Do you care what people think about the a league?


Do you care what people think about the a league?

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Melbcityguy
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The stigma around it not being a top league or that it’s a boring sport. 
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don't care per se, but it muddies the water, becomes very hard to work out who cares about the game progressing, and those who just don't care at all, or worse.

paladisious
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I just worry that nobody thinks about the A-League at all lol
Monoethnic Social Club
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Going by the attendance and viewers numbers I don't think many people "think" about the A-league at all mate.
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paladisious - 12 Jan 2021 11:37 AM
I just worry that nobody thinks about the A-League at all lol

:) sounds better coming from a bitter :)
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As somebody who is also a fan of women's sport it doesnt matter if I see the highest possible athletic people at the top of their game. All sport has the same drama, excitement, club connections, triumphs, fails etc... that makes sport something that consumes our weekends

So to me it doesnt matter that the A League isnt the EPL, it is still the premier Australian league and for the first 6 years of the competition it actually meant something to me

Where the A League lost it for me was taking the initial necessary (arguably) model and keeping it as "the" product. Sport, first and foremost, should be competitive. This tired formula of teams taking it in turns in winning so fans dont get sad just doesnt cut it for me. Its like letting your nephew beat you in chess

I enjoyed the W League in the early stages because even though there were only 1 or 2 competitive teams (those linked to Australian sports institutions), competition drives competition. Adelaide stepped up. Melbourne stepped up. Regions that didnt have much investment in the women's game stepped up, and the women's game as a whole has benefited. We see that in the Matildas. Now the league is more open and other teams can win it - because they earnt it (through one method or another). But the longer the W League goes on the more it is destined to be tarred with the same brush as the men's game (salary cap and other anti competitive measures so we can pretend regions are good)

I havent watched a single A League game this season. I tried and turned it off after 30 seconds. I dont even check the results. I havent renewed my membership and I'm not going to either. Rigged sport is just tedious. And while some may argue wages largely determines who wins in an open competition, thats the professional game. Thats a national game. Even in the semi professional and amateur era there is always one driver that makes a region stronger than the other

If you want balance, watch an under 12s local competition. If you want to see sport at the highest level in a country with a national framework, then accept that Gosford is not the best the country has to offer. If you can enjoy the world cup even though Australia cant win, but can improve that little bit each time, then you can enjoy the A League as a competitive league also
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bluebird2 - 12 Jan 2021 11:45 AM
As somebody who is also a fan of women's sport it doesnt matter if I see the highest possible athletic people at the top of their game. All sport has the same drama, excitement, club connections, triumphs, fails etc... that makes sport something that consumes our weekends

So to me it doesnt matter that the A League isnt the EPL, it is still the premier Australian league and for the first 6 years of the competition it actually meant something to me

Where the A League lost it for me was taking the initial necessary (arguably) model and keeping it as "the" product. Sport, first and foremost, should be competitive. This tired formula of teams taking it in turns in winning so fans dont get sad just doesnt cut it for me. Its like letting your nephew beat you in chess

I enjoyed the W League in the early stages because even though there were only 1 or 2 competitive teams (those linked to Australian sports institutions), competition drives competition. Adelaide stepped up. Melbourne stepped up. Regions that didnt have much investment in the women's game stepped up, and the women's game as a whole has benefited. We see that in the Matildas. Now the league is more open and other teams can win it - because they earnt it (through one method or another). But the longer the W League goes on the more it is destined to be tarred with the same brush as the men's game (salary cap and other anti competitive measures so we can pretend regions are good)

I havent watched a single A League game this season. I tried and turned it off after 30 seconds. I dont even check the results. I havent renewed my membership and I'm not going to either. Rigged sport is just tedious. And while some may argue wages largely determines who wins in an open competition, thats the professional game. Thats a national game. Even in the semi professional and amateur era there is always one driver that makes a region stronger than the other

If you want balance, watch an under 12s local competition. If you want to see sport at the highest level in a country with a national framework, then accept that Gosford is not the best the country has to offer. If you can enjoy the world cup even though Australia cant win, but can improve that little bit each time, then you can enjoy the A League as a competitive league also

Sorry but your narrative is counter-intuitive. You really enjoyed the A-League when the salary sap was strict. As the cap has been changed so that it doesn't reflect a cap at all you have lost interest as the larger teams dominate ever year.

