BA BOOM !

Like I have mentioned, I sincerely hope that a NSD with eventual Pro/Rel comes in as I want my side to have a sporting chance to get in. 
I don't know that WU or McBulls are conspiring against any of say Hellas, Marconi, Prestons or Olympic.
The previous regime, Salary Cap - FFA voted them in and took their millions.
Take for instance. In another thread I had mentioned that I hope that WU get their training ground at least up and running asap, so the A League
for one, is taken more seriously and that is best for everyone.
I don't have an issue with you, only that I took what you expressed earlier as being a shot at me, inspite of any others tbh.

Yes many of the old state league clubs like Yugal, Prague etc folded granted but that was in the early 70s . I still dont get your insistence on applying the same logic to the NSL 
9 x clubs folded in the NSL era and guess what only one of them would be perceived by any stretch of the imagination as "effnik" - I hope you dont count the proto-franchise abortion that was Collingwood Warriors and Carlton SC as "effnik" teams?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Soccer_League
42 clubs played in the comp and only 9 are no no longer active clubs (although in the case of Newcastle and Parramatta thats debatable) ... 9 clubs didnt survive yet 33 are still around and they ALL HAD POOR ATTENDANCES and still do..... carry on talking about decline if "effniks" instead of  remarkable longevity if that makes you feel better but dont blame those left out in the cold for uncle Franks monstrosities.

So you think a council facilities ground with a chainlink fence and 500 seats is going to make the Aleague more appealing and be taken more seriously???? There have been 4 or 5 such grounds put up in Melbourne since WU won the bid 4 years ago what difference did that make?????

And yet YOU are the one racially vilifying clubs based on the ethnicity of their founders 70 years ago..... keep going Robbo, be proud of your heritage and at the same time prevent others from doing the same ... you know, like a decent human being would.

It will be a new facility with 5000 seats, although, then I heard Pelivanis say on FNR (by memory) an increase to 8000 seats. I'm curious what that would look like. Even Ross County in Scotland play in a 6000 seat Stadium. This training ground would be acceptable once its going in 2023-24, which is what is mooted.

The clubs caused it themselves.

Built by ethnics, for ethnics was the strength and ultimate weakness.

And in the process gave Australians its first full pro football league, attracted  orders of magnitude more crowds and TV viewers full time careers for thousands of Australian players, coaches, trainers, and around a billion dollars in TV money plus mainstream corporate sponsorships.

You gotta break some eggs to make an omelette, an Lowy sure did that.

Keep trying mate, be kind & others will be kind back.

He sure did, and he enjoyed cracking those fragile little "eggs" while doing so.
Such a pity then, for all of us, that the omelette he made tastes like shit and now, nobody wants to eat it.

There was a little bit of vindictriveness about how he went about it.  At the heart of it was as much about getting his revenge for being shunned by the NSL and Soccer Australia some 25 years earlier.
Probably not the very best foundation upon which to build something new.

Spot on 

The point again is in the final seasons of the NSL only 5 ethnic teams remained in the NSL. They dropped out because they couldn’t afford to compete in it…
of those 5 teams Syd & Melb Croatia, Marconi and Syd Olympic had dropped alarmingly to between 1 to 2,000. Well below their heyday in years gone by..

In the first NSL season 1977 11 out of the 14  teams were ethnic, over the years many more ethnic teams were added. Again and unfortunately just 5 remained.

As for Sir Frank Lowly he created a league in which Australian teams were representing Australian cities…

Saying that at the heart of Lowy's A-League and FFA  was revenge makes no sense.  There are a million things a billionaire could have done with his life other than seek petty  revenge against people who pretty much no-one else knew or cared about.   

And even if he did, so what?-Lowy was right.

And gave the chance to watch pro football for hundreds of thousands of fans with no connection to the ethnic teams of the past.

