I see.  Such  as ?

Bulldogs vs Carlton 

St George vs Cronulla

But   AFL    &   NRL   types    don't   watch   Soccer .

Right ?

My family and friends were all watching the Socceroos mate.... and have been for generations. You have to wonder why the new dawners have given up?

Man, we all wish for the game to move ahead for the better - if you can't understand why so many are not happy thats the issue at hand for those having "blinkers" on........
Your mention also your fam/friends electing to watch afl says it all for as mentioned the Roo game was so important for us but you people actually contributed to the afl viewing stats.
How many more down there do the same.
Imagine what added % to our football viewing would be IF the so called real football supporter down there opt out watching the afl and watched our football instead.
Mel bon (add in the other 2 afl states), says it all.

I came into the game at the end of the 90s when football was on its death bed. The mentality existed back then as to why football fans couldnt just pick an NSL team and we rescue the game together. But there was no incentive to do so. Its a bit like giving money to somebody with a drug habit just so they can waste it on drugs. If there is no willingness for the game to improve, then there is no incentive for fans to support it

Thats the situation the game is in today unfortunately. The FFA had the opportunity (several in fact) to grow the game, but instead they were hellbent on shoving the rubbish AFL / NRL salary capped model of teams taking it in turns winning titles. Its complete rubbish and the game is exactly where it deserves to be. If the FFA dont want to take the hard yards to try to make a competitive open league viable, and focus on get rich quick gimmicks, then fans dont have to support that

Its been a while since I last watched the Socceroos (possibly the world cup). No doubt this has been covered before .And dont mean to offend anybody. But out of every aspiring and up and coming talent that Australia has to offer, why is a 34 year old ex A League foreigner that was able to make a dint in a gimmick league one of our best options? I can guarentee you if this was a few years earlier we would have had Usain Bolt nationalised and playing too

The game is complete and utter rubbish. Fans can either continue to pump money into it to watch people destroy the game and paint the code into a corner. Or they can vote with their feet and put the onus back on the governing body to give us something palatable

The AFL / NRL model will never work for our game. Ever. If those in charge want to pull the "we're unique" line. Absolutely you're unique. Other football leagues have attendances and ratings

Out of curiosity what sort of "incentive" would you expect to follow a club?... I guess I can't relate to someone coming in to a sport and THEN having to find a team to support as club membership was/is a generational thing for me and my family, but curious to understand. 
On another note, as much as I bag the "plastic" Aleague relentlessly, I caught some of the Womens Grand Final on the weekend (by chance - channel surfing) and I was really pleased to see a bunch of 15-17 year old lads with flags and chanting etc supporting the Sydney womens team... it was cringey as fuck, granted,  BUT THAT IS WHAT CLUB LOYALTY is all about and there is some small hope for soccer in this country yet if that continues.

Sadly I agree on every point.
Very very sadly 

Carn the fckn Dees 

This seems like a loaded question so I'll answer in a few ways

If I give a homeless person $100k I'd expect them to use that money to turn their life around. There is no incentive for me to put money into the game just so I can see a rubbish closed off league of teams taking it in turns in winning and we can't even qualify through Asia. This just isn't football

Secondly in terms of incentive to follow a club - do you mean local, inter suburban, inter LGA, inter state, inter continental or inter national? What defines "my team" varies based on context and the fact is for the majority of us, particularly at the professional level, we choose a team to represent us (instead of having one represent us organically). And there is no shame in somebody following a dozen teams

People who have hard and fast rules on who somebody is allowed to follow sounds like they are forced into supporting a team and less of a fan than somebody who has picked a team they can enjoy watching. I dont live in a city that can ever hope to field a professional team. Whether I "pick" MV, MC, WU, or even SFC - its the same

Wasnt meant to be a loaded question at all. Sorry if it comes across as a way to set rules of who/why a team is supported.... totally not what I intended. 

