Caleb Watts impressive Saints debut


Caleb Watts impressive Saints debut

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https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/he-s-a-wonderful-talent-aussie-teen-praised-after-impressive-saints-debut

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I was also reading people over on the Southampton subreddit were pretty happy with him.
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Is this guy another ancestory.com Boyle/Souttar ring in?  Has he ever played any club or junior football in Australia? 
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lebo_roo - 21 Jan 2021 7:56 AM
Is this guy another ancestory.com Boyle/Souttar ring in?  Has he ever played any club or junior football in Australia? 

His dad is born and bred in Australia. His cousins on that side of the family all live in Australia. This is not an ancestry ring in, this is a guy who identifies as Australian yet lives abroad. 
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sportaddict - 21 Jan 2021 8:21 AM
lebo_roo - 21 Jan 2021 7:56 AM

His dad is born and bred in Australia. His cousins on that side of the family all live in Australia. This is not an ancestry ring in, this is a guy who identifies as Australian yet lives abroad. 

Yet Australian football, clubs or otherwise have had nothing to do with producing him as a footballer. Why do we produce players for? We may as well go back to the 1970's and fill the Socceroos with foreigners who were brought here to play football and ended up playing for the NT because we were no good. What is the point of having a stronger NT if the players have nothing to do with our system. Caleb is as much an Australian footballer as Liam Chipperfield is or Lucas Neill's son is at Liverpool is. 
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lebo_roo - 21 Jan 2021 9:25 AM
sportaddict - 21 Jan 2021 8:21 AM

Yet Australian football, clubs or otherwise have had nothing to do with producing him as a footballer. Why do we produce players for? We may as well go back to the 1970's and fill the Socceroos with foreigners who were brought here to play football and ended up playing for the NT because we were no good. What is the point of having a stronger NT if the players have nothing to do with our system. Caleb is as much an Australian footballer as Liam Chipperfield is or Lucas Neill's son is at Liverpool is. 

Do you want us to be half decent? The scouts here have no idea what they are doing, they are looking for Buddy Franklin the soccer player..big.. tall..strong..fast.. these are the guys that get picked up not the small technical guy that can actually develop into a quality player. Too much emphasis on athleticism like all the other codes.... I'm not sure if its an aussie thing but we have major issues identifying talent here. You can see that now with the amount of young guys coming through the a-league due to the clubs being forced to play them - you have coaches still wanting to sign Simon and Zadkovich.

Any you have the audacity to whinge about a young guy going overseas when he is young. Why? Cause the development system here is a fucking train wreck.
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lebo_roo - 21 Jan 2021 9:25 AM
sportaddict - 21 Jan 2021 8:21 AM

Yet Australian football, clubs or otherwise have had nothing to do with producing him as a footballer. Why do we produce players for? We may as well go back to the 1970's and fill the Socceroos with foreigners who were brought here to play football and ended up playing for the NT because we were no good. What is the point of having a stronger NT if the players have nothing to do with our system. Caleb is as much an Australian footballer as Liam Chipperfield is or Lucas Neill's son is at Liverpool is. 

He identifies himself as an Australian. This can happen both ways.

Josip Simunic was born & bred in Australia played all his junior football including going to the AIS, he played over 100 times for Croatia & played in 2 world cups.
He was asked why after using the AIS government funds did he not play for Australia, he said I'm Croatian, I have businesses in Australia & pay tax & I've repaid & much more, next question.
Simunic identifies himself as Croatian.

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robbos - 21 Jan 2021 11:38 AM
lebo_roo - 21 Jan 2021 9:25 AM

He identifies himself as an Australian. This can happen both ways.

Josip Simunic was born & bred in Australia played all his junior football including going to the AIS, he played over 100 times for Croatia & played in 2 world cups.
He was asked why after using the AIS government funds did he not play for Australia, he said I'm Croatian, I have businesses in Australia & pay tax & I've repaid & much more, next question.
Simunic identifies himself as Croatian.

Not about identity politics for me. Its purely about what we footballers we produce. That is what and why i follow Australian football. I love the Socceroos because they came through our junior system our clubs. We play international football to compare our system's with others. This isn't club football where you poach players. 
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lebo_roo - 21 Jan 2021 2:03 PM
robbos - 21 Jan 2021 11:38 AM

Not about identity politics for me. Its purely about what we footballers we produce. That is what and why i follow Australian football. I love the Socceroos because they came through our junior system our clubs. We play international football to compare our system's with others. This isn't club football where you poach players. 

