When one looks at all the videos in the big WCQing play offs  in 1993, 1997, 2001 and 2005, the versatility of Tony Vidmar was incredible.

He played with aplomb anywhere across the back four.

It is such a shame he could not play at the 2006 WC   because he was suffering from a  heart ailment, after being involved in four successive Socceroo WCQ campaigns over the 12-13 years.

Just having a look at the replay of Syria playing the Socceroos in Syria, Ange's  3-6-1 shape  he preferred at the time stifled Australia's efficacy when Syria had the ball - and -  Aus's fluency when they had possession of the  ball.

It is bizarre that he tried such an unfamiliar system at Socceroo level. International coaches only have a limited time with international teams. Ange had the Socceroos playing  much better at the Asian Cup 2015 and earlier in the 2018  WCQ campaign  using 4-3-3 with  the defensive and attacking midfield  triangles.

I can understand Ange  experimenting at club level with the 3-6-1 where he has a lot more time on the training track. Has Ange deployed this bizarre manifestation of 3-6-1 in the J League or with Celtic?

Again looking at the Syria Aus game retrospectively, played in Syria, which was one of the last Socceroo match games played before the 2018 WC, even though not played that long ago, there was some interesting retrospective phenomena.

That team was let  down incredibly by the combination of Kruse, Juric and Leckie' ability  to score goals.  Their profligacy was simply awful around the penalty box. Yet they did so many other things really well.

Recently, Kuol and Mabil, have struggled to run  effectively  off the ball when Aus is in possession. Harry Kewell  said he would love to have some time on the training track coaching them to  open passing lanes that the likes of Leckie, Kruse and Boyle do. Kewell also admitted his own offensive running left a lot to be desired for most of his career.  It wasn't until age 30 under Frank Rijkaard's  tutelage at Galatasaray, that he learnt how to run effectively off the ball.

Juric, also profligate around goal, did a lot of wonderful bullocking work by roughing up opposition CBs and throwing his weight around. He held the  ball up quite well too. He caused invaluable turnovers in the attacking third, which enabled Aus to geger press.

The stand out for me in Ange's 3-4-2-1 formation, with Leckie and Kruse tucking in more than traditional wingers in a 3-4-3 flat midfield,  was using both Mooy and Milligan  as twin controlling midfielders.

No disrespect to Irvine, who lifted for the Qatar WC, but Milligan more of an A L product, playing possession football with Victory, was more effective as a Socceroos DM than Irvine. The latter has  played  more  of an archetypal English lower league box to box midfielder role.

Milligan, as well as Mooy, controlled the tempo of the game. Aus had two  controlling midfielders,  rather than than one in recent times. Mooy has fulfilled that role. I suspect that Ange wanted to play these two, instead of inserting a number Ten or AM.

Josh Risdon was an effective RB too. This is despite, like Ryan Grant, both  have a perceived lack of pace over the turf to match fast international  wingers.

In recent times Leckie (on the biggest stage) scored a really difficult goal - after years of missing  about 40 easier goals he should have scored for the Socceroos! Goodwin and Duke have also converted what Kruse and Juric couldn't. 

When one looks at the Syrian play off for Asian 5th place, held in Syria, even more interesting  phenomena occurs.

I hope Robbie Kruse's relative is reading this, who used to post on this forum. Kruse's off the ball running when Aus had the ball, was quite brilliant! He frequently made fast angled darts that pulled Syrian defenders out of position, and received well often whilst running forwards at  high speed.

For once, Kruse scored a classic opportunists'  goal, deflecting a Leckie shot!

Syria ceded space to Australia so much  more than any team Aus just played in Qatar. It enabled Milligan and Mooy to keep playing long, angled passes to wide players, or killer passes that split lines to more advanced players.

Another significant difference between Arnie 2022,  and Ange's 2017/18 Socceroo team was that Ange's team was nowhere near as well drilled in Ball Possession Opposition. Individually many  Socceroos caused turnovers  from closing down space against Syrian players.

As a collective team unit though, Aus didn't hold the Arnie style compact  4-4-2 flat midfield in Ball Possession Opposition, or get into  this cohesive shape as quickly in Defensive Transitions with Ange's Socceroo team against Syria in 2017/18. This aspect of play enabled the 2022 Socceroos to go further than Bert's Socceroo team in 2018. Plus the 2022 Socceroo manifestation converted scoring chances in Qatar.

Syria was quite a physical,  dirty team.  The Iranian ref, now  refereeing in the A L, let a lot go, particularly some awful tackles from behind by Syrian players that should have resulted in yellow cards. When Socceroos retaliated, he handed out cards quickly!