More a case of (FOR ME and JUST ME) simply belonging to a club is the "payoff" or incentive for fandom. Not the result, or the conclusion of what my support leads towards if that makes sense. Australian Soccer can be a backyard sport forever and I will still follow the same club, dont care if its professional, ethnic, alien or what have you. Not sure Im getting my question across well? There is NO shame in following hundreds of teams, everyone appreciation of the true sport is different I agree but I dont get the concept of "I follow X club becuase I want Y competition to succeed" in my humble oppinion it should be "I follow club X because they are my favourite club and I identify with them because X, Y, Z, A, B and C"

I think both are correct

The success of the sport, the success of a league, and the success of a club are going to have different levels of importance to different people. Its possible to be a fan of one without being a fan of the other

If South Melbourne started playing the AFL tomorrow then South Melbourne fans might not say "this is my club, I'm going to follow it where ever it goes". While its true they followed South because of X, Y and Z. Its also true they followed the league because of X, Y and Z. If both are important then they might stop following the club. Thats the point I was making. Whatever attachments I may have held to Melbourne Victory, I can't stomach the current structure. Its fake, cheap, and not sport

its a real pity losing ol supporters like yourself BB2.
There are countless more that feel the same about of game locally like you and a good portion of them might I add are called eurosnobs.
Many used to be NSL supporters and in turn their next gen followed and where are they.
I know, I hear you.
I'm guilty having invested time and money in Lowys league - even though my family are football (local) followers/players I joined SFC for the kids more than anything else when young and despite sticking by NPL I thought lets help the game in the big picture.
Got to say the Syd derbies were top nights in the heydays. (that was our main point of diff to those other codes even though no P/R)
Boys have grown up and no interest whatsoever, my 17yr old still got interest due to firends of hers attend and she goes to a few games this season, I haven't gone to 1 but for a FFACup because it was against a NPL club.
Having people like Gallop involved turned it for the worse, set the rot and his boss's didn't care about anything else.
I've lost it now, I keep my eye on things etc more so for the Roos.

The best weapon for our game here is building up a healthy P/R comp the other codes would wish for, it could have should have with all the money that got into the game the last 10+ yrs its just so so sad.

Thanks for the reply, it was a sincere question.  Your point about South Melbourne dropping football and playing AFL is interesting. Personally I wouldn't follow  them ( SMFC playing football is part and parcel,of why I follow the club, take away one or the other and the point is moot) but I agree  many would....  My point was more around the connection to the club ( presuming the given that the sport being played is soccer)  and whether that ties in to what level of the game is being played. In Europe for example,  it is quite common to ride the fortunes of your club through the  many tiers of the football spectrum... a Norwich fan for example wouldn't say their are an EPL fan or a Sampdoria fan wouldn't say they are a SerieA fan... they are just Norwich or Sampdoria followers. They would obviously have a vested interest in the whole football ecosystem in England or Italy or wherever being successful but the "incentive" behind their support doesn't relate as much to it as the feeling of pride and euphoria over club success and the feeling of shared sorrow and solidarity over club failure....  I'm not trying  to dictate what does or doesn't  constitute true fandom or how everyone 'should' follow the game just wanted to get a perspective as I didn't have the choice of picking a sport and then picking a club to follow, it is a sort of "cradle to the grave" thing. The love of the beautiful game was taught as the one true dogma in my house and many others of those around me,  and rightfully so as there is nothing more pure and good in team athletic endeavour... Other sports are great and I appreciate AFL and basketball and NFL and  baseball...even ice hockey sometimes. While I have had to nominally pick teams in those sports just for the sake of having someone to cheer for in a contest, my "fandom" doesn't come with the proviso that the sport be well,run or successful or well,structured or whatever, it is more the other way around for example AFL being such a juggernaut in the southern states means I follow Richmond or that fact that NFL seems to be one of the best marketed sporting leagues globally made me aware of this new sport and made me want to engage by picking a team to connect. .... Your anology of giving money to a homeless person expecting them to turn their life around should have been, in my opinion, closer to you also being homeless and finding a nice warm corner under a bridge with all the rest of us deroes....... :)

The difference is that your club exists outside of the league, therefore you can follow them from league to league

I live in regional Victoria where there are dozens of football teams that represent me from the postcode level to the city level to the intercity level etc... So obviously I support all of them And as they bounce around various leagues I can follow them too

When the A League was established, as a fan of the game, I have to choose a team. As everybody does initially. See a league, choose a team. And follow them wherever they go. Same as if I decide to follow international leagues, or interstate leagues. Or any kind of sport really. Unless somebody's support is generational, then the likelihood is their support came through the game or the league itself first, and the club was second

My support for sport, support for the beautiful game, comes from the philosophy of what is sport. And to me sport is competitive. Its the best of the best (and in the professional game, despite common objection, this does involve money). Its not about structure. Its about concessions, rigged draws, smoke and mirrors. Its about telling teams "you're too good for the highest level this country has to offer, so we are going to punish you"

Perhaps a better analogy is the Stawell Gift vs the 100m sprint at the Olympics. For some people a fair sport is one where the rules are the same for everybody. For others a fair sport is the complicated puzzle of trying to make sure everybody has a chance of winning

I'll ask a different question: Will you support South Melbourne if every team they played against over the next 3 years were instructed to lose?

