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bluebird2
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 648,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAs somebody who is also a fan of women's sport it doesnt matter if I see the highest possible athletic people at the top of their game. All sport has the same drama, excitement, club connections, triumphs, fails etc... that makes sport something that consumes our weekends So to me it doesnt matter that the A League isnt the EPL, it is still the premier Australian league and for the first 6 years of the competition it actually meant something to me
Where the A League lost it for me was taking the initial necessary (arguably) model and keeping it as "the" product. Sport, first and foremost, should be competitive. This tired formula of teams taking it in turns in winning so fans dont get sad just doesnt cut it for me. Its like letting your nephew beat you in chess I enjoyed the W League in the early stages because even though there were only 1 or 2 competitive teams (those linked to Australian sports institutions), competition drives competition. Adelaide stepped up. Melbourne stepped up. Regions that didnt have much investment in the women's game stepped up, and the women's game as a whole has benefited. We see that in the Matildas. Now the league is more open and other teams can win it - because they earnt it (through one method or another). But the longer the W League goes on the more it is destined to be tarred with the same brush as the men's game (salary cap and other anti competitive measures so we can pretend regions are good) I havent watched a single A League game this season. I tried and turned it off after 30 seconds. I dont even check the results. I havent renewed my membership and I'm not going to either. Rigged sport is just tedious. And while some may argue wages largely determines who wins in an open competition, thats the professional game. Thats a national game. Even in the semi professional and amateur era there is always one driver that makes a region stronger than the other If you want balance, watch an under 12s local competition. If you want to see sport at the highest level in a country with a national framework, then accept that Gosford is not the best the country has to offer. If you can enjoy the world cup even though Australia cant win, but can improve that little bit each time, then you can enjoy the A League as a competitive league also Sorry but your narrative is counter-intuitive. You really enjoyed the A-League when the salary sap was strict. As the cap has been changed so that it doesn't reflect a cap at all you have lost interest as the larger teams dominate ever year. Also what is your obsession with Gosford? CCM have still won more domestically than Perth, Wellington, Melbourne City, WSW, Newcastle as well as Western United and Macarthur of course. Only Sydney, Victory, Brisbane and Adelaide with their FFA cup wins has been more successful. When all of them have won more than CCM you can start your obsession again. BTW - I'm happy for the cap to go - just don't follow your argument When the A League first launched there were only 2 regions with money for a game with zero interest. Setting up a professional national competition with 1 team per city and only 2 teams with money is destined for a Scotland scenario. Rightfully or wrongly, a salary cap helped distribute the players equally amongst the clubs to help the league grow a national professional status when the game had no money. It was only short term until the comp could get regions with more money (like they did with Gold Coast and TV deals), and also with more clubs from big cities. In my opinion, the initial league was a necessary evil, and with the salary cap largely a placebo I think the competition was "truer" The A League failed to move to the second step. It instead decided to box, label and package the initial league. The longer it goes, the more fake and transparent it becomes. Particularly as the players we are seeing are of a higher caliber than Muscat at the end of his career and Yorke at the end of his As for CCM, yes they have been successful, because we dont have an open league. We have already seen them fall off the pace with minimal allowances. This is literally the point I am making. You can boast about the success of CCM in a national league and the highest honours they have won because the league allows it. We let our nephew win a chess game I dont have a problem with CCM, Newcastle, Wollongong, Geelong or any regional team. I want to see them in the A League and wish them the best. The issue I have is they need to compete on their own merits and in the professional game that is player investment. Not rules prohibiting a club from signing too many good players so constant disruption forces an artificial shuffle each year Are you aware what would happen if the cap was removed, Crowd numbers would dwindle, scores more predictable, clubs less profitable, team numbers would reduce, talent coming through this would reduce, less qualification on an international stage as there is less talent, and Australia moves down the footballing ladder. Thats nothing more than fear based worst case scenario speculation Crowds have dwindled, attendances have dropped, clubs are less profitable, broadcasters arent bidding for our game, talent has dropped off, we are risking not qualifying even though Asia, we are poor in the ACL, football has moved down the ladder - and all of this was before COVID, and all with a salary cap Its ridiculous to think that Australia doesnt have the money and interest in a national competitive league based on choices made by two codes when they became professional. If the cap was dropped some of the teams in the A League will be the biggest football clubs of any code in this country. Your prediction - less interest. Less profit. Less talent etc... Based on what? You're kidding yourself if you think 12 teams the size of CCM is going to drive up interest, profit and talent. In fact spreading the best players across 12 clubs means even more diluted talent for the bigger clubs. Things are only going to get worse as we add more teams All this is based off your opinion. If you want to see what happens when finances aren't regulated have a look at the dying days of the NSL, club turn over was next level. Your view point is so much recycled and "copy and paste" from a previous era that you think the flaws of the game that I pointed out above are my opinion Secondly you think taking a single maximum figure and applying it to player salaries only is going to stop clubs from going broke. If the salary cap is about financial regulation then why is it the same for the big clubs as it is for the small clubs? Why have we seen A League clubs go broke, several might I add, despite a salary cap? Also you throw in the classic NSL line. You do realise that the NSL was a semi professional league with no major TV deal or commercial backing?Every single flaw you have pointed out in removing the salary cap is a fact of the current game. You dont know what it does. You just know our code will die without one Wasn't the Phillips Soccer League and Coca-Cola Soccer League shown on channel 10. I think Eddie Everywhere may have also been involved. The key word was "major" Soccer Australia had a TV deal and I think it was $1mil in total for 7 years That was a long time ago in an era of inflation and at least was on a major channel. What would that be in 2005 when the first season of the A-League got $750000 on subscription TV? Realistically that NSL TV deal had better access and was better value than the first A-League deal. Thats right. When the A League started, football had no value. The code was dead and buried, people were skeptical, and even a club like Melbourne was put on a deal where they could slowly pay the FFA back for their licence This is what I meant before when I said the initial A League was a necessary evil. People use today's support and interest as a paradox to say what the first year of the A League should have looked like. But everything stemmed from a 1 city, 1 club model. Consolidated support and sponsorship, a sound commercial model, and when things started to pay off - a serious TV deal But as I said, the initial A League was a first step. There wasnt 2 teams from big cities but people knew there would be. There wasnt a womens or youth league but people knew there would be. There wasnt a second tier but people knew there would be. All of this was part of the initial vision Once the FFA started to see the size of the dollars rolling in they decided the initial A League was the product and thats what they have been trying to sell ever since. And along with thats sales pitch comes the fear that if we dont follow the strict script set out for top tier football codes in this country the game will die. What a load of shit We have (had?) the amount of money in our game that we always dreamed of. And instead of building a sensible football model with big clubs, success in Asia, and improvement at the top level, we have ended up as a light weight AFL / NRL played with a round ball
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Melbcityguy
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.3K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAs somebody who is also a fan of women's sport it doesnt matter if I see the highest possible athletic people at the top of their game. All sport has the same drama, excitement, club connections, triumphs, fails etc... that makes sport something that consumes our weekends So to me it doesnt matter that the A League isnt the EPL, it is still the premier Australian league and for the first 6 years of the competition it actually meant something to me
Where the A League lost it for me was taking the initial necessary (arguably) model and keeping it as "the" product. Sport, first and foremost, should be competitive. This tired formula of teams taking it in turns in winning so fans dont get sad just doesnt cut it for me. Its like letting your nephew beat you in chess I enjoyed the W League in the early stages because even though there were only 1 or 2 competitive teams (those linked to Australian sports institutions), competition drives competition. Adelaide stepped up. Melbourne stepped up. Regions that didnt have much investment in the women's game stepped up, and the women's game as a whole has benefited. We see that in the Matildas. Now the league is more open and other teams can win it - because they earnt it (through one method or another). But the longer the W League goes on the more it is destined to be tarred with the same brush as the men's game (salary cap and other anti competitive measures so we can pretend regions are good) I havent watched a single A League game this season. I tried and turned it off after 30 seconds. I dont even check the results. I havent renewed my membership and I'm not going to either. Rigged sport is just tedious. And while some may argue wages largely determines who wins in an open competition, thats the professional game. Thats a national game. Even in the semi professional and amateur era there is always one driver that makes a region stronger than the other If you want balance, watch an under 12s local competition. If you want to see sport at the highest level in a country with a national framework, then accept that Gosford is not the best the country has to offer. If you can enjoy the world cup even though Australia cant win, but can improve that little bit each time, then you can enjoy the A League as a competitive league also Sorry but your narrative is counter-intuitive. You really enjoyed the A-League when the salary sap was strict. As the cap has been changed so that it doesn't reflect a cap at all you have lost interest as the larger teams dominate ever year. Also what is your obsession with Gosford? CCM have still won more domestically than Perth, Wellington, Melbourne City, WSW, Newcastle as well as Western United and Macarthur of course. Only Sydney, Victory, Brisbane and Adelaide with their FFA cup wins has been more successful. When all of them have won more than CCM you can start your obsession again. BTW - I'm happy for the cap to go - just don't follow your argument When the A League first launched there were only 2 regions with money for a game with zero interest. Setting up a professional national competition with 1 team per city and only 2 teams with money is destined for a Scotland scenario. Rightfully or wrongly, a salary cap helped distribute the players equally amongst the clubs to help the league grow a national professional status when the game had no money. It was only short term until the comp could get regions with more money (like they did with Gold Coast and TV deals), and also with more clubs from big cities. In my opinion, the initial league was a necessary evil, and with the salary cap largely a placebo I think the competition was "truer" The A League failed to move to the second step. It instead decided to box, label and package the initial league. The longer it goes, the more fake and transparent it becomes. Particularly as the players we are seeing are of a higher caliber than Muscat at the end of his career and Yorke at the end of his As for CCM, yes they have been successful, because we dont have an open league. We have already seen them fall off the pace with minimal allowances. This is literally the point I am making. You can boast about the success of CCM in a national league and the highest honours they have won because the league allows it. We let our nephew win a chess game I dont have a problem with CCM, Newcastle, Wollongong, Geelong or any regional team. I want to see them in the A League and wish them the best. The issue I have is they need to compete on their own merits and in the professional game that is player investment. Not rules prohibiting a club from signing too many good players so constant disruption forces an artificial shuffle each year Are you aware what would happen if the cap was removed, Crowd numbers would dwindle, scores more predictable, clubs less profitable, team numbers would reduce, talent coming through this would reduce, less qualification on an international stage as there is less talent, and Australia moves down the footballing ladder. Thats nothing more than fear based worst case scenario speculation Crowds have dwindled, attendances have dropped, clubs are less profitable, broadcasters arent bidding for our game, talent has dropped off, we are risking not qualifying even though Asia, we are poor in the ACL, football has moved down the ladder - and all of this was before COVID, and all with a salary cap Its ridiculous to think that Australia doesnt have the money and interest in a national competitive league based on choices made by two codes when they became professional. If the cap was dropped some of the teams in the A League will be the biggest football clubs of any code in this country. Your prediction - less interest. Less profit. Less talent etc... Based on what? You're kidding yourself if you think 12 teams the size of CCM is going to drive up interest, profit and talent. In fact spreading the best players across 12 clubs means even more diluted talent for the bigger clubs. Things are only going to get worse as we add more teams All this is based off your opinion. If you want to see what happens when finances aren't regulated have a look at the dying days of the NSL, club turn over was next level. Your view point is so much recycled and "copy and paste" from a previous era that you think the flaws of the game that I pointed out above are my opinion Secondly you think taking a single maximum figure and applying it to player salaries only is going to stop clubs from going broke. If the salary cap is about financial regulation then why is it the same for the big clubs as it is for the small clubs? Why have we seen A League clubs go broke, several might I add, despite a salary cap? Also you throw in the classic NSL line. You do realise that the NSL was a semi professional league with no major TV deal or commercial backing?Every single flaw you have pointed out in removing the salary cap is a fact of the current game. You dont know what it does. You just know our code will die without one Wasn't the Phillips Soccer League and Coca-Cola Soccer League shown on channel 10. I think Eddie Everywhere may have also been involved. The key word was "major" Soccer Australia had a TV deal and I think it was $1mil in total for 7 years That was a long time ago in an era of inflation and at least was on a major channel. What would that be in 2005 when the first season of the A-League got $750000 on subscription TV? Realistically that NSL TV deal had better access and was better value than the first A-League deal. Thats right. When the A League started, football had no value. The code was dead and buried, people were skeptical, and even a club like Melbourne was put on a deal where they could slowly pay the FFA back for their licence This is what I meant before when I said the initial A League was a necessary evil. People use today's support and interest as a paradox to say what the first year of the A League should have looked like. But everything stemmed from a 1 city, 1 club model. Consolidated support and sponsorship, a sound commercial model, and when things started to pay off - a serious TV deal But as I said, the initial A League was a first step. There wasnt 2 teams from big cities but people knew there would be. There wasnt a womens or youth league but people knew there would be. There wasnt a second tier but people knew there would be. All of this was part of the initial vision Once the FFA started to see the size of the dollars rolling in they decided the initial A League was the product and thats what they have been trying to sell ever since. And along with thats sales pitch comes the fear that if we dont follow the strict script set out for top tier football codes in this country the game will die. What a load of shit We have (had?) the amount of money in our game that we always dreamed of. And instead of building a sensible football model with big clubs, success in Asia, and improvement at the top level, we have ended up as a light weight AFL / NRL played with a round ball So basically we should be aiming to let our clubs become the Real Madrid of Asia?
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robbos
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.5K,
Visits: 0
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Being a SFC fan, I hated the RBB, well maybe hate too much, but the derby rivalry was amazing, as good as what you would see in the stronger football loving O/S countries even though it was a little lopsided, as they had more fans.
Also, disliked the Victory fans too, but they came up in numbers & the Sydney v Melbourne rivalry was huge.
What happened was we were too worried, the admin worried about what others were talking about the A-League & instead of defending it's fans, the FFA under Gallop shut them up.
Crowds have fallen ever since.
So in answer to your question no I don't care what the other codes, the lovers of the O/S leagues & the old NSL people think of the A-league.
I have followed football in this country since the as a little boy I was watching the Socceroos on TV in Germany, I have my O/S teams, but the only teams that is in my blood & I kick every ball in every game & totally have unbiased views on are the Socceroos & SFC.
