In my honest opinion there is no argument to stay in the AFC? 



Anyone who says 'More competitive fixtures'?  - i would argue at the cost of more competitive competition participation? we no longer qualify for youth WC and Olympics regularly. - it is why NZ have a better national team then us 

Qualifying for World cups more? if anything seeing us lose in straight sets bcuz we are in such a weak confederation with a low bar to make it to world cups has cost us more then we have gained - the worst part is being part of the AFC, rules us out from ever playing a Asian confederation based team in the group stages of the WC (like we did in 2006 the only WC game we won at that point in time) making qualifying for the round of 16 significantly harder 


I would withdraw from the AFC go back to the OFC and do something more unpopular try and change the A-League In to the O-League (Oceania-Super -League) New Caledonia could support a club possibly one or two other pacific countries add a few more Australian clubs and possibly one more NZ create a conference system (since we never going to have P/R) and focus on the region that we are actually in...    

A truly dumb idea. We need to be measuring ourselves up to Japan, Korea, China, etc., at both club and national team level, and the best way to do that is by playing regular competitive matches with them. Going back to Oceania would be throwing in the towel and admitting we're not good enough.

The AFC does need to figure out how to make the ACL more lucrative, so clubs see it as an opportunity and not a burden (and not just in Australia). I also think they should have a shorter WC qualification process, and go back to having separate qualifiers for the AC. Also, how about an AFC Nations League like what UEFA is doing? Then we could theoretically be playing the bigger Asian nations on a much more regular basis.

This is infinitely preferable to having two meaningful matches every four years, which we lose precisely because we're only playing two meaningful matches very four years (see: the Socceroos ca. 1978-2002). 

 That's because we are not good enough. We are an AFC cup nation at best because we cannot compete financially with the likes of Japan, China, Saudi Arabia, etc.

We're the fourth best Asian nation in the FIFA rankings, and won the Asia Cup five years ago. Let's not exaggerate.

It's davstar . He posts some absolute drivel at times and when he gets called out he just attacks posters .

Did I just read, inside the same post, someone write that NZ had a better team than Australia, and then someone else write that they look good on paper? Or have I been smokin’ the wacky weed again?

Literally every comment  here is against me i haven't attacked anyone? only person who attacks people is you bro and it is literally every 3 posts i make.... issue you have is when i show you facts in why your opinions are 'generally' wrong you have a mass cry start moaning and making nonsense up. 

And this isnt attacking anyone but other then the notion that it is 'more competitive' no one has given a solid argument as a reason we should be in the AFC - keeping in mind this isnt our confederation and we have without a doubt gone backwards since joining.

That's national teams, but he mentioned the AFC Cup which is a club competition, so I think he might be talking about that. Our national team might be alright (largely thanks to players learning their craft overseas) but our domestic professional football scene is in crisis and our ACL ranking is a lot lower accordingly, coming in at 11th.

Leaving the AFC would make things much worse, of course.

You're only looking at things at senior level you need to look at development ages in which we are not competitive anymore and not qualifying for big competitions. 

NZ look good on paper but they've still not delivered on the pitch. In the end you can have all your programs and great players at club level only to end up shit on the pitch for 90 minutes when it matters. That's exactly what Australia, New Zealand, Turkey, Ireland and Scotland do. I find them all in a rut of rinse and repeating the last decade or so.

On topic, you'd be mad to give up the opportunity Asia gives us. Let's embrace this big challenge. We'll succeed and fail as we already have and I wouldn't have it any other way. The main thing is we do as best as we can most of the time. 

I'd argue with a population of 4 million, pretty much no money and football not being very popular at all they are doing better then us. 

They literally have 1 professional team....

Good grief. Just good grief. Where to even begin...

"it is why NZ have a better national team then us".

I'm sorry based off what? Chris Wood?

We’re not suppose to be going backwards, but here we are talking about this.

NZ haven’t made a WCup since 2010 FFS 

Making world cups means nothing for Nz or Australia as either side arent competitive in the competition and we havent been competitive since....joining the AFC....why? bcuz our youth arent getting any exposure anymore in youth competitions.

how many U/20 WC have we qualified for since joining the AFC? (1?) 

I'd rather see us go to the world cup once ever 12 years but with a side that can do something special then go every 4 years and not win a game? 

Im going to make one over-arching comment to replay to all 

You are all looking at this from a Senior Level - Socceroos/World cup - I've been saying this for 15 years and im going to say it now you need to build from the Bottom NOT the top. - by the time it comes to Socceroos it is already too late! 