About 5-6 Socceroos on the pitch also played in Qatar.

Sainsbury, Risdon, Juric, Kruse, Rogic ( who came on as a sub), Milligan (retired) didn't play in Qatar. All these players were significant in this era, in a  positive way. For different reasons, they were not in Qatar.  

Watching  the entire  Syrian game, in possession Australia's formation at times manifested a classic flat midfield 3-4-3 in the attacking third of the pitch, but Kruse and Leckie tucked in a lot from the wings, and it appeared as a weird 3-6-1.

It was interesting to look at one of the early Socceroo games against Kuwait, in extreme heat  at night, early on in the Qatar  2022 WCQ campaign.

Leckie  headed a rare goal within a few minutes, where he out jumped a couple of Kuwaiti defenders from a perfect Boyle lobbed cross.

Two  starting players in the Kuwait fixture, Holland and McGowan, disappeared from Arnie's plans as the Qatar WC campaign progressed.

 Even though Kuwait was  modest opposition, despite playing at home in those  stifling conditions, Australia was a much more cohesive team just before and in  Qatar WC.  Kuwait still had a few nice ball players to worry Aus though.

When one looks at this older videos of the 2022 WCQ campaign, did Arnie ever select Smith as a LB?

Or has Smith become a player axed completely in the Arnie tenure? He is another who played some EPL games, but  has always been more of a football athlete than a footballer.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/brad-smith/nationalmannschaft/spieler/175745

Full games in round 2 vs Taiwan and the challenging 1:0 over Jordan.

Also started in the Vietnam away game in fact. Behich replaced him in those tough conditions after 56min. Elder was in the squad too.

Thanks for that, Johnszasz.

Apparently, Elder, according to Bunch Of Hacks' ELO rankings he has accessed, is our highest, or almost highest ranked LB. I can't remember seeing him play for the Socceroos though - even as a sub.

I'd urge all to have took at the old videos.

I've just updated my computer, so I hope to be able to view a lot of the Pim and late Guus eras.

To date the better players from the GG before 2005, have often been a surprise.

Kewell before 2005 was even better than I thought he was.

Bresciano is probably next best  before 2005. 

From looking at games as far back as WCQs against Argentina in 1993, Iran in 1997, and a number of games in between the Guus era, some lesser lights impressed me - as well as Kewell and Bresc. 

Found this game to be an interesting comparison to  Aus Argentina a few days ago.

The only two remaining players are Leckie and Ryan.

In the China quarter the starting line up, with Milligan rested and Spira suspended, was:

.....................................Ryan

Franjic.........Sains.............Wilkinson.......Davidson

...................................Jedi
...............Luongo....................Bresciano

Leckie......................Cahil.................Kruse.

4-3-3 attacking midfield triangle with the ball. Ange was coach.


China was playing a counterattacking game, using a  half press, defending deep in Ball Possession Opposition. They only really Squeezed  in their defensive half.

*I was interested to observe why Cahill,  seems to get so many more scoring chances per game than the likes of Maclaren, of similar height.

Cahill had a huge spring.  1 v1 - if an aerial was crossed in his general direction and he was one on one with a defender, who could have been much taller, he could outjump them from a standing position. He would also use shoulder nudges and stand on defenders' feet, to find space.

Despite being a good finisher, Maclaren struggles to have the 5-6 scoring attempts per game that Cahill averaged.

* I don't know if it was a particularly bad game for Jedi, but he struggled on the ball compared to the current likes of Mooy, O'Neill and Baccus, do in the same position. The midfield triangle of Jedi, Luongo and Bresc, struggled to circulate the ball against an inferior 2015 China, compared to the way Baccus, O'Neill and McGree did  against the Argentinian world champs last week in China.

With Jedi in the sole screening position, Aus was exposed on the counter. Jedi also made a few clumsy challenges too.

Bresc was aged 34 or 35. When he  first came  on the scene in the Aussie team he was the outstanding ball handler in midfield in possession boasting slick technique, silky  first  touch  and handling speed. It wasn't as  apparent in  in this game. Players' technique is supposed to keep improving until they retire. 

* This was Sains at his peak. It was one of the few periods in his career where he played lot of games in club football. He was never as good as this again in his Socceroo career. In this era, he was as good a CB as we have ever had. Gee, he was good both in ball winning and ball playing. His peak didn't last long.

* Leckie's technique on the ball  has improved quite a lot since this game in early 2015. He is a better player now than then.