Exactly correct, it was a massive positive step for the game

Same old boring "effnik sokkah" arguments....... I'm out.
Ill leave you neophytes to enjoy the utopia of professionalism and massive mainstream success that uncle Frank brought you ......  hope your foreign franchises last as long as the scary effniks have.

can't deny that, as I said early days thats all they could do, they weren't accepted.
From my perspective a aussie born wog - forgetting attending football games I knew what I had to go through growing up through school and having to wonder why I wasn't getting selected in school teams let alone reps.
Therefore I understand the nsl wogs keeping to themselves those days much like I see the growth of asian teams/clubs doing the same at grass roots comps....they like to play together go figure......there is chinese 6aside comps being run by them if your nose is on the ground. (by the way I think good on them I'm not against it)
Point is without the wogs despite all the negatives people throw up we wouldn't have what we got in the first place without them.
For all the failures about the NSL it had foundations and breeding pathways and Frank killed it all.
You might say great but thats the prob and showing why AL/APL is struggling after the honeymoon, the massive positive step has run its course already, the countless real football supporters at grass roots are not voting with their family going to games.

I agree the NSL lack of change/direction imo rested more on the ASF/Arthur George's reign but its not just white/yellow like an omlette Enzo (yes you got that from Franks own quote) and being more open minded you'd agree........Football was always in a whirlpool due to countless barriers not the ethnics alone.
It was against everything "Australian" as much as I hate to say that.....

As for Frank, yep I do like that we have a Pro league/more money brought in/player contracts/more exposure BUT there is also countless wrongs beneath that new FA/JJ knows needs repair and working on thats proof in the pudding.
Its not just about the top shop front window, the game has its true tenticles below that has been neglected massively and thats where it all grows from in the first place.
Some of you really need to look further than whats in front of you.

Look Mono I respect your defence of ethnic based teams and how they were treated when the Aleague started.However the NSL was dying and something had to be done to keep professional football in Australia alive.I don't think Lowy had revenge in mind when he set up the new league-he was a businessman and he had the idea that a franchise system made sense as the ethnic and community based clubs( Perth Glory being the exception and it was run by a businessman Nick Tana) had lost the interest of  the general football loving public and their own supporters.

Now the franchise system is "plastic"  but having negotiated a OK( not great ) TV deal with Foxtel and regenerated interest he reinvigorated the code to a large extent.The success of the Socceroos in qualifying for the 2006 WC at the same time was serendipitous but also sparked interest in football.Certainly things have stagnated to an extent with the A League and people have suggested all sorts of remedies-a NSD,transfer fees,etc.All of these have some merit but the formation of a NSD and then possible  promotion/relegation up the track will not be easy and I don't have any answers.As a football follower I would love to see teams such as South Melbourne,Apia,Marconi and Melbourne Knights playing in the top tie of Australian football-I know you don't consider it to be the top tier but for many people it is so for better or worse.For too long football supporters in this country have divided.However I do know that many people who do attend or watch the A league have been NPL supporters in the past but feel that the A league for all its faults is the pinnacle of professional football in this country.Not all A League watchers are neophytes as you have suggested-I was watching the Sydney comp for many years before 1977 when the NSL started.At the time it was wonderful and such a progressive move for an Australian football code to go national.It was sad when it folded and I say that as a person who didn't actually follow any particular NSL team but was hugely interested in the game( my pre NSL team Prague had sadly died ).

As an adjunct to my rant I was listening to the morning session on Sydney ABC today and the presenter James Valentine( who I like very much) was talking to an ABC sports reporter and they were raving about the 40th anniversary of the  Sydney Swans and how farsighted and brave the then VFL was in moving a team out of Victoria and Rugby League was slow to follow and not as venturesome.I thought to myself these ignorant people don't even acknowledge football's pioneering efforts four years before.Again this shows how disrespected our code is and infighting and point scoring amongst us does not help
 

Bye ...

Bye.

Frank Lowy says ‘Hold my Beer’

Lmao yet another thread devolved into an ethnic vs franchise club fight.

That is just it , These are not franchises.
They are clubs created so all fans from a city/area can support a team.

I never heard the term when Perth Glory entered the NSL, they were held up as the perfect model and yet these clubs are franchises

Are the Brisbane Broncos, Newcastle Knights, Sydney Swans, GWS franchises ?

There could be 20 teams vying to get into the A League, all with different set ups. It is up to the League's Generals to choose the new teams for any expansion. Why blame the clubs? Blame the establishment for whom they choose. Also, ALeague being an insular comp has kept many feeling excluded therefore, it would be wise to open up the Top Tier Comp with a NSD with eventual pro/Rel.

