Thanks Gallop.

I  am   not   sure    why    the   current   FA   gave   WU  &  Macarthur   the   licences .  Perhaps    they   were   more    concerned   at   the   time    about    the   next    broadcast    contract ,  rather  than   crowds ?

Wonder how many more expansion clubs we can manage before we are better off just promoting old nsl clubs

its a shame with all the expansion we didnt get at least one more melbourne victory type club. Wsw looked like they would get those crowds but farting around with stadiums means they haven’t been at the level they used to be

Macarthur and Western United are a bit like Hoffenheim and Leverkusen. Generally decent football and fairly well run yet people just find them a bit tacky and their home base isn't so interested either. 

Not so much Macarthur but Western United is just tacky as all fuck. They're a property development play. They market themselves as a property developer. Crowing that the logo resembles the roofs of housing they're building FFS. They have such a non committal name that you wouldn't see yourself following them if the club can't even associate itself with you. Sometimes I wonder if the 3,000 that show up to a game were sent up the wrong road by google maps or something.

I'm not saying the WU owners are stupid - the opposite really. They really know how to play the game with local government getting access to the land and they no doubt know how much value uplift they're sitting on. But maybe they're a bit too clever? Seems they're onto such a winner financially that the football can be an afterthought.

It’s cash and data driven. They have the revenue to support themselves. Seriously though how many clubs do you need playing out the same stadium? What point of difference are they making. If we think about WSW and Sydney there is a clear point of difference but what is the difference between WU from City? Go find a local ground work hard in the community and build, 3000 in a suburban ground is not a bad thing but AAMI park is just silly. 

I'm fine with Macarthur.
Western United should never have been allowed in, and South Melbourne was clearly the best bid of the lot at the time.

Five.

https://afl.fandom.com/wiki/Docklands_Stadium

Well yes and the owners who wanted to maximise their dividends from the highest bidders. 

To think the Fury got booted because their crowds were 5000-6000.

4000 in their last year.

It's disappointing that Canberra, Wollongong or even Tasmania weren't given a chance instead. 

At worst they should play in suitable stadium that would fit their fan base because either way its not sustainable for long term survival let alone growth, 30K stadium for that type of crowd that was on last night is embarrassing for our league.

The Fury should never have been booted out imho.

My memory of it was it came down to a measly $ 1 million shortfall.  Spread across the other 10 clubs that would be $100k each over 30 rounds $3,000 per club per round to keep them going

They tried to raise $1.5m from memory through a community based model but came up short.

Like you I think the other clubs and the FA should have kept them going. Brought a lot of colour into the comp. Not too mention teams from down south trying to play in 95% humidity.

Who misses north queensland fury?? i know i do

They were everyone's fav second team.

They actually brought something different to the league and had decent crowds compared to every other expansion team that has come in.

South Western Sydney is crowded over saturated football market having a new club there in the land of SU58,BWE, Marconi  and to some extent WSW putting a team there makes no Sense or cents 

Melbourne is one central sinkhole with not real geographical split like sydney or even a perth (yes if you were planning a new NSD competition having NoR/ SoR, Split in Perth makes absolute sense same goes for Tassie) so they already 4 teams that already a major presence in the football community adding a 5th one made no sense or cents 

the following teams should be in the comp now in my alt reality
Canberra United 
Gold Coast United (Palmer-less) 
Adelaide City 
North QLD fury

The Bulls inclusion looks to the future. 
WU... Stinks from top to bottom. 

Marconi, SU58 and BWE are in Fairfield which isn't part of Macarthur's target area.  The only notable club from the Macarthur/Liverpool region that the Bulls are attempting to represent is the 54 year old Macarthur Rams (previously Campbelltown Rams and Campbelltown Vikings) who for the most part have been a second and third tier football club.

An issue that the Bulls have is that Wanderers set themselves up as a team for the whole of Western Sydney and about 20% of Wanderers members (3000+) live in the Bulls target area.  Although some of Wanderers' members did move across to Macarthur most didn't and the result is that Wanderers and Macarthur split the current football attending market of around 6,000 50/50.

With Macarthur's target area population growing at around 20,000 pa and registered player numbers being 3.1% of population there is opportunity for good growth provided the club is managed well off the pitch and performs well on the pitch.


The constant expectation on here of better crowds puzzles me.  People don't come to games because we put a game on. People don't come to games because we think of a number that should attend etc..  They come because they are invited, welcomed and feel they belong.  Clubs need to be marketing their game day experience to get people to come to games and working that market needs to happen year in and year out or attendances will diminish.  Clubs need to cherish every fan that comes through the gate because once a fan is lost it is very difficult to win them back again.

The A-League had a few bad years because of the internal war between FFA and the clubs and that was followed by the 2 years+ of covid restrictions.  We will have lost some of the fans permanently, some may be wooed back into the fold but if we want to see growth we need to expand our vision to include non-football people as well as those for whom football is part of their life experience.

So    how    does    the   APL    get   more  "non - football  people"   to   go   to   games  ?

im sorry but Macathur are a disaster 

WU are a similar car crash but that mostly stems from not deciding on where they will be based. They should of been based in Geelong as most of Western Melbourne already support Melbourne Victory / City - you need demographics that are un-tapped when starting a club 

if WU change to Geelong United FC and based themselves down Geelong way they would probably have a decent following 

Macathur will never have a 'decent' following as no one cares about the club 

although ACT and TAS should of been given the nod a head of both these sides imo 

The A-League's decline can be pin-pointed to the time the FFA alienated active support in search of the mythical non-football "family-friendly, broad appeal" market.

 this article points out there are two factors that led to the A-League- under Frank Lowy's leadership- achieve unparalleled success for football in the country:

1. marquee players
2. active support.

I would add the Socceroos as the third pillar.

All this bullshit talk about P and R and South Melbourne et al being let in is just that, bullshit talk.

The responsibility to market the club to the people is the club's not the APL.  Potential fans need to see the human face of the club so whatever gets players and officials in amongst the people needs to be done and done often.

The APL's job is to manage the league, generate income, distribute it, and assist each club to generate income so they can operate professionally.  The APL should commission and fund all the big cost media advertising.

Before you can do any of that you need to define who this potential target market is.

So   clubs   should    be    doing    something    or   other  in   amongst    the   people ,  often . Ok .

And   the    APL   should   be   doing   the  "big   cost   media   advertising"  ,  including    targeting   "non-football   people" ?

literally no point 'targeting non football people' 

i have been pumped with NRL advertising my entire life i got no interest in attending a match - im 32 y.o and i doubt i ever will watch a match in the stadium 

you have 100s or 1000s of football fans who could not give a single fuck about the domestic game you need to win them over 

ill allude to this again we had 76k attend MU vs MVFC i dare say more would of attended if the MCC was allowed to sell its allocation and if the ticket were not a total rip off id say 70 percent of the ppl in that stadium had never been to a domestic game in the past 10 years - the AL has improved a lot but it needs to show people it is worth following 

straight out it needs P/R and community development pathways for players to 'connect' people to the game 

I   would   be   interested   in    hearing    Flytox's     response    to    that   ?

WU just go in on the $$$ paid. 

I wonder if the worry about South Melbourne getting in, would've been them getting bigger crowds than Melbourne City potentially. 

Would not have been a good look at all. 

Disappointing .. .

opposed to almost having no crowds....

WU looks bad and so does the Bulls i feel for the players as they are both filled with some decent players it must be 'disheartening' to have poor support 

it is why a 'salary cap' league doesnt work, as good players get picked up by big clubs play infront of big crowds and not as good players grind it out to prove they are worth signing at lower clubs.