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huddo
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAs somebody who is also a fan of women's sport it doesnt matter if I see the highest possible athletic people at the top of their game. All sport has the same drama, excitement, club connections, triumphs, fails etc... that makes sport something that consumes our weekends So to me it doesnt matter that the A League isnt the EPL, it is still the premier Australian league and for the first 6 years of the competition it actually meant something to me
Where the A League lost it for me was taking the initial necessary (arguably) model and keeping it as "the" product. Sport, first and foremost, should be competitive. This tired formula of teams taking it in turns in winning so fans dont get sad just doesnt cut it for me. Its like letting your nephew beat you in chess I enjoyed the W League in the early stages because even though there were only 1 or 2 competitive teams (those linked to Australian sports institutions), competition drives competition. Adelaide stepped up. Melbourne stepped up. Regions that didnt have much investment in the women's game stepped up, and the women's game as a whole has benefited. We see that in the Matildas. Now the league is more open and other teams can win it - because they earnt it (through one method or another). But the longer the W League goes on the more it is destined to be tarred with the same brush as the men's game (salary cap and other anti competitive measures so we can pretend regions are good) I havent watched a single A League game this season. I tried and turned it off after 30 seconds. I dont even check the results. I havent renewed my membership and I'm not going to either. Rigged sport is just tedious. And while some may argue wages largely determines who wins in an open competition, thats the professional game. Thats a national game. Even in the semi professional and amateur era there is always one driver that makes a region stronger than the other If you want balance, watch an under 12s local competition. If you want to see sport at the highest level in a country with a national framework, then accept that Gosford is not the best the country has to offer. If you can enjoy the world cup even though Australia cant win, but can improve that little bit each time, then you can enjoy the A League as a competitive league also Sorry but your narrative is counter-intuitive. You really enjoyed the A-League when the salary sap was strict. As the cap has been changed so that it doesn't reflect a cap at all you have lost interest as the larger teams dominate ever year. Also what is your obsession with Gosford? CCM have still won more domestically than Perth, Wellington, Melbourne City, WSW, Newcastle as well as Western United and Macarthur of course. Only Sydney, Victory, Brisbane and Adelaide with their FFA cup wins has been more successful. When all of them have won more than CCM you can start your obsession again. BTW - I'm happy for the cap to go - just don't follow your argument When the A League first launched there were only 2 regions with money for a game with zero interest. Setting up a professional national competition with 1 team per city and only 2 teams with money is destined for a Scotland scenario. Rightfully or wrongly, a salary cap helped distribute the players equally amongst the clubs to help the league grow a national professional status when the game had no money. It was only short term until the comp could get regions with more money (like they did with Gold Coast and TV deals), and also with more clubs from big cities. In my opinion, the initial league was a necessary evil, and with the salary cap largely a placebo I think the competition was "truer" The A League failed to move to the second step. It instead decided to box, label and package the initial league. The longer it goes, the more fake and transparent it becomes. Particularly as the players we are seeing are of a higher caliber than Muscat at the end of his career and Yorke at the end of his As for CCM, yes they have been successful, because we dont have an open league. We have already seen them fall off the pace with minimal allowances. This is literally the point I am making. You can boast about the success of CCM in a national league and the highest honours they have won because the league allows it. We let our nephew win a chess game I dont have a problem with CCM, Newcastle, Wollongong, Geelong or any regional team. I want to see them in the A League and wish them the best. The issue I have is they need to compete on their own merits and in the professional game that is player investment. Not rules prohibiting a club from signing too many good players so constant disruption forces an artificial shuffle each year Are you aware what would happen if the cap was removed, Crowd numbers would dwindle, scores more predictable, clubs less profitable, team numbers would reduce, talent coming through this would reduce, less qualification on an international stage as there is less talent, and Australia moves down the footballing ladder. Thats nothing more than fear based worst case scenario speculation Crowds have dwindled, attendances have dropped, clubs are less profitable, broadcasters arent bidding for our game, talent has dropped off, we are risking not qualifying even though Asia, we are poor in the ACL, football has moved down the ladder - and all of this was before COVID, and all with a salary cap Its ridiculous to think that Australia doesnt have the money and interest in a national competitive league based on choices made by two codes when they became professional. If the cap was dropped some of the teams in the A League will be the biggest football clubs of any code in this country. Your prediction - less interest. Less profit. Less talent etc... Based on what? You're kidding yourself if you think 12 teams the size of CCM is going to drive up interest, profit and talent. In fact spreading the best players across 12 clubs means even more diluted talent for the bigger clubs. Things are only going to get worse as we add more teams All this is based off your opinion. If you want to see what happens when finances aren't regulated have a look at the dying days of the NSL, club turn over was next level. Your view point is so much recycled and "copy and paste" from a previous era that you think the flaws of the game that I pointed out above are my opinion Secondly you think taking a single maximum figure and applying it to player salaries only is going to stop clubs from going broke. If the salary cap is about financial regulation then why is it the same for the big clubs as it is for the small clubs? Why have we seen A League clubs go broke, several might I add, despite a salary cap? Also you throw in the classic NSL line. You do realise that the NSL was a semi professional league with no major TV deal or commercial backing?Every single flaw you have pointed out in removing the salary cap is a fact of the current game. You dont know what it does. You just know our code will die without one Wasn't the Phillips Soccer League and Coca-Cola Soccer League shown on channel 10. I think Eddie Everywhere may have also been involved. The key word was "major" Soccer Australia had a TV deal and I think it was $1mil in total for 7 years That was a long time ago in an era of inflation and at least was on a major channel. What would that be in 2005 when the first season of the A-League got $750000 on subscription TV? Realistically that NSL TV deal had better access and was better value than the first A-League deal. Thats right. When the A League started, football had no value. The code was dead and buried, people were skeptical, and even a club like Melbourne was put on a deal where they could slowly pay the FFA back for their licence This is what I meant before when I said the initial A League was a necessary evil. People use today's support and interest as a paradox to say what the first year of the A League should have looked like. But everything stemmed from a 1 city, 1 club model. Consolidated support and sponsorship, a sound commercial model, and when things started to pay off - a serious TV deal But as I said, the initial A League was a first step. There wasnt 2 teams from big cities but people knew there would be. There wasnt a womens or youth league but people knew there would be. There wasnt a second tier but people knew there would be. All of this was part of the initial vision Once the FFA started to see the size of the dollars rolling in they decided the initial A League was the product and thats what they have been trying to sell ever since. And along with thats sales pitch comes the fear that if we dont follow the strict script set out for top tier football codes in this country the game will die. What a load of shit We have (had?) the amount of money in our game that we always dreamed of. And instead of building a sensible football model with big clubs, success in Asia, and improvement at the top level, we have ended up as a light weight AFL / NRL played with a round ball So basically we should be aiming to let our clubs become the Real Madrid of Asia? Who's Bury then?
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.4K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAs somebody who is also a fan of women's sport it doesnt matter if I see the highest possible athletic people at the top of their game. All sport has the same drama, excitement, club connections, triumphs, fails etc... that makes sport something that consumes our weekends So to me it doesnt matter that the A League isnt the EPL, it is still the premier Australian league and for the first 6 years of the competition it actually meant something to me
Where the A League lost it for me was taking the initial necessary (arguably) model and keeping it as "the" product. Sport, first and foremost, should be competitive. This tired formula of teams taking it in turns in winning so fans dont get sad just doesnt cut it for me. Its like letting your nephew beat you in chess I enjoyed the W League in the early stages because even though there were only 1 or 2 competitive teams (those linked to Australian sports institutions), competition drives competition. Adelaide stepped up. Melbourne stepped up. Regions that didnt have much investment in the women's game stepped up, and the women's game as a whole has benefited. We see that in the Matildas. Now the league is more open and other teams can win it - because they earnt it (through one method or another). But the longer the W League goes on the more it is destined to be tarred with the same brush as the men's game (salary cap and other anti competitive measures so we can pretend regions are good) I havent watched a single A League game this season. I tried and turned it off after 30 seconds. I dont even check the results. I havent renewed my membership and I'm not going to either. Rigged sport is just tedious. And while some may argue wages largely determines who wins in an open competition, thats the professional game. Thats a national game. Even in the semi professional and amateur era there is always one driver that makes a region stronger than the other If you want balance, watch an under 12s local competition. If you want to see sport at the highest level in a country with a national framework, then accept that Gosford is not the best the country has to offer. If you can enjoy the world cup even though Australia cant win, but can improve that little bit each time, then you can enjoy the A League as a competitive league also Sorry but your narrative is counter-intuitive. You really enjoyed the A-League when the salary sap was strict. As the cap has been changed so that it doesn't reflect a cap at all you have lost interest as the larger teams dominate ever year. Also what is your obsession with Gosford? CCM have still won more domestically than Perth, Wellington, Melbourne City, WSW, Newcastle as well as Western United and Macarthur of course. Only Sydney, Victory, Brisbane and Adelaide with their FFA cup wins has been more successful. When all of them have won more than CCM you can start your obsession again. BTW - I'm happy for the cap to go - just don't follow your argument When the A League first launched there were only 2 regions with money for a game with zero interest. Setting up a professional national competition with 1 team per city and only 2 teams with money is destined for a Scotland scenario. Rightfully or wrongly, a salary cap helped distribute the players equally amongst the clubs to help the league grow a national professional status when the game had no money. It was only short term until the comp could get regions with more money (like they did with Gold Coast and TV deals), and also with more clubs from big cities. In my opinion, the initial league was a necessary evil, and with the salary cap largely a placebo I think the competition was "truer" The A League failed to move to the second step. It instead decided to box, label and package the initial league. The longer it goes, the more fake and transparent it becomes. Particularly as the players we are seeing are of a higher caliber than Muscat at the end of his career and Yorke at the end of his As for CCM, yes they have been successful, because we dont have an open league. We have already seen them fall off the pace with minimal allowances. This is literally the point I am making. You can boast about the success of CCM in a national league and the highest honours they have won because the league allows it. We let our nephew win a chess game I dont have a problem with CCM, Newcastle, Wollongong, Geelong or any regional team. I want to see them in the A League and wish them the best. The issue I have is they need to compete on their own merits and in the professional game that is player investment. Not rules prohibiting a club from signing too many good players so constant disruption forces an artificial shuffle each year Are you aware what would happen if the cap was removed, Crowd numbers would dwindle, scores more predictable, clubs less profitable, team numbers would reduce, talent coming through this would reduce, less qualification on an international stage as there is less talent, and Australia moves down the footballing ladder. Thats nothing more than fear based worst case scenario speculation Crowds have dwindled, attendances have dropped, clubs are less profitable, broadcasters arent bidding for our game, talent has dropped off, we are risking not qualifying even though Asia, we are poor in the ACL, football has moved down the ladder - and all of this was before COVID, and all with a salary cap Its ridiculous to think that Australia doesnt have the money and interest in a national competitive league based on choices made by two codes when they became professional. If the cap was dropped some of the teams in the A League will be the biggest football clubs of any code in this country. Your prediction - less interest. Less profit. Less talent etc... Based on what? You're kidding yourself if you think 12 teams the size of CCM is going to drive up interest, profit and talent. In fact spreading the best players across 12 clubs means even more diluted talent for the bigger clubs. Things are only going to get worse as we add more teams All this is based off your opinion. If you want to see what happens when finances aren't regulated have a look at the dying days of the NSL, club turn over was next level. Your view point is so much recycled and "copy and paste" from a previous era that you think the flaws of the game that I pointed out above are my opinion Secondly you think taking a single maximum figure and applying it to player salaries only is going to stop clubs from going broke. If the salary cap is about financial regulation then why is it the same for the big clubs as it is for the small clubs? Why have we seen A League clubs go broke, several might I add, despite a salary cap? Also you throw in the classic NSL line. You do realise that the NSL was a semi professional league with no major TV deal or commercial backing?Every single flaw you have pointed out in removing the salary cap is a fact of the current game. You dont know what it does. You just know our code will die without one Wasn't the Phillips Soccer League and Coca-Cola Soccer League shown on channel 10. I think Eddie Everywhere may have also been involved. The key word was "major" Soccer Australia had a TV deal and I think it was $1mil in total for 7 years That was a long time ago in an era of inflation and at least was on a major channel. What would that be in 2005 when the first season of the A-League got $750000 on subscription TV? Realistically that NSL TV deal had better access and was better value than the first A-League deal. Thats right. When the A League started, football had no value. The code was dead and buried, people were skeptical, and even a club like Melbourne was put on a deal where they could slowly pay the FFA back for their licence This is what I meant before when I said the initial A League was a necessary evil. People use today's support and interest as a paradox to say what the first year of the A League should have looked like. But everything stemmed from a 1 city, 1 club model. Consolidated support and sponsorship, a sound commercial model, and when things started to pay off - a serious TV deal But as I said, the initial A League was a first step. There wasnt 2 teams from big cities but people knew there would be. There wasnt a womens or youth league but people knew there would be. There wasnt a second tier but people knew there would be. All of this was part of the initial vision Once the FFA started to see the size of the dollars rolling in they decided the initial A League was the product and thats what they have been trying to sell ever since. And along with thats sales pitch comes the fear that if we dont follow the strict script set out for top tier football codes in this country the game will die. What a load of shit We have (had?) the amount of money in our game that we always dreamed of. And instead of building a sensible football model with big clubs, success in Asia, and improvement at the top level, we have ended up as a light weight AFL / NRL played with a round ball So basically we should be aiming to let our clubs become the Real Madrid of Asia? Who's Bury then? The CCM of Europe?
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bluebird2
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 648,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAs somebody who is also a fan of women's sport it doesnt matter if I see the highest possible athletic people at the top of their game. All sport has the same drama, excitement, club connections, triumphs, fails etc... that makes sport something that consumes our weekends So to me it doesnt matter that the A League isnt the EPL, it is still the premier Australian league and for the first 6 years of the competition it actually meant something to me
Where the A League lost it for me was taking the initial necessary (arguably) model and keeping it as "the" product. Sport, first and foremost, should be competitive. This tired formula of teams taking it in turns in winning so fans dont get sad just doesnt cut it for me. Its like letting your nephew beat you in chess I enjoyed the W League in the early stages because even though there were only 1 or 2 competitive teams (those linked to Australian sports institutions), competition drives competition. Adelaide stepped up. Melbourne stepped up. Regions that didnt have much investment in the women's game stepped up, and the women's game as a whole has benefited. We see that in the Matildas. Now the league is more open and other teams can win it - because they earnt it (through one method or another). But the longer the W League goes on the more it is destined to be tarred with the same brush as the men's game (salary cap and other anti competitive measures so we can pretend regions are good) I havent watched a single A League game this season. I tried and turned it off after 30 seconds. I dont even check the results. I havent renewed my membership and I'm not going to either. Rigged sport is just tedious. And while some may argue wages largely determines who wins in an open competition, thats the professional game. Thats a national game. Even in the semi professional and amateur era there is always one driver that makes a region stronger than the other If you want balance, watch an under 12s local competition. If you want to see sport at the highest level in a country with a national framework, then accept that Gosford is not the best the country has to offer. If you can enjoy the world cup even though Australia cant win, but can improve that little bit each time, then you can enjoy the A League as a competitive league also Sorry but your narrative is counter-intuitive. You really enjoyed the A-League when the salary sap was strict. As the cap has been changed so that it doesn't reflect a cap at all you have lost interest as the larger teams dominate ever year. Also what is your obsession with Gosford? CCM have still won more domestically than Perth, Wellington, Melbourne City, WSW, Newcastle as well as Western United and Macarthur of course. Only Sydney, Victory, Brisbane and Adelaide with their FFA cup wins has been more successful. When all of them have won more than CCM you can start your obsession again. BTW - I'm happy for the cap to go - just don't follow your argument When the A League first launched there were only 2 regions with money for a game with zero interest. Setting up a professional national competition with 1 team per city and only 2 teams with money is destined for a Scotland scenario. Rightfully or wrongly, a salary cap helped distribute the players equally amongst the clubs to help the league grow a national professional status when the game had no money. It was only short term until the comp could get regions with more money (like they did with Gold Coast and TV deals), and also with more clubs from big cities. In my opinion, the initial league was a necessary evil, and with the salary cap largely a placebo I think the competition was "truer" The A League failed to move to the second step. It instead decided to box, label and package the initial league. The longer it goes, the more fake and transparent it becomes. Particularly as the players we are seeing are of a higher caliber than Muscat at the end of his career and Yorke at the end of his As for CCM, yes they have been successful, because we dont have an open league. We have already seen them fall off the pace with minimal allowances. This is literally the point I am making. You can boast about the success of CCM in a national league and the highest honours they have won because the league allows it. We let our nephew win a chess game I dont have a problem with CCM, Newcastle, Wollongong, Geelong or any regional team. I want to see them in the A League and wish them the best. The issue I have is they need to compete on their own merits and in the professional game that is player investment. Not rules prohibiting a club from signing too many good players so constant disruption forces an artificial shuffle each year Are you aware what would happen if the cap was removed, Crowd numbers would dwindle, scores more predictable, clubs less profitable, team numbers would reduce, talent coming through this would reduce, less qualification on an international stage as there is less talent, and Australia moves down the footballing ladder. Thats nothing more than fear based worst case scenario speculation Crowds have dwindled, attendances have dropped, clubs are less profitable, broadcasters arent bidding for our game, talent has dropped off, we are risking not qualifying even though Asia, we are poor in the ACL, football has moved down the ladder - and all of this was before COVID, and all with a salary cap Its ridiculous to think that Australia doesnt have the money and interest in a national competitive league based on choices made by two codes when they became professional. If the cap was dropped some of the teams in the A League will be the biggest football clubs of any code in this country. Your prediction - less interest. Less profit. Less talent etc... Based on what? You're kidding yourself if you think 12 teams the size of CCM is going to drive up interest, profit and talent. In fact spreading the best players across 12 clubs means even more diluted talent for the bigger clubs. Things are only going to get worse as we add more teams All this is based off your opinion. If you want to see what happens when finances aren't regulated have a look at the dying days of the NSL, club turn over was next level. Your view point is so much recycled and "copy and paste" from a previous era that you think the flaws of the game that I pointed out above are my opinion Secondly you think taking a single maximum figure and applying it to player salaries only is going to