Is the PFA becoming redundant?


Is the PFA becoming redundant?

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jaymz
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With a lot of clubs renegotiating with individual players directly, is the PFAs role in the Australian football landscape being reduced?

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patjennings
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I wouldn't say that. However an A-League wide CBA is likely to be a thing of the past.
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Every time a CBA comes up for renewal it gets messy but we will wait and see how things go trying to negotiate with each player. 

The PFA has likely overstretched in many ways over the years to the benefit of its members but maybe not for the betterment of the game. As the economy nosedives, and the money dries up, it’s going to take a lot of work to get many to understand the current reality.

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jaymz - 25 Sep 2020 7:19 PM
With a lot of clubs renegotiating with individual players directly, is the PFAs role in the Australian football landscape being reduced?

Good f**k the PFA has been f**ken ruining and bleeding football for years - let players negotiate themselves or via agents 

these Kangaroos can play football - 
Ange P. (Intercontinental WC Play-offs 2017) 

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Davstar - 25 Sep 2020 10:55 PM
jaymz - 25 Sep 2020 7:19 PM

Good f**k the PFA has been f**ken ruining and bleeding football for years - let players negotiate themselves or via agents 

Yes cos agents are a nice clean aspect of the game 
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Coverdale - 26 Sep 2020 7:19 AM
Davstar - 25 Sep 2020 10:55 PM

Yes cos agents are a nice clean aspect of the game 

No worse than the PFA.

The thing about football - the important thing about football - is its not just about football.
- Sir Terry Pratchett in Unseen Academicals
For pro/rel in Australia across the entire pyramid, the removal of artificial impediments to the development of the game and its players.
On sabbatical Youth Coach and formerly part of The Cove FC

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Has the PFA been an obstacle all this long because of a lack of transfer system? The CBA has been a blessing for the players.

Artificial value vs real value (with what the player is really worth in an open system).

Not to mention the factor of the salary cap which is why the PFA want it removed so it might open up a transfer system in any case.
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Barca4Life - 26 Sep 2020 11:53 AM
Has the PFA been an obstacle all this long because of a lack of transfer system? The CBA has been a blessing for the players.

Artificial value vs real value (with what the player is really worth in an open system).

Not to mention the factor of the salary cap which is why the PFA want it removed so it might open up a transfer system in any case.

The owners bought in to the A-League thinking that the Grant of $1.2M would cover most of the salary cap of $1.5M. The PFA negotiated with the FFA to quickly hike that so that the owners quickly had to cover over $1M rather than $300,000 of slaray costs aprt from any other costs involved with running the clubs. i.e. The clubs were put under undue financial pressure before they were properly established.

Would it have been different with a transfer system - probably. But rather than helping enlarge the professional game they have ensured that it remains a very closed shop.
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Coverdale - 26 Sep 2020 7:19 AM
Davstar - 25 Sep 2020 10:55 PM

Yes cos agents are a nice clean aspect of the game 

Keeps the salary fair - a CBA just results in useless players getting over paid and players bailing for better money else where 

An agent can only negotiate based on the players ability and current interest 

these Kangaroos can play football - 
Ange P. (Intercontinental WC Play-offs 2017) 

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Barca4Life - 26 Sep 2020 11:53 AM
Has the PFA been an obstacle all this long because of a lack of transfer system? The CBA has been a blessing for the players.

Artificial value vs real value (with what the player is really worth in an open system).

Not to mention the factor of the salary cap which is why the PFA want it removed so it might open up a transfer system in any case.

The PFA are the ones that are against a transfer system. 

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Just get rid of the CBA and get rid of the cap, use national labour laws for a minimum wage. That way if you are good you make more money, if you are really good you make lots of money and lots of money for your club in transfer fees as well.

Beaten by Eldar

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Eldar - 26 Sep 2020 4:10 PM
Just get rid of the CBA and get rid of the cap, use national labour laws for a minimum wage. That way if you are good you make more money, if you are really good you make lots of money and lots of money for your club in transfer fees as well.

On the face of it, relying on current labour law for a minimum wage sounds reasonable, but I wonder whether a football specfic CBA would include a range of items that aren't normally regulated or relevant to the broader workforce.

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Under the current CBA the PFA was getting $2mill from the Foxsports Money.
Now I don’t know, without a CBA I assume the PFA doesn’t get that money anymore.
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Arthur - 26 Sep 2020 6:30 PM
Under the current CBA the PFA was getting $2mill from the Foxsports Money.
Now I don’t know, without a CBA I assume the PFA doesn’t get that money anymore.