Also what is your obsession with Gosford? CCM have still won more domestically than Perth, Wellington, Melbourne City, WSW, Newcastle as well as Western United and Macarthur of course. Only Sydney, Victory, Brisbane and Adelaide with their FFA cup wins has been more successful. When all of them have won more than CCM you can start your obsession again.  

BTW - I'm happy for the cap to go - just don't follow your argument 
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I happily watched Brisbane 1st Divison in the 1960's 70's and early 80's .
The standard (obviously) was way below EPL .
...but I enjoyed it because I had a club connection .

When you watch your kids play sport it is probably very amateurish but you love it because you have a connection to the game  ie your kids.

So when I watch Brisbane Roar I don't expect world class brilliance (although they do have their moments).
I am emotionally invested in my team so love all the games as long as my team is putting in an effort .

Sport does not have to be technically brilliant ...just emotionally brilliant .

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Monoethnic Social Club - 12 Jan 2021 11:38 AM
paladisious - 12 Jan 2021 11:37 AM

:) sounds better coming from a bitter :)

You snooze you lose haha
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miron mercedes - 12 Jan 2021 12:08 PM
I happily watched Brisbane 1st Divison in the 1960's 70's and early 80's .
The standard (obviously) was way below EPL .
...but I enjoyed it .
When you watch your kids play sport it is probably very amateurish but you love it because you have a connection to the game  ie your kids
.
So when I watch Brisbane Roar I don't expect world class brilliance (although they do have their moments).
I am emotionally invested in my team so love all the games as long as my team is putting in an effort .

Sport does not have to be technically brilliant ...just emotionally brilliant .

And that's why VAR should be no part of it. It takes away from the emotional response to the game.
Roar in me Blood
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No.

When we have a product that generates its own demand those who don't care about the league now may get drawn in.

Until then, it is our top level competition and as long as I have a team in it I will be interested myself. The best players will generally strive to play in the top flight of any sport to prove themselves against their peers. The best teams will generally strive to play in the top flight of their sport to prove that they should be there (Hi Mono). The aleague and wleague are the top level of 'domestic' football in this country. People will argue happily about whether that means the best players or not - but I do not believe anyone seriously disputes that these leagues are the top level competition in the country. People's opinions will not change that for me.

I would say a lot of the people who don't care about the aleague don't care about soccer/football as a spectator sport at the domestic level. They may play it and love that without feeling any interest in going to watch others play it other than to watch our national team.

Those who do go or have previously gone regularly to aleague matches are the people whose thoughts I find relevant - but only as far as learning what works or does not work with the game or league.

This branch of the forum is based on what people think about the aleague - wouldn't read and post here if I did not care what they think.

When I wear their colours, I am the club.

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patjennings - 12 Jan 2021 12:07 PM
bluebird2 - 12 Jan 2021 11:45 AM

Sorry but your narrative is counter-intuitive. You really enjoyed the A-League when the salary sap was strict. As the cap has been changed so that it doesn't reflect a cap at all you have lost interest as the larger teams dominate ever year.

Also what is your obsession with Gosford? CCM have still won more domestically than Perth, Wellington, Melbourne City, WSW, Newcastle as well as Western United and Macarthur of course. Only Sydney, Victory, Brisbane and Adelaide with their FFA cup wins has been more successful. When all of them have won more than CCM you can start your obsession again.  

BTW - I'm happy for the cap to go - just don't follow your argument 

When the A League first launched there were only 2 regions with money for a game with zero interest. Setting up a professional national competition with 1 team per city and only 2 teams with money is destined for a Scotland scenario. Rightfully or wrongly, a salary cap helped distribute the players equally amongst the clubs to help the league grow a national professional status when the game had no money. It was only short term until the comp could get regions with more money (like they did with Gold Coast and TV deals), and also with more clubs from big cities. In my opinion, the initial league was a necessary evil, and with the salary cap largely a placebo I think the competition was "truer"

The A League failed to move to the second step. It instead decided to box, label and package the initial league. The longer it goes, the more fake and transparent it becomes. Particularly as the players we are seeing are of a higher caliber than Muscat at the end of his career and Yorke at the end of his

As for CCM, yes they have been successful, because we dont have an open league. We have already seen them fall off the pace with minimal allowances. This is literally the point I am making. You can boast about the success of CCM in a national league and the highest honours they have won because the league allows it. We let our nephew win a chess game

I dont have a problem with CCM, Newcastle, Wollongong, Geelong or any regional team. I want to see them in the A League and wish them the best. The issue I have is they need to compete on their own merits and in the professional game that is player investment. Not rules prohibiting a club from signing too many good players so constant disruption forces an artificial shuffle each year
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Roar in me Blood - 12 Jan 2021 12:13 PM
No.

