That's the thing buddy, clubs DONT in general come and go.... at least in most football societies.... Franchises failing and being kicked out of a closed league is not the same thing.

That's the thing buddy, clubs DONT in general come and go.... at least in most football societies.... Franchises failing and being kicked out of a closed league is not the same thing.

You make a valid point about football having decades to become big Muz but that certainly hasn't happened with OR without the "effnik bogeyman"
But we are talking about EFFNIK CLUBS here and why they ( as per the original poster, a Lowy apologist evidently)  have declined... Well, they were  small and amateurish to begin with and, due to the same old factors repeated ad nauseum here, never grew much beyond that... Lowy extracting his revenge by actively excluding the clubs who humiliated him  20 years earlier was certainly not designed to help them grow their fanbas was it..?

Great topic Johns.......even though we've had similar threads over the times its the good ol days for me.

May I say re Sydney surviving NSL Clubs here's what I see :
Olympic
APIA
Marconi
Sydney United
Wolves
NWS Spiritfc in L1 just gained promo back in top flight next season - formally Northern Spirit.
St George FA and City both in L2
Hakoah L2
Parra Power in L3
I have prob missed a couple more who have gone through 2/3 name changes but whatever.......


I find it very difficult to dot the i's cross the t's what was/had been the issues, I was a little tacker as well, a wog boomer's 1st gen born here and my blood lines had always been challenged during my youth years growing up here.
All I could tell the divide against our game was massive due to the anglo grip on sport ie alf and nrl and the media really ground it.
The mention of Rex Mossop re nrl shows etc much like down south made a mockery of our sissy game.
I don't blame the effnics one bit sticking together for the racism was massive plus without a well functioning admin ala ASF/Arthur George who I believe done as well as he could would have been up against it without much or any Gov support let alone the typical infighting amongst the Clubs looking after their small patch on top of a Lowy wanting to over throw all because it wasn't his way......
Sure anglo's and casuals didn't feel that comfortable going to the grounds and the behaviour was no diff how the RBB/Cove etc caused and the game gets chastised and punished.
Why is there that much influence against the game to this day.
Oh its the effnics is getting old, I feel its alot to do with the background culture here as well.
A take from a 1st gen born, Aussies like being passionate about their "winners" sport in general but no it has to be a conservative mild mannered attitude.
Having wog blood I'm a emotional type, I used to watch people at large events as a kid/teen on wondering people are afraid to sing their national anthem with passion like wogs do back there, oh the anglo is not allowed to show weakness, crying. It blows me away.
I cry when it means so much to me and of my country - this place is so fucked up to me.

Our Football has always been up against it here period, against each other, against mainstream, who whats to blame is pandora's box.
Handball>alf forced its called football, footy when I hear it makes me sic, its fucken handball and so we're called soccer like the US had to. So bloody wrong.

I also saw the huge diff of where you've grown up, not just by city and type of school etcetc.....
Private to Gov schools - huge diff in what their sport directive was at the time.
State vs State - I know it upsets some melbonites but sososo glad I never grew up with that game forced down my throat.
So you guys (wogs more so) had to to mix in to assimulate and feel part of the crowd following alf, far more than I feel it was up here re nrl imo.
Sure here in Syd nrl was huge but I just don't find it as toxic overall but for the big tuff guy persona it prevailed compared to sprouking best game in the world as they do down south whereas ARU would crap on its the game played in heaven.
I went to both a catholic in my young years and a Gov HS later years.
Both had NRL and sochka thankfully.
School teams were allowed in grass roots comps, school you competed in the Tasman Cup for eg. in the '70's.
I grew up on the north side of Syd, very very anglo back then but socha was very strong at grass roots despite the huge dominance of league/union back then for you never heard much of alf barring the GF and I do recall some Vic vs SA games now and then like a SOO before the other States joined the Vic comp........

I love still going to the APIA/United games and lower level NPL games but do feel so sad how they had been left out to fend for themsleves for survival and ostricised even by the younger football gens who can only rely what wiki or social media report but they are still there !
Why many 2nd/3rd gens arn't following is a massive loss but being your older gens Comp has been relegated to no mans land (last 17yrs) kids like to follow top flight like most of us.
Thats normal.
The blame isn't just on Lowy (though he has caused the worst for the game itself below AL) but also the past ignorant NSL Clubs who knew no better for the big picture due to so many barriers they we're up against and admins pre and post Lowy.
The aussie public have been influenced wrongly for decades - football has kept going through a "whirlpool" type of existance here.
Lowy divided us genuine football followers of the past banking on new supporters, our game doesn't work that way unless your the size of Merica/money and Franchise works there like their other sports, we're NOT Merica.
Most support and passion starts from the bottom up and you climb the ladder, follow your kid who then gets to play YL to Snrs, your extended family follow, not every game but they follow, it then brings together like minded people and follow top grades then go to Roo games.
NSD can't come soon enough, that little bit of ethnic might just be enough spark to bring back some ol timers let alone some of their nephews/niece's/gran kids etc might re visit the game + a % of the local football fraternity........