stop clubs from going broke. If the salary cap is about financial regulation then why is it the same for the big clubs as it is for the small clubs? Why have we seen A League clubs go broke, several might I add, despite a salary cap? Also you throw in the classic NSL line. You do realise that the NSL was a semi professional league with no major TV deal or commercial backing?Every single flaw you have pointed out in removing the salary cap is a fact of the current game. You dont know what it does. You just know our code will die without one Wasn't the Phillips Soccer League and Coca-Cola Soccer League shown on channel 10. I think Eddie Everywhere may have also been involved. The key word was "major" Soccer Australia had a TV deal and I think it was $1mil in total for 7 years That was a long time ago in an era of inflation and at least was on a major channel. What would that be in 2005 when the first season of the A-League got $750000 on subscription TV? Realistically that NSL TV deal had better access and was better value than the first A-League deal. Thats right. When the A League started, football had no value. The code was dead and buried, people were skeptical, and even a club like Melbourne was put on a deal where they could slowly pay the FFA back for their licence This is what I meant before when I said the initial A League was a necessary evil. People use today's support and interest as a paradox to say what the first year of the A League should have looked like. But everything stemmed from a 1 city, 1 club model. Consolidated support and sponsorship, a sound commercial model, and when things started to pay off - a serious TV deal But as I said, the initial A League was a first step. There wasnt 2 teams from big cities but people knew there would be. There wasnt a womens or youth league but people knew there would be. There wasnt a second tier but people knew there would be. All of this was part of the initial vision Once the FFA started to see the size of the dollars rolling in they decided the initial A League was the product and thats what they have been trying to sell ever since. And along with thats sales pitch comes the fear that if we dont follow the strict script set out for top tier football codes in this country the game will die. What a load of shit We have (had?) the amount of money in our game that we always dreamed of. And instead of building a sensible football model with big clubs, success in Asia, and improvement at the top level, we have ended up as a light weight AFL / NRL played with a round ball So basically we should be aiming to let our clubs become the Real Madrid of Asia? Thats 100% right When Australia joined Asia they were one of the biggest countries (which was the incentive for Asia to give us a gig). In fact more people in some Asian countries wore Kewell shirts when we played them than their own country. They had the same issues we had I know we can never match the spending power of China and Japan, but the 3+1 rule means the best country in the ACL is the one that does the most with local talent. So Australia has a good chance to step ahead of the pack and thats what we should be aiming for If we let CFG and the like cut loose, some of the teams in the A League will be bigger than those in the AFL / NRL. Saturday night games will be epic and teams like CCM will profit from home games like we have seen with visiting marquees in the past. And that was just one player The AFL can get away with an ambiguous standard because there is nothing to compare it to. If a team thrown into West Sydney is the best the country has to offer, or a Melbourne team playing rugby, then people will buy it. But our code will always be compared to an international standard. We have to aim higher than seeing which teams win a closed off league
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huddo
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAs somebody who is also a fan of women's sport it doesnt matter if I see the highest possible athletic people at the top of their game. All sport has the same drama, excitement, club connections, triumphs, fails etc... that makes sport something that consumes our weekends So to me it doesnt matter that the A League isnt the EPL, it is still the premier Australian league and for the first 6 years of the competition it actually meant something to me
Where the A League lost it for me was taking the initial necessary (arguably) model and keeping it as "the" product. Sport, first and foremost, should be competitive. This tired formula of teams taking it in turns in winning so fans dont get sad just doesnt cut it for me. Its like letting your nephew beat you in chess I enjoyed the W League in the early stages because even though there were only 1 or 2 competitive teams (those linked to Australian sports institutions), competition drives competition. Adelaide stepped up. Melbourne stepped up. Regions that didnt have much investment in the women's game stepped up, and the women's game as a whole has benefited. We see that in the Matildas. Now the league is more open and other teams can win it - because they earnt it (through one method or another). But the longer the W League goes on the more it is destined to be tarred with the same brush as the men's game (salary cap and other anti competitive measures so we can pretend regions are good) I havent watched a single A League game this season. I tried and turned it off after 30 seconds. I dont even check the results. I havent renewed my membership and I'm not going to either. Rigged sport is just tedious. And while some may argue wages largely determines who wins in an open competition, thats the professional game. Thats a national game. Even in the semi professional and amateur era there is always one driver that makes a region stronger than the other If you want balance, watch an under 12s local competition. If you want to see sport at the highest level in a country with a national framework, then accept that Gosford is not the best the country has to offer. If you can enjoy the world cup even though Australia cant win, but can improve that little bit each time, then you can enjoy the A League as a competitive league also Sorry but your narrative is counter-intuitive. You really enjoyed the A-League when the salary sap was strict. As the cap has been changed so that it doesn't reflect a cap at all you have lost interest as the larger teams dominate ever year. Also what is your obsession with Gosford? CCM have still won more domestically than Perth, Wellington, Melbourne City, WSW, Newcastle as well as Western United and Macarthur of course. Only Sydney, Victory, Brisbane and Adelaide with their FFA cup wins has been more successful. When all of them have won more than CCM you can start your obsession again. BTW - I'm happy for the cap to go - just don't follow your argument When the A League first launched there were only 2 regions with money for a game with zero interest. Setting up a professional national competition with 1 team per city and only 2 teams with money is destined for a Scotland scenario. Rightfully or wrongly, a salary cap helped distribute the players equally amongst the clubs to help the league grow a national professional status when the game had no money. It was only short term until the comp could get regions with more money (like they did with Gold Coast and TV deals), and also with more clubs from big cities. In my opinion, the initial league was a necessary evil, and with the salary cap largely a placebo I think the competition was "truer" The A League failed to move to the second step. It instead decided to box, label and package the initial league. The longer it goes, the more fake and transparent it becomes. Particularly as the players we are seeing are of a higher caliber than Muscat at the end of his career and Yorke at the end of his As for CCM, yes they have been successful, because we dont have an open league. We have already seen them fall off the pace with minimal allowances. This is literally the point I am making. You can boast about the success of CCM in a national league and the highest honours they have won because the league allows it. We let our nephew win a chess game I dont have a problem with CCM, Newcastle, Wollongong, Geelong or any regional team. I want to see them in the A League and wish them the best. The issue I have is they need to compete on their own merits and in the professional game that is player investment. Not rules prohibiting a club from signing too many good players so constant disruption forces an artificial shuffle each year Are you aware what would happen if the cap was removed, Crowd numbers would dwindle, scores more predictable, clubs less profitable, team numbers would reduce, talent coming through this would reduce, less qualification on an international stage as there is less talent, and Australia moves down the footballing ladder. Thats nothing more than fear based worst case scenario speculation Crowds have dwindled, attendances have dropped, clubs are less profitable, broadcasters arent bidding for our game, talent has dropped off, we are risking not qualifying even though Asia, we are poor in the ACL, football has moved down the ladder - and all of this was before COVID, and all with a salary cap Its ridiculous to think that Australia doesnt have the money and interest in a national competitive league based on choices made by two codes when they became professional. If the cap was dropped some of the teams in the A League will be the biggest football clubs of any code in this country. Your prediction - less interest. Less profit. Less talent etc... Based on what? You're kidding yourself if you think 12 teams the size of CCM is going to drive up interest, profit and talent. In fact spreading the best players across 12 clubs means even more diluted talent for the bigger clubs. Things are only going to get worse as we add more teams All this is based off your opinion. If you want to see what happens when finances aren't regulated have a look at the dying days of the NSL, club turn over was next level. Your view point is so much recycled and "copy and paste" from a previous era that you think the flaws of the game that I pointed out above are my opinion Secondly you think taking a single maximum figure and applying it to player salaries only is going to stop clubs from going broke. If the salary cap is about financial regulation then why is it the same for the big clubs as it is for the small clubs? Why have we seen A League clubs go broke, several might I add, despite a salary cap? Also you throw in the classic NSL line. You do realise that the NSL was a semi professional league with no major TV deal or commercial backing?Every single flaw you have pointed out in removing the salary cap is a fact of the current game. You dont know what it does. You just know our code will die without one Wasn't the Phillips Soccer League and Coca-Cola Soccer League shown on channel 10. I think Eddie Everywhere may have also been involved. The key word was "major" Soccer Australia had a TV deal and I think it was $1mil in total for 7 years That was a long time ago in an era of inflation and at least was on a major channel. What would that be in 2005 when the first season of the A-League got $750000 on subscription TV? Realistically that NSL TV deal had better access and was better value than the first A-League deal. Thats right. When the A League started, football had no value. The code was dead and buried, people were skeptical, and even a club like Melbourne was put on a deal where they could slowly pay the FFA back for their licence This is what I meant before when I said the initial A League was a necessary evil. People use today's support and interest as a paradox to say what the first year of the A League should have looked like. But everything stemmed from a 1 city, 1 club model. Consolidated support and sponsorship, a sound commercial model, and when things started to pay off - a serious TV deal But as I said, the initial A League was a first step. There wasnt 2 teams from big cities but people knew there would be. There wasnt a womens or youth league but people knew there would be. There wasnt a second tier but people knew there would be. All of this was part of the initial vision Once the FFA started to see the size of the dollars rolling in they decided the initial A League was the product and thats what they have been trying to sell ever since. And along with thats sales pitch comes the fear that if we dont follow the strict script set out for top tier football codes in this country the game will die. What a load of shit We have (had?) the amount of money in our game that we always dreamed of. And instead of building a sensible football model with big clubs, success in Asia, and improvement at the top level, we have ended up as a light weight AFL / NRL played with a round ball So basically we should be aiming to let our clubs become the Real Madrid of Asia? Thats 100% right When Australia joined Asia they were one of the biggest countries (which was the incentive for Asia to give us a gig). In fact more people in some Asian countries wore Kewell shirts when we played them than their own country. They had the same issues we had I know we can never match the spending power of China and Japan, but the 3+1 rule means the best country in the ACL is the one that does the most with local talent. So Australia has a good chance to step ahead of the pack and thats what we should be aiming for If we let CFG and the like cut loose, some of the teams in the A League will be bigger than those in the AFL / NRL. Saturday night games will be epic and teams like CCM will profit from home games like we have seen with visiting marquees in the past. And that was just one player The AFL can get away with an ambiguous standard because there is nothing to compare it to. If a team thrown into West Sydney is the best the country has to offer, or a Melbourne team playing rugby, then people will buy it. But our code will always be compared to an international standard. We have to aim higher than seeing which teams win a closed off league So who regulates to stop over expenditure. How does the league ensure strong growth. Especially if the league develops into a 3 team league ( as would most likely be the end result)?
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Footyball
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.7K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAs somebody who is also a fan of women's sport it doesnt matter if I see the highest possible athletic people at the top of their game. All sport has the same drama, excitement, club connections, triumphs, fails etc... that makes sport something that consumes our weekends So to me it doesnt matter that the A League isnt the EPL, it is still the premier Australian league and for the first 6 years of the competition it actually meant something to me
Where the A League lost it for me was taking the initial necessary (arguably) model and keeping it as "the" product. Sport, first and foremost, should be competitive. This tired formula of teams taking it in turns in winning so fans dont get sad just doesnt cut it for me. Its like letting your nephew beat you in chess I enjoyed the W League in the early stages because even though there were only 1 or 2 competitive teams (those linked to Australian sports institutions), competition drives competition. Adelaide stepped up. Melbourne stepped up. Regions that didnt have much investment in the women's game stepped up, and the women's game as a whole has benefited. We see that in the Matildas. Now the league is more open and other teams can win it - because they earnt it (through one method or another). But the longer the W League goes on the more it is destined to be tarred with the same brush as the men's game (salary cap and other anti competitive measures so we can pretend regions are good) I havent watched a single A League game this season. I tried and turned it off after 30 seconds. I dont even check the results. I havent renewed my membership and I'm not going to either. Rigged sport is just tedious. And while some may argue wages largely determines who wins in an open competition, thats the professional game. Thats a national game. Even in the semi professional and amateur era there is always one driver that makes a region stronger than the other If you want balance, watch an under 12s local competition. If you want to see sport at the highest level in a country with a national framework, then accept that Gosford is not the best the country has to offer. If you can enjoy the world cup even though Australia cant win, but can improve that little bit each time, then you can enjoy the A League as a competitive league also Sorry but your narrative is counter-intuitive. You really enjoyed the A-League when the salary sap was strict. As the cap has been changed so that it doesn't reflect a cap at all you have lost interest as the larger teams dominate ever year. Also what is your obsession with Gosford? CCM have still won more domestically than Perth, Wellington, Melbourne City, WSW, Newcastle as well as Western United and Macarthur of course. Only Sydney, Victory, Brisbane and Adelaide with their FFA cup wins has been more successful. When all of them have won more than CCM you can start your obsession again. BTW - I'm happy for the cap to go - just don't follow your argument When the A League first launched there were only 2 regions with money for a game with zero interest. Setting up a professional national competition with 1 team per city and only 2 teams with money is destined for a Scotland scenario. Rightfully or wrongly, a salary cap helped distribute the players equally amongst the clubs to help the league grow a national professional status when the game had no money. It was only short term until the comp could get regions with more money (like they did with Gold Coast and TV deals), and also with more clubs from big cities. In my opinion, the initial league was a necessary evil, and with the salary cap largely a placebo I think the competition was "truer" The A League failed to move to the second step. It instead decided to box, label and package the initial league. The longer it goes, the more fake and transparent it becomes. Particularly as the players we are seeing are of a higher caliber than Muscat at the end of his career and Yorke at the end of his As for CCM, yes they have been successful, because we dont have an open league. We have already seen them fall off the pace with minimal allowances. This is literally the point I am making. You can boast about the success of CCM in a national league and the highest honours they have won because the league allows it. We let our nephew win a chess game I dont have a problem with CCM, Newcastle, Wollongong, Geelong or any regional team. I want to see them in the A League and wish them the best. The issue I have is they need to compete on their own merits and in the professional game that is player investment. Not rules prohibiting a club from signing too many good players so constant disruption forces an artificial shuffle each year Are you aware what would happen if the cap was removed, Crowd numbers would dwindle, scores more predictable, clubs less profitable, team numbers would reduce, talent coming through this would reduce, less qualification on an international stage as there is less talent, and Australia moves down the footballing ladder. Thats nothing more than fear based worst case scenario speculation Crowds have dwindled, attendances have dropped, clubs are less profitable, broadcasters arent bidding for our game, talent has dropped off, we are risking not qualifying even though Asia, we are poor in the ACL, football has moved down the ladder - and all of this was before COVID, and all with a salary cap Its ridiculous to think that Australia doesnt have the money and interest in a national competitive league based on choices made by two codes when they became professional. If the cap was dropped some of the teams in the A League will be the biggest football clubs of any code in this country. Your prediction - less interest. Less profit. Less talent etc... Based on what? You're kidding yourself if you think 12 teams the size of CCM is going to drive up interest, profit and talent. In fact spreading the best players across 12 clubs means even more diluted talent for the bigger clubs. Things are only going to get worse as we add more teams All this is based off your opinion. If you want to see what happens when finances aren't regulated have a look at the dying days of the NSL, club turn over was next level. Your view point is so much recycled and "copy and paste" from a previous era that you think the flaws of the game that I pointed out above are my opinion Secondly you think taking a single maximum figure and applying it to player salaries only is going to stop clubs from going broke. If the salary cap is about financial regulation then why is it the same for the big clubs as it is for the small clubs? Why have we seen A League clubs go broke, several might I add, despite a salary cap? Also you throw in the classic NSL line. You do realise that the NSL was a semi professional league with no major TV deal or commercial backing?Every single flaw you have pointed out in removing the salary cap is a fact of the current game. You dont know what it does. You just know our code will die without one Wasn't the Phillips Soccer League and Coca-Cola Soccer League shown on channel 10. I think Eddie Everywhere may have also been involved. The key word was "major" Soccer Australia had a TV deal and I think it was $1mil in total for 7 years That was a long time ago in an era of inflation and at least was on a major channel. What would that be in 2005 when the first season of the A-League got $750000 on subscription TV? Realistically that NSL TV deal had better access and was better value than the first A-League deal. Thats right. When the A League started, football had no value. The code was dead and buried, people were skeptical, and even a club like Melbourne was put on a deal where they could slowly pay the FFA back for their licence This is what I meant before when I said the initial A League was a necessary evil. People use today's support and interest as a paradox to say what the first year of the A League should have looked like. But everything stemmed from a 1 city, 1 club model. Consolidated support and sponsorship, a sound commercial model, and when things started to pay off - a serious TV deal But as I said, the initial A League was a first step. There wasnt 2 teams from big cities but people knew there would be. There wasnt a womens or youth league but people knew there would be. There wasnt a second tier but people knew there would be. All of this was part of the initial vision Once the FFA started to see the size of the dollars rolling in they decided the initial A League was the product and thats what they have been trying to sell ever since. And along with thats sales pitch comes the fear that if we dont follow the strict script set out for top tier football codes in this country the game will die. What a load of shit We have (had?) the amount of money in our game that we always dreamed of. And instead of building a sensible football model with big clubs, success in Asia, and improvement at the top level, we have ended up as a light weight AFL / NRL played with a round ball So basically we should be aiming to let our clubs become the Real Madrid of Asia? Thats 100% right When Australia joined Asia they were one of the biggest countries (which was the incentive for Asia to give us a gig). In fact more people in some Asian countries wore Kewell shirts when we played them than their own country. They had the same issues we had I know we can never match the spending power of China and Japan, but the 3+1 rule means the best country in the ACL is the one that does the most with local talent. So Australia has a good chance to step ahead of the pack and thats what we should be aiming for If we let CFG and the like cut loose, some of the teams in the A League will be bigger than those in the AFL / NRL. Saturday night games will be epic and teams like CCM will profit from home games like we have seen with visiting marquees in the past. And that was just one player The AFL can get away with an ambiguous standard because there is nothing to compare it to. If a team thrown into West Sydney is the best the country has to offer, or a Melbourne team playing rugby, then people will buy it. But our code will always be compared to an international standard. We have to aim higher than seeing which teams win a closed off league So who regulates to stop over expenditure. How does the league ensure strong growth. Especially if the league develops into a 3 team league ( as would most likely be the end result)? The EPL is a 4-6 teams trick pony and all the other major leagues are about a three teams trick pony as well.