Youth development is 10 times more important then senior competitive fixtures becuz we will never have the $ to have a league that is of high enough quality for us to solely focus on senior level ball (ie 15 years of AL and we got 12 teams and no p/r and the leagues salary cap is 2.1m!) 

We have made every world cup since joining the AFC but have been rubbish every time (bar 2010)  - when we qualified though the OFC (32 years) the one team we sent was actually competitive. 

I'd rather our youth teams U/19 U20s, U23s etc qualify for every tournament and risk not making the world cup then vice versa. 


AFC has done little good for us - if your looking at the hard facts you will see i have a point. But instead you have been fed a notion by a very incompetent FFA that being in Asia is superior for us becuz???? money???? (in which joining AFC has cost us loads but made us none) 

I originally supported the move to Asia but after brought the garbage the FFA was selling. 
My real issue is there has been no evaluation of joining this confederation - dare say the FFA has avoided it becuz it would probably 'piss off' the AFC but we need to have a real look at if this path and  if it is one we want to stay on? If we at least had a independent assessment on if this confederation has been good for us compared to where we were (or could be) then i'd accept that but it would need to look at all levels of  football not just seniors. 

If you guys cant at least accept there needs to be a review then i dare say football is finished

You haven't addressed how joining OFC will exactly make us better at developing youth. Unless you're suggesting a couple of youth World Cups every four years will change that? That's a load of dross. What about our youth playing in competitive Asian tournaments every year? Also we have seen a marked over the past say 3 years in our youth qualifying for international tournaments, so early signs are promising. It's what happens before those Youth Cups that count and if we are in OFC we are not getting any more money than we are now by not possibly competing at Senior World Cups, Asian Cups, qualification games and all other Asian football tournaments. What on earth is the point of qualifying for Youth World Cups if you have little desire of qualifying for Senior World Cups like you have alluded to? A lot of this is about the financials and it's complete lunacy to say all our problems are solved by playing Tahiti, Vanuatu and Tonga just so we have guaranteed shots at U-17 and U-20 World Cups. 

As I mentioned, if that is really the criteria then the early signs are promising as our youth teams are becoming more competitive which probably has more to do with when these youngsters were born in relation to the Curriculum et al.

Our problems lie more than just in qualifying for Youth Cups and really it comes down to money and the sporting landscape of Australia atm.

Your asking the wrong question, how has being in Asia made us better? we are not 'asian' we are actually based in Oceania you need to ask yourself the same question 

Youth world cups is were 'big' clubs sign young players to develop? if Daniel Arzani went to a U17 WC he might of got picked up earlier and gone to a better development club then Celtic. 


Have these 'Asian' competitions made us better? 

Im going to say you're all talking a load of 'dross' if you cant answer this question honestly bcuz using the term 'early signs' is why we are f**ked right now. We have bee part of this confederation for 15 years? where does early end??? when is it that this was a mistake? when do we evaluate the actually positive and negative impacts of how it has affected our football? 

Daniel Arzani's barely played in that u17 World Cup and that was a sub appearance against Germany if im not correct. 

The move to Celtic came from his World Cup displays along with his performances in the aleague before that.

Dont disagree that playing at youth world cups brings more attention to our players from scouts around the world, something that has been missing in the last decade because qualifying through Asia is more challenging than putting cricket scores in Oceania.

How do they address is not easy but Arnie explains it well they need more games, many more games actually.

Stopped there.

Davstar. Our very own alt reality lunatic fringe. 

They said the same thing to the guy who 1st suggested the world was round....

Still havent heard a single good argument on to why the AFC is good for Australian football though? 

I don't think you will because I think your arguments are about the wrong subject. I think your arguments have little to do with OFC vs AFC and a lot more to do with the destruction of youth development. If that is properly addressed then I suspect your opinion may well change.

In other words the FFA thought that going to the AFC would make us more competitive but undercut that move by a series of decisions that ensured our are youth development led to us being uncompetitive.

The FFA took an eye of their ball for this, they underestimated how difficult Asia was going to get.

Arnie warned John O'Neill and F Lowy to invest in the future in 2007 and look where we are in now?

Of course it didnt help that the people employed from other sports didn't understand this sport and the challenges it was going to face into the future and now we are paying the price for it.

This.

This might be true but is it not worth at least having a independent evaluation ? ? ? 