Overall just my take from the cheap seats.

this + the death of the NSL and rise of the poorly structured anti-ethnic AL 

Some massive mistakes have plagued Football in Australia for maybe 70 years..

If I was to identify a single key reason it is a lack of respect for Australian professional Football...

The lack of respect is over some key areas, first is the persevered quality .... we have never or hardly ever valued our leagues in whatever form... always Europe,, South America was better ..... the second was the miss read of mainstream Australia... however successful the NSL was or could have been was never ever then and now be accepted by the broader Australian community or say mainstream...

Before anything can work for Football to reach its true potential Football needs to EARN, COMMAND respect not DEMAND respect because its the world game....

Getting respect for Australian Professional Football is way more complex than most think and the answer is not P & R as no Football team at a professional level plays in a competition that enjoys mainstream respect.

IMO the answer as was shown by Nick Tana of Perth Glory NSL fame who showed the way ... 

The answer is with the player base and grass roots teams that play in parks on the weekend... at best maybe 15% watch on screens and even less attend games... the answer has always been here... but alas its the area few if any work on if fact SFA is done in general....

Until we get the broader player base to respect Australia Professional Football we will only make changes at the margins...

Some good points MIDDY that I like to expand my pov....
As I said in my post there are soso many mistakes that plague us agreed.

Respect ? spot on very much agreed and thats the trillion $ question amongst the past invested and to date goign down to grass roots where it begins.
A closed league WON"T gain the respect from those below anywhere near what they hope for, be it pre APL to current.
Forgetting the ol NSL didn't have a true P/R as well BUT thats whats needed in todays game period despite you saying not.
Earn the respect - climb the ladder, thats football's DNA sorry, NSD needs to spark the game and its grass roots supporters who are not invested enough following APL football because it is not respected as well might I add and never will be by the countless true invested football supporters at grass roots and NPL incl the Eurosnob.
A vibrant future comp relating to the "locals" can later entice the broader community once its settled in providing true rivalries and robust games.
Lets see what a proper true football system can achieve before all you blokes keep saying no it won't work for right now following a MLS is not the answer last 17yrs proves it with all the money thrown at it might I add.
Imagine all that money was spent of grass roots, NPL/NSD what could have become last 17yrs ? as long as the FA really finally got their shit together banged all State Fed heads to work together.
Lower fees, have kits supplied as per how the rugbys/alf have done for decades, improve coaching across all levels/trial formats/more games at YL levels you could go on and on as many have quoted over the years the wrongs within our game.
One wonders.

Structural delegitimisation.

It takes some effort to tear down institutions and then get those people of those institutions to turn on their own institutions and blame them for some sort of failure. 

Now just replace institutions with ethnic clubs.

Very much this TSF. The most vocal opposition to any possibility of 'effnik sokkah" clubs ever being allowed to thrive is from our very own past supporters. Self loathing wogs who got their fill of "effnik hooliganism" and "sokkah shame" in the 80s and 90s and now have jumped on board with plastic franchises because its "family friendly" and "mainstream".
I don't blame the new dawn who only discovered the game after Aloisi's penalty in 2005. They hate the old NSL because Lowy and their new Greek, Italian and Croatian mates told them too. I forgive them because they don't know any better.

Prideful arrogant pissant Wogs that like other people's violent crimes but can't fight their way out of a paperbag are the wogs to be loathed. If you got hit with that miscile from the dickhead that threw one last week, you would run straight to the cops you oily crunt.
CHAMPIONS are WESTERN UTD, respect.
BTW, any update on cocktail boy that threw the projectile? 10 years prison thanks and quick!
Fa/Apl must stop sweeping these crimes under the carpet. Chase it up,. c'mon Townsend, Johnson.

The blame game!!!

I've followed the game since the 1970s world cup & no-one hates the NSL, they had their run & failed, the were happy with their little Greek, Italian, Croatian competition in Australia, this had little appeal outside of these communities.

I think Midfielder & L.F.C. highlights a lot of the issues in this country, too many agenda driven people, too many looking after their shop instead of football on the whole. The greatest footballers in the world would not afford the fees to play in this country.

Spot on - good to see a common sense true full correct answer
Well done

Your a pleasant poster. "oily crunt"? wow. What missile are you talking about btw ? Who is cocktail boy and what happened? Another teenage plastic dirtbag tried his hand at "effnik hooliganism" again?

Yes Robbo, we've established that you "followed the game" in Australia yet didn't support the local competition for 35 years!!!!!!!! 
I guess you are right, too many agendas at the end of the day.
As for your point about football being unaffordable these days I couldn't agree more.... Its disgusting how expensive it became for kids to play at a decent level after Lowy established the plastic pay to play system. The price of ethnic cleansing I suppose eh?

70+ years on, and despite franchises failing left right and centre, these "effnik clubs" are still around .... HAHAHAHA it is so satisfying to see how much our very existence annoys those who see multiculturalism as an evil threat to the "Make Australia Great Again" movement.... Keep hating gents, our clubs will be around for another 70 years, hope you can say the same about your franchises.....