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DandyCasey
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 276,
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Boutique stadiums, embracing a 'niche sport' persona and attempting to be inclusive with diehard support seems to be a more realistic way of moving forward to me! If it's not too late already.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.4K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAs somebody who is also a fan of women's sport it doesnt matter if I see the highest possible athletic people at the top of their game. All sport has the same drama, excitement, club connections, triumphs, fails etc... that makes sport something that consumes our weekends So to me it doesnt matter that the A League isnt the EPL, it is still the premier Australian league and for the first 6 years of the competition it actually meant something to me
Where the A League lost it for me was taking the initial necessary (arguably) model and keeping it as "the" product. Sport, first and foremost, should be competitive. This tired formula of teams taking it in turns in winning so fans dont get sad just doesnt cut it for me. Its like letting your nephew beat you in chess I enjoyed the W League in the early stages because even though there were only 1 or 2 competitive teams (those linked to Australian sports institutions), competition drives competition. Adelaide stepped up. Melbourne stepped up. Regions that didnt have much investment in the women's game stepped up, and the women's game as a whole has benefited. We see that in the Matildas. Now the league is more open and other teams can win it - because they earnt it (through one method or another). But the longer the W League goes on the more it is destined to be tarred with the same brush as the men's game (salary cap and other anti competitive measures so we can pretend regions are good) I havent watched a single A League game this season. I tried and turned it off after 30 seconds. I dont even check the results. I havent renewed my membership and I'm not going to either. Rigged sport is just tedious. And while some may argue wages largely determines who wins in an open competition, thats the professional game. Thats a national game. Even in the semi professional and amateur era there is always one driver that makes a region stronger than the other If you want balance, watch an under 12s local competition. If you want to see sport at the highest level in a country with a national framework, then accept that Gosford is not the best the country has to offer. If you can enjoy the world cup even though Australia cant win, but can improve that little bit each time, then you can enjoy the A League as a competitive league also Sorry but your narrative is counter-intuitive. You really enjoyed the A-League when the salary sap was strict. As the cap has been changed so that it doesn't reflect a cap at all you have lost interest as the larger teams dominate ever year. Also what is your obsession with Gosford? CCM have still won more domestically than Perth, Wellington, Melbourne City, WSW, Newcastle as well as Western United and Macarthur of course. Only Sydney, Victory, Brisbane and Adelaide with their FFA cup wins has been more successful. When all of them have won more than CCM you can start your obsession again. BTW - I'm happy for the cap to go - just don't follow your argument When the A League first launched there were only 2 regions with money for a game with zero interest. Setting up a professional national competition with 1 team per city and only 2 teams with money is destined for a Scotland scenario. Rightfully or wrongly, a salary cap helped distribute the players equally amongst the clubs to help the league grow a national professional status when the game had no money. It was only short term until the comp could get regions with more money (like they did with Gold Coast and TV deals), and also with more clubs from big cities. In my opinion, the initial league was a necessary evil, and with the salary cap largely a placebo I think the competition was "truer" The A League failed to move to the second step. It instead decided to box, label and package the initial league. The longer it goes, the more fake and transparent it becomes. Particularly as the players we are seeing are of a higher caliber than Muscat at the end of his career and Yorke at the end of his As for CCM, yes they have been successful, because we dont have an open league. We have already seen them fall off the pace with minimal allowances. This is literally the point I am making. You can boast about the success of CCM in a national league and the highest honours they have won because the league allows it. We let our nephew win a chess game I dont have a problem with CCM, Newcastle, Wollongong, Geelong or any regional team. I want to see them in the A League and wish them the best. The issue I have is they need to compete on their own merits and in the professional game that is player investment. Not rules prohibiting a club from signing too many good players so constant disruption forces an artificial shuffle each year Are you aware what would happen if the cap was removed, Crowd numbers would dwindle, scores more predictable, clubs less profitable, team numbers would reduce, talent coming through this would reduce, less qualification on an international stage as there is less talent, and Australia moves down the footballing ladder. Thats nothing more than fear based worst case scenario speculation Crowds have dwindled, attendances have dropped, clubs are less profitable, broadcasters arent bidding for our game, talent has dropped off, we are risking not qualifying even though Asia, we are poor in the ACL, football has moved down the ladder - and all of this was before COVID, and all with a salary cap Its ridiculous to think that Australia doesnt have the money and interest in a national competitive league based on choices made by two codes when they became professional. If the cap was dropped some of the teams in the A League will be the biggest football clubs of any code in this country. Your prediction - less interest. Less profit. Less talent etc... Based on what? You're kidding yourself if you think 12 teams the size of CCM is going to drive up interest, profit and talent. In fact spreading the best players across 12 clubs means even more diluted talent for the bigger clubs. Things are only going to get worse as we add more teams All this is based off your opinion. If you want to see what happens when finances aren't regulated have a look at the dying days of the NSL, club turn over was next level. Your view point is so much recycled and "copy and paste" from a previous era that you think the flaws of the game that I pointed out above are my opinion Secondly you think taking a single maximum figure and applying it to player salaries only is going to stop clubs from going broke. If the salary cap is about financial regulation then why is it the same for the big clubs as it is for the small clubs? Why have we seen A League clubs go broke, several might I add, despite a salary cap? Also you throw in the classic NSL line. You do realise that the NSL was a semi professional league with no major TV deal or commercial backing?Every single flaw you have pointed out in removing the salary cap is a fact of the current game. You dont know what it does. You just know our code will die without one Wasn't the Phillips Soccer League and Coca-Cola Soccer League shown on channel 10. I think Eddie Everywhere may have also been involved. The key word was "major" Soccer Australia had a TV deal and I think it was $1mil in total for 7 years That was a long time ago in an era of inflation and at least was on a major channel. What would that be in 2005 when the first season of the A-League got $750000 on subscription TV? Realistically that NSL TV deal had better access and was better value than the first A-League deal. Thats right. When the A League started, football had no value. The code was dead and buried, people were skeptical, and even a club like Melbourne was put on a deal where they could slowly pay the FFA back for their licence This is what I meant before when I said the initial A League was a necessary evil. People use today's support and interest as a paradox to say what the first year of the A League should have looked like. But everything stemmed from a 1 city, 1 club model. Consolidated support and sponsorship, a sound commercial model, and when things started to pay off - a serious TV deal But as I said, the initial A League was a first step. There wasnt 2 teams from big cities but people knew there would be. There wasnt a womens or youth league but people knew there would be. There wasnt a second tier but people knew there would be. All of this was part of the initial vision Once the FFA started to see the size of the dollars rolling in they decided the initial A League was the product and thats what they have been trying to sell ever since. And along with thats sales pitch comes the fear that if we dont follow the strict script set out for top tier football codes in this country the game will die. What a load of shit We have (had?) the amount of money in our game that we always dreamed of. And instead of building a sensible football model with big clubs, success in Asia, and improvement at the top level, we have ended up as a light weight AFL / NRL played with a round ball So basically we should be aiming to let our clubs become the Real Madrid of Asia? Thats 100% right When Australia joined Asia they were one of the biggest countries (which was the incentive for Asia to give us a gig). In fact more people in some Asian countries wore Kewell shirts when we played them than their own country. They had the same issues we had I know we can never match the spending power of China and Japan, but the 3+1 rule means the best country in the ACL is the one that does the most with local talent. So Australia has a good chance to step ahead of the pack and thats what we should be aiming for If we let CFG and the like cut loose, some of the teams in the A League will be bigger than those in the AFL / NRL. Saturday night games will be epic and teams like CCM will profit from home games like we have seen with visiting marquees in the past. And that was just one player The AFL can get away with an ambiguous standard because there is nothing to compare it to. If a team thrown into West Sydney is the best the country has to offer, or a Melbourne team playing rugby, then people will buy it. But our code will always be compared to an international standard. We have to aim higher than seeing which teams win a closed off league So who regulates to stop over expenditure. How does the league ensure strong growth. Especially if the league develops into a 3 team league ( as would most likely be the end result)? How about the fear of relegation? .... just a thought.
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bluebird2
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 648,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAs somebody who is also a fan of women's sport it doesnt matter if I see the highest possible athletic people at the top of their game. All sport has the same drama, excitement, club connections, triumphs, fails etc... that makes sport something that consumes our weekends So to me it doesnt matter that the A League isnt the EPL, it is still the premier Australian league and for the first 6 years of the competition it actually meant something to me
Where the A League lost it for me was taking the initial necessary (arguably) model and keeping it as "the" product. Sport, first and foremost, should be competitive. This tired formula of teams taking it in turns in winning so fans dont get sad just doesnt cut it for me. Its like letting your nephew beat you in chess I enjoyed the W League in the early stages because even though there were only 1 or 2 competitive teams (those linked to Australian sports institutions), competition drives competition. Adelaide stepped up. Melbourne stepped up. Regions that didnt have much investment in the women's game stepped up, and the women's game as a whole has benefited. We see that in the Matildas. Now the league is more open and other teams can win it - because they earnt it (through one method or another). But the longer the W League goes on the more it is destined to be tarred with the same brush as the men's game (salary cap and other anti competitive measures so we can pretend regions are good) I havent watched a single A League game this season. I tried and turned it off after 30 seconds. I dont even check the results. I havent renewed my membership and I'm not going to either. Rigged sport is just tedious. And while some may argue wages largely determines who wins in an open competition, thats the professional game. Thats a national game. Even in the semi professional and amateur era there is always one driver that makes a region stronger than the other If you want balance, watch an under 12s local competition. If you want to see sport at the highest level in a country with a national framework, then accept that Gosford is not the best the country has to offer. If you can enjoy the world cup even though Australia cant win, but can improve that little bit each time, then you can enjoy the A League as a competitive league also Sorry but your narrative is counter-intuitive. You really enjoyed the A-League when the salary sap was strict. As the cap has been changed so that it doesn't reflect a cap at all you have lost interest as the larger teams dominate ever year. Also what is your obsession with Gosford? CCM have still won more domestically than Perth, Wellington, Melbourne City, WSW, Newcastle as well as Western United and Macarthur of course. Only Sydney, Victory, Brisbane and Adelaide with their FFA cup wins has been more successful. When all of them have won more than CCM you can start your obsession again. BTW - I'm happy for the cap to go - just don't follow your argument When the A League first launched there were only 2 regions with money for a game with zero interest. Setting up a professional national competition with 1 team per city and only 2 teams with money is destined for a Scotland scenario. Rightfully or wrongly, a salary cap helped distribute the players equally amongst the clubs to help the league grow a national professional status when the game had no money. It was only short term until the comp could get regions with more money (like they did with Gold Coast and TV deals), and also with more clubs from big cities. In my opinion, the initial league was a necessary evil, and with the salary cap largely a placebo I think the competition was "truer" The A League failed to move to the second step. It instead decided to box, label and package the initial league. The longer it goes, the more fake and transparent it becomes. Particularly as the players we are seeing are of a higher caliber than Muscat at the end of his career and Yorke at the end of his As for CCM, yes they have been successful, because we dont have an open league. We have already seen them fall off the pace with minimal allowances. This is literally the point I am making. You can boast about the success of CCM in a national league and the highest honours they have won because the league allows it. We let our nephew win a chess game I dont have a problem with CCM, Newcastle, Wollongong, Geelong or any regional team. I want to see them in the A League and wish them the best. The issue I have is they need to compete on their own merits and in the professional game that is player investment. Not rules prohibiting a club from signing too many good players so constant disruption forces an artificial shuffle each year Are you aware what would happen if the cap was removed, Crowd numbers would dwindle, scores more predictable, clubs less profitable, team numbers would reduce, talent coming through this would reduce, less qualification on an international stage as there is less talent, and Australia moves down the footballing ladder. Thats nothing more than fear based worst case scenario speculation Crowds have dwindled, attendances have dropped, clubs are less profitable, broadcasters arent bidding for our game, talent has dropped off, we are risking not qualifying even though Asia, we are poor in the ACL, football has moved down the ladder - and all of this was before COVID, and all with a salary cap Its ridiculous to think that Australia doesnt have the money and interest in a national competitive league based on choices made by two codes when they became professional. If the cap was dropped some of the teams in the A League will be the biggest football clubs of any code in this country. Your prediction - less interest. Less profit. Less talent etc... Based on what? You're kidding yourself if you think 12 teams the size of CCM is going to drive up interest, profit and talent. In fact spreading the best players across 12 clubs means even more diluted talent for the bigger clubs. Things are only going to get worse as we add more teams All this is based off your opinion. If you want to see what happens when finances aren't regulated have a look at the dying days of the NSL, club turn over was next level. Your view point is so much recycled and "copy and paste" from a previous era that you think the flaws of the game that I pointed out above are my opinion Secondly you think taking a single maximum figure and applying it to player salaries only is going to stop clubs from going broke. If the salary cap is about financial regulation then why is it the same for the big clubs as it is for the small clubs? Why have we seen A League clubs go broke, several might I add, despite a salary cap? Also you throw in the classic NSL line. You do realise that the NSL was a semi professional league with no major TV deal or commercial backing?Every single flaw you have pointed out in removing the salary cap is a fact of the current game. You dont know what it does. You just know our code will die without one Wasn't the Phillips Soccer League and Coca-Cola Soccer League shown on channel 10. I think Eddie Everywhere may have also been involved. The key word was "major" Soccer Australia had a TV deal and I think it was $1mil in total for 7 years That was a long time ago in an era of inflation and at least was on a major channel. What would that be in 2005 when the first season of the A-League got $750000 on subscription TV? Realistically that NSL TV deal had better access and was better value than the first A-League deal. Thats right. When the A League started, football had no value. The code was dead and buried, people were skeptical, and even a club like Melbourne was put on a deal where they could slowly pay the FFA back for their licence This is what I meant before when I said the initial A League was a necessary evil. People use today's support and interest as a paradox to say what the first year of the A League should have looked like. But everything stemmed from a 1 city, 1 club model. Consolidated support and sponsorship, a sound commercial model, and when things started to pay off - a serious TV deal But as I said, the initial A League was a first step. There wasnt 2 teams from big cities but people knew there would be. There wasnt a womens or youth league but people knew there would be. There wasnt a second tier but people knew there would be. All of this was part of the initial vision Once the FFA started to see the size of the dollars rolling in they decided the initial A League was the product and thats what they have been trying to sell ever since. And along with thats sales pitch comes the fear that if we dont follow the strict script set out for top tier football codes in this country the game will die. What a load of shit We have (had?) the amount of money in our game that we always dreamed of. And instead of building a sensible football model with big clubs, success in Asia, and improvement at the top level, we have ended up as a light weight AFL / NRL played with a round ball So basically we should be aiming to let our clubs become the Real Madrid of Asia? Thats 100% right When Australia joined Asia they were one of the biggest countries (which was the incentive for Asia to give us a gig). In fact more people in some Asian countries wore Kewell shirts when we played them than their own country. They had the same issues we had I know we can never match the spending power of China and Japan, but the 3+1 rule means the best country in the ACL is the one that does the most with local talent. So Australia has a good chance to step ahead of the pack and thats what we should be aiming for If we let CFG and the like cut loose, some of the teams in the A League will be bigger than those in the AFL / NRL. Saturday night games will be epic and teams like CCM will profit from home games like we have seen with visiting marquees in the past. And that was just one player The AFL can get away with an ambiguous standard because there is nothing to compare it to. If a team thrown into West Sydney is the best the country has to offer, or a Melbourne team playing rugby, then people will buy it. But our code will always be compared to an international standard. We have to aim higher than seeing which teams win a closed off league So who regulates to stop over expenditure. How does the league ensure strong growth. Especially if the league develops into a 3 team league ( as would most likely be the end result)? Try this: Go to the bank, ask for a $100 million loan, and let us know how you go There are plenty of mechanisms that stop over expenditure. For example: The checks and measures put in place when hand picking the teams allowed in the A League. Or did they pick negligent and reckless clubs and think "shit, we better have a salary cap" This fear of teams going bust trying to win the Australian league is just that - fear. In fact, you have contradicted yourself because on one hand you are saying teams are going to overspend and go bust, but then you say only 3 teams will be competitive. So which is it? And who chooses which 3 teams? Is it fan vote? Do they draw straws? We have a 4+1 rule in place. 3 good teams means we only have 60 good players How does no salary cap ensure strong growth? Simple. Big Melbourne and Sydney clubs mean better players which means more interest. And we have seen this with ratings and attendances. More interest means more sponsorship and investment, and also a bigger TV deal. A bigger TV deal and shared sponsorship means more money for clubs like CCM The German model, which people here say is one of the most sound, operates wholey and soley on the concept of parachute payments. No big top tier, no second tier. Pure and simple If you think the league can grow from that one CCM vs Perth game where either team can win on their day, I'm not seeing it
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patjennings
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 6.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAs somebody who is also a fan of women's sport it doesnt matter if I see the highest possible athletic people at the top of their game. All sport has the same drama, excitement, club connections, triumphs, fails etc... that makes sport something that consumes our weekends So to me it doesnt matter that the A League isnt the EPL, it is still the premier Australian league and for the first 6 years of the competition it actually meant something to me
