotten to mention the short spells of Josh Kennedy ( Bundesliga) and Luke Wilkshire ( EPL). If you state the quality was greater from these players playing in Europe, it may have been in terms of the status of the club strips they wore, but it didn't necessarily extrapolate to football performance criteria at international football level. If we are talking about a Golden Generation, I'm loosely defining one as starting shortly after 1991. From the aforementioned list, there is definitely more depth in strikers on paper, but there may have been less depth in central midfield.
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Decentric 2
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+x
I agree that before Guus, Australian football was tactically lacking. I'll deal with that in a moment. In 2005 and 2006, we were tactically very solid. A friend of mine who has played semi-professional football in Sweden and even been part of an Allsvenskan squad (highest level) was watching a bit of the Uruguay match recently. He told that he was extremely impressed by the tactical awareness and movement.
I'd argue that when our guys had the ball, they actually moved the ball forwards quickly and exploited angles. This is a world apart from the slow sideways passing that was the hallmark of the NT in 2016 and 2017, never mind >70% ball possession.
I have a question for you. Might the overall tactical improvement in the Socceroos have something to do with the overall tactical improvement that has occurred throughout the footballing world?
Paragraphs 1 and 2, the Socceroos pushed the ball forward quite quickly, but turned the ball over all the time. It was pretty mediocre. The third paragraph is a good point though. When Australia was playing Croatia, when I've looked at old footage in WC 2006, they were also equally as bad as us. The number of turnovers from Croatia was shocking too. Both teams made heaps of mistakes. There is no doubt that the overall football standard of world football has improved. Moreover, many football nations are forever improving so that we see more even games at international level with improved structural organisation and ameliorated tactics. It would be an interesting exercise for your Allsvenskan mate to look at more recent Socceroo games to draw comparisons. They've often played against stacked, compact defences, with little distance between and within the lines in half pressing game plans .
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AJF
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Posts: 2.7K,
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+x+x
I agree that before Guus, Australian football was tactically lacking. I'll deal with that in a moment. In 2005 and 2006, we were tactically very solid. A friend of mine who has played semi-professional football in Sweden and even been part of an Allsvenskan squad (highest level) was watching a bit of the Uruguay match recently. He told that he was extremely impressed by the tactical awareness and movement.
I'd argue that when our guys had the ball, they actually moved the ball forwards quickly and exploited angles. This is a world apart from the slow sideways passing that was the hallmark of the NT in 2016 and 2017, never mind >70% ball possession.
I have a question for you. Might the overall tactical improvement in the Socceroos have something to do with the overall tactical improvement that has occurred throughout the footballing world?
Paragraphs 1 and 2, the Socceroos pushed the ball forward quite quickly, but turned the ball over all the time. It was pretty mediocre. The third paragraph is a good point though. When Australia was playing Croatia, when I've looked at old footage in WC 2006, they were also equally as bad as us. The number of turnovers from Croatia was shocking too. Both teams made heaps of mistakes. There is no doubt that the overall football standard of world football has improved. Moreover, many football nations are forever improving so that we see more even games at international level with improved structural organisation and ameliorated tactics. It would be an interesting exercise for your Allsvenskan mate to look at more recent Socceroo games to draw comparisons. They've often played against stacked, compact defences, with little distance between and within the lines in half pressing game plans . Passing triangles & possession dont win games and the Socceroos performance at last 2 WC's clearly shows current crop is no where near as good as GG, table below shows performance at last 4 WC's. | Year | Pos | Pld | W | D | L | GF | GA | GD | Pts | Qualification | | 2018 | 4 | 3 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 5 | −3 | 1 | | | 2014 | 4 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 3 | 9 | −6 | 0 | | | 2010 | 3 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 3 | 6 | −3 | 4 |
| | 2006 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 5 | 5 | 0 | 4 | Rnd 16 loss to Italy |
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