Damn fine question and one that is hard to answer.. Short answer is NO..... but MAYBE. Even considering such a strong loyalty, the lack of sporting integrity will make any match a farce and there is only so much you can turn a blind eye to. As a member and a tragic I demand the club perform at their best but part and parcel of that is the aspiration to constantly win everything on merit. If that merit comes through financial empowerment then so be it. Im not against clubs "buying the league" so to speak, as long as the opportunity is there for ALL clubs, should they choose to go down that path, can do so.  Thanks for the considered answers btw.

We are on the same page with this one

As a side note: When the amateur era was shifting into the semi professional era the fear was that big regions could simply lure players over to buy the league. If a star player lived in Ballarat, and there was money in Brisbane, then they will go to Brisbane for the money. It kind of robbed the league of its integrity because back then it was about which geography had which star talent

The fact is we have reached an age where player contracts are so lucrative that most if not all players can quit their job and relocate, surviving off the contract alone. And it is incentive to do so. In other words, every club is equally "buying the league". Geography doesn't mean anything

The professional game isn't competitively unfair. It is just different. In the same way access to resources used to determine which "inter" clubs won. Now its access to money. Any club that doesnt have access to money shouldn't be in the business of establishing a team in a professional league

Thats a little like putting the cart before the horse..... Someone said a while back that "a rising tide lifts all boats" Lowy made sure the old solid wooden boats had a very solid anchor before the financial tide rose and then went and sold his mates a whole bunch of inflatable dinghies :)

As I see it... lots more could be added but for me these are the key things...

Pre Paramount Key events

• Four Year Civil war.
• Part of the civil war even a large part was to attack the :A-L itself" and blame those in charge for creating such a league.
• A key and often unreported or not talked about aspect of the civil war was the effect it was having on key broadcasters and sponsors. 
• Rating and crowds collapsed but the A-L still had a lengthy media deal and time to reband after the civil war.
• Cov hit broadcast contract was cancelled, replaced by a contract about half the previous one and only one year.
• Sponsors, broadcasters, msm,  saw the free fall, and  cut back on their A-L involvement.

So tell us more about this "civil war" thats only been going on for 4 years mate.... How is everyone "outside the A league tent" responsible or to blame for the squabblings over money from those already inside it?
The blood from this death spiral is on the hands of the APL whichever way you cut it. The rest of football in Australia is on the outside looking in at this shitstorm and laughing.....

The civil war  was in the past when Lowy and co ran things...

Not sure if I blamed anyone either inside or outside the tent.... for our issues..

The only time I mentioned money was when I said the size of the media deal and it was the biggest ..

Your post implies I side with APL when in fact I listed only issues with APL never said one positive then about them aside from an implied reference to the media deal.

Not trying to be overly critical... but you seem to see a poster name and assume... or see a word and think that word is to be attacked... 

My message if there is one is constant negativity about any aspect of Football is insane to the overall health of the game... be that A-L or NSL or pre NSL...I sigh :(:(  the near constant internal politics in Football in Australia... its actually driving me away from the game... or joining in discussions....  

The game cannot grow if the product isn't good. Do you expect people to spend their hard earned to  go watch the slow paced, technically incompetent dross that gets displayed week in week out. The fault , as I see it, lies squarely on the clubs. They have the responsibility to train the players to an exceptable level and put the players onto the park playing at an elite level because this is our elite competition. 
It amazes me how everyone skirts around this important issue. Why don't people on here want to accept the obvious? The crowds are there, we've seen them in the past and please don't use the pandemic as an excuse as the game was declining before that arrived.