Where the A League lost it for me was taking the initial necessary (arguably) model and keeping it as "the" product. Sport, first and foremost, should be competitive. This tired formula of teams taking it in turns in winning so fans dont get sad just doesnt cut it for me. Its like letting your nephew beat you in chess I enjoyed the W League in the early stages because even though there were only 1 or 2 competitive teams (those linked to Australian sports institutions), competition drives competition. Adelaide stepped up. Melbourne stepped up. Regions that didnt have much investment in the women's game stepped up, and the women's game as a whole has benefited. We see that in the Matildas. Now the league is more open and other teams can win it - because they earnt it (through one method or another). But the longer the W League goes on the more it is destined to be tarred with the same brush as the men's game (salary cap and other anti competitive measures so we can pretend regions are good) I havent watched a single A League game this season. I tried and turned it off after 30 seconds. I dont even check the results. I havent renewed my membership and I'm not going to either. Rigged sport is just tedious. And while some may argue wages largely determines who wins in an open competition, thats the professional game. Thats a national game. Even in the semi professional and amateur era there is always one driver that makes a region stronger than the other If you want balance, watch an under 12s local competition. If you want to see sport at the highest level in a country with a national framework, then accept that Gosford is not the best the country has to offer. If you can enjoy the world cup even though Australia cant win, but can improve that little bit each time, then you can enjoy the A League as a competitive league also Sorry but your narrative is counter-intuitive. You really enjoyed the A-League when the salary sap was strict. As the cap has been changed so that it doesn't reflect a cap at all you have lost interest as the larger teams dominate ever year. Also what is your obsession with Gosford? CCM have still won more domestically than Perth, Wellington, Melbourne City, WSW, Newcastle as well as Western United and Macarthur of course. Only Sydney, Victory, Brisbane and Adelaide with their FFA cup wins has been more successful. When all of them have won more than CCM you can start your obsession again. BTW - I'm happy for the cap to go - just don't follow your argument When the A League first launched there were only 2 regions with money for a game with zero interest. Setting up a professional national competition with 1 team per city and only 2 teams with money is destined for a Scotland scenario. Rightfully or wrongly, a salary cap helped distribute the players equally amongst the clubs to help the league grow a national professional status when the game had no money. It was only short term until the comp could get regions with more money (like they did with Gold Coast and TV deals), and also with more clubs from big cities. In my opinion, the initial league was a necessary evil, and with the salary cap largely a placebo I think the competition was "truer" The A League failed to move to the second step. It instead decided to box, label and package the initial league. The longer it goes, the more fake and transparent it becomes. Particularly as the players we are seeing are of a higher caliber than Muscat at the end of his career and Yorke at the end of his As for CCM, yes they have been successful, because we dont have an open league. We have already seen them fall off the pace with minimal allowances. This is literally the point I am making. You can boast about the success of CCM in a national league and the highest honours they have won because the league allows it. We let our nephew win a chess game I dont have a problem with CCM, Newcastle, Wollongong, Geelong or any regional team. I want to see them in the A League and wish them the best. The issue I have is they need to compete on their own merits and in the professional game that is player investment. Not rules prohibiting a club from signing too many good players so constant disruption forces an artificial shuffle each year Are you aware what would happen if the cap was removed, Crowd numbers would dwindle, scores more predictable, clubs less profitable, team numbers would reduce, talent coming through this would reduce, less qualification on an international stage as there is less talent, and Australia moves down the footballing ladder. Thats nothing more than fear based worst case scenario speculation Crowds have dwindled, attendances have dropped, clubs are less profitable, broadcasters arent bidding for our game, talent has dropped off, we are risking not qualifying even though Asia, we are poor in the ACL, football has moved down the ladder - and all of this was before COVID, and all with a salary cap Its ridiculous to think that Australia doesnt have the money and interest in a national competitive league based on choices made by two codes when they became professional. If the cap was dropped some of the teams in the A League will be the biggest football clubs of any code in this country. Your prediction - less interest. Less profit. Less talent etc... Based on what? You're kidding yourself if you think 12 teams the size of CCM is going to drive up interest, profit and talent. In fact spreading the best players across 12 clubs means even more diluted talent for the bigger clubs. Things are only going to get worse as we add more teams All this is based off your opinion. If you want to see what happens when finances aren't regulated have a look at the dying days of the NSL, club turn over was next level. Your view point is so much recycled and "copy and paste" from a previous era that you think the flaws of the game that I pointed out above are my opinion Secondly you think taking a single maximum figure and applying it to player salaries only is going to stop clubs from going broke. If the salary cap is about financial regulation then why is it the same for the big clubs as it is for the small clubs? Why have we seen A League clubs go broke, several might I add, despite a salary cap? Also you throw in the classic NSL line. You do realise that the NSL was a semi professional league with no major TV deal or commercial backing?Every single flaw you have pointed out in removing the salary cap is a fact of the current game. You dont know what it does. You just know our code will die without one Wasn't the Phillips Soccer League and Coca-Cola Soccer League shown on channel 10. I think Eddie Everywhere may have also been involved. The key word was "major" Soccer Australia had a TV deal and I think it was $1mil in total for 7 years That was a long time ago in an era of inflation and at least was on a major channel. What would that be in 2005 when the first season of the A-League got $750000 on subscription TV? Realistically that NSL TV deal had better access and was better value than the first A-League deal. Thats right. When the A League started, football had no value. The code was dead and buried, people were skeptical, and even a club like Melbourne was put on a deal where they could slowly pay the FFA back for their licence This is what I meant before when I said the initial A League was a necessary evil. People use today's support and interest as a paradox to say what the first year of the A League should have looked like. But everything stemmed from a 1 city, 1 club model. Consolidated support and sponsorship, a sound commercial model, and when things started to pay off - a serious TV deal But as I said, the initial A League was a first step. There wasnt 2 teams from big cities but people knew there would be. There wasnt a womens or youth league but people knew there would be. There wasnt a second tier but people knew there would be. All of this was part of the initial vision Once the FFA started to see the size of the dollars rolling in they decided the initial A League was the product and thats what they have been trying to sell ever since. And along with thats sales pitch comes the fear that if we dont follow the strict script set out for top tier football codes in this country the game will die. What a load of shit We have (had?) the amount of money in our game that we always dreamed of. And instead of building a sensible football model with big clubs, success in Asia, and improvement at the top level, we have ended up as a light weight AFL / NRL played with a round ball So basically we should be aiming to let our clubs become the Real Madrid of Asia? Thats 100% right When Australia joined Asia they were one of the biggest countries (which was the incentive for Asia to give us a gig). In fact more people in some Asian countries wore Kewell shirts when we played them than their own country. They had the same issues we had I know we can never match the spending power of China and Japan, but the 3+1 rule means the best country in the ACL is the one that does the most with local talent. So Australia has a good chance to step ahead of the pack and thats what we should be aiming for If we let CFG and the like cut loose, some of the teams in the A League will be bigger than those in the AFL / NRL. Saturday night games will be epic and teams like CCM will profit from home games like we have seen with visiting marquees in the past. And that was just one player
The AFL can get away with an ambiguous standard because there is nothing to compare it to. If a team thrown into West Sydney is the best the country has to offer, or a Melbourne team playing rugby, then people will buy it. But our code will always be compared to an international standard. We have to aim higher than seeing which teams win a closed off league That really didn't happen except for the ADP one when he didn't turn up. The big crowds were when we were successful and one off tickets were cheap. The tickets for away supporters and/or casuals home supporters at every ground I have been to have been exorbitant. I pay $22 a game to sit on the halfway line 5 rows from the fence. If I go elsewhere I am often charged over $40 plus booking and stuck in a poor bay. Tickets should be a premium to season tickets but that is pure gouging and is dampening crowd numbers. A family of 4 or 5 from SFC, NUJ, MCB or WSW just are not going to come to Central Coat Stadium and spend that money - plus more for stadium food and drink. There are so many other thinks they will spend there money on first, Fix that and we can expect large bays of travelling support.
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bluebird2
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 648,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAs somebody who is also a fan of women's sport it doesnt matter if I see the highest possible athletic people at the top of their game. All sport has the same drama, excitement, club connections, triumphs, fails etc... that makes sport something that consumes our weekends So to me it doesnt matter that the A League isnt the EPL, it is still the premier Australian league and for the first 6 years of the competition it actually meant something to me
Where the A League lost it for me was taking the initial necessary (arguably) model and keeping it as "the" product. Sport, first and foremost, should be competitive. This tired formula of teams taking it in turns in winning so fans dont get sad just doesnt cut it for me. Its like letting your nephew beat you in chess I enjoyed the W League in the early stages because even though there were only 1 or 2 competitive teams (those linked to Australian sports institutions), competition drives competition. Adelaide stepped up. Melbourne stepped up. Regions that didnt have much investment in the women's game stepped up, and the women's game as a whole has benefited. We see that in the Matildas. Now the league is more open and other teams can win it - because they earnt it (through one method or another). But the longer the W League goes on the more it is destined to be tarred with the same brush as the men's game (salary cap and other anti competitive measures so we can pretend regions are good) I havent watched a single A League game this season. I tried and turned it off after 30 seconds. I dont even check the results. I havent renewed my membership and I'm not going to either. Rigged sport is just tedious. And while some may argue wages largely determines who wins in an open competition, thats the professional game. Thats a national game. Even in the semi professional and amateur era there is always one driver that makes a region stronger than the other If you want balance, watch an under 12s local competition. If you want to see sport at the highest level in a country with a national framework, then accept that Gosford is not the best the country has to offer. If you can enjoy the world cup even though Australia cant win, but can improve that little bit each time, then you can enjoy the A League as a competitive league also Sorry but your narrative is counter-intuitive. You really enjoyed the A-League when the salary sap was strict. As the cap has been changed so that it doesn't reflect a cap at all you have lost interest as the larger teams dominate ever year. Also what is your obsession with Gosford? CCM have still won more domestically than Perth, Wellington, Melbourne City, WSW, Newcastle as well as Western United and Macarthur of course. Only Sydney, Victory, Brisbane and Adelaide with their FFA cup wins has been more successful. When all of them have won more than CCM you can start your obsession again. BTW - I'm happy for the cap to go - just don't follow your argument When the A League first launched there were only 2 regions with money for a game with zero interest. Setting up a professional national competition with 1 team per city and only 2 teams with money is destined for a Scotland scenario. Rightfully or wrongly, a salary cap helped distribute the players equally amongst the clubs to help the league grow a national professional status when the game had no money. It was only short term until the comp could get regions with more money (like they did with Gold Coast and TV deals), and also with more clubs from big cities. In my opinion, the initial league was a necessary evil, and with the salary cap largely a placebo I think the competition was "truer" The A League failed to move to the second step. It instead decided to box, label and package the initial league. The longer it goes, the more fake and transparent it becomes. Particularly as the players we are seeing are of a higher caliber than Muscat at the end of his career and Yorke at the end of his As for CCM, yes they have been successful, because we dont have an open league. We have already seen them fall off the pace with minimal allowances. This is literally the point I am making. You can boast about the success of CCM in a national league and the highest honours they have won because the league allows it. We let our nephew win a chess game I dont have a problem with CCM, Newcastle, Wollongong, Geelong or any regional team. I want to see them in the A League and wish them the best. The issue I have is they need to compete on their own merits and in the professional game that is player investment. Not rules prohibiting a club from signing too many good players so constant disruption forces an artificial shuffle each year Are you aware what would happen if the cap was removed, Crowd numbers would dwindle, scores more predictable, clubs less profitable, team numbers would reduce, talent coming through this would reduce, less qualification on an international stage as there is less talent, and Australia moves down the footballing ladder. Thats nothing more than fear based worst case scenario speculation Crowds have dwindled, attendances have dropped, clubs are less profitable, broadcasters arent bidding for our game, talent has dropped off, we are risking not qualifying even though Asia, we are poor in the ACL, football has moved down the ladder - and all of this was before COVID, and all with a salary cap Its ridiculous to think that Australia doesnt have the money and interest in a national competitive league based on choices made by two codes when they became professional. If the cap was dropped some of the teams in the A League will be the biggest football clubs of any code in this country. Your prediction - less interest. Less profit. Less talent etc... Based on what? You're kidding yourself if you think 12 teams the size of CCM is going to drive up interest, profit and talent. In fact spreading the best players across 12 clubs means even more diluted talent for the bigger clubs. Things are only going to get worse as we add more teams All this is based off your opinion. If you want to see what happens when finances aren't regulated have a look at the dying days of the NSL, club turn over was next level. Your view point is so much recycled and "copy and paste" from a previous era that you think the flaws of the game that I pointed out above are my opinion Secondly you think taking a single maximum figure and applying it to player salaries only is going to stop clubs from going broke. If the salary cap is about financial regulation then why is it the same for the big clubs as it is for the small clubs? Why have we seen A League clubs go broke, several might I add, despite a salary cap? Also you throw in the classic NSL line. You do realise that the NSL was a semi professional league with no major TV deal or commercial backing?Every single flaw you have pointed out in removing the salary cap is a fact of the current game. You dont know what it does. You just know our code will die without one Wasn't the Phillips Soccer League and Coca-Cola Soccer League shown on channel 10. I think Eddie Everywhere may have also been involved. The key word was "major" Soccer Australia had a TV deal and I think it was $1mil in total for 7 years That was a long time ago in an era of inflation and at least was on a major channel. What would that be in 2005 when the first season of the A-League got $750000 on subscription TV? Realistically that NSL TV deal had better access and was better value than the first A-League deal. Thats right. When the A League started, football had no value. The code was dead and buried, people were skeptical, and even a club like Melbourne was put on a deal where they could slowly pay the FFA back for their licence This is what I meant before when I said the initial A League was a necessary evil. People use today's support and interest as a paradox to say what the first year of the A League should have looked like. But everything stemmed from a 1 city, 1 club model. Consolidated support and sponsorship, a sound commercial model, and when things started to pay off - a serious TV deal But as I said, the initial A League was a first step. There wasnt 2 teams from big cities but people knew there would be. There wasnt a womens or youth league but people knew there would be. There wasnt a second tier but people knew there would be. All of this was part of the initial vision Once the FFA started to see the size of the dollars rolling in they decided the initial A League was the product and thats what they have been trying to sell ever since. And along with thats sales pitch comes the fear that if we dont follow the strict script set out for top tier football codes in this country the game will die. What a load of shit We have (had?) the amount of money in our game that we always dreamed of. And instead of building a sensible football model with big clubs, success in Asia, and improvement at the top level, we have ended up as a light weight AFL / NRL played with a round ball So basically we should be aiming to let our clubs become the Real Madrid of Asia? Thats 100% right When Australia joined Asia they were one of the biggest countries (which was the incentive for Asia to give us a gig). In fact more people in some Asian countries wore Kewell shirts when we played them than their own country. They had the same issues we had I know we can never match the spending power of China and Japan, but the 3+1 rule means the best country in the ACL is the one that does the most with local talent. So Australia has a good chance to step ahead of the pack and thats what we should be aiming for If we let CFG and the like cut loose, some of the teams in the A League will be bigger than those in the AFL / NRL. Saturday night games will be epic and teams like CCM will profit from home games like we have seen with visiting marquees in the past. And that was just one player
The AFL can get away with an ambiguous standard because there is nothing to compare it to. If a team thrown into West Sydney is the best the country has to offer, or a Melbourne team playing rugby, then people will buy it. But our code will always be compared to an international standard. We have to aim higher than seeing which teams win a closed off league That really didn't happen except for the ADP one when he didn't turn up. The big crowds were when we were successful and one off tickets were cheap. The tickets for away supporters and/or casuals home supporters at every ground I have been to have been exorbitant. I pay $22 a game to sit on the halfway line 5 rows from the fence. If I go elsewhere I am often charged over $40 plus booking and stuck in a poor bay. Tickets should be a premium to season tickets but that is pure gouging and is dampening crowd numbers. A family of 4 or 5 from SFC, NUJ, MCB or WSW just are not going to come to Central Coat Stadium and spend that money - plus more for stadium food and drink. There are so many other thinks they will spend there money on first, Fix that and we can expect large bays of travelling support. I seem to recall the "will he or wont he" Kewell playing having an impact on a big crowd The early good crowds for CCM were more to do with success of the league rather than success of the team. Take a look at the 13/14 season for example. This was CCM's last successful season with a finish of 3rd. They got 17 and 13k against WSW twice. Other crowds were the standard 6k-11k range with most of them sub 10k Imagine if this was a star studded WSW team. Imagine if they also had a big clash against a star studded MV, MC or even SFC is the same year? And even if we could keep CCM at a 9k average with the occasional game over 10k by guaranteeing them long term success like the NRL do with Melbourne. Where is the pay off for the league as a whole? Where are the big away games for CCM? CCM (and the league as a whole) have more to gain from being a small team in the A League than by being one of the premier teams. I just cant see how we can get the interest and revenue required by holding our biggest teams back
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patjennings
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 6.5K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAs somebody who is also a fan of women's sport it doesnt matter if I see the highest possible athletic people at the top of their game. All sport has the same drama, excitement, club connections, triumphs, fails etc... that makes sport something that consumes our weekends So to me it doesnt matter that the A League isnt the EPL, it is still the premier Australian league and for the first 6 years of the competition it actually meant something to me