Lol 2 million , see that’s the shite the club owners and Foxtel/news limited will feed the plebeians , just remember one thing “a paper never refuses ink”
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If, as a player, I ask for $100,000 and no one bites then I have to rethink but if it is accepted then who's to blame? The player, the PFA or the owner. It annoys me no end that the Aussie player gets ridiculed but all those useless visa players that have stunk up our game seem to be given a free pass. The PFA is there for the best of its members, obviously,  but if the  owners  are gutless and cave in to demands then they're to blame, aren't they? 
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bettega - 26 Sep 2020 6:27 PM
Eldar - 26 Sep 2020 4:10 PM

On the face of it, relying on current labour law for a minimum wage sounds reasonable, but I wonder whether a football specfic CBA would include a range of items that aren't normally regulated or relevant to the broader workforce.

Yep this is how I see it. There are plenty of things that the Players and clubs can agree to in a CBA beyond pure salary number. Post playing career pathways, safety issues like maximum match day temperature, minimum facility standards as well as reinforcing existing player rights. 

A CBA allows players to have an input on the direction of the league through the PFA and that's generally been a good thing for the game since the 90's. There is no reason to not continue just because player salaries stops being a part of the collective discussions. 

Viennese Vuck

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AnthonyC - 27 Sep 2020 6:20 AM
If, as a player, I ask for $100,000 and no one bites then I have to rethink but if it is accepted then who's to blame? The player, the PFA or the owner. It annoys me no end that the Aussie player gets ridiculed but all those useless visa players that have stunk up our game seem to be given a free pass. The PFA is there for the best of its members, obviously,  but if the  owners  are gutless and cave in to demands then they're to blame, aren't they? 

In 15 years of the AL the Jonny Warren Medal (best players of the season) has been won by a non-Australian players 10 times....you cant say o/s players stink up the league when 2/3 times they are the best players in it...




these Kangaroos can play football - 
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Eldar - 26 Sep 2020 4:10 PM
Just get rid of the CBA and get rid of the cap, use national labour laws for a minimum wage. That way if you are good you make more money, if you are really good you make lots of money and lots of money for your club in transfer fees as well.

On the money. Labour laws already exist.

The thing about football - the important thing about football - is its not just about football.
- Sir Terry Pratchett in Unseen Academicals
For pro/rel in Australia across the entire pyramid, the removal of artificial impediments to the development of the game and its players.
On sabbatical Youth Coach and formerly part of The Cove FC

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General Ashnak - 27 Sep 2020 4:19 PM
Eldar - 26 Sep 2020 4:10 PM

On the money. Labour laws already exist.

Labour laws also allow CBA's.
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Do other countries have a PFA equivalent or is it a by-product of the league structure we have - salary cap etc? 



General Ashnak
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Gyfox - 27 Sep 2020 9:01 PM
General Ashnak - 27 Sep 2020 4:19 PM

Labour laws also allow CBA's.

Correct, I have yet to see one that benefits all parties involved.

The thing about football - the important thing about football - is its not just about football.
- Sir Terry Pratchett in Unseen Academicals
For pro/rel in Australia across the entire pyramid, the removal of artificial impediments to the development of the game and its players.
On sabbatical Youth Coach and formerly part of The Cove FC

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General Ashnak - 29 Sep 2020 12:44 PM
Gyfox - 27 Sep 2020 9:01 PM

Correct, I have yet to see one that benefits all parties involved.

In the entertainment industry which professional sport is - CBA do not work. 




these Kangaroos can play football - 
Ange P. (Intercontinental WC Play-offs 2017) 

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Davstar - 27 Sep 2020 11:35 AM
AnthonyC - 27 Sep 2020 6:20 AM

In 15 years of the AL the Jonny Warren Medal (best players of the season) has been won by a non-Australian players 10 times....you cant say o/s players stink up the league when 2/3 times they are the best players in it...



Someone with a lot more time than I do would be able to list all the non Oz players then let us see what the percentage of good to shit is.
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AnthonyC - 30 Sep 2020 2:26 PM
Davstar - 27 Sep 2020 11:35 AM

Someone with a lot more time than I do would be able to list all the non Oz players then let us see what the percentage of good to shit is.