When we have a product that generates its own demand those who don't care about the league now may get drawn in.

Until then, it is our top level competition and as long as I have a team in it I will be interested myself. The best players will generally strive to play in the top flight of any sport to prove themselves against their peers. The best teams will generally strive to play in the top flight of their sport to prove that they should be there (Hi Mono). The aleague and wleague are the top level of 'domestic' football in this country. People will argue happily about whether that means the best players or not - but I do not believe anyone seriously disputes that these leagues are the top level competition in the country. People's opinions will not change that for me.

I would say a lot of the people who don't care about the aleague don't care about soccer/football as a spectator sport at the domestic level. They may play it and love that without feeling any interest in going to watch others play it other than to watch our national team.

Those who do go or have previously gone regularly to aleague matches are the people whose thoughts I find relevant - but only as far as learning what works or does not work with the game or league.

This branch of the forum is based on what people think about the aleague - wouldn't read and post here if I did not care what they think.

Hey Roar IMB, Happy New Year. Absolutely agree that the best teams will strive to play at the highest possible level, bit hard to do when you have been actively prevented from doing so for 16 years though wouldn't you say?

"I would say a lot of the people who don't care about the aleague don't care about soccer/football as a spectator sport at the domestic level. They may play it and love that without feeling any interest in going to watch others play it other than to watch our national team."

I dont agree with your comment above though at all mate, sorry. I have been caring about soccer in this country for at least 40 years and have been a very present spectator for a huge chunk of that. Not caring about a closed off "league" of 10-12 odd teams doesnt mean that I wont follow my club whatever level they are in. If by some miracle of miracles that means we find ourselves in the A-League, will my opinions then automatically become relevant?


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Melbcityguy - 12 Jan 2021 11:10 AM
The stigma around it not being a top league or that it’s a boring sport. 

Most Aussies don’t care about Football, period.
They don’t watch the A League or any football for that matter.
I do however think the mainstream media invisibility, negative reporting and narrative of low quality does stop people from engaging or trying to watch.

We do have some people that watch the EPL or Champions League, many because of the ‘cool’ factor, many because they are immigrants (many British) or foreign students or workers. 

I would suggest that virtually no-one watches EPL or Champions League solely or even mostly because the quality of the league is at or near the top of club football.

Then you have the NPL types who don’t care about football but just identify with their NPL club because Grandpa used to play for them, or they can enjoy the cultural events of the club.

Then you have the foreign students or workers who are encouraged to watch AFL/NRL and told the A League is not worth it and don’t have time to include it in their schedule.

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MarkfromCroydon - 12 Jan 2021 1:26 PM
Melbcityguy - 12 Jan 2021 11:10 AM

Most Aussies don’t care about Football, period.
They don’t watch the A League or any football for that matter.
I do however think the mainstream media invisibility, negative reporting and narrative of low quality does stop people from engaging or trying to watch.

We do have some people that watch the EPL or Champions League, many because of the ‘cool’ factor, many because they are immigrants (many British) or foreign students or workers. 

I would suggest that virtually no-one watches EPL or Champions League solely or even mostly because the quality of the league is at or near the top of club football.

Then you have the NPL types who don’t care about football but just identify with their NPL club because Grandpa used to play for them, or they can enjoy the cultural events of the club.

Then you have the foreign students or workers who are encouraged to watch AFL/NRL and told the A League is not worth it and don’t have time to include it in their schedule.

Well said 
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Melbcityguy - 12 Jan 2021 1:28 PM
MarkfromCroydon - 12 Jan 2021 1:26 PM

Well said 

"Then you have the NPL types who don’t care about football but just identify with their NPL club because Grandpa used to play for them, or they can enjoy the cultural events of the club."

