I watched a reply of the 2006 WC game Australia v Japan. the other day. I had not seen the full game ,only highlights,since the day it was played.Hiddink let this team play much like previous Socceroo teams-with a more organised defence to be sure but still with a lot of forward movement and physicality. He must have realised that the players were brought up on this aggressive style,despite many playing OS and let them play to their strengths.Apart from the great result it was a really good game to watch.

Also at the end of the game we had on the field Viduka,Kewell who both started and the three attacking subs Cahill,Kennedy and Aloisi.What a strike force and wouldn't we love to have similar players now.

we ended games with a 3-4-3 with 2 wide mids in the 4 being genuine striking wingers and 2 of the players in the back 3 being wing backs

most attacking format I've seen and relied heavily on the fitness of brett emerton who would sprint up and down the field to present the team being exposed at the back. Given we only played 3-4-3 for 15 minutes and we had exceptionally fit players we could get away with it

tactically masterful

As I watch the older Socceroos games, the progression of modern tactics and structure means few players would  be effective  for the current Socceroos - as they played then. Still there  is a significant  number who would be useful acquisitions even the way they played in their eras.

I've had trouble accessing this game against Japan in Germany 2006, but  having viewed a lot of earlier games from Uruguay WCQ 2005  and prior back to 1993, the  players who would be useful acquisitions to the current Socceroos have surprised me.

 Now the whole team in 2022, probably from 2006 onwards, is expected to defend from the front attacking line - and as a team unit.

Watching these earlier games, the attacking line basically watched teams play through them from the back.  Dukes, Chipper (playing number 10 against Ireland ), Cahill and Aloisi didn't close down space anywhere near intensively  enough for the current Socceroos in the attacking half of the pitch.

* Although, Cahill and Aloisi's finishing as central strikers would be useful  to the current Socceroos manifestation. Watching  the Ireland game in 2003, Dukes hadn't scored for 6 years for  the Socceroos since the 1997 Confererations' Cup. 

Throughout Cahill's career he was renowned as 'going missing'  when he played as an attacking midfielder for large periods in a game. His current counterparts, when Timmy played as an attacking midfielder for the Socceroos, like Hrustic and Rogic, get through a lot more work in Ball Possession, and, in Ball Possession Opposition.

* Kewell  from 2005 back to 1997 was an incredible player - the best we've had.  To have him as Left Wing the Harry played in this 8 year spell would be a massive asset for the current Socceroos. He only had a scoring rate for the Socceroos of about 0.26 per game, which was similar for his Liverpool and Leeds tenures. I'm not sure if he played as a central striker for Galatasaray? In the period Harry played in Turkey he scored much closer to the impressive average of 0.50 goals per game. In  the Galatasary era, he probably would  have been a  welcome acquisition as a central striker for the current Socceroos.

* Kennedy would  be a very useful acquisition as a target striker for the currrent Socceroos against Asian teams. I think his  scoring rate per game for the Socceroos was impressive at 0.46 goals per game. Big Josh  probably  didn't defend as effectively from the front as Duke, Brosque, Leckie, Ikon, Kruse and Holman though, causing those handy turnovers. Kennedy also played in later eras of much more structured and superior  tactically coached Socceroo defences. Definitely an asset to the current team with his aerial  prowess as the central target striker.

* Other impressive performers from 2003 onwards were Bresciano and Grella.  Add Culina too in 2005. Their rapid-fire passing and moving in tight spaces, enabled Australia to build up more effectively  from the back to the front. These guys  disturbed opposition   build ups frequently - Grella often with aggressive tackling ( liable to give away too many fouls in dangerous areas though), whilst   Bresc, Culina and later Valeri, broke up those attacks by effective reading of the game by executing timely intercepts.  Grella also did this. Wilkshire also played the DM role for a while as a hard tackling  midfielder. A further added  duty from 2005 onwards was  prioritising the contemporary  DMs to screen the defence by charging down second balls and transitional balls.

Then later  on probably the best  best ball winning central DM line we've probably  had was Milligan and Jedi - both  hardman ball winners like Grella and Wilkshire, but much more disciplined. They tackled as a last resort, not wanting to break up the defensive, cohesive team shape,  trying to keep it compact as a priority  and often succeeding. That discipline resulted in less fouls conceded near our goal.
In fact I'm really starting to appreciate how disciplined Jedi was when the other team had the ball. Pim said he was one of the cleverest players he ever coached in terms of game sense - if not the smartest player he ever coached. Pim said he only ever had to give Jedi a coaching suggestion once - and he acquired it immediately. His distribution  was mediocre, but he left that job to Valeri, Milligan, McKay and probably Luongo. His defensive  positioning was phenomenal for sustained periods when the other team had the ball.