Let's be honest I always have a different view on the players that are born an raised overseas but if they can add value then I dont see why not, as long we dont go overboard with it.

Players developed here is definitely more about pride and what they represent to us, ive come to the conclusion about the new wave of Australian football talent that the issue has never been about whether we got the players its more or less about the opportunities and ability to play enough when comparing with the overseas rivals.

Let's see if the tide could turn from watching recent aleague games...
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I don't have any issues if people with Australian heritage want to represent us. 

I only have issues when countries like China lash out the cash and naturalise players who have no prior historical or ancestral connection to that nation.
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JayEss - 21 Jan 2021 2:51 PM
I don't have any issues if people with Australian heritage want to represent us. 

I only have issues when countries like China lash out the cash and naturalise players who have no prior historical or ancestral connection to that nation.

China have been pathetic on that front, no wonder they cant develop their own talent in the CSL.
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I have the mantra of if they are eligible through family heritage or residency (provided they are 18 or under when their residency started) and would eligible for a citizenship (without Footballs intervention)  then its fine. As long as they aren't naturalised then i don't see an issue

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Barca4Life - 21 Jan 2021 2:46 PM
lebo_roo - 21 Jan 2021 2:03 PM

Let's be honest I always have a different view on the players that are born an raised overseas but if they can add value then I dont see why not, as long we dont go overboard with it.

Players developed here is definitely more about pride and what they represent to us, ive come to the conclusion about the new wave of Australian football talent that the issue has never been about whether we got the players its more or less about the opportunities and ability to play enough when comparing with the overseas rivals.

Let's see if the tide could turn from watching recent aleague games...

This is not unique to Australia, this is a world wide issue.
Look at Raheem Sterling & Didier Drogba, both left their country of birth at 5 years old, Raheem born in Jamaica plays for England & Didier born in Ivory Coast, played all junior football in France represented Ivory Coast.

Look at brothers Jerome & Kevin Prince Boateng, they play for different countries.

Some choose for financial reasons, some choose based on ability, some just feel more, like Simunic more of one country then another, similar to Watts.

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jas88 - 21 Jan 2021 10:25 AM
lebo_roo - 21 Jan 2021 9:25 AM

Do you want us to be half decent? The scouts here have no idea what they are doing, they are looking for Buddy Franklin the soccer player..big.. tall..strong..fast.. these are the guys that get picked up not the small technical guy that can actually develop into a quality player. Too much emphasis on athleticism like all the other codes.... I'm not sure if its an aussie thing but we have major issues identifying talent here. You can see that now with the amount of young guys coming through the a-league due to the clubs being forced to play them - you have coaches still wanting to sign Simon and Zadkovich.

Any you have the audacity to whinge about a young guy going overseas when he is young. Why? Cause the development system here is a fucking train wreck.

You could have been correct in the past that scouts were after players with the skill set  you suggest.

However, FFA developed a comprehensive list of attributes for scouts and player agents to  identify in players.

I can't remember all of them, and they are lying around somewhere in my garden shed, but a few were  surprises. 
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I'd like to think If my partner and I moved back to my missus' home country (Northern Ireland), and my kid was skillful enough to represent Australia they would choose to without being called imports, noting that my wife ain't a football fan, and the kids still 50% Australian. 
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huddo - 22 Jan 2021 2:06 PM
I'd like to think If my partner and I moved back to my missus' home country (Northern Ireland), and my kid was skillful enough to represent Australia they would choose to without being called imports, noting that my wife ain't a football fan, and the kids still 50% Australian. 

I agree 100%.
I get some people's point if it's a grandpa or something but far out.

If I didn't live here I would totally be raising my kid to feel Australian just as my dad raised me to feel Italian as well.

I see the Socceroos as "the best Australian footballers" and not "the best players that came through an Australian junior system for an arbitrary minimum period of time deemed appropriate by various nobodies above".
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Watts is a energetic player, I found him quite mobile for the Joeys at the 2019 World Cup dropping into midfield, playing on the wing occassionally, making forward runs in behind the striker...