Interesting statement there, what cultural events are you both talking about? Id love to attend.
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I was in Barcelona catching up with a group of friends a couple of years back and Barcelona v Atletico Madrid was on while I was in town, so of course like any football fan would I got tickets, €74 to sit up the top tier of the Camp Nou but it was well worth it, Messi, Neymar, Iniesta, Griezmann, Suarez, Torres, etc. all there. I enjoyed it immensely, but I remember while the game was on thinking to myself "I can't wait for the season to start once I'm back home and I can watch the Victory again". That's my team, and that's who I will be at every game I can be for, regardless of whether we're in the news every night and pulling 50k crowds again or if the league folds and it's just me and 20 other people watching them in State League 3. I don't need anybody else to understand that, or care about it.

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paladisious - 12 Jan 2021 1:50 PM
I was in Barcelona catching up with a group of friends a couple of years back and Barcelona v Atletico Madrid was on while I was in town, so of course like any football fan would I got tickets, €74 to sit up the top tier of the Camp Nou but it was well worth it, Messi, Neymar, Iniesta, Griezmann, Suarez, Torres, etc. all there. I enjoyed it immensely, but I remember while the game was on thinking to myself "I can't wait for the season to start once I'm back home and I can watch the Victory again". That's my team, and that's who I will be at every game I can be for, regardless of whether we're in the news every night and pulling 50k crowds again or if the league folds and it's just me and 20 other people watching them in State League 3. I don't need anybody else to understand that, or care about it.

1,000,000% agree.  
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Well said!!
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paladisious - 12 Jan 2021 1:50 PM
I was in Barcelona catching up with a group of friends a couple of years back and Barcelona v Atletico Madrid was on while I was in town, so of course like any football fan would I got tickets, €74 to sit up the top tier of the Camp Nou but it was well worth it, Messi, Neymar, Iniesta, Griezmann, Suarez, Torres, etc. all there. I enjoyed it immensely, but I remember while the game was on thinking to myself "I can't wait for the season to start once I'm back home and I can watch the Victory again". That's my team, and that's who I will be at every game I can be for, regardless of whether we're in the news every night and pulling 50k crowds again or if the league folds and it's just me and 20 other people watching them in State League 3. I don't need anybody else to understand that, or care about it.

The interesting thing about those types of fixtures is that the crowd is majority international tourists just like yourself. I've heard that the El Clásico is almost all tourists. Which is great for the tourists, however it would suck being a local life long fan and never being able to go to your club's big derby because the tourist dollars drive the price up. Being able to attend all of your club's home games is definitely something that we take for granted sometimes.
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someguyjc - 12 Jan 2021 2:58 PM
paladisious - 12 Jan 2021 1:50 PM

The interesting thing about those types of fixtures is that the crowd is majority international tourists just like yourself. I've heard that the El Clásico is almost all tourists. Which is great for the tourists, however it would suck being a local life long fan and never being able to go to your club's big derby because the tourist dollars drive the price up. Being able to attend all of your club's home games is definitely something that we take for granted sometimes.

Absolutely that’s why sometimes it’s nicer seeing an a league game in 10k stadium then a European giant. I’m sure there are people in England who follow the lower leagues instead of the top divisions 
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Monoethnic Social Club - 12 Jan 2021 12:50 PM
Roar in me Blood - 12 Jan 2021 12:13 PM

Hey Roar IMB, Happy New Year. Absolutely agree that the best teams will strive to play at the highest possible level, bit hard to do when you have been actively prevented from doing so for 16 years though wouldn't you say?

"I would say a lot of the people who don't care about the aleague don't care about soccer/football as a spectator sport at the domestic level. They may play it and love that without feeling any interest in going to watch others play it other than to watch our national team."

I dont agree with your comment above though at all mate, sorry. I have been caring about soccer in this country for at least 40 years and have been a very present spectator for a huge chunk of that. Not caring about a closed off "league" of 10-12 odd teams doesnt mean that I wont follow my club whatever level they are in. If by some miracle of miracles that means we find ourselves in the A-League, will my opinions then automatically become relevant?


My contention was that most people in this country don't care about the aleague or football as a spectator sport. The second part was to say that a subset of those people may even enjoy playing the game itself. The participation rate in football is huge - but the crowds aren't, relative to the numbers who do play (my opinion and not necessarily fact - happy to hear otherwise).

I excluded the national team because we effectively get sell out crowds at the national level putting them in a category of their own.