Instead im being slagged off by everyone but when you think about it what good has the AFC done for Australian football? 

OFC - Participation in 1 World Cup Finals EVER
AFC - Participation in World Cup Finals at EVERY attempt
That might count as one? Unless you would argue that participation in World Cup Finals is not good for Australian Football?

How many youth world cups have we gone too? 

How did we do in the last couple world cups? 

Geez mate. Maybe we could start our own World Cup and just invite crap teams so we could win a trophy? Basically you are wanting to go to the World Cup and play a weaker team because that somehow makes us better?

You’d like those social teams that stack their side with decent players then nominate to play Div 7 just so they can smash sides 10-0.

There is already a non fifa world cup. Maybe he wants us to  play in conIfia against teams like the country of nice or the powerhouse United Koreans in Japan 

No that makes us no better as a football nation like joining the AFC

The guy that 1st suggested the world was round was definitely correct though... nobody on here seems too sure that OFC would be better option than AFC

So we want to go back to Oceania because its gotten too hard to compete with Asia, its a case of I told you so when we first joined Asia in 2006 that this path was only going to get hard given how football is popular in Asia and the money they are investing into youth development.

Its like life, if the challenge is hard do you walk away or you tackle it and challenge to improve yourself and become a better person to me thats why has happened when we joined in 2006 is this was always going to expose our flaws and test ourselves how serious we want to get better as a football nation.

Is this wake call that our youth development is flawed? Yes

Is this a wake call to take our football development seriously? Yes

These things were rarely questioned in the Oceania days as Australia used to put in cricket scores against these minnows of world football and they learned nothing from them and a coincidence that we never qualified for a World Cup for 32 years in that period.

Going back to Oceania is basically saying 'I give up' or 'its too hard now' and I dont think we want that dont we? 

Financially we cant compete with these nations it isnt giving up it is being realistic? 

Put it this way you're not going to win a race with a Toyota Camry against a Ferrari - no matter how hard you try ....

We should only consider going back to OFC if we ever lose our record for biggest win in international football. 

Problem is the FFA and their grand ideas for the AL have not only isolated it from Aus but also AFC. If they were realistic (smart) they would realise they cannot compete and so should set up as a feeder league to the richer leagues in the region and not only could the teams make money from transfer fees, Aus football would improve as there would be many more of our players playing professionally and there would be a production line.

Just look what happened when salary cap was cut, all the older players went OS for their payday which in turn has opened up opportunities for youngsters

OP your drunk go home.

You talk like it’s already been a successful season. I reckon the jury is still out.

Essentially this right here is the issue with being in the AFC and anyone who doesnt think so, please tell me why?  

This is just as dumb as when Mike Cockerill suggested it.

We spent decades trying to escape OFC because it was a fucking basket case, I am not going back to watch pointless games against NZ or Fiji.

Also giving up the millions we get in grants per AFC WCQ game for a super league with New Caledonia which has half the population of Tasmania as well as more worthless teams from New Zealand sounds like a great idea.

Opposed to the amazing competition that is the current A-L? 

I mean we are really selling out Socceroos vs Thailand and Kuwait games these days.....I mean it isnt like it is expensive to send a squad to Iran compared to NZ which is a few hours away....

How can we not go back to the OFC when our competition is at the level it is at? 

It isnt like players are preferring to play in India/UAE/CSL over the A-L,  and our clubs don't get slapped in the ACL a competition bcuz the arent financially on the same ball park as the other sides....

I mean the ACL brings in so much money to the league!? it isnt like we are running at a huge loss competing every year....

It isn't like competing in the club world cup would of made clubs here in Australia money? would it? i mean having players in Youth World cups doing well wouldnt mean our AL clubs could sell them like the NSL did for a giant profit? 

..oh wait.. 

Which federation is Antarctica in? May be we should just join that one to play against the penguins and everyone’s happy.

Joining the AFC closely coincided with the introduction of the A League. It is well discussed that our youth development has gone backwards during this period.
This is largely due to a move to the A League, and in a parallel thread it has also  been discussed how abolishing transfer fees has also had a negative impact on development.
Players in the A League play less games than they used to - is this the AFC's fault? If anything the AFC has pushed for us to have a NSD and force a minimum number of rounds played each season. The OFC couldn't care less.
Joining the AFC is the one lasting positive that 'new football' brought to us - I do not see how reverting to playing the likes of Fiji and New Zealand, and begging for friendlies against B sides from Europe and South America is going to help us.
If anything we should be thankful the AFC has not kicked us out for the stupidity we have shown at times.