Sorry if you feel that way Mid, it is not a personal attack and its is a shame if the internal politics of who runs what and who makes money from what affects you so much. I just want you to understand that it is ludicrous to blame the people who have no connection with the Aleague for the death spiral it finds itself in now.... The "A-League fans and supporters" have abandoned the APL in droves NOT the other 2 million people engaged in football in this country that never watched the Aleague to begin with mate.....
6-7 years ago the Aleagua apparently was getting10k avg crowds and now no one is watching live or on TV....... dont know why as I never watched it in the first place but I doubt anyone left because they cared about who controlled the money the franchises where making..... this "civil,war" you keep mentioning only exist on internet forums, how/why is it stopping the average punter from watching? That's what the Silver Lake ISUZU mens and women's Aleague crowd need to figure out before the franchises run out of money .... personally I hope they cant.....

I never took it as a personal attack.... your above post cast all blame on for want of a better term new Football post the Lowy time... the NSL IMO was a basket case... often viewed thu rosy glasses... and my orginal post and this one is in no way defending the A_l... in fact if you read it its lists the problems... 

The issue for me as I have said for years now is near constant negativity and the toxic environment of Footballs internal politics and that almost everybody's fault..

I sometimes wonder aloud if there is a journalist left who can write positive articles without them being obvious puff pieces ... 

As a poster you seem to have chosen sides ... as if that's what its about ... 

In closing I also think many nay most nay almost everybody in Football seems to think the issues we have are an easy fix...when I see them as complex needing a total re think....

 

The Sydney Derby and the Original Rivalry were both on last night yet I can't find ratings for either.
According to mediaweek - "On 10, the top non-news program [last night] was a repeat of Farm to Fork with 103,000 viewers." (https://www.mediaweek.com.au/tv-ratings-april-2-2022-afl-pushes-seven-to-easy-win/)

Go to the A League fixtures moving forward. Look at the carnage the APL had allowed the Club owners to create. The matches are ALL OVER THE PLACE. You can't see one round from the next. CBS Viacom have every right to pack it in. Pay out the FA/APL and walk. This is what happens when you allow Clubs to be decision makers. Only a dictatorship will ever work, not a democratic system. This is why the State Federations Never allowed for progress over the chequered history of Ausralian Football/Soccer. 
About time APL grew a set and Forced Newcastle to play Sydney fc the other week. You don't play? Well, you don't get a chance to get the points next time. No postponement anymore!

I agree. The football is awful this season. But look at the coaches. What else would you expect?

Um you seem to be ignoring the big fat elephant in the room (and no I don't mean Chris Nikou that would be cruel to elephants) mate.....  The very fact that there ARE two sides is the problem here.... remember the launch of the Aleague and the whole "old Soccer vs new football" divide.... well that has never been repaired because first the Lowy family trust ( ooppps I mean the FFA) simply didn't want to and secondly, after Danny Townsend's foreign bosses gained their independence, they can't afford to unite all of soccer without continuing down the path of this self destructive ponzi scheme.....
Aleague is a niche market by its inception mate, thats what they don't understand. By their very own marketing over the years it is trying to appeal to people with no other ties to soccer in Australia or overseas, It doesn't want Eusosnobs or NSL bitters or State league numpties, it wants young, tech savy multi sport consumers...... and for a while it seems it had a few of them. For  
 whatever reason these "football but not as you know it" consumers are now abandoning ship by the hundreds. Why, I don't know but it is NOTHING to do with people who already didn't support the Aleague mate. Dont you get it we where NEVER counted among the viewers in the first place.... If the Sydney derby used to get 60k and now gets 10k those 50 thousand people who aren't there anymore are NOT "old soccer" or "NSL bitters" they are Aleague consumers who don't like the product anymore......

In general agreement but this lasted point I'd nail head. 
It was that attendance figure that finally signalled for me that the A league is finished as a meaningful commercial entity.
I don't know what comes next but the A League is done, the victim of unfathomable mismanagement, first by the Lowys and Gallop, then by the APL. 

Fair enough viewpoint by Mono, I don't think anyone can argue with the fact that old soccer was marginalised, even destroyed, so that something new could emerge with wider appeal, and that meant a closed shop league appealing to generic whitebread supporters.  Foreign owners, many of them anonymous, most probably from nations not exactly friendly to Australia now control the league.  You have to be honest, it's quite extraordinary that it has come to this.

After 8 consecutive years of declining attendances and ratings, the only comfort is that we are probably at rock bottom right now.

A bit of a dead cat bounce next season is possible.