*Looking at Lucas Neill in 2003, he was essentially a rugged ball winning Right Back. He was also proficient at jockeying, delaying and showing too. The 2003 manifestation of Neill was more mobile than his latter years.Then after 2006 WC his distribution improved   immeasurably as a CB, enabling Australia to play out more. His distribution kept improving right up until Ange axed him.
At that stage of his career  Neill's ball winning qualities and mobility had declined though.  The Neill version of 2007-2010 probably established the blueprint for the ball playing  Aussie CBs - manifesting in Spira, Sains ( both peaking around 2015), and recently Kye Rowles. Neill 2007-10 would be a handy acquisition for us now.

* Even going back as far as 2003. both Aurelio Vidmar and Graham Arnold, were potent around goals. I think both were regularly scoring in Belgium and/or Holland. Plus Arnie did a lot of great defensive work when the other team had the ball - which is an integral role of the contemporary central striker. When we played a mediocre  Argentina (by their own standards) in 1993, the way this duo were then, they would  both be useful acquisitions as central strikers for the current Socceroos.

*A  further useful acquisition to the 2022 Socceroos would be Tony Vidmar - who was a solid Socceroo defender  from 1993 -2005. This is a long period to maintain form.  He could play in any position across the back four - Right Back, Centre Back and Left Back - amazing versatility. He would need to improve his distribution a bit though.
Also, Tony V was excellent at jockeying, delaying and showing - more  like  a player in the current era. Most of his defensive  teammates - Zelic, Okon, Foxe, Popovic, Murphy, Tobin, Horvat, Ivanovic - were too hasty to commit and tackle for the  modern game. The contemporary Socceroos defenders, usually wait for a second and third defender  positioned in support, before they commit to a challenge .
.

As I keep watching the Ireland game in 2003, the off the ball  movement of players has changed a lot.

Quite often Neill as RB and Emerton as RW remained static as Socceroo CBs or DMs were looking for players to pass to in more advanced positions. Now players would be moving towards them in a short burst, or checking (running in one way to dupe an  opponent  marking them, and changing direction to create space at a diagonal angle to the ball carrier ).

Ditto Okon, who apart from when  he was  in possession of the ball in generous time and space, when he was a real threat to Ireland with his vision and passing range, his off the ball movement in screening for BPO and DT duties, and supporting the ball carrier in Ball Possession and Attacking Transition  duties, was problematic. He seemed blissfully unaware that in build ups he needed to create space and open viable passing lanes as part of a team unit. In BPO he often seemed to be behind the play in speed of thought (lacking anticipation) and speed over the turf.

Another phenomenon, was Emo cutting in quite a lot from RW into traffic in the attacking third . More of the current  Socceroo wingers  like Leckie, in the past Kruse, Ikon, currently Boyle and Mabil, tend to  ball carry down the line in preference, and only cut in when there are gaps and more central space is available.

I also can't get over how little work the Socceroo attacking line, and attacking midfield line, did in defensive duties closing down space in organised team Pressing and Squeezing against  Ireland in 2003  in the Defensive Transitions and Ball Possession Opposition. 

Exactly.

Everything else you refer to is purely team tactics and style.

Those players with their first touch, vision, passing range etc etc would instant displace most of today's squad if they trained for even 2 weeks in today's team tactics.

You can't compare team tactics from 20 years ago and infer anything about how the players themselves would go in todays game.

If they played today they would train today too.

Well of course but go easy on him he's only just had this epiphany recently. He'll get there eventually.

Wrong there. 

Not a chance would they replace current members based on first touch, vision, passing range - given all the other attributes needed off the ball.

I'm just noting that Paul Okon's reading of the game against Ireland and Iran, was too slow.  Against Ireland and France 2001, Okon's passing range was very good  - when he had sufficient time and space on the ball. His vision was good - again when he had sufficient time and space on the ball.

The problem was that Okon wasn't thinking quickly enough BEFORE he received the ball. In 2003 against Ireland, it was  Bresc showing him up, where he was thinking ahead of the game - leading to anticipating tackles to be made, not being late on them and not committing too  early.  Bresc also  displayed fast handing speed in tight spaces,  because of his game sense and speed of thought. 