I think he will bring some great qualities for the National Team if he's good enough of course.
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Caleb Watts made his PL debut this morning for Southampton.

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Davide82 - 22 Jan 2021 3:57 PM
huddo - 22 Jan 2021 2:06 PM

I agree 100%.
I get some people's point if it's a grandpa or something but far out.

If I didn't live here I would totally be raising my kid to feel Australian just as my dad raised me to feel Italian as well.

I see the Socceroos as "the best Australian footballers" and not "the best players that came through an Australian junior system for an arbitrary minimum period of time deemed appropriate by various nobodies above".

So would everyone's mind change if Mohamed Toure decided to play for Liberia instead of Australia because if we are adopting players here there and everywhere well then no one can complain when it happens to us, just as it happened in the past with the 3 Croatian boys. 
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lebo_roo - 27 Jan 2021 11:16 PM
Davide82 - 22 Jan 2021 3:57 PM

So would everyone's mind change if Mohamed Toure decided to play for Liberia instead of Australia because if we are adopting players here there and everywhere well then no one can complain when it happens to us, just as it happened in the past with the 3 Croatian boys. 

We're not adopting him, his Father is a born & bred Aussie, which makes Caleb an Aussie footballer. He identifies as an Aussie & wants to play for Australia. Have a look at his Instagram page - he literally says it was an honour to have the opportunity to represent his Country - sounds pretty clear to me
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SoccerooFan - 27 Jan 2021 11:42 PM
lebo_roo - 27 Jan 2021 11:16 PM

We're not adopting him, his Father is a born & bred Aussie, which makes Caleb an Aussie footballer. He identifies as an Aussie & wants to play for Australia. Have a look at his Instagram page - he literally says it was an honour to have the opportunity to represent his Country - sounds pretty clear to me

Moreover - his father literally contacted the then FFA to alert them about Caleb’s desire to represent Australia. 
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It’s an easy one really. 
Does he like vegemite? Yes, he plays for us. No, he doesn’t 

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josh sydneyfc - 28 Jan 2021 5:02 AM
It’s an easy one really. 
Does he like vegemite? Yes, he plays for us. No, he doesn’t 

People like vegemite?
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lebo_roo - 27 Jan 2021 11:16 PM
Davide82 - 22 Jan 2021 3:57 PM

So would everyone's mind change if Mohamed Toure decided to play for Liberia instead of Australia because if we are adopting players here there and everywhere well then no one can complain when it happens to us, just as it happened in the past with the 3 Croatian boys. 

I would see it as a lost opportunity for Australia, but it would be the choice of the player, simunic even stated he felt like a Croat playing in Australia, you can't argue with the blokes perception of himself if there is validity in the statement.
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huddo - 28 Jan 2021 7:47 AM
lebo_roo - 27 Jan 2021 11:16 PM

I would see it as a lost opportunity for Australia, but it would be the choice of the player, simunic even stated he felt like a Croat playing in Australia, you can't argue with the blokes perception of himself if there is validity in the statement.

Lyndon Dykes recently i feel like everyone was very good about it too. It happens to us all the time to be fair, so its all swings and roundabouts

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lebo_roo - 27 Jan 2021 11:16 PM
Davide82 - 22 Jan 2021 3:57 PM

So would everyone's mind change if Mohamed Toure decided to play for Liberia instead of Australia because if we are adopting players here there and everywhere well then no one can complain when it happens to us, just as it happened in the past with the 3 Croatian boys. 

Is it such an issue as a biased Australian to want what best for the socceroos, that being the best players we can get our hands on?

Just like you I would love to see our starting 11 be made up of Aussie born or raised players developed locally. However if non a player meets eligibility criteria and is superior to what we have locally then I say let him play.

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What did everyone say when there was a boy with the potential of playing for the Socceroos or another country.

'Cap Him'.

yep we have lost a few going the other way, swings & round abouts.

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Watts won’t allow the prospect of being a torchbearer for Australian hopes in the Premier League weigh on him.

“It’s a shame there aren’t more Australians here (at this level) but I’m sure there will be others coming along,” he said.

"I don’t think about it (being a rarity whose every move will be followed).

“I just focus on playing football - the more you buy into things, the more stress it brings.