I'm not sure where the revision is.  The NSL was instigated by Frank Lowy (Hakoah) and Alex Pongrass (St George Budapest) (the Victorian federation didn't want their clubs involved because it would lower the importance of their leagues but they got talked around to supporting it) and John Howard prevailed on Frank Lowy to head up the new board despite Lowy having refused the role.

Yet again you twist it. I supported the local competition, I just didn't support a team in the Top tier (NSL).
Just like we are now in the 17th year of the A-League & you have not supported the local competition in Australia for the last 17 years & go out of your way to call it plastic & new dawn. Great way to help improve football in this country.
The only hate I see is all yours on the A-League, I never hated the NSL, it was just a shame that that those charge did not want it more than just an 'ETHNIC' football competition.

You are really struggling here, just words coming out but saying absolutely nothing.

I've mentioned WU in a positive light at times in the past. Many see them being a 'plastic club.' Any 'effnik' that doesn't mind new teams are self loathing wogs it looks like. So I took it as me being included in your earlier post.
Anyway in my case, I have an ex-Nsl team. I don't necessarily have an A League infact. I want a NSD with eventual pro/rel like all the other former Nsl people, although, It always falls on deaf ears.
It may not happen in 2023-24.

Clearly ..... maybe I should start a thread titled "what caused the decline of the plastic teams?" Its a lot more valid and could drive some better conversations?

OK Ill take your word on the sequence of events I guess.... 

So you not following a club in the national tier in Australia for 35 years  = GOOD FOR FOOTBALL
Me following a club in the national tier for 27 YEARS and then following that same club (which is still alive and well but locked behind a wall of racist hatred by the new dawn) for another 18 years but not following a club in the plastic national tier = NOT DOING ANYTHING TO IMPROVE FOOTBALL IN THIS COUNTRY.
No worries Robbo, whatever gets you through the night mate.

Like I said, I dont blame you for the propaganda you spew out.
"The Effniks are bad and they want to keep all of you out. lets get rid of them" ....
... Thats the line Lowy used to get all of you on board and you all fell for it, hook, line and sinker.

There is a massive difference between "doesn't mind new teams" and actively working against their old original teams. If you can't tell the difference then .... if the shoe fits I suppose.

There are numerous staggering examples of the decline of the ethnic teams, too many to mention here but
The number of ethnic teams that are sadly folded around the country again too many to mention here but some from Sydney some examples: Juventus, Prague, Julia, Concordia, Budapest, Yugal…
The steady  decline in attendances from the 1960s to the 2000s
The large number of ethnic teams that existed in the NSL and again only 5 survived of which 4 had poor attendances…

Again the main reason is the next generation of the European communities  didn’t take up the love of the game.

if they had, football would be the leading sport in this country 

You can add Polonia and Melita to that list.Also the second and third generation of European ( including the British) communities became Eurosnobs ,preferring to watch Italian,German ,Spanish and English teams when these games became more available on FTA and later Foxtel and Optus.Even if they played football themselves they shunned the NPL and now the A League as inferior products. 

Hang on re the eurosnob.
Why can't we be.
I couldn't wait to watch FACup Finals back in the 70's.
The Big Match with Brian Moore.
Match of The Day with Jimmy Hill.
Mate if they were available as much as todays mediums I'd be watching just as much back then and sure wouldn't be alone.
Plus go play our games, watch our local games.
I love football be it ours/NPL and abroad - the divide has caused this us against them.
Might I add my 2 playing adult sons, since kids I took them to both, AL/NPL games.
My only influence is playing and loving football, they haven't gravitated to AL barring derbies, they don't rate it much but 1 likes the feel of the NPL.
They are eurosnobs, they like P/R thats football to them.

I feel part of the decline was that the Club infighting/ASF/NSL supporters/people we're getting sick of it.
Crowd behaviour etcetc......

The shunning of ol soccer by new football as ONeill quoted put a good dagger into the locals might I add.
You tell me be it any sport - when your team/club are wiped off and struggling to make a buck, small crowds,struggle to get any kind of exposure what it once had and the changes in society what do you think most humans do ? they do something else barring the die hards.

See the only hate I see is spewing from your mouth.
I got off this 'Effniks' thing in the 80s, 40 years ago. We all Aussies & proud of our heritage.

I, personally, blame everybody else.

You are correct. I have a friend who is a Liverpool supporter like you, we both started following our team in England in the 70s, my team Derby won 2 premierships.
Since those days it's not pleasant, we now in the 3rd tier, I heard we got 32K to a 3rd tier game, but I have lots interest, cannot name 1 player & only knew Lampard & Rooney had coached them in the last few years due to their history.
Whereas my friend is avid fan, gets up all hours of the night to watch Liverpool & was totally devastated when they lost to RM in champions league final, I felt nothing when Derby got relegated to 3rd tier.
I get my top tier football fix by following Ronaldo around, without much affiliation with the club, but loved it during the Messi v Ronaldo days in La Liga. The best football I have ever seen.