No Socceroo Keeper, Centre Back (except Ivanovic), Defensive Midfielder, prior to 2003, would be have anything like the diversity of skill set to success in the 2022 modern game.

Full backs, Wingers and Strikers are a different story. Their skill set hasn't changed as much. A lot of past Socceroos, with smaller reputations, would be an asset to the current team: -



Wingers: Slater circa 1993, Kewell 1997-2005 - possibly Adrian Alston from 1974 , but  I'd have to see footage.

Full Backs: - Tony Vidmar 1993 form, because of his versatility to play anywhere across the back four, but he would  have to improve his distribution.

Strikers: Cahill, Arnold and Aurelio Vidmar both 1993 form, Josh Kennedy.

Centre Back: Neill 2005-2010 form, Moore and Ogger as long as they had a ball playing CB next to them, Milan Ivanovic based on 1993 form had the potential to play as a modern CB like Sains and Spira 2015 form, and Kye Rowles current.


Based on what I've seen for the Socceroos big names Bosnich, Schwarzer, Viduka, Zelic and Okon, even at their peaks would have little hope being selected for the current Socceroos. Or they would need special players selected who play very near to  them on the pitch  to counter their weaknesses. The evidence is there in the videos in this thread.

 Viduka as a club player for Leeds was much better as a club player when I watched them reach a  UEFA Champ League semi-final,  rarely performed for the Socceroos. 11 goals from  43 games tells the story.

Watch Arnie play against Argentina in the home WCQ in 1993. I've never seen  Viduka play as well as that - apart from possibly one of his last games in the Asian Cup 2007, against  Thailand. I've never been able to access the replay though - yet.

Whereas Kewell walks into any Socceroo team of any era, first picked as Left Winger, based on his Socceroo 1997-2005 form as a winger.

Wiht first touch, the players that stand out prior to 2005, were Kewell, Bresciano and Dukes. Another aspect of first touch, is turning away as one receives the ball and protecting the ball from the opposition marker in tight space - not stopping it dead. When I watched the Socceroos train in 2008, the two best at stopping the ball dead from a first touch, were Josh Kennedy and David Carney.  





 

 

Just watching a replay of the 2001 away game, second leg, against Uruguay, Australia was quite competitive earlier in the game. I haven't seen it for 21 years.

It just made it so tough for us having  two massive games, usually against the Kiwis, to get out of Oceania.

Then an intercontinental WCQ two leg knock out  decider against an Asian, 4th on the table, or usually South American opponents, 5th on the table, every four years. Oceanian opposition, with due respect, just didn't sharpen the Socceroos up, or expose weaknesses enough.

The South Americans had played a tough qualifying campaign against the  highest quality opposition for many WCQ games too. They were  always a battle hardened, match fit unit.

I see you've had another epiphany.

You should well remember what you just wrote before banging on about '32 years of failure' in the future.

 It might have been tailored to a 'specific audience'. They waxed lyrical about the good old days and some called fans from 2005  'New Dawners' used as a derogatory term. 

It was used by the perpetrators as a put down.

As I'm looking at replays for the Uruguay WCQ knockout games games in 2001 and 2005,  having not viewed the MCG game yet in 2001, Uruguay  were a  spiteful, cynical, rough house football team in that era of 2001 -2005.

Whereas I think it upset classy Socceroo midfielders Okon and Skoko, and a  younger  Harry Kewell in 2001 in Montevideo, and put them off their games, I think the sum total of the Socceroos in 2005 thrived on the rough house approach of the Uruguayans. They delivered the very physical approach back to Uruguay with interest - apart from Bresc and Culina in 2005.

Also, in 2001 in Montevideo, Muscat appeared to be suckered/tricked into a foul, and undeserved yellow card, by the died, blonde haired, skilful Uruguayan left winger/forward with a crew cut. He scored the first goal for Uruguay, with excellent use of his body position against Shaun Murphy. Muscat conceded a foul in the 30th min, which tempered his approach from then onwards.

In all games Recoba was the outstanding technician for Uruguay, and for  both teams in 2001. Kewell matched his skill in 2005.

I'm trying  to think of that spiteful crew-cutted Uruguayan CB in both 2001 and 2005, alongside his equally physical CB mate in 2005, Lugano, and that  long haired, headband wearing Uruguayan DM nicknamed ''El Assassino' in Spain. There was also a really rugged Uruguayan Left Back, with close cropped hair, in both 2001 and 2005.