“For me, it’s now about picking up as many minutes as I can before the end of the year.

“There have been a few injuries at the club, and as a young player you need those on your side to get an opportunity.

“The senior players have been really good to me, and in particular (England international) James Ward-Prowse has been helpful in a game situation especially, telling me what to do. That helps to calm any nerves.”

The son of a doctor, Watts has grandparents in Perth and an uncle, aunt and cousins in Sydney.

He speaks with a London twang courtesy of a childhood spent in the working class suburb of Willesden.

Though eligible for England, he’s hoping to follow up his appearance for Trevor Morgan’s Joeys at the U-17 World Cup in 2019 by joining the Olyroos and Socceroos setups.

“I’ll take it as it comes but I definitely want to play for the senior team and the Olyroos,” he added.

“It’s up to the coaches (Graham Arnold and assistant Rene Meulensteen) on who they think will help their team the most and hopefully I’ll be part of future squads.

https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2021/01/28/aussie-bolter-watts-savours-surreal-first-steps-premier-league-journey


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sydneyfc1987 - 28 Jan 2021 12:42 PM
lebo_roo - 27 Jan 2021 11:16 PM

Is it such an issue as a biased Australian to want what best for the socceroos, that being the best players we can get our hands on?

Just like you I would love to see our starting 11 be made up of Aussie born or raised players developed locally. However if non a player meets eligibility criteria and is superior to what we have locally then I say let him play.

Sure mate i want a strong Socceroos team also but if you add Watts to the other 2 thats potentially 3 out of a starting 11. Thats too much for me.

On another note the hypocrite Robbie Slater i remember was bagging the potential capping of Fran Karacic before Russia 2018 saying that he isn't  Aussie etc and now he has been awfully quiet since his mate Arnie has brought in Boyle and Souttar. Anyway everyone has their preference and on this one im on this side.
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jas88 - 21 Jan 2021 10:25 AM
lebo_roo - 21 Jan 2021 9:25 AM

The scouts here have no idea what they are doing, they are looking for Buddy Franklin the soccer player..big.. tall..strong..fast.. these are the guys that get picked up not the small technical guy that can actually develop into a quality player. Too much emphasis on athleticism like all the other codes.... 


I'm not sure exactly what attributes the scouts are assessing. But being big or being tall has nothing to do with athleticism. On this forum, this is about the most common misconception there is. Athleticism is most practically defined using Nike SPARQ (Speed Power Agility Reaction Quickness).

World-class wingbacks, wingers and strikers are almost always athletic (by this definition) - Thierry Henry (1.88m), Cristiano Ronaldo (1.85m), Lionel Messi (1.70m), Kaka (1.86m), Michael Owen (1.73m), Son Heung-Min (1.83m), Roberto Carlos (1.68m), Cafu (1.76m), Gareth Bale (1.85m), Romelu Lukaku (1.90m), Arjen Robben (1.80m).. Some of them are big, some of them are small, some of them are neither. All of them are (or were) fast and agile. For those positions, athleticism is crucial, just as technical ability and decision-making are crucial. It's almost impossible to become world-class in those positions without being fast and agile.

In central midfield, athleticism is less important. Some of the best central midfielders haven't been very athletic - Paul Scholes, Andres Iniesta, Xavi Hernandez, Andrea Pirlo.

jas88 - 21 Jan 2021 10:25 AM
lebo_roo - 21 Jan 2021 9:25 AM

Do you want us to be half decent? The scouts here have no idea what they are doing, they are looking for Buddy Franklin the soccer player..big.. tall..strong..fast.


Because the Socceroos would be no better if they had, at their peaks:
Virgil van Dijk (1.93m), Zinedine Zidane (1.85m), Patrick Vieira (1.92m), Ruud Gullit (1.91m), Frank Rijkaard (1.90m), Patrick Kluivert (1.88m), Paul Pogba (1.91m) or some of the taller blokes mentioned above.

PS - jas88 sorry for picking on you on the same thing in two threads. I think it's just best to separate height/size from athleticism. And not to discount footballers because they're too tall.

But, like you, I welcome a small and speedy Aussie superstar footballer taking apart Champions League opponents. That doesn't preclude the taller Aussie footballers doing the same.
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