* Kruse may have been at his peak too. Still neither Leckie or Kruse were potent around goal. I'm surmising most goals  came from Cahill in this era of the Socceroos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz9VOddNzrk

dedicated to luongo

thanks for the memories!

Thanks for posting grazor... Still brings a smile, that little 2 touch shuffle and then whack from Mass.... golazzo.... 

Still stand behind Tomi Juric in this match though, that winner was ALL HIM... 

Juric did superbly to create the assist.

I've viewed some more recent Socceroo videos.

The game against Palestine was just awful from us. I've finally seen the replay and for the first time, and the game from the 60th min when I was cut off live. 

Amazingly,  I think we created more chances against England, than Palestine. After watching us against England, where our Squeezing of them in Ball Possession Opposition, was quite intensive at times, our Squeezing against Palestine in Kuwait ( the heat is okay at this  time of the year too) was languid for most  of the game.

Goodwin, Boyle, Metcalfe and Irvine, all had shockers by their own usual high standards.  Goodwin made a number of uncharacteristic mistakes and was furious with himself at times. Irvine simply failed  to get involved  in the game much.  Australia just wasn't up for this game mentally. Conversely, Palestine seemed highly motivated.

I can barely find any positives apart from Ryan's amazing save to deny what seemed like a certain goal. Also, Goodwin's corners and set pieces finding Souttar's head were a constant goal threat.

Even if Palestine sat off in a Half Press most of the time, without applying intensive Squeezing, we really struggled to create chances from open play.  All the players I've alluded to having had poor games, had better watch out if it continues. I've seen some excellent young players in these positions in the A League recently. 

It was interesting to view the replay of the friendly versus England.

Remember that the English team, even if many of the starting eleven they weren't regular England first teamers, are the absolute stars of the best 90 odd English national players who play weekly EPL football.

No outfield Socceroos are even considered good enough to play in even the lower ranked clubs of the EPL. Yet England struggled to beat Aus 1-0.

Why? 

England had plenty of possession until the last 15 mins, when Aus ran over the top of them.  Scoring chances may have even favoured Aus. When England lost the ball in Aus' defensive half, they often had a number of players committed forwards. This left more space to exploit from, quick Aus accelerated attacks at the start of the Aus Attacking Transition. The Socceroos executed the accelerated attacks well. 

The English players were decidedly superior in handling speed, first touch, passing accuracy. England is now a high achieving international powerhouse, after underachieving for years.

3rd or 4th in Russia 2018 WC, finalist in the 2020 Euro Champs, and last 8 in the 2022 Qatar WC, is consistent.

Some say  England should  do well with the cattle  they have, but each of  the other big five in UEFA, plus Brazil and Argentina, have production lines of similar quality cattle.  Plus the smaller nations that consistently  punch above their weight - Croatia, Netherlands, Portugal and Switzerland.

The English wingers Grealish, Rashford, was it Bowen the number 11 ?, had the ability to tease our FBs just out of tackling range, then accelerate really fast past them with phenomenal changes of pace and very fast ball carrying.

They were able to get to the bi line and cross into the pen box,  which enabled the English trailing forwards and midfielders to have effective body shape  facing the goal to shoot. The Socceroos' last line defending was pretty good in this game though, even defending when facing their own goal.

England also had the ability to slow down the tempo and keep the ball relatively easily. Then again, using their skilful, pacy wingers, England changed to a really fast tempo down the flanks at other times.

I thought Boyle played his best game for a long time.

Ditto Souttar. The media and Arnie give him a lot of attention (I'm surmising Arnie for leadership reasons), but apart from Souttar's aerial prowess, I prefer Rowles as a CB. Against England  Souttar excelled. Amazing he can't get game time at club level, playing against  decidedly inferior players to the English national team.

Once again, the Socceroos demonstrated as a team unit, they are decidedly superior to the individuals that comprise the team. Aus held its defensive shape despite some pretty slick English attacking interplay.

I was quite surprised with Metcalfe's aerial prowess in this game.  At times there were   7 decent Aus headers of the ball on the pitch.

Rowles worked as a defensive left back too. Whilst the very tall Souttar and Burgess comprised the CBs, Rowles tucked in to make a three person defensive line,  when the team attacked on the right with Strain going forwards to provide the overlapping RB.

Rowles won some crunching, well-timed tackles further up the pitch on the left side, that  I don't think Behich could do. It unsettled and surprised England.

Bos provided penetration when he came  on too.