Where the A League lost it for me was taking the initial necessary (arguably) model and keeping it as "the" product. Sport, first and foremost, should be competitive. This tired formula of teams taking it in turns in winning so fans dont get sad just doesnt cut it for me. Its like letting your nephew beat you in chess I enjoyed the W League in the early stages because even though there were only 1 or 2 competitive teams (those linked to Australian sports institutions), competition drives competition. Adelaide stepped up. Melbourne stepped up. Regions that didnt have much investment in the women's game stepped up, and the women's game as a whole has benefited. We see that in the Matildas. Now the league is more open and other teams can win it - because they earnt it (through one method or another). But the longer the W League goes on the more it is destined to be tarred with the same brush as the men's game (salary cap and other anti competitive measures so we can pretend regions are good) I havent watched a single A League game this season. I tried and turned it off after 30 seconds. I dont even check the results. I havent renewed my membership and I'm not going to either. Rigged sport is just tedious. And while some may argue wages largely determines who wins in an open competition, thats the professional game. Thats a national game. Even in the semi professional and amateur era there is always one driver that makes a region stronger than the other If you want balance, watch an under 12s local competition. If you want to see sport at the highest level in a country with a national framework, then accept that Gosford is not the best the country has to offer. If you can enjoy the world cup even though Australia cant win, but can improve that little bit each time, then you can enjoy the A League as a competitive league also Sorry but your narrative is counter-intuitive. You really enjoyed the A-League when the salary sap was strict. As the cap has been changed so that it doesn't reflect a cap at all you have lost interest as the larger teams dominate ever year. Also what is your obsession with Gosford? CCM have still won more domestically than Perth, Wellington, Melbourne City, WSW, Newcastle as well as Western United and Macarthur of course. Only Sydney, Victory, Brisbane and Adelaide with their FFA cup wins has been more successful. When all of them have won more than CCM you can start your obsession again. BTW - I'm happy for the cap to go - just don't follow your argument When the A League first launched there were only 2 regions with money for a game with zero interest. Setting up a professional national competition with 1 team per city and only 2 teams with money is destined for a Scotland scenario. Rightfully or wrongly, a salary cap helped distribute the players equally amongst the clubs to help the league grow a national professional status when the game had no money. It was only short term until the comp could get regions with more money (like they did with Gold Coast and TV deals), and also with more clubs from big cities. In my opinion, the initial league was a necessary evil, and with the salary cap largely a placebo I think the competition was "truer" The A League failed to move to the second step. It instead decided to box, label and package the initial league. The longer it goes, the more fake and transparent it becomes. Particularly as the players we are seeing are of a higher caliber than Muscat at the end of his career and Yorke at the end of his As for CCM, yes they have been successful, because we dont have an open league. We have already seen them fall off the pace with minimal allowances. This is literally the point I am making. You can boast about the success of CCM in a national league and the highest honours they have won because the league allows it. We let our nephew win a chess game I dont have a problem with CCM, Newcastle, Wollongong, Geelong or any regional team. I want to see them in the A League and wish them the best. The issue I have is they need to compete on their own merits and in the professional game that is player investment. Not rules prohibiting a club from signing too many good players so constant disruption forces an artificial shuffle each year Are you aware what would happen if the cap was removed, Crowd numbers would dwindle, scores more predictable, clubs less profitable, team numbers would reduce, talent coming through this would reduce, less qualification on an international stage as there is less talent, and Australia moves down the footballing ladder. Thats nothing more than fear based worst case scenario speculation Crowds have dwindled, attendances have dropped, clubs are less profitable, broadcasters arent bidding for our game, talent has dropped off, we are risking not qualifying even though Asia, we are poor in the ACL, football has moved down the ladder - and all of this was before COVID, and all with a salary cap Its ridiculous to think that Australia doesnt have the money and interest in a national competitive league based on choices made by two codes when they became professional. If the cap was dropped some of the teams in the A League will be the biggest football clubs of any code in this country. Your prediction - less interest. Less profit. Less talent etc... Based on what? You're kidding yourself if you think 12 teams the size of CCM is going to drive up interest, profit and talent. In fact spreading the best players across 12 clubs means even more diluted talent for the bigger clubs. Things are only going to get worse as we add more teams All this is based off your opinion. If you want to see what happens when finances aren't regulated have a look at the dying days of the NSL, club turn over was next level. Your view point is so much recycled and "copy and paste" from a previous era that you think the flaws of the game that I pointed out above are my opinion Secondly you think taking a single maximum figure and applying it to player salaries only is going to stop clubs from going broke. If the salary cap is about financial regulation then why is it the same for the big clubs as it is for the small clubs? Why have we seen A League clubs go broke, several might I add, despite a salary cap? Also you throw in the classic NSL line. You do realise that the NSL was a semi professional league with no major TV deal or commercial backing?Every single flaw you have pointed out in removing the salary cap is a fact of the current game. You dont know what it does. You just know our code will die without one Wasn't the Phillips Soccer League and Coca-Cola Soccer League shown on channel 10. I think Eddie Everywhere may have also been involved. The key word was "major" Soccer Australia had a TV deal and I think it was $1mil in total for 7 years That was a long time ago in an era of inflation and at least was on a major channel. What would that be in 2005 when the first season of the A-League got $750000 on subscription TV? Realistically that NSL TV deal had better access and was better value than the first A-League deal. Thats right. When the A League started, football had no value. The code was dead and buried, people were skeptical, and even a club like Melbourne was put on a deal where they could slowly pay the FFA back for their licence This is what I meant before when I said the initial A League was a necessary evil. People use today's support and interest as a paradox to say what the first year of the A League should have looked like. But everything stemmed from a 1 city, 1 club model. Consolidated support and sponsorship, a sound commercial model, and when things started to pay off - a serious TV deal But as I said, the initial A League was a first step. There wasnt 2 teams from big cities but people knew there would be. There wasnt a womens or youth league but people knew there would be. There wasnt a second tier but people knew there would be. All of this was part of the initial vision Once the FFA started to see the size of the dollars rolling in they decided the initial A League was the product and thats what they have been trying to sell ever since. And along with thats sales pitch comes the fear that if we dont follow the strict script set out for top tier football codes in this country the game will die. What a load of shit We have (had?) the amount of money in our game that we always dreamed of. And instead of building a sensible football model with big clubs, success in Asia, and improvement at the top level, we have ended up as a light weight AFL / NRL played with a round ball So basically we should be aiming to let our clubs become the Real Madrid of Asia? Thats 100% right When Australia joined Asia they were one of the biggest countries (which was the incentive for Asia to give us a gig). In fact more people in some Asian countries wore Kewell shirts when we played them than their own country. They had the same issues we had I know we can never match the spending power of China and Japan, but the 3+1 rule means the best country in the ACL is the one that does the most with local talent. So Australia has a good chance to step ahead of the pack and thats what we should be aiming for If we let CFG and the like cut loose, some of the teams in the A League will be bigger than those in the AFL / NRL. Saturday night games will be epic and teams like CCM will profit from home games like we have seen with visiting marquees in the past. And that was just one player
The AFL can get away with an ambiguous standard because there is nothing to compare it to. If a team thrown into West Sydney is the best the country has to offer, or a Melbourne team playing rugby, then people will buy it. But our code will always be compared to an international standard. We have to aim higher than seeing which teams win a closed off league That really didn't happen except for the ADP one when he didn't turn up. The big crowds were when we were successful and one off tickets were cheap. The tickets for away supporters and/or casuals home supporters at every ground I have been to have been exorbitant. I pay $22 a game to sit on the halfway line 5 rows from the fence. If I go elsewhere I am often charged over $40 plus booking and stuck in a poor bay. Tickets should be a premium to season tickets but that is pure gouging and is dampening crowd numbers. A family of 4 or 5 from SFC, NUJ, MCB or WSW just are not going to come to Central Coat Stadium and spend that money - plus more for stadium food and drink. There are so many other thinks they will spend there money on first, Fix that and we can expect large bays of travelling support. I seem to recall the "will he or wont he" Kewell playing having an impact on a big crowd The early good crowds for CCM were more to do with success of the league rather than success of the team. Take a look at the 13/14 season for example. This was CCM's last successful season with a finish of 3rd . They got 17 and 13k against WSW twice. Other crowds were the standard 6k-11k range with most of them sub 10k Imagine if this was a star studded WSW team. Imagine if they also had a big clash against a star studded MV, MC or even SFC is the same year? And even if we could keep CCM at a 9k average with the occasional game over 10k by guaranteeing them long term success like the NRL do with Melbourne. Where is the pay off for the league as a whole? Where are the big away games for CCM? CCM (and the league as a whole) have more to gain from being a small team in the A League than by being one of the premier teams. I just cant see how we can get the interest and revenue required by holding our biggest teams back First - I don't want to hold the big teams back. Second the WSW crowd going down has more to do with the prices (than the quality of their team) I alluded to for away fans and casual fans that have skyrocketed at all grounds since that time. Fix that and you will have bigger crowds at WSW, NUJ, CCM, SFC and MCB in NSW and probably the same for the Vic teams. Don't gey me wrong fix the prices AND let the big teams go to their potential. But travelling fans (not the hardcores) are,not attending anywhere. Derbies or rivalries give aslight bump for all teams - but they should be getting major bumps in crowds for those games
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ErogenousZone
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Group: Forum Members
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+xThe stigma around it not being a top league or that it’s a boring sport. Starting this thread it's indicative that you obviously do. ;)
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ErogenousZone
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAs somebody who is also a fan of women's sport it doesnt matter if I see the highest possible athletic people at the top of their game. All sport has the same drama, excitement, club connections, triumphs, fails etc... that makes sport something that consumes our weekends So to me it doesnt matter that the A League isnt the EPL, it is still the premier Australian league and for the first 6 years of the competition it actually meant something to me
Where the A League lost it for me was taking the initial necessary (arguably) model and keeping it as "the" product. Sport, first and foremost, should be competitive. This tired formula of teams taking it in turns in winning so fans dont get sad just doesnt cut it for me. Its like letting your nephew beat you in chess I enjoyed the W League in the early stages because even though there were only 1 or 2 competitive teams (those linked to Australian sports institutions), competition drives competition. Adelaide stepped up. Melbourne stepped up. Regions that didnt have much investment in the women's game stepped up, and the women's game as a whole has benefited. We see that in the Matildas. Now the league is more open and other teams can win it - because they earnt it (through one method or another). But the longer the W League goes on the more it is destined to be tarred with the same brush as the men's game (salary cap and other anti competitive measures so we can pretend regions are good) I havent watched a single A League game this season. I tried and turned it off after 30 seconds. I dont even check the results. I havent renewed my membership and I'm not going to either. Rigged sport is just tedious. And while some may argue wages largely determines who wins in an open competition, thats the professional game. Thats a national game. Even in the semi professional and amateur era there is always one driver that makes a region stronger than the other If you want balance, watch an under 12s local competition. If you want to see sport at the highest level in a country with a national framework, then accept that Gosford is not the best the country has to offer. If you can enjoy the world cup even though Australia cant win, but can improve that little bit each time, then you can enjoy the A League as a competitive league also Sorry but your narrative is counter-intuitive. You really enjoyed the A-League when the salary sap was strict. As the cap has been changed so that it doesn't reflect a cap at all you have lost interest as the larger teams dominate ever year. Also what is your obsession with Gosford? CCM have still won more domestically than Perth, Wellington, Melbourne City, WSW, Newcastle as well as Western United and Macarthur of course. Only Sydney, Victory, Brisbane and Adelaide with their FFA cup wins has been more successful. When all of them have won more than CCM you can start your obsession again. BTW - I'm happy for the cap to go - just don't follow your argument When the A League first launched there were only 2 regions with money for a game with zero interest. Setting up a professional national competition with 1 team per city and only 2 teams with money is destined for a Scotland scenario. Rightfully or wrongly, a salary cap helped distribute the players equally amongst the clubs to help the league grow a national professional status when the game had no money. It was only short term until the comp could get regions with more money (like they did with Gold Coast and TV deals), and also with more clubs from big cities. In my opinion, the initial league was a necessary evil, and with the salary cap largely a placebo I think the competition was "truer" The A League failed to move to the second step. It instead decided to box, label and package the initial league. The longer it goes, the more fake and transparent it becomes. Particularly as the players we are seeing are of a higher caliber than Muscat at the end of his career and Yorke at the end of his As for CCM, yes they have been successful, because we dont have an open league. We have already seen them fall off the pace with minimal allowances. This is literally the point I am making. You can boast about the success of CCM in a national league and the highest honours they have won because the league allows it. We let our nephew win a chess game I dont have a problem with CCM, Newcastle, Wollongong, Geelong or any regional team. I want to see them in the A League and wish them the best. The issue I have is they need to compete on their own merits and in the professional game that is player investment. Not rules prohibiting a club from signing too many good players so constant disruption forces an artificial shuffle each year Are you aware what would happen if the cap was removed, Crowd numbers would dwindle, scores more predictable, clubs less profitable, team numbers would reduce, talent coming through this would reduce, less qualification on an international stage as there is less talent, and Australia moves down the footballing ladder. Thats nothing more than fear based worst case scenario speculation Crowds have dwindled, attendances have dropped, clubs are less profitable, broadcasters arent bidding for our game, talent has dropped off, we are risking not qualifying even though Asia, we are poor in the ACL, football has moved down the ladder - and all of this was before COVID, and all with a salary cap Its ridiculous to think that Australia doesnt have the money and interest in a national competitive league based on choices made by two codes when they became professional. If the cap was dropped some of the teams in the A League will be the biggest football clubs of any code in this country. Your prediction - less interest. Less profit. Less talent etc... Based on what? You're kidding yourself if you think 12 teams the size of CCM is going to drive up interest, profit and talent. In fact spreading the best players across 12 clubs means even more diluted talent for the bigger clubs. Things are only going to get worse as we add more teams All this is based off your opinion. If you want to see what happens when finances aren't regulated have a look at the dying days of the NSL, club turn over was next level. Your view point is so much recycled and "copy and paste" from a previous era that you think the flaws of the game that I pointed out above are my opinion Secondly you think taking a single maximum figure and applying it to player salaries only is going to stop clubs from going broke. If the salary cap is about financial regulation then why is it the same for the big clubs as it is for the small clubs? Why have we seen A League clubs go broke, several might I add, despite a salary cap? Also you throw in the classic NSL line. You do realise that the NSL was a semi professional league with no major TV deal or commercial backing?Every single flaw you have pointed out in removing the salary cap is a fact of the current game. You dont know what it does. You just know our code will die without one Wasn't the Phillips Soccer League and Coca-Cola Soccer League shown on channel 10. I think Eddie Everywhere may have also been involved. The key word was "major" Soccer Australia had a TV deal and I think it was $1mil in total for 7 years That was a long time ago in an era of inflation and at least was on a major channel. What would that be in 2005 when the first season of the A-League got $750000 on subscription TV? Realistically that NSL TV deal had better access and was better value than the first A-League deal. Thats right. When the A League started, football had no value. The code was dead and buried, people were skeptical, and even a club like Melbourne was put on a deal where they could slowly pay the FFA back for their licence This is what I meant before when I said the initial A League was a necessary evil. People use today's support and interest as a paradox to say what the first year of the A League should have looked like. But everything stemmed from a 1 city, 1 club model. Consolidated support and sponsorship, a sound commercial model, and when things started to pay off - a serious TV deal But as I said, the initial A League was a first step. There wasnt 2 teams from big cities but people knew there would be. There wasnt a womens or youth league but people knew there would be. There wasnt a second tier but people knew there would be. All of this was part of the initial vision Once the FFA started to see the size of the dollars rolling in they decided the initial A League was the product and thats what they have been trying to sell ever since. And along with thats sales pitch comes the fear that if we dont follow the strict script set out for top tier football codes in this country the game will die. What a load of shit We have (had?) the amount of money in our game that we always dreamed of. And instead of building a sensible football model with big clubs, success in Asia, and improvement at the top level, we have ended up as a light weight AFL / NRL played with a round ball So basically we should be aiming to let our clubs become the Real Madrid of Asia? Thats 100% right When Australia joined Asia they were one of the biggest countries (which was the incentive for Asia to give us a gig). In fact more people in some Asian countries wore Kewell shirts when we played them than their own country. They had the same issues we had I know we can never match the spending power of China and Japan, but the 3+1 rule means the best country in the ACL is the one that does the most with local talent. So Australia has a good chance to step ahead of the pack and thats what we should be aiming for If we let CFG and the like cut loose, some of the teams in the A League will be bigger than those in the AFL / NRL. Saturday night games will be epic and teams like CCM will profit from home games like we have seen with visiting marquees in the past. And that was just one player The AFL can get away with an ambiguous standard because there is nothing to compare it to. If a team thrown into West Sydney is the best the country has to offer, or a Melbourne team playing rugby, then people will buy it. But our code will always be compared to an international standard. We have to aim higher than seeing which teams win a closed off league So who regulates to stop over expenditure. How does the league ensure strong growth. Especially if the league develops into a 3 team league ( as would most likely be the end result)? How about the fear of relegation? .... just a thought. Don't be silly. We're unique or something like that.