The large majority of seasons in the NSL had 26 rounds.

And sometimes that was even the same number as they planned to have at the start of the season! :hehe:

OP has yet to raise a single good point. Keeps screaming at the walls. AFC is not to blame for development within our own country. I'd rather fail to make a world cup in Asia then be bored as bat shit for 4 years and then fail to make a world cup after losing 1 match to Argentina or Columbia or Peru etc. It's like you are trying so hard to blame Asia for the mistakes of the FFA. Strawman argument if I've ever seen one. Sounds like someone didn't grow up watching us soul crushing lose at the final hurdle every 4 years. Not be invited to play in the Asian cup, not be invited to play in the ACL. We made the youth world cup we made the olympics and have qualified for every world cup so far and I think every time we qualify we get $12 million and we won the Asian Cup in 2015.

Why is it a positive? 

Better football makes us better.

See originally i agreed with this when we joined the AFC but when you look at it. Are we better then when we were part of the OFC, bcuz imo we are a hell of a lot worse.

Plenty of reasons why we're worse. Joining AFC isn't one of them, in my view.

the OFC should be joining the FFA not the other way round
- their national teams to become A-League franchises
- their league competitions to become NPLs and the NPL Finals to become a champions league

I think your logic is a little all ove the place. Sure the OFC had a couple of perks but the AFC is currently better and has a lot more upside. 

Going to the world cup is 'costing us' money due to the expensive qualifying process we face in the AFC 

Less players going to Asia makes ur domestic league better bcuz the quality it higher - thus the keeping out 'youth argument' has never made sense if they are good enough they are old enough

3/7 isnt a pass anywhere in the world we made almost every tournament before....

the ACL will never be a big league until the prize money is multiplied by 5 - in which i'd argue making the Club world cup would of made the AL team that participates in it a hell of a lot more money then the ACL could have (bar the year WSW won the comp). (over all the ACL participating teams are also running as a loss)   

When you look at the facts how can you say the AFC has been good?

It’s costing us money to going to the World Cup via Asia but it won’t cost us to fail qualifying through OFC?  I don’t quite understand? It will still cost us to play the games in OFC and then miss out against whichever nation we fail to beat in the intercontinental playoff. 

Aleague average age last season before COVID: 32 years per starting 11.

With the lack of teams and influx of foreign spots in key positions in the field, it’s meant less opportunities for young players to learn their craft as pro footballers unlike the NSL era where it had more teams and less foreign spots.

Clubs are just too lazy to develop young players as they feel it’s not a big enough incentive to do so which is why we see the recycling aspect to the league too.

Here is a question how many in the NSL era would have developed in the same rate in the aleague era? 

a lot less becuz our development is shit and opportunities for young players to show there stuff is limited due to inability to quality for youth competitions. 

Why dont we qualify now? becuz we rarely have 11 good young players and we are up against countries pouring billions into youth development and at age 16-19 that extra $$$ goes a long way - ie you dont need to worry about studying/working etc.  In every generation we have 3-4 potentially really good players in the old system at least 2 of them were getting picked up every every big youth tournament we went though back in the day and being developed by good clubs in good leagues. 

Now these players aren't getting picked up till they are older >22 years old, too old for a lot of clubs to try mold into a top player. They end up in spuds leagues like China, Scotland etc and go no where. The AL is terrible at developing players bcuz there isnt any $$ in it for the clubs due to the salary cap. Thus Australia is shit at football probably the worst we have ever been (in my life time) regardless of qualifying for world cups we are absolute trash  

So players are still good enough to get picked for the national youth team, but because they are not playing an extra 3 or 4 games at a Youth WC all the ALeague coaches and scouts never hear about them till they are 22?
i think this says more about our domestic situation than it does about OFC or AFC?

I agree.....


But our domestic situation will always be the way it is bcuz of lack of $$$ - ppl have mentioned the lack of incentive to develop youth. The Top of Australian football the 'A-league' is 'cash strapped' 

We cant change the fact that we are almost 3rd world in-terms of $$ in football here in Australia but we are a paying 1st world prices for everything like stadium hire and marketing costs etc ...

But we’re not suppose to be unique lol

We're not NZ, Canada etc have similar problems 

but they arent stupid enough to leave there confederation for zero actually benefit.

You are unique, but definitely not in a good way.