I think palestine could be unique because our players clearly felt for the palestinian team

I think there is a phenomenon where war torn countries tend to have a boost in performances. I remember syrias run to world cup qualification, nearly knocking ange's roos out, also Iraq's incredible asian cup win in 2007

Astonishing he quit international football at this point in time. 

Maybe it was a factor that the Socceroos felt empathy for Palestine? I hadn't considered it.

Yeah the comments about the war in the lead up had me worried how focused the roos would be. 

Looking at the replay of first Ecuador game the Socceroos played in March 2022, Irvine excelled  as Attacking Midfield. He may have been at his peak then. Looking at  this Ecuador game I'm wondering if the Defensive Midfield triangle in the defensive half of  : 

Baccus..........................O'Neill

...................Irvine


is the best midfield for Aus?

Live when I watched I thought O'Neill did more rough stuff, like Jedi, Grella, Milligan, Mooy,  used to do, but at the 56 min mark of the replay he hasn't done as much as I'd like to see.

Baccus has really improved. He is a bit hotheaded getting some needless yellow cards, but he is really pushing for first selected as a DM. Baccus breaks up a lot of attacks, constantly pressuring opponents on the ball into making mistakes, creating turnovers. He covers a lot of territory.

When the team attacks in the front half  Baccus tends to go forwards creating an Attacking Midfield triangle in a 4-3--3, whilst O'Neill sits.

...................O'Neill
Baccus
..............................Irvine

The technical term is rotating the triangle.

Anyone denigrating Arnie's coaching, tactically he is very good. He also has very well educated players to work with.

In the game against Ecuador, Goodwin's game sense is incredible. He isn't a traditional winger like Mabil or Boyle, who use changes  pace and dribbling to try and beat defenders, creating an overload, but a bit like a midfield general out wide.

Goodwin just seems to play the best option available so often, passing to the best  Socceroo in the best position. He also passes well over range to switch the field of play.  Goodwin is far more judicious about when he dribbles. Like Cahill, he is good at losing markers. Socceroos must love playing with him.

Against Ecuador, Goodwin tracks back well, and is a decent ball winner when the opposition has the  ball.

Yet against Palestine, Goodwin was shocking by his own standards. His worst game ever since just  before the World Cup.

After having a good look at the two games against Ecuador in March, it is really difficult to  select a first eleven, given what has transpired over the last 9 months.

I'm adamant if O'Neill continues game time with his big club in Belgium, he should be in our starting eleven as the 6, along with Baccus near him, and Irvine as the number 10.

  Irvine has a good engine and game sense, but can't pay the rapidfire passing and moving game to keep possession in tight spaces. His handling speed isn't quick enough for this role. Irvine is pretty dangerous around goals in the pen box. We need him in  this area of the pitch more. He makes those late runs defenders don't pick up.

O'Neill reminds me of Vinnie Grella, devoid of the histrionics with refs and ceding fouls in dangerous positions around our goal. He probably doesn't close down space as effectively as Grella - yet, but later in the first game against Ecuador and when he came on in the second game, he roughed them up, winning a lot of hard balls and outmuscling them - like Milligan, Jedi and Grella did. O'Neill looks very composed the ball, and makes eye of the passes from tight spaces, plus  has good vision and range of passing.

We need more players like this if we are going to play through the powerhouses, as opposed to our current strategy of accelerated attacks against the big teams.

I'm not sure of O'Neill's stamina, ability to turn quickly and his pace over the turf, but he can play the Mooy role of controlling midfield general.

as a warm up for the big match tonight added 2 games from the 2001 Australian confederations cup

Australia v Japan
Australia v France

I notice FIFA are releasing the occasional full match replay from years gone by on youtube. Hopefully they open up the archives from all the WCs.

yeah the whole pim era of wcqs are pretty much gone

Thanks a bunch, Grazor.

Not sure if they will do for qualifiers - my assumption is that the continental confederations own the rights to these. But FIFA + is free, and as far as I understand has full match replays for every Women's World Cup finals match, and every Men's World Cup finals match back to 1970.

They also have select leagues shown live (and full replays and highlights) such as the NZ league now too. I just learnt they're streaming select matches from Serie C in Italy, which means I can finally watch Catania again

The Aus France game was the MCG  fixture in 2001. I was hoping to see the Confed Cup fixture. France were very much playing the modern game even then. They underperformed in the 2002 WC.

It is a very good side. Zidane just makes everything look so easy.

Kewell was probably close to his peak  too. 

In the Japan game, they were were a shadow then of the team they have now.

Ah crap you are right thought it was the confed cup match