WC 2022: Other groups match and prediction thread


WC 2022: Other groups match and prediction thread

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Decentric 2 - 12 Dec 2022 10:52 PM
LFC. - 12 Dec 2022 2:35 PM

Limited football  analysis in that article by the writer.

The journo only alluded to three key moments in each comp when England was knocked out of Russia 2018,  Euro Champs 2020 and Qatar in 2022. There was a reason  England have been  as consistent - not only just good playing cattle.

Some of these I've alluded to prior:

* Much stronger and more cohesive team unit.

* The off the ball movement when building up  from the back to the front, is  vastly superior to 10-12 years ago. Whoever the English ball carrier is at any given point in time, he tends to have better support from teammates creating optimum angled passing  lanes off the ball. The English ball carrier usually has more, and better options to pass to.

* England are rotating the midfield triangles like the good Continental teams - France, Netherlands, Spain, Belgium, Portugal - do in Ball Possession. They use a Defensive  Midfield Triangle at times, then change it to the Attacking Midfield Triangle, depending on the stage of the game. The World Cup footage calls it 1-2 as separate lines,  which is different to what  the KNVB  terms it and who coined it.
England did it seamlessly in Qatar. Credit to Southgate and Holland. Of  course one  can state the bigger clubs in the EPL tend to adopt  the angular formations conducive to passing football than the old crossing game.

*England even rotated the right side of the defensive line, with the midfield line, pretty seamlessly. Good coaching from Southgate.

* In WC Russia England were playing out from the back, and though the midfield third, but in the  attacking third they were overly reliant on aerial crosses. They've evolved even further since 2018. Now they have  deployed central attacking  interplay very effectively, on the deck. Instead of 2 effective points  of the attack like they used in Russia, they now have three.

*  Supposedly, Harry Maguire has struggled at Man U. This guy is one of the best CBs in world football. Southgate has him playing well for the English national  team. He is playing well at a higher level in the WC against the likes of current World Champs, France, than anything  Maguire  has faced  with Man U at club level. Given the high talent base Southgate may have, he has used them quite well.
France only just beat England, are current World Champs and could even win in Qatar too. A  different  ref, giving them a pen they should have had, and England could be in the semis?



ofcourse they are better unit than pre Southgate, not hard to do being the NT was quite toxic prior due to opposing players large ego's getting in the way of the cause and weak management then and before.
They have been the could be NT for decades And they are right now again with Southgate despite working far better as a unit and improved unit play.
Ofcourse the play would be improved looked where all the players are in Club land in the modern game, most in top 6 clubs with todays brilliant coaching.
That article was not about stats/figures but of why are they floundering with so so much talent at hand, on paper they have a better team than the French - forget Kane missing the pen their midfield and attack is as good and better generally across the park.
Southgate, played too safe starting up with Hendo.
Rice should have pushed higher in the French half, Foden could have been used more, brough inside more for he is a damn top attacking player as mentioned.
They had more possesion
More shots
More corners
Over 100 more pass's
So they matched and bettered a French team that many believe will be through to the final let alone win it.

In the end the French were lucky to get away with it.
Greizman is 20/30% down what he used to be but with age like Messi has changed his game to suit not being as quick as they used to be and Deschamps figured that out how best to use him, playing a 10 distributer role, again as mentioned in the article why not have brouigh Foden doing similar for they are right and would have been a smart move by Southgate but takes him off and puts on a miss firing Sterling, a out of sorts Grealish and a which Rashford is turning up today.

As we know you don't watch EPL - Maguire has been a embarrasment many times at United, infact a stage not even in the starting line up, some errors leading to that was League 3 proportions and his postioning much the same woeful.
As keeper66 mentioned in the EPL he faces attacking players to Mbappe standards weekly, looked at goose many times.
He had somewhat recovered some kind of form pre WC but mainly because United are lacking with quality reserves.
United defense is 20GA @ 14games played, the top 3, 2 with 11 the other @ 14.
He is no where near one of the best CB's in the world, an overpaid one more than anything else good luck to him But he does seem to manage doing a better job at the NT level.

Southgates results are similar to Woy, back to Erickson, get deeper into tournaments, yes he made it to the Euro final but came up short at home/Wembley of all places.
They sure didn't have the richs or lets say the co hesion Southgate has had the last few years but its looking a little similar to Martinez's Belguim GG in reflection, so so much promise and its 6yrs under Southgate.

Richarlison faded actually as Brazil went deeper in Cup, when they needed him the most in the Croatia game to press like mad he couldn't, I believe was suffering from a minor quad or something injury but he wasn't the same player seen through the Grp stage.
Tite blundered as well having one of the most balanced Brazilian teams in a long time and has stepped down, I think its time the 3Lions got a more aggressive Coach that will unleash his Cubs imo.




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Edited
3 Years Ago by LFC.
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Decentric 2 - 12 Dec 2022 10:52 PM
LFC. - 12 Dec 2022 2:35 PM
*  Supposedly, Harry Maguire has struggled at Man U. This guy is one of the best CBs in world football. Southgate has him playing well for the English national  team. He is playing well at a higher level in the WC against the likes of current World Champs, France, than anything  Maguire  has faced  with Man U at club level. Given the high talent base Southgate may have, he has used them quite well.
France only just beat England, are current World Champs and could even win in Qatar too. A  different  ref, giving them a pen they should have had, and England could be in the semis?



Lol Maguire is not one of the best CBs in the world. He is consistently very shaky defensively. The second France goal happened because he inexplicably decided to leave Giroud open in the box to go cover another player. 