YearPlayerClub
2005–06Australia Bobby DespotovskiPerth Glory
2006–07Australia Nick CarleNewcastle Jets
2007–08Australia Joel GriffithsNewcastle Jets
2008–09New Zealand Shane SmeltzWellington Phoenix
2009–10Costa Rica Carlos HernándezMelbourne Victory
2010–11Argentina Marcos FloresAdelaide United
2011–12Germany Thomas BroichBrisbane Roar
2012–13New Zealand Marco RojasMelbourne Victory
2013–14Germany Thomas BroichBrisbane Roar
2014–15Australia Nathan BurnsWellington Phoenix
2015–16Spain Diego CastroPerth Glory
2016–17Serbia Miloš NinkovićSydney FC
2017–18Poland Adrian MierzejewskiSydney FC
2018–19Fiji Roy KrishnaWellington Phoenix
2019–20Italy Alessandro DiamantiWestern United

Here is a lazy list cut and pasted from wiki 

these Kangaroos can play football - 
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Clubs and Pfa have struck a new cba. One unnamed source said the players stuck solid and got what they deserved.
No need for industrial action.
Story posted on World Game.
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A-League clubs and PFA reach payment deal

The A-League clubs and the Professional Footballers Association (PFA) are believed to have finally come together and struck a deal over the payment of players for next season that will see the salary cap drop to $2.1 million.

The World Game understands the clubs and the PFA have agreed for the salary cap to decline from $3.2 million down to $2.1 million for the 2020-2021 season, but all existing player contracts cannot be altered as part of a new collective bargaining agreement.

Under the agreement, which will end the threat of industrial action, each club will be able to negotiate the size of individual pay cuts with its own players for next season, but the players now have the right to reject those in good faith.

It is believed the minimum A-League salary for players aged 23 and under will also stay at around $64,133. The proposal from the clubs was put to the players on Sunday night and they voted to accept it, according to sources.

One involved party told The World Game: “The players stayed strong and got what they deserved.”

It is understood under the deal the clubs will pay players for the nine months of the new A-League campaign, instead for a full 12-month year.

It is expected that clubs will also reduce their spending of marquee players in 2021 as part of their cost-cutting needed to cope with the financial impact of Covid-19.

A-League clubs were initially clamouring for a salary cap reduction of 30% for next season in what had been a bitter public stand-off with the players union.

The PFA had not responded to requests for comment from The World Game at the time of writing.

https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/a-league-clubs-and-pfa-reach-payment-deal

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$64k as a minimum wage for u23s is low but in the current economic climate acceptable. I imagine most of those on this wage will be living in shared accommodation and without family responsibilities. Plenty of incentive for them to train their guts out and push for a starting spot and higher honours, and wages.
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Davstar - 30 Sep 2020 3:33 PM
AnthonyC - 30 Sep 2020 2:26 PM

YearPlayerClub
2005–06Australia Bobby DespotovskiPerth Glory
2006–07Australia Nick CarleNewcastle Jets
2007–08Australia Joel GriffithsNewcastle Jets
2008–09New Zealand Shane SmeltzWellington Phoenix
2009–10Costa Rica Carlos HernándezMelbourne Victory
2010–11Argentina Marcos FloresAdelaide United
2011–12Germany Thomas BroichBrisbane Roar
2012–13New Zealand Marco RojasMelbourne Victory
2013–14Germany Thomas BroichBrisbane Roar
2014–15Australia Nathan BurnsWellington Phoenix
2015–16Spain Diego CastroPerth Glory
2016–17Serbia Miloš NinkovićSydney FC
2017–18Poland Adrian MierzejewskiSydney FC
2018–19Fiji Roy KrishnaWellington Phoenix
2019–20Italy Alessandro DiamantiWestern United

Here is a lazy list cut and pasted from wiki 

Lazy is your brain. You ,obviously, weren't able to comprehend my question. I'll let your ( brain ) rest.
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AnthonyC - 30 Sep 2020 2:26 PM
Davstar - 27 Sep 2020 11:35 AM

Someone with a lot more time than I do would be able to list all the non Oz players then let us see what the percentage of good to shit is.

I might take up the challenge then. Are we talking just currently (as in 19-20 season)
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AnthonyC - 5 Oct 2020 5:54 PM
Davstar - 30 Sep 2020 3:33 PM

Lazy is your brain. You ,obviously, weren't able to comprehend my question. I'll let your ( brain ) rest.

Bahaha i just read your question my bad 




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