For experienced referees, like Muz, did they seem to let a lot go in  that era? Many fouls called in those games  I'm sure would have been carded in the late 2000s onwards. Would you agree?

Locally, there were a couple of overly physical NTC players, who were getting away with a lot when they played against the senior reserves of the NPL a few seasons back. I' d constantly  raise it with the state TD, but his response was that it was commonplace in previous eras. It  didn't seem to concern him at all.  

Maybe Uruguay have had to resort to almost anything to win against their two highly technically proficient  close neighbours, Argentina and Brazil, in order to be competitive ? I'm not sure that previous and successive Uruguayan teams have been so physical/rough house in style?

I think the Socceroos 2005 manifestation, when  Grella replaced Okon and Skoko as a rugged ball winning DM; an older  Kewell flattened Lugano a few times; Dukes roughed up that spiteful crew-cutted  Uruguayan CB, the captain in 2005, a number of times; Popa ( lucky not to be sent off) flattened Recoba with an elbow to the head ;  and with Grella hammering El Assassino  on   a number of occasions; plus Emo, Chipper, Vidmar, Neill, Cahill, all getting stuck in; set the tone for rough house football in Sydney. It appeared to be a response to an overly physical Uruguay.

There were so many fouls  in all games against Uruguay in 2001 and 2005. I'd surmise modern refs would have called a lot more. The games were constantly stopped because of fouls - and head clashes from heading duels.

Looking back at the Iran WCQs in 1997, they were  gentlemen in comparison,  compared to Uruguay in 2001 and 2005. Argentina  also played quite fairly in the 1993 WCQ elimination games, apart from one of their CBs. The skill of Redondo, Balbo, Batistuta and Maradona stood out  for Argentina in 1993 - not any team mandated, rough house football style.  

 

Uruguay played two games here before the 1974 WC as "friendlies".They were technically way above our boys who were only semi -pros at the time but they still resorted to rough house tactics and both games had a lot of spite.Ray Baartz had his career finished by a Uruguayan defender who him him in the neck with a rabbit chop well in away from the play and Baartz was hospitalised with a suspected stroke as the blow caused his carotid artery to spasm.He missed the 1974 WC finals and the chance to highlight his talents on the biggest stage.It appears physical play is in the Uruguayan football DNA-possibly to offset the brilliance of Brazil and Argentina as you mentioned.

I can't remember seeing Ray Baartz?  

His teammates tended to think  Baartz had  a lot of talent and could have  gone a long way. Shame his career ended after that spiteful blow.

At least the 2005  Socceroos  were prepared for the Uruguayan physicality.

Fair comment about the three  subs Aloisi, Cahill and Kennedy. All have very good strike rates for the Socceroos, although Cahill and Aloisi had a few games against Oceanian teams.

All had a strike rate of over 0.40 games scored per game played for the Socceroos. This is good at international level. To have those three on the bench, with Cahill and Kennedy in the embryonic stages of their international careers, was pretty amazing.

Just watching some footage of these older games, not Japan 2006, Aloisi was a real predator around goal. His anticipation, ability to slip his markers, penalty box game sense and reading of play was excellent.  

Unfortunately I haven't been able to access the 2006 Japan game on my old computer, but it might work on my new smart TVs.  

Hi do you get SBS on demand? If so go to it and go to the Sports section.You will find Classic World Cup matches and it is there-full ninety minutes.There are matches from different WCs involving other nations though they only go for sixty minutes.Good luck

Thanks.

Bump!

time to get in the mood!

I am getting excited, can't wait for the big game to start......come on our fellas.
My sleep will be sacrificed like watching all my EPL and other leagues.

Thanks a bunch, Booney!

Will chase down these games in Pim's era, although SBS On Demand is a bit clunky on rewinds and fast forwards.

I'm pleased to see it bumped, Grazor. I've watched a lot of old games with great interest.

I've often been disappointed with some older big name Socceroos before 2006, but have been surprisingly impressed with others with smaller reputations.

who is a small figure pre 2006 who is underrated?

would be great to see the pim era games!

Graham Arnold as a central striker in 1993.

Aurelio Vidmar as a central striker in 1993.

Tony Vidmar's longevity as a Left Back, Right Back and CB - very versatile! He was involved in 1993, 1997, 2001 and 2005 WCQ campaigns.