I think it comes down to a few things, the lack of appetite to grow the game outside of a few nationalities and demographics is largely due to the game wanting to keep the game to themselves as opposed as growing the game to all forms of communities which Perth Glory did very well during the late 90s but once these communities started to integrate with the mainstream the NSL and Soccer Australia during stood still until it was too late to react.

Culturally there are factors, given how intrenched the rugby codes, AFL and cricket were and trying to fit into the culture of this country it made football not felt culturally acceptable especially when you are still with your local culture through football which the other codes didnt have or rarely had.
Wog ball was used quite alot during the 80s and 90s when I was growing up.

We also cannot underestimate the media here too, their white centric but most importantly anglo centric messaging through the news and the reporting and when they saw football as a threat to everyday Australia they put their nose on it and wanting to preserve the culture at all costs. (which you kind of get these days too especially with the fan violence stuff)

Also being isolated country geographically from the world but also being a racist country especially during that time when the Aus govt. had the white Australia policy probably influenced the cultural dislike to football which includes now but this time not through racist eyes but more the influence of other codes money and power they have through the media and govt.

Overall i think football is going through a different phase with that as well along with modern stereotypes such as the influence of social media and FIFA where the kids these days whom are probably more into football than ever before but they see the a-league as inferior product through the teams and players and its the same as the NBL where NBA is king for kids that want to play basketball.
And the media get this which is why the govt and media would fall for the Man United with an AFL ball but they wont look at the a-league if they tried because it doesnt get the clicks and views existing sporting codes and overseas football gets.

Football has suffered alot in their history here through different factors and often gets the short stick for relevance and respect within the Australian public, but there has been times when it has especially through the Socceroos and now Matildas and even in the a-league especially when it made the other codes worried with its use of the media outlets.
It does give me hope that it can turn it around because the foundation is there, but the game has to work alot harder than ever before not only to get the respect back but also get more support from govt. and media which is missing in all of this.

I just hope the game can work together, if thats one thing the game could do to turn it around its that become united and together! 
When is that NSD and Pro-Rel FA and APL???

P.S sorry for the long post, just my food for thought on this topic.

Lol that's exactly what modern franchises are - under licence of course.
A model hampered by short-term thinking team-wise and long-term limitaions league-wise, both of which we hare now witnessing simultaneously.

It's true that the concept of "club" has become a bit blurred in recent decades.
One thing is for sure - all those ethnic clubs were exactly that - "clubs" - owned by the members.

Using the Mariners as an example, in the recent sale of the "license", that's exactly what was for sale - the license.  Charlesworth personally owned the land and buildings, and that was NOT part of the sale.

In the case of the Melbourne Knights, they still own their land and buildings out in Sunshine - they are a club - the football team and football facilities are one and the same, they are indivisible.

But using the Mariners as an example again, football team and infrastructure are divisible - the license for the football team to participate in the comp can be sold separately to the related infrastructure, because an individual owns that infrastructure, the football team actually owns nothing.   The "members" own nothing.  In essence, there is no club.

Similarly, with Western United - it will not be the football team that owns whatever is getting built out at Tarneit.  The property developers who own the A-League license will own all of that.  Football team and facilities are divisible.

At any point, that license can be sold, and someone else can buy the license to put a team in the A-League, but the associated infrastructure will still be owned by the property developers.

Going back to the Melbourne Knights example, they exist as a football club, for the sole purpose of playing football.   The facilities can only be used for the purpose of serving their primary purpose as a football club.  Because there actually is a "club".

I think we should acknowledge that in football worldwide there are numerous ownership and operational models for football clubs and go back to a basic definition like:

football club

NOUN

• An organization of players, managers, owners, or members associated with a particular football team.

then we can forget the thought that one form is more legitimate than another and work on and discuss important issues.

The irony of all this is that within 15-20+ years of a N2D (and possibly a third, which IMHO will be needed further down the line) w/pro-rel to the A-League being introduced, all of this blame-game stuff will've been rightly consigned to the wastebasket of history. But as long as we keep seeing each other as 'the enemy'(instead of the AFL and dare I say institutional Anglo-Celtic Australia as a collective), we'll still be having this unsavoury chinwag when the sun finally burns out into oblivion..