I agree that many people DO go to their clubs games, and was not meaning you have to support an aleague club or the aleague itself to have relevant opinions on football itself.

When I said "Those who do go or have previously gone regularly to aleague matches are the people whose thoughts I find relevant - but only as far as learning what works or does not work with the game or league" I was referring to the topic specifically. I only really care about the aleague opinions of those who have been involved in it in some way. I don't care what people may think about the aleague if they have not been to or watched many aleague games.

When I wear their colours, I am the club.

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Roar in me Blood - 12 Jan 2021 3:36 PM
Monoethnic Social Club - 12 Jan 2021 12:50 PM

My contention was that most people in this country don't care about the aleague or football as a spectator sport. The second part was to say that a subset of those people may even enjoy playing the game itself. The participation rate in football is huge - but the crowds aren't, relative to the numbers who do play (my opinion and not necessarily fact - happy to hear otherwise).

I excluded the national team because we effectively get sell out crowds at the national level putting them in a category of their own.

I agree that many people DO go to their clubs games, and was not meaning you have to support an aleague club or the aleague itself to have relevant opinions on football itself.

When I said "Those who do go or have previously gone regularly to aleague matches are the people whose thoughts I find relevant - but only as far as learning what works or does not work with the game or league" I was referring to the topic specifically. I only really care about the aleague opinions of those who have been involved in it in some way. I don't care what people may think about the aleague if they have not been to or watched many aleague games.

Thanks for clarifying.
In this I agree and part of the reason why franchising insistence on geographical placement of teams based on population and participation, in my opinion doesn't work. The whole insistence of building a fan base where there are young families, or growth corridors of football mad immigrants is pie in the sky marketing stuff for me.. Also I agree, my opinions on anything Aleague are purely as a disinterested outsider if anything., but that does not take away my right to care about the state of the game in this country or attend as many games as I can get away with every season to support my club.  You should care what people like me think about the A-league though as "fish where the fish are" and "converting the mainstream AFL and NRL masses" hasn't worked.  You catch more flies with honey mate, and blaming Eurosnobs and NSL dinosaurs for the woes of the A-League isnt going to make them go away.
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someguyjc - 12 Jan 2021 2:58 PM
paladisious - 12 Jan 2021 1:50 PM

The interesting thing about those types of fixtures is that the crowd is majority international tourists just like yourself. I've heard that the El Clásico is almost all tourists. Which is great for the tourists, however it would suck being a local life long fan and never being able to go to your club's big derby because the tourist dollars drive the price up. Being able to attend all of your club's home games is definitely something that we take for granted sometimes.

Yeah I'm pretty sure the top tier were all tourists or out of town fans, while members were in the lower tiers. I was chatting to a club member/season ticket holder on metro on the way to the game, he showed me his card. Their active support was sizable but not huge, which I found odd, and even more oddly I couldn't discern any away support at all.
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Monoethnic Social Club - 12 Jan 2021 4:12 PM
Roar in me Blood - 12 Jan 2021 3:36 PM

Thanks for clarifying.
In this I agree and part of the reason why franchising insistence on geographical placement of teams based on population and participation, in my opinion doesn't work. The whole insistence of building a fan base where there are young families, or growth corridors of football mad immigrants is pie in the sky marketing stuff for me.. Also I agree, my opinions on anything Aleague are purely as a disinterested outsider if anything., but that does not take away my right to care about the state of the game in this country or attend as many games as I can get away with every season to support my club.  You should care what people like me think about the A-league though as "fish where the fish are" and "converting the mainstream AFL and NRL masses" hasn't worked.  You catch more flies with honey mate, and blaming Eurosnobs and NSL dinosaurs for the woes of the A-League isnt going to make them go away.

We have to improve the flavour of our honey before we worry about selling it to people who have grown up eating their own local honey though.

I do not believe you personally are likely to have any real interest in the aleague until your club, or one you can accept deserves your loyalty, is in the aleague. It would have to be a team without historic enmity towards your club to overcome 40 odd years of died in the wool support. Hmm - perhaps some new franchises without historic ties to existing NSL clubs would be a palatable team to follow. This way madness lies, does it not?

I do not say your opinion of the aleague is irrelevant - just that I honestly don't care if you hate it, ignore it, or secretly respect and admire it; unless you watch it or attend their games regularly enough to have an opinion based on (current) experience with the league.