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Melbcityguy
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.3K,
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+x+xThe stigma around it not being a top league or that it’s a boring sport. Starting this thread it's indicative that you obviously do. ;) You should be a psychologist
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DandyCasey
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 276,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAs somebody who is also a fan of women's sport it doesnt matter if I see the highest possible athletic people at the top of their game. All sport has the same drama, excitement, club connections, triumphs, fails etc... that makes sport something that consumes our weekends So to me it doesnt matter that the A League isnt the EPL, it is still the premier Australian league and for the first 6 years of the competition it actually meant something to me
Where the A League lost it for me was taking the initial necessary (arguably) model and keeping it as "the" product. Sport, first and foremost, should be competitive. This tired formula of teams taking it in turns in winning so fans dont get sad just doesnt cut it for me. Its like letting your nephew beat you in chess I enjoyed the W League in the early stages because even though there were only 1 or 2 competitive teams (those linked to Australian sports institutions), competition drives competition. Adelaide stepped up. Melbourne stepped up. Regions that didnt have much investment in the women's game stepped up, and the women's game as a whole has benefited. We see that in the Matildas. Now the league is more open and other teams can win it - because they earnt it (through one method or another). But the longer the W League goes on the more it is destined to be tarred with the same brush as the men's game (salary cap and other anti competitive measures so we can pretend regions are good) I havent watched a single A League game this season. I tried and turned it off after 30 seconds. I dont even check the results. I havent renewed my membership and I'm not going to either. Rigged sport is just tedious. And while some may argue wages largely determines who wins in an open competition, thats the professional game. Thats a national game. Even in the semi professional and amateur era there is always one driver that makes a region stronger than the other If you want balance, watch an under 12s local competition. If you want to see sport at the highest level in a country with a national framework, then accept that Gosford is not the best the country has to offer. If you can enjoy the world cup even though Australia cant win, but can improve that little bit each time, then you can enjoy the A League as a competitive league also Sorry but your narrative is counter-intuitive. You really enjoyed the A-League when the salary sap was strict. As the cap has been changed so that it doesn't reflect a cap at all you have lost interest as the larger teams dominate ever year. Also what is your obsession with Gosford? CCM have still won more domestically than Perth, Wellington, Melbourne City, WSW, Newcastle as well as Western United and Macarthur of course. Only Sydney, Victory, Brisbane and Adelaide with their FFA cup wins has been more successful. When all of them have won more than CCM you can start your obsession again. BTW - I'm happy for the cap to go - just don't follow your argument When the A League first launched there were only 2 regions with money for a game with zero interest. Setting up a professional national competition with 1 team per city and only 2 teams with money is destined for a Scotland scenario. Rightfully or wrongly, a salary cap helped distribute the players equally amongst the clubs to help the league grow a national professional status when the game had no money. It was only short term until the comp could get regions with more money (like they did with Gold Coast and TV deals), and also with more clubs from big cities. In my opinion, the initial league was a necessary evil, and with the salary cap largely a placebo I think the competition was "truer" The A League failed to move to the second step. It instead decided to box, label and package the initial league. The longer it goes, the more fake and transparent it becomes. Particularly as the players we are seeing are of a higher caliber than Muscat at the end of his career and Yorke at the end of his As for CCM, yes they have been successful, because we dont have an open league. We have already seen them fall off the pace with minimal allowances. This is literally the point I am making. You can boast about the success of CCM in a national league and the highest honours they have won because the league allows it. We let our nephew win a chess game I dont have a problem with CCM, Newcastle, Wollongong, Geelong or any regional team. I want to see them in the A League and wish them the best. The issue I have is they need to compete on their own merits and in the professional game that is player investment. Not rules prohibiting a club from signing too many good players so constant disruption forces an artificial shuffle each year Are you aware what would happen if the cap was removed, Crowd numbers would dwindle, scores more predictable, clubs less profitable, team numbers would reduce, talent coming through this would reduce, less qualification on an international stage as there is less talent, and Australia moves down the footballing ladder. Thats nothing more than fear based worst case scenario speculation Crowds have dwindled, attendances have dropped, clubs are less profitable, broadcasters arent bidding for our game, talent has dropped off, we are risking not qualifying even though Asia, we are poor in the ACL, football has moved down the ladder - and all of this was before COVID, and all with a salary cap Its ridiculous to think that Australia doesnt have the money and interest in a national competitive league based on choices made by two codes when they became professional. If the cap was dropped some of the teams in the A League will be the biggest football clubs of any code in this country. Your prediction - less interest. Less profit. Less talent etc... Based on what? You're kidding yourself if you think 12 teams the size of CCM is going to drive up interest, profit and talent. In fact spreading the best players across 12 clubs means even more diluted talent for the bigger clubs. Things are only going to get worse as we add more teams All this is based off your opinion. If you want to see what happens when finances aren't regulated have a look at the dying days of the NSL, club turn over was next level. Your view point is so much recycled and "copy and paste" from a previous era that you think the flaws of the game that I pointed out above are my opinion Secondly you think taking a single maximum figure and applying it to player salaries only is going to stop clubs from going broke. If the salary cap is about financial regulation then why is it the same for the big clubs as it is for the small clubs? Why have we seen A League clubs go broke, several might I add, despite a salary cap? Also you throw in the classic NSL line. You do realise that the NSL was a semi professional league with no major TV deal or commercial backing?Every single flaw you have pointed out in removing the salary cap is a fact of the current game. You dont know what it does. You just know our code will die without one Wasn't the Phillips Soccer League and Coca-Cola Soccer League shown on channel 10. I think Eddie Everywhere may have also been involved. The key word was "major" Soccer Australia had a TV deal and I think it was $1mil in total for 7 years That was a long time ago in an era of inflation and at least was on a major channel. What would that be in 2005 when the first season of the A-League got $750000 on subscription TV? Realistically that NSL TV deal had better access and was better value than the first A-League deal. Thats right. When the A League started, football had no value. The code was dead and buried, people were skeptical, and even a club like Melbourne was put on a deal where they could slowly pay the FFA back for their licence This is what I meant before when I said the initial A League was a necessary evil. People use today's support and interest as a paradox to say what the first year of the A League should have looked like. But everything stemmed from a 1 city, 1 club model. Consolidated support and sponsorship, a sound commercial model, and when things started to pay off - a serious TV deal But as I said, the initial A League was a first step. There wasnt 2 teams from big cities but people knew there would be. There wasnt a womens or youth league but people knew there would be. There wasnt a second tier but people knew there would be. All of this was part of the initial vision Once the FFA started to see the size of the dollars rolling in they decided the initial A League was the product and thats what they have been trying to sell ever since. And along with thats sales pitch comes the fear that if we dont follow the strict script set out for top tier football codes in this country the game will die. What a load of shit We have (had?) the amount of money in our game that we always dreamed of. And instead of building a sensible football model with big clubs, success in Asia, and improvement at the top level, we have ended up as a light weight AFL / NRL played with a round ball So basically we should be aiming to let our clubs become the Real Madrid of Asia? Thats 100% right When Australia joined Asia they were one of the biggest countries (which was the incentive for Asia to give us a gig). In fact more people in some Asian countries wore Kewell shirts when we played them than their own country. They had the same issues we had I know we can never match the spending power of China and Japan, but the 3+1 rule means the best country in the ACL is the one that does the most with local talent. So Australia has a good chance to step ahead of the pack and thats what we should be aiming for If we let CFG and the like cut loose, some of the teams in the A League will be bigger than those in the AFL / NRL. Saturday night games will be epic and teams like CCM will profit from home games like we have seen with visiting marquees in the past. And that was just one player The AFL can get away with an ambiguous standard because there is nothing to compare it to. If a team thrown into West Sydney is the best the country has to offer, or a Melbourne team playing rugby, then people will buy it. But our code will always be compared to an international standard. We have to aim higher than seeing which teams win a closed off league So who regulates to stop over expenditure. How does the league ensure strong growth. Especially if the league develops into a 3 team league ( as would most likely be the end result)? How about the fear of relegation? .... just a thought. Don't be silly. We're unique or something like that. Not unique at all, wouldn't want to upset the NRL/AFL punters.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.4K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAs somebody who is also a fan of women's sport it doesnt matter if I see the highest possible athletic people at the top of their game. All sport has the same drama, excitement, club connections, triumphs, fails etc... that makes sport something that consumes our weekends So to me it doesnt matter that the A League isnt the EPL, it is still the premier Australian league and for the first 6 years of the competition it actually meant something to me
Where the A League lost it for me was taking the initial necessary (arguably) model and keeping it as "the" product. Sport, first and foremost, should be competitive. This tired formula of teams taking it in turns in winning so fans dont get sad just doesnt cut it for me. Its like letting your nephew beat you in chess I enjoyed the W League in the early stages because even though there were only 1 or 2 competitive teams (those linked to Australian sports institutions), competition drives competition. Adelaide stepped up. Melbourne stepped up. Regions that didnt have much investment in the women's game stepped up, and the women's game as a whole has benefited. We see that in the Matildas. Now the league is more open and other teams can win it - because they earnt it (through one method or another). But the longer the W League goes on the more it is destined to be tarred with the same brush as the men's game (salary cap and other anti competitive measures so we can pretend regions are good) I havent watched a single A League game this season. I tried and turned it off after 30 seconds. I dont even check the results. I havent renewed my membership and I'm not going to either. Rigged sport is just tedious. And while some may argue wages largely determines who wins in an open competition, thats the professional game. Thats a national game. Even in the semi professional and amateur era there is always one driver that makes a region stronger than the other If you want balance, watch an under 12s local competition. If you want to see sport at the highest level in a country with a national framework, then accept that Gosford is not the best the country has to offer. If you can enjoy the world cup even though Australia cant win, but can improve that little bit each time, then you can enjoy the A League as a competitive league also Sorry but your narrative is counter-intuitive. You really enjoyed the A-League when the salary sap was strict. As the cap has been changed so that it doesn't reflect a cap at all you have lost interest as the larger teams dominate ever year. Also what is your obsession with Gosford? CCM have still won more domestically than Perth, Wellington, Melbourne City, WSW, Newcastle as well as Western United and Macarthur of course. Only Sydney, Victory, Brisbane and Adelaide with their FFA cup wins has been more successful. When all of them have won more than CCM you can start your obsession again. BTW - I'm happy for the cap to go - just don't follow your argument When the A League first launched there were only 2 regions with money for a game with zero interest. Setting up a professional national competition with 1 team per city and only 2 teams with money is destined for a Scotland scenario. Rightfully or wrongly, a salary cap helped distribute the players equally amongst the clubs to help the league grow a national professional status when the game had no money. It was only short term until the comp could get regions with more money (like they did with Gold Coast and TV deals), and also with more clubs from big cities. In my opinion, the initial league was a necessary evil, and with the salary cap largely a placebo I think the competition was "truer" The A League failed to move to the second step. It instead decided to box, label and package the initial league. The longer it goes, the more fake and transparent it becomes. Particularly as the players we are seeing are of a higher caliber than Muscat at the end of his career and Yorke at the end of his As for CCM, yes they have been successful, because we dont have an open league. We have already seen them fall off the pace with minimal allowances. This is literally the point I am making. You can boast about the success of CCM in a national league and the highest honours they have won because the league allows it. We let our nephew win a chess game I dont have a problem with CCM, Newcastle, Wollongong, Geelong or any regional team. I want to see them in the A League and wish them the best. The issue I have is they need to compete on their own merits and in the professional game that is player investment. Not rules prohibiting a club from signing too many good players so constant disruption forces an artificial shuffle each year Are you aware what would happen if the cap was removed, Crowd numbers would dwindle, scores more predictable, clubs less profitable, team numbers would reduce, talent coming through this would reduce, less qualification on an international stage as there is less talent, and Australia moves down the footballing ladder. Thats nothing more than fear based worst case scenario speculation Crowds have dwindled, attendances have dropped, clubs are less profitable, broadcasters arent bidding for our game, talent has dropped off, we are risking not qualifying even though Asia, we are poor in the ACL, football has moved down the ladder - and all of this was before COVID, and all with a salary cap Its ridiculous to think that Australia doesnt have the money and interest in a national competitive league based on choices made by two codes when they became professional. If the cap was dropped some of the teams in the A League will be the biggest football clubs of any code in this country. Your prediction - less interest. Less profit. Less talent etc... Based on what? You're kidding yourself if you think 12 teams the size of CCM is going to drive up interest, profit and talent. In fact spreading the best players across 12 clubs means even more diluted talent for the bigger clubs. Things are only going to get worse as we add more teams All this is based off your opinion. If you want to see what happens when finances aren't regulated have a look at the dying days of the NSL, club turn over was next level. Your view point is so much recycled and "copy and paste" from a previous era that you think the flaws of the game that I pointed out above are my opinion Secondly you think taking a single maximum figure and applying it to player salaries only is going to stop clubs from going broke. If the salary cap is about financial regulation then why is it the same for the big clubs as it is for the small clubs? Why have we seen A League clubs go broke, several might I add, despite a salary cap? Also you throw in the classic NSL line. You do realise that the NSL was a semi professional league with no major TV deal or commercial backing?Every single flaw you have pointed out in removing the salary cap is a fact of the current game. You dont know what it does. You just know our code will die without one Wasn't the Phillips Soccer League and Coca-Cola Soccer League shown on channel 10. I think Eddie Everywhere may have also been involved. The key word was "major" Soccer Australia had a TV deal and I think it was $1mil in total for 7 years That was a long time ago in an era of inflation and at least was on a major channel. What would that be in 2005 when the first season of the A-League got $750000 on subscription TV? Realistically that NSL TV deal had better access and was better value than the first A-League deal. Thats right. When the A League started, football had no value. The code was dead and buried, people were skeptical, and even a club like Melbourne was put on a deal where they could slowly pay the FFA back for their licence This is what I meant before when I said the initial A League was a necessary evil. People use today's support and interest as a paradox to say what the first year of the A League should have looked like. But everything stemmed from a 1 city, 1 club model. Consolidated support and sponsorship, a sound commercial model, and when things started to pay off - a serious TV deal But as I said, the initial A League was a first step. There wasnt 2 teams from big cities but people knew there would be. There wasnt a womens or youth league but people knew there would be. There wasnt a second tier but people knew there would be. All of this was part of the initial vision Once the FFA started to see the size of the dollars rolling in they decided the initial A League was the product and thats what they have been trying to sell ever since. And along with thats sales pitch comes the fear that if we dont follow the strict script set out for top tier football codes in this country the game will die. What a load of shit We have (had?) the amount of money in our game that we always dreamed of. And instead of building a sensible football model with big clubs, success in Asia, and improvement at the top level, we have ended up as a light weight AFL / NRL played with a round ball So basically we should be aiming to let our clubs become the Real Madrid of Asia? Thats 100% right When Australia joined Asia they were one of the biggest countries (which was the incentive for Asia to give us a gig). In fact more people in some Asian countries wore Kewell shirts when we played them than their own country. They had the same issues we had I know we can never match the spending power of China and Japan, but the 3+1 rule means the best country in the ACL is the one that does the most with local talent. So Australia has a good chance to step ahead of the pack and thats what we should be aiming for If we let CFG and the like cut loose, some of the teams in the A League will be bigger than those in the AFL / NRL. Saturday night games will be epic and teams like CCM will profit from home games like we have seen with visiting marquees in the past. And that was just one player The AFL can get away with an ambiguous standard because there is nothing to compare it to. If a team thrown into West Sydney is the best the country has to offer, or a Melbourne team playing rugby, then people will buy it. But our code will always be compared to an international standard. We have to aim higher than seeing which teams win a closed off league So who regulates to stop over expenditure. How does the league ensure strong growth. Especially if the league develops into a 3 team league ( as would most likely be the end result)? How about the fear of relegation? .... just a thought. Don't be silly. We're unique or something like that. Not unique at all, wouldn't want to upset the NRL/AFL punters. And don't forget losing the geographical sales region if a franchise is relegated 🤣
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
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lots of talk about salary cap and why it exists ie to stop excessive spending and clubs going broke. That is not the primary reason for it.