It's kind of frustrating that you make these statements as though they're facts while openly admitting that you don't actually watch any football outside of 3 minute highlights of WC games. It's also kind of interesting. Why don't you like watching football? You certainly like talking about it. 

Southgate is far too conservative and has never got the best out of this group of superstars. Your analysis of him is ridiculously fawning and overrates him massively.
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Keeper66 - 13 Dec 2022 12:34 AM
Decentric 2 - 13 Dec 2022 12:03 AM

Casuaristic???

Yeah I like to think I have a fairly broad vocabulary but had to google this one up myself.

About 5 search results down came this link.  https://forum.insidesport.com.au/2675178/RE-We-used-to-have-20-Arzanis-Comments?PageIndex=4#bm2676014

Nothing has changed in 4 years.


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Munrubenmuz - 13 Dec 2022 6:25 PM
Keeper66 - 13 Dec 2022 12:34 AM

Yeah I like to think I have a fairly broad vocabulary but had to google this one up myself.

About 5 search results down came this link.  https://forum.insidesport.com.au/2675178/RE-We-used-to-have-20-Arzanis-Comments?PageIndex=4#bm2676014

Nothing has changed in 4 years.

Ah, so it’s a word that only exists in Decentric’s own personal dictionary.

What does casuaristic mean, Decentric?
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Just realised. Australia under Arnold with a strike force of Goodwin, Duke and Leckie played three top 10 sides and scored 3 goals from open play (one each game).
England under Southgate with a strike force of Foden/Rashford, Kane and Saka couldn’t score a goal from open play against France or USA.
I think my earlier post about Southgate getting acceptable results from the available players was hasty in the extreme. He actually did way worse than Arnie. It is actually doubtful that England would have got out of the group stages if they had to play France and Denmark.
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Come on Croatia but I have feeling for Messi 

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You reckon keeper impeded Alvarez ? 

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Poor defence or brilliant play by Alvarez?
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LFC. - 14 Dec 2022 6:35 AM
You reckon keeper impeded Alvarez ? 

I'd have to check the laws. I feel he's gotten a shot away fairly and the keeper is only watching the ball and then they just bump into each other. Fairly harsh I find.

Well stuff that. 2:0. Croatia will have to attack now. 
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Yer cheers j, I thought that pen was soft but damn so was no2 but what luck damn it 

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Far out what a save deflection 

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Argentina killing them. I'd be amazed if Croatia come back from this. 
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Flytox - 14 Dec 2022 6:39 AM
Poor defence or brilliant play by Alvarez?

Juranovic just jogs backwards allowing the chance. Timing a move would see Alvarez have to change course and slow or pass allowing the sprinters to get back. 
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Flytox - 14 Dec 2022 6:39 AM
Poor defence or brilliant play by Alvarez?

Both. 
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Derider - 14 Dec 2022 6:49 AM
Flytox - 14 Dec 2022 6:39 AM

Both. 

Luck of the bounce too
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Maestro Messi so far today.  His ability to draw the defenders to him and then either role past them or lay off a pass is brilliant.
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Bozza trying to talk away the penalty.  
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I think I said it earlier in the tournament but I feel the commentary loses something when it doesn’t have a knowledgeable co-commentator.
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Flytox - 14 Dec 2022 7:02 AM
Bozza trying to talk away the penalty.  

UK pundits arguing a lot and split. 
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Messi finish’s it off :( 

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LFC. - 14 Dec 2022 7:30 AM
Messi finish’s it off :( 

You have to admire Messi's close skills that got him in to space to lay off the perfect pass.
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Flytox - 14 Dec 2022 7:31 AM
LFC. - 14 Dec 2022 7:30 AM

You have to admire Messi's close skills that got him in to space to lay off the perfect pass.

Yes mate can’t deny his skill at the same time a huge defender ghosting him such good use of the body - he is the goat for me tbh.

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Was that croatias first shot on target?
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I think this is the most complete game the argies have played might I say.
Croatia just can’t break their backline enough at all - hardly a shot at goal as well.

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I don’t mind Messi going through, but it’s a shame Croatia couldn’t muster more fight than this. It’s been so comfortable for Argentina. Australia gave them a far harder game.

This is realistically Croatia’s absolute limit. They’re really not that great. They’ve offered practically nothing going forward in the entire tournament and, apart from penalties, have only beaten Canada. 
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Unless the world caves in for Argentina, if France goes through too we can say that we were only beaten by the two finalists.  ;)
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Derider - 14 Dec 2022 7:37 AM
I don’t mind Messi going through, but it’s a shame Croatia couldn’t muster more fight than this. It’s been so comfortable for Argentina. Australia gave them a far harder game.

This is realistically Croatia’s absolute limit. They’re really not that great. They’ve offered practically nothing going forward in the entire tournament and, apart from penalties, have only beaten Canada. 

Yes sad to say for they deserve more but you’re right.
Modric would be even more legendary if they had a couple up front who can score more often for they lack the finishing edge.
Unfortunately they are not in the same mind and effort like the Brazil game.
mind you like I said argies have played a complete game.
kudos to them 

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Flytox - 14 Dec 2022 7:42 AM
Unless the world caves in for Argentina, if France goes through too we can say that we were only beaten by the two finalists.  ;)

Then watch it end goalless while we scored against both :p
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Next game is win win. If france win the oz was only defeated by the finalists. If morocco win, we finally have a finalist outside of south america and europe
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Nice not having to hear sweet Caroline post game for the millionth time. 
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