Some of this discussion has been had in another thread sometime back along the lines of "would you support the aleague if your team was kicked out of it?". I know if the Roar was out I would have real trouble following another team and probably both despise the aleague and ignore it at the same time. At that point, from the perspective of an aleague supporter, I would no longer care what I thought about the aleague.

Bottom line - I want our league to continue to improve to the point that it becomes attractive to a wider and broader community without using baits and lures. I am seeing improvement across several teams this season in terms of players, playing style and the introduction of new exciting faces. Improved football can lead to the return of jaded supporters and generate more community momentum than an advertising campaign or set of steak knives. That is why I am not worried about other (external) opinions at this point in time. We need our league to become more attractive before we can hold more than a cursory viewing, and I think we are heading in the right direction.

When I wear their colours, I am the club.

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Roar in me Blood - 12 Jan 2021 5:28 PM
Monoethnic Social Club - 12 Jan 2021 4:12 PM

We have to improve the flavour of our honey before we worry about selling it to people who have grown up eating their own local honey though.

I do not believe you personally are likely to have any real interest in the aleague until your club, or one you can accept deserves your loyalty, is in the aleague. It would have to be a team without historic enmity towards your club to overcome 40 odd years of died in the wool support. Hmm - perhaps some new franchises without historic ties to existing NSL clubs would be a palatable team to follow. This way madness lies, does it not?

I do not say your opinion of the aleague is irrelevant - just that I honestly don't care if you hate it, ignore it, or secretly respect and admire it; unless you watch it or attend their games regularly enough to have an opinion based on (current) experience with the league.

Some of this discussion has been had in another thread sometime back along the lines of "would you support the aleague if your team was kicked out of it?". I know if the Roar was out I would have real trouble following another team and probably both despise the aleague and ignore it at the same time. At that point, from the perspective of an aleague supporter, I would no longer care what I thought about the aleague.

Bottom line - I want our league to continue to improve to the point that it becomes attractive to a wider and broader community without using baits and lures. I am seeing improvement across several teams this season in terms of players, playing style and the introduction of new exciting faces. Improved football can lead to the return of jaded supporters and generate more community momentum than an advertising campaign or set of steak knives. That is why I am not worried about other (external) opinions at this point in time. We need our league to become more attractive before we can hold more than a cursory viewing, and I think we are heading in the right direction.

No you right, it is only my club or nothing. ... absolutely,  but as I mentioned in the previous thread a mechanism that allowed for at least a form of aspirational hope for myself and others of my inclination, perhaps might lead to a passing interest rather than pure disdain. Improve your honey all you want brother, at the end of the day its still just honey.⚽️
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paladisious - 12 Jan 2021 4:59 PM
someguyjc - 12 Jan 2021 2:58 PM

Yeah I'm pretty sure the top tier were all tourists or out of town fans, while members were in the lower tiers. I was chatting to a club member/season ticket holder on metro on the way to the game, he showed me his card. Their active support was sizable but not huge, which I found odd, and even more oddly I couldn't discern any away support at all.

For whatever reason, Spanish clubs just don't do away support. They religiously watch their team at home but can't be arsed travelling for a game even if it is 50km away, so the home club barely makes provision for away fans. Big Champions League games are an exception.
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Melbcityguy - 12 Jan 2021 1:28 PM
MarkfromCroydon - 12 Jan 2021 1:26 PM

Well said 

'They are told', well, that's where the Apl has the opportunity now to initiate progressive change and just market their teams and league so it's profile starts to subtly rise.
Unbundling has caused a ceasefire with infighting, it seems anyway.
All the talk of recent times, and I agree, is how good the football has been so the players and coaches are playing their part.
Further expansion needs to occur next, infact Apl should choose a further two teams for the 2022-23 season.
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It’s live football in prime time on the weekend I can cook/bbq and have some beers and watch football. Who cares about the make up of the league or the clubs. Just watch the damn game and be happy you don’t have to get up at 3am. 
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Coverdale - 13 Jan 2021 7:45 AM
It’s live football in prime time on the weekend I can cook/bbq and have some beers and watch football. Who cares about the make up of the league or the clubs. Just watch the damn game and be happy you don’t have to get up at 3am. 

If you dont care about the clubs in the league, who do you watch, just whatever they show you??? 
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