Robbie Slater as a Right Winger in 1993.

I've made a lot of noise about many with big names at club level, who've underperformed, so it is nice to see players who've surprised.

Harry Kewell in 1997 - 2003 is even better than I remember him.

It won't make some happy, but once Marco Bresciano, and shortly after Vince Grella, joined the Australian midfield, circa 1993, they were infinitely superior to any of their big name predecessors. They were more complete players.   

Not for me D2 - Bresch and Grella were brilliant for us and great pairing, Bresch fanboi here even though I felt the same Ned.
I recall one WC the adbreaks there was tune through a sponser singing Bresciano's name, I used to sing it like mad loling with my wife.
I'm trying to find it.


Slater was always on the flanks - ran and ran and had better skill than people give him credit for.
I watched him develop when at StG/SU and still admired his "ageing" ability when back at Nothern Spirit.
Played against him in a pre season game after he went to Manly lol......

T Vidmar was a very reliable player and gave his all, another who deserves more cred as does Laza, great wingback in a time it wasn't described as such, his cross's were very consistant, 1v1 not bad and work rate.
 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwie7Jmq8LH7AhX-xzgGHYRPAIkQtwJ6BAgDEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DnVmirj0oMFA&usg=AOvVaw2GNGBk-P50bQ7vuAVULyas
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwie7Jmq8LH7AhX-xzgGHYRPAIkQtwJ6BAgOEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dpsj4qrlv1S4&usg=AOvVaw26xFM3-mmSN5Z2JH5RhyLa

Lazza was terrific going forward, but his defending was mediocre for a Left Back. He nearly made my list!

Slater's crossing was really good too.

Congrats, LFC, you are one of our forum star  footballers! Two guys have played  with or against Tom Rogic in Canberra/NSW NPL club games. You playing against the Oceanian Player Of The Year, Bulldog Salter, is fantastic!

We also a guy who had  an  Italian name, his real name, who was a regular poster on the World Game. He  played for the Socceroos a few decades ago. I can't remember his name though?

Lots of players from the early nineties it sounds!

It really surprised me.

Some like Ned Zelic, was better in 1993 than 1997.  I think he has suffered a debilitating  injury, and was never the same player again. I don't want to bring it up again for discussion, but his ball winning skills and general play when the other team had the ball, was mediocre. Ditto Okon and Skoko. 

Bresc and Grella raised the bar immeasurably when the other team had the ball. The pressure they exerted meant a lot more turnovers and intercepts. Arnold was also very effective when they had the ball in 1993.

D2, re Laza, you can't compare the type of LB play to the modern times mind you.
Overall he was sound, what back doesn't get beat by a skilful 1v1 flanker an entire game, yes got beat and his recovery wasn't great by todays standards but he cut the mustard with the Hammers/BCity standards then and Roos.

Yer Thanks for the kudos but no, no star please.
I'll throw in one other great experience vsing a retiring Roo kicking about in the local leagues.
Per the Slater encounter we were O35/1's - alot of ex Rep/NSL/NPLDiv 1 type players are in these comps everywhere, standards are pretty good for park football and over the years some lesser known Roos who got maybe 1 or 2 appearances no more play these levels which is great to see.....
Couple of seasons one Club in our comp had this tall timber/solid frame up front !
Bloody Dave Mitchell, yes obviously had put on a few more kilos but not too bad but his skill was for all to see, his holding of the ball, using his frame protecting the ball, winning aerial battles with ease, I was in awe......

I was hearing from sources as word gets around a Association next to ours a certain Paul Okon was carving it up in their O35/1 comp back in 2008.
He obviously helped recruiting Paul will also be joined by fellow former Socceroos Kimon Taliadoros and Chris Kalantzis.
Further to the former Socceroo signings the O35 Div 1 team has signed some exceptional players for 2008 including:* Paul Andricopoulos (Striker and former NSL player)* Ghenadie Costuic (Defender and Former Moldovian U20 international)* Ennio Morson (Defender/Midfielder and former NSW Premier League Player)* Frank Mikuletic (Goalkeeper and former NSL player)
and to top it off they got Francis Awaratefe as well !.
Imagine how opposing Clubs in ready @ koff thought lol.....

does anyone have the videos of our four games before sbs lose them? Would be nice to have the peru game too.

I'll upload if they do

It would be fantastic if you could upload them, Grazor.