Its there to even out the competition so that the same clubs with the most money don't keep winning nearly all the time Its a noble idea but seems many people want a league with 4 clubs sharing titles between them and the others as the support act. Of course the people who want that also happen to be invested in one of those 4 clubs. Funny about that-always back self interest. At least you know its trying.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAs somebody who is also a fan of women's sport it doesnt matter if I see the highest possible athletic people at the top of their game. All sport has the same drama, excitement, club connections, triumphs, fails etc... that makes sport something that consumes our weekends So to me it doesnt matter that the A League isnt the EPL, it is still the premier Australian league and for the first 6 years of the competition it actually meant something to me
Where the A League lost it for me was taking the initial necessary (arguably) model and keeping it as "the" product. Sport, first and foremost, should be competitive. This tired formula of teams taking it in turns in winning so fans dont get sad just doesnt cut it for me. Its like letting your nephew beat you in chess I enjoyed the W League in the early stages because even though there were only 1 or 2 competitive teams (those linked to Australian sports institutions), competition drives competition. Adelaide stepped up. Melbourne stepped up. Regions that didnt have much investment in the women's game stepped up, and the women's game as a whole has benefited. We see that in the Matildas. Now the league is more open and other teams can win it - because they earnt it (through one method or another). But the longer the W League goes on the more it is destined to be tarred with the same brush as the men's game (salary cap and other anti competitive measures so we can pretend regions are good) I havent watched a single A League game this season. I tried and turned it off after 30 seconds. I dont even check the results. I havent renewed my membership and I'm not going to either. Rigged sport is just tedious. And while some may argue wages largely determines who wins in an open competition, thats the professional game. Thats a national game. Even in the semi professional and amateur era there is always one driver that makes a region stronger than the other If you want balance, watch an under 12s local competition. If you want to see sport at the highest level in a country with a national framework, then accept that Gosford is not the best the country has to offer. If you can enjoy the world cup even though Australia cant win, but can improve that little bit each time, then you can enjoy the A League as a competitive league also Sorry but your narrative is counter-intuitive. You really enjoyed the A-League when the salary sap was strict. As the cap has been changed so that it doesn't reflect a cap at all you have lost interest as the larger teams dominate ever year. Also what is your obsession with Gosford? CCM have still won more domestically than Perth, Wellington, Melbourne City, WSW, Newcastle as well as Western United and Macarthur of course. Only Sydney, Victory, Brisbane and Adelaide with their FFA cup wins has been more successful. When all of them have won more than CCM you can start your obsession again. BTW - I'm happy for the cap to go - just don't follow your argument When the A League first launched there were only 2 regions with money for a game with zero interest. Setting up a professional national competition with 1 team per city and only 2 teams with money is destined for a Scotland scenario. Rightfully or wrongly, a salary cap helped distribute the players equally amongst the clubs to help the league grow a national professional status when the game had no money. It was only short term until the comp could get regions with more money (like they did with Gold Coast and TV deals), and also with more clubs from big cities. In my opinion, the initial league was a necessary evil, and with the salary cap largely a placebo I think the competition was "truer" The A League failed to move to the second step. It instead decided to box, label and package the initial league. The longer it goes, the more fake and transparent it becomes. Particularly as the players we are seeing are of a higher caliber than Muscat at the end of his career and Yorke at the end of his As for CCM, yes they have been successful, because we dont have an open league. We have already seen them fall off the pace with minimal allowances. This is literally the point I am making. You can boast about the success of CCM in a national league and the highest honours they have won because the league allows it. We let our nephew win a chess game I dont have a problem with CCM, Newcastle, Wollongong, Geelong or any regional team. I want to see them in the A League and wish them the best. The issue I have is they need to compete on their own merits and in the professional game that is player investment. Not rules prohibiting a club from signing too many good players so constant disruption forces an artificial shuffle each year Are you aware what would happen if the cap was removed, Crowd numbers would dwindle, scores more predictable, clubs less profitable, team numbers would reduce, talent coming through this would reduce, less qualification on an international stage as there is less talent, and Australia moves down the footballing ladder. Thats nothing more than fear based worst case scenario speculation Crowds have dwindled, attendances have dropped, clubs are less profitable, broadcasters arent bidding for our game, talent has dropped off, we are risking not qualifying even though Asia, we are poor in the ACL, football has moved down the ladder - and all of this was before COVID, and all with a salary cap Its ridiculous to think that Australia doesnt have the money and interest in a national competitive league based on choices made by two codes when they became professional. If the cap was dropped some of the teams in the A League will be the biggest football clubs of any code in this country. Your prediction - less interest. Less profit. Less talent etc... Based on what? You're kidding yourself if you think 12 teams the size of CCM is going to drive up interest, profit and talent. In fact spreading the best players across 12 clubs means even more diluted talent for the bigger clubs. Things are only going to get worse as we add more teams All this is based off your opinion. If you want to see what happens when finances aren't regulated have a look at the dying days of the NSL, club turn over was next level. Your view point is so much recycled and "copy and paste" from a previous era that you think the flaws of the game that I pointed out above are my opinion Secondly you think taking a single maximum figure and applying it to player salaries only is going to stop clubs from going broke. If the salary cap is about financial regulation then why is it the same for the big clubs as it is for the small clubs? Why have we seen A League clubs go broke, several might I add, despite a salary cap? Also you throw in the classic NSL line. You do realise that the NSL was a semi professional league with no major TV deal or commercial backing?Every single flaw you have pointed out in removing the salary cap is a fact of the current game. You dont know what it does. You just know our code will die without one Wasn't the Phillips Soccer League and Coca-Cola Soccer League shown on channel 10. I think Eddie Everywhere may have also been involved. The key word was "major" Soccer Australia had a TV deal and I think it was $1mil in total for 7 years That was a long time ago in an era of inflation and at least was on a major channel. What would that be in 2005 when the first season of the A-League got $750000 on subscription TV? Realistically that NSL TV deal had better access and was better value than the first A-League deal. Thats right. When the A League started, football had no value. The code was dead and buried, people were skeptical, and even a club like Melbourne was put on a deal where they could slowly pay the FFA back for their licence This is what I meant before when I said the initial A League was a necessary evil. People use today's support and interest as a paradox to say what the first year of the A League should have looked like. But everything stemmed from a 1 city, 1 club model. Consolidated support and sponsorship, a sound commercial model, and when things started to pay off - a serious TV deal But as I said, the initial A League was a first step. There wasnt 2 teams from big cities but people knew there would be. There wasnt a womens or youth league but people knew there would be. There wasnt a second tier but people knew there would be. All of this was part of the initial vision Once the FFA started to see the size of the dollars rolling in they decided the initial A League was the product and thats what they have been trying to sell ever since. And along with thats sales pitch comes the fear that if we dont follow the strict script set out for top tier football codes in this country the game will die. What a load of shit We have (had?) the amount of money in our game that we always dreamed of. And instead of building a sensible football model with big clubs, success in Asia, and improvement at the top level, we have ended up as a light weight AFL / NRL played with a round ball So basically we should be aiming to let our clubs become the Real Madrid of Asia? Thats 100% right When Australia joined Asia they were one of the biggest countries (which was the incentive for Asia to give us a gig). In fact more people in some Asian countries wore Kewell shirts when we played them than their own country. They had the same issues we had I know we can never match the spending power of China and Japan, but the 3+1 rule means the best country in the ACL is the one that does the most with local talent. So Australia has a good chance to step ahead of the pack and thats what we should be aiming for If we let CFG and the like cut loose, some of the teams in the A League will be bigger than those in the AFL / NRL. Saturday night games will be epic and teams like CCM will profit from home games like we have seen with visiting marquees in the past. And that was just one player
The AFL can get away with an ambiguous standard because there is nothing to compare it to. If a team thrown into West Sydney is the best the country has to offer, or a Melbourne team playing rugby, then people will buy it. But our code will always be compared to an international standard. We have to aim higher than seeing which teams win a closed off league That really didn't happen except for the ADP one when he didn't turn up. The big crowds were when we were successful and one off tickets were cheap. The tickets for away supporters and/or casuals home supporters at every ground I have been to have been exorbitant. I pay $22 a game to sit on the halfway line 5 rows from the fence. If I go elsewhere I am often charged over $40 plus booking and stuck in a poor bay. Tickets should be a premium to season tickets but that is pure gouging and is dampening crowd numbers. A family of 4 or 5 from SFC, NUJ, MCB or WSW just are not going to come to Central Coat Stadium and spend that money - plus more for stadium food and drink. There are so many other thinks they will spend there money on first, Fix that and we can expect large bays of travelling support. I seem to recall the "will he or wont he" Kewell playing having an impact on a big crowd The early good crowds for CCM were more to do with success of the league rather than success of the team. Take a look at the 13/14 season for example. This was CCM's last successful season with a finish of 3rd. They got 17 and 13k against WSW twice. Other crowds were the standard 6k-11k range with most of them sub 10k Imagine if this was a star studded WSW team. Imagine if they also had a big clash against a star studded MV, MC or even SFC is the same year? And even if we could keep CCM at a 9k average with the occasional game over 10k by guaranteeing them long term success like the NRL do with Melbourne. Where is the pay off for the league as a whole? Where are the big away games for CCM? CCM (and the league as a whole) have more to gain from being a small team in the A League than by being one of the premier teams. I just cant see how we can get the interest and revenue required by holding our biggest teams back what were their away crowds under Arnold?
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paladisious
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 39K,
Visits: 0
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+xlots of talk about salary cap and why it exists ie to stop excessive spending and clubs going broke. That is not the primary reason for it. Its there to even out the competition so that the same clubs with the most money don't keep winning nearly all the time Its a noble idea but seems many people want a league with 4 clubs sharing titles between them and the others as the support act. Of course the people who want that also happen to be invested in one of those 4 clubs. Funny about that-always back self interest. At least you know its trying. We've got the cap and we've seen the same clubs at either end of the table for the last few years anyway. Time to try something else. I think the Lowy model hurts clubs living within their means and bringing through youth more than the big city clubs.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+xlots of talk about salary cap and why it exists ie to stop excessive spending and clubs going broke. That is not the primary reason for it. Its there to even out the competition so that the same clubs with the most money don't keep winning nearly all the time Its a noble idea but seems many people want a league with 4 clubs sharing titles between them and the others as the support act. Of course the people who want that also happen to be invested in one of those 4 clubs. Funny about that-always back self interest. At least you know its trying. We've got the cap and we've seen the same clubs at either end of the table for the last few years anyway. Time to try something else. I think the Lowy model hurts clubs living within their means and bringing through youth more than the big city clubs. but that wasnt the case before. Mariners and Roar were dominating the league for few years there. so what happened? ok so introduce market transfers and hold players to contracts. it depends on what your objective is. if you're happy with a lob-sided competition which may or may not improve metrics then get rid of the cap and see where it leads. they dont seem to care in europe...well maybe they do
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paladisious
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Group: Moderators
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+x+x+xlots of talk about salary cap and why it exists ie to stop excessive spending and clubs going broke. That is not the primary reason for it. Its there to even out the competition so that the same clubs with the most money don't keep winning nearly all the time Its a noble idea but seems many people want a league with 4 clubs sharing titles between them and the others as the support act. Of course the people who want that also happen to be invested in one of those 4 clubs. Funny about that-always back self interest. At least you know its trying. We've got the cap and we've seen the same clubs at either end of the table for the last few years anyway. Time to try something else. I think the Lowy model hurts clubs living within their means and bringing through youth more than the big city clubs. but that wasnt the case before. Mariners and Roar were dominating the league for few years there. so what happened? They both had hot streaks with the right people in the right place at the right time, it happens in club football. ok so introduce market transfers and hold players to contracts.
it depends on what your objective is. if you're happy with a lob-sided competition which may or may not improve metrics then get rid of the cap and see where it leads. they dont seem to care in europe...well maybe they do
I think removing the cap (ceiling and floor) and allowing transfers would give clubs like CCM the ability to lock youth investments in to contracts and then be able to make money from domestic and international transfers more often than losing them for free than under the current system. Australian clubs made less money in transfers than Iraqi, Thai and Canadian clubs in 2019, so definitely something's amiss.
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Melbcityguy
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Group: Forum Members
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Great discussion guys
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aufc_ole
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Group: Forum Members
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Is it about developing better players and competing with the other Asian/world clubs or about metrics and making the competition "fair?"
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
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+xIs it about developing better players and competing with the other Asian/world clubs or about metrics and making the competition "fair?" see thats the weird thing....how many players have the big clubs developed and gone on to Europe and how many from the smaller ones? Or the World Cup? Seems to me if given more money, the big clubs will not spend on development anyway. City just recently the exception
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paladisious
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 39K,
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+x+xIs it about developing better players and competing with the other Asian/world clubs or about metrics and making the competition "fair?" see thats the weird thing....how many players have the big clubs developed and gone on to Europe and how many from the smaller ones? Or the World Cup? Seems to me if given more money, the big clubs will not spend on development anyway. City just recently the exception I would say the current system disincentivises investing in youth, and that more clubs would do it if things changed.
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bluebird2
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Group: Forum Members
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+xlots of talk about salary cap and why it exists ie to stop excessive spending and clubs going broke. That is not the primary reason for it. Its there to even out the competition so that the same clubs with the most money don't keep winning nearly all the time Its a noble idea but seems many people want a league with 4 clubs sharing titles between them and the others as the support act. Of course the people who want that also happen to be invested in one of those 4 clubs. Funny about that-always back self interest. At least you know its trying. Thats not true. The purpose of a salary cap is literally to regulate the market on player payments. Imagine if any accountant can only make $75k. There would be no incentive for regional accountants to travel to Melbourne for a bigger job so they stay put We see this in the AFL. With a regulated payment market there is no incentive for the majority of players to switch clubs, so this results in more player retention Does it balance the league? Far from it. Anybody who thinks so doesnt understand the nature of competitive sport. Richmond were good last season, the season before and the season before that. Hawthorn put together a decent run and so did Brisbane at the start of the century The balancing mechanism for the AFL is concessions and a draft system. Thats right. The same governing body that introduced a salary cap system for fairness then adds two rules so they get to choose the successful teams None of the above is applicable to the A League because we dont control the player wage market, we dont have a draft system and our concessions are moot (despite best attempts to rig the league). We have seen this with Nabout and seemingly countless other players who have had their price established by an overseas club, gone overseas, and then come back at an even higher price The only time the salary cap arguably worked was in the first season or two of the league when we had pretty much a pool of state league players. In that sense we did control the player market and were were able to stop the only 2 big city clubs from ending up with all the talent. This is no longer the case The salary cap is a big fat placebo. Any team that wins is picked apart and the following season we see a "new" team. More teams have won from 5th place or lower the season before than not. It really is a relegation from the top system. You can get the same effect by simply watching the second tier of any league But the balance within a single season simply isnt there. The gap from top to bottom is no different to the top 12 from other leagues around the world Not only is the A League trying to implement a salary cap system when it doesnt control the player payment market, they are also trying to use it to balance the league when it doesnt even do that anyway. The only reason we have a salary cap is because the other leagues do. No more. No less
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Enzo Bearzot
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Your examples of where different teams are premiers but only within a small window irrespective of their size of support or revenue shows the salary cap works at equalising the AFL. In the last 20 years there have been 11 different winners.
In the EPL its 6 including single wins for Liverpool and Leicester. in La liga its 4 including a single win for Atletico. In Germany its 5.
You attribute the AFL outcome solely to the draft and concessions. No doubt they have some affect but with no salary cap in place nothing is stopping the likes of Collingwood and Richmond to use their larger revenue to buy the best talent after they have been drafted, making the draft system pointless.
If you want to emulate Europe with your team as one of the 4 that dominates and shares it around then just say so